HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-07-24 - Minutes -Council Member Adella Gray
Ward 1 Position 1
Council Member Sarah Marsh
Ward 1 Position 2
Council Member Mark Kinion
Ward 2 Position 1
Council Member Matthew Petty
Ward 2 Position 2
Mayor Lioneld Jordan
City Attorney Kit Williams
City Clerk Sondra E. Smith
City of Fayetteville Arkansas
City Council Special Meeting
July 24, 2018
City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
Page 1 of 34
Council Member Justin Tennant
Ward 3 Position 1
Council Member Sarah Bunch
Ward 3 Position 2
Council Member John La Tour
Ward 4 Position 1
Council Member Kyle Smith
Ward 4 Position 2
A special meeting of the Fayetteville City Council was held on July 24, 2018 at 5:30 p.m. in
Room 219 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
Mayor Jordan called the meeting to order.
PRESENT: Council Members Adella Gray, Sarah Marsh, Mark Kinion, Matthew Petty,
Justin Tennant, Sarah Bunch, John La Tour, Kyle Smith, Mayor Lioneld Jordan, City
Attorney Kit Williams, City Clerk Sondra Smith, Staff, Press, and Audience.
Pledge of Allegiance
Mayor's Announcements Proclamations and Reem-mitions: None
Cit
y Council Meeting Presentations Reports, and Discussion Items: None
Agenda Additions: None
Consent: None
Unfinished -Business:
Fayetteville Housing Authority's 2018 Annual Plan and Rolling Five -Year Plan: A resolution
to express the City Council's recommendations to Mayor Jordan concerning the Fayetteville
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Housing Authority's 2018 Annual Plan and Rolling Five -Year Plan. At the July 17, 2018 City Council
meeting this resolution was added as an agenda addition then tabled to the August 7, 2018 City Council
meeting. Mayor Lioneld Jordan called a Special City Council meeting for July 24, 2018 to hear this item.
It will be removed from the table on July 24, 2018.
Mayor Jordan: Over a year ago we talked about the process that the Fayetteville Housing
Authority had undergone and its planning for the maintenance of Willow Heights and possible
transition to Morgan Manor apartments. I objected to the process then and continue to receive
feedback that there's not been adequate involvement from affected residents and surrounding
community members.
I watched the Housing Authority July 9, 2018 meeting and witnessed the many people who came
to participate, who contacted me later saying they felt that they had been somewhat disrespected.
I continued to hear from many area residents and citizens that they do not believe the Morgan
Manor Project is in the best interests of those citizens in need of affordable housing. Having said
that, I want it clear tonight, I will never as the Mayor of this city jeopardize capital facilities funds
to be used to maintain public housing properties. In order to support the details of the plan, I will
continue to point out that the public, community, and City Council should be involved in
discussing the plan. That is the purpose of tonight's meeting.
On Thursday, city officials received the following statement from a representative of the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Little Rock field office.
"The Fayetteville Housing Authority (FHA) is not considered at risk losing their 2018 Capital
Funds. The funds will be released to the Housing Authority after the HUD Field Office reviews
the contents of the PHA Plan and receives the attached form (HUD -50077 -SL), Certification by
State or Local Office of PHA Consistency with the Consolidated Plan or State Consolidated
Plan.
Our office has been informed that Mayor Lioneld Jordan has called a Special City Council meeting
for Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 5:30 PM in Room 219 of the City Administration Building, to discuss
the Fayetteville Housing Authority's 2018 Annual Plan and Rolling Five -Year Plan.
I want to assure the City Council, public, and Fayetteville Housing Authority that I will not put
the HUD funding in any jeopardy. We have managed to get an extension until a week from today.
We have a week to take input and the Housing Authority Board has a meeting Thursday night.
City Attorney Kit Williams read the resolution.
Council Member Marsh stated with the growing housing crisis in the region, we need to ensure
we are making the best decisions possible and fully utilizing all resources available to address the
housing needs of our most vulnerable citizens and that those citizens are included in the decision-
making process. She stated citizens have asked for more public oversite of the Fayetteville Housing
Authority and want the opportunity to weigh in on the issue. She stated she read through the Five -
Year Plan submitted by the Fayetteville Housing Authority Board. She spoke about reading the
Five -Year Plans of the Fayetteville First Plan, Mobility Plan, Energy Action Plan, and Livability
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Improvements Plan. She stated there's good information in these plans, but the Housing Authority
plan does not convey information and it's difficult to ascertain what they are doing, who is doing
what, and what the actual plan is. She stated as a public government agency that deals with public
tax dollars, there's an accessibility issue. She spoke about the complexity in understanding the
proposed plan. She believes the voice of the community is being shut out.
She spoke about reviewing the Livability Improvement Plan for Willow Heights housing from the
University of Arkansas Communities Design Center. She stated it was a plan she could read and
understand.
She stated as we move forward, we need to set high standards for our Housing Authority and to
go further than meeting the basic needs. She stated this is an opportunity for Fayetteville to be
innovative and do better for the residents of the public housing projects, as well as the neighboring
community. She spoke about affordable housing being in crisis.
Her proposed changes to the resolution included:
A. Develop and implement a resident stakeholder engagement plan to increase community
education and participation in decision making.
B. Refine and further define the goals and objectives of the Fayetteville Housing Authority.
Those goals should be specific, measurable, achievable, results focused, and time bound.
The next three recommendations come from UACDC report of their recommended action steps.
C. Develop and implement an action plan to expand partnerships with public agencies and
non -profits. Especially in the areas of storm water and flooding.
D. Employ scenario planning to envision the full range of long term operational options and
the FHA shall hold that discussion with a qualified facilitator in a workshop format.
E. The commission of local developers/architect project team to pursue a low-income housing
tax credit application for revitalization of Willow Heights.
Council Member Tennant stated he's had a lot of contact with people on this and some think it
needs to be torn down and people need to be moved into a proper place. He stated he is for those
long-term goals if that's what is decided, but he wants to focus on what can be done right now to
make things better. He spoke about the Housing Authority doing the best they can with the
resources they have. He spoke about taking a tour of the housing and believes there are some things
that need to be changed.
Council Member Kinion stated they have the opportunity to look at the Annual Plan and Five -
Year Plan to look at the aspect of the plans to be most beneficial to handle the critical needs of
public housing. He stated in the Annual Plan for next year there's no mention of two of the most
critical properties that need attention, which are Willow Heights and Lewis Plaza. He stated they
might want to encourage discussion with immediate action because there are critical needs that
need to happen. He spoke about citizens feeling like their voices are being heard.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Council Member Smith spoke about reviewing documents and thanked Deniece Smiley for
assisting him on a facility tour. He thanked the Housing Authority Board for the work they do. He
stated he wants to focus on the residents of the facilities and the needs of the community. He stated
the plan leaves a lot of questions when dealing with a lot of forms. He stated he liked some of
Council Member Marsh's suggestions.
Council Member La Tour stated he read the plan and found it incomprehensible and redundant.
He stated he agreed with Council Member Marsh's evaluation of the plan, but he may not agree
with all her plans. He stated he wants people to be taken care of, but at the same time recognizing
there are limited resources available. He stated he wants to adopt a plan as a City Council that is
the best for the housing residents and Fayetteville.
Mayor Jordan: The main thing we are going to do tonight is make sure $281,000 is not held up
for some of the most vulnerable citizens we have. We aren't going to hold up the funding. We
have an extension for a week from today. I will have something signed this week.
Mayor Jordan gave the rules for public comment.
Sharon Davison, 904 East Rodgers Drive spoke about the historical area. She spoke about the
profits of developers.
Ezra Brashears, Oakland stated he has put in his application to live at the Highrise. He stated a
partnership is needed because the scope of the problem is tremendous and it is all about money.
He believes things can be worked out. He spoke about poverty levels and average incomes of
residents. He spoke briefly about HUD and RAD.
Peter Tonnessen, Ward 3: I read the plan and there were duplicate pages and I could not
understand it. Is this $281,000 federal money? What impact could there be on the taxpaying
citizens of Fayetteville based on what happens in these meetings?
City Attorney Kit Williams: It's federal money and I pay federal taxes. It's not city taxes.
Peter Tonnessen: If a project is built and three years from now it starts leaking, can there be a
liability for the citizen taxpayers of Fayetteville?
City Attorney Kit Williams: The property is owned by the Housing Authority, not the city. We
don't own any of those properties. It has always been their responsibility and they have operated
for many decades. They get their federal funding from HUD, rather than from the city or state.
Peter Tonnessen: Are there matching funds from the city?
City Attorney Kit Williams: Not that I am aware of.
Peter Tonnessen: I'm not hostile to anyone who has fallen on tough times. I'm concerned about
the impact on people who pay taxes in this city and that their money be spent wisely.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Alvin Davis, a homeless person stated there are 600 homeless people on a waiting list to get homes.
He spoke about lowering standards when someone has been homeless for three years because of
their lack of a credit score. He spoke about criminal records. He requested to know if anything was
in tonight's forum to help.
Mayor Jordan: We have the Community Development Block Grant.
Cassie Stanley, 10 South Willow, 30 C stated her ceiling is falling through, had two floods, and
been without water for 48 hours. She voiced her concerns about mold, asbestos, and bad water.
She wants everyone to quit attacking each other and come up with a plan to help residents now.
Council Member Kinion: Ms. Stanley, I hear you saying there are critical needs in the Annual
Plan and Five -Year Plan we must pay attention too. As we look at the plans, we don't see that
included and it's a concern. I'm sorry about your situation and hope we can handle that
immediately for your safety.
Nellie Ashley, 10 South Willow, 29 A spoke about infrastructure concerns of the property. She
stated she wants affordable housing and a solution.
Mayor Jordan: Do you prefer to live where you are or would you be alright living somewhere
else?
Nellie Ashley: I would like a clean and safe place. I would prefer to stay.
Sarah Champion, 10 South Willow 30 B stated where she lives has provided her with a safe place
to get to the next level in life. She spoke about the living conditions at Willow Heights.
Tina Waters, 10 South Willow 27 C spoke about the living conditions at Willow Heights and
wants something new built.
Matthew Ramsey, 93 South Duncan stated he was on the Town & Gown Advisory Committee.
He stated he sees issues when it comes to affordable housing, overzealous private development,
neighborhood relations, and community complaints not being taken seriously until they evolve
into public relations crisis. He stated he is speaking up for the exploited families at Willow Heights.
He spoke about his concerns with the Fayetteville Housing Authority Board and Executive
Director, Deniece Smiley. He stated the Fayetteville Housing Authority disregarded and silenced
the public and residents.
Dena Owens, 986 Bob Place stated she agrees with Council Member Marsh. She stated the FHA
goals are garbage and not transparent. She requested for the dissolution of the FHA Board.
Mayor Jordan: I want to remind everybody that we are working on a resolution as to whether
you support the Five -Year Plan or not. Stay on topic.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Robert Stafford, 123 South University Avenue stated he is against implementing the Five -Year
Plan as it is. He stated his appreciation for FHA Board Member, Melissa Terry. He stated the
Willow Heights and Lewis Plaza housing units are in a deep state of disrepair.
Angela Belford, Ward 4 spoke about the feelings of homelessness. She stated related to the Five -
Year Plan, there is an opportunity to increase funding through Housing Choice Vouchers and
requested City Council to do so.
Council Member Kinion: You are asking us to add to our resolution the request to have the
Housing Choice Vouchers and homelessness as a priority?
Angela Belford: That is correct.
Council Member Kinion: You have specific information on how this is implemented?
Angela Belford: Correct. We looked at doing it this year and it was determined the Housing
Authority didn't have the capacity now to be able to apply for that funding. We approached them
with city officials, as well as a private foundation to be able to help with the grant writing process.
Having vouchers today will be difficult, but we have to work all the pieces of the puzzle. If you
can specifically prioritize people experiencing homelessness as a portion of the vouchers we
receive, then yes, we do have some methodology for taking care of that.
Council Member Kinion: Thank you for bringing this to our attention to help our community
Council Member Petty: You brought forward an opportunity for grant writing?
Angela Belford: Yes, an opportunity for assistance in writing the grant.
Council Member Petty: What was the result of that offer?
Angela Belford: It was determined that the Housing Authority did not currently have staff
capacity to be able to manage additional vouchers.
Council Member Smith: In your experience with other programs like that, are there additional
ways to fund extended capacities so if they have those vouchers they could add a staff person to
manage them?
Angela Belford: I can't speak specifically to that. On our priority of continuum of care, increasing
the capacity moved higher to the top of our list. We have had great success on being able to
leverage private funding.
Council Member Smith: Your experience has been that the Northwest Arkansas community has
a philanthropic attitude willing to step up if a need were known?
Angela Belford: Perhaps, based on a Go Fund that funded $15,000 in less than ten days.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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Council Member La Tour: Ms. Belford, thank you for being such an effective advocate for the
homeless in our city and for bringing it to our attention. This needs to be added to Council Member
Marsh's list and include it in the Five -Year Plan that we adopt.
Angela Belford: I believe everybody in this equation is doing the best they can with the
information and experience they have.
Deniece Smiley, Fayetteville Housing Authority Executive Director stated she's been the Director
for four years and has tried to do everything she can to follow the orders of the Housing Authority
Board. She spoke about her reputation being attacked. She stated they have a housing choice
voucher program for homeless veterans. She stated they have 130 vouchers and realizes that
homelessness is a problem. She spoke about the waiting list for housing. She stated the consultant
who drew up the Five -Year Plan was in attendance at the meeting and could answer questions. She
stated the duplicate paperwork in the plan was for two programs and it has to be that way for
certifications for each plan. She stated since March 2017 that Council Member Marsh has been
trying to get rid of the Board of Commissioners. She read a letter that City Attorney Kit Williams
wrote about removal action of the FHA board. She stated that the FHA are doing their jobs and
the City Council is conspiring to remove the Board of Commissioners.
Evelyn Rio Stafford, 123 South University spoke about the Fayetteville Housing Authority's
Five -Year Plan. She stated it needs to be modified. She spoke about information not being easily
accessible to the public. She spoke about her contract concerns with the consultant developers in
the Morgan Manor and Willow Heights plan.
Jennifer Cole, 1 North School Street thanked citizens for raising funds for air conditioners at
Willow Heights. She stated there is a need for every penny to go to the upkeep of the three
developments.
Bill Reagan, 241 East 13th Street stated when public assets are all in one zip code, there is
discrimination. He stated he doesn't understand why the city would want to concentrate poverty
and sell off the most valuable asset, which is land. He stated he wants the FHA Director and board
to consider all options available because the Five -Year Plan is not good for Fayetteville.
Randy Hoeschen, Consultant stated he helped the Housing Authority with the Five -Year Plan
because that's the way HUD wants it and it's the template he had to use. He stated it could be
enhanced upon. He stated this is an update to the original Five -Year Plan, which was in 2015. He
stated he puts together the work items to get the money and it's not his selection, it is based on
what the Housing Authority tells him they want to do. He spoke about where the money is
allocated.
Council Member Smith requested information about the work flow and who prepares what.
Randy Hoeschen stated he was a certified planner. He stated he sat down with the Housing
Authority staff and met with the board. He stated they discussed the items and he came up with a
budget. He stated they had a resident meeting, sent him the comments and those are incorporated
in the plan. He spoke about the public hearing and HUD approval process.
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Council Member Smith: The plan has been described as a wish list and fluid. What sorts of
changes tend to get made from year to year?
Randy Hoeschen: It is very fluid and flexible. They can move any item in the five years around.
Council Member Smith: Since you are,keeping it fluid, you don't know what you are going to
get each year, so you keep using the same?
Randy Hoeschen: There was about a $90,000 increase from last year, which was huge. Everybody
got a lot more money. Next year could be less.
Council Member Smith: You are planning from year to year based on crossing your fingers that
it at least stays the same and deal with it as it comes.
Randy Hoeschen: This process happens every year. Next year they will know the exact amount
for 2019.
Council Member Smith: That number is based on what?
Randy Hoeschen: The number of units and age of units.
Council Member Smith: This whole plan seems somewhat predicated on the RAD conversion of
Willow Heights and Lewis Plaza. When those are converted, will that change the amount we plan
for?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes, because of Morgan Manor. They reduced the figure. They would've
gotten a lot more money, but there's 52 units that are no longer public housing. The same would
apply to Willow and Lewis if they went RAD.
Council Member Smith: Why doesn't that show up in the year to year numbers if we know that
following the plan the way it is, the RAD conversion happens and those drop off the public housing
side? Why are those numbers not reduced in the plan?
Randy Hoeschen: Because right now we don't have any idea what those figures would be. There
is no way to calculate what the reduction is going to be. There is a whole lot of factors. It's a HUD
formula. It's hard to plan because no firm decision has been made on what to do with Willow and
Lewis.
Council Member Smith: Can you describe the improvements included in the properties?
Randy Hoeschen: At Willow Heights, we added sewer line improvements in 2018 and HVAC in
the second or third year. We didn't address Lewis specifically. We can always go back and add
HVAC to Lewis. We've got general categories such as site improvements that can be done
anywhere.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Council Member Kinion: Having served on the Housing Authority, I know how fluid it is and
unpredictable from year to year. I don't see the improvement of Willow Heights in this plan.
Randy Hoeschen: Maybe you have an older copy because it is in 2018.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Is there a contract to sell Willow Heights? I haven't seen a contract.
Randy Hoeschen: There is a contract. I haven't seen it or been involved with that.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Would the fact that there is a contract to sell Willow Heights not
have some effect on availability of HUD funds to improve a project that is just about to get sold?
Randy Hoeschen: Not necessarily. You can't out right sell it to somebody, even though there is a
contract. You have to apply to the Special Application Center in Chicago for permission. It takes
months to get that approval. Upon approval, you go out for competitive purchase bids. It's going
to be a couple of years.
City Attorney Kit Williams: There are supposed to be competitive purchase bids?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Then how could there already be a contract to sell?
Randy Hoeschen: I don't know. I haven't been involved. I don't know if it is legal with HUD or
not.
Don Marr, Chief of Staff: In the plan, it's fluid between moving something from a future year to
a current year. How does it handle items that were not listed within the Five -Year Plan period?
Randy Hoeschen: You have to do a revision to the plan, which requires another resident
consultation and public hearing. It's about another 45 -day process.
Don Marr: The fluidness of this plan is only allowed within the items currently listed within the
plan?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes.
Council Member Marsh: In the City of Fayetteville's Consolidated Plan, where it describes the
restoration and revitalization needs for public housing units, I don't see any mention of interior
improvements to Willow Heights or Lewis Plaza. Why are we paying $40,000 in consultant costs
if the only thing in the budget is swapping out ranges and refrigerators at $14,000.
Randy Hoeschen: There is the RAD conversion. You have consultants to do studies, salary
comparability studies, design of an architect and engineer for the kitchen renovations or sewer line
replacements.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
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Council Member Marsh: As I go through the plan to 2022, we are spending far more on
consultant cost than we are on capital improvements or even the operating cost allocated in the
budget. There is a disproportion allocation of funds to consultants as to real improvements that
could be benefiting these people. You stated you included public comments in the proposal, but I
see that there was no public comment on this Five -Year Plan. Is that correct?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes. Nobody showed up for the public hearing.
Council Member Smith: The RAD consultant is $24,000 a year. The consultant fees on here
range between $30,000 to $60,000. It jumps from a little under 11% in 2020 to over 21% of the
budget in 2021. What accounts for the widely varying numbers?
Randy Hoeschen: Those are arbitrary figures that could be reduced. This is a rolling five year.
Deconcentration from HUD's viewpoint is looking at all three of your public housing
developments incomes. If there's a 15% variance up or down, then they consider that to be
unacceptable and it has to be addressed.
Council Member Smith: Are you saying concentrations of poverty are only calculated within the
FHA owned properties?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes, from HUD's viewpoint.
Council Member Smith: If you are 100% now and you move four properties on to one, you are
still at 100% and haven't had that 15% variance?
Randy Hoeschen: That is a planning question. HUD wants it spread out evenly.
Council Member Smith: As you RAD convert properties and take them off the public housing
roll and move them into Section 8, how does that change the calculation by HUD standards?
Randy Hoeschen: If Willow went RAD and you had Lewis and Hillcrest only, you would take
the average between those two and compare.
Council Member Smith: You would no longer have to count the low-income people you've
moved off public housing?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes. RAD is out of public housing.
Council Member Smith: We are looking to get out of the business of concentration of poverty
altogether by changing where they are on the paperwork?
Randy Hoeschen: I'm not following that question.
Council Member Smith: If you take them off the public housing income and put them on the
Section 8 vouchers in the same property, you haven't moved people around any, but you've
changed your total number of heads you are dividing by.
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Randy Hoeschen: I'm not a RAD person. I understand your concerns about putting people all in
one area, but that is beyond what I'm doing with this.
Council Member Smith: Maybe that is the HUD standard. I'm going to double check that because
it isn't Fayetteville standards.
Council Member Kinion: Morgan Manor is no longer counted because it is RAD converted. We
could put everyone down there and it doesn't count into the concentration equation. That is
working around the meaning of concentration of poverty.
Mayor Jordan: If we move everybody that's in poverty down to Morgan Manor, they're no longer
counted as poverty?
Randy Hoeschen: In HUD's public housing view.
Don Marr: Mayor, this is one of the reasons why the Housing Authority plan is evaluated against
the city's overall comprehensive plan. Your comprehensive plan talks about having available,
attainable, and affordable housing in all quadrants of the city. These are calculations in this
application that HUD is going to use for their definition, but the check is, how it matches when the
Mayor, city or state official signs off to the overall comprehensive plans of either the state or in
this case, the municipality.
Council Member La Tour spoke in opposition of using consultants. He spoke about air
conditioners being installed in a couple of years as unacceptable. He spoke about the immediacy
of need. He stated he likes the idea of RAD and doesn't know why public housing is needed. He
spoke about letting private developers build houses and let the government subsidize people who
can't afford it. He stated the private owners of apartment houses would have strong economic
incentives to keep them in fine working order.
Randy Hoeschen stated the items could be moved around in the plan. He stated he was not against
RAD. He stated the units are very old and aren't going to last forever.
Council Member La Tour: With RAD we don't need a Fayetteville Housing Authority. We take
that power and diffuse it to the private market place. Everybody benefits. The people who live in
public housing get higher quality housing.
Randy Hoeschen: That is a consideration for the Housing Authority and its board. I'm just
following their direction. The plan can be changed. If the HVAC needs moved up to 2018, it will
be.
Mayor Jordan: The plan that was submitted and that I am supposed to sign off on, that money
could be moved to do air conditioning at Willow Heights?
Randy Hoeschen: Yes.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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Don Marr: As long as it is in the overall Five -Year Plan. It can't be added unless the plan is
amended.
Council Member La Tour: We have to serve people. If we have people living with no air
conditioning or substandard drinking water, we are failing.
Don Marr stated if things aren't itemized within the plan, they can't be moved around until
amended in the plan. He requested for Yolanda Fields to confirm that the plan printed for Council
was the latest plan received from the FHA.
Yolanda Fields, Community Resources Director confirmed it was the latest plan with signed
documents in it.
Don Marr stated a signed document is a requirement by the City Attorney and City Clerk offices
for it to be routed through the Legistar process.
Yolanda Fields stated correct. She stated that the plan itself did not change.
Council Member Smith: In year five, which is 2022, there's HVAC, six units at $33,000 after
four years of kitchen renovations throughout Hillcrest.
Don Marr: So that amount could be moved to an earlier year for that dollar amount.
Randy Hoeschen: Right.
A discussion followed how the dollar amount was allocated and the way it can be used at the
facilities. They also discussed how air conditioning could be changed to a different year if
requested.
Council Member Kinion: There has been private funding for air conditioning at Willow Heights.
The community stepped up to the plate. If we need to have mold removal and other improvements,
does that need to be in the plan as a line item?
Randy Hoeschen: It does because fees and cost includes testing for those items. Actual
remediation would be a separate line item.
Council Member Kinion: We've got to be sure those line items are included somewhere within
the next five years to move them from one year to another.
Randy Hoeschen: That can be done easily.
Mayor Jordan: It needs to get done because we have a deadline next Tuesday.
Randy Hoeschen stated it will be taken care of. He confirmed that Willow Heights air
conditioning was in the plan.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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Council Member Gray: Is this the plan that the FHA asked you to draw up?
Randy Hoeschen Yes.
Council Member Gray: Was mold mentioned?
Randy Hoeschen: No. There was mention of testing, not remediation of the mold. I can add all
that in before the Tuesday deadline.
Council Member Gray: What do we do about holes in the ceilings and leaking in the apartments?
Randy Hoeschen: That would have to be specifically addressed or taken care of with non -capital
improvement money, reserves that that Housing Authority would contribute. You can put money
into this operations line, which means putting it from this capital fund program into the Housing
Authority bank account. No ties to it at all. You could put up to 20% and that's $50,000 or more
that could go for things like that.
Don Marr: Is that a part of what Council has in front of them?
Randy Hoeschen: There is an operations line item and it's about a $1,000.
Council Member Smith: Do you have any idea how big the FHA reserves are?
Randy Hoeschen: I do not know.
Council Member Smith: To set the record straight, I was looking at the file we got last week. The
new one we received today does have Willow Heights air conditioners, 2020, listed at 30 units.
Randy Hoeschen: Thank you.
Mike Emery, Housing Authority Board Chairman stated the FHA Board was notified several
years ago that HUD wants to move the whole nation to RAD. He stated they had been working as
a board towards that. He stated more citizen engagement is needed and that all their meetings are
advertised in the same manner as City Council meetings are. He stated they have done the best that
they could and have had the best intentions possible. He stated ever since the sale was announced,
the FHA staff and board members have not been approached with help, but instead they have felt
attacked. He spoke about his life experiences of being a beneficiary in his childhood for low
income services and understands what the residents go through.
Council Member Marsh: A few years ago, you were informed that HUD wants to move to RAD?
Mike Emery: Yes.
Council Member Marsh: Where did that information come from?
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Mike Emery: It was in one of our meetings. I believe it was one of our consultants who had been
in touch with HUD.
Council Member Marsh: Can you describe the process of selecting the RAD consultants?
Mike Emery: I can't at this moment because it was so long ago. I can try to find that information
for you.
Council Member Marsh: I would appreciate that information. Can you describe the citizen
engagement process in your long-range planning efforts?
Mike Emery: Every meeting is advertised in the same manner as City Council meetings are. Every
tenant meeting is posted at all the facilities, knocking on doors, and in person.
Council Member Marsh: Until this latest incident, what was the average attendance of a FHA
meeting?
Mike Emery: We average maybe two or three people, depending on the topic.
Council Member Marsh: What date, time and where are your meetings usually held?
Mike Emery: Last Thursday of every month at 6:00 p.m. in Room 111 at City Hall.
Council Member Marsh: When was the public hearing held for the Five -Year Plan? What was
the date, time and location for that hearing?
Mike Emery: I don't have that date with me right now.
Deniece Smiley: It was held on June 28th at 3:30 p.m. It was advertised in the newspaper. We
posted all the notices.
Council Member Marsh: Where was the meeting held?
Deniece Smiley: At the FHA office.
Council Member Marsh: Is that at Hillcrest Towers?
Deniece Smiley: Yes.
Council Member Gray: Mike, you are in touch with various residents, often?
Mike Emery: At least one a day, I am speaking with.
Council Member Gray: They weren't making you aware of the mold, holes in the ceiling, and
the leaking?
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Mike Emery: They were. As protocol goes for tracking work orders and paper trail, I advised
them to call the office and report it to maintenance. Some do and some don't.
Council Member Gray: When you were looking at the plan and telling the consultant what to put
in the plan, how is it you didn't put anything in there about mold and other severe problems?
Mike Emery: The plan is fluid. It is my understanding that there is a line item we could use that
would cover those sorts of things.
Council Member Gray: It wasn't mentioned in the plan and the problems have been there a good
while.
Mike Emery: These buildings and housing authorities across the country have had these issues
for decades. They all should have been addressed earlier on, but they may have had financial
problems at that time. Our maintenance crews are doing everything they can to take care of issues.
As far as it being in the plan, I was under the assumption it would be covered in the operations line
item that we could increase.
Council Member Gray: From what I heard in the July meeting, it's hard to understand how I
could be thinking about taking care of these citizens and not have it in the plan.
Mike Emery: I am trying to do everything I can to best serve the residents. At the July meeting,
it was not a stellar performance. There is tension between the board members. It stems all the way
back to when the sale of Willow Heights and construction of Morgan Manor was announced.
Deniece Smiley: I have a list of consultants cost. One of the things we paid was Snyder
Environment for asbestos abatement. We paid $6,500 for two units. We are taking care of issues.
They may have not been mentioned in the plan, but a lot of this is paid through the operations
account. We are in the process of getting estimates. We are about to lose two more units at Lewis
Plaza because of moving foundation. These are the things we are addressing.
Council Member Gray: Black mold is terrible.
Deniece Smiley: We have not had any calls of black mold. We've heard people say they've had
lead poisoning and we have tested those properties. There is no lead according to the test. We are
getting ready to have Hillcrest Towers tested again because it is an elderly and disabled site. In the
past, Hud never required those units to be tested. We do everything HUD requires us to do. I have
contacted the state health department about the water. Due to the water break from last week, we
were told we have to postpone taking any water samples until the boil order was done and the line
was clear. We take complaints and concerns, seriously.
Council Member Gray: Regarding the water break, there had been leaks earlier. Is that correct?
Deniece Smiley: Yes. The week before we had fixed a water leak in one of the units.
Council Member Gray: I'm talking about in the pipe that broke.
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Deniece Smiley: Not in that pipe, but in the complex. At the time when this pump was repaired,
they had to use a jack hammer to remove the sidewalk. Nobody had ever looked at that pipe. When
the pipe broke it took two days of work, but we got it taken care of. I have invoices to show all of
the repairs I've had to do on water lines.
Mike Emery: That particular spot was located 14 feet down and underneath a storm drain.
Council Member Gray: There had never been any leaks in that area or on that line?
Mike Emery: It's my understanding.
Council Member Marsh: $6,500 was spent to have asbestos removed in two units. The board
intends to continue making these plans, with the operations budget?
Mike Emery: It can be included in the operations budget.
Council Member Marsh: In 2019 and 2020 I see $1,000 in the operations budget. In 2021 there
is $2,500. In 2022, there is $1,000. The consultant informed us we could put $50,000 in the
operations budget. We have a housing project in a crisis situation. How is this acceptable?
Deniece Smiley: Our operating budget is separate from our capital funds. The $1,000 you are
looking at is allocated from our capital funds. We have additional operating funds and reserves.
Those are monies we have to take care of emergencies like this.
Council Member Marsh: How much is currently in your reserve fund?
Deniece Smiley: About $900,000.
Council Member Marsh: You have $900,000 in reserves and you have people without air
conditioners?
Deniece Smiley: HUD requires us to have at least $600,000 that we can't touch because we have
to take care of contingencies. If for some reason HUD is not funded and the government shuts
down, we have to have that money available to continue to operate. As far as the air condition
situation, most of our residents at Willow Heights have air condition units. They may not be the
best and are ones they have purchased. When those buildings were constructed, HUD did not
require us to have central air because they did not feel it was a necessity. Through the Housing
Authorities Commission, nobody has ever addressed that.
Council Member Marsh: You still have $300,000 sitting there while we have units in crisis.
Deniece Smiley: HUD told me that I have to save monies to pay for the Hillcrest Towers
emergency grant. I have to add monies in addition to what they are going to give us. I emailed
HUD last Monday when the water break happened. I told them I can't continue to save this money
for the capital emergency grant for Hillcrest Towers when I have water issues. I told HUD I will
no longer hold that money for the emergency grant for Hillcrest Towers. If the water line breaks
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at Hillcrest Towers, I have to come up with money to fix that. The estimate is four million to fix
those issues.
Council Member Marsh: Have you spoken with the city about a cost share?
Deniece Smiley: No. When we applied for impact fees, the city said we didn't qualify for those.
We have not asked again.
Council Member Marsh: When was that?
Deniece Smiley: When we were trying to do the RAD conversion.
Council Member Marsh: In 2017, so this condition has been allowed to perpetuate.
Deniece Smiley: Because we were refused once, we didn't think you all would be receptive again.
Mike Emery: Based on conversations I've had with certain people, it was a valid concern.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Were you the Chairman when the sale of Willow Heights went
through?
Mike Emery: Yes.
City Attorney Kit Williams: What kind of sale is this? Is it an option to purchase in the future?
Mike Emery: It's a straight sale. We were under the impression from our HUD contact that a
formal public bidding process wasn't required.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Your consultant said it was required.
Mike Emery: At the time, we didn't have that information.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Do you feel it's a good business practice to not go out and have
competitive bidding when you have a major asset to be sold? Fayetteville is growing and land
values are going up.
Mike Emery: Based on hindsight and some of the reaction we got, I don't think it would have had
made a difference as far as public reaction to the sale. As far as a financial benefit, hindsight is
twenty-twenty to get more money out of it.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Do you feel like you have a contract right now that you can't get
out of?
Mike Emery: Yes, until I get more information on it.
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Council Member Smith requested Mr. Williams to describe the difference between a cost share
and impact fees.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Originally, I thought they would qualify for impact fees. I thought
it was low income housing and it was their project. I was wrong on both counts. The building that
was going to be built was going to be owned 99.99% by private entities and there was going to be
market rate units. Our impact fee ordinance is very clear that it must be low income housing by a
non-profit. I had to write them a letter saying we can't waive impact fees under our ordinance. We
looked at cost shares when it comes to the large-scale development that went through. They had
some major drainage issues, which is apparent, because we had drainage issues in Willow Bend.
We've heard about the problems that Morgan Manor has had through the years. They were looking
at potentially doing cost shares with the city for that or for the road. Cost shares were examined,
but I'm not sure what the final result was. It's not like because they didn't qualify for impact fees,
we wouldn't do a cost share. We have done that with private developers if it makes sense for the
city.
Council Member Smith: After that happened, was there any other attempt made or considered
for continuing to pursue impact fee exemptions?
Mike Emery: No.
City Attorney Kit Williams: They couldn't have because City Council would have had to change
the ordinance. It would have flown in the face of what we've done with our impact fees throughout
the entire time we have had them. I would've recommended against changing that. Our impact fee
advisors didn't even like it that we had that part in. It's supposed to be very restrictive and has
always been interpreted that way.
Council Member Smith: My impression was that there had been some further email conversation
about ways to find loopholes in that.
Council Member Marsh requested for Mr. Emery to speak about the decision to sell Willow
Heights, how the community was included in the long-range planning decision, how they went
about negotiating the best price for the asset, and determining it was no longer needed for corporate
purposes.
Mike Emery: It was never formally put up for sale. We were approached by an interested buyer
and discussed it with him. We didn't immediately jump on an offer. The board at the time, which
has changed in significant ways since then, decided to take the time to consider. All of our
discussions were in open meetings.
Council Member Marsh: What efforts did you make to engage the public and residents in the
long-range planning decision to sell and relocate residents?
Mike Emery: No more than what we do for any of our other meetings, which is exactly what the
City Council does on announcing their meetings.
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Council Member Marsh: How did you determine that property was no longer needed for
corporate purposes?
Mike Emery: We approached it as what it would take for us to take all the buildings down and
rebuild there. It includes finding housing for the residents that are there, paying for their move,
securing housing for the duration of the build, and paying for the move to come back. We
determined it was better to sell the property, use funds we got from that in conjunction with tax
credits, and to build on land we already own.
Council Member Marsh: What efforts did you take to ensure the Housing Authority received the
top dollar purchase price for the property?
Mike Emery: We did not jump on the first price offer, which was under one million dollars.
Council Member Marsh: This was with the same perspective buyer?
Mike Emery: Yes.
Council Member Marsh: What efforts did you make to solicit alternative bids in other buyers?
Mike Emery: We were under the impression that it wasn't a requirement for us. If that's incorrect,
I'm going to find out.
Council Member Marsh: I'm seeing a lot of, it wasn't required, so we didn't do it and it's not
my job.
Mike Emery: I have never said it was not my job.
Council Member Marsh: Your job is to advocate and provide the best service available for the
residents of the FHA. You are not doing these due diligence items that a normal person would do
to get maximum value for it. Just because HUD doesn't require it, we still have to do our best with
public assets.
Mike Emery: I agree that citizens require better than what HUD regulates.
Council Member Marsh: Who do you work for?
Mike Emery: I'm not paid a dime for anything I do for the Fayetteville Housing Authority. I am
a volunteer.
Council Member Kinion: You do everything with your agenda just like the City Council does?
Mike Emery: As far as announcing meetings.
Council Member Kinion: You don't have an agenda session where the agenda is discussed?
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Mike Emery: No. We don't have an agenda session. We put the agenda out as soon as possible.
There was a brief discussion about the advertisement of meetings for the FHA.
Council Member Bunch: This is a very challenging process. I appreciate that you are a volunteer.
I'm a real estate agent. I don't think it is appropriate to have an offer from only one person. The
city always gets multiple bids and goes through a process. I am sorry you feel that you've been
attacked as a volunteer.
Council Member Smith: When the first offer came in, did you get an appraisal to compare it
against?
Mike Emery: Yes, we had an appraisal. The offer price was under our appraisal and we countered.
Council Member Smith: Was it a standard appraisal as would normally be done? Were there any
special instructions? Was it a local appraiser?
Mike Emery: Yes, it was a local appraiser. There were no special HUD requirements on it.
Deniece Smiley: It might be listed on your consultants list. I believe it was one that the city has
used as well.
Council Member Smith: Did it include the value of the building as well as the land?
Deniece Smiley: I don't have the report with me.
Mike Emery: The whole board and staff have worked very hard to do what they can. The HUD
regulations are a jungle. We are overly cautious about violating some regulation and losing
funding.
City Attorney Kit Williams: The appraisal you provided was dated August 7, 2017. Had you not
already agreed to sell before that?
Mike Emery: That was correct. For HUD to approve going forward, an appraisal was required.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Was that before you made an agreement?
Deniece Smiley: It was after.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Do you know the approximate date of the sale? Was it in 2017?
Deniece Smiley: Yes.
City Attorney Kit Williams: The sale was before the appraisal, but then you got the appraisal
afterwards?
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Deniece Smiley: Yes.
Council Member Kinion: In the Community Development Block Grant plan, it says the public
housing agency was not designated as troubled. This sounds like troubled housing. What is
troubled?
Yolanda Fields: Troubled in the sense that HUD has not labeled the organization has having
challenges with meeting HUD requirements.
Council Member Kinion: Who works with HUD to get it classified as a troubled agency?
Yolanda Fields: HUD visits and monitors the locations.
Council Member Kinion: It is based on scoring?
Yolanda Fields: Yes.
Council Member Kinion: If there was a need for some improvements, because I know we spend
money on single residents to get improvements, would there be an opportunity to spend CDBG
money on a multifamily project?
Yolanda Fields: Yes.
Council Member Kinion: How could we move forward to help with public housing?
Yolanda Fields: Once the budget is completed for our internal programs, we can then set aside
funding for public services, which has a cap on it. Anything we have that is additional funding
beyond that point we can set aside for public facilities.
Council Member Kinion: As we move forward on amending this resolution, would it be
appropriate that we add to seek a partnership with CDBG to look at mutually beneficial funding?
Yolanda Fields: There is an application process for funding. We had our workshop today for next
year's funding. Individuals looking to apply for CDBG funding would had to been present at the
workshop. The application is due at the end of August and it's funding for 2019. We have not yet
received our funding for 2018.
Council Member Kinion: We've missed the deadline?
Yolanda Fields: Yes.
Council Member Kinion: In the future there is the possibility, unless things change?
Yolanda Fields: Yes. We have worked with and done several projects with the Housing Authority
in the past.
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Council Member Kinion: I know we have in the past, but I don't know why it has discontinued.
Yolanda Fields: We have our application process. All are welcome to apply, that are providing
services in the City of Fayetteville, for individuals that are low to moderate income. If their service
area is at least 51% low to moderate income, they can apply for funding.
Council Member Kinion: I've attended meetings at Little Rock and often you would see the
relationship between the Housing Authorities and CDBG as being very cooperative. I hope we can
encourage that.
Yolanda Fields: Absolutely.
Council Member Kinion: I know we can because we did when I was on the Housing Authority
Board.
Yolanda Fields: We have in the past.
Don Marr: What's the possibility of having an additional training class for someone who would
want to apply if we wanted the FHA to be eligible?
Yolanda Fields: Our meeting has not happened. We did our run through today. Our workshop
will take place Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 2:00 p.m. in Room 326.
Don Marr: For someone to be able to apply for funds for the future year, they must attend that
workshop?
Yolanda Fields: Yes.
Don Marr: If the FHA would like to attend to access their ability to be an applicant, that is an
option.
Yolanda Fields: Once those applications are submitted we do an initial review to make sure the
documentation meets all the requirements of the application. Those applications that meet the
criteria are moved to the prioritization committee. We then start funding until the money runs out.
Don Marr: Please give the dollar amounts you allocate from applicants.
Yolanda Fields: Last year we had $45,000 for public services and $180,000 for public facilities.
Council Member Kinion: Is there a nonprofit organization that is supporting Willow Heights?
Yolanda Fields: It's a task force.
There was a brief discussion about groups that could attend the workshop.
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Council Member Smith: I hope we will have this plan wrapped up and amended by your
Wednesday meeting. As you look at the plan, are there any concerns you have that would kick
them out of the running for any CDBG considerations?
Yolanda Fields: The challenge I see is funding for Willow Heights. There isn't a clear
determination if the property is going to belong to the Housing Authority or going to be sold. We
couldn't provide funding not knowing that answer.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Their agreed sale at this point to a private entity would be a problem
for funding?
Yolanda Fields: Absolutely, it would be a problem.
Don Marr: It would be a problem in the assessment of the prioritization committee because it
could not be a future property.
Yolanda Fields: It would not meet our criteria when we are looking at serving low to moderate
income population.
Council Member Kinion: Willow Heights is just one property. There are other properties. There
are opportunities to shift some line items from other properties where we see a need.
Yolanda Fields: Correct. We put in playground equipment over at Lewis Plaza, which was
$80,000. We did a renovation expansion to Head Start when it was over at Willow Heights and
put in playground equipment there too. There is a way to utilize funding for a project so it frees up
the Housing Authority funding for other projects.
Council Member Smith: All of this has been predicated on Willow Heights and the sale contract.
Are there any sale talks ongoing about Lewis Plaza?
Deniece Smiley: We've had offers, but we have not accepted any. We just rescinded CHAP for
RAD. At this point we are still public housing and have the same requirements under HUD.
Council Member Smith: Your CHAP rescinded and you are longer in the process of RAD
conversion at all?
Deniece Smiley: We are not, but we have the ability. When we wrote the letter for the emergency
grant we need to get for Hillcrest Towers for the four million dollars, HUD told us they would not
allow us to get the grant if we continued through the RAD process.
Council Member Smith: They have a similar problem as our CDBG would?
Deniece Smiley: Yes.
City Attorney Kit Williams: You could not get the grant if you didn't do what?
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Deniece Smiley: If we continued through the RAD process, we could not get the emergency grant.
We applied a year ago and we still haven't heard if we are going to get it.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Your Five -Year Plan shows a possible conversion of Lewis Plaza
to Rad, doesn't it?
Deniece Smiley: Yes. When we did the application, each one of our units was included in the
RAD application. We started with Morgan Manor and we were going to Hillcrest Towers, Willow
Heights, and then to Lewis Plaza. The letter says we can reapply at any time for CHAP.
City Attorney Kit Williams: If it's a problem to pursue RAD now, why would you need to put it
within your Five -Year Plan. In the future, you might put it back in. If it causes problems for CDBG
money as well as other money, why are you still pursuing that?
Deniece Smiley: I'm not the person to answer that. The board makes those decisions.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Why is the board still pursuing a RAD now, which seems to be
blocking other grant funds?
Mike Emery: A few years ago, we were told that HUD was wanting to move the entire nation
towards RAD.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Nothing you've heard tonight changes your mind, including the fact
you might be losing the opportunity to get grants that could help rehab some of these housing
units?
Mike Emery: No, I'm not saying that at all. There's been a ton of information and it's going to
take some time to process.
Council Member Marsh: Why are we trusting the advice of an unidentified consultant from many
years ago that we are supposed to be moving to RAD if HUD is refusing grants if we continue
down the RAD path?
Mike Emery: I'm fairly certain it is our current RAD consultant, but I don't want to say that until
I verify that information.
Council Member Marsh: The people who are making money off us converting to RAD are telling
you to convert to RAD. HUD is withholding funding for much needed improvements because we
are converting to RAD.
Mike Emery: I want to verify that is the actual case.
Deniece Smiley: Leon Moore used to be Chairman of the Housing Authority. He went to a HUD
national meeting where HUD presenters talked about the RAD conversion and how they were
moving towards going out of public housing. Every time we go to a conference or a training, HUD
reiterates that same thing. This is not something the consultant has said. If you don't have the
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money to repair or build, then residents can receive vouchers to move wherever they want to move.
HUD is moving out of public housing. This is a suggestion they made to us to solve this issue.
Vouchers were brought up as an option at a meeting. Our residents and a member of the public are
against it. We listened and have not pursued that. Our Five -Year Plan was drafted and delivered
to the city on June 10, 2018.
City Attorney Kit Williams: You are going to have another meeting on Thursday. You have an
opportunity to amend the plan a little and make changes.
Deniece Smiley: Yes.
Don Marr spoke about an appropriation act of 2012 that created the RAD conversion. He stated
it is a very popular program used across the country. He stated when it began, Congress had a
60,000 cap on the units that could be RAD converted. He stated it had been modified over the
years and is up to 225,000 units. He spoke about it being a successful program because it gave
opportunities for private investment with public funds. He stated it's a program, that unless it is
reauthorized by September 30, 2020 ends. He stated the movement for everything to go to that
would have to be done prior to 2020 for the goal to be met. He stated that the program can be
successful, but it does have impact on other funding requirements.
Council Member Marsh: My primary concern is how the decision was made and the process.
For 2021, a new office is in the budget at $146,000.
Deniece Smiley: We need a new office because we are running out of space and we have many
files. We don't have any privacy for our hearings and briefings. We discuss a lot of confidential
information. We looked at extending the back of our office, but we would have to cut trees down
and lose green space. We looked at putting it to the side, then we would be taking residents space.
We would like to have some security. People come into the office who are upset when their
assistance is terminated or about to be evicted. We welcome you to tour our office.
Ms. Smiley briefly discussed what it takes to run public housing properly and successfully. She
also spoke about the cost associated to relocate the elderly and disabled from Hillcrest Towers to
an apartment for repairs to be completed.
Council Member Bunch: How did you come up with an estimate of $146,000 for an office?
Deniece Smiley: We relied on Mr. Hoeschen, our consultant. They look at everything to run the
office.
Council Member Bunch: Did you get bids on it?
Deniece Smiley: No, we rely on our consultants. You all hire consultants and rely on their advice
as well.
Mike Emery: As far as the bid price goes on construction of an office, it would be when we got
closer to doing it.
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Council Member La Tour: Is your office air conditioned?
Deniece Smiley: Yes. We care for our residents. This is one of the reasons the board made the
decision to rebuild at Morgan Manor. They were going to have air conditioning.
Mike Emery: One of the reasons we haven't pursued the vouchers is because we have trouble
with landlords willing to take the vouchers we already have.
Quin Childress, 710 Lake Sequoyah spoke about his experience as a resident at Willow Heights
when he lived there as a child. He stated the concerns being addressed with the living conditions
have been occurring for 16 years.
Balandra, Ward 4 stated the most important voices are the residents. She urged the City Council
members to continue asking critical questions.
Olivia Trimble, Ward 1 stated residents at Willow Heights, Hilcrest Towers, and Lewis Plaza feel
disempowered. She stated residents are afraid to make their concerns known for fear of retaliation.
She spoke about the taskforce that was assembled by citizens to tackle pressing issues impacting
Willow Heights. She spoke in opposition of the current FHA Board.
Ms. Quinlan, Citizen stated there should be higher standards for public housing. She spoke about
the Five -Year Plan distribution of money. She stated she can't agree with staff comfort of an office
over resident safety. She spoke about environmental testing of the public housing units.
Council Member La Tour moved to allow extra time for citizen comment. Council Member
Marsh seconded the motion. Upon roll call the motion passed unanimously.
Ms. Quinlan, Citizen spoke about the sale of Willow Heights. She stated under HUD code section
970.19 requires fair market value as accessed by an independent appraisal. She stated the
independent appraisal is required prior to listing of the property for sale. She stated the contract
was negotiated between October and March 31, 2017, which was when the contract was signed.
She stated the contract is a three-year contingency on tax credits being received, which means no
capital improvements, money from HUD or CDBG funds could be used on the property until
March of 2020.
Mayor Jordan: The timeline is interesting.
Council Member Marsh: The timeline is very interesting for when the appraisal was paid.
According to the information the Director forwarded to us, the appraisal for Willow Heights was
done in August of 2017. The contract to sell was signed on March 31 st?
Ms. Quinlan: I confirm that. In the Fall of 2017 the Morgan Manor expansion was coming before
the Planning Commission and I was sitting on the board. I requested the HUD approval forms to
sell the property. There's a form number that has to be approved. HUD statutes require that HUD
has to make approval prior to any action being undertaken to dispose of property. I requested the
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form and was told that HUD was unaware of the sale, although we had been under contract to sell
for six months.
Council Member Marsh: The contract for sale was signed five months before the independent
appraisal was contracted?
Ms. Quinlan: That is correct.
Council Member Marsh: The proper notification to HUD was not given prior to any action being
made to sell the property?
Ms. Quinlan stated that was correct. She spoke about a letter being received from HUD in Little
Rock confirming they had received no notification of the sale of the property.
Council Member Kinion: Does this in anyway invalidate the contract?
City Attorney Kit Williams: I think you could make an argument that it was a contract entered
in violation of HUD regulations. I am not the attorney for the Housing Authority. They have their
own attorney and they have to assert that type of defense against a contract.
Council Member Kinion: Can the public assert that defense?
City Attorney Kit Williams: I do not think you have standing for that. There could be some ways
to attack it in the future. The proper place would be for the Housing Authority to recognize that
when they thought they entered into the contract, they didn't have the legal right to do it. Therefore,
their attempt to enter into the contract would be void as against public policy.
Melissa Terry, Housing Authority Board stated she requested a written legal opinion from FHA
attorney, Jim Crouch. She stated in a letter, Mr. Crouch wrote, "Thus in theory to back out of the
contract now would not be a breach of the contract." She stated he is talking about the HUD
condition of release and that a contract was made on the property prior to HUD releasing the
property, which is a bit out of order. She stated it's his legal opinion that it may be this condition
cannot be met and therefore the contract cannot be performed and is not enforceable.
City Attorney Kit Williams stated you have legal standing regardless and have his opinion that
in fact it is a void contract.
Melissa Terry spoke about the troubles inside the board of the organization. She stated there has
been a lot of talk about performative compliance and community engagement. She stated the space
between those two things is where transparency and public process lives. She stated she abstained
from voting for the Five -Year Plan because she found it be troublesome.
Council Member La Tour: Ms. Terry, we appreciate you serving on the FHA Board. Don't be
discouraged.
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Page 28 of 34
Mayor Jordan: At the Housing Authority meeting, you mentioned something about getting an
estimate for $80,000 for the units to buy them. That doesn't count installation. Is that correct?
Melissa Terry: Yes, air conditioners at Willow Heights. The community initiative fund is for
window units that are energy star rated. Those who do already have air conditioning, it's not the
quality we ourselves would expect. To do a proper energy efficient mini split installation, it is
$80,000.
Mayor Jordan: There was discussion on cash assets.
Melissa Terry: If we have $600,000 in operating funds and we also have $900,000 in reserves,
where do we see that reflected? Even if we are required to hold $600,000 of that in rainy day funds,
there's $300,000 and other money in the operating budget. It would be nice to see it spelled out
clearly to be able to work according to plan. These numbers are not in harmony with the narrative
that is inside the Five -Year Plan.
Mayor Jordan: $165,000 was discussed that night.
Melissa Terry: $165,000 is what our Executive Director said she is required to hold for the
emergency grant.
Kyra McCown, FHA Staff Member: $440,000 went to kitchens at Willow Heights, Lewis Plaza
and Morgan Manor. We put in new countertops, cabinets, and sinks. We did not upgrade at
Hillcrest Towers. We repair holes in the ceiling. Maintenance uses ozone machines when
somebody says they have black mold.
Molly Carmen, Ward 1 stated you don't have to see a conspiracy to see that the Five -Year Plan
needs changed.
Blake Sanders, Ward 1 stated there is no room for pride in public service.
Janet Gradge, Wedington Drive stated she has friends that live in public house and submitted a
letter to Mayor Jordan and City Council for them to read.
Council Member Petty spoke about the appointment process of the FHA board. He stated he
couldn't care less about intentions, he cares about results. He spoke about touring the Fort Smith
Housing Authority and other organizations in the state. He stated they all have been building
housing and taking better care of their residents than Fayetteville has. He stated HUD is not good
at what they do and it is because congress doesn't support them. He stated the FHA are incredibly
underfunded. He is inclined to be generous to the staff because of what they deal with and their
priority of taking care of the people in the units they are already managing. He believes the current
and past FHA Board have been content to follow the advice they've been given without
questioning it or seeking second opinions. He stated he is stunned at how the Willow Heights
contract was put together and it has to be voided. He stated more oversight will be done in the
future.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
Page 29 of 34
Council Member Smith stated intentions and competency are how we yield results. He stated he
appreciates the volunteer servants, but what has been occurring for the past year is willfully
negligent. He stated it's obvious to him that only one option was ever on the table and it's the
option where the consultant stands to profit from. He spoke about Fayetteville building public
housing in four separate locations. He spoke about deconcentrating of poverty. He wants the FHA
to clarify their measure on concentration of poverty and include concrete steps for achieving it. He
stated the entire Five -Year Plan seems to hinge on the demolition of Willow Heights. He stated
the updated budget represents the first nod to keeping it habitable and sanitary, but is concerned
the budget isn't sufficient. He stated City Council should recommend the references to RAD
conversion are removed from the plan until they have worked out the emergency funding issues.
Council Member Kinion stated he has a lot of care for the FHA and was a board member for
many years. He spoke about the history of Hillcrest Towers, the exterior of the structure, and the
renovation of the building. He stated he was on the Housing Authority Board when the RAD
conversion was established. He stated it was established for high density, inner city, multifamily
dwellings that were high crime, had a lot of inefficiencies that couldn't be handled by the local
community and it was a successful program. He stated there was a cap and a strict evaluation
throughout the years because consultants abused the programs. He spoke about his concerns when
dealing with consultants. He stated a budget is a vision statement of how to move forward and
establishes priorities. He thanked the community for the participation.
Council Member Petty stated there is danger in reacting a bit too strongly with actions. He stated
if the RAD conversion was off the table for the Housing Authority, it would be a mistake. He
stated the Rad conversion has a lot of merit because the cost to deliver a unit under a public -sector
regime are very high compared to the cost to construct and deliver a unit under most private -sector
regimes. He stated it has to do with how bureaucratic the HUD requirements are and what it takes
to meet those requirements compared to the standard building code requirements. He stated if
anybody had ever come to him in his 10 years on the Council and told him they needed CDBG
money for Willow Heights, Lewis Plaza, Hillcrest Towers or Morgan Manor, he would've been
talking to the Mayor, Don Marr, and Yolanda Fields about doing that. He stated there's a problem
with not being creative in funding partnerships. He stated the money is there, but people need to
come to them to work it out.
Council Member Smith stated RAD can be a good program, but it can also be abused. He stated
he's skeptical of a system that creates private profit by selling a profit that people can't afford at a
loss. He stated they can amend the Five -Year Plan, but believes they would be better off with a
hard reset to reevaluate the situation.
Council Member La Tour stated he's not familiar with the ends and outs of the RAD program as
promulgated by HUD, but the theory behind it, he likes. He doesn't like concentrated power in
public boards due to mistakes being made, whether intentional, accidental or negligent. He stated
if mistakes get made in a private market, the owners of the business get penalized. He spoke in
support of housing and school vouchers to create marketplace competition. He stated it could help
diffuse poverty in the city and create freedom of choice. He stated the Five -Year Plan needs
amended.
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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Page 30 of 34
Council Member Bunch stated she would be in support of an amended Five -Year Plan. She stated
it would give a good foundation to start from. She doesn't want to exclude RAD from the plan.
City Attorney Kit Williams: The RAD program is not the Section 8 vouchers. The Section 8
vouchers are what Council Member La Tour was speaking about, where any landlord will accept
them.
Don Marr: We all grew up in a very different privileged environment. Our ability to encourage
landlords in our community to take vouchers to allow that freedom is what you all can do as we
have dialogue with our builders and owners in the community. The challenge we have is that these
vouchers have cap limits. We are returning vouchers because we don't have landlords willing to
take them: We have a lot of programs in place to help residents. They sometimes can't get through
the screening backgrounds.
City Attorney Kit Williams: The RAD program is building or rehabilitating public housing and
turning it into a voucher building, but it's not Section 8 voucher. The problem with maintaining
the RAD conversion in this plan, when it includes demolition of Lewis Plaza and Willow Heights,
means the money you might get from HUD for grants to rehabilitate these facilities is very
unlikely. They don't want to rehabilitate a facility you are about to destroy. You might leave
enough of the RAD in for rehabilitation. We need to present stuff that is simple and straight
forward. I recommend getting out of the contract. I would eliminate the RAD conversion that
requires demolition. Even if you allow RAD conversion or something else that could disqualify
them for grants, then take it all out this year. The Housing Authority should work with and apply
for funds from the CDBG fund. Those are three things they can look at to make positive steps and
change the direction of deterioration we have been seeing in the public housing projects. Sarah,
everything you said is fine, but they're not really that much part of the plan. That's how they should
act, but we need to give them concrete things to look at and make decisions in two nights. I write
the resolution ahead of time rather than trying to write it at a meeting because it's difficult to get
everybody's thoughts together.
Don Marr: I recommend you adding that the budget priorities should be focused on core items to
improve living conditions and prioritize in the earlier years of the Five -Year Plan.
City Attorney Kit Williams: Budget priorities for necessary health, safety and maintenance of
existing facilities?
Don Marr: Yes.
Council Member Bunch stated she liked the possible revitalization that RAD allows. She stated
she doesn't like the aspect of tearing things down.
Council Member Smith: We had two deaths recently out at the homeless camps and both had
vouchers. They couldn't use them because they couldn't find someone that would accept the
vouchers. We need to make sure the Housing Authority maintains the autonomy to prioritize
homelessness. The waiting list is long. If you have somebody on a waiting list that's being
sheltered and you have the option to put somebody whose sleeping under the stars, it would be
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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appropriate to prioritize that first. If we can prevent demolition, that clears the cloud of
improvement monies.
City Attorney Kit Williams: None of us up here are experts. If you are keeping the option open
for the RAD program, not for demolition, but for rehabilitation, would the grants still be allowed
under HUD to apply for?
Randy Hoeschen: I believe they would if you are not acting on it and don't have a CHAP on one
of the developments. If the Housing Authority applies for RAD and gets a CHAP or they decide
not too, they would clarify that in a letter to HUD. They won't give them money if it's not in public
housing. If it is RAD, it's not public housing.
Council Member Smith: There are RAD conversion programs they could do while retaining the
property themselves? They could do their own RAD conversion, not through public housing, but
through other avenues?
Randy Hoeschen: When they convert to RAD, they have to improve the properties based on a
physical condition assessment. Whether that is through money they already have or through a loan.
Council Member Smith: A lot of what we have had problems with is the fancy financing deals.
Maybe there are ways to simplify that and make it a little more transparent.
Randy Hoeschen: Yes, you can do that. You can say you might consider RAD. This is done every
year, so if you'd rather just get it out of this year's plan, we can take it out totally.
City Attorney Kit Williams: That is the only way to get the other grants?
Randy Hoeschen: Right. If it is going to interfere with CDBG funding, you might take it out.
Council Member Smith: We are not adopting their plan for them. We are making
recommendations to the Mayor and he makes the final decision. City Council will be paying
attention to the outcome.
Council Member Marsh stated her appreciation for citizen support. She stated there's been a lot
of good recommendations for the Mayor. She spoke about more citizen and stakeholder
engagement being needed. She stated they need to be observing proper public process so decisions
are made in a transparent and easy to understand manner. She stated she wants to see a board
committed to innovative problem solving and building partnerships in the community. She spoke
about incentives to builders to accept a certain percentage of rental assistance vouchers. She spoke
about rental statistics. She stated there is a growing housing crisis in the community.
Council Member Kinion: The RAD situation in this budget is related to the demolition of
property and I don't want that to be an incentive. When looking at the improvement plan by the
Community Design Center, they point out in Willow Heights the reasons why we would not want
to destroy the property. They believe it is more affordable to redevelop than to destroy it. It's more
likely to get low income housing tax credit financing to redevelop the property. At least for a year,
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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I'd like to see RAD taken off the table so we can look at alternative resources of funding and get
the properties in a livable condition.
Council Member La Tour: The Housing Authority should not be holding meetings at 3:30 p.m.
We hold our City Council meetings at 5:30 p.m. when people are off work and have access to the
meetings.
City Attorney Kit Williams: I have listened to everyone. Council Member Marsh's comments
about how to operate are very good, but that isn't part of the Five -Year Plan. I have gotten it down
to four items. Prioritize homeless to obtain housing vouchers and including staff capacity if
needed. To handle the additional vouchers claimed by the Housing Authority, but this only works
if the housing vouchers will be used by landlords. Reduce consultant fees, prioritize budget for
necessary health and safety repairs, maintenance for existing facilities and the invalid land sale
contract for Willow Heights. Lastly, the RAD conversion plan for fiscal year 2018, especially
about the demolition of Willow Heights and Lewis Plaza.
A brief discussion followed about City Attorney Kit Williams recommendations.
Council Member Marsh: They are good action items that Kit stated. I encourage us to adopt the
recommendations identified in the U of A Community Design Centers Plan. To develop and
implement an action plan to expand partnerships with public agencies and nonprofits, especially
in the areas of storm water, flooding, and CDBG funding. Scenario planning to envision the full
range of long term operational options. The FHA shall hold the discussion with a qualified
facilitator in a workshop format. Commission a local developer or architect project team to pursue
a low-income housing tax credit application for revitalization of Willow Heights.
City Attorney Kit Williams requested for Council Member Marsh to send him a copy of the U
of A plan she described. He stated the fifth item could say, to adopt the recommendations of the
University of Arkansas Community Design Center for Willow Heights.
Council Member La Tour encouraged the FHA to apply for the CDBG funding.
City Attorney Kit Williams stated he would add the recommendation that the Housing Authority
should work with and apply for CDBG funding.
Don Marr: Staff advice to the Mayor is that it's critical he consider his signature and not lose any
of the funding from HUD for this capital program. The board hopefully will adopt these items
because they are the only entity that has the power to do so. If they don't, our advice is he still sign
the certification document to receive the funding and then a recommendation that the Council
would address the board. We do not recommend any loss of funding.
Mayor Jordan: Council, we have $281,000 on the line.
Council Member La Tour: Do we have the authority to replace the board?
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City Council Meeting Minutes
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City Attorney Kit Williams: The City Council by majority vote, if they determine the statutory
requirements of misconduct, neglect or inefficiency have been met after a 10 -day notice and an
opportunity for a hearing, does have the opportunity to replace a commission member.
Council Member La Tour: A disagreement about policy doesn't do it?
City Attorney Kit Williams No. The Supreme Court says you have to have substantial evidence
before they could be removed.
A brief discussion followed having a cooperative relationship with the board.
Mayor Jordan stated he agrees with a lot of the comments that have been made. He stated he's
currently working on an affordable regional housing plan. He stated he does not support RAD. He
doesn't believe Lewis Plaza and Willow Heights need to be torn down and relocate people in a
place they've never been before. He believes it concentrates poverty. He spoke about the Willow
Heights contract that was not approved in the right sequence of events. He stated there are plenty
of vouchers to go around, but there are not enough landlords taking them. He stated he doesn't
agree with the Five -Year Plan. He spoke about the risk of losing $281,000. He stated losing that
kind of money does not do anybody any good and he won't jeopardize it. He encouraged the
Housing Authority to take care of the people who need air conditioning. He stated he realizes they
have $281,000 to do the maintenance on three major properties and it will have to be dealt with in
the future. He stated change is occurring and it will be made better. He stated he would decide
after the FHA Board meeting.
Council Member Smith moved to approve the resolution as recommended. Council Member
Marsh seconded the motion. Upon roll call the resolution passed unanimously.
Resolution 157-18 as recorded in the office of the City Clerk
New Business: None
Announcements:
Don Marr, Chief of Staff: The City of Fayetteville will be beginning our 2040 plan update of our
city's master plan. Attainable housing is one of the goals. Information is on the website.
City Council Agenda Session Presentations: None
Cit -N., Council Tour: None
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City Council Meeting Minutes
July 24, 2018
Page 34 of 34
Ad'ournme t: 10:10 p.m.
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L' el Jor n, Ma or Sondra E. Smith, City Clerk Treasurer
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