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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-12-10 MinutesCity Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 1 of 18 Member Aldermen Mayor Dan Coody Ward 1 Position l — Brenda Thiel V10 Ward 2 Position 2 — Nancy Allen CityAttorney Kit Williams � 1 Ward 3 Position 2—Robert Ferrell Ward 4 Position 2 — Lioneld Jordan City Clerk Sondra Smith ARKANSAS City of Fayetteville Arkansas City Council Street Committee Meeting Minutes December 10, 2007 A meeting of the Fayetteville City Council Street Committee was held on December 10, 2007 at 4:30 p.m. in Room 111 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street, Fayetteville, Arkansas. MEMBERS PRESENT: Alderman Lioneld Jordan, Chair; Alderwoman Nancy Allen, Alderman Robert Ferrell MEMBERS ABSENT: Alderwoman Brenda Thiel OTHER ALDERMEN PRESENT: Alderman Kyle Cook STAFF PRESENT: Ron Petrie, Gary Dumas, Chris Brown, Terry Gulley, Tim Conklin, Leif Olson and Kit Williams 1. Call Meeting to Order Alderman Jordan called the meeting to order. 2. Approval of the minutes from the November 5, 2007 Street Committee meeting Alderman Allen moved to approve the minutes of the Street Committee meeting held on November 5, 2007. The motion was seconded by Alderman Ferrell and itpassed unanimously. 3. Discussion to determine the status of Elkins Road as a private drive or City street. Terry Gulley presented to the Committee aerial photographs and pictures of the current condition of Elkins Road. He stated that there is no record of right-of-way for the road but before 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 2 of 18 the road was annexed into the City limits Washington County performed maintenance on it. This maintenance consisted of blading the gravel road a couple of times a year with a road grader Kit Williams pointed out that the property owner is currently out of town and could not present for the meeting. Alderman Ferrell moved that this item be tabled until the next Street Committee meeting. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 4. Discussion of Resolution No. 153-07 entitled, Expressing the City of Fayetteville's intent to enact road impact fees that was passed by the City Council on Aueust 23, 2007 Tim Conklin said this item created many questions for staff, elected officials and the public. We had a lot of discussion about whether a developer building in a green field situation with a sub- standard road which is on the Master Street Plan should have reduced fees or get credit or not be required to build the road. He said there was a lot of discussion about this before April 10. He said what he would like to do this evening is to find out from the Committee what direction they would like staff to focus on. He said staff could then bring back some ideas to the Committee of how other cities have implemented a different impact fee methodology. He said the bottom line is that the May 2006 Road Impact Fee study that the City adopted would have to be used as the methodology and we would have to work from there to adjust the fees down or up. He said the election fees were not the maximum fees so there is some possible room in there to see how this would work. He said the bottom line is that we would want to make sure that in the end, after choosing from the list of options that we are actually benefiting from the road impact fee. He said staff would want to do an analysis on this. Alderman Cook asked City Attorney Kit Williams if he sees any items on the list that legally we shouldn't be discussing or if there is anything on there that he feels in Arkansas law would be RMERX INA Kit Williams said he does have some concerns. He said normally once the impact fee study is done it kind of puts the top in and you can't go above that. However he thinks you can probably go below it. He mentioned that we have an affordable housing exemption in all of our impact fee ordinances. However we have none of the rest of this. It concerns him that we don't take any of these things into account for Police and Fire impact fees but we are thinking about taking them into account for a road impact fee. He said that makes it a little bit more difficult for him to argue for if one of the other fees is challenged. Unless the Council changes all the fees, the fees are going to be assessed differently. The road impact fee for an infill project downtown will be assessed at maybe 50%, yet the Police and Fire fees are going to be assessed at a full 100%. He said the inconsistencies between the various ordinances enacting the various impact fees do make him somewhat concerned. Originally the experts that came in and advised us about what to do on impact fees didn't want us to have any exemptions, not even for affordable housing. They 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 3 of 18 said they wanted it to be 100% right across the board. Rather than have an exemption they said if we wanted to encourage affordable housing or something like that we should just pay out of the General Fund. We decided not to do that but to have a very small affordable housing exemption. What we are looking at here are major exemptions and we are also looking at different methodology than has been used before. Every time we start changing the rules in between the impact fees it concerns him that we are not being consistent and therefore someone could more easily attack our impact fees. He said he is not saying that they would be successful in such a challenge but the fees are not as strong as they would be if they all were uniform. Alderman Jordan asked how the impact fees that went before the voters were in line with the other impact fees that the City has passed. Kit Williams said they were in line. He said we condensed the number of items, types of housing or commercial development, for the street fee but at the same time went back and made the same changes for fire and police impact fees so that they would all match up. Of course the water and sewer impact fee is a little different because it is based on water meter size instead of anything else. Alderman Ferrell asked Tim Conklin if any of the towns with impact fees which he had mentioned had exemptions and what their rationale was for not feeling they were in jeopardy for having them. Tim Conklin said the City of Conway, Arkansas exempted their industrial park and their downtown. He said he assumed the reason for the Industrial Park exemption was job creation and the reason for the downtown exemption was to encourage infill and revitalization. He said he received an email from Cain County, Illinois which is a very large county. They are trying to implement their long range planning program of goals with regard to transit and density. There are studies out there that show that mass transit is more efficient at 7 units per acre and light rail systems at 10 to 15 units per acre. If there is the opportunity for a land use pattern that could reduce traffic then they would reduce the fee. He said he thought that was a fairly innovative way to look at how to try to have a land use type that actually reduces the reliance on the automobile and reduces the amount of vehicle miles of travel in your community. Alderwoman Allen said she would be interested in what might happen if we were to exempt the industrial park and the downtown as an economic incentive for Fayetteville. Since the City decided in their 2025 plan that affordable housing is one of our major goals, she would think that "B", "G" and "I" (on the list) are all kind of interrelated with that. She said she understands Kit's concerns but would still like to have a little more information about that. She said the small house is usually going to be more affordable and a compact and dense development with a small lot is going to be more affordable as would the housing diversity of mixed types. She said she would like to know more about these. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 4 of 18 Alderman Ferrell said he appreciates Alderman Jordan trying to be flexible about taking a look at impact fees again. He said he likes the idea of looking at industrial, downtown, retail and commercial He said he thinks Alderwoman Allen's ideas are good but he is afraid the "devil will be in the details". We want to exempt affordable housing and encourage diversity but he would like to keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Kit Williams said he would agree with that. He said he would think that it would be very difficult to draft an ordinance that would fairly define all the stuff in the "G" through "L" part (of the list). He said it's hard to say when you have walkability. If the block is ten feet longer than we want it to be, they lose their exemption and that would be the kind of change that is sometimes difficult to support in court. These items would be much more difficult to put into an ordinance, even more difficult than the house size. You can speak of square feet and everyone knows what that means but if you start talking about proximity to mass transit, infill, and diversity of housing that is a much more difficult concept to make clear in the ordinance. He also pointed out one part of the statute that gives him a little bit of concern. He said the statute reads, "a developmental impact fee ordinance shall contain", then continues in subsection `B": "The actual, formula or formulas for assessing the impact fee, which shall be consistent with the level of service standards. He said he isn't exactly sure what "shall be consistent" means, even though they are talking about the level of service standards that we must have. He wonders if we really are not supposed to be doing other things except for providing money for development. That gives him a little bit of concern even though this law has not been challenged in court, so courts have never interpreted it. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment. There being none, he returned the discussion to the Street Committee. Alderman Ferrell said he has a couple of suggestions. He said he would like for staff to look at not only the size of the houses but the distance from the center of the City. He said he believes the further out you go, the further out you strain the City's services. So we encourage development more in the interior of the town. The further out you go the more you pay and the closer in you build the less you pay. He said he had heard some developers say they couldn't understand with all the City services in the center of town, why they had to pay an impact fee. He said that makes sense to him. He said he would like to look more at this. Alderman Jordan said he would also like to see what it would look like if we didn't charge any impact fee for industrial, commercial and retail — encouraging businesses to come into town. He would also like to look at a reduced rate, something comparable to what other cities to the north of us might be charging. He asked if this gives Mr. Conklin the direction he needs. Tim Conklin said it gives him good direction. He said in the packet he gave to Committee members there is a University of Arkansas Cost Development Index which was paid by for Fayetteville Economic Development Council and provided to the Committee for their use. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 5 of 18 Alderman Jordan asked Mr. Conklin when he thinks he will have something put together. Tim Conklin said he could bring something back by mid-January. 5. Presentation and discussion of a proposed Access Manaeement Ordinance to replace UDO Chapter 166.08, Desirn Standards for public streets Leif Olson said access management is something that the planning and engineering staff has been working on for the last six months. They have worked up some design standards to go into our Unified Development Ordinance to replace what we currently have in there. He said the goal of access management is basically to reduce the number of conflicts in terms of left turns, curb cuts where you have automobile conflict in your street system. That goes along with separating the potential conflict points and minimizing and removing the turning vehicles and cues from the three traffic movements. You do this to protect the City's investment in the current and future capacity of the roadway. When completed you are ensuring that all the access to future development is planned in the safest and most effective manner. Mr. Olson provided the ordinance as drafted. He said he would break up the presentation to first look at block length, lay -out and connectivity. The ordinance would require intersections at specified points: arterials, collectors, local streets, and residential streets. One graphic depicted the historic grid of downtown Fayetteville. He said that typically those blocks are 600 to 800 feet on the long side and 300 to 500 feet on the short side if they are rectangular in nature. The classic street grid system gives the motorists numerous points to turn right or left and basically will disperse the traffic pattern more evenly throughout a geographical area. He said in order to encourage connectivity, dead end streets and cul-de-sacs should be discouraged and used only when you have physical, topographical barriers impeding a street. He said you should have a maximum length for a cul-de-sac without adding a street stub to go to an adjoining property. That length in this ordinance is 500 feet. So if it is internal to a project those streets need to connect. He displayed two maps for a couple of locations in Fayetteville — one for College Avenue. He said going north you have curb cuts one right after another and street intersections offset from each other. He said he believes everyone can understand the conflict points as you drive up College Avenue. The second map depicts CMN Business Park. He pointed out that the distance from one intersection to the curb cut to get into the Olive Garden Restaurant is 300 feet. The same is true for the curb cut to get into Logan's Steak House. He said this gives you an idea of how we are trying to lay out a street pattern where you control the vehicular traffic and don't have as many conflict points in the street system. It allows for through traffic movements. He said if you take an arterial street and allow a curb cut every fifty feet, that arterial street no longer acts as an arterial because you have so many conflicts with people turning right and left. Mr. Olson said this brought the discussion to curb cut minimum standards which involve where you put curb cuts and how much distance you have between curb cuts to try to keep that through traffic moving. In the standards that staff is proposing for principal and minor arterial streets, if there is a street with a lower classification that can be accessed adjacent to the development then the business would need to access off of that street. If you have to access on a principal or minor arterial then the length of street frontage that the property has would determine the number of 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 6 of 18 curb cuts you would be allowed. The more street frontage you have the more curb cuts you would be allowed. Collector streets are typically smaller and don't carry as much traffic so more curb cuts for less frontage would be allowed. Alderwoman Allen asked what volume of traffic makes a street a collector street. Leif Olsen said around six thousand vehicle trips per day. On a residential street you may have a driveway every fifty feet, depending on your lot width. An RSF 4 zoned subdivision typically has seventy feet of frontage per lot and everyone would get their one curb cut. He went on to say that existing non -conforming access features would be permitted until such a time when the property is redeveloped and they are asking for a new access connection permit or until they expand and improve their property greater than 50% of the property value or the gross floor area or the volume, or as roadway improvements allow. As we come back and retrofit some of our existing roadways, we would take care of some of those access issues at that time. He said this is pretty much what the ordinance says. He said the City Attorney has reviewed the ordinance and the changes he requested are included in the material given to the Committee. His changes mostly include taking all the "shall' statements and changing them to "should. " Tim Conklin _said in 1994 the City of Fayetteville passed a Design Overlay District establishing access management standards along I540 and Fulbright Expressway. However; we do not have access management standards city wide. The City of Rogers has access management standards and he believes the City of Bentonville has as well so this is not something new to Northwest Arkansas. He said as we implement our street bond program projects and we build all this capacity it is going to be critical that we set reasonable standards. He said we have all experienced College Avenue and the amount of turning movements and conflicts there. We do want to make sure that the property has access to it, but we want to manage it. It is something that the development community and the public are interested in and it is discussed at the Planning Commission often. It would be helpful to staff and everyone involved to know what the rules are on the front end. Alderwoman Allen asked if Mr. Conklin knows when Rogers enacted their ordinance. Tim Conklin said he doesn't know the date but can find out. Alderman Ferrell asked if most of the developers of the newer developments in Fayetteville understand that Planning wants fewer curb cuts and if they have bought into the idea. Leif Olsen said he thinks they understand it; however; our current ordinance does not have any teeth to it. Planning can ask for limited curb cuts but we have all seen projects that have come through recently where they did not agree with staff's opinion and so they came to the Council requesting curb cuts closer than what staff would like to see. It is one of those things where you allow one curb cut and then you allow the next one and the next one, and then 20 years later you have North College Avenue. So at what point do you stop? At what point do you say this is what 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 7 of 18 we want and if you can't do what we want, then you need to come and ask for a variance. The responsibility is then on the developer to ask permission rather than the staff to ask the developer to work with them. Alderman Ferrell asked what the rationale usually is for asking for more curb cuts than recommended by staff. Leif Olsen said every business wants to have access to every roadway to which they are adjacent. They may be on a principal arterial with a collector coming into it, so that they can easily access the property from the collector street. But they are going to want that curb cut on the principal arterial also. In response to a further question from Alderman Ferrell, Leif Olson said if a business on College Avenue is going to do a major renovation or remodel, we will reduce some of the access points. Planning and Engineering staff will work with the individual property owners to try to minimize conflict that exists because we would be trying to retrofit it. Alderman Ferrell asked if this process has started and if contact has begun. Ron Petrie said we have had some public meetings and some personal meetings with property owners. Alderman Ferrell asked how they are receiving it. Ron Petrie said it has been mixed as would be expected. They are generally supportive of the project as long as we are reasonable with our requests. Alderman Ferrell asked if the Council approves this if anyone will still be allowed to ask for a variance. Leif Olsen said they would be allowed to ask for a variance. Alderman Jordan said the only thing he sees that will be a problem (and has been a problem) is the connectivity issue and the neighborhoods that back into a corner and just say they don't want us cutting through. He asked if there would be the usual grounds for an alderman to bring this to the Council. In other words, what is the difference between this and what we have now in regard to this sort of thing? Tim Conklin _said he has heard the arguments about not wanting to be connected. He said he has also seen neighbors at the Planning Commission and Council meetings saying they can't get out of their subdivisions because there is only one way in and out. He said he has seen developments that have caused a lot of conflicts on the major roadways. He said he has seen others that have been planned better that have reduced those conflicts. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 8 of 18 Alderman Jordan said we are just sort of where we are with that and we will have to play it by ear as we go along. Leif Olsen said the five hundred feet maximum for a cul-de-sac is the same as what is currently in our ordinance. Kit Williams said there are a lot of streets that violate that maximum. Sometimes the topography is going to dictate the length and there will have to be a variance in order to allow development on somebody's land. He said he was a little confused when reading the block length and when we want to signalize an intersection. He interpreted that they had to be spaced at least a half mile apart. But he believes we are saying that there must be a signalized intersection every half mile. Leif Olsen said they could be closer. Kit Williams said they would have to be according to what the draft ordinance says because it says "shall". He asked if we have looked at all the arterials and seen how many more traffic signals we might have to do if this is passed so that all our arterials must have traffic signals every half mile. Leif Olsen said a greenfield development would plan their development around those numbers. He said we are not saying we are going to go out and put a stop light every 800 feet or half mile. You can't do much with what has already been built. This really goes more toward new developments. We are now seeing these master developments — 200 or 400 acres. When you do a development that large you need to have some different ways to get through that development and get out onto existing roadways. Kit Williams asked if our existing arterials are not going to be included in this. Tim Conklin said this says "should" also. Alderman Jordan asked what the difference is between "shall and "should. " Kit Williams said "shall" means it will happen; "should" means it ought to. Alderwoman Allen asked as redevelopment occurs on College, for example the Walgreen's there will the curb cuts change too? Tim Conklin said that yes, as redevelopment occurs that will happen Alderman Jordan opened the,/loor to public comment 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 9 of 18 Tracy Hoskins said he noticed on one of the slides you could have one curb cut for up to 500 ft. of frontage. He said he doesn't know of very many properties along arterial roads that have 500 feet of frontage. Most everything along North College is very, very narrow. Kit Williams said they can have one curb cut. Tracy Hoskins asked if the properties are very narrow if this won't put them very close together again. Kit Williams said the law says that a property alongside a road has an access easement to the road so we can't deny a curb cut to a property unless we want to pay for it. Tracy Hoskins said he would be concerned about the signalization thing also. Kit Williams said staff is saying it doesn't apply to the current arterials. It is a "should" and not a "shall". Alderman Ferrell asked Leif Olson about the one slide where the business would have to have access on the street with the lower classification. He asked for another example of this. Leif Olsen mentioned the Liberty Bank on Joyce. You have Joyce Ave., the principal arterial, and another street coming into that. They wanted a curb cut onto the principal arterial. Their property had access off a collector street off to the side. So they need to access to that collector street. Kit Williams said they have a right to access to Joyce which was granted to them by the City Council and also granted to them under State law. He compared this situation to Mason's who put their building forward on Joyce street and didn't have a direct access off Joyce. They had access off the road right by the building where there was a stop light and they had a parking lot behind. This was what the planning department had recommended and Mason's is a very pretty building. Tim Conklin used the example Highway 62 and Finger Road areas by Lowe's and Walmart on the south side of the street. He said the City worked hard with Murphy Oil, Walmart and the banks to limit curb cuts coming out. There are 3 or 4 curb cuts from Walmart all the way back west to Lowe's. Alderman Jordan asked if the staff needs anything more. Tim Conklin said staff will have to make a determination whether to use "should" or "shall" in the ordinance. He said he has had a lot of discussions with staff, developers and designers on whether or not this should be a requirement or something that we desire. He said the call can be made at the Council level if the Committee would like to. The City Attorney will be present 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 10 of 18 there. Or the Committee can make the decision tonight. The City Attorney will probably still have some issues. Alderman Jordan asked if Mr. Williams would rather have it be "should' rather than "shall." Tim Conklin said that is correct. Alderman Jordan said he understands that the staff doesn't agree with that. Leif Olsen said that would not change things from the way we are doing them now. If we change all the "shall" statements to "should" statements, then our current ordinance is just as applicable. Alderman Jordan said we will have another Street Committee meeting in January. He wondered if we could wait until that meeting. We could ask Kit to be present again and work this out. He said he thinks it would be better to work a lot of this out at the Committee level instead of taking it right on to the City Council. The decision was made to table this discussion to the next Street Committee meeting. Discussion of status of traffic calmine scheduled for Poplar Street near Woodland Junior High School. Alderwoman Allen said she would like to thank Chairman Jordan for not putting this at the end of the agenda because there are quite a few people here who want to hear the comments. There are also some who would like to speak. She said the problem is at the intersection at Poplar and Yates as people try to cut through from College. They don't realize it doesn't go to Gregg Ave. so they blast down there. In this last incident, the car was clocked by the police at between 85 and 90 miles an hour on Saturday night. A car crashed through gates, moved a one thousand pound rock and crashed a car into an accordion and the guy just has a sore back. She said she went down to view it and to represent the City of Fayetteville at 1:00 o'clock in the morning. She said a couple of the neighbors would like to speak tonight. Alderwoman Allen had some pictures of the damages taken by Andy Ship of the Northwest Arkansas Times. She said Beth Hall from the Associated Press has some pictures also. Alderwoman Allen also had a letter from a neighbor who was unable to be here but who wanted to express concern. She also talked to Anita Lawson, the principal of Woodland Junior High School who expressed her concern about the safety of the children and to Mahlon and Sondra Gibson who lived in that house for many years. They said they could not count the number of times that there were near calamities and serious problems. She said a couple of people from the neighborhood would like to speak and plead for some traffic calming in this area. Alderman Jordan said he knows we have discussed this at the Street Committee a couple of times and that a speed table was supposed to be installed toward the end of the year. He asked if staff has any idea of where we are on the schedule on this speed table. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 11 of 18 Terry Gulley said he has a list of 16 speed tables and this one was most recently approved. He said he has known about the ones on Rolling Hills and Winwood for awhile Alderwoman Allen asked if by "most recent" Mr. Gulley means they are at the bottom of the list or the top of the list. Terry Gulley said the Committee can rearrange the list. He said he was told about the others prior to the Committee making this decision about a month ago. Alderwoman Allen said she came before the Street Committee as a citizen two years ago and talked about it. Alderman Jordan said that the decision was made a couple of months ago. Alderwoman Allen agreed and said that Ron Petrie said he thought we could have it in by the end of the year. She said that this is her neighborhood and they feel that it is such a serious problem that they are hoping it can be made a higher priority. There is just so much danger with children walking around. For the police to clock this last guy at 85 to 90 miles an hour - that is seriously fast and something must be done. She said those in the neighborhood have thought of several options, including possible consideration of closing part of the street. She said the school children, neighborhood children and the people in the neighborhood are at risk with this unusual situation. Alderman Ferrell said he remembers when this came up before. He said although we can never guard against drunks driving 90 miles an hour he believes that it is time to move with this. Alderman Jordan said he doesn't have a problem with that. He said we will hear from the neighbors but the Committee will probably be moving this up to the top of the list. Debbie Brewer said she had some pictures to show. She said she was here a couple of years ago with this issue. She said she is no longer going to sit back and be quiet about this. She talked about the damage done to her home. She said the kids jump in the ditches to get away from cars. She feels this has gone on way too long and feels there has been gross neglect. She said they appreciate the stripes and the sidewalks but it would be like walking down Hwy. 71 until it is fixed where they can be safe in their own homes. She said this is one of the oldest and most beautiful neighborhoods in this City and her neighbors are absolutely wonderful. Traffic can use Township, North Street and Sycamore yet they go down a street where there are children. She said no one is safe down through there. She said she can't fix this without this Committee. Beth Hall said that while she is grateful for one speed table, she doesn't think one will take care of it. She wonders if maybe stop signs or multiple speed tables might work. But she thinks it is bigger than one speed table. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 12 of 18 Karen Miller said she lives in this area and is also concerned about this issue. She said the accident on Saturday was terrifying William Brewer said one of the five directional signs that were put up at the corner of Yates and Sycamore is now on the roof of their house, two are laid down and two are misdirectionalized. He talked about the traffic and how fast cars travel down this road. He believes there should be more than one speed bump. Charles Richardson said he lives at the top of Green Valley on Sycamore Street. He voiced his concerns for safety in the neighborhood. He said it is rare for cars to travel the speed limit (25 mph). He asked if one of the signs that say "The Speed Limit is ... and You are Going..." might be put up. He said the police do a pretty good job and are pretty vigilant, but they are limited. Maybe the sign would do some good once in awhile. He said he would be glad to donate the electricity and offer a spot in his yard if the City wants to put a sign up. David Lewis said he lives on the corner of Miller and Yates. He said they get the traffic coming right off of Gregg Ave. He said he has been up late at night and has seen two cars spin out on that corner not realizing there is a corner there because there are no real signs coming from off of Gregg. He said it seems that it is a major thoroughfare for traffic on College. He says he thinks traffic has died down a little but they are still having some problems. He said he appreciates all the work that has been done there. He said the City has been out there doing a lot of work over the last few weeks and that is great. He said it is nice to have a sidewalk. However, the neighborhood is worried about their security. Sarah Manglin said there is a lot of traffic on the street all day long and they do miss the curb all the time. She said she appreciates the lines on the street and the sidewalk and signs and everything that has been done so far. Alderwoman Allen said she has had several people make suggestions other than the speed bumps. She also liked Mr. Richardson's idea of the radar sign. She said neighbors had mentioned to her the idea of closing the street at Green Valley. She doesn't know if that would solve anything or not but it was something that was suggested. She said in regard to where this project is on the list, she understands about fairness and not cutting in line but thinks there are sometimes situations that make you have to go to the top of the list. She said it was two years ago that she and Debbie came before the Street Committee to talk about this situation. She said she thinks it is time and past time to do something. She is hoping that we can start tomorrow to put up speed limit signs so this won't happen again. Debbie Brewer asked about closing that street and making it a cul-de-sac so the school buses don't have to come around that little curve that they can't make anyway. There are plenty of outlets and everybody would be safe. It would totally correct the problem without spending any more money on anything if we closed it off. It would make our children safe and it would really make a big difference. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 13 of 18 There being no further public comment Alderman Jordan brought the discussion back to the Street Committee. Alderman Jordan asked for thoughts on closing off this street. Ron Petrie said if you close it there at Green Valley you are just moving the problem. He thinks it needs to be studied more. Closing the street has never truly been studied. Alderman Jordan said if we go ahead and put the speed table in then we have spent money so would we then want to close the street off. Alderwoman Allen said in trying to find ways to tighten up the budget she brought up delaying the speed tables. But she also said that the safety of our citizens, Fire and Police came first. She said she thinks this is a safety issue. She wondered if the sign that tells you how fast you're going could be there pretty regularly. Ron Petrie said the police department has the sign. He said he can make that contact. The signs are usually pretty easy unless they have committed it somewhere else. Alderman Jordan asked how long it would take to study this. Ron Petrie said it shouldn't be a problem to have something for the next Street Committee meeting. Alderman Ferrell asked if in a study staff would contact everyone who lives on that street and see what their thoughts are on it. He wondered how the study would work. Ron Petrie said we would need to evaluate the whole network around it. He said we have x number of cars going through there and we have to make an educated guess on where they will move to and if there is some logical places where they can go without creating the same problem elsewhere. We could try a temporary closure and see how it works and where the traffic goes. Alderman Ferrell asked what it takes to do a temporary closure. Gary Dumas said the transportation department would go out and put up a barricade and some signs. A permanent closure requires some construction but a temporary closure would only require a barrier with some advance notification. Ron Petrie said this is not a good time to do the closure because we would not be getting a good idea of traffic patterns with the schools and the University closed. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 14 of 18 Alderman Jordan summarized what had been discussed. We can go ahead and put the speed table in and not do the study and possibly not close the street. Or we can wait a month, do the study and if the study comes back advising not to close the street we still can put the speed table in or decide what we want to do. He asked for the thoughts of the Committee. Alderwoman Allen said her inclination is to take the month to do the study and make sure we do this right. She said we can't have both (street closure and speed table). She also hopes that the police will be willing to put the speed sign up in the neighborhood. Alderman Jordan said we will do the study and Ron will come back with results in January. The neighbors can come back to that meeting and we will let them know what staff has found. If the study does not recommend that we close the road, we will still put the speed tables in. Alderwoman Allen said since we are going to wait and try to do this right she wondered if while doing the study staff can look at the possibility of multiple speed tables or some other kind of speed control. Ron Petrie agreed to look at that. Gary Dumas said sometimes multiple speed tables are more effective, just like on Maple. It discourages traffic and slows the traffic down. 7. Discussion of a public alley located off Doewood Lane between Lafavette Street and Assembly Drive as requested by the Transportation Division. This Item was tabled at the November 5, 2007 meeting. Terry Gulley said staff is looking for a policy decision. When we go in and abandon these alleys, he believes we need to abandon the whole alley if it is not going to serve a purpose for providing through transportation for several residences. He said in this particular case a portion of the alley was abandoned 30 years ago. He said staff just needs some clear direction on what to do. He said he has another situation where we have an alley vacation request which he described to the Committee. He asked what should be our policy on whether we abandon the entire alley or partial alleys when doing these vacations. Alderwoman Allen said semi -abandonment seems a little stupid. We either do it or don't. Alderman Jordan asked if Mr. Gulley is asking whether we are going to maintain these alleys or not. Terry Gulley wondered where we go on maintenance issues after we abandon the alley. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 15 of 18 In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Terry Gulley said we are currently doing no maintenance on this alley for which the vacation is requested. But if the alley should suddenly begin to be used on a daily basis, would we become responsible for maintenance. Alderman Jordan opened the floor to public comment. Allen Reed said he is representing one of the owners of property on the alley. He said the property owner lives in one house and is remodeling another house to sell. He said he believes the City's policy is to get away from on -street parking. He said Highland Street is narrow with no curb and gutter or sidewalk. The owner is asking that 140 ft. of the east end of this alley be closed for parking. City transportation came out and said the topography is so steep that they would never suggest building there. The owner suggested closing it off and putting parking in there to take cars off the street. He said the owner never wanted to close the other part of the alley because he might want to put a garage behind the house. He said this is a public alley and in his mind the public has a right to use it. He said that none of the alley has ever been driven on. It is all grown up. He said you could access the rear of the properties through the public dedicated alley if somebody built the alley. It is the wish of the property owners to use the alley to access the rear of their property and close the other portion because it is so steep a street can't be built there. Alderman Jordan asked for staff's recommendation. Ron Petrie said ideally we would vacate the whole thing and stop leaving portions open. Terry Gulley said he wanted to clarify that the transportation division told the property owner it would be difficult to build on that portion of property — not that they couldn't build on it. Alderman Ferrell asked Mr. Petrie what his recommendation would be — to vacate it or not. Ron Petrie said the safe thing to do is do nothing. Don't vacate anything. But that won't address the issue because if the Committee says no, the property owner will still submit a request for a road, driveway or alley. Engineering staff will review it and will have to approve it because it is a public alley. Gary Dumas said he doesn't have any problem with the property owner using the alley for access but he doesn't think the City needs to have the liability of maintaining it as a personal driveway. He said he hates to do anything piecemeal and this is a piecemeal request. Alderwoman Allen asked if it would be good to wait until a January ward meeting to get some input from the people in the neighborhood. Alderman Jordan asked Alderwoman Allen to report back to the Committee on what she finds out at the ward meeting. We will make a decision in January. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 16 of 18 8. General update of the Transportation Bond Program Chris Brown reminded the Committee that there are two projects we will be starting construction on very soon — Zion Road and the Gregg Avenue/North Street Intersection. He said a notice to proceed has been issued to the contractor on the Zion Road project. We have to get the contracts signed and all the paperwork taken care of before staff can issue a notice to proceed on the Gregg Ave/North Street intersection. However, it will start soon. He said contracts for two of the projects in the Expressway Corridor are being negotiated. We are continuing on the design for the Mt. Comfort project and will be starting the property acquisition at the intersection of I540 and Mt. Comfort. Alderman Jordan asked if we will get caught up on the Expressway project once the study comes in. Ron Petrie said we never really established a schedule for this project so we are not behind on it. Since we didn't know exactly what we were going to build, we couldn't set a schedule. This is the only project set up that way. We have sent the agreements back to the State on this and once we get clear direction from them, we will update the sheet and put a real schedule on it. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment. There was none. 9. Discussion of the December 4, 2007 correspondence from the Arkansas Highway and Transportation Division regarding the Highway 265 widening project. Ron Petrie said this letter was in response to the letter that the Street Committee directed the Mayor to send to the AHTD. This letter from the State gives some explanation of the cost increases on this project. They have more or less agreed to cover the additional cost in order to build the project at least from the south end to Joyce Street. Alderman Jordan asked how much less that is than what we originally planned for. Ron Petrie said it is approximately 50% of the original distance when we were looking at the city limits. What we have committed to is the $7.7 million for that entire stretch. They have come back and said they can guarantee us 50% to get it to Joyce Street. Mr. Petrie figures that as an additional cost to the State of $6.4 million. The original $15.4 million would have taken us a little past Old Wire Road. So they have committed to some additional money to give additional length to the project. However, we are still only at 50% of the length for which they originally committed. We are now in the middle of this negotiation. He said the mayor has not had the opportunity to completely review this though staff has emailed him the letter. Gary Dumas said he does not know what the mayor's feelings about this are. Mr. Dumas said he doesn't know where we would come up with the additional money needed for the next 50% of 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 17 of 18 the project at some future time. There is no additional funding programmed into the bond program or the CIP for additional work Ron Petrie said we can continue to negotiate with the State to see if that will lead to anything further. Our other option is to take this and proceed on with the project. From what he understands, this is not delaying the project. The State is proceeding on with plans. Alderman Ferrell said he believes this road needs to be built. He doesn't know how or when but he would like to see us continue to negotiate. He asked Mr. Petrie if it is typical to not include the cost of right-of-way acquisition on these projects. Ron Petrie said it is certainly not typical for the City to do that. He said he had the same question. He would have thought that would have been a part of the State's original estimates. Alderman Ferrell asked if we could get an answer on whether AHTD usually includes the cost of right-of-way acquisition and utility relocation in estimates. Ron Petrie said he doesn't know if they have a separate pool of money from which they pull those expenses. That would be the only thing he could think of as a reasonable explanation. Alderman Ferrell said he would like to see us move forward on this and continue to negotiate. Alderwoman Allen asked if we are going to go as far with this road as we can with the previously stated amenities or if that has been decided. Alderman Jordan said it was sort of decided by the people. When we talked about moving the money somewhere, it was brought to his attention that the people had voted on this and made the decision to fund it as it was designed. Mike Johnson asked if it was part of the deal that the State will complete full design to the City limits. Ron Petrie said that was the original deal. Mike Johnson said if they are going to put extra money in to getting to Joyce, the City should at least get them to finish the full design so we know what we have to deal with for the remaining piece, even if we have to go to phase 2 of the bond. At least it is designed. Ron Petrie said all the preliminary plans he has seen have shown the whole route to the City limits. We'll have to find out about the final design. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes December. 10, 2007 Page 18 of 18 Additional Item Ron Petrie passed out a letter recently sent by the mayor asking the AHTD to provide some comments on a concept presented to staff by a property owner along Hwy 112 regarding the relocation of Hwy 112. Staff does not have a formal recommendation today. This item will be brought to the Street Committee after the State has had an opportunity to review it. 10. Scheduling the Next Street Committee Meeting The next meeting of the Street Committee was set for Monday, January 21, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org