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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-08-06 MinutesCity Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 1 of 18 Member Aldermen Mayor Dan Coody Ward 1 Position l — Brenda Thiel V10 Ward 2 Position 2 — Nancy Allen CityAttorney Kit Williams � 1 Ward 3 Position 2—Robert Ferrell Ward 4 Position 2 — Lioneld Jordan City Clerk Sondra Smith ARKANSAS City of Fayetteville Arkansas City Council Street Committee Meeting Minutes August 6, 2007 A meeting of the Fayetteville City Council Street Committee was held on August 6, 2007 at 4:30 p.m. in Room 219 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street, Fayetteville, Arkansas. MEMBERS PRESENT: Alderman Lioneld Jordan, Chair; Alderwoman Nancy Allen, Alderman Robert Ferrell, Alderwoman Brenda Thiel Staff Present: Ron Petrie, Chris Brown, Tim Conklin 1. Call to Order Chairman Lioneld Jordan called the meeting to order. 2. Approval of the minutes of the July 2, 2007 and July 11, 2007 Street Committee meetings Alderwoman Allen moved that the minutes to the July 2, 2007 and July 11, 2007Street Committee meetings be approved as submitted Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 3. Transportation Bond Program Items A. Presentation of the comments from the August 2, 2007 public meeting for the Cato Springs Road Improvement Project and discussion of authorization to proceed with final design and right-of-way acquisition Alderman Jordan cautioned everyone to keep in mind that this is not the final discussion on this item. There will be another showing of the plans and more public comment before it comes back to the Street Committee for a recommendation to the Council. There will be more opportunities to discuss the issue. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 2 of 18 Ron Petrie thanked Phil Stafford and the ARTP for letting the City use their facility for the meeting last Thursday. There was a very good turnout. Twenty-seven people signed in and twenty were property owners. That represented 30% of the properties in this area. At the meeting ten people left comments and two additional comments were e-mailed in on Friday. Another comment was received tonight and all these were distributed to the Committee. In general the comments received from residents on the south side of the road showed support and satisfaction with the design. Those residents on the north side of the road where the ten -foot sidewalk and six feet of green space (in some areas ten feet of green space) is planned expressed some concern about this. He said representatives from Garver Engineers are present tonight to give a brief overview of the proposal for the benefit of those present. Frank MCIUWain with Garver Engineers presented the conceptual design (the first of three phases of design) of the project. He said there are two basic typical sections. The typical sections are split by the creek. East of the creek in front of ARTP and some residential development on the south, the road is three lanes (two travel lanes and a continuous turn lane), no sidewalk on the south side and a ten -foot green space and ten -foot sidewalk on the north side. That was a compromise of the typical section that was part of the concept during development of the program. Instead of a six-foot sidewalk on each side (twelve -foot total sidewalk), by moving the sidewalk to the north side it was decided that a ten foot sidewalk was sufficient to provide two-way pedestrian traffic. On the west side of the creek there are two lanes and the green space is reduced to six feet. He said west of the creek the right-of-way requirement on the north side with this design is exactly the same for the ten -foot sidewalk as it would be for a six-foot sidewalk. They took away green space and added additional sidewalk width to reduce the imposition on property owners. Alderwoman Thiel said she thought it was important that this fact be noted because there was some misinformation that came out at the meeting. She said there has been no change in the area west of the bridge and the only change east of the bridge is that we're adding a continuous turn lane. Frank McIllwain said another point to bring out is that the design criterion was to make the south edge of the road as close to where it is today as possible. In particular the widening on the east side of the creek is mostly coming off the University's property, with the exception of a few landowners. We have heard from these landowners and will probably hear from them tonight. Alderwoman Thiel said most everyone who lives on the south side who attended the meeting was very pleased. They were probably the most vocal when the original plan was brought up because of their concerns about the trees on the south side. Alderman Jordan said he has also heard from some of his constituents on the north side who are concerned about how close the road would be to their homes. He said he hopes we can address some of those concerns. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 3 of 18 Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment Richard Watson said he is a long time resident of Fayetteville. He said he couldn't attend the last meeting because he was out of state. He said he understood the initial plan was for a sidewalk on each side of the road and he could live with that. He said that people are forgetting, in putting all the sidewalk on the north side, that most of the kids live on the south side, east of the bridge. He talked about the configuration and the necessity for kids catching the school bus in an area where they will have to cross the highway to walk on the sidewalk. He thinks it would be fairer to put a sidewalk on the south side as well as the north and not take so much of the residents' property on the north side. He said the improvements are for the university and won't help the property owners. He said if you come eighteen to twenty feet into his property you will be right up against his house and the house will be hard to sell. He said his primary concern is the safety of the kids that come along the street to ride the school bus. He said the road is busy and the traffic can be fast. It would make more sense to put the sidewalk on both sides. Jeff Lindsey said he is a long time resident, property owner and rental property owner on the north side of Cato Springs Road. He did approve of the initial plan on the transportation bond program. He thought it was a good design with the two sidewalks. He thought it was unilaterally fair across the board to the entire neighborhood and was a much safer design. He also wondered why the continuous turn lane is only on the east end of the road when all the truck traffic is actually on the west end. He does think we will lose some trees at some point in this. He said he hates losing any trees but said that is part of progress. He said he is opposed to the design as it was presented on Thursday evening. Larry West said he has been asked to read two statements - one from his niece and one from his sister-in-law, neither of whom could be here. The statement from his niece expressed concern with the plan because of the amount of property to be taken on the north side of the street. The statement from his sister-in-law also expressed her opposition to the plan because of the amount of land to be taken for the construction of the sidewalk. Mez Zatfi is the owner of a business on the corner of Cato Springs Road and South School. He said the twenty feet of sidewalk and green space will take almost enough space from him for eight cars. Based on an average inventory of twenty-five cars, eight cars will make it almost impossible for him to continue to operate. He doesn't think this plan is fair to people on the north side. Dawn Sparks lives on the west end of Cato Springs Road. She said since Biobased is building in the area where the City's building used to be, she wondered if they are exempt from putting in a sidewalk on their side of the street. She said that any new construction is supposed to have a sidewalk in front. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 4 of 18 Ron Petrie said it was decided when it was approved by the Planning Commission that Biobased would give the City money in lieu of installing sidewalks. At the time we didn't know who was going to come first with construction. They would have to build a sidewalk or pay us money for the sidewalk along their frontage. Either way they have to dedicate the right-of-way. Dawn Sparks said there should therefore be no reason why from Vail Avenue down to Razorback Road to have a ten -foot sidewalk in front of her house. John Field said neither he nor his family understands why there has to be a ten foot sidewalk. The sidewalk would come right up to his front, if not take his front porch out. He wondered where the ten foot of green space is going to come from. He thought the sidewalk should be built on the other side and that it shouldn't have to be ten feet. He said they do not want to lose their homes. Alderman Jordan assured Mr. Field that he wouldn't be losing his home. He asked staff how close the sidewalk would be to Mr. Field's house. Frank McIllwain said there are three properties in this area. He said the Sparks house, the east most of the three, is fifteen feet from front of structure (the porch) to the right of way. Going west from there, the Betty Fields house, from of porch to the right-of-way is sixteen feet. The last house from front of structure to right-of-way is fourteen feet. He reminded everyone that the first plan had the outside limit of the sidewalk at the very same location as what is in today's plan. The widening of the sidewalk happened toward the roadway instead of toward the property owners. In response to a question from Alderwoman Allen, Frank McIllwain said for all three houses the distance from the sidewalk to the front of the house (or front porch) is around fifteen feet. Alderwoman Thiel asked if she is correct that if we went back to the original plan and put a sidewalk on the south side, it would not change this a bit. Frank McIllwain said that is true if you did a typical sidewalk on the north side. Ron Petrie said the options for this location are two fold. One is to reduce the size of the sidewalk. The proposal at this time is six-foot of green space and we could reduce that, although staff would not recommend this. He said there is a possibility of shifting the road in that particular location somewhere around four feet to the south and reduce the sidewalk width to 6 ft. It would put a little bend in the road that wouldn't hurt anything. You could gain potentially nine to ten feet right there. This only applies to the west end. Holly Hogget owns a residence on the corner of Garland and Cato Springs. He said Mr. McIllwain had mentioned earlier that none of the rights-of-way had been changed. He said he is probably the exception to that rule. He said it does appear that his right-of-way has been moved 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 5 of 18 back substantially to, for one thing, add a turn lane. He wondered how necessary the turn lane is. He said South Garland is supported by a four lane (15th Street) and a four lane coming off Razorback Road. He thinks trying to add another major intersection to move into this area is questionable at best. He said there is also a sign there that says "No Trucks". So there is no truck traffic on that street. He said he has had the property for about sixteen years and is down there frequently and he has never been stuck there for any length of time or even noticed a car waiting to turn to get onto that street. He said he, too, is concerned about the ten -foot sidewalk. At the meeting Thursday the first explanation for the sidewalk he heard was about preserving some of the trees along the south side. He said he is interested in preserving trees when we can. The second reason given was that it wasn't actually a sidewalk but a trail. The third reason he was given is that the University wants it that way. He said he is in support of the sidewalks and is in support of the widening of this street. He is in support of green spaces, and he is in support of trees but he thinks when we use terms like typical setbacks we are not taking into account that we are not dealing with a typical neighborhood. These houses were built before the typical ten - foot sidewalks. He said he is willing to cooperate with this project and has sent the aldermen some options he is willing to go along with. He said if we do need the turn lane, we definitely need to reduce the sidewalk and possibly reduce or eliminate the green space in that area. He thinks that then each property owner would be giving up an equal share. He also asked if this is all that will be taken or will the utility companies also be coming back for additional utility easements. Ron Petrie said he does not have an answer to that question because at this point we don't know what the utilities will be doing. The utilities won't tell us what they are doing until we tell them what we are doing. So at some point we need to set the road and sidewalk alignments so we can get the plans to the utility companies. There is certainly the potential that beyond the right-of- way there will be additional easements. We just don't know at this point. Alderwoman Thiel asked Mr. Petrie if he had any answers to Mr. Hogget's other concerns. Ron Petrie said in order to ensure that the project looks and functions properly we are probably looking at reducing the sidewalk width from the bridge to the west from ten feet down to six or five feet, whichever the Committee feels comfortable with. He said when we get to the property to the east along College Avenue he thinks potentially in those areas the sidewalk will have to be adjacent to the curb. Where the auto sales business is it is very tight. Eventually the University will probably purchase this property as part of their master plan and then it could be redone. At this point he would say from the bridge westward to look at reducing the sidewalk width. Alderwoman Thiel said that this plan was once pretty much accepted by the neighborhood. She said we are looking at these changes largely because the University would like to widen out the strip east of the bridge. She believes there are some people here who haven't seen the original plans. She said it is frustrating to be starting over on this. However, there was going to be a major affect on property even in the original plan. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 6 of 18 Judith Paz said she lives on the south side. She said she thinks this is a great plan for this improvement. It has been too long and children have been in danger for a long time there. She said she did come to the meeting last week and the flood problem was discussed. Her concern is what is going to happen with the drainage. She showed a picture to highlight the problem. She said she is very glad this improvement is happening. She said when you turn on to Cato Springs Road from S. School, the canopy of trees you see is in front of her property. She said she would not want a sidewalk right up against the front of her house either, so she has a lot of empathy for the homeowners who have spoken. But she also doesn't want to lose some trees that will take two people to put their arms around. She said there are some ancient trees there. More importantly, she is concerned about what is going to happen with all the water. There are no curbs and gutters on Laverne and it is a problem. There are some real issues with drainage and water and where it is going to go. Kathleen Doss lives on Cato Springs Road. She asked if this is to be a sidewalk or a trail. Frank McIllwain said it is being engineered as a sidewalk. It is a concrete, ten -foot wide sidewalk. Kathleen Doss asked why it is ten feet wide. Frank McIllwain said it is a ten foot sidewalk in lieu of having six foot sidewalks on each side. So instead of twelve feet total for a linear foot of road it is ten feet. It is for both directions of pedestrian traffic. Kathleen Doss asked if all sidewalks are supposed to be six feet wide. Ron Petrie said the City Master Plan calls for five-foot sidewalks currently. He said all the bond issue projects had six-foot sidewalks. Kathleen Doss said her other concern is not to lose the trees. She also wondered if we make a beautiful and improved street if the City is going to really push to get the utilities put underground. She also added that most of the children on the west side of the bridge come from the north. They have no place to walk. We do need sidewalks and we do need curbs and gutters. We need improvement. She said she sees one truck going up and down Garland. It is difficult for her and her sons to get out of her driveway as it is, with the beginnings of the center turn lane it will be almost impossible. She said she feels for the north -side residents and doesn't understand why we have to have that much green space but she thinks if we can work together we can get this done. Marion Doss said he would urge anything to slow the traffic down on the street. The traffic moves too fast now and when we talk about turn lanes and widening, that just invites traffic to go faster. We need to bear in mind it is a residential area and he is for anything to slow the traffic down or make it safer to get on and off the street. That's his main concern with the three lanes. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 7 of 18 David Drueding apologized for arriving at the meeting late. He said he only found out a couple of hours ago that the property he owns on the corner of Vail and Cato Springs Road is going to be (according to his neighbor) dropped back twenty some feet back on the north side of Cato Springs Road. He said his building is set to avoid cutting down what he believes is the oldest cottonwood tree in Fayetteville. Friends at the University have said it is 120 years old. He really would like to not have a tree cut down that he spent several thousand dollars to build his building around it. Ron Petrie said the plan Mr. Drueding is looking at shows a ten -foot green space and a six-foot sidewalk. What we have talked about is shifting the road approximately four to five feet to the south and reducing the sidewalk width to six feet, pulling it all back a total of ten to eleven feet further to the south. He said it comes out to be about the existing right-of-way. David Drueding asked if this is not going to change what the easement is, then it is very different from what he was told. He said one of the things he would like to be considered is that there is an historically old tree here for which quite a bit of work has been done to maintain. There being no further comments, Alderman Jordan brought the discussion back to the Street Committee. Alderwoman Thiel said there was one additional couple present whose property on the east side of the bridge will be affected by this project. She doesn't think they want to speak and she wanted to speak for them. She said she and they had discussed this at length. Ron Petrie said this couple's comments were in the packet delivered to the committee members on Friday. Alderwoman Thiel, in looking at the map, corrected herself and said this couple actually lives on the west side, very close to the right-of-way. She said she thinks Ron mentioned possibly creating a different driveway for this couple. Ron Petrie said this is a residence that concerns him and he wants to make sure we do it right. Ultimately when we start looking at final grades (a lot of this is predicated on grades that we are a little unclear about at this stage in the design). This may be an area where we do want the sidewalk against the curb, bending it around this property and then back to where we are proposing it now. He said he doesn't have all the answers but he knows we need to look at this very closely. We need to have the grades established before we can make final decisions here. He said he thinks we can put the sidewalk in the existing right-of-way. Unfortunately the existing right-of-way is twenty feet from this house. Alderwoman Thiel said the other thing is if we are going to reduce the sidewalk on the west side down to six feet, it doesn't make sense to have the rest of it ten feet. If we go all the way to 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 8 of 18 School with six feet, that would take four more feet off what is affecting people on the east side. She said when the University visited with some of the aldermen individually about this proposal, there was some discussion of having no green space or very little green space in some of these areas. That would reduce the right-of-way even more than what was on the original plan. Ron Petrie agreed that was correct. Alderwoman Thiel said that original plan went through lots of review and the bond vote. Her suggestion is for the Committee to look at some of the revisions that have been suggested tonight at the next meeting. Alderman Jordan said he thinks it is good that everyone has come tonight to voice their concerns. He said everyone seems to be talking about reducing the sidewalk from ten feet to six feet and possibly reducing some of the green space. Alderwoman Thiel said she wants the City to work with the University whenever we can but they don't own all this property yet. At some point in the future some of these things will have to be adjusted whenever they buy the property. Entirely different improvements may need to be made to Cato Springs Road in twenty or thirty years. She wondered if we could hear from the University representative about this. Alderwoman Allen said this seems so problematic to so many people and it impacts so many people that it's not something we can sit here and hammer out. She thinks we need to start over again and figure out what we can do to answer as many needs of the citizens as possible. Mike Johnson from the University said he spent a lot of time with residents last week talking about this. He said the University's primary concern was to have three lanes east of bridge. He said they realize that the bridge is a major obstacle in looking at everything being three lanes east from Razorback to School. The reason for the need for three lanes is the development of property already owned by the University and the pending development in the Arkansas Research & Technology Park. He said they offered up additional University property so as to not put ten foot of green space and six foot of sidewalk on the south side of the road, which would literally take down almost the entire series of mature trees from the creek to School. West of the creek, the University has no "dog in that fight". It made sense to continue with ten feet of sidewalk if that is what people wanted. As he understands it, everything west of the creek is occurring within publicly owned right-of-way as it exists today. It is not on private property. He thinks some of that is not clear to folks. He said it is very uncomfortably close to some of the homes that were built very close to the City right-of-way. He said he has the same problem. He surveyed his property in town only to find that a third of his front yard lies within City right-of-way. He said should the city want to take it, it would be very uncomfortable and he would be right up there like these citizens saying similar things. He said the main thing for the University is the three lanes because of the traffic. One of those entrances would be a truck entrance and the other would be cars. The ultimate buildout would put a couple of more entrances in. He said the 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 9 of 18 University is very comfortable with what the City engineers are proposing, to go to the curb with the ten -foot sidewalk so we can step back ten feet from the existing houses. That would still allow for changes to be made somewhere in the future if the University buys the property. He said east of the creek it is three lanes and they are very comfortable with that. If we want to go with ten foot of greenspace and six feet of sidewalk on each side, that would be fine. We would lose a lot of trees on the south side in that case. One other thing that hasn't come up is that this road project is a huge benefit to the entire neighborhood, north and south, with the storm drainage that is being put in along with the curbs and gutters. He said they will work with the lady who has the periodically flooded property. He said he thinks they are looking at a larger culvert under Cato Springs and they are already looking at the creek that drains through their property into Town Branch, to do some cleaning in it to make sure it flows. Part of the problem is the fence along side the road right-of-way. It plugs up and backs up through the culvert under her property. He said they are working with this resident as we speak regardless of whether or not we go to work on the road tomorrow, just to be a good neighbor. Alderman Jordan restated his understanding of what had been discussed. On the far west side from where the bridge is back to Razorback Rd. we are looking at redesigning (or shifting) the road, which would save about ten feet and would put the property owners on the east side around twenty five feet from where it starts. Next, he said he believes we are looking at reducing the sidewalk width to six feet. Alderwoman Thiel said she is not real crazy about the idea because we are spending a lot in improving this and eliminating a sidewalk on one side. The idea was to make up the difference on the other side. And as Mr. Johnson pointed out, everything west of the bridge is in the existing right-of-way. But she said when the University discussed this with her the idea was that for some of those properties impacted on either side of the existing ART? we would reduce the green space. Alderman Jordan asked where we are going to start doing away with the green space. Alderwoman Thiel said from Cline over to the bridge and then down at the other corner. Everything else is owned by the University. She said if we keep the ten -foot sidewalk on that entire section but eliminate the green space altogether, then that would be less right-of-way than we were taking with the original plan. Ron Petrie said it would be six feet less. Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't know that she is altogether ready to do away with the ten - foot sidewalk idea. She thinks that sidewalk is needed for the children out there. Maybe eight feet would work but she is uncomfortable with going all the way down to a six-foot sidewalk. Alderman Jordan said he doesn't have much problem with it from the railroad tracks on but as we've heard from several property owners on that west side they have some problems. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 10 of 18 There was some discussion regarding the locations of ten -foot sidewalks versus six-foot sidewalks. Alderwoman Allen said she believes we should table this because we cannot solve it here. Maybe the engineers could come back with some possible scenarios that would work with the suggestions heard tonight. She said we cannot sit here and get this designed this evening and there are too many people displeased with the design, with valid reasons. Alderman Ferrell said he agrees. He said there have been a lot of people with a lot of different ideas tonight. And they are all valid concerns. At the end of the day, he believes it is a very good idea to try to come up with the best plan we can. But it is not going to be a plan to please everyone 100%. Alderman Jordan said we can look at this again in another three weeks, review the design again and open it up again for the public. We'll just keep thrashing along until we thrash something out. Ron Petrie asked if we might want to schedule the next meeting before all the residents leave so they'll know when to come back. It was agreed that the next Street Committee meeting would be scheduled for Monday, August 20, 2007 at 4:30 p.m. B. General Update of the Street Bond Program Chris Brown displayed the updated schedule of the Street Bond Program. He said a progress report was distributed with the agenda packet. He said we are about 90% complete on the traffic calming construction. The only thing left is the construction of one more landscaped island at Ila and Vandeventer. That intersection has been demolished and is ready to install. He said we are about two months into this project and four months were projected for construction so we are well ahead of the construction schedule. He said we are probably about a month behind with the improvements to Gregg Avenue and the intersection at North Street. Staff has been working with a property owner at the corner of North and Gregg to try to hammer out some details with relocating and reinstalling a wall. That project will be out to bid in the next two months. This is a pretty complicated area with the large wall and relocating the signal in that area. He said on the Mt. Comfort Rd. project Garver Engineers has begun the preliminary phase of the design as was recently authorized. In about two to three months probably we will begin acquisition at the intersection up near I540 to acquire some of the rights-of-way. We are continuing with preliminary design on Zion Road. We have sent out offers of compensation for rights-of-way and easements to almost all of the property owners. We have received one signed easement in return. That project is scheduled to be bid this fall. Staff is working on scheduling a public meeting on the College Avenue project. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 11 of 18 Brenda Thiel said she wants to know when that meeting is scheduled. She would like for at least one of the public meetings to be scheduled somewhere like the senior center that would accommodate people who live in that neighborhood. She said she has received a lot of emails about closing South College and residents are very concerned about that. She has only heard from one person who is in favor of closing it. Chris Brown agreed to that. He continued with updates on the projects that the AHTD is designing and constructing. AHTD has told staff that they will be starting on field surveys on the Hwy. 16 project beginning this fall. The construction is still scheduled for 2009. Field surveys are also scheduled for this fall for Garland Ave. (Hwy 112) from North St. to Melmar and construction is scheduled for 2009. Alderman Jordan asked if Mr. Brown sees any major problem in the projects that are a little behind schedule. Chris Brown said we are about a month behind on the Gregg Avenue project but we have a much longer construction time planned in there so we should be able to finish the construction on time. The only other possible problem is Mt. Comfort. It took us a couple of months to get through the approval of the concept design. But we do still plan on meeting the proposed construction schedules. We will make up some of the lost time in the next phase of the design. Ron Petrie said this chart is somewhat confusing because the gaps in the bottom line really don't mean a great deal. The black line and the red line are the really relevant items for a true comparison. The gaps in the bottom (yellow) line just tell us how long it took us to do the acquisition on the engineering, the preliminary design, etc. The gap would be all the public meetings and the next line would be the next stage. He said he and his staff have talked about redoing the chart a little to clear up some of the confusion. Alderman Jordan said it is good to see the chart every month and it is good for the people to see it. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said the Gregg Avenue project is being handled exclusively by AHTD. It is not a part of the transportation bond program. However he said the higher side will be the roadway level all the way across. Adjacent to the park there will be a six-foot retaining wall that replaces the fence. 4. Discussion of a request from the developers of the Crystal Springs Subdivision to jointly utilize the planned Raven Lane crossing of Clabber Creek for a golf cart path that is associated with the Razorback Golf Course. Ron Petrie said this is a fairly unique request but certainly one worth considering. He said he has been talking to the new owners of the Razorback Golf Course for some time on several 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 12 of 18 different issues. The Crystal Springs subdivision surrounds the golf course on three sides. He said concern was expressed to him where they have the existing crossing over Clabber Creek. He said this is a homemade deal that looks like a flat bed truck. It would not meet any type of regulation. He knew there will be a substantial structure built across Clabber Creek with Raven Lane, a street that connects Mt. Comfort into the Crystal Springs subdivision and which is classified as a collector street. The developer and the owners of Razorback Golf Course got together and are requesting that, keeping the lanes separate, we use a part of the right-of-way on this structure for the golf carts to cross Clabber Creek. It is within our right-of-way and it requires Street Committee or City Council approval to use that right-of-way. From an engineering standpoint it makes sense. He said you would not want a structure this size replicated a hundred feet from the original. And that is really what it would take to get something across the creek at that point. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said we would have to clarify who would maintain the structure. We would want to make sure that the golf course is required to maintain it. Brett Watson with Engineering Design Associates, the firm who submitted the design for this request said he is available for questions. Alderwoman Thiel asked if the City would own this and have to maintain it after it is built. Brett Watson said it would be the same maintenance as the sidewalk would be. They are basically going to be side by side. The golf course would pay to maintain their six-foot portion of this. Alderwoman Thiel asked if this would be in writing since this is so unusual. Greg Edwards, one of the developers of Crystal Springs introduced himself. He said Ron Cavenaugh, the owner of the golf course could not be here tonight so Mr. Edwards is speaking for him also. Alderman Thiel said as long as they maintain this and we have it in writing, she agrees with Mr. Petrie that it makes sense to have it there rather than built somewhere else later. Alderwoman Lucas asked if the golf carts would go over the bridge. Brett Watson said they would. Alderwoman Lucas asked what the City's liability would be with a golf cart going across there if it were to be hit by a car. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 13 of 18 Alderman Ferrell asked if there would be a separation between the City's right-of-way and the golf cart path Ron Petrie said he doesn't believe the plans show any but it is something we can consider. It is probably something that the golf course would like to keep other people from going over to the golf course. He doesn't think they would be opposed to some type of decorative fence division. Alderwoman Allen asked if there is anything comparable to this anywhere else in the City. Ron Petrie said there may be but he doesn't know for certain. He said the Stonebridge Golf Course uses the public road quite often for their golf course but the situation isn't exactly like this. Alderman Ferrell said he agrees with Mr. Petrie that this makes sense. He asked Mr. Watson and Mr. Edwards if what we are discussing, putting some kind of separation between the two roads, is something they could agree to. Both Mr. Watson and Mr. Edwards agreed to this. Alderman Ferrell asked if they are agreeable to a written agreement that the golf course would be responsible for the maintenance of this road. Greg Edwards said he didn't think that would be a problem. Alderwoman Thiel said she would like to make sure that the liability issues have been worked out with the City Attorney and that the agreement to maintain it is in writing. Alderman Jordan said there is a Ward 4 meeting next Monday. This proposal might be brought to that meeting to get comments. Ron Petrie said he will talk to the City Attorney also. The item was tabled until after the Ward 4 meeting and after Mr. Petrie has a chance to talk to the City Attorney. Presentation of the proposed improvements at the Rupple Road and Wellington Road intersection associated with The Links PZD development Ron Petrie said in association with The Links project which the City Council recently approved the City had an agreement with Mr. Lindsey. One part of that agreement was that the City was responsible for purchasing right-of-way. The one thing we have to nail down at this stage is what cross section we want so that process can begin. He said we are dealing with only the part from Wedington to The Links property and there are two properties in between. One property is a 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 14 of 18 shopping center on the corner and the other is a storage unit facility. What we have proposed for this is a five -lane street with eleven -foot lanes and with a six-foot sidewalk adjacent to the curb. If we go with that cross section, we will still have to purchase a couple of feet of right-of-way in one area and somewhere in the neighborhood of six feet of right-of-way across the storage unit area. The documents show them to own to the center of the existing road and we would have some prescriptive right-of-way. He said any widening we do is going to require purchasing right- of-way. A rough cost is estimated to be around $10,000 for the purchase of the right-of-way. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said there would be only one sidewalk at this time, on the east side of the road. He pointed out that once we make this transition back to the boulevard, we will have the fourteen -foot wider lane so we are giving up that wide outside lane for bike traffic unless we go back and purchase even more right-of-way. That is a decision that will have to be made — do we want the sidewalk adjacent to the curb, do we want it six feet wide or do we want an even wider (14 -ft.) outside lane to match the rest of Rupple Road. Alderwoman Thiel said it really concerns her not to have some green space between the sidewalk and the street at the intersection of Rupple and Wedington. She said there really is a good reason for having green space. Though a lot of people feel like it is a waste to have to maintain, if they were ever walking on those sidewalks, they would appreciate that little two or three feet of buffer that protects them. South School Street is a nightmare. Alderman Jordan said he walks Razorback Road from that four-way stop and it's bad. Alderwoman Thiel asked how much more we are talking about if we add four feet of green space. Ron Petrie said to keep in mind he is giving the Committee extremely rough numbers. As an educated guess he would say it would cost approximately $10,000 more. In response to a question from Alderwoman Lucas, Ron Petrie said with the design showing no green space, it is approximately twenty feet from the sidewalk to the commercial building and approximately thirty feet from the edge of the sidewalk to the storage unit. It would be reduced to sixteen feet and twenty six feet with the additional green space. Alderwoman Thiel said for the safety we're talking about she would prefer this. Alderman Jordan said he doesn't disagree with that. Alderwoman Allen said she agrees completely. Alderman Ferrell wondered where we would get the money. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 15 of 18 Ron Petrie said we have a half million dollars that was set aside for Rupple Road from Wedington and Mt. Comfort. We were going to use those dollars to do the south side but since we've delayed that project, he would anticipate using a small portion of that money for this. Alderman Ferrell moved that we move forward with the plan for four foot green space, six- foot sidewalk and eleven foot lanes. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 6. Discussion of the possible future street improvements to be included in the 2008- 2012 Capital Improvement Program. Ron Petrie said there is a lot left to discuss on this issue from the last meeting. He put together a memo looking at possible projects for the CIP. He said our budget division has directed staff to give them their list of projects for the CIP. Budget gives each division a somewhat fuzzy picture of how many dollars they have to work with. Engineering has been given the figure of $5.8 million for a five-year span for streets. Engineering will give a list of projects to the budget division who will put those and other division's lists together into one document and send that to the full City Council. The Council may decide to push some things back to the Street Committee and some things back to the Water & Sewer Committee for further discussion. Mr. Petrie is asking for the Street Committee's help on what to at least initially show in the document for budget. At the last meeting we discussed various projects. Mr. Petrie listed six that were discussed: Huntsville Ave., College Ave., Mission Blvd., various intersection improvements, Rupple & Mt. Comfort Intersection and also a small portion of Wedington Ave. by the Catfish Hole. He assigned total dollar amounts to each project. Other things to consider would be street cost shares, traffic calming, and a GPS unit. He said the Engineering Division has a survey crew that uses ten-year old technology and at some point this equipment has to be replaced. This is around a $30,000 request and something to be considered. He also listed a few other things to consider. He said in talking about intersections, sixteen projects were identified in our master transportation plan. Those projects are included on this list. He said eleven out of the sixteen are complete or are in our current bond program. He said of those that aren't done, some have a legitimate reason for not being done and some have just never made it to the surface. Maple & Mission was actually a project that was considered and discarded. He told the Committee that of the $5.8 million, the majority will be in the last three years of the CIP (2010-2012). He said in two years we will completely redo the CIP. That gives us some assurance that what we do today will be reconsidered before it gets done. He also talked about the STIP (State Transportation Imp. Program). He said the current STIP is for 2007 — 2010, a four-year program, which means there are two years that will be in our CIP for which the STIP has not yet been developed. He said he doesn't want the Committee to think he is sold on every one of these projects but he wanted to put something together to begin the discussion. He explained how much was budgeted for each project, with approximately $1.5 million for the three largest projects (Huntsville, Mission and College). He said he realizes this amount is insufficient to build these streets but we are looking at either using it as seed money for future State projects in 2011 or 2012, or if that doesn't work, doing parts of each project. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 16 of 18 Alderwoman Thiel said she thinks this looks good. She said she thinks there has been a lot more discussion about the Huntsville project than there has been about the Mission project. She said we're not going to get matching funds for any of these projects for a few years. She hopes Huntsville is still being targeted to get the State involved. Ron Petrie said this gives us something to begin that discussion. We will have some commitment from the City already that will help us in our discussions with the State. Alderwoman Thiel said she just wants to make sure that this continues to be targeted because it is really getting to be an issue. Mission needs improvement but Huntsville is bumper to bumper. Alderman Ferrell said many of the people in Ward 3 understand there are problems on Huntsville and they really like the new intersection and signalization on Huntsville & 15th St. He said he knows Mr. Petrie had to come up with something and he appreciates this list. He said he wants to get Mission Street into the mill. He knows it has to be something we get some common ground on. You've got people on one side who are going to need some persuasion and people on the other side that are screaming for it. If we have it on the list and can talk about it that's a step. He said he wants to look at it and move forward with the will of the people, hopefully get everyone together on it. It is a bad problem. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment on any issue that has been discussed by the Committee. Charles Axtel said he lives between Gregg Ave. & Vandeventer on Cleburn. He said on the majority of his family's trips they go out Vandeventer to North Street. His concern is a hedge row that obscures the visibility of a car trying to pull out. He said when he called the City, engineers Sid Norbash and Chris Brown came out and both agreed there is a problem. He showed two pictures taken from his car stopped at the stop sign and of his car stopped beyond the stop sign. Ron Petrie said he has an appointment to talk to the property owner. Charles Axtel said the property owner has been adamantly against doing anything with the hedgerow. In the past people have been able to inch out and cars have been able to go around them. But now the new traffic island forces the cars into the vehicle trying to inch out. He said he knows the neighborhood association approved the island but they never solicited comment from him. However, he said the island is actually a secondary issue. His primary concern is the lack of visibility. People pulling out cannot see oncoming traffic and the oncoming traffic cannot see them. He said he has tried to work something out with the property owner but they are adamantly against touching the hedgerow. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 17 of 18 Ron Petrie said he has been by here and it certainly is a legitimate concern that we need to address. Staff will look at the options Charles Axtel said for some reason Code Enforcement deferred the issue until he (Mr. Axtel) came to the Committee meeting tonight. He said he thinks they thought he wanted the island removed. He said he is concerned about the island because down the road he doesn't know how a big truck is going to make that corner. But the island has only forced the issue with the hedgerow. They have been inching out for years but now he has had three near -wrecks in three weeks. The island is throwing traffic into the people trying to pull out. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said two islands have been completed and another is being constructed. Alderman Ferrell asked if this hedgerow goes from private property onto City right-of-way. Ron Petrie said that it does. Alderman Ferrell asked if the neighborhood association has informally visited with the property owner. Charles Axtel said no. He said he loves the fact that the City solicits information from the neighborhood associations but he never heard anything from the neighborhood association on the traffic island. Though he thinks it's great for the neighborhood associations to have input, he thinks there needs to be some procedures to make sure that those affected by those decisions are also solicited for information. A yard sign or something would be good. Again he said he isn't sure why he had to come to the Street Committee. He feels it is really a code issue and they should just do something about it. Ron Petrie said he will meet with the property owner and report back to the Street Committee how it can be resolved at the next meeting. Alderwoman Thiel said she thought we were going to install one traffic circle and then wait a little bit before the next was put in. Though this is not her ward, she heard from people in the ward who have some issues with the circles. But we're plugging right along and these are costly. Ron Petrie said we are putting in three and they are really the same cost as a speed table. Chris Brown said there was really about three weeks to a month between the first and second circles. The feedback they got with the first one was either that they really liked it or they took a "wait and see" attitude. He said they didn't get any negative feedback. Ron Petrie said we want to finish the contract. These were put in experimentally. He said in his opinion they do an extremely good job slowing down traffic. From all the research he has done 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 6, 2007 Page 18 of 18 he said it could be used by fire trucks and trash trucks. In some instances they may have to drive up on the curb and that is the way it was designed. But it is an experiment. The speed tables aren't perfect either. The emergency vehicles have to slow down to get across them also. He believes three traffic circles is still a reasonable number for an experiment. Alderman Ferrell asked Alderwoman Allen if she had begun to get much feedback from her ward citizens. Alderwoman Allen said Mr. Axtel is the only one she had heard anything negative from. Some others are a little ambivalent and still others think they are great. She said she had been somewhat ambivalent about them but her major concern was the emergency vehicles. Alderman Jordan asked if there was any other business. Ron Petrie said that although there was no formal vote, he understood that everyone was okay with the CIP list he had brought forward. The Committee agreed to the list. Scheduling of the next Street Committee Meeting The next Street Committee meeting will be held on Monday, August 20, 2007 at 4:30 p.m. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org