HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-03-12 MinutesCity Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 1 of 8
Member Aldermen
Mayor Dan Coody Ward 1 Position l — Brenda Thiel
a e ev 1 le Ward 2 Position 2 —Nancy Allen
City Attorney Kit Williams Ward 3 Position 2—Robert Ferrell
Ward 4 Position 2 -Lioneld Jordan
City Clerk Sondra Smith i
ARKANSAS
City of Fayetteville Arkansas
City Council Street Committee
Meeting Minutes
March 12, 2007
A meeting of the Fayetteville City Council Street Committee was held on March 12, 2007 at 4:30
p.m. in Room 326 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Alderman Lioneld Jordan, Chair; Alderwoman Nancy Allen;
Alderwoman Brenda Thiel
Other Council Members Present: Alderwoman Shirley Lucas
Staff Present: Ron Petrie, Chris Brown, Gary Dumas, Susan Thomas, Paul Becker, Terry
Gulley, Tim Conklin
1. Call to order
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lioneld Jordan.
2. Approval of the minutes for the February 5, 2007 and February 12, 2007 Street
Committee Meetings
Alderwoman Brenda Thiel moved that the minutes to the February 5, 2007 and February 12,
2007 Street Committee meetings be approved as submitted. Alderwoman Nancy Allen seconded
the motion and it passed unanimously.
3. Transportation Bond Program Update
A. Presentation of the preliminary drawings for the Gregg Avenue and North
Street Intersection Improvements and the Gregg Ave. Traffic Calming
between North Street and Prospect Street by CEI Engineering Associates
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 2 of 8
Chris Brown presented the concept plan as developed by CEI Engineering Associates in a series
of slides. He pointed out where the proposed median would be installed along Gregg Ave. and
Prospect and where the proposed speed tables would be. He also pointed out where an additional
right -turn lane for southbound traffic would be located on the north side of Gregg Ave. He said
part of the project would involve milling and overlaying the entire section of Gregg Avenue as
shown on this plan. He said the proposed median would be three feet wide, leaving ten -foot travel
lanes (from the median to the face of the gutter). He said the plan is for some sort of decorative
median and he showed a few of the options for finishes that are available. (The cobblestone look
was most popular with the committee members). Another slide presented the typical section for
the widening on the west side of North Street. He said we would be adding about eight feet of
concrete for a south bound right -turn lane.
Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment There being none, he brought the
discussion back to the Committee.
Chris Brown said staff and CEI will proceed on with the design. The plan is to bid the project in
the third quarter of this year. He said we are on schedule for this project.
B. General update of the Street Bond Program
Chris Brown presented the latest traffic calming plan for Wilson Park. He said staff is still
working with the neighborhood association to finalize the plan. This process has taken a little
longer than was expected so the project is about a month behind schedule. He hopes to get the
project bid very soon. He presented a slide showing the five traffic circles (or landscaped islands).
He said staff is still trying to make a final determination about exactly where the traffic circles will
be located (if they are done at all). He said on March 13 staff will set out traffic cones at Woolsey
and Cleburne to do a mockup of a traffic circle at that intersection. He said mockups have already
been done at Clebum and Vandeventer and Ila and Vandeventer and staff did receive some
comments from the public regarding those.
In response to a question from Alderwoman Allen, Ron Petrie said they received four or five
fairly negative comments. But the neighborhood association president who lives on Ila said he is in
favor of the traffic circles. The NA president said he believes the residents of Ila want the islands
and that the negative comments came from people who don't live on the street. So staff is
receiving some mixed signals. Because of the time it takes to get a project like this bid out,
approved through the Council, etc. staff is considering bidding the project out as a unit price and
working out the details of location later. He said he will be meeting with the Council of
Neighborhoods on March 15 to discuss the project in more detail.
In response to a question from Alderwoman Allen, Chris Brown said the diameter of the traffic
circles is around 15 to 16 feet. He said emergency vehicles and larger vehicles will be able to
navigate through but will have to slow down some. The design is such that there is a 2 ft.
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 3 of 8
mountable curb around the area and larger vehicles (emergency vehicles and trash trucks) will
probably have to go up on the curb in these areas
Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment.
Glen Sowder mentioned the speed of traffic going south on Gregg Avenue, south of North Street.
He also said he wasn't aware that there were speeding problems on Woolsey, Park and
Vandeventer but saw from these plans that there must be.
There being no further comments, the discussion was returned to the Committee.
Chris Brown said staff has hit a little snag with the design of the Garland Avenue project. It has
taken a little longer than expected to gather some of the information and get some of the design
criteria worked out. He said we had planned on finishing the project ahead of time anyway so we
are still in good shape. We will be able to make up the time lost on design and meet the original
schedule to bid the project at least by mid to late 2008.
Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment.
Glenn David Wilson said that in previous presentations there has been a conceptual plat that
shows a revised West Mt. Comfort Rd. (the part north of Harps) cutting across three residences,
across James St. and onto his property north of Harps, the Lots property. He said his concern is
that at the last presentation of the bond program a slide was shown of this concept and the same
slide has been shown several other times. He said he doesn't remember anything about it being a
conceptual plat.
Alderman Jordan said he would make a statement right now that it was indeed a conceptual plat.
Glenn David Wilson said his concern is that by showing that conceptual plat, it reduces the
number of calls he will get for the Lots property at the corner of James Street and West Mt.
Comfort Rd. If every time the bond issue projects are discussed a plan is presented showing the
road going across this property it will reduce the market for the property. He said he has received
an all-time low number of calls on the property. He said the slide has been shown several times on
television and he thinks it is available on the intemet. He understands that the roadway is not
actually a part of the bond program and that there is no funding for it. He wondered what can be
done to get this particular slide out of the plans. He doesn't believe the road is going to be built but
it is difficult for him to convince a prospect of that.
Alderman Jordan said his understanding is that these are all conceptual plans. Nothing has been
finalized. He suggested that Mr. Petrie get together with Mr. Wilson to discuss the issue and see if
anything can be done.
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 4 of 8
Chris Brown said that we are shooting for a possible March 29 public meeting on Zion Road.
Nothing has been finalized yet but when a date, time and place have been established, staff will get
letters out to all the property owners and others involved.
4. Discussion of the appeal by the developer of the Wedington Circle PZD of the
Planning Commission condition to require the internal streets to be privately owned
and maintained within the Wedington Circle Development
Ron Petrie said this is a request from the developers and not City staff. He presented a slide of the
development. He said this is very close to what was approved by the Planning Commission and
very similar to the PZD approved by the City Council. Staff has some concerns about the
configuration of a major road within the development called Triangle Street. He said staff concerns
with the layout presented on the slide revolve around the grade and how close the two intersections
are to one another. Staff recommendation to the Planning Commission was that if this layout was
approved then Triangle Street should be a private drive. He said staff would like for it to be a
public street but cannot recommend that because of concerns with the safety of the radius of the
curves and this intersection. Planning Commission approved staff s request that it be a private
drive. The developer is requesting that the City rethink the issue and make the drive a public
street. The developers have submitted revised drawings, proposing to take away the T intersection
and replace it with a curve. The curve would have a radius of 41 feet according to the revised plan.
The City regulations for minimum street standards would require 150 ft. center line radius. So the
proposed curve would be considerably less than what is considered the minimum. Mr. Petrie said
the City has been approving some waivers from that minimum for some residential subdivisions
where the traffic volume will be less than 300 vehicles per day.
In response to a question from Alderman Jordan, Ron Petrie said this development would have
296 residential units and 16,000 sq. feet of space for commercial or civic use. The projected traffic
is projected to be 3100 vehicles per day. He said staff could not recommend that this be a public
street, even with the revision proposed.
Alderwoman Thiel asked Mr. Petrie if there is any way this can be reconfigured to make it
acceptable.
Ron Petrie said it is his opinion that the road design was a secondary consideration to the
placement of the buildings on the site. He said it is a very nice development and very well put
together but because the road was secondary, the entrance is being squeezed in. The buildings
should be reconfigured so that the street will meet the City's street standards.
Alderman Jordan asked for input from the developers.
Steve Mansfield said the actual location of the entrance to the development is being dictated by
the State Highway Dept.. That is the only place they will allow an entrance. He said the problem
with a PZD is that the developer is trying to use the "last choice" land to accomplish the infill and
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 5 of 8
create the urban type developments that we're trying to build in Fayetteville. That leaves you
making concessions and trying to do the best project possible given the site. In this case the
developers believe they have done the best they can to fit the buildings onto the site in such a way
as to create a nice community. They have tried to address all the concerns of City staff and this
street issue is the last one to be addressed. Today they would like to ask the Committee if it is
possible to keep the design in place, knowing that it does not meet every City requirement for a
public street. He said it is important to recognize that there are other places in the City where there
are digressions from full compliance with these requirements. To address the City's safety
concern, they have discussed the possibility of posting slower speed limits and alternative ways to
deal with the problem other than redesign.
Tom Jefcoat, Milholland Engineers explained what changes had been made to the original
design to help make the entrance intersections a little safer. He said they took out the "T"
intersection after entering off Wedington. The road to the right becomes a driveway into the
parking lot rather than a street. He said the real concern is that the radius of the curve going to the
left is 41 feet, back to back with the next 100 ft. radius curve. He showed a map on which he had
highlighted similar configurations of streets in the City which are not in compliance with full City
ordinances.
Greg House said their feeling is that if as a community we want to encourage infill development
we have to realize that only the worst pieces of ground are left — or you have to buy property with
buildings that have to be torn down. It is rare that you find a flat spot in town that will meet all the
City requirements; those areas have already been developed. He understood that part of the PZD
process was to allow a mechanism for the City Council to look at a project to see if we can make it
work, possibly tweaking some ordinances to encourage it. He said they have met all the other
requirements on this development except this street radius problem and they are asking for the City
to waive this requirement. He said the street will be used the same way, whether it is a public street
or a private street.
Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't see this as being used much as a public street — comparing it
to The Cliffs and the widening of Happy Hollow. She said she likes the project but she has an issue
with the entrance onto Wedington. It will be difficult for the traffic to see clearly enough to safely
get onto Wedington. She asked why the developers want the City to take the street.
Steve Mansfield pointed out that one of the changes made on the plan was that exiting onto
Wedington would be right -turn only. He said making a left turn at that point with the sight
problems was a major concern and that was addressed. He said there is an ordinance on the books
that says that any street connecting two public streets is a public street. Also, he said as owners of
the property they will pay taxes to maintain the street, lighting, sidewalks, etc. He said they have
already accepted some of that cost by agreeing that the side streets would be private. He said every
additional burden that is placed on the tenants or owners takes away from the feasibility of the
project. The developers believe the maintenance of this street belongs with the City.
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 6 of 8
Tom Jefcoat talked about the costs of street lighting which would require private meters, the
maintenance of street landscaping, etc
In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Greg House said retail space had been
designed along the main street. He said the numbers barely work on the project. If they have to
start minimizing buildings or commercial space, the project won't be feasible. He said they have
looked very hard at placement of buildings, etc.
Alderwoman Allen said it is a very good looking project and the kind of thing the City has
expressed a desire to have. But she also has concerns about the little street going onto Wedington.
She asked if every option had been explored to widen it.
Steve Mansfield said it is really the radius of the curve that is the problem, not the width of the
street. The only way to reduce the radius is to reduce the density of the project and the numbers
just don't work on an indoor corridor project. Changing the radius would effectively force them to
go back to the drawing board again and most likely end up with an outdoor corridor type project.
Greg House said they would not be here if it wasn't for Mr. Petrie's concern with the back-to-
back curves. Going in and out of Wedington is not the concern.
Ron Petrie clarified that it is not the back-to-back turns but the radius of the first turn that
concerns him.
Alderwoman Lucas said she believes there will be more traffic on this street than we realize
because of the commercial planned there. The curve situation concerns her. She wondered if the
City would be taking on liability if we accept the street as it is when our regulations require a
larger radius.
Ron Petrie said anytime you vary from an ordinance, especially an ordinance dealing with streets
you potentially open yourself up to some liability. He said he is an engineer and not a lawyer, but
that is the way he understands it. He said we should probably get some direction from the City
Attorney.
In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said the ordinance states that this
street is not acceptable and he recommends against it. He said the acceptable radius is 150 ft. The
second curve is 100 ft. and if we were looking at that with the first curve, we could at least
consider it. He said he just doesn't feel comfortable with the 41 ft. radius.
Alderman Jordan said he doesn't see any reason to deviate from what the Planning Commission
approved. It needs to be a private street if there is that much of a deviation from the ordinances.
Tom Jefcoat said if the street remains private, there should be some consideration regarding who
is going to maintain the street lights, tree plantings, and provide maintenance in bad weather. If
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 7 of 8
some of those things were taken care of by the City, maybe the private street would not be such an
issue.
In response to a question from Alderman Thiel, Ron Petrie said there are fewer ordinances that
would have to be waived with this plan than with the previous plan. He said he isn't sure which
plan is preferable.
Tom Jefcoat said one of the conditions of approval of the PZD was that Triangle Street would be
considered as a public or private street at a later date. The other streets were going to be private
anyway. The decision has not been made that Triangle will be a private street. That decision was
delayed.
Alderman Jordan said that is what he remembers also. He said that staff and the Planning
Commission have both recommended that it be private.
Alderwoman Thiel said before she feels comfortable making a decision, the issue of potential
liability needs to be addressed.
Alderwoman Allen again said she thinks the development looks good and she would like to see us
be able to do it. She also has safety concerns about waiving something this different from the
minimum requirements. She just keeps thinking something needs to be changed that would make it
work.
Steve Mansfield said they have looked at moving things around. He said if it was a matter of
moving three or six units that would be one thing. But to increase the radius of the curve to meet
City standards they would be losing half of one of the three big buildings on the property and there
is no place to replace them.
Alderman Jordan said it really comes down to whether we make this a public or private street.
He doesn't see any way that the project can be reconfigured.
Alderman Jordan opened the floor to public comment.
Glenn David Wilson questioned if the remaining area along Wedington west of the designed
entrance is out of bounds.
Steve Mansfield said that everything from where the buildings are positioned to Wedington
belongs to the Arkansas Highway Dept. Where the entrance is shown on the plans is the only site
the Highway Dept. would allow it to be.
Ron Petrie asked if anyone had asked the Highway Dept. if they would allow the driveway to be
moved if it is made "right-in/right-out".
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org
City Council Street Committee Minutes
March 12, 2007
Page 8 of 8
Tom Jefcoat said AHTD knows the configuration. He explained that there is a conglomeration of
water lines and other utilities in this area that limit the location.
Alderman Jordan thanked the developers for their time and said when more information is
available regarding the liability issues the item will be discussed again.
Steve Mansfield said they would also provide information about other city streets that are the
same as the one being proposed.
Ron Petrie said the item is already on the Council agenda.
5. Scheduling of the next Street Committee Meeting
No time was scheduled for the next Street Committee meeting at this time.
113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax)
accessfayetteville.org