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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-08-18 Minutes (2)City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 1 of 10 Member Aldermen Mayor Dan Coody+ le Ward 1 Position l — Brenda Thiel T��TV 1 T yWard 2 Position 2 — Nancy Allen CityAttorney Kit Williams L/Ward 3 Position 2—Robert Ferrell 1Ward 4 Position 2 - Lioneld Jordan City Clerk Sondra Smith ARKANSAS City of Fayetteville Arkansas City Council Street Committee Meeting Minutes August 18, 2008 A meeting of the Fayetteville City Council Street Committee was held on August 18, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. in Room 326 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street, Fayetteville, Arkansas. Members Present: Alderman Lioneld Jordan, Chair; Alderwoman Nancy Allen, Alderman Robert Ferrell, Alderwoman Brenda Thiel Staff Present: Ron Petrie, Chris Brown, Gary Dumas, Terry Gulley, Mayor Dan Coody Call to Order Chairman Lioneld Jordan called the meeting to order. 1. Approval of minutes from the June 23, 2008 Street Committee meefinE Alderwoman Allen moved that the minutes to the Street Committee meeting held on June 23, 2008 be approved as submitted. Alderman Ferrell seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 2. Garland Avenue (North Street to Melmar): Presentation of preliminary plans and cost estimates provided by the Arkansas Highway & Transportation Department. This item was tabled at the May 12 and June 23, 2008 meetings. Ron Petrie said this item was tabled in order to allow time for Alderwoman Allen and Alderman Cook to get input from residents at a Ward 2 meeting. This also allowed staff to look at various options for the Mt. Comfort Rd. intersection. Mr. Petrie showed a slide of the original concept for Garland Avenue that was approved by the Council. The concept shows a five -lane section with wide bike lanes and six-foot sidewalks. The AHTD came back with a plan for a five -lane section with a 10 -ft. sidewalk and 6 -ft. green space on one side and 5 -ft. sidewalk and 3 -ft. green space on the other side. This was the concept shown at the AHTD public meeting. Mr. Petrie 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 2 of 10 mentioned the Sidewalk & Trails Committee proposal to have trails and narrower sidewalks. He said the general consensus coming from those at the Ward 2 meeting was that a three -lane section would be preferable to five -lanes. He said staff has had some discussion with the AHTD about developing a computer model for this section to see what the traffic would look like with three lanes, with four lanes and with five lanes. The AHTD said it would probably take about two months to provide this model. A separate issue is the Mt. Comfort Road intersection and Mr. Petrie asked Chris Brown to review the options for this intersection. Chris Brown showed slides of the current AHTD design for this intersection. Staff also looked at four other concepts and Mr. Brown reviewed them with the Committee, pointing out structures that would have to be removed with each design. Alderwoman Thiel asked which of the concepts would be least expensive. Alderwoman Allen added she would like to know which would have the least impact on existing structures. Chris Brown said Concept C probably has the least amount of roadway. Alderwoman Thiel mentioned that there is an advantage to tying into Holly Street, which Concept C does not do. The Committee looked at the different concepts again to get a clearer idea of the differences. Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't particularly like the AHTD plan but it doesn't affect any businesses. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment. Glenn David Wilson commented on several concerns he has with the AHTD design. He compared the design to a new paint job on an old car. He believes this design is dangerous to pedestrians, bicyclists and vehicles. He believes the further north we put the intersection, the safer it will be. Alderwoman Thiel said Mr. Wilson made a very valid point that the intersection needs to be further north, closer to Holly Street. Alderman Ferrell asked which of the other alternatives Mr. Wilson prefers. Glenn David Wilson talked about other possible configurations but said he likes either Concept A or D which connect with Holly. There was no further public comment regarding the Mt. Comfort intersection. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 3 of 10 Ron Petrie said if the Committee has an opinion on which option is preferred, staff can give that information to the AHTD and they could give us some true cost comparisons and possibly factor it in on their computer model. Alderwoman Thiel said she likes both Concept A and D and asked which would cost more. Chris Brown said Concept A has more length of street. Alderwoman Thiel said she likes Concept D. Alderwoman Allen moved approval of Concept D. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion. Alderman Ferrell asked staff if there are any downsides to either of these concepts from an engineering or safety point of view. Ron Petrie said he couldn't think of anything that had not already been discussed. He said the AHTD can give us a good idea of the cost differences. He said he has always thought lining the road up to Holly was a good idea. Alderman Ferrell asked how much additional traffic we anticipate will be channeled to Holly Street and if that increased traffic will necessitate additional expenditures on Holly Street. Ron Petrie said that is definitely something that needs to be evaluated. In response to a question from Mayor Coody, Ron Petrie said extending Holly Street straight to the west brings it too close to the Fuzzy's building to leave them any parking. The same situation applies to the building to the south. The road was planned to try to save at least one building. Mayor Coolly said his concern is that the area will redevelop some day but once we do the intersection, it is permanent. He wondered if there is a way to straighten out the curve in the road. He asked staff to look into the possibilities. Alderwoman Allen withdrew her motion to recommend Concept D in order to allow Mr. Petrie time to present Concepts A & D to the AHTD for their input and a cost analysis. Ron Petrie said staff will also work on straightening out the intersection. He asked if the Committee would prefer Mt. Comfort or James St. to be the predominate road. It was agreed that Mt. Comfort was predominate. Alderwoman Allen said she would like to have more information about the impact on Holly Street before a recommendation is made. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 4 of 10 Alderman Jordan said we can look at Concept D and Concept D with the road connecting Mt. Comfort and Holly straightened out more, get the costs involved and then make a decision He then moved the discussion onto Garland Avenue. Ron Petrie said the AHTD will develop a computer model of Garland Avenue with all the various scenarios if the Committee is willing to wait a couple of months. Alderman Jordan agreed to this. Alderman Jordan opened the floor to public comment Ron Kiolde said he and many neighbors would like for this street to be walkable and bikable, creating a nice entrance into the University without making it huge. Lorraine Miller said she is opposed to five lanes through their neighborhood. She thinks we should try something like traffic lights first. Susan Dew said the thought of having a five -lane road in this neighborhood appalls her. She believes five lanes will encourage speeding. Mayor Coolly said he believes three lanes can carry as much traffic as four lanes. He said we would be better off in the long run if there is a way to do three lanes with bike lanes and some sidewalks. He asked Mr. Petrie if it would be feasible to go with three lanes with bike lanes now but obtain the right-of-way needed in the event a wider street becomes necessary in the future. Ron Petrie said it would be feasible if this was a City project but it is a State project and the way they acquire right-of-way is more complicated. They would have to design the project with five lanes in order to set their right-of-way limits. We would then not use that design so it would be cumbersome. He said we could probably acquire right-of-way up to a set limit (say 80 ft.) and then we would more than likely have to acquire more once the design was done. In response to a further question from Mayor Coody, Ron Petrie said a cross section design for a three -lane street with bike lanes and sidewalks is anywhere from 66 ft. to 76 ft. Mike Johnson (UA) said eventually this street will go all the way to I540. Somehow it has to traverse through the University Farm and we don't want to take up a lot of the big trees on the farm. He said as you come off I540 you have one relief (Drake) to take traffic to Gregg. He said three lanes is great but he suggested looking at a tree'd median with left tum lanes as required. Gary Maharly said he would like to see a wider two-lane or three -lane street with sidewalks. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 5 of 10 Glenn David Wilson expressed his concern about the number of cars going south into the two lanes of South Garland toward the University from North Garland In response to a question from Alderman Jordan, Alderwoman Allen said at the Ward 2 meeting green space and refuge lanes were discussed as well as bike lanes and sidewalks. She said planning for the future does not mean laying out as much asphalt as you can. Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't believe anyone is advocating five lanes, other than Ron's concern about not being able to acquire the additional right-of-way if we go with three lanes. Alderman Jordan talked about the concept of refuge islands within the middle lane to break it up so you don't have a continuous turn lane. Alderwoman Thiel said when she talks of three lanes, she's thinking about a boulevard or something similar — not a continuous turn lane. Alderman Jordan said in a couple of months we will look at AHTD's modeling of this and make a determination then. 3. Elkins Road: Discussion to determine the status of Elkins Road as a private drive or public road. Elkins Road is located off Wellington Drive between Double Springs Road and 85u' Avenue (Harmon Road) in the western annexed area. Ron Petrie said at the last meeting some decisions were made about how to handle the roads in the annexed area. He said the recommendation was that the City do right-of-way acquisition to make this a full public road. Currently we have no right-of-way on the street. Part of the street has been maintained by the County in the past and we've done some minor maintenance on it. He gave a brief update of the status on the other roads. He said letters have been sent to all forty five of the property owners for input and we have received responses from ten of them, all saying yes. The deadline for response was set for the end of August. He said discussion of Elkins Road was delayed to this point to enable property owners to be present. He displayed an aerial photograph of the area and also slides of the road itself. In response to a question from Gary Dumas, Ron Petrie said the City would go in and do the survey on the street and prepare the documents. The City would not offer any money for the right-of-way but we would do all the necessary survey work to get the paperwork done, hand it to the property owner and have them sign it at no charge to the city. Alderman Ferrell said that sounds like a good deal for both parties. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said we don't know if the property owners agree to this yet. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 6 of 10 Alderman Jordan asked Hal Poole if he would like to address the Committee. Hal Poole said he is in favor of the City acquiring the right-of-way with the goal of making this into a public road. Alderman Ferrell asked if Mr. Poole knows what the expectation of the rest of the property owners might be. Hal Poole said he travels a lot and doesn't know the other property owners well. In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Ron Petrie said there are various property owners along the road. The road is not centered on a property line. Alderwoman Allen asked if Mr. Petrie sees any downside to doing this. Ron Petrie said the only down side is that we fully accept all maintenance for this road and we will probably end up paving at least a portion of it. The up side is that it is on our Master Street Plan and if we acquire the right-of-way we can make some sense of what is out there. Alderman Ferrell suggested that another up side is that when the road is paved the next appraisals of those properties should be higher, raising the tax base. Gary Dumas asked what kind of right-of-way we are looking to acquire at this point. Ron Petrie said on the Master Street Plan this is listed as a collector street. He said if we acquire the minimum right-of-way needed just to maintain the road and put in a 20 ft. wide asphalt strip we would need about 40 ft. of right-of-way. If we go with the full Master Street Plan, the right- of-way for a collector street is 70 ft. He said usually if you go through all the survey work, you would want to acquire the full right-of-way. However, it is not necessary as of today. Alderman Cook asked how far we plan on going with this road. Ron Petrie said probably to Mr. Poole's house. Beyond that it is really just a driveway. Mayor Coody asked what would happen if several property owners agree to the acquisition but others don't agree. Ron Petrie said unless the Council is willing to condemn some property we have to have full participation before we can move forward. He said we are doing this for the benefit of the property owners. The next step is to contact everyone to make sure they are in full agreement before we spend a lot of time on survey work. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 7 of 10 Alderman Ferrell moved to approve the staff recommendation to move forward to make Elkins Road a public street to end at the Poole property if 100% participation can be gained from the property owners. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion and itpassed unanimously. 4. Mount Comfort Road: Discussion of the status of the acquisition of right-of-way for Phase 1 of the Mount Comfort Road Widening Project. Ron Petrie said the plans are complete for this project and we are ready to go to bid but we are hung up on land acquisition through all of Phase 1 (east of the new Shiloh Drive intersection). He said we are trying to work through the issues as quickly as possible but we are behind schedule. He showed slides depicting the original concept as well as the current plan which was approved by the Street Committee and by the AHTD. Alderman Jordan made a suggestion to create a cul-de-sac on existing Shiloh coming off Mt. Comfort to eliminate the through traffic. Ron Petrie pointed out on the slide where the cul-de-sac would probably end, saying it would allow direct access to the Farm Credit building. Alderman Jordan opened the floor to public comment Ken Kines is the manager for the Farm Credit office in Fayetteville. He said the office was built at this location because of the accessibility. He talked about the importance of accessibility to his business. He said the Street Committee had reached a compromise with which Farm Credit agreed and he respectfully requested that the City continue with the modification of Shiloh allowing for right hand turns only off and onto Porter Road or Mt. Comfort Road. Don Nelms said he owns the property through which the new Shiloh Drive will go. He was approached by staff regarding the original plan and he agreed to it. He said he is not satisfied with the plan now being discussed to continue to access onto old Shiloh Dr. He said if we are going to close the road off, it needs to be completely closed so you don't have the traffic there. He believes the Farm Credit building is very visible and he doesn't believe their accessibility is damaged by the plan to re-route Shiloh. He also has concerns with the cul-de-sac option and said it would destroy the concept of what we're trying to do which is to keep the traffic moving. In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Don Nelms said he did not come to the earlier meetings when this compromise was discussed. He said he did have discussions with Mr. Petrie and his staff and he expressed his objections to the compromise to keep the old Shiloh Drive open. He said he had the impression that the State would not agree to this option. Alderwoman Thiel said we have to fix the intersection. This concept, minus the idea of leaving the existing Shiloh Drive open, was the one we liked the best. She said she is also sympathetic to 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 8 of 10 the need for Farm Credit to have access into their property. She said she thinks we need to go back to the table with Alderman Jordan's idea of a cul-de-sac. Alderman Jordan said he doesn't feel comfortable making a decision tonight. He wants to be able to have everyone sit down and work something out. Alderman Ferrell asked if the City is seriously looking at swapping properties with Mr. Nelms. Ron Petrie said we haven't proceeded with the right-of-way acquisition process but that was certainly something that would be considered and presented to the Council for approval. Alderman Ferrell asked staff what the down side to Alderman Jordan's compromise would be. Ron Petrie said he believes for moving the traffic on Mt. Comfort it would be better than what has already been accepted. In his opinion less traffic would use the road with this option. Alderman Ferrell asked Mr. Kines & Mr. Nelms if Alderman Jordan's idea is something they would consider. Ken Kines said they are willing to consider all alternatives. He said however that this committee did reach an agreement with Farm Credit and it surprises and concerns him that things can now be reversed. He wanted to clarify if the cul-de-sac idea would include either right or left hand turns on and off Mt. Comfort. Don Nelms said he would be very surprised if the State would agree to let traffic turn both directions out of that intersection. Alderman Jordan asked about the possibility of doing the cul-de-sac with right -turn only. Don Nelms said that would perfect what he originally understood the plan to be. He has no problem with that but if he was from Farm Credit, he would think long and hard about it. He said customers coming from either the north or the south are going to have difficulty getting out. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Don Nelms said his recommendation is to go with the original plan, which would involve closing the old Shiloh. Keeping the existing Shiloh open would defeat the whole purpose of designing and building the new Shiloh. He said we might as well leave it all as it is. Ken Kines said all the businesses most impacted by this are in agreement to leave it alone. He said from the time Farm Credit first found out about this plan, their goal has always been to give their customers every opportunity to access their business. They are looking for the least amount of change possible. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 9 of 10 Mayor Coody said whatever the Committee decides over the long haul, something needs to be in writing that allows the existing Shiloh Drive intersection to be cut off years in the future when the time is right. Alderwoman Allen asked that staff come up with a couple of more options and let the Committee study it a little. She isn't comfortable moving forward at this point. Alderwoman Thiel said she supported the original concept (which did not include the Farm Credit access). However when Farm Credit expressed their concerns and there was no strong opposition, the Committee bought into the idea of allowing that access. But there was the thought that the original solution was better in the long term. She said she would like to see a solution that would work temporarily to give access to Farm Credit but then revert to the original plan at some point in the future. Alderman Ferrell said no matter what happens, someone is not going to be happy. He said he knows how much time staff has already spent on this. He said staff might come up with some other ideas but he wouldn't ask them to spend much more time and money until we know what direction we are going to go. Alderwoman Allen asked why it is not a good idea to keep existing Shiloh open all the way. Ron Petrie said it was an idea staff found acceptable with a "right-in/right-out" scenario and would cost us little to nothing to do now. If the connections at the ends or the traffic get to be a problem, it can always be addressed in the future. The downside is that it is an intersection coming in at a bad location (multiple lanes of traffic and on a curve) and the more driveways and streets we eliminate, the better off we are. Mike Johnson spoke in favor of the cul-de-sac idea. Alderman Ferrell suggested that the City Engineer do a drawing of the cul-de-sac and speak with the AHTD about that proposal. The Committee agreed to this and determined that they would discuss the subject further at another Street Committee meeting. 5. Colleee Avenue Li$htinE Bids: Presentation and recommendation to the full City Council of the College Ave. Lighting Bids to be opened on Friday, Aug. 15, 2008. Ron Petrie said this is for all street lighting and wiring for the College Avenue project — from Maple to Rock Street. There were six bidders and the low bid ($140,000) was from Hill Electric. The staff s estimate was $280,000 so we were very pleased with this bid. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes August 18„ 2008 Page 10 of 10 Alderwoman Thiel moved that this be forwarded to the full City Council with recommendation for approval. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 6. General Update of the Transportation Bond Program Alderman Jordan suggested postponing the update on the Bond Program until the Street Committee meeting to be held next week. 7. Other Discussion Alderman Ferrell said the Council has legislative power over the purse. He proposed an ordinance that would provide that once a budget is approved for expenditures (such as for streets, curbs and gutters) any additions must come before the Street Committee and the City Council. Alderman Ferrell moved that this ordinance be forwarded to the City Council for discussion and approval. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion. Alderwoman Thiel asked Terry Gulley if additions come to the Street Committee now. Terry Gulley said we haven't done anything that is not on the approved list. He said because of the escalating price of asphalt, we more than likely won't even be able to complete the entire list that was approved. He talked some about the work being done on Lafayette and why it is being done. With a motion and second on the table a vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously. 8. Scheduling of the next Street Committee Meeting The next Street Committee meeting was scheduled for Thursday, August 28, 2008. 9. Adjourn There being no further business, Alderman Jordan adjourned the meeting. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org