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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-06-23 MinutesCity Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 1 of 18 Member Aldermen Mayor Dan Coody Ward 1 Position l — Brenda Thiel V10 Ward 2 Position 2 — Nancy Allen CityAttorney Kit Williams � 1 Ward 3 Position 2—Robert Ferrell Ward 4 Position 2 - Lioneld Jordan City Clerk Sondra Smith ARKANSAS City of Fayetteville Arkansas City Council Street Committee Meeting Minutes June 23, 2008 A meeting of the Fayetteville City Council Street Committee was held on June 23, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. in Room 326 of the City Administration Building located at 113 West Mountain Street, Fayetteville, Arkansas. MEMBERS PRESENT: Alderman Lioneld Jordan, Chair; Alderwoman Nancy Allen, Alderman Robert Ferrell, Alderwoman Brenda Thiel OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Alderman Kyle Cook; Alderwoman Shirley Lucas STAFF PRESENT: Ron Petrie, Chris Brown, Leif Olson, Gary Dumas, Karen Minkel Call Meeting to Order Alderman Jordan called the meeting to order. 1. Approval of the minutes of the May 12, 2008 Street Committee meeting Alderwoman Thiel moved that the minutes to the Street Committee meeting held on May 12, 2008 be approved as submitted. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 2. Garland Avenue (North of Fulbright Expressway) Ron Petrie said the area of Garland Avenue being discussed is to the north of I540 and Sam's Club. He said staff received some cost estimates from Mr. Hoskins and there was a question about whether the $10.86 million included the connecting roads. He pointed out the connections that are included in that amount and said the northern section of this proposed road goes by 39 residences. The southern portion goes by 29 residences. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 2 of 18 In answer to a question from Alderman Jordan, Ron Petrie said the southern route would get close to about ten residences in one area of the proposed route. In the other area the residences are further away. This is similar to the original route. Alderwoman Thiel expressed concern about what would happen with the old Hwy 112 intersection since we will be making Van Asche go down to Hwy 112. People will actually have to go further to get to Sam's. Ron Petrie said nothing is being proposed for this intersection's street segment though it could be done with additional money. It would revert back to a City street as opposed to a State highway. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said we budgeted $3.6 million for this portion and hired Carter and Burgess to do the design work. Their plans were about 50% complete when staff put a hold on the project. He said he can get the exact figures but he estimated we have expended around $75,000 so far. In response to a question from Alderwoman Allen, Ron Petrie distributed an aerial photo of the area to show how close the residences are to the proposed route. Tracy Hoskins said their measurements indicate the houses average from 95 to 125 feet from the road. The closest house is about 55 feet away. Alderwoman Thiel said she thinks this is a better plan as far as the northwest loop. She also likes the new Hwy 112 but said people will have to travel further to get back down to Sam's. Alderman Jordan suggested breaking the discussion up into two sections, taking the northwest loop first and then discussing Hwy 112. Alderwoman Allen indicated that she likes the plan. Alder -woman Lucas asked if the entire route would be in the City. Ron Petrie said portions of the proposed route are in the City limits and portions are not. The original proposal is pretty much completely in the County. Alderman Ferrell said he likes this proposal and thinks it gets us a step closer to getting access in and out of this area. Alderman Cook agreed it is probably better. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public discussion, reminding the members of the audience that the discussion at this point is only about the northwest loop. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 3 of 18 Bob Costrell said from his and his neighbors' viewpoint this is a much better plan. There being no further comment, Alderman Jordan brought the discussion back to the Committee. Alderwoman Thiel moved that the Committee recommend approval of the concept of the proposed northwest loop of Garland Ave. Alderwoman Allen seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. Alderman Jordan opened discussion on the Hwy 112 portion of the plan. Alderwoman Thiel said other than the distance traveled this makes more sense. She asked if we will get a certain amount of private funding if we go this route. Ron Petrie said he will have to defer to Mr. Tracy Hoskins. Alderman Jordan said he would like to first discuss whether the Committee likes the design and then discuss the funding on both portions of this plan. Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't see whether one design is any better than the other outside of the funding question. Alderman Ferrell asked Mr. Petrie if there are any logistical downsides to this proposed plan. Ron Petrie said functionally he thinks the plan works much better than the current configuration. Alderman Cook agreed with Mr. Petrie that functionally this design works better. Alderwoman Lucas expressed concern about access down to the business section in that area. Gary Dumas explained that the existing Garland Ave. wilt stay open. In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Ron Petrie said that Garland would revert to a City street. Tracy Hoskins said this street would remain open and he is sure it will be improved as business develops in the area just as in any area. He said it would be very easy to continue to use this route to get to Sam's. Alderwoman Thiel expressed some concern about how hard it will be to turn onto the old Garland due to the need to cross traffic. But she said this plan does seem to make more sense. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 4 of 18 Alderman Jordan returned the conversation to funding and asked what cost is involved. Tracy Hoskins said the first phase is limited to Hwy 112 and tieing streets back into the new route. In response to a question from Alderman Jordan, Tracy Hoskins said the cost for the first phase is $10.86 million. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said the City has $3.66 million. In response to a question from Alderman Jordan, Tracy Hoskins said he will pay $2.5 million. Alderwoman Thiel asked what Mr. Hoskins' cost would be if we leave the plan the way it is. Tracy Hoskins said we are talking about two different kinds of roads but he thinks the main roads in Park West as they are currently designed were estimated at $5.3 million. He said he will still have to build some of the roads in this development. This road would only take the place of what used to be referred to as Park West Blvd. He said for this plan they have taken Park West Blvd., rotated it clockwise, widened it, made it a little longer and built it to State highway standards instead of City standards. Alderman Jordan said he thinks Alderwoman Thiel is asking if Mr. Hoskins will be paying as much money on the new Hwy 112 as he would on the old one. Tracy Hoskins said he would have to delineate that cost. He said he hasn't looked in that direction but he's committed to doing that. That's not a problem. Alderman Ferrell said it sounds like the Committee is in agreement on the idea of the route. He said he is assuming that if the Committee recommends this to go to the Council, Mr. Hoskins will have a presentation of the overall proposal for the project. Tracy Hoskins agreed to that. Alderman Jordan said he wants to make sure that the funds for this are comparable to what they were (for the old plan). Tracy Hoskins said they can run an analysis on that. Alderman Jordan said between Mr. Hoskins and the City we have about $6 million, about half of the cost of the project. Ron Petrie said we are short $4.7 million. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 5 of 18 Alderwoman Thiel said we don't have the funding yet for Van Asche. Ron Petrie said we will hopefully use portions of the Economic Corridor earmark for that. Alderwoman Thiel said Van Ashe needs to be built first before this project needs to be built. Alderman Jordan said he agrees. He doesn't mind this being on the table but he thinks it is more important for Van Asche to be built. Gary Dumas said the Committee reallocated funds for Van Asche at a prior meeting. Ron Petrie said that was prior to getting acknowledgement from the Senate that we could use the funds from the Economic Corridor. In response to a question from Alderman Jordan, Ron Petrie said this plan is good from the design standpoint. There is no question it is much better functionally. Returning to the Van Asche question, he reminded the Committee that the Council resolution was that we would not move forward with the project until the annexation/deannexation has occurred. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said he anticipates the intersection of Garland and Hwy 112 will be fully signalized. Alderman Ferrell moved to forward this plan to the full Council. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion. Alderman Jordan opened the floor to the public. There being none he returned the discussion to the Street Committee With a motion and second on the floor a vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously. 3. Traffic Calming Study Results Ron Petrie reminded the Committee that about two years ago we changed our policy on how we initiate studies for traffic calming which "threw the doors wide open". He presented a table outlining the studies done and the 48 2007 requests. The studies, done by the transportation division and the police department, involved accumulating the data and putting it through a point system. The current policy recommends a minimum score of 60 points. The three areas of the 48 that met the criteria were Stubblefield between Old Missouri and Bertha; Ash Street between Old Wire Rd. and Overcrest; and Salem Road from Vasser to Essex. He presented this report to the Committee for a final decision on installation. Alderwoman Allen expressed her concern about how we determine where these are needed. She feels there are situations that don't meet the criteria that obviously have a need. She sited as an 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 6 of 18 example the street where cars were regularly running into a house (discussed at earlier meetings) and suggested using common sense about where one goes instead of a criteria Alderwoman Thiel said she feels if you don't have some kind of gage or measurement the decision is going to be a little arbitrary. Alderwoman Allen said she's not saying we shouldn't have this but she hopes we will still leave open the common sense aspect of it. Alderman Ferrell said he thinks we should look at our policies. The more connectively we have, the more people will be asking for speed bumps. We need to think about that. Alderwoman Thiel asked Ron if our system is based on one call from a citizen or if some sort of analysis is done with input from residents. Ron Petrie said he is more than open for suggestions on revisions on the policy or even whether we want to continue the policy but staff now does a study with one call. When we go and locate where a table or other speed control will be located, staff contacts adjacent property owners only. Alderwoman Thiel said she doesn't object to the current system although it does take a lot of time. She suggested it might be changed to require a petition of at least five residents. She does think it is beneficial to have a consensus to start with and then when it starts to go into place, she would like to see a notification of everyone on that street (even before Street Committee's approval). She suggested one person could make the request but that a petition should be signed by 50% of the residents on the street in order to go forward for a study.. Ron Petrie said the policy at one time required 75% of the residents sign a petition. Alderman Thiel said she doesn't object to 75%. She said she thought that was a good policy but there was a little confusion in the beginning as to where the request went. Now she feels it is being handled better. Alderman Ferrell said we have a finite amount of money and an infinite number of requests. He suggested that we see how much money is going to be allocated and then make a decision on the gravity of each particular situation measured against the amount of resources we have. Alderwoman Thiel said she would like to look at the policy again. Alderwoman Allen agreed. She asked if we have had many complaints other than those on Rolling Hills. Ron Petrie said we have had a few but not many. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 7 of 18 Alderwoman Thiel said she has had an overwhelming number of complaints about them. A lot of people just don't like them. She believes our policy can address that Alderman Cook said that in addition to the limited amount of money for the traffic calming items, there's a limited amount of staff time available so the policy needs to address that. He also suggested seeing if there is another, cheaper way to build the devices other than concrete. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Ron Petrie said that only one person made the call about each of these three projects. No other notifications have been made. Alderwoman Thiel asked if Mr. Petrie could wait to bring these to the Committee until after some of the residents have been contacted because we don't know if everyone wants the devices. Alderwoman Lucas said she knows about the one on Salem and feels everyone there wants it. Alderman Ferrell said he doesn't disagree with some sort of notification that doesn't involve a lot of staff time. However, he doesn't remember any one of these where the residents weren't aware of the situation once the Committee gets down to talking about the installation. Ron Petrie said he just needs some direction on what the Committee would like for him to do on this issue before the next meeting. In response to a question from Alderwoman Lucas, Ron Petrie said this construction is scheduled for 2008. Alderman Jordan opened the ,Jloor for public discussion. Glenn David Wilson suggested having a place to list a citizen request such as this on the City's website and somehow working in the neighborhood list so people on that street could leave their name and comments and reduce phone calls. There being no further comments, Alderman Jordan brought the discussion back to the Street Committee. In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Ron Petrie said he would like to get the Committee's opinion on moving forward with these three requests. The next step would be for the staff to draw up a plan. Gary Dumas suggested putting signs up on those streets regarding the projects. Alderwoman Thiel said she is in favor of moving the project on Salem forward since it appears everyone knows about it and are in favor of it. She agrees that signs should be put up on the other two streets before any more money is spent on drawing up plans. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 8 of 18 Ron Petrie asked if comments should be solicited from those who live on the street or those who travel the street. He said around 2000 vehicles per day travel most of these streets and most of the travelers don't live on the street. Alderwoman Thiel said we need to contact the people who live on the street. Alderwoman Allen moved that we move forward with the Salem Road project Alderman Ferrell seconded the motion and ifpassed unanimously. Alderman Ferrell suggesting leaving the other two projects for now and he will visit with the applicants to find out who in the neighborhood support the request. He asked Mr. Petrie to get that contact information to Alderman Rhoads and to him. Alderwoman Allen said at some point before the end of the year she would like to begin the process of reevaluating the whole traffic calming study process. 4. Steele Boulevard Median Cut Ron Petrie said we discussed this at the last meeting and the Committee recommended forwarding it to the City Council. The applicant did not speak at that meeting however. There are two representatives of the applicant here who would like to speak. He explained the situation with Steele Boulevard and the need for the median cut to allow access for a current development. He showed slides and explained Option 2 presented by the applicant and explained the staffs concern with that option. He then showed a slide for Option 1 which staff would recommend. Mike Morgan with McClelland Consulting Engineers introduced Jim Irwin with Irwin Partners and said both he and Mr. Irwin are representing the land owners as well as the existing and future tenants of 1 Steele Plaza, the existing office building located in the northwest quadrant of this area. He said they do like the median and want to keep the median cuts to a minimum. He would like to push for Option 2 which allows people to remove their cars from the line of traffic in order to make their respective left tum movements. He said they are willing to put the money and time into the design and construction of Option 2 as opposed to Option I when he feels they will probably have to come back and add the deceleration lanes once the area is built out. Ron Petrie said he thinks that in the future there is a good chance that the deceleration lanes (in Option 2) will be needed. We know that today they will not be needed because there is only one development there. It's just a matter of whether the Committee wants to take the risk that they will be needed. He understands the money concern since it will cost more to come back and redo it in the future. He said it is a judgment call. Jim Irwin showed an aerial photo of the area and talked about their concerns about not having a place for people making left hand turns to get out of the traffic flow. He agrees that it is not as 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 9 of 18 bad now as it will be in the future. He said rather than having to come back later and spend more money to do this, they would like to do it one time. He believes this is a safer option Alderman Ferrell asked if Mr. Irwin has an idea of the cost difference in doing it now versus doing it later. Mike Morgan said they have not run that calculation. He said they would like to be able to relocate the existing irrigation and electric lines that run down the center of the median rather than to come back and remobilize. Alderman Ferrell asked if Mr. Morgan and Mr. Irwin feel pretty confident that the predicted building is going to occur in this area. Jim Irwin said at one time they were going to put four buildings on each side of the road. He said that plan was a long range plan and he thinks at some point it would be wise to have these median cuts. He doesn't disagree with Mr. Petrie that the deceleration lanes in Option 2 aren't needed today but it seems like to would be better to just go ahead and do it right once. Alderwoman Thiel said she prefers Option 2 because we will inevitably need that. She asked if the developers would be doing a cost share. Ron Petrie said this will be 100% their cost either way. Alderwoman Thiel said we're not talking about doing away with that much green space with Option 2 and ultimately that's what we will need. Alderwoman Allen asked Mr. Petrie how many years he thinks it would be before we needed Option 2 if we now go with Option 1. Ron Petrie said he would guess about five to ten years. In response to a further question from Alderwoman Allen, Ron Petrie said staff prefers Option 1 and it allows us to go back in and change to Option 2 in the future, specifically when it is needed. Typically we don't put signalization in until the traffic need is there and staff feels they should be consistent with our recommendations to this Committee. In response to a question from Alderwoman Allen, Ron Petrie said staff's recommendation isn't based on the green space. He said he doesn't think there in anything in the ordinances that would require the Street Committee or Council to vote on this but because this is a green space it becomes a sensitive issue and requires some public input and discussion. Alderwoman Thiel says she doesn't see the parallel between a traffic light and this because you're not spending any money initially on the traffic light. You're just waiting until it is needed. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 10 of 18 In this case the City would be saving money because this would be built for the future and would not have to be rebuilt. Alderman Ferrell moved that the Committee forward this to the Council with a recommendation for Option 2. Alderman Jordan opened the,/loor for public comment. In response to a question from Alderwoman Lucas, Jim Irwin said this might make their property more marketable but mainly it is that it is a safety issue and they would like to do it right the first time. He thinks everyone agrees that at some point it will need to be changed. They just don't want to go through the process twice. Alderman Cook said he believes the precedent is already there as we allowed the median cut at the theater. Mike Morgan asked if it is possible for the Committee to vote on this tonight and be done with it or if it has to go to the Council. Ron Petrie said it wouldn't have to go to the Council. Alderman Ferrell changed his motion to recommend approval of Option 2 and allow staff to move forward with the project. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 5. Discussion to determine the status of all roads located within the western annexation area. Karen Minkel said the roads in the recently annexed 1500 acres on the City's west side were receiving different degrees of maintenance from the County. The City has looked at all these roads to determine the right-of-way and level of maintenance previously received. Staff is now seeking direction from the Committee about what to do in the future with these roads. She displayed a map showing the area and reviewed the staff's recommendations. She said if the road is serving only one residence it is the equivalent of a private driveway and staff recommends it be left as such. She outlined the three roads that meet this definition. She talked about the criteria the staff used to determine which of the other roads in this area for which the City should actively pursue right-of-way. She said if the road is on the Master Street Plan the staff recommends that the City ask the property owners for the right-of-way. If the property owners are willing to dedicate adequate right-of-way, the City would provide basic maintenance (laying gravel and grading) and it would get on the list to eventually be paved. She said Elkins Road is the only road for which staff is recommending asking right-of-way at this time. Another criterion at which staff is looking is the level of public safety service the City is providing. Staff is recommending that if the property owners would like their road to be a public road and 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 11 of 18 eventually be paved, they could dedicate the appropriate right-of-way and pay for the survey of that road. A third type of road in this area includes those that are paved but for which there is no right-of-way. These roads have a lot of residences on them and a number of subdivisions access them. She said these roads are the most challenging decision. To ask each property owner for right-of-way would be very time consuming. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Karen Minkel said these roads were treated as public roads by the County but right-of-way was never dedicated. Karen Minkel asked if the Committee agreed with the first staff recommendation — that those roads serving only one residence should be considered private drives. Alderwoman Thiel moved that those roads serving only one residence be considered a private drive and the City will not maintain these. Alderman Ferrell seconded that motion. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment There being none, he returned the discussion to the Committee. With a motion and second on the floor a vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously. Karen Minkel asked if there is agreement for staff to pursue asking the residents of Elkins Road for dedication of right-of-way and if that right-of-way is not dedicated, the City will not provide maintenance. Gary Dumas said this is the road on which Mr. Poole lives and he suggests that Mr. Poole be notified to allow for a further discussion before a decision is made. Alderman Jordan agreed with this suggestion. Karen Minkel said that staff is recommending that the City not pursue right-of-way for all the roads in blue on the map she displayed. If the residents would like to have the road be considered a public road, they would need to dedicate the adequate right-of-way and pay for the survey of the road. Basic maintenance would then be provided and it would be put on the list to be paved eventually. Alderwoman Thiel so mover. Alderman Ferrell seconded the motion. Alderwoman Lucas asked if the residents would be notified that they can pursue this possibility. Karen Minkel said that would not be a problem. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment. There being none, he returned the floor to the Committee. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 12 of 18 With a motion and second on the floor a vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously. Alderman Jordan asked that the discussion of the remaining roads (Ridges and 85th) be postponed until the next Street Committee meeting. 6. Garland Avenue (North Street to Melmar) Ron Petrie reminded the Committee that the original concept for this in the Transportation Bond issue showed a five lane section with a 12 ft. wide center turn lane. There would be an 1 I ft. lane and a 14 ft. shared vehicle/bicycle lane. The concept also included a 10 ft. green space and a 6 ft. sidewalk. This section is shown from Wedington/North St. to Melmar. He then showed the cross section that the AHTD presented at their public meeting. It is a five lane with continuous turn lane. It has 11 ft. lanes on the outside and a 12 ft. center lane with a 3 ft. green space and 5 ft. sidewalk on one side a 6 ft. green space and 10 ft. sidewalk/trail on the other side. They did get public comment on this and are now looking for an official comment from the City. Alderman Jordan said he was at this meeting and a lot of different opinions were expressed. Alderman Ferrell asked if the 10 ft. sidewalk/trail is concrete or asphalt. Ron Petrie said that was not specified but he would anticipate that it would be concrete. Alderman Ferrell said assuming we go with the concept with bicycle lanes he wondered if there is enough existing right-of-way to accomplish everything needed. Ron Petrie said there is not enough existing right-of-way. He said right-of-way will vary on this corridor just like others. Some areas probably have no right-of-way. He said typically on a state highway you see 80 ft. of right-of-way. Our proposed cross section requires 96 ft. of right-of- way. He talked about one particularly tight area. In that area the State shows no green space. Alderman Cook said the Sidewalk & Trails Committee has discussed the highway department's proposal. That Committee adamantly supports adding bike lanes to the cross section. He said the 2025 Plan and the Fayetteville Alternative Transportation & Trails Plan outline bicycle lanes. He said Garland Avenue is a major north/south artery for the City and the American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials recommends against the shared use path as shown in the State's cross section. He said the Sidewalk & Trails Committee advocate adding five foot bicycle lanes and reducing the 10 ft. shared path to a 5 ft. sidewalk. He outlined some of the nine reasons AASHTO recommend against a shared path. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment asking that the bike lanes be discussed first. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 13 of 18 Elizabeth Garrett expressed her concern about the danger to bikers from people backing out of the driveways of the houses on Garland. She asked how a bike lane works in the existing situation and if the houses were going to be removed. Alderman Cook said the bicycle has the same rights as a car on the road. Ron Petrie said according to the AHTD there is no removal of buildings at this time for the project. A second member of the audience expressed his preference for bike lanes on the street instead of on the side path. Pete Heinzelman said he believes Fayetteville needs more bike lanes and he is in favor of them on Garland. He questioned whether the traffic count supports the need for a five -lane road. Ron Kild also questioned the need for five lanes in what is essentially a residential neighborhood. He said he would like to see three lanes only with a turn lane in the middle. Matthew Petty said expressed opposition to five lanes. He said the street is wide and does not feel safe for pedestrians. He talked about addressing climate change by discouraging the use of cars. He suggested a boulevard with median cuts and bike lanes at the road level. Bob Bonds questioned the need for five lanes. He prefers a boulevard and supports bike lanes. Glenn David Wilson asked why we are doing this project. Alderman Jordan said traffic is bottle necking in this area. The traffic stacks up and you can't turn right or left. He said he does have some issues with the continuous turn lane. He said this was started years ago and public input was solicited throughout the process. He said we may have to reconfigure the design but it's not like we just suddenly one day decided to stick five lanes through there. There was a process we went through with a lot of public input. Alderman Ferrell said the fact that we have a main feeder here for ingress and egress to the largest institution to the City of Fayetteville is a pretty good reason for this project. Glenn David Wilson said he can understand if we are doing this for the University but if we're doing it for other reasons he would like to know what that is. Alderman Ferrell said when we began thinking about this one of the things he considered (not the only thing) was that this is one of the main, direct feeders in and out of the University. Jay Max Van Hoose works for Harps Food Stores and he said he understands that the City is responsible for acquiring the right-of-way for this project and he encourages the staff as they 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 14 of 18 work with the highway department to take into consideration that the right-of-way would take out 22 parking places at Harps. He believes there are some creative things the design group can do to get the bike lanes, the trail and the roads and not acquire that right-of-way. He said he will leave a copy of the letter they are sending to AHTD. Another issue is that south of the Wedington/North St. intersection there are a lot of ingress and egress points and he thinks the design of Mt. Comfort Road should be looked at in terms of trying to line it up with Holly Street. Ron Petrie said he wanted to make clear that the City will be responsible for paying for the right-of-way but will have no involvement in the acquisition of the right-of-way. Brian Smith said he feels the problem with congestion on Garland is at the intersection of Sycamore and Dean. He said if that intersection isn't fixed, the traffic will back up no matter how many lanes are put in. Elizabeth Garrett read a letter from Zola Moon, a property owner on Maxwell. The letter expressed concern about the proposed five -lane widening of Garland. She supports a three -lane road with 6 ft. green space and 4 ft. sidewalk on both sides. There being no further public comment, Alderman Jordan returned the discussion to the Street Committee. Ron Petrie said at the AHTD meeting Mr. Johnson with the UA submitted a proposal for a four - lane section with bike lanes, a 6 ft. green space and 5 ft. sidewalks. He asked that this proposal be presented at this meeting. Alderwoman Thiel said if the area didn't have so many curb cuts she would be very supportive of not having a continuous turn lane. But the idea of four lanes provides turn lanes. She asked how the staff feels about that proposal. Ron Petrie said it would be an acceptable option considering the traffic numbers. It was the option that was recommended for Wedington before that plan was changed. Alderwoman Thiel said she agrees that this does not need to be fives lanes. Alderman Ferrell said he feels we have to look down the road and know that growth will come. He mentioned an idea that was presented that would involve five lanes but with refuge islands in between for turns. He said this is a state highway and he believes growth will come. Taking the emotion out of this, this is an opportunity and it may cost us not to take advantage of it. In response to a question from Alderman Cook, Ron Petrie said he will have to ask the State about any time frame they might have for this project. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 15 of 18 Alderwoman Allen and Alderman Cook said they would like to have a Ward 2 meeting to discuss this project before the next Street Committee meeting 7. Access Management Ordinance Leif Olson said at the May 12 meeting Alderwoman Thiel asked for a real example of how this ordinance would work here in Fayetteville. Staff designed two different subdivision layouts on a piece of undeveloped property west of the new Owl Creek School, south of Persimmon and east of Broyles. This area is split with a flood plain so there are some existing natural topography barriers but most of the property is flat. A comparison was made of the amount of infrastructure that would be required in both scenarios. He showed both examples and discussed issues with each. He then reviewed the infrastructure calculations for cul-de-sac developments, outlining the total amount of street pavement that would be required. He said staff is proposing to discourage cul-de-sacs, not prohibit them and they acknowledge that they can be used in certain situations. Alderwoman Thiel said she agrees the grid system is preferable. However there are a lot more curb cuts with this design. Leif Olson said there are more street intersections but not curb cuts. He said the proposed ordinance calls for street intersections for local and residential streets at a minimum of one every 800 or one every 600 feet. This meets the criteria as proposed. He said with this we are creating more street intersections but in a positive way that allows distribution of traffic out over a larger area so you are not creating congestion points. He continued outlining advantages of the grid plan. The infrastructure calculations for this scenario came out requiring about 1000 sq. feet less in street pavement. He reviewed street and alley cross sections outlined in the Master Street Plan. He also reviewed the infrastructure benefits to the gridded street network. He said that this proposed ordinance speaks to all six of our 2025 goals, particularly discouraging urban sprawl, making traditional town form the standard and growing a livable transportation network. He said this ordinance would give staff a tool in working with developers. Alderwoman Allen said she agrees with staff. She said the old part of Fayetteville was laid out on a grid network and most of the 2025 goals are met in that part of town. Alderwoman Allen moved that the access management ordinance be forwarded to the City Council with recommendation for approval. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion. Alderman Ferrell said there is a lot of good information here but he won't support it. Alderman Jordan opened the floor for public comment. There being none he returned the floor to the Committee. Alderman Cook said he supports all of what Mr. Olson presented. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 16 of 18 Alder -woman Lucas said she understands what Alderman Ferrell is saying but would like to see this gridded network promoted for the undeveloped areas With a motion and second on the,Jloor a vote was taken. The vote passed on a vote of three for and one against (Jordan, Allen and Thiel for and Ferrell against). 8. Discussion of potential sidewalk improvements to Block Avenue between the Downtown Square and Dickson Street to be included in the 2009 Sidewalk Replacement ProEram. Ron Petrie said Alderwoman Thiel requested this item be added to the agenda. Alderwoman Thiel said the owner of one of the properties along this area has visited with other business owners along Block and there is a real problem with the sidewalks from Meadow to Spring. It is a dangerous area and is a main way to the square. This should be a high priority. In response to a question from Alderman Ferrell, Gary Dumas said the current square improvements only go to the alleys on the streets off the Square. Alderman Ferrell said the mayor directs City crews and not the Council. Gary Dumas said the Council approves a sidewalk program which staff works on. Alderman Cook said at one time Block Avenue was a part of the Dickson Street Improvement Project but that funding never came through so the project never happened. He wondered if there was a design done at that time. Gary Dumas said it was only a concept. We requested funding a few times from the Federal government but got no money. He said however that if the Council wants to prioritize this street as part of the 2009 sidewalk improvement program that is totally appropriate. He said everyone agrees that this is a problem and needs to be done. As a matter of fact the mayor has brought this up probably five times in the last two weeks. Alderman Cook said it will be incredibly challenging on the east side. Gary Dumas said it is going to be another problematic project. Alderwoman Thiel said just getting a sidewalk on one side of the street would be of great benefit to pedestrians. She would like to see it put on the list. Alderman Ferrell asked if the sidewalks and curbs on Lafayette came through the Street Committee. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 17 of 18 Keith Shreve said it was on the 2008 Street and Sidewalk Plan. Alderman Ferrell moved that the Block Street sidewalks project (sidewalks only, no lights, etc.) be added to the 2009 sidewalk improvement program. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 9. General Update of the Transportation Bond Pro¢ram Chris Brown said due to right-of-way revisions and the environmental clearance needed staff expects to be about six months behind on the Cato Springs Rd. project. Construction will likely begin in early 2009. He said we have hit a few snags on the right-of-way acquisition for the first phase of the Mt. Comfort Road project and we may be a couple of months behind on that project Gary Dumas said staff has met with the finance director and the city's financial advisor to talk about possible funding options for the possible relocation of Hwy 112 (tad item on agenda) and the only funding option that has presented itself is the re -prioritization of some of these bond program projects. Alderwoman Thiel said Ward 1 has given up all that she will give up. Gary Dumas said he is simply telling the Committee what the situation is. He said he thinks the Hwy 112 project is an extraordinarily viable project and is important to the future of the City. However, there are limited funds available. Alderwoman Lucas asked if any help would come from the State since they are in favor of this. Gary Dumas said there would not be anything from the State. In response to a question from Alderwoman Thiel, Gary Dumas said that Van Asche is still on the table. Alderwoman Thiel said that Van Asche is critical as are all the projects on the bond program. Alderman Jordan said staff is simply throwing out the option of what we may have to do if we approve the Hwy 112 project. There would have to be approval first. In response to a question from Alderwoman Lucas, Gary Dumas agreed that if it is approved it can be put on the next bond program. He said the next bond issue will be around 2015 Alderman Jordan said his major concern about this project was the funding. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org City Council Street Committee Minutes June 23, 2008 Page 18 of 18 10. Discussion of a request to vacate a portion of the Mountain Street right-of-way to the east of College Avenue in association with the College Avenue Improvement Proiect. Ron Petrie said staff is currently working with a couple hundred property owners on several of these projects. This is something that came up during one of those discussions. He said we are looking at a small portion of Mountain Street just to the east of College. He showed a slide of the property involved. He explained the problems with pull -in, back -out parking for one of the buildings adjacent to this portion of the street. The street as it exists is up against this building and goes only a short way back and makes a 90 degree bend on a blind corner. The proposal is to vacate a portion of the street that is next to the building to provide some angled parking to the side and get rid of the parking in front of the building. He said he knows there is a process these vacations have to go through and this is just a matter of getting some feedback before discussions are continued with the property owner. Alderman Ferrell asked how far north of the building the street right-of-way is. Ron Petrie said the property line is right up next to the building on the north. Alderwoman Allen said this makes a lot of sense. Alderman Ferrell agreed. Alderwoman Allen moved that the Committee support this vacation. Alderwoman Thiel seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. Ron Petrie said staff will go through the regular process through the Planning Commission and City Council for this vacation. 11. Scheduling of the next Street Committee Meeting Ron Petrie said he will talk to the AHTD to see if they have a deadline for input regarding the Garland Avenue project before the next meeting date is set. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. 113 West Mountain 72701 (479) 521-7700 (479) 575-8257 (Fax) accessfayetteville.org