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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-02-26 MinutesFiremen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page t of 7 Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 A Special meeting of the Fayetteville Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund was held at 11:00 a.m. on February 26, 2004 in Room 326 of the City Administration Building. Present: Pete Reagan, Robert Johnson, Marion Doss, Ronnie Wood, Sondra Smith, Secretary, City Attorney Kit Williams, Marsha Farthing, Fire Chief Bosch. The meeting was called to order by Marion Doss. Approval of the Minutes: Pete Reagan moved to approve the minutes. Ronnie Wood seconded the motion. Upon roll call the motion passed. 5-0. Mayor Coody and Danny Farrar were absent. Approval of the Pension List.- February ist: February 2004 Pension List approval with 3% Temporary COLA added and March 2004 Pension List approval. Pete Reagan moved to approve the pension lists. Ronnie Wood seconded the motion. Upon roll call the motion passed. 5-0. Mayor Coody and Danny Farrar were absent. Longer Investments: Marion Doss: We have a copy of the Longer Investment report; do we have any discussion on their report? Pete Reagan: This is just an informational item. Page 6 shows the total of our portfolio, it shows a 3.3% increase for the month of January. We are very proud of the performance level of Longer Investments. Old Business: Resolution Number 02-03, Enacting a 10 Year DROP and Resolution Number 04-03, Working after DROP: Marion Doss: We have Resolution 02-03 and 04-03 written and ready to go before the City Council. Sondra Smith: It has not gone before the City Council yet. Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 2 of 7 Kit Williams: I think it started to go then it was tabled. Pete Reagan: Do we know why it was tabled. Sondra Smith: It did not make it on the City Council's agenda. Chief Bosch: I asked to take a look at those resolutions. I realized the actuarial impact those proposed changes will have on the retirement system it self is nothing. There is no negative impact on the system. My concern was will these changes have other additional impacts on the department as a whole. I took a look at the resolutions and I drafted a memo. Let me summarize it for you and you can read this at your leisure. I have two primary concerns, the first concern that I have is that by extending the DROP plan we will in essence stifle the opportunity for promotions within the department. The nine people that are eligible on the DROP plan currently hold the ranks of 1 Assistant Chief, 5 Captains and 3 Driver/Operators. This will actually have an impact and stifle about 7 key promotions within the department. That is a true concern that I have, it kind of kills the initiative of some of these folks that want to move up in the organization. My concern is that as the Fire Chief I am suppose to look out for the overall physical impacts on the department. I think that by changing the plan we won't see a negative hit on the department, it won't cost us any more money which we understand, but we won't be able to show any type of salary savings through the normal attrition process. That comes to about the equivalent of five salaries for entry level fire fighters. As we discuss the need to add additional personnel and expand the department a change like this is totally contradictory to our ability to do that. That is basically where this goes. I am declined not to support this recommendation, however it is a Pension Board decision and you have the ability to take this to the City Council. Kit Williams: I think they have already made that decision. They have already voted that way and it will be before the City Council. Is that the meeting of March 16, 2004? Sondra Smith: Yes it is suppose to be presented to the City Council on March 16, 2004. Pete Reagan: To go before City Council at agenda session or to go before them at a Council meeting. Kit Williams: That is the City Council meeting date. Chief Bosch: I might add that I think the 3% temporary COLA is a good idea. Chief Bosch handed out a copy of his memo that was addressed to the Mayor. Chief Bosch: My primary concern is that when we make a decision and again this is good for 10% of the department, but I am trying to look out for the whole 100%, I have to look at this from the overall picture. When we try to move a decision forward like this if I don't take all those factors into consideration then I am not doing my job. To make a decision based specifically on the actuarially soundness without looking at the other factors I think really challenges the issue. Marion Doss: As a Pension Board member it is a benefit that is allowed by state law and a benefit that the actuaries say we can do and the Arkansas Fire and Police Pension Review Board says we can do it. That's the way I have to look at it. It is a benefit to our members and we Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 3 of 7 represent those members. If it is allowable and we can do it I think we should offer that benefit if they want it. I am glad you put some thought into this and I want to read your memo. Chief Bosch: I appreciate and respect your opinion. I respect all of your opinions. Kit Williams: People are wearing different hats. The Pension Board has one hat you have a different hat and the City Council has another hat. Pete Reagan: Chief, I don't see any thing in here where you have addressed the cost of a new hire coming on and what it is going to cost to train him to the level that we currently have. I also don't see anything in here addressing the experience of a 20 year firefighter or a 20 year captain versus an entry level firefighter. I think that that needs to be addressed. Basically what this is looking at is dollars and I fully understand that, that is your job as head of the budget for the Fire Department, but I also think that you have not addressed that issue. Chief Bosch: The experience factor and the cost for training and the start up cost. Pete Reagan: Yes. Chief Bosch: Those are two excellent points. I didn't draft those in here, let me discuss that a little bit and then I will do some homework on that. I think as far as the cost for training goes that is built into the initial salary, we are going to have that cost for training whether it is an experienced employee or a new employee. Granted there is going to be a little bit more training on the front end that we would incur for minimum standards requirements. We are looking at addressing that in a different avenue, with some policy changes on minimum standards for hiring. That would kind of get that cost off our plate. The actual cost for that is about $700 to $800 to actually train them to the entry level firefighter one, firefighter two and then the EMT training is a little more than that. Pete Reagan: But that's minimum right? Chief Bosch: That is minimum that is entry level, granted that doesn't compensate for the experience factor and I don't know how you can quantify the experience factor. It is an excellent point and I agreed with you, I think you have a very sound and valid point but I don't know exactly how we would quantify that. There is no way to put a dollar amount on your level of experience opposed to other levels of experience. I guess we probably could but I don't know how we would do it. It would be a very difficult calculation because everyone has different experiences. Would that lead us into the argument that we should address our pay schedule based on levels of experience? Kit Williams: To some extent it is because longevity, the longer you are here you go to different steps. Marion Doss: I think it is to your credit that some of these guys want to stay here longer now. I think there are some of them that at one point in their career they were trying to tough things out. I think they see that the department is changing and growing and I think they see that as a real positive thing. Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 4 of 7 Pete Reagan: On page four your recommendation on the 3% COLA, the City Council does not have to approve that. Chief Bosch: Yes, I understand that, I did not understand that when I drafted this. Kit Williams: I think the only reason the City Council is even addressing this issue is that it does have a potential impact upon the Fire Department, so I think that is why the legislation has the City Council's approval for this. Pete Reagan: I was in the room when this was voted on and the Municipal League was not going to support this unless they had approval by City Council and that is the reason that it is in there. Has the Mayor seen this? Chief Bosch: He received a copy of it yesterday, I don't know if he has read it or not. Pete Reagan: So we don't know if this is going to be the Mayor's position, I guess we could ask him. Kit Williams: Yes, I would ask him. Pete Reagan: Can we draft a memo from this board to him asking him if this is his position and we would like to know what his position is going to be. It sounds like by Chief Bosch's memo that we are going to take this to the City Council and be on opposing sides. Sondra Smith: We can meet after this meeting and draft a memo and I will get the memo to him today. Pete Reagan: Okay. Copy of the Summary from Martin and Kieklak: Marion Doss: This is a copy of what they handed out at the last meeting. Sondra Smith: I think Chief Bosch had some questions on the make up of the Firemen's Pension Board. I asked Kit if he would answer your questions. Marion Doss: We received an Attorney General's opinion that everyone that is on DROP is considered retired as far as the Pension Board make up. Danny Farrar is the only active member that is not on DROP, if he goes on DROP he will be considered retired so he will have to run for election. Pete Reagan: He will have his 20 years in tomorrow. Chief Bosch: He has submitted an inquiry about the DROP plan and what his benefits would be. Sondra Smith: The other question that was asked is if everyone that is serving is considered retired then how is Marion serving without being elected? Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 5 of 7 Kit Williams: The statue lists who is going to serve. The statue states, the Fire Chief or if the Fire Chief is not a member of the plan then the highest ranking member of the Fire Department who is a member. The statue does not say active or retired, it just says member. Therefore Marion does qualify as long as he is a member of the plan and a member of the Fire Department and the highest ranking member. Sondra Smith: Without having to be elected? Marion Doss: I think you researched that before I signed up on DROP. Kit Williams: We have elections coming up, whose term is up? Pete Reagan: Mine is. Sondra Smith: Danny Farrar, but he is automatically reelected as the active member. Kit Williams: Unless he retires or goes on DROP. Pete Reagan: We have to have nominations in April. Election of Boa Sondra Smith: I have a copy of the nomination forms that I am proposing to send out attached to the agenda for you to review. I would like to send this out March 1, 2004 but if Danny Farrar signs up that position will be an elected position. Pete Reagan: I would think he could continue to serve until his term is over. Sondra Smith: His term will be up May 31, 2004. That means that position would have to be elected. Pete Reagan: We can touch base with him. Marion Doss: Go ahead and send the nomination forms out. Kit Williams: I don't know if someone's status changes during their term if we would have to do something different at that time or not. Pete Reagan: We haven't in the past. When I signed up on DROP I continued to serve. Marion Doss: Should we list who is currently serving on the Board. Sondra Smith: The nomination forms states that Pete Reagan is currently serving in the retired member's position. I can send out with the nomination form a copy of everyone that is currently serving on the Board at this time if you would like for me to. Kit Williams: If you do that you need to show when their terms are up. Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 6 of 7 Sondra Smith: It shows their terms under their name. Kit Williams: I think it would be good to have the board listed so the retirees will know who is currently serving on the Board. Sondra Smith: We do not send the nomination forms to the widows or dependents that are drawing, just the retired firefighters. Pete Reagan: Yes, just the retirees and the members on DROP. Kit Williams: It doesn't really say in the statue who is allowed to elect but I know it is just the actual retirees and not the survivor's or beneficiaries. New Business: Kelly Skelton College Registration Marion Doss: You received the enrollment from Kelly Skelton. Sondra Smith: I stressed to her and Accounting also stressed to her that she has to get the Proof of Enrollment turned in sooner. I always send her a reminder notice. NCPERS 2004 Annual Conference Pete Reagan: If any of the Board members can go to this conference it is an excellent conference. I will be unable to attend. I have attended two of these. They have a pre -conference for new trustees. I would encourage anyone that can go to do so because it is a wealth of knowledge. Robert Johnson: Is that a major cost to our plan to send someone? Pete Reagan: No. Kit Williams: When you went Pete did the plan pay for the cost. Pete Reagan: Yes. I would love to go but I am going to be at the National Fire Academy. Pensions & Investments Publication Audit Sondra Smith: Do you want to continue receiving this publication? Marion Doss: It doesn't cost anything. Why don't we have it sent to the entire Pension Board. Firemen's Pension and Relief Fund Meeting Minutes February 26, 2004 Page 7 of 7 The Monitor Sondra Smith: A copy of the Monitor is attached to the agenda. Ashland Management Kit Williams: Ashland Management still has not responded to my letter that I sent them. Pete Reagan: I think you did an excellent job in drafting that letter. Kit Williams: I will let you know if they ever respond. Pete Reagan: Kit, do you have the Resolutions for the 10 year DROP and Working after DROP that will go before the Council completed? Sondra Smith: The agenda item never went around. It was stopped by the Mayor, I sent it for his signature and that is where it stopped. Kit Williams: He has to forward it to the Council whether he likes it or not. Sondra Smith: He wanted the Chief to write a memo and the Chief just finished the memo. I have a copy of the staff review form and the backup documentation. I will get you a copy so you can do the resolutions. Kit Williams: Some of you Board members need to present your side of the issue and present why the Board believes this is the right thing to do. Meeting Adjourned at 11:40 AM.