HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-03-13 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Fayetteville Planning Commission was held on March 13, 2006
at 5:30 p.m. in Room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ITEMS DISCUSSED ACTION TAKEN
FPL 06-1943: Final Plat (CLABBER CREEK III, 244) Approved
Page 4
R-PZD 06-1922: Planned Zoning District
(SCOTTSWOOD PLACE, 558)
Page 5
CUP 06-1992: Conditional Use Permit
(COMBS ST. CHURCH OF CHRIST, 524)
Page 6
LSD 06-1944: Large Scale Development
(COMBS ST. CHURCH OF CHRIST, 524)
Page 6
LSD 05-1809: Large Scale Development
(THE LOFTS @ UNDERWOOD PLAZA, 483)
Page 9
Tabled
Approved
Approved
Tabled
CUP 06-1952: Conditional Use Permit (HAYS, 373) Approved
Page 42
ADM 06-1958: Administrative Item
(MILLSAP CENTER PARKING LOT, 212)
Page 54
PPL 06-1940: Preliminary Plat
(COBBLESTONE CROSSING, 246)
Page 55
LSD 06-1924: Large Scale Development
(MALCO THEATRE, 173)
Page 59
CUP 06-1950: Conditional Use Permit (DAVIS, 559)
Page 67
RZN 06-1949: Rezoning (ELLIS, 569)
Page 71
Tabled
Approved
Approved
Approved
Denied
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 2
MEMBERS PRESENT
Nancy Allen
Jill Anthes
Candy Clark
James Graves
Audy Lack
Alan Ostner
Christian Vaught
Christine Myres
STAFF PRESENT
Jeremy Pate
Suzanne Morgan
Andrew Garner
Brent O'Neal
CITY ATTORNEY:
Kit Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Sean Trumbo
STAFF ABSENT
Jesse Fulcher
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 3
Welcome to the March 13, 2006 meeting of the Fayetteville Planning Commission. If we
could have the roll call please.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call Allen, Anthes, Clark, Graves, Lack,
Ostner and Vaught are present. (Myres present later)
Ostner: The first item on our agenda is the approval of the minutes from the
February 27, 2006 meeting.
Anthes: I move for approval of the minutes with these changes. Who do I give
them to?
Ostner: Staff.
Clark: Second.
Roll Call: The minutes are approved by a vote of 7-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 4
Consent Agenda:
FLP 06-1943: Final Plat (CLABBER CREEK III, 244): Submitted by H2
ENGINEERING, INC. for property located W. OF RUPPLE ROAD AND SALEM, N.
OF CLABBER CREEK PHASES I & II. The property is zoned RSF-4, SINGLE
FAMILY — 4 UNITS/ACRE and contains approximately 34,78 acres. The request is to
approve the final plat of a residential subdivision with 110 single family lots.
Ostner: If anyone in the audience or any of the Planning Commissioners would
like to hear this item, please speak now. Otherwise I will entertain a
motion to approve the consent agenda.
Clark: So moved.
Anthes: Second.
Roll Call: The motion to approve FLP 06-1943 carries by a vote of 7-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 5
Old Business:
Ostner: The applicant has requested we table this item, R-PZD 06-1922 for
Scottswood Place. Is there any information we need to know about this?
Pate: The applicant has simply requested that this be tabled until March 27,
2006, the next Planning Commission meeting.
Ostner: Do I have a motion to table this item?
Clark: So moved.
Allen: Second.
Roll Call: The motion to table R-PZD 06-1922 carries by a vote of 7-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 6
New Business:
CUP 06-1992: Conditional Use Permit (COMBS ST. CHURCH OF CHRIST, 524):
Submitted by STEVE CLARK for property located at 350 SOUTH COMBS AVENUE.
The property is zoned RMF -24, MULTI FAMILY — 24 UNITS/ACRES and contains
approximately 1.35 acres. The request is for a church (Use Unit 4) in an RMF -24 zoning
district.
LSD 06-1944: Large Scale Development (COMBS ST. CHURCH OF CHRIST,
524): Submitted by STEVE CLARK for property located at 350 SOUTH COMBS
AVENUE. The property is zoned RMF -24, MULTI FAMILY — 24 UNITS/ACRES and
contains approximately 1.35 acres. The request is for a 4,700 square foot building as
previously approved.
Garner: The Combs Street Church of Christ is located at 350 South Combs
Avenue. There is Conditional Use Permit and a Large Scale Development
on your agenda tonight and I will summarize both of these here. As a
background, a Large Scale Development and Conditional Use Permit for
this project was most recently approved in October of 2003 and received a
one-year approval extension in October 2004. They were unable to obtain
their building permits within the one-year timeframe, therefore their
approval expired, so that is why they are back before us today. The plans
are the same as those originally approved. The only difference before the
Planning Commission tonight — the lighting ordinance is now in effect and
at the time of the building permit, we would review the building plans for
conformance with the lighting ordinance. The Conditional Use Permit is
to allow for the addition to this Church. There is an elevation board there
showing the proposed addition. It is a 4,700 square foot addition to the
Church and a total of 56 parking spaces in conformance with parking
requirements for Church use. Staff finds that granting the Conditional Use
Permit in this location would not adversely affect the public. The Church
has been in a residential neighborhood for many years and the proposed
addition to the building and the site would be an improvement to the area
and the neighborhood. There would be improvements to the street that we
are recommending conditions of approval with a Large Scale
Development. The conditions of approval for the Conditional Use Permit
are relatively straight forward. We are recommending approval of both
the Conditional Use Permit and the Large Scale Development.
Ostner: Thank you. I will call for any public comment on these two issues, this
Conditional Use and Large Scale Development. If anyone cares to share
anything, please step forward. I will close the public comment section
and open it to the applicant for any presentation you would like to make.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 7
S.Clark:
Steve Clark, representing Combs Street Church of Christ. Basically,
Andrew summarized everything pretty clearly. We had this approved two
years ago and going through the Church's process to obtain funding for it
and commitments for funding, it took them a little bit longer than the two
years that was allowed. With the extension, the net result, is that we are
here again tonight to get it reapproved. We would like to have you
support this project.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Clark. Commissioners....
Anthes: I move that we approve CUP 06-1992 subject to the conditions as stated.
Allen: Second.
Clark: I have a question for Staff. Andrew, you have gotten no contact from the
public opposing this, correct?
Garner: No.
Clark: Okay.
Graves: A point of clarification from the motioner and seconder. I assume it that
on number one, you intend to find in favor of what Staff recommends?
Anthes: Yes, on the CUP.
Graves: I'm looking at the wrong one.
Roll Call: The motion to approve CUP 06-1992 carries by a vote of 7-0-0.
Ostner: The tandem item is for LSD 06-1944: Large Scale Development for
Combs Street Church of Christ. I will open it up for public comment. I
will close the public comment section and bring it back to the
Commission.
Anthes: I have a question on Conditional Approval #1. Staff, can you tell us why
you are not recommending curb and gutter on this section? This is on the
Fourth Street from Willow Avenue to Combs Street to the 20' street
section?
O'Neal:
Anthes:
In the previous approval from Planning Commission from 2004, I believe
that was approved with that specific condition.
Have you looked at it and agree with that?
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 8
O'Neal: Yes.
Clark: I will move to approve LSD 06-1944 with the conditions as stated. I
figured we left sidewalks off the first time and there was a good reason for
it. Sony, we have sidewalks, curb and gutter.
5.Clark:
The rest of the story on that is that section of street is currently about 12-
15' wide and it is just a short connection on the north side of the church
between 4th Street and Combs Street over to Willow Street. If we had
widened and put curb and gutter on our side, the street still would have
been substandard as far as total width. Plus the other side of the street is
just a chip and seal so what we worked out with Staff at that time was let
us go ahead and widen the street to give us a full 20' which gives it fire
access, plus what we are going to do is overlay the other side of the street
with some asphalt to give it a little bit higher structure and strength. So
we are not really saving money or doing less work, we just took a street
that was substandard and improved it enough to make it a fire access and
make meet the current standards of fire trucks.
Clark: I knew there was an explanation.
Ostner: That sounds familiar from three years ago. I believe Commissioner Clark
made the motion to approve this Large Scale Development. Is there a
second?
Allen: Second.
Roll Call: The motion to approve LSD 06-1944 carries by a vote of 7-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 9
LSD 05-1809: Large Scale Development (THE LOFTS @ UNDERWOOD PLAZA,
483): Submitted by GARVER ENGINEERS for property located at 607 W. DICKSON
STREET. The property is zoned C-3, CENTRAL COMMERCIAL, and contains
approximately 1.40 acres. The request is for a mixed use development with office, retail,
restaurant and residential space.
Garner: This site is at 607 W. Dickson Street. The site has approximately 1.4
acres and is zoned C-3, Central Commercial. To get your references on
where this is located; it is located just west of George's Majestic Lounge.
Underwood Jewelers is located on the other side of the property and
Dickson Street is along the northern property line and the SWEPCO
Fayetteville Utility Substation is located immediately south of the
property. The applicant proposes to develop a nine -story mixed use
building along with a parking garage. The nine -story building would have
approximately 9,400 square feet of commercial retail and office and 9,400
square feet of restaurant uses along with 77 condominium residential
units. The parking garage would be five stories in height and contain 256
parking spaces. Adjacent Master Street Plan streets are Dickson Street,
obviously and Powerhouse Avenue. Staff is recommending approval of
this large scale development with Conditions of Approval. Condition #1
is Planning Commission determination of Commercial Design Standards
and compatibility with surrounding commercial developments. Staff finds
that the proposed mixed use building as you can see on the elevations
there is compatible with the surrounding development and meets
Commercial Design Standards. The applicant may want to go into more
detail about it, but the design of the building steps back — the largest
height of the building from the street frontage to provide more of a
pedestrian scale as opposed to having a full nine stories right at the street —
in an attempt to make it more compatible with Dickson Street. Staff does
find that the parking garage structure that would be visible from Dickson
Street should be further articulated with materials and/or screens to screen
the concrete walls that are not compatible with the surrounding
development on Dickson Street. Condition #2 is Planning Commission
determination of street improvements. Staff recommends that street
improvements include constructing, repair or replace sidewalk and
landscaping along the project's Dickson Street frontage that might be
damaged during construction, and constructing the pavement for
Powerhouse Avenue as a full city standard street section on both sides,
with curb and gutter to be replaced as determined by the City Engineer on
the east side of Powerhouse Avenue. The other conditions of approval are
relatively standard. The other issue that was discussed at the Subdivision
Committee meeting (it was two times through Subdivision) involved a
large utility easement that SWEPCO was requesting along the eastern
property line and Staff has met with both the applicant and the utility
company on this issue and finds that this is a private utility easement and
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 10
Ostner:
Alexander:
that this issue should be worked out between the applicant and the utility
company. It is not for the City of Fayetteville to make a finding on that
particular issue. Other than that everything is pretty straight forward and I
would be happy to answer any questions you might have.
At this point I will call for any public comment.
My name is Fran Alexander. I have no arguments with Rob Sharp's
designs of anything so I don't want it to be construed that way, but I do
have a great concern about the height of this building in relationship to
Fayetteville as a whole. I'm not sure how much of what I have to say
would really be under your direction as a Planning Commission, but pick
out of this what you wish and hopefully my points will be worth
something in the long run. My parents got married in the 1930s and when
they were returning to Fayetteville from the South, as they approached
Fayetteville, they ran out of gas and my mother as a young bride said it
was okay, she could see the towers of Old Main and they were eventually
rescued on what was a gravel road at that time. We can still see Old Main
from I-540 coming from the south to the north. We can see Old Main
from I-540 from the north going south. You can see Old Main from
Lafayette when you are coming from east going west and quite frankly, I
don't know if you can see it from the west. But if this is the Athens of
Ozarks as we like to call it (I don't know if you all have heard that), but
that is an old term in Fayetteville. If we continue to build tall buildings in
our downtown area which will dwarf Old Main, we are essentially going
to cover up our Parthenon on our Acropolis and we won't be the Athens of
the Ozarks at least visually, any more. I believe that what we need to do is
understand the value of return. I totally comprehend that a building of this
size is what is needed for a return on the money invested because you have
to have more rental area in order to get a better return or break even point.
I do understand that for the developers. However, for the rest of
Fayetteville, to diminish Old Main, the view of Old Main and our
downtown area with tall buildings — if we start making canyons of our
streets — and this will really dominate more than this sloping perspective
that we have from the street here. I don't think they could set it quite far
enough back from Dickson Street to really give this impression. I may be
wrong about that. But I think that nine stories is entirely out of proportion
with the rest of Dickson Street and the loss of Old Main as our visual
center will be a detriment to the businesses on Dickson and everybody else
who has Fayetteville symbol there as their gathering point for this town.
And it is much more important than you realize. I think if you discuss
this with the tourist bureau in Little Rock, the State tourist department,
Old Main is the symbol of the University which is on so many things — the
towers are symbols of so many things in this town. I don't think we can
afford to bury them. That is what tall buildings will do. Our downtown
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 11
plan said that we wanted a traditional town, not a traditional city of tall
buildings. This we need to keep that in mind. I also want to point out that
this building will be on a higher plane closer to Old Main because of the
way the hill slopes there, rather than if it was on the down side of
Archibald Yell for example which begins to fall off down the hill and so
there you could build a taller building with more floors than would be
appropriate this close to Old Main. I hope that my comments will be
taken seriously because I think that we are in a real transition point in
Fayetteville. We could absolutely lose what our symbol is. Any questions
of me? Thank you.
Ostner: Any further public comment? I am going to close the public comment
section and bring it to the applicant for any presentation you might like to
make.
Sharp:
My name is Rob Sharp and I am the project architect on Underwood
Plaza. I would like to make a brief description of the project to add to
what Andrew mentioned and also talk about the height issue and our
intention to blend in and enhance the downtown environment. First of all
the enlarged site plan to explain the project. As you can see this is
Dickson Street along here, this is Powerhouse Drive. You remember
Powerhouse Drive used to have Dave's on Dickson as a one-story
nightclub. This was an old gas station — it used to be University Auto — it
was torn down, it is essentially a vacant lot. The SWEPCO's substation is
right here to the south of the project. Our intention with the project is to
provide the parking for the project against the power station nestled in to
the hillside here to allow us to align Powerhouse with a new building. It
would have terraces, street front, some apartments; and also it would allow
us to put our building here on Dickson Street where we can continue that
street edge that is already there and key into the Dickson Street
improvements that have already been made. The other thing we are doing
is a little pedestrian foot path between Qdobe which connects from
Dickson from Powerhouse. We envision this would be an area for
sidewalk cafes. That is what you see (point). This is Powerhouse, this
connects to Dickson to create a special place between the two streets. This
is the facade of the parking deck. (inaudible). The intention here again is
to conceal the parking deck from Dickson Street downtown. The building
materials are primarily a dark brick and we are also using some slate,
some stucco and copper flashings to blend in with the brick and stucco.
We think that picks up on the building that Fay Jones designed for
Underwood Jewelers back in the early sixties. Also, it matches the Qdobe
building that is directly to our east. On the issue of height, I certainly
agree with Fran Alexander that this is an issue for this community and
needs to be discussed, ordinances need to be reviewed and passed. As an
architect in this town, I am certainly going to abide by any ordinances that
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 12
get passed. I do feel that this meets the current zoning. I also feel it meets
the spirit of the new downtown Master Street Plan, and particularly we
have done everything to make a walkable environment. We are
encouraging downtown living. We have concealed our parking. We are
enhancing the experienced economy. I think that while the height is
something we are willing to discuss, overall in terms of the downtown
master plan, the process that we are in, I don't think we should discuss it
in terms of this particular building. Since it is now law yet and may not be
for another six months or a year. I will answer any questions.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Sharp. Commissioners.
Graves: A question for Staff or the City Attorney. Are there any things in the
current ordinances that allow the Planning Commission to restrict or limit
the heights in a C-3 and if so, what are they and what is our ability to do
that?
Pate:
With the current zoning in place, you will notice in your bulk and area
requirements, if you look under C-3 zoning, C-4 zoning, it says none,
there are no bulk and area regulations meaning there is no minimum size
or lot or frontage onto a lot, no minimum for building height. That is one
of the issues. I think, like with anything, Commercial Design Standards
apply in this case, because there are commercial uses proposed. And one
of those is compatibility and transition of other developments. We worked
hard on this project with Rob's office in the beginning in looking at ways
— they looked at ways to try to step the building back, the actual height, as
Andrew mentioned. The highest point is interior to the project and an
effort to make that more of a transition off of Powerhouse and off of
Dickson Street. For instance, the Dickson Street facade has four or five
stories and then it steps back to go to the higher facade on the Powerhouse
side. Looking at that drawing, it is two or three before it steps back and
then it steps back again to the higher facade. So it is not a full structure
that is nine stories. We believe they meet the intent of the Commercial
Design Standard component which is really the only thing that would
apply as far as building height, is looking at transition and compatibility
with other properties in this district.
Graves: I have a follow up question then for the City Attorney. Would the City
Attorney agree that the compatibility portion of the Commercial Design
Standards would include the height in comparison to other buildings or
does compatibility just mean the look and design itself?
Williams: I think compatibility to some extent take into account height, but it surely
could not control that issue. It is something you can look at like anything
else, but we have to keep in mind that at this point and especially when
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 13
Pate:
Allen:
this project was submitted which was several months ago, there was
nothing at that point that had been submitted to either the Planning
Commission or the City Council that had a height restriction in a C-3
zoning district. Therefore, I think that this project, height should only play
a minor part when you are looking at whether or not it is compatible. But
I think it is one factor you could look at. If they were proposing a 100
story building here, I think you might be able to say that there are
compatibility problems. Or if they refuse to step it back as they did. I
think that is another thing you could look at — if it was just a blank wall all
the way up for nine stories, I think then compatibility would be called
much more in question.
I just wanted to tag onto that very quickly — obviously Planning Staff is
concerned with the unlimited height requirement and limited ability to go
high in the downtown area. That is why we worked closely with the
community and the Planning Commission and City Council to establish
the vision and understand what types of structures, what heights are
compatible with certain areas of our downtown especially. And what
vision we have as a City to create that community. That is certainly
something that we all understand that the Planning Commission has made
a recommendation to the City Council with regard to height two weeks
ago at the Planning Commission meeting of the 27`h. As Mr. Williams
mentioned, this project was submitted back in October before we even had
formal discussions about these types of heights and the Planning
Commission came to a recommendation to the City Council. We are
going to continue this process to get to the City Council for this downtown
zoning code.
It is my understanding that the Arkansas Supreme Court says that the
fundamental purpose of a Planning Commission is to plan orderly growth.
And certainly that to me would include considering people that are already
there. That it is a two-way street. And orderly growth can and does occur
on Dickson, that doesn't impact people in terms of use and heights and
buildings like say Bordinos, for example. I feel that since we do not yet
have a downtown master plan, one that has not been passed, that we don't
have a blueprint in place by our City Council that would determine if this
is an appropriate height for this building. So therefore I would like to
move to table LSD 05-1809 until this has come through City Council.
Clark: Second.
Vaught: I would like to ask a question of Staff and the City Attorney. It is my
understanding that the regulations that control this building are the
regulations that are in place at the time of submittal, not what we pass in
the meantime. Is that not true?
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 14
Williams: I think that is correct. There is a provision that says that once a zoning has
been proposed such as a downtown master plan has been submitted to the
Planning Commission, then for a period not to exceed ninety days from
that date, plans or approvals may be withheld at that point in time.
However, this particular project has come in long before any plans were
submitted to the Planning Commission about this and therefore, they
would go without that, they would be outside that particular regulation. It
would be improper to hold them up because in fact, even if the City
Council went forward and passed the downtown master plan ordinances
which would limit the height or some other landmark building protection
zone that might limit the height to protect Old Main, they would not be
susceptible to that. We could not apply that retroactively to them and
therefore, I would think that tabling for that reason would not be an
appropriate thing to do because we still must judge them with the
ordinances that were in effect, a code that was in effect when they in fact
submitted their proposal to the Planning Department which was back in
October.
Vaught: That is one reason why I don't agree with tabling at this time. I think that
this speaks more to the fact that we need to pass our downtown master
code in a very prompt fashion. I hope it is a top priority at the City
Council and doesn't go the way of the Hillside Ordinance, because this is
only going to get worse in this area of town if we don't. We have no
height restriction over most of Dickson Street and downtown Fayetteville.
There is a lot of C-3 and C-4 zoning and I think that this building would
be the least of our concerns. I feel like they have done a great job trying to
meet the spirit although it wouldn't pass the downtown master code height
regulations which we do not have yet. They have done a great job
blending this building, using it to step it back and try to help it tie into the
existing structures around it. I do appreciate the fact that I believe it is
five stories on Dickson Street and then it steps back which we have even
talked about in the downtown master code, allowing a variance for them,
for people to go higher in certain areas if they do use things like step
backs. We can't say if it would meet those criteria or not. I still struggle
with the idea that that part of the Commercial Design Standards speaks to
height, the part that has been referenced about compatibility because for
one it is not a definitive rule, it is a should, not a shall in the code and two,
we specifically address heights in other areas of the code. I struggle with
the idea that we can use that part of the Commercial Design Standard to
cap a building like this when they have gone far above and beyond to try
to tie it in. So I will vote against it. I feel that this building is ready to be
voted on tonight and I feel more than anything this should encourage us to
contact our City Councilmen to please promptly move the downtown
master plan forward so we can have some rules to judge these projects by.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 15
Allen:
I want to follow up on my thoughts. I know I won't change
Commissioner Vaught's mind nor he mine, but I wanted to rebut that. I
did talk with David Newburn who is a Supreme Court Justice for Arkansas
about this a little bit today. I do feel like that when something is not, when
we have no downtown master plan, so we can't say that we are abiding by
that. Until we have a blueprint in place by our City Council, that it is our
responsibility as Planning Commissioners to protect people besides the
developer. The building is beautiful, Mr. Alexander has beautiful
buildings all over town. I have no problem at all with the looks of the
building. I just do believe that while I have learned very clearly that
developers have the right to develop, I also think that citizens have the
right to protections for where they live and they dwell and for us to impact
views and sunlight and the very looks and heart and soul of our
community, that to me is our responsibility as a Planning Commission.
Those decisions can be made by the Council. They have not yet seen the
downtown master plan. It has not been voted on.
Vaught: You have said that we are waiting for a downtown master plan; this
project should not be judged in anyway by the downtown master plan. It
should be judged by the code that we have today and the code when it was
submitted. And that is my whole contention. I am all for the downtown
master plan, I love it, I want to see it through. I am glad we get to vote on
it while I am still on the Commission. This project does not fall under it.
I don't know how we can hold it to those standards when they are passed.
Allen:
But I am saying, Christian, that our responsibility as a Planning
Commission is to plan orderly growth and that involves protecting the
people who are there.
Vaught: And it is also to uphold the code of the City more than anything and to
judge projects by the ordinances we have on the books.
Ostner: Thank you guys. I think that is the same point repeated. I am going to let
Mr. Alexander speak for a moment and then Commission Clark is next.
Alexander: Rick Alexander on behalf of the applicant. Some of you may or may not
know that we have been working on this project for about two years, long
before there was serious discussion about height limitations on the
downtown master plan. I am a proponent of the downtown master plan. I
have worked in support of that in many instances. The height that has
been recommended by the Planning Commission, in my opinion, is
arbitrary. I mean that with no disrespect. The City Council may or may
not adopt that height which is what I mean by that. They may adopt a six -
story height or an eight -story or nine -story height. At the time we started
working on this project, there was no height limitation and the cost of land
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 16
in many respects dictates height. Also, we are responding to other
directives that we thought we understood were coming from the City and
the City Council and that is density, infill... you get density in an urban
setting where land is expensive by going up. That was certainly our
driving factor in determining how to make this project, number one,
tasteful, using what I believe are materials in excess of what the design
standards would call for, design in excess of what design standards would
call for, bringing to the project a great personal cost to the project.
Enough parking, which is another concern of downtown development. So,
the project you see is the result of several years worth of work well before
there were height limitations. Many, many millions of dollars into this in
terms of land acquisition, engineering and architectural fees. I think it
would be unfair to hold us to a standard of height that is not currently law
- you nor I have any real expectations that will ultimately be the height
limitation. Again, it could be eight stories, nine stories, ten stories. The
City Council will adopt whatever it adopts. This is certainly not the tallest
building in town, two blocks is Hillcrest Towers — 12 stories, 13, if you
count the elevator cap on the top of it. The library probably comes in at
eight stories if you really count the height and not the true stories, since
many of the stories are 20' or whatever. Legacy Building is seven stories
and where it sits on the hill, it will probably be at a height equal to this
structure. This does not block Old Main from anybody's view. What it
does block is an ugly view of the power station that has been viewable
from Dickson Street for many years. This is in my opinion a much more
attractive alternative than that. As a practical matter, the power company
proposes to put 120' electric towers running down Powerhouse Drive. If
they do that, this will not be the tallest structure in that area. This is nine
stories from the back of the structure, eight stories from Dickson Street.
And again, I don't think it is fair to judge this project on regulations that
the City may or may not pass or ordinances that the City may or may not
pass. If they City does, that's fine. They may do that this year, they may
do that next year. I would rather be turned down so that I could appeal to
City Council rather than left in limbo where we continue to pay the
interest and the surcharges of a development that can't go forward for
want of a tabling until the City Council takes up the issue — the City
Council may never take up the issue. The Hillside Ordinance is a case in
point. That Hillside Ordinance may or may not reflect what the Planning
Commission sent to it, and it will be passed on the City's own good time.
Please don't leave us in limbo on this. For us, this is a matter of
significant financial impact to be left tabled until the City Council does or
does not do something. It would be an extreme outcome for us and what
do I tell my banker? All the money I borrowed, maybe I'll pay you back
when the City Council gets around to doing something? That is real
difficult. I believe, and I think I said in the prior meetings at Large Scale,
that it is the Planning Commission's job to judge this project on the basis
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 17
Lack:
ordinances that they currently exist, not on what we would like them to be
or what we think someone will make them, but on what truly is. As an
investor and one who owns the property, certainly I must make decisions
based on the ordinances as they exist. When I submit my plan to the City,
they want me to address the ordinances as they currently exist, not on how
I would like them to be or how I think they might be in the future, but
what the ordinances currently require of me and I think that is what I have
done. We think we have made an attractive project and it is something
that will benefit the downtown. It will certainly do those things that I have
heard others in the City government request and that is infill and density.
We bring that - in some respects this will be affordable in that the cost of
the units as a whole will be below the mean average for properties
marketed currently. Of course they will be smaller, but they will be
affordable in that they won't be $300,000 or $400,000 units. With respect
to looking at other issues and other desires of the City as we have heard
through various meetings — the Dover Kohl Master Plan not being the least
of which, I believe this project meets those concerns, meets the design
standards, does a lot of things in terms of density and infill and we would
certainly like to go forward. And if we cannot go forward, please do not
table us indefinitely. Please don't do that. I would rather be turned down
and appeal to the City Council. Don't leave us in limbo.
Just a few concerns. I was at the first Subdivision meeting that saw this
and the most recent, the two times it went through Subdivision. I think I
was somewhat alarmed from a design standpoint. You start to bring in
one building that is so much taller than the immediately surroundings that
currently exist. I think that that is obviously any sense of speculation of
what will be there which I don't know where that line is to the feasibility
of speculating of what will be there some day. But I also think that from a
design standpoint, I have learned lessons that you have to look at what is
in place and try to meet the regulations that are currently on the books and
with that I have a respect for that and a respect for the fact that the
regulations that currently on the books say that this is an okay building. I
think that with that, I have to respect that and feel a duty to that. When we
look at protecting the immediate surroundings and the buildings and
people that are immediately around this, I believe that they are basically
also C-3 with the same potential, so I am not sure that I see them as having
a greatly different potential or a buildability than what this building will
have. If everything goes through the way we have proposed it to City
Council, you will be able to do a six -story building which I would say if
this building were two stories shorter on the Dickson Street side, we
would still see it much the same which much the same height concerns
and the same views of Old Main that we see the potential to block would
still be of issue. If we imagine this rendering and only two stories being
taken off of the Dickson Street side of this building, that it would be little
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 18
Sharp:
Clark:
change to the impact. With that I feel that we would be out-of-bounds to
look at this from a regulation of the downtown master plan. While I think
the conformity with that and overall conformity of the height would be
admirable, I think that I would not support tabling this. I would be ready
to vote in the affirmative for it.
I have one comment as it relates to tabling. Commissioner Allen made a
comment that we don't have a downtown master plan in place. I would
say that we do in fact have a downtown plan in place and it is the Unified
Development Ordinance which addresses many aspects of design,
buildings, zoning, height, density, landscaping. I brought this image of the
E.J. Ball Plaza and where it sits on the Square. I think that is a
demonstration of a building that is about the same scale as our building
where the architect made no effort to meet what we would consider
Commercial Design Standards. There is a sheer wall up the street has no
windows that we can see; the other sides are all sheer pieces of glass.
There is a metal pipe snaking up the side of the building It has nothing to
do with its neighbors, the classic Victorian commercial buildings. I think
the type of development that you see there already we have ordinances to
prevent. We are constantly refining our ordinances and constantly
working on them as we test them in the real world. I think the building
that we are showing here is a reflection of the laws we have now which
are certainly the most stringent in the State of Arkansas for design,
materials and finishes. I don't agree that we don't have a law now, don't
have a plan. We have a plan and our plan continues to get better, our plan
continues to change. After the downtown master plan is passed, in two
years there will be amendments as things happen. We continue this
process. I would think to table it until we get the final law is a
misunderstanding because we are never going to get the final law. We do
have the law we have now, we have a law that is fairly stringent, we have
a Planning Staff that is very attentive about a lot of details. That
comment, I would ask that you not table the project and to in fact approve
it here tonight.
I will still support tabling this simply because I have concerns about it, but
if we were not to table, and that would be either defeated or withdrawn, I
would still be inclined to vote against this project. It has nothing to do
with the downtown master plan. I think you will be relieved to hear that.
I think your arguments are very compelling and correct, Mr. Alexander. It
has to do with the fact that the Commercial Design Standards talk about
compatibility with surrounding developments and I don't think a nine -
story building on Dickson Street does that. I also have issues and
concerns about traffic. Yes, you are talking density and infill and talking
about one street that really doesn't exist and another that can not be
expanding and that is Dickson Street. The Powerhouse, I don't believe
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 19
any improvement has been happening on Powerhouse Avenue. I'm not
sure those two in combination could carry the load for a five -story parking
garage to house all the vehicles for a nine -story building. Those are my
concerns. Also, I am very surprised that the University has not
commented on this in terms of view shed to Old Main and campus in
general. Because this does sit on a higher hill than just about anything. I
think it is a gorgeous building, I think if it was any place else. You talk
about a lot of other taller buildings around the area — I think if it was
anywhere else, I would probably be inclined to support it wholeheartedly.
But because of where it is, the unique location that is going to hold, it
diminishes the E. Faye Jones design to the west of it as well in terms of
the Underwood building which kind of surprises me a little bit. It
overwhelms it and I think that is the word that strikes me about this
particular project in where it is and it is overwhelming. I would hope that
it could be made shorter (for lack of a better technical term). I don't know
if the developers are willing to do that. I agree that perhaps we should
give you something to go on and either vote it up or down and let the
Council grasp and deal with height issues. If we depend upon it to get
done in the downtown master plan, as we have seen in Hillside Ordinance,
it just might not happen. Let them make the determination. But I will
oppose it as it is.
Graves: I was just going to say that I would be perplexed why we would table it if
the case is, which is our City Attorney has explained, that if you —
regardless of long you table it, a new plan is not going to apply to this
project based upon when they applied. So there is no advantage gained by
tabling this application, unless there are some grounds that haven't been
stated yet. If somebody has a problem with the design or something like
that and I'm not talking about the height — the materials and the other
things we normally look at on Commercial Design Standards. Sometimes
we have tabled in the past to work out things on those issues. The grounds
that I heard to table which is to wait and see what the City Council does
with the downtown master plan, which is not, I might add, not fully in
front of the City Council yet. We passed some portions of it. There is no
advantage gained by tabling on those grounds because it is not going to
apply to this project anyway. I would agree with the comments made by
Commissioner Lack and Commissioner Vaught and also by the applicant
that if you are concerned about the height of the building and you have
some grounds under the current ordinances to deny the application on that
basis, then don't vote to table, vote to deny on that basis tonight, and allow
the applicant to move the project forward under the current ordinances
which are after all what applies to their application. With respect to the
current ordinance, and I also want to echo what the applicant stated as far
as the ordinances. They are always changes; there is no time when the
ordinances freeze and that is the law so to speak. They are constantly
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 20
being modified, amended, changed, deleted, added to, etc. You will never
get to a time when you can say, here's the law, here is what it will be, this
is what it will always be. You have to go with what is on the books now
and when something comes through that you are concerned about, you
modify your ordinances accordingly and judge future applications on that
basis. We will modify them again when something else happens. Right
now we have the ordinances which we have which do not have a specific
height limitation in C-3. We have a specific height limitation in other
zoning categories, but not in this one. We have been told that we have
sort of a fall back with compatibility under the Commercial Design
Standards but I'm not comfortable denying a nine -story building on that
basis in comparison to what is in fairly close proximity such as Hillcrest
Towers and some other buildings. If it was forty stories or twenty-five
stories or whatever, I would feel comfortable saying that is incompatible
with what is there. When you are talking about what is in three or four
stories of what is around it, that does not seem incompatible to me. It
doesn't seem an appropriate basis. But that is my interpretation of what
we have been told we can do with the Commercial Design Standards.
Others of you may and clearly do, as Commissioner Clark stated, feel
differently. Well then, vote that way and vote that way tonight and don't
table it.
Allen: I would like to make it very clear to the applicant that I think it is a very
attractive building and I'm also very appreciate of things that you have
done in our community. This is not a personal attack, I hope you
understand that. I also understand your financial investments and your
concerns and with that I will withdraw my motion to table and move to
deny the project.
Ostner: First we have a withdrawal and the seconder needs to withdraw also.
Clark: I will withdraw also.
Ostner: There is another motion to deny.
Clark: I will second.
Sharp: I wanted to answer some questions on access and traffic and I'm sorry I
didn't explain better how this access works. This is Dickson and this is
Powerhouse. City Staff had the same concerns as Commissioner Clark did
as to how the traffic is going to work. And one of their first requirements,
maybe the first requirement, is that we do - this Powerhouse Avenue
currently — you may call an alley, but they request we add sidewalks all
along the east side, that we provide on -street parking. So this becomes a
real street, not only between here and Dickson but also sort of sets a
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 21
blueprint for the future to trying to connect Powerhouse and University as
that land develops, if it does in fact develop. There is also a second access
to the parking deck between Underwood's and our building, and so the
traffic issues have been studied by the Planning Staff and by us and we
feel that two accesses are more than adequate for 283 parking stalls. So if
there is a concern about traffic, I want you to do that we have looked at
that issue and are convinced that it would work and function properly.
Vaught: It concerns me a little bit how the Commercial Design Standards are
currently being interpreted by the Committee. I do not feel that the height
issue should be given as much weight in the Commercial Design
Standards. I see compatibility as a protection against neighboring uses
and when you have a use surrounding by other C-3 and C-4, this building
is very compatible. They have the full potential to build something ten,
fifteen stories next to it. There is no height limitation. The argument to
me that this building isn't compatible with the surrounding uses in an area
where we are promoting redevelopment, so we should expect
redevelopment. To me, it seems like an incorrect argument. That is not
what I feel like the Commercial Design Standards are set out to do. I feel
like if there is a specific height limitation desired, it should be listed in the
code. When we have an area with not bulk and area regulations, that is
what we have, especially in an area like this specifically zoned C-3 and C-
4 to promote the denser developments. It just baffles me; I don't know
what you guys think we will have if we want denser development.
Obviously, if you want density, you have to go up. So to me, it is not a
compatibility issue at all. I don't think that is a correct argument to be
making on the commercial design standards. I do feel that the applicant
has gone above and beyond to try not to make this an opposing structure
on Dickson Street by stepping it back and even it back on Powerhouse. I
think that the scale of the stories need to be looked at because you are
looking at a two-story building next door to this and the height of it comes
to the third story of this building. So we are not looking at something that
is so grossly different. I will vote against the denial. I feel like that is an
incorrect position. I feel like these developers have gone out of their way
to meet our current regulations.
Anthes: Couple of questions. I think in a Staff report, Staff had found that the
north facade of the parking garage that would be visible from Dickson
Street — you have some problems with articulation. It looks to me like the
elevations in our packet have the Underwood building removed. I don't
know now what part of this is actually exposed. Does the applicant have
an elevation that shows that?
Sharp: You are correct. When we originally submitted with the elevations with
the Underwood building in place you couldn't see the parking deck, and
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 22
they asked in order to see it place to remove the Underwood building, so
that you could actually see it. And what they are talking about is a half
block back from Dickson, you will see some parking deck ramping and
the reason for that is we want people to be aware that there is parking back
there. But it is a full half block off Dickson. As you drive by, you just get
a glimpse of it and we can certainly screen it if you think that is necessary,
but our feeling is that it would be detrimental because you wouldn't know
there was parking back there.
Anthes: Is the visual part about as wide as where it says parking entrance in the
elevation that was submitted? One bay between the one with the light
pole and then the
Sharp: If you will get this drawing, the north elevation dated March 2nd. This is
the ramping we are talking about. This is the stair tower to the parking
deck so we dressed out to conceal it, but we wanted to allow this little
glimpse of the ramping of the parking deck. Parking entrance is the
signage.
Anthes: Is about the width of the sign, about the width that would be exposed as
the building was shown in front of it?
Pate:
It is approximately 50'. It is the width of the drive aisle plus the parking
stalls between the Underwood building and the actual front of the building
facing onto Dickson Street.
Anthes: Can you just sketch in the Underwood building. I have another question
about signage from Staff. There is quite a lot of signage shown on these
elevations. Does any approval of this building indicate any approval of
that signage. Have you reviewed that quantity of the signage for
compliance?
Pate:
Anthes:
None whatsoever. We would review signage separately as a sign permit
in accordance with the ordinances we have in place at this time.
I have a couple of questions of our City Attorney. I believe that we do
have a policy document in place that is the downtown master plan. There
is not a codes and ordinances, but there has been a policy document that
have gone through this body and has been approved by City Council,
much as our General Plan 2020 has been through this body and approved
by City Council. Can you tell me what a policy document and general
vision like our general plan is and how we look at projects?
Williams: I don't really think that controls the development code. I think the
development code is what the Planning Commission is charged to
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 23
administer. If you are thinking about how to change it, you can certainly
look at the guides that 2020 Plan or the downtown master plan, but if the
code is specific on what they must do and they comply with the code, I
don't think we can go back to another document which is clearly not an
ordinance, doesn't have the power of an ordinance and say well this is a
guide of a plan for us and therefore despite the fact you are meeting our
code, we are not going to approve your plan. That is one of the things
when you are looking at - depends on how much discretion you have. In
a rezoning, you certainly have a lot more discretion to look at guides,
plans, the 2020 Plan and downtown master plan. When you have a large
scale development or a preliminary plat, you don't have nearly as much
discretion — basically at that point you look — have they complied with the
code? Or is there some section in the code that you can point to, that they
have not complied in order to turn down their development I think a lot
of it depends on what kind of question you are asking. In a rezoning, I
think yes, you could look at the downtown master plan as one of the
guides, just like you can look at the 2020 Plan and use that as one of the
factors that you would weigh to determine whether or not to recommend a
rezoning.
Anthes: To build on that, I believe that you were going to bring to this meeting
some verbiage from the Arkansas State Supreme Court about historic
buildings and adjacencies to historic buildings. Can you tell us what that
research says?
Williams: Well, actually, not from the State Supreme Court, but there is certainly a
statute that I looked at. It is a statute to protect monumental buildings and
control the height of other buildings in order to protect a monument
building, like Old Main. That is certainly an option that the Planning
Commission could recommend to the City Council to do — to establish a
district to protect Old Main as a monumental building. I think that
everyone pretty much agrees that it is the most important building in
Fayetteville. The University has done a lot to protect it, not to put
anything in the Old Main lawn. In years past, someone said let's put
parking there, we don't have enough parking for the University. There
were some plans at one time to put parking in front of Old Main, and
because of Old Main itself, those plans were rejected. They wanted to
preserve Old Main and its view for all of Fayetteville. I think that we
would be very justified if we wanted to go in that direction to create a
protection zone for Old Main which specifically — this statute specifically
allows to limit the height on structures within this zone. There would be
arguments on exactly how high, how tall the limitations should be, where
it would apply, how far away from Old Main. Those would be some
things you and the City Council would have to determine as the
appropriate standards, But we don't have that in place right now and it
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 24
hasn't been submitted anywhere. What I'm still looking at in the code is if
in fact that had been proposed before this project came forward, before
they submitted it, even if you have been talking about it for two years,
even if you bought the land — if you have not submitted the project when
you did and we had a proposal to protect or to restrict the height of
buildings to protect the view of Old Main or the downtown master plan
ordinances had been submitted to the City Council or to the Planning
Commission which does restrict the height in this area, that I would have
had to tell Mr. Alexander I'm sorry, even if you did all this planning, there
is a particular code section here that suspends your right to get a permit for
ninety days and gives the City Council that much time to work on it. But
that is not the case here. In this particular case, they submitted their
building plans back in October and therefore they are not susceptible to
this particular ninety -day waiting period like another developer would that
didn't submit as early as they did.
Anthes: So, to follow up on this historic building precedent, basically the
committee within the Planning Commission (the subcommittee of the
subcommittee) that is reviewing significant buildings, that would be the
piece of legislation that we would look to in establishing that. I'm not just
thinking about Old Main, obviously we have an E. Faye Jones building
next door to this project. So that is another issue. But that is a future
concern. I understand what you are saying that we have policy documents
that certain kinds of approvals have more discretion than others. I do want
to ask about the traffic safety and access issue. Staff, what is the breaking
point at which Staff requires or asks the applicant to provide us a traffic
study?
Pate:
For a residential development, it is 100 units. If a developer submits a
request or comes in for a pre -application meeting, we request a traffic
study if it has 100 dwelling units or more. That is a policy that has been in
place since about December, 2004.
Anthes: Are there any break points in Commercial construction?
Pate: No, we really haven't identified one. The reason for that is most very
large projects have a residential component to that. The Bellafont Phase II
development for example, out on Joyce has a lot of residential units and a
lot of commercial development. It was obvious that a traffic study was
needed for that. They commissioned that without us even asking. That
was part of the overall review process. We have really established a
square footage for that.
Anthes: When you say 100 units, that is 100 actual dwelling units, not bedrooms?
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 25
Pate:
Anthes:
Pate:
Anthes:
Pate:
Correct.
So this project has 77 units and 110 bedrooms, so you feel that it is under
the threshold of what we would require?
Yes.
The pole mounted lighting that is on top of parking structures, we have a
fabulous example of what that looks like in Fayetteville and it is not the
greatest. Can you talk about your review of the lighting on the top of this
parking deck?
With our new lighting ordinance which has been in place for a few months
now, we began that process by requiring light fixtures to be submitted
with a large scale development. It was not working at all, simply because
the final design of structures have not taken place when it is presented to
you. That is the point of the preliminary plat or large scale development.
Preliminary plans are submitted to you. In the final construction details,
that is typically when we look at those lighting fixtures. So at the time of
the building permit, our review would consist of requiring the lighting
engineer or the architect to supply us with cut sheets and information,
lighting plan, to understand exactly where fixtures would be located to
ensure they meet all of those requirements.
Anthes: Thank you. On your finding #11, talking about street trees and based on
the existing islands and the existing trees in the vicinity of Dickson Street,
that you are recommending two street trees instead of four. Are you
recommending that the other two trees be planted elsewhere on the
property?
Pate:
There is some mitigation required on this site and we are requiring those
trees because it is in an urban setting to be planted with structural soil and
the applicant has agreed to do that. It is located on the landscape plans
that you have. The reason for Dickson Street, with the improvements that
the City did, there are quite a few utilities and other constraints to actually
plant some of those, to have them mature at all. It was a desire to have,
based on — the wording of this is at the discretion of the City Urban
Forester who would be able to work with the applicant at the time of
construction to understand exactly what utility constraints there are.
Anthes: Speaking of utility constraints, I understand that from what Andrew told
us is that we are not able to look at this utility easement. Staff states in the
report that you feel that the 26' easement is inappropriate and obviously
we had at Subdivision talked to the developer and were interested in
moving the building more towards the sidewalk if this large easement
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 26
Pate:
wasn't required. Can you indulge us on where that might be, if you have
any news and the other thing is, I don't know what all drawings you have
there, but it would be advantageous for the public to understand what is
being proposed in case they would like to weigh in on it any time in the
future.
We first became aware of the easement issue when the applicant brought it
to our attention actually and we had a meeting with them. We
subsequently requested that this item be tabled at the Subdivision
Committee which is why it was heard twice. We had a meeting with
AEP/SWEPCO who is the electric provider in this area. You can see the
drawings there, superimposed photographic simulations by Rob Sharp's
office, obviously concerns Staff with the Old Main view. Other structures
especially when we are attempting to revitalized the downtown/Dickson
Street area. The indications to us that something of this nature, increasing
the height of the poles and installing a 161 Kv wire would be within the
next year or two and would come from the substation heading north across
Dickson street, in front of Old Main, probably down Gregg Avenue. We
did meet with the utility company on two different occasions to request
that they at least look at alternative routing or underground — burying
some of these lines underground for a portion of the frontage in the
downtown area or potentially in front of Old Main. They have said they
will at least look at that opportunity to reroute. There is obviously not a
commitment there. We felt that with this application that requiring that
large of an easement in the downtown easement, based on our current
codes which allow minimum setbacks of five feet or zero feet, depending
upon the zoning district, which would be both inconsistent and
incompatible with the goals of the City, both in current ordinances and
proposed ordinances that we have before us. We would not support a
dedication of an easement along this frontage of Powerhouse and the
downtown area. To add to that, the structure being located next to the
street, what I understand, is that there are clearance requirements for the
existing wires so if the larger wires were never installed, there is still
clearance requirements for the existing wires and therefore, the applicant
actually redesigned a portion of their property to accommodate those
clearance requirements.
Anthes: Thank you, Jeremy. I think for the record, the proposed height of those
poles is 120'?
Pate: I believe that is correct.
Anthes: I hope people are listening. Thank you for indulging my questions. While
I, too, am concerned about the height of this building, I feel pretty
strapped by what we have on the books right now in order to do anything
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 27
about it. I feel a little bit more comfortable. I think if the front facade was
four stories and stepped back in keeping with what we are going to be
requiring in the future, if that passes, I would feel that some screening on
the parking entrance facade on the north elevation would be beneficial. I
don't know to the degree of making any kind of masonry building front,
but just something that might conceal the ramping just a little bit, but
would still give the impression that there was parking available. I know,
for example, in the city of Hot Springs, they spent quite a bit to make a
parking deck to not look like a parking deck, then nobody parks there
because nobody knows what it is. I think there is a medium point to be
found there for a comfort level. And I guess I am cheered by Mr.
William's assertion that we may have some leeway in developments that
are being proposed after we have forwarded the code on which we have
done. That gives me some comfort in this issue.
Alexander: I just wanted to make a couple of comments. I'd like to address
Commission Clark's concern about the Underwood building. You may or
may not know that Mr. Underwood is a partner of this project. They fully
support it. We have an option to purchase the property next door, which I
hope some day to also do. As you know we have bought similar property
across the street and maintained the historical character and fabric of that.
With respect of judging this project in terms of its compatibility with
projects coming in the future, even if the City Council adopts a six -story
maximum, certainly you will see many six story buildings on Dickson
Street. When you judge this project in view of what is most likely to
come, you are talking about the difference on Dickson Street of two
stories. With respect to the view shed of Old Main, I walk this area every
day in attempt to at least not get more unhealthy than I am. I can tell you
that the height from this project to the top of the hill where Old Main sits
is a pretty good one. It keeps your heart going. Old Main is a seven -story
structure, possibly eight, depending on how you measure stories. It sits
on a very high knoll of one of the highest hills in town. This structure will
in no way top out any place close to the height of Old Main because of
where it sits below the hill that Old Main sits on. Again, we think that this
is a good addition in terms of a visual substitute to what you currently look
at which is the Powerhouse power station. We fought the issue of the
power poles because we think it is inappropriate both for this project as
well as what it would do for downtown. Again, hoping to make you more
comfortable with this project. We have given a lot of thought in terms of
this structure and we have taken into consideration the adjoining property
owners' view points. I think many of them, certainly the people that own
George's are proposing an addition to their structure. The train station
will be a project in the future. Again, with respect to the majority of this
project, it is residential, not commercial. That traffic associated with
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 28
residents living downtown and not commercial enterprise, like a restaurant
or music venue. I hope that answers some of your questions.
Ostner: I have a comment real quick and then I'll get to you, Mr. Nock. This is a
difficult issue for me. This would be a terrific asset for our downtown and
Dickson Street and it is a beautiful building. I am sad that we, as a City,
haven't mapped out our vision more thoroughly at this point. But they
need to know the rules they have to play by and that is why the ordinances
have to be so specific as a lot of us have mentioned. When you are
driving down the highway and they are changing the speed limit every
once in a while, that is not fair. They put it up and it stays and whatever
the sign says is the law. In a lot of ways, zoning is like a speed limit. It is
always there, we always forget about it, but it governs a lot of the things
that we do. My concern is much less dramatic or exciting. I was
interested in the tabling. I don't think this packet is ready. Ninety-five
percent of this design is ready to be built and meets the rules. I don't think
I can find for condition #1, the Commercial Design Standards. I don't like
the parking deck facing Dickson. Something does need to be fixed. I
believe this issue has come up before at Subdivision, possibly even twice.
I don't think the packet is ready. I think it is our charge to make that
finding. I can't find for that finding. I am also concerned about the
traffic. I understand this doesn't warrant a traffic study, but I believe a
pedestrian was killed two, three blocks away at Center and University, less
than a year ago. If I have that intersection correct. If I lived in this
building, I would not jump onto Dickson every morning. If I did, I would
probably head down University towards the intersection where the duck
pond is, which I believe where the pedestrian was killed. That intersection
is dangerous, it is substandard. I would like for this project, it would be
nice with the minimum frontage that this project has, with some off-site
improvement could happen toward that intersection. Possibly not
completely restructuring it, but possible contributing something toward it.
I'm not exactly sure of the specifics of that. But those are two things that
concern me. This is a very important project and I don't think it is ready
for my positive vote. I would like to table it, I will reluctantly vote against
it on safety and the Commercial Design Standards finding. Mr. Nock.
Nock:
My comment was just a short one a minute ago, but I am going to add
something to it. I just want to point out for the public's perspective that
those power lines are being proposed had nothing to do with the impact
that we are doing on this property. So, I don't want it to be misconstrued
by anyone that because we are building this building that they are going to
have to expand the power lines. That is completely separate from our
project. I wanted to address one thing that you, Allen, as chairman, have
commented. I'm not sure I am reading this wrong, but as far as I
understand it, our parking deck actually faces — the piece of it that faces
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March 13, 2006
Page 29
Allen:
Dickson Street is set back nearly half a block, so it being facing Dickson
Street is a little bit, not completely accurate. It does face it, a portion of it,
but it is very much inset from the street frontage. It is not like we have a
parking deck on the sidewalk of Dickson Street. And that may be what
you meant. The other piece where you see the parking deck from the
eastern exposure is made and screened to look like a warehouse property
which would be apropos to what you want to see in a urban fabric
environment. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but this
planning was specific to come off the road but at the same time allow easy
access so you would be able to avoid those accidents and things that might
come up.
To lobby my motion for anyone who might have not made their mind up,
but I wanted us to remember that if we decide to deny, of course the
applicant will appeal and the City Council will hear this and the bonus to
me about that is that it will give all of us an opportunity to be heard more
by the Council. They will be looking through our notes and seeing our
concerns when they make their decision. They are the ultimate decision-
making body. I think that would be advantageous for them to see that
there are some of us who are very concerned.
Merry -Ship: Addressing your concerns on the parking, we have worked to make almost
a three-way ingress/egress where you come in off Dickson Street either
two ways into the building and come out Powerhouse either to the north of
the south. In considering the proposed parking that would be almost
adjacent to the Walton Art Center or City proposed parking deck... I
don't know how much that would change if there was a parking deck right
next door with a railroad track between us. As far as in and out, Dickson
Street, side street. One other note I would like everyone to remember -
when the building we razed was a nightclub of a pretty good size — Dave's
on Dickson and I have been there for a few concerts. I have also noticed
the adjacent club next door. When you are talking about how many
people are parking and how many people versus 77 units, I've seen the
parking in that area on weekends, in the evening, in excess of 800-900
people. I just want to be sure is we are paying the price to build parking
on the requirement for the residential versus what was in there and is in
there now, I understand your concerns, but I don't see how we have
impacted anything more or less than what was already pre-existing. I'd
like you to keep that in mind.
Vaught: I guess I find it a little disconcerting that an argument be made that we
should deny this item so it would be appealed to City Council. I think it
would be unfair to the applicant that we do that. I feel that we would need
to deny on a basis that it does not meet our code. I feel like that is our
charge. As far as Commercial Design Standards go, I feel like that is an
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March 13, 2006
Page 30
issue that this body can resolve tonight. I don't find reason to vote against
it if you feel like the parking deck needs some more articulation or
screening or needs to be covered by a different material. That is definitely
something that we take up every day and give Staff direction on . They
could easily administer with understanding from us what is necessary. If
those are the issues holding it up, I would propose that that is something
that we can hash out at this level, for one, if that is the reason, we need to
give the developer reasons and an understanding on what they need to do
to meet those and our perspective, so when they came back through, they
would have an understanding of what was there and what we are expecting
from them at that point in time. Overall, I think it is a great looking
project. I do feel like something could be done to the fa9ade that faces
Dickson Street if it is painting it, covering it with a material similar to the
building. I would definitely understand that perspective. I don't have an
answer. I don't know if the developer or Staff has looked at that. Right
now, it just looks like bare concrete to me, which I fear would stick out.
Have you guys looked at different options — just the sliver that is visible
between the two buildings or over the top of the Underwood building.
What could be done. The corner part of the building you have done
extensive work on.
Alexander: Again, we want to see the articulation and the trouble we went to on
Powerhouse. We'd love to have a parking deck that would look like
something other than a parking deck. If it alleviated some of for instance,
some of Commissioner Ostner's concerns that we articulate that better, we
would be more than happy to do that. Tweaking of the project in that
regard is nothing. We fear or want to avoid — we are looking for an
attractive project; we are looking for an attractive parking deck. We do
want people to know that there is parking there so they will in fact come
and use that parking and take that parking off street. We intentionally
built the parking deck bigger than the numbers we needed to
accommodate our particular project in the hope that we take parking of the
street and that we actually supply parking for the adjacent project. That
was a concern of ours from the beginning and we hope we've done that.
That is certainly something we are trying to do. You all know the debate
about parking. We are trying to get a parking deck built at the Walton
Arts Center, one at the UBC. I will predict that this will be the first
parking deck in the Dickson Street area. So we want it to be attractive. In
terms of trying not to hit a moving target, if your concern is articulation of
the parking deck, we would be more than happy to articulate it in a
manner that made the Planning Commission feel better about the project.
And you can make that a condition of approval. But again, that allows us
to have a static target that we can understand what your concerns are, we
can then go out and address them and move forward with the project. So
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March 13, 2006
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we welcome that. I would hope that somehow it stills says parking —
come and park, that's what we want it to say, come and park.
Ostner: I would certainly want parking on Dickson.
Vaught: So the parking deck is open to the public, I assume paid parking.
Alexander: There will be parts of it that are reserved to the residents, but we will have
many spaces that will be open to the public. It will be an open parking
deck. It will provide parking for all of those businesses and I have one
across the street, the UARK Bowl, that has no parking, so when we have
functions there, you have to drive around and hope the kids aren't up in
the parking lot next to the fraternity house and get in there. That was by
design that we made a bigger parking deck. And it was by design that the
parking deck was used also to screen the Powerhouse unattractiveness. So
we've kind of taken what you looked at — that power grid and we have
basically screened that from Dickson Street. We thought we were doing a
good thing there. We would be glad to do more of a good thing if that
makes a difference.
Vaught: From my perspective and I think that other Commissioners would agree, I
would like to see similar materials from the surrounding buildings
incorporated on that facade, not to say you would have to do a liner
building or anything to that extent, but just something so it is not a
dramatic change in materials between the two building. That would be my
direction to Staff on that and I would think Staff would approve something
like that. I believe that leaves the applicant latitude to be creative in how
they cover that in an economical, but beautiful way. I think that the
overall the materials for the structure are very good looking.
Incorporating those somehow on the visible portions to Dickson Street
would go a long way in alleviating that concern. The other thing, I think
Jeremy mentioned earlier, was the light pole on top. That was the first
thing I saw and it sticks up real high. It is my understanding that it will be
reviewed and the ordinances will be met.
Alexander: We would obviously like as little of obtrusive lighting as possible to the
extent that you can still be safe. We will comply with the ordinances and
will put lighting up there that the City Staff thinks is appropriate. We are
not struggling with that at all.
Vaught: To follow up on the comments made earlier about denying, I would like to
point out as well that even if we pass this, if it is in our judgment that this
meets our current ordinances and we pass this, the public has the right to
appeal to the City Council as well. I think that is the more appropriate
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 32
measure to be used rather than us denying the project solely for the
purpose that it be appealed.
Ostner: I don't think that was ever stated. It was a completely different — it was
prediction of if it were appealed, this is the thing that would obviously
happen.
Allen: I wanted an opportunity to refute that I don't want this to get into the
Vaught -Allen show, but I think you took that out of context and think we
will have to respectfully agree to disagree.
Vaught: I do and I understand your point.
Williams: Just from a procedural point of view. It might be better than to have a
motion to deny, I look at eight commissioners so it takes five votes to pass
a motion tonight. I would suggest it would be better to have a motion to
approve and then you work on the conditions. If you don't want to
approve it, you vote against it and it fails and it can be appealed up. I
think that would be a lot cleaner because what if we divide 4-4 on a
motion to deny, that means the motion to deny fails but sitting in limbo. If
fact if it is a motion to approve and it goes 4-4, then the ruling is that it has
failed. But I think that would be better. And if you all would look at the
conditions of approval in case it might pass, to work on that, especially the
Commercial Design Standards. That would be my recommendation, just
from a procedural point of view.
Clark:
Sharp:
Clark:
Sharp:
I have a question for Staff or Rob, you may know this as well.
Powerhouse, the alley that is Powerhouse. It is going to continue to the
south and will it connect eventually to University?
The Master Street Plan that was just passed on the downtown streets
shows that as a stub out that ends at our property line. However, when we
were talking to Staff, if any one ever develops that property to the south
of us, they would like to encourage that that be developed as a full street
with sidewalks, street trees, lighting, to connect University and
Powerhouse — to make a smaller block. Right now it is a big super block
there.
But your project will not empty onto University. Both entrances and exits
go to Dickson.
There is an easement right now — you can get into the Powerhouse parking
lot — you can snake in there.
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March 13, 2006
Page 33
Clark: This plan, these street improvements do not touch that area at all. Your
entrance and exit, two of them are on Dickson?
Sharp:
We are encouraging traffic to go the other way, yes. We are not building
Powerhouse to any greater extent. We are building it up between Dickson
and our south property line; we are proposing to leave it as it.
Clark: The two appealing entrances and exits will be directly to Dickson.
Sharp: Right.
Lack: Looking through the packet of information that we have for this meeting, I
see that the 03/02/06 Subdivision Committee found in favor of the
elevations for Commercial Design Standards. While I wasn't on that
Subdivision Committee, I was on the previous one and I know that that
Subdivision Committee also found in favor of the elevations for
Commercial Design Standards. I know that from that, six of us have
reviewed that and have found in favor of the Commercial Design
Standards. Now that certainly doesn't mean that with added information
that a person can't change their mind or gain greater knowledge on that
and better insight. Personally, I have not found better insight on that. I
feel the elevations that I saw in Subdivision Committee that I was
comfortable with are the same elevations that I am looking at now. The
parking garage we talked about the parking garage visibility from the back
basically from the substation and the fact that is was addressed. I don't
have a problem with the parking garage, the narrow gap of visibility of the
parking garage that is approximately half a block back. I don't personally
have a problem with raw concrete. I don't think that is a bad thing. But
that would possibly go to some personal assessment there. But if we are
looking at something for parking screening, and if that is something my
fellow commissioners would want to look at, I think this same applicant
has screened a parking garage with a metal screening, a project that
recently came through and if that is something that other commissioners
would desire, that would be something that could be addressed to the
applicant.
Sharp:
Two brief comments. It was always our intention to have an attractive
entrance and if that is the issue that is keeping Commissioner Ostner from
accepting the project, then I would certainly respect his experience on the
Planning Commission not to back down on that issue and say we will
make that something that conceals the ramping of the parking deck,
conceals the headlights, but still has a parking entrance. The second
comment that Allen brought up is the death of the young man at Center
and University. I'm not a traffic engineer — I got interested in traffic
studies when Dover Kohl came to town the first time we were working on
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March 13, 2006
Page 34
the downtown master plan. I wondered why they brought a traffic planner
because I thought that was something you did out in the suburbs, but I
thought a lot of their comments about how narrowing streets slows down
traffic, on -street parking slows down traffic, lower scale street lighting,
instead of these big poles slows down traffic. I am concerned that Center
Street is this race track. It has a hill on each side so they can get a lot of
speed up. I think Center Street is kind of an anomaly of the downtown
area. It is the very kind of dome that we are trying to avoid, the kind of
development that we are trying to replace with a project like this that
comes ups to a street that has a wide sidewalk, narrow traffic lanes. I want
you to know that we take pedestrian traffic and circulating very seriously
on this project. We take automotive traffic very seriously. We are trying
to balance these. I hope this project won't be denied because something
that happened on a street that was designed to standards that are against
everything that we are presenting there tonight. Those two issues,
pedestrian safety and screening of the parking garage, we are going to do
everything we can to make those two things work.
Ostner: I appreciate that. It seems like my specific comments have been the focus
of the discussion. Specifically, I have no doubt that you can design a
solution for the parking garage. I'm reminded of four or five months ago
when the other project had a parking garage and that held things up for a
long time. It wasn't just a little nothing. I wasn't a thing that we just hand
over to Jeremy. We can hand off Commercial Design Standards if we feel
comfortable enough. We do not have to. You can never expect what you
do not inspect. It is part of our charge and I'm simply saying that this is
an important project and I think it needs to happen here with all the
formalities that are going on. I am concerned that it is stepped back.
Dover Kohl taught me very well that the build -to line can make or break a
street. A street is a living thing, the closeness creates a good atmosphere
for people. Its kind of like why does everyone mingle in the kitchen.
There is a huge living room with on one in it. It is intense, people like it,
they are close to each other, it is where the action is. This hole is part of
what Dover Kohl has told us this is not good, this does not help your
downtown. Do not leave holes. So the fact that nothing is there concerns
me also. The access in next to the Underwood building.
Inaudible — Sharp.
Ostner: There is a lot of ground, I want to say 100', 120'. I could see stepping
back 20'-30'. I think that what I see here at that perspective is probably a
30' step back. I'm just going over my concerns here. My point is not to
vote against this just because, my point is to try to crack this into a project
that I could vote for. I do think that that intersection is a problem; it is not
your fault, I am not blaming you for it. I'm simply suggesting that this
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March 13, 2006
Page 35
building with nine stories has a short amount of frontage and you have
done improvements to Powerhouse which is off site, it is not abutting your
project. In my mind, there is a balancing act of the impact and this is what
traffic studies try to do, how much impact, how much should be fixed. I
believe most of the smart drivers are going to go through that intersection.
They are not going to get on Dickson and go to West Street and turn south
to try to head towards the interstate that way. It would be great if they
parked their car for a month and walked to work. I am just illustrating my
concerns better. I would like to be here again in two weeks with a few
changes that I could vote for.
Myres: I was on both Subdivision Committees when this project came forward,
and the last one I chaired and it was my understanding when we approved
the Commercial Design Standards for the things that Staff mentioned,
specifically the parking garage, that that took into account their
recommendations and that is what we approved — the determination of
Commercial Design Standards for the parking garage based on
recommendations from Staff.
Pate: Actually, the Subdivision Committee voted in favor of the elevations that
were presented not what Staffs recommended changes.
Myres: We sure meant to. That was probably my fault. But in any case, I thought
what happened, didn't happen. I am also going to vote against this, not
just for no reason. I've always maintained that the height of this structure
is way out of scale with what is presently what is downtown. People keep
mentioning what is going to happen down there in the future. It hasn't
happened yet. I realize that certainly they have gone above and beyond
what is expected in terms in meeting the letter of the law. I know we have
been told over and over again that our judgments are based on code and
standards, what's legal and what isn't. But it bemuses me a little bit that
we are not expected to use our own judgment, that if it meets the letter of
the law, then it is okay, then we might as well just rubber stamp it. What
are we for, if it is not to bring to bear our experience as design
professionals and also interpreters of the spirit of the law or code. I have
no quarrel with the design of the building — I think it is spectacular. I
think it is more suited to a larger city than we are presently. I certainly
grant that you have done everything you possibly can to meet what is
required of you and then some. But in good conscience I can't vote for a
building that is going to dwarf the Underwood building that is so totally
out of scale of two and three-story structures that are presently there, that
will cast a huge shadow when the sun sets on part of Dickson Street for a
good part of the afternoon. There are a lot of reasons that are just my
personal feeling. Whether or not I can use that as a reason for casting a
vote, is certainly up for discussion, but I'm going to use it any way.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
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Ostner: We do have a call to decide for the Commercial Design Standards and
how that is specifically...
Sharp: Can we table this to get back with your concerns?
Osmer: We have a motion. That is an option.
Vaught: I know we have a motion on the table and I know we have a
recommendation from the City Attorney and now have a request from the
applicant. So, I was going to ask the motioners about what they felt about
their motions, if they want to do something different? I suppose a motion
to table supercedes the pending motion?
Alexander: We would like to do it until the next meeting.
Vaught: Mr. Chair, I will make a motion to table it until the next meeting. I feel
comfortable tabling it until the next meeting. I think if the applicant is
requesting it and we can decide at that point in time.
Ostner: Mr. Vaught has made a motion to table until two weeks from tonight. Is
there a second.
Lack: Second.
Anthes: If that passes, I believe the applicant needs to know what we would want
to see different. I think that what has been discussed is, of course, is the
elevations for the parking structure. I still have some questions for Staff in
my working through the conditions for approval earlier, I didn't go far
enough in what I wanted to talk about street improvements. I am looking
for what is the rational nexus and I'm looking at a Subdivision that we
would build 77 homes on it and some commercial space and what we
would ask for in connectivity and off-site street improvements. I'm not
sure how that relates when we starting doing downtown buildings because
we haven't done so many. It appears that we are basically off loading two
exits — there are three ways in and out of this property, two of them lead to
exactly the same place which is the intersection of Powerhouse/Gregg and
Dickson and the other one very close to the same point on Dickson, but
you could turn the other direction. With that many units in a typical
development that we would see, I would be looking for another way out.
I'm wondering if there are some off-site improvements that would meet
the rational nexus that could help us.
Pate: A couple of different things — one, a lot of the developments that you as a
Planning Commission see, especially preliminary plats or green infill
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 37
development, therefore there is no infrastructure. If they don't have
frontage, there are existing streets that are substandard for instance. A
benefit to infill development and developing a property that has already
been developed for over a hundred years is that you will benefit from the
infrastructure already in place there. Therefore, you have waited
essentially until the infrastructure has been placed there before you and
you then benefit from that previous investment. Same thing with water
lines and sewer lines — they are there. If they need upgrading, we would
review that. The same thing goes for street improvements. I would not
recommend at any rate that Dickson Street be improved to four lanes
sections or Powerhouse has a turn lane in both directions. Those are not
appropriate recommendations and our master street plan actually calls for
the right-of-way existing on these streets to be maintained. What that
means is essentially that street cross sections that you see now, we have
deemed appropriate for existing development and future development.
Our master street plan standards which are for future development for
anything a building permit is issued and infill development in the future.
In evaluation of that, what Dover Kohl suggested that those street
standards were appropriate for infill development. So we have to balance
those two things, the existing infrastructure with what is proposed I think
part of that balance is you as a Commission have to make a decision if
there are 1,000 units on this property, that is probably a little different and
we would have to look at something else and maybe it is not an
appropriate project even though there is no density limitations in C-3.
Those are the types of issues that you have to make a decision upon. We
as Staff feel that 77 units and less than 20,000 square feet of commercial
space, a lot of the users of space such as myself who live downtown —
several of the planners, we would walk to those spaces. The University
students that live in some of these spaces would walk to the University as
opposed to drive. So vehicle trips generated right there would decrease
with the property that is downtown and hopefully so, to decrease the
vehicle trips downtown. So as far as the rational nexus we didn't really
look beyond this immediate site to other intersections. We did require
both side of Powerhouse to be improved as opposed to one side as per
typical requirements. We required both to be curbed and guttered and to
widen that out to a full street section along this property and then in front
of the Qdobe building all the way to Dickson. The Dickson Street
improvements that the City installed two or three years ago now, we found
were adequate.
Anthes: When do you expect the connection from Powerhouse Drive south to
University might occur?
Pate: At this time there is gate there, it is never closed. So I think there is by
default cross access, an emergency access, if needed. Typically you will
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 38
keep that gate open, keep that access point open for that very reason. — to
allow for another access point into Powerhouse Seafood Restaurant and
everything there. When will it become an improved street? It all depends
on what SWEPCO does and will this decrease property values to develop
right next to that area as well as will there be general development on
University in total. There is obviously a large piece of property there in
the Powerhouse parking lot area that could redevelop. So it does have
potential.
Anthes: And is that area dedicated right now as a street oris it on private property?
Pate: The right-of-way used to go across the railroad into what is now the
Reinbeld (?) area, I think it has been purchased now. When the railroad
came through there, the right-of-way was vacated and ? stopped so right
now it goes further than what you see on your plats, but they have not
gone in that direction. It is actually a private drive once it leaves this
property.
Anthes: So there is no way to bank a fund to extend that because we don't know
the right-of-way at this point.
Pate: Correct.
Ostner: I would tend to be more interested instead of Powerhouse being brought
up to a full street section, that it is in essence a cul-de-sac at this point. It
is a temporary cul-de-sac, it is something we hope won't always be a dead
end. But I would be much more interested in that same amount of money
being spent somewhere nearby, very close, at an intersection that will be
impacted that is dangerous. If there were some numbers or amounts, some
dollar amounts that were proposed to be spent under this current situation
with Powerhouse Street being improved — I know that street is not perfect
but it is almost like a lane in a parking lot. People drive it but they don't
zoom, they are not going anywhere. They are slowly getting to the spot
right there that they know they are heading to. I don't as much see it as a
street, I know the City owns it. I would like to suggest that. Our second
determination is street improvements. Instead of improving Powerhouse,
curb and sidewalk both sides, it is basically a glorified alley right now.
But is does function fairly smoothly and I think it will function fairly
smoothly with this development. At another intersection like Center and
University, I believe Center Street curb to curb, has a 30' section. It is two
lanes that speed. Part of the reason people speed, I think, is that because
of the hills, but also it is extremely wide and I believe the chokers that
were put in on Dickson have really helped to slow down traffic. The curbs
have been brought in. There is a narrow spot that your car has to go and
you'd better watch it. We can see the curb beat to pieces by people who
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 39
weren't slowing and paying attention. I think chokers would be a great
place to spend money and improve that intersection. That is just the first
dangerous intersection nearby that in my mind, these people would use
heavily.
Anthes: You are speaking of an off-site improvement that would go to University
and Center?
Ostner: Possibly, instead of current off-site improvements on Powerhouse.
Clark:
Sharp:
I'm a tad confused. Powerhouse Drive — architecture, help me here. Are
you ending it, stubbing it out? You are not going to be able to leave your
parking deck, turn right, come up that little lane by the restaurant and get
out on University, or are you?
Currently you can get through there. You can drive through there
currently. The Planning Staff has asked that we improve that to full street
standards to the edge of our property and we are not going to close it off at
that point. It will remain like it is.
Clark: So it is an unintentional entrance and exit potentially. Can I get into the
parking deck off of University?
Sharp: Currently you can get from where our parking deck will be there — in the
future, I am looking for some direction from the Planning Staff, is that
something that is desirable, an extra point of entry.
Clark:
For me it would be. It would help funnel some off of Dickson Street. I
don't know if we can ask you to do that. But there is no right-of-way,
right Jeremy?
Alexander: It is private property. Even if I agreed with you, I don't know how I
would accomplish that unless the owner of that property wanted me to do
that. That property is private.
Clark: That answers my question. That means there is only Dickson Street. That
bothers me.
Sharp: One of the advantages of perhaps tabling tonight is that we could pursue
that, see that option with the adjacent property holder and say that
something came up that affects the property and we can come back in two
weeks and tell you what we found out.
Clark: To me that other entrance and exit other than Dickson Street would help
me in terms of the commercial aspect of the building as well — for
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 40
Sharp:
Clark:
Pate:
restaurant traffic, for people coming and going to shop, etc. Turning into
your property coming up Dickson Street, you are coming across traffic,
very near a light. I can see stacking problems there. If you can come into
it from the back — any pig trail is good for me — to get out of traffic. And
that would certainly alleviate some of my traffic concerns. But I don't
know if you can do it.
If it is related to traffic, there is fire department access and safety and we
had a meeting with Chief Curry and he has reviewed the issue and fire
hydrant elevations and places to park his fire truck. We have been taking
into consideration not only the traffic of the people that use the building,
but also the traffic generated by any rescue operations. It does meet all the
Fire Department standards and he is very happy with the layout and the
site planning. It has been reviewed not just by my office, the civil
engineers, and the Planning Staff, but also the Fire Department.
Was the Fire Department assuming it was going to connect, Jeremy? Or
widened. I can't see a fire truck going down that lane to get to the
southern access.
It would be once it was widened, but to follow up on both yours and
Commissioner Ostner's comments, I could not in good conscience
recommend to the Planning Commission approval of this project without
improvements to the existing Powerhouse. That would be a major point of
ingress/egress. It functions as an alley currently, but will not function —
this will have retail frontage and function very much as a street, albeit it
will dead end currently. That is my recommendation. Obviously the
Planning Commission can decide differently. I think it is something that
the applicant could pursue an access easement or at least talk to the
property owner to the south. I don't believe the Fire Department assumes
access through private property as an ingress/egress. They have to assume
property they have direct access to which is usually public right-of-way.
Clark: And I agree with you.
Allen: I feel we have appropriately patched this.
Ostner: I was about to ask that. We have a motion to table (supercedes) by
Commissioner Vaught, Commission Lack seconded it. Any further
appropriate comment, new comment. It has to be something new and I
might cut you off.....
Allen: To table it seems superfluous since I believe the Commission has made
their decisions as to how they prefer to vote.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 41
Vaught: I have a simple request. I would like this elevation to show — one that
shows the Underwood building so we can really know — I don't really
know what I'm looking at — I see this big parking deck and I know it is not
all visible. When I mentioned improvements to the parking structure, it
was this elevation facing Dickson.
Ostner: Rob sketched it on here if you want to see it.
Clark:
I would like to see something about the back and where the street is going
to end and what it is going to look like. We have never denied a
developer's request to table and I certainly don't intend to do so tonight.
We are tabling this tonight with the intent that the architects will look at
some of our comments and bring us back something in two weeks that will
look somewhat different. I am comfortable with that.
Ostner: This is a vote — you don't have to vote to table. It is still our motion, our
vote.
Anthes: I would be comfortable voting tonight with the added suggestion that we
were able to hash through the possibility of another street connection. I
feel that bears some study and if they are willing to do it, I would like to
support it.
Ostner: This is the motion to table.
Roll Call: The motion to table LSD 05-1809 carries by a vote of 6-2-0 (Allen and
Graves vote no)
Ostner: We will see you in two weeks.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 42
CUP 06-1952: Conditional Use Permit (HAYS, 373): Submitted by CRYSTAL
GOEDEREIS for property located at 1882 STARR DRIVE. The property is zoned RSF-
1, SINGLE FAMILY - 1 UNIT/ACRE and contains approximately 1.59 acres. The
request is for a change in non -conforming use, from a dental office to an attorney's office.
Morgan: This subject property is located on Starr Road. You may be familiar with
it. It was annexed in the summer of 2004 rezoned RSF-4 as part of the
annexation of island. On this property was a dental office and clinic. The
owner attempted to rezone the property to R -O so that this use would be a
conforming use on the property. This was tabled indefinitely by the City
Council. At this time the building is unoccupied, it has been since
September. The applicant has an opportunity to lease it to a law office.
Because it has been within six months, this nonconforming can still
remain, however, because it is a change in use — a dental office could go
into that office but since they would like to change the use to a law office,
they are requesting this conditional use. This is permissible as indicated
in the Unified Development Code. Staff finds that the law office proposal
is no more of an impact to the surrounding neighborhood as was the dental
office, in fact, we ran some trip generation calculations and found that a
law office would generate less traffic than a dental office. In review of the
findings that are required for a conditional use, Staff does recommend in
accordance with the Sidewalk Coordinator's recommendation that in lieu
of sidewalk construction, we have calculated the distance on this lot of
330' based on a lot split which was approved and filed (found on page 18
of your staff report). In addition signage will be limited to that which is
allowed in the RSF-1 zoning district which is a wall sign of 16 square feet.
There is an existing gravel drive which Staff is recommending be paved to
12' beyond the right-of-way per our requirement. The applicant a letter
which addresses all of the changes which will be occurring both to the
interior of the structure and exterior on the property currently proposed.
Staff finds that this will be a compatible and are recommending approval.
Ostner: I will call for any public comment for CUP 06-1952. Seeing none, I will
bring it back to the applicant for any presentation she would like to make.
Goedereis: I had an aerial picture of the property to show you. I blew it up so you
could see Starr Drive and exactly how the dental lab is located on the
property. We were forced to annex as you well know back in 2004 rather
than going for rezoning, what we did — after we found out that the dental
lab was no longer going to be there, we took applications and we had
many different people apply, even a daycare. What we found would be
most compatible for the neighbors was the law office. As Suzanne said, it
will generate less traffic, there is no foot traffic, very little customers —
mostly over the phone. Hours are more conducive to what they neighbors
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 43
would like. I mailed out fliers to all the existing neighbors and Starr Drive
Association president, Larry Wong and evidently everyone agreed. I only
heard from one person, Mr. Zang and he had some questions. As you can
see there is a buffer area between the building and the residences up
against Madison and he wanted to make sure that was going to be
maintained and it is. I take exception to #2 and #8 on the conditions. On
#8 I really don't take exception to it, the only thing I would ask — this
particular piece of property — we realize that Starr is identified as a
collector. Therefore, we went and did Crystal Cove in the back and did
the subdivision and broke off at Barrington and Madison, we realized that
you needed to have a easement coming across that piece of property so
that someday Starr could be that collector street. We voluntarily gave that
easement at the time. My question on #8 would be, is you want 12' from
right-of-way, I gave you 30', does that mean that you want me to pave the
whole driveway? Because that would be approximately 42'. I can
understand coming 12' off the existing street now for two reasons — one, a
car pulls out and it is gravel and there is asphalt and the cars coming up,
there is a slight hill there, you break off chips of the asphalt, I understand
that. So I could see paving that down 12' but I don't see a need to pave it
down 42' feet. I would ask for some qualifications and different
guidelines on that. On #2, I am really bewildered by this one. This one
blew me out of the water. When we gave that 30' easement across the
front of this property, we gave it to keep Starr a collector. I live out there,
I live on this property and have for three and half years. I understand that
we have a problem out there because what happens is, and I've argued this
back to Jeremy before, but when you have an existing sidewalk and then
no existing sidewalk, the kids use what the existing sidewalk is — they ride
their skateboards right down Swetzer Drive and they will shoot right out in
the middle of Starr. I understand that they want money in lieu, but what I
would propose instead of that, is let us construct the sidewalk when you
make Starr a collector. We will sign an agreement with you that we would
be glad to put that sidewalk in at our expense. A six foot sidewalk, I am
bewildered by that because there is four foot on the school and there is
four foot on Madison right now, coming up to Starr, so are we going to
have a four foot, a four foot and a six foot? That doesn't make much
sense to me. That is what I am asking, the reason for this is not to get by
with not paying the $5, 940 but to make sure that sidewalk gets completed
on Starr. The only way I can do that is to keep it in my hands. I can't
complete it now, because when Starr becomes collector, it would have to
be broken out and it won't be there once again. And I still don't
understand how we are going to obtain that. But I have looking at the
Master Plan and it makes a little more sense to me. Hopefully it will be
done before long. Those are the only comments. I have gone to great
lengths to meet with the neighbors and no one had any major problems.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 44
We did do this lease for five years so that you know I'm not trying to
change this use every year. This is not my idea of fun.
Ostner: Thank you. We will bring the issue back to the Commission.
Anthes: A question on the map that was included with our Staff report on page 18,
I am confused because it looks like the lot line goes directly through the
building. Can you tell us about that?
Morgan: That is correct. I don't really know how to best address this except that
whenever they were creating these lots, they did some lot line adjustments
and lot splits. The main point was to create tract 2 which would be
developed as a subdivision and to get the boundaries on that lot correct.
As you can see on this plat, J.B. Hays owns both pieces of property
therefore at the time, we felt that since they owned both pieces, then it
would be considered as one, they certainly could do a lot line adjustment
to create off of that existing structure with a setback so it could be sold in
the future and not have any problems with the property line location.
Anthes: The reason I bring that up is I believe that lot line adjustment can be done
administratively through the Planning Office. With the Conditional Use
that goes with the land, is it going with this legal description or how do we
do it?
Pate:
The Conditional Use is going with the project and property as described in
the application so our application describes this 1.59 acres and described
the structure. So I don't think it is really the uses for the structure itself,
regardless of that lot line location, so that's where it would apply.
Actually, with this particular Conditional Use the only way the Planning
Commission can approve it is if there are not major primary structural
alterations to the structure itself. So if the building came down or if there
were additions, actually there couldn't be any additions to that property.
As you know, the rezoning was table indefinitely at the City Council, so
really we are in a situ, in limbo situation where the structure is located
there, it is not zoned appropriately at this time with the exception of what
the Planning Commission can grant by Conditional Use.
Anthes: So, just for the record, because part of that building sits on tract 1 and we
are granting a Conditional Use for the building, that is in no way meant to
imply that we feel like that Conditional Use is appropriate for tract 1.
Pate:
Correct. It is for the structure already addressed and located on the
property and for the record, yes, it is for that existing structure at 1882
Starr Drive as identified in our 911 addressing system.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 45
Anthes: I have another question. Basically, if we extend this Conditional Use, it
changes the permitted use to a law office and it can never go back to
dental office again unless it came through again?
Pate: Correct.
Anthes: Will you discuss your recommendations on both the driveway — I believe
that in the Staff report, even in the findings, you recommended that a new
top coat of gravel be added to the entire length of the road and that didn't
make it into condition #8 and I wondered why. And then also the
sidewalk issue.
Pate:
The actual gravel was proposed by the applicant. It was simply a
reflection of what they included in their letter of the improvements that
they would be making to the property. That is why we did not include it
as part of the conditions. I think there is a bit of misunderstanding about
the 42' of paved access. For a collector street, it requires 35' from
centerline of the actual street, so they have dedicated 35' from the
centerline. It does not mean that we would request them to construct a
driveway 35' plus 12' into the property. It would mean we would request
and require by this Condition of Approval, with any residential property,
you are required to build the driveway from the road into the property,
then 12' with the sidewalk built through at the right-of-way line just for
the width of the driveway.
Anthes: So you are saying that if we were going to clarify that recommendation,
we would just say that the applicant pave the driveway approach a
minimum of 12' from the existing road rather than from the right-of-way.
Pate: It actually is paved from the road to the right-of-way and then 12'. That is
our typical requirement of a single-family home.
Anthes: Then is that the 42'?
Pate: The 42' I believe is referenced because — I'm not sure where the 42' came
from. We are simply requesting from the edge of the pavement, it be
paved in to the right-of-way line which is where the sidewalk would be
constructed through the driveway and then 12' beyond that.
Anthes: With the sidewalk, would it be possible for them to install the sidewalk
now rather than take money in lieu and put it at the point where it would
be required for when the road is widened?
Pate: That is a possibility. It would be much more expensive. That is the
reason why we recommended money in lieu at this time because there are
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 46
going to be some significant storm improvements that would have to occur
— there is an open ditch — it would require that that drainage to be
improved like with a storm pipe, underground storm drainage and the
sidewalk placed on top of that so that would actually incur a lot more cost
than what this recommendation is. As you know the Planning
Commission with any Conditional Use request by ordinance, the Sidewalk
Administrator visits the site and makes a recommendation of money in
lieu or sidewalk construction and we make that recommendation to you as
a Planning Commission. The applicant has the right to prove to the
Planning Commission and present evidence that the number of persons
served by the development, pedestrian trip generations, justify a reduced
contribution in lieu, if they can justify that to you based upon our
ordinance requirement, that is something the Planning Commission can
decide to reduce that. At this point in time, the requirement is $3.00 a
square foot and that 330' stems from the length, the frontage of that lot.
Anthes: If I could restate what the applicant said, I don't believe she had so much
trouble with the amount of the cost of that, but whether or not it would be
constructed along the property at any point or whether the City would take
it in lieu and then construct a sidewalk elsewhere.
Pate:
It would be utilized in the quadrant by ordinance so it would be within that
quadrant to repair and replace sidewalks. I would mention that there is an
emphasis in our sidewalk replacement and repair program on the schools
and obviously there is a school directly adjacent to this property so that is
something where an emphasis would be placed. As I mentioned, it
probably would require some significant street improvements to Starr
drive in general to do that, but obviously the contribution for that frontage
would already have been made.
Anthes: It is St. Joseph's school that is there? Obviously I would agree with the
applicant that I would like to see the sidewalk constructed at this point
however, once you find out the cost, you might be more willing to pay the
money in lieu. Have you looked at that?
Goedereis: It is not just the cost, it is the trees and everything in there. As far as it
goes with the money, no, it's not the money, Commissioner Anthes, that I
am arguing over, it is the fact that I want to make sure that sidewalk goes
in when it needs to be. That's why I would much rather give a, just as we
do a Conditional Use that runs with the land, give a thing that says when
the sidewalk is ready to be constructed, we will construct it. If we sell the
property, it runs with the ground. Just to be sure it gets constructed. The
6' sidewalk I'm still not sure of. The foot traffic, if I wanted to talk
money, we could argue all day long how this isn't the same, we have all
been through enough of that tonight. The only other thing I want to say is
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 47
the lot line adjustment was not done by us. One of the rezoning issues that
we were trying to do when we wanted to do the rezoning, was to correct
that problem. That's how we brought that property; we really didn't
realize it, because it was all one piece of property until we platted it out.
Anthes: I just have one last question and that is of Mr. Williams. Is there any
precedent for, and I believe she offered it, so I'm not presuming to offer
one for her, is there a precedence for a bill of assurance for sidewalk
construction or do we just need to take the money in lieu?
Williams- The only time that I am aware of that the City has gotten involved in that,
it usually has caused problems down the line, where the money was
returned because it wasn't built in time or there were other problems with
actually getting the sidewalk built when the City wanted it. I do have a
couple of comments. One is what you were concerned about and the other
Commissioners, with the line going through the house — the office
building. I don't think it would be out of line to require the applicant as
condition of approval to do a proper lot line adjustment to get the building
within this lot. I don't think it would be very difficult. I think it could be
handled administratively by our Staff. All it would require is a survey and
I think it would be accomplished. The other thing I am concerned about a
little about is the actual requirement of the sidewalk. That is what our
code requires, however, the code is subservient to the U.S. Constitution.
The Constitution says that we can require an exaction like this, a sidewalk
or something, as long as it bears a rough proportionality impact of this
development that we are allowing. There is no development here, it is just
changing from a dental office to law office and I think the Staff's report
indicated it would be less use, fewer people here. Because of that I don't
know if the City really has any constitutional power to require this
developer, this applicant, to pay any money toward sidewalks when there
has been no impact whatsoever that I can see on the need for sidewalks. I
think you can require a lot line adjustment because obviously it is not a
proper situation for a property line to go through an office — it is okay to
have law practice in part of that structure but if you are in the other
structure, you are off the lot. I guess you're not supposed to practice law
in that part of the office. That would be difficult to administer at least. I
would be concerned with both #2 where I don't think we have any impact
that we can point to to justify requirement of the sidewalk. And that is
what our ordinances say because often times a conditional use will in fact
have an impact. If you go from a residential single family and you are
going to put in a daycare, that's an impact so I think that sometimes it is
justified when there is a conditional use to require sidewalk and we have
in the past. In this particular case, I don't see any impact that would give
us the right to require this amount of money, even though it is a small
amount of money.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 48
Clark: Jeremy or Suzanne, did this have a Conditional Use running with it for the
dentist office.
Pate: No, it was an existing non -conforming use when it got annexed.
Clark: We didn't miss an opportunity at that point to require a sidewalk.
Williams: It was this condition when we annexed it in.
Vaught: I was thinking of the exact example sited when we went from a single
family to a daycare and we pro -rated the amount of the exaction on that.
As a non -conforming use, I don't know what to do. Typically we have
non -conforming uses when we are going from a single family to
something else so going to a non -conforming office to a conforming
situation, how do we measure or pro -rate that impact.
Williams- I think you just look at both of the uses whatever they were. They had a
right to use the dental office even though it was non -conforming, they had
a right and in fact were using it. I think it was more of a lab really than a
dental office. Since they are changing the use of it now, then they have to
come back and ask for a conditional use. But I think Constitutionally that
doesn't change whether there is an impact on our infrastructure needs and
I can't see one. Maybe there is one that I am missing, but I don't see an
impact that would justify us doing that.
Vaught: To follow up with Staff, my recollection was it was sort of a dental lab
which means to me it is a commercial use as well, but it is different in
nature than a dental office, which I know we used to generate the numbers
for stating traffic. It will obviously be different than a law office so I
don't know what I can compare that with. I do agree with the City
Attorney that we should add a condition to require the necessary lot line
adjustment to bring the structure onto the lot we are looking at. My one
question for Staff and the Commission - I'm ready to make a motion if we
can resolve that one issue. Right now, I am siding with the City Attorney
to strike that item altogether but I don't know if I have apples to apples
comparison. Was that considered? The additional impact to the site like
we had with the daycare on Mission?
Pate:
Vaught:
It would consider what impact this proposed use would have on that
property.
Compared to the dental lab that was there? I know in the past we used the
trip generation -type software to deal with that. Was that done here? I just
didn't see the numbers.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 49
Pate:
Clark:
Williams:
Goedereis:
Clark:
Goedereis:
Clark:
Ostner:
Anthes:
That is typically only done with actual vehicular traffic, not pedestrian
traffic. We don't have any means or methods to calculate actual
pedestrian traffic. I would assume it is higher in this are because of the
school, but again, as Mr. Williams noted, it doesn't necessarily mean it
would be higher. You as a Planning Commission has the right to waive or
vary that requirement based on Chapter 171.12, if you feel the
reproportional contribution of the developer is exceeding what you think
should be the burden of the developer or applicant, you can reduce that
requirement.
I think it is kind of an odd situation when the developer is saying they will
pay more in lieu to make sure the sidewalk gets built. That kind of
perplexes me because we have a developer willing to participate but City
Attorney saying they don't have to as opposed to us saying you have to,
the City Attorney is saying you don't have to.
They can voluntarily do that.
The only reason that I want to do it right now, I don't know,
Commissioner Clark, where that road is going. All I know is that I am
trying to hold on to funds from my boss so that he doesn't say we paid for
that sidewalk once, we are not paying for it again, when I live out there
and I almost run over everybody almost every other day. I just want to
make sure the sidewalk goes in that particular ---- that is why I offered the
bill of assurance that runs along with it.
What about agreeing to a new condition that makes you do the lot line
adjustment?
The lot line adjustment is no problem. The only reason I hadn't done the
lot line adjustment, that property has been surveyed umpteen hundred
times. The only reason I hadn't is because we may bring up the rezoning
depending upon this issue.
It seems to me it would make it much cleaner if we require the lot line
adjustment even if the rezoning comes back through. It would make sure
this house clearly where this house is as opposed to breeching the gap
between two lots. So I would like to add that as an additional condition of
approval however you would like to do it.
We have a condition #10 being offered that lot line adjustment will be
appropriately processed.
Second.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 50
Clark: When we approve the conditional use, that will be a condition.
Vaught: I have a comment on fees in lieu, the reason we set that up is so that you
know your exposure and we need that money in the system. I don't like
the idea of a bill of assurance because it is questionable, it's out there, it
hangs. It has to be for a specific amount as well, typically, I would think.
I don't think we can make that open ended. The idea is that you pay this
amount and then the City who has plans to widen this road, it is next to a
school, it is a priority area, they pay whatever it takes at that point in time.
The argument against the fee in lieu to guarantee your sidewalk is built on
your property, I understand your argument but this is our policy, we will
use the money in your area if we require it. Right now I think we are
talking about whether or not we require it.
Goederies: And I agree. I could have argued that point from the beginning but I
wanted you to know where I was coming from. It is not the matter wholly
of the money as I want to see those sidewalks constructed out there
probably as much as, probably more than you do because I live in there
and I have to see the children out on the street all the time that I almost run
over, on their bicycles, on their skateboards. That is a dangerous thing.
And hopefully all of that will be resolved within the next five years. As of
now, however you want to justify it, Commissioner Vaught, works for me.
Ostner: I would encourage you to participate in the Street Committee. They look
at things like this all the time and they make decisions and they enclose
ditches and lay sidewalks and curbs in certain parts of town all the time.
Graves: Just addressing the sidewalk issue, I think there was a question about
where maybe different Commissioners stood on it and given what the City
Attorney has stated, we have some information as Jeremy indicated on
vehicular trips but that first of all relates to a dental office rather than a
dental lab, which really doesn't have traffic and second, we don't have any
foot traffic data. I would tend to think that a law office could generate
more foot traffic than a dental lab, but that may be wishful thinking as a
lawyer, I don't know. I'm not sure I have a rational basis for that feeling
and the rough proportionality we have to have some kind of rationality in
order to determine. I think anything that I tried to do as far as assessing a
percentage of this, if we said 25% or 50% of the normal fees in lieu,
would just be grabbing something out of the air rather than having a
rational basis for it. I would be in support of just striking that at this point
in time.
Osnter: I have been thinking about it and I would probably not be in support of
striking only because in essence, when this was annexed, one way to think
about it is the zoning was changed, no zoning at all and suddenly they
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 51
Pate:
were in RSF-1. How much they had to do with it is really beside the point
but when we look at rezonings and buildings that, businesses that are
going into or that the rezoning has changed around them. We look at them
a little bit differently. Even though this new tenant is going to be working
on the inside, there is a big list of all the things he is doing.... It is a pretty
intense remodel. It is not just move in and change your business cards. I
think a good case could be made that this is a development situation.
There is a lot of paint, sheetrock and carpet I think development is going
on and I think a sidewalk is warranted. The fact that there was no decision
should a sidewalk go in when it was annexed, is really just part of the
process that is not looked at. When we rezone, we simply look at is this
the highest and best use of a piece of property. It is the same with
annexing. The sidewalk decision, like signage and all kinds of other
things are decided on down the line and I think tonight in on down the line
and I think the sidewalk is warranted and can be defended. I would be
willing to instead of charge for 330' times 6' wide, I would be willing to
charge 330' times 4' wide which comes to 1,320 square foot of sidewalk
which comes to $3,960, in a point of fairness. But that is where I stand on
that.
May I recommend procedurally, it would probably be a better idea to vote
on that item separately from the motion to approve or deny the conditional
use.
Ostner: That is a great idea.
Graves: I was about to move for the sake of discussion that when we vote on the
conditional use, that it not contain condition #2.
Ostner: We have a motion to remove condition #2.
Vaught: Second.
Anthes: I'm looking at this and saying, what are we changing and what is the
request. We have a property zoned RSF-1 that we are going to grant a
commercial use to so in that respect, I believe we are actually increasing
the use on the property with this action and therefore, are we in our rights
to assess for a sidewalk? I think we have an applicant that has already
stated willingness in that regard, understands the need for it and I would
be, in the interest of compromise, willing to support Commissioner
Ostner's reduction to a 4', since there is 4' on either side. But I will vote
against the motion to strike.
Clark: I mirror Commissioner Anthes, especially, and only because the petitioner
is wanting a sidewalk there. And if I'm not mistaken, the more money
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 52
that accumulates in the quadrant puts pressure on actually seeing it done.
So if you contribute, you are adding money and weight to the argument
that this needs to be accomplished. Normally, if the applicant was
opposed to it, I would heed Counsel's warning on this, but I don't think
you are going to court over this. I am going to vote against the motion but
I will support, follow that with an amendment to make a motion to pass
the conditional use with your alterations.
Ostner: For Staff, isn't there a caveat in this amount that if it is not spent within a
certain timeframe, it is returned?
Pate: One year.
Ostner: The quadrant has one year to come up with a good use of this money
otherwise they will return it to you.
Goedereis: The only exception I take to that, Commissioner Anthes, and I whole
heartedly understand, but we were a commercial unit before, it was not our
fault we were annexed. I'm not going there with you, I don't want to go
there with you. I will accept what you propose and be glad to do it, as
long as that sidewalk gets constructed with my $3,960 will be good. I
know Commissioner Chair, that you can't guarantee that.
Ostner: And the chances are high that it won't happen in front of your property
especially with all the drainage improvements required.
Goedereis: But I can go to the Street Committee.
Ostner: Yes, you can, as can your neighbors.
Vaught: It may not happen with your money, but it will happen.
Ostner: We have a motion to remove condition #2. Any other discussion on that?
Roll Call: The motion to remove condition #2 fails by a vote of 3-5-0.
Clark: I would move that we approve CUP 06-1952 with the following
recommendations of Staff with the exception on condition #2 by inserting
4' sidewalk or $3,960 if that is the correct math, and inserting a condition
#10 that a lot line adjustment be made to bring this home into one lot or
the other.
Myres: Second.
Ostner: Any further discussion?
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March 13, 2006
Page 53
Allen: Since I presume this will pass, I wanted to comment to the applicant that I
appreciate your involvement in the neighborhood. Thank you.
Clark: The motion does mean into Lot 1, Tract 3, rather.
Ostner: Is that clear to Staff?
Pate: Yes.
Graves: To be clear, this was not in my mind a referendum on whether there ought
to be sidewalk out there. There should be but I'm not sure we can connect
it appropriately to the amount of impact that this changed commercial use
is going to have in the area, so I will be voting against this motion as well.
Vaught: I concur with Commission Graves but I will vote for it, simply for the fact
that I believe that a Conditional Use requires 6votes?
Williams: It requires 5 affirmative votes.
Vaught: It is an issue if the applicant is willing not disputing it, so I would hate to
see it fail on an issue we are having.
Ostner: We do have our issues.
Roll Call: The motion to approve CUP 06-1952 passes by a vote of 7-1-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 54
ADM 06-1958: Administrative Item (MILLSAP CENTER PARKING LOT, 212):
Submitted by Crafton, Tull & Associates for property located at 438 & 516 MILLSAP
ROAD. The property is zoned C-2, THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL and contains
approximately 3.60 acres. The requirement is for a 15' green space buffer. The request is
for a variance of the required 15' of green space buffer to allow for 3' of green space
along a public right-of-way.
Morgan:
Clark:
Myres:
Ostner:
The applicant has requested that this item be table until March 27111. If you
would like any information, I would be happy to give it to you.
So moved.
Second.
Does the applicant have anything to say? Does anyone from the public
come to speak about this issue? I'll close the public comment Any
comment before we vote?
Clark: Are you anticipating new plats?
Pate: Please keep your plats.
Vaught: Simply because they are not here, we are tabling?
Morgan: The applicant has some questions about the Staff report after receiving it
on Friday and would like to have a meeting with Staff and their attorney to
discuss some of these items and regulations.
Roll Call: The motion to table ADM 06-1958 carries by a vote of 6-2-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 55
PPL 06-1940: Preliminary Plat (COBBLESTONE CROSSING, 246): Submitted by
JORGENSEN & ASSOCIATES for property located NE OF CRYSTAL SPRINGS
PHASES I & III. The property is zoned RSF-4, SINGLE FAMILY - 4 UNITS/ACRE
and contains approximately 60.28 acres. The request is for a residential subdivision with
194 single family dwellings proposed
Morgan: This subject property is located off of Salem Road, east of Salem Road,
adjacent to Crystal Springs Phase I and Rockhaven Subdivision which is
currently under construction. It is located north of Crystal Springs Phase
III. The property is zoned RSF-4 and contains approximately 60 acres.
The applicant would request a subdivision of this property for 194 single-
family lots with a density of 3.2 dwelling units per acre. Property to the
east of this subject property was once approved for the development of
Laureate Fields subdivision. This property was recently purchased by the
Fayetteville School District and they have submitted a letter withdrawing
all approvals, thereby allowing the applicant the ability to propose stub
outs and not having to connect to the originally approved stub outs in
Laureate Hills. There are two collector streets located through this
subdivision, first being Raven Lane which is constructed through Crystal
Springs Phase III and it traverses north and stubs out to the property to the
northwest of this piece of property. Additionally there is a collector street,
it was formerly Gypsum Street — there was a Master Street Plan
amendment that moved this collector street to the north through
Rockhaven and the applicant is proposing to continue that collector street
through this subdivision and stub out to the east. The applicant proposes
to dedicate not only this right-of-way, but internal right-of-way at 50' and
42' each. The applicant did modify the plat since Subdivision Committee
to provide these smaller street sections on streets that were less traveled.
Street improvements have been explained in condition #1 — this subject
piece of property is unusual in that it is not located on a street on which we
typically require street improvements. They will be constructing all of the
interior streets in the property, however, Staff does recommend off-site
improvements, those to include $70,000 contribution for a traffic signal at
Mt. Comfort and Salem as well as an amount of $21,447 for construction
of a left turn lane on Salem onto Mt. Comfort Road. Additionally, the
developer will contribute $2,622 for a turn lane on Salem Road from the
collector street that will be constructed through Rockhaven. This
contribution will be submitted to the City and distributed to the party
responsible for constructing that improvement. The applicant has included
schematic designs for those improvements and they are located within the
Staff report. Additionally, the applicant will be required to mitigate for
tree preservation. If you look in your conditions of approval, we are
recommending approval with 19 conditions. We have signed conditions
of approval from the applicant. It does require Planning Commission
determination of off-site improvements as well as determination of
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March 13, 2006
Page 56
appropriate connectivity and compliance with the Master Street Plan
which Staff is recommending in support of, based on the changes
submitted by the applicant and additionally, Planning Commission
determination of approval of street width is requested. The applicant has
modified the plat to comply with the recommendations of Staff as well as
the Subdivision Committee. As with all new developments in the west
Fayetteville, we are requesting a potential guarantee for contributions for
an interim solution to the wastewater passage.
Ostner: At this time I will call for public comment. If anyone would like to
respond to this preliminary plat. Seeing none I will close the public
comment and ask the applicant for any presentation they might have.
Jorgensen: I am Boyd Jorgensen with Jorgensen & Associates, along with Charlie
Sloan on this project. We have met with Planning Staff and made our
appropriate changes and hopefully they have been reflected in the plats
provided. Any questions or comments or concerns previous to this
meeting have been addressed and any that you may have, I will be glad to
answer.
Vaught: I have one question for Staff on the streets. We have approved a
subdivision next to this that they are now stating will not be developed.
And knowing that the public schools have purchased the property next
door, they have no plans so we cannot base our decision on Master Street
Plan and where it should connect to the neighboring property at this time, I
guess that is something they deal with when they come forward? It seems
like we are cutting the property next door in half with this connector street
which makes sense. Will it ever connect through?
Pate:
Sloan:
Yes, the school would have to comply with the Master Street Plan just like
any other developer. Mr. Sloan has spoken to the school about that
location and I believe located it so that something could occur.
To answer that question, we met with the School and allowed them to
place that street where they wanted it. We thought they would want to be
all the way to the south — they don't want that. They want to be able to
split it so they can put athletic facilities on the southern part of this
property I assume is what they are going to do and the school on the other
side, so you don't have to drive through the school itself to get to a
stadium or football field or whatever.
Vaught: That is good to know. I know sometimes when we deal with other
governmental entities, we don't have as much control as we would like.
Just making sure.
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March 13, 2006
Page 57
Sloan:
No, we put it right where they wanted it. The northern street we complied,
Zacannti Drive, we connected it to the east. They weren't too sure about
having that, but that is what the City wanted.
Anthes: Question for Staff for clarification about the rationale about the parkland
dedication and taking money in lieu. As far as I understand or remember,
Laureate Field had public parkland that was being dedicated which would
indicate to me that Parks felt that parkland in this area was appropriate.
Do they consider that this will be a school and there will be play fields,
something to cause this development not to need a park?
Pate:
I think more so they are considering the Park West Development which
was not in place at the time Laureate Fields came through, which is a
much larger project and could potentially result in a much larger parkland
dedication and trail system, rather than a small pocket, neighborhood park.
I think that is what they are considering more so than the school. I know
we considered the school as shared, open space in the past, but we were
trying to move away from that somewhat.
Anthes: So it is really about Park West and that being within the distance.
Pate:
That and obviously there are ball fields and parks in this area to the west
that are already developed so that does provide open space and green
space that is already developed here.
Anthes: I would like to say that I am pleased to see this many connections in this
property. Unfortunately with this school next door, I now wish this
property was zoned something more dense than RSF-4. It think when we
have this kind of proximity to a school, that we are actually looking at a
development that is too low, but that I understand that this is what it is
zoned and Mr. Sloan has every right to build to that zoning.
Clark:
Question for Staff. Fayetteville has two Salems, we are talking about the
one running north and south, not east and west on these street
improvements.
Pate: Correct.
Clark:
I absolutely applaud the improvements to intersection at Mt. Comfort —
that is long needed. We have heard lots and lots of talk about it being
done, but now we have a developer that is going to stand up and do it. It is
far, far from your development but it is going to be critical to it and I
really applaud that insight and willingness to go above and beyond and I
will make the motion that we approve PPL 06-1940 with the conditions as
stated.
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March 13, 2006
Page 58
Myres: Second.
Ostner: Any further discussion? Call the roll.
Roll Call: The motion to approve PPL 06-1940 carries by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 59
LSD 06-1924: Large Scale Development (MALCO THEATRE, 173): Submitted by
MCCLELLAND CONSULTING ENGINEERS for property located at LOT 9B, CMN
BUSINESS PARK II, PH. I. The property is zoned C-2, THOROUGHFARE
COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 12.92 acres. The request is for a 44,315 sq.
ft. motion picture theatre.
Morgan: This is property that is located on Steele and Joyce Blvds. It contains
approximately 13 acres and is west of Wal-Mart. The property is zoned
C-2 and the applicant requests approval of the development of a 44,315
square foot theatre that will seat approximately 1,900 people. There are as
you can see on the site plan, there is room for expansion in the future, that
however has not been accounted for in requirements and review of this
large scale development. The applicant is required to dedicate right-of-
way on Joyce however, no additional right-of-way is required on Steele
Blvd. which has been built out with an island section which the applicant
will be reducing somewhat, will be cutting that to have an entrance from
Steele. Staff is recommending improvements to include contribution of
50% of the cost of a traffic signal at this entrance proposed by this
applicant. In addition, the applicant did submit a traffic study which had
three recommendations, all of which we are recommending be adhered to.
The applicant has submitted elevation boards for review of Commercial
Design Standards however, this elevation board which is before you is
reflective of what was submitted at the Subdivision Committee. In your
packets are the revised elevations. The applicant did revise the northern
elevation to incorporate some of the comments at Subdivision Committee.
I believe that Subdivision Commission also requested perhaps a
modification of the southern elevation, that was left alone, so you can
decide whether or not you feel that needs to be modified or whether it
complies this evening. In review Staff is recommending approval. The
applicant has provided stub outs to the adjacent property for cross access
and we find that the improvements done here will help to aid development
on the adjacent properties. Staff is recommending approval with a total of
20 conditions which include Planning Commission determination of
Commercial Design Standards as well as determination of street
improvements and there is a request for Planning Commission for
determination of a waiver of street aisle widths. Our requirements, the
Unified Development Code calls that internal drive aisles be 24' width, the
Fire Department requested a 26' width drive aisle to access the structure
for their apparatus and setting up if they ever need to service this property.
The applicant requested a 28' width on the main internal drive aisles
which will serve the greatest amount of traffic and this is comparable to a
typical standard drive aisle. I would like to point out that in condition #10
that we have additional conditions in regards to the landscaping which has
been requested since tech plat review which includes removal of sewer
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 60
lines from under the landscape islands and the applicant is willing to
comply with that, so that we can get trees in all the islands.
Ostner: I will call for public comment. Seeing none, I will close the public
comment section. Does the applicant wish to make a presentation.
Suneson: My name is Chris Suneson with McClelland Consulting Engineers. We
have worked diligently on this project through planning stages and we
anticipate a great vote for the citizens of Fayetteville this evening. I can
answer any questions that you might have as best as I can.
Vaught: I have a question about the site plan. There are some large, especially
toward the corner of Steele and Joyce areas left open. Are those proposed
out lots or are those unbuildable.
Suneson: At this time there are no definitive plans for out lot development, but the
way this site configuration lends itself, those are potential out lots.
Vaught: I didn't see a detention area, is it the southwest corner?
Sunseso: We will not be having a detention area, we will be going directly to the
release of the drainage easement along the eastern property line which
flows south.
Vaught: Question for Staff and the City Engineer. Have you reviewed that plan
and does it meet the pre and post flow requirements?
O'Neal: Lot 9 was previously designed in the CMN development to direct
discharge for wetland recharge adjacent to Mud Creek.
Vaught: And in that discharge there is no additional filtering requirement — we
know how sensitive wetlands are, we don't have anything on our books
that would require in these situations some kind of collector filter. I know
Sam's is an example of someone I know that was doing this and offered
lots of things, but those are offers as I understand.
O'Neal: The wetlands are the filter. There was an additional mitigation done for
that further downstream.
Suneson: If I might add to that the drainage field behind the theatre would actually
act to take out some of those spinets ? that you are asking about.
Allen: At the Subdivision Committee we discussed a little bit the Commercial
Design Standards and some concerns that we had. I wonder if you could
point to changes that you might have made on the plans, please.
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March 13, 2006
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Sunseson: I am at a disadvantage; you all have the correct elevations in front of you.
The northern elevation in particular has been articulated quite a bit since
our last revision. The signage around the Fayetteville 12 has been
upgraded somewhat to include some of the features of the western
elevation. It is to my best knowledge that we have a lot of exterior ramps
that have been added to the southern and eastern elevations as well. In
addition to that, the southern elevation has been, we've brought around
some of the brick around from the front to dress up that to some extent.
The northern elevation has included some site elements including column
articulation on that lowest side of it and I believe we have wrapped some
brick around and brought some more of the lentil pieces around to bring
those up to standards.
Vaught: On the east side, it sits fairly close to the property line which backs up to
Wal-Mart if I'm correct. Is that what I am reading here? The Wal-Mart
sits right across the property line.
Suneson: That is correct.
Vaught: So that is somewhat screened from that.
Ostner: I believe there is a drainage sort of easement in-between there.
Sunseson: There are several in that location.
Ostner: It's not close but sort of close.
Myres: I was on the Subdivision Committee that brought up the need for
additional articulation or repeating elements from the front around to the
side and I think they have done what we had asked in good faith. The fact
that they didn't change very much on the south side doesn't bother me at
all. I think the side with the signage I'm having the same trouble you are,
is probably more visible and that was the one that I thought in particularly
needed some attention and they have given it some attention so I'm in
favor of the changes that they have made.
Clark: Question for Staff. This stoplight we are talking, the turn signal. We are
talking about it at the entrance off of Steele Blvd.?
Pate: Yes.
Clark: Because it is... maybe I'm not reading condition #2 right, but it just says
they are going to pay it and doesn't say where it is going to go. I guess
nobody has any problems with the east elevations? It backs up to Wal-
Mart so you are going to have two ugly backs together?
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March 13, 2006
Page 62
Sunseson: I would take issue with an ugly back.
Clark: The rest of the building is gorgeous and I'm in absolute support of it. We
would be tarred and feathered not to pass this tonight.
Sunseson: There are buildings with less articulation on the rear elevation.
Clark: You are right. Having this theatre appears to be Nirvana for the City of
Fayetteville. I'm a little surprised you are getting away with just having
one exit off of that second story. Does Fire Code not.....
Sunseson: We have two exits off the second story. There is one on the east as well.
You will find that those are two separate theatres as well.
Anthes: My question has to do with condition of approval #3, the waiver of the
drive aisle widths. I'm looking at their drawing and it looks like they have
24' drive aisles between the rows of parallel parking and then a 28'
section proposed on the aisle directly in front of the theatre and then the
main cross aisle. While the Fire Department only requires 26', can you
talk about why the additional 2' is desirable? Because to me that would
just mean cars would move faster where you have people and trying to get
to the door of the theatre.
Pate:
The reason we requested or recommended 28' is because that is also
where the turning movements occur when you are going from one aisle to
the next so it does require quite a bit more space than the typical drive
aisle. With the stacking — the original design of this did not have near the
stacking on Steele Blvd. It was just a parking lot where it was offloaded
directly onto Steele. So we looked at a reconfiguration of the drive aisle
to allow for more significant stacking space because obviously a large
theatre like this will have peak hour traffic. We felt the 28' would,
because it also connects to the property to the north and there will likely
not be any access allowed onto the Joyce or Steele from those two
potential out lots, as well as to the south, Lot 9A, there is a bridge location
directly to the south of this and so there is likely limited access, with the
Creek also to the south, there is limited access for this property, so we felt
it functioned better as a drive aisle of greater width in that location.
Anthes: I appreciate what you say about stacking space; I'm glad that you
reconfigured that not to be in the parking lot but that is a matter of length
not width, so that wouldn't seem to make an argument for the additional
width.
Suneson: I'd like to address that, Ms. Anthes, we are trying to provide a hierarchy of
circulation as you move away from the theatre so you move into those
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 63
larger aisles where we anticipate most of the traffic will occur. One, we
are going to need bigger radii on those not only to provide say Fire access
but to move the traffic in and out as quickly as possible.
Anthes: I understand the Fire Department states they only need 26' and from what
we can see in most subdivisions they require much greater turning
movements than any car normally would and I'm looking at the amount of
impervious surface we are adding to the parking lot for a 2' additional
width for the length of those aisles and it is considerable when you talk
about the asphalt we are adding to the area, perhaps unnecessarily so that's
why I'm asking the question. A 28' width aisle is two 14' lanes which is
wider than any Department of Transportation width for an interstate
freeway so it is wide. In fact, on busy days, people might want to park
there next to one of the tree islands because there would appear to be
enough room. I am just trying to understand where all the thoughts are
coming from and what is really there to substantiate that width, especially
where we have a lot of pedestrians moving from these cars into the theatre.
Clark: Is there any type of a side area where pedestrians or passengers will be let
out?
Sunseson: We have nothing in our plans to date, but it would be possible in
incorporate that into the design.
Clark: If it is designed to allow passengers to exit vehicles before the vehicles are
parked, it would seem to me that your approach could be narrowed and
just leave it wide right in front of the theatre and mark it. That would be a
nice little addition to have a demarcation point that is clear to let people
get out of cars safely. But I agree with Commissioner Anthes that the rest
of the 28' I don't understand, when 26' would seem sufficient.
Vaught: I know that we are in an internal parking lot and we are dealing as we have
all been to movies, mass inflows and outflows at the same times, there are
no internal sidewalks through parking lots. My only thought is that a lot
of these wider aisles are going to be where significant pedestrian traffic.
There is an argument that allowing some extra space, marking it with paint
for an area for pedestrian traffic might be needed. I understand the need
for the extra space because you are sharing that road with cars and people.
We wish there were sidewalks but we don't have sidewalks in parking lots
so maybe that is one thing I assumed the wider lots were wider places ?, so
maybe if we had 28' and something internal, we could mark part for
pedestrian use so you try to funnel that.
Anthes: May I address that. Commissioner Vaught, I normally would agree with
you but it seems to me that the drive aisles, the wider aisles are actually
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 64
contradicting the pedestrian movement. If you look at the plan, the
narrower aisles are in paths where the pedestrians would be moving from
the cars to the theatre and the wider aisles are actually going the opposite
way and serving the cars. To me, I would rather see that impervious
surface moved to run between where the heads of cars are together to
actually have a sidewalk that is protected that is running toward the theatre
that would protect pedestrians, but I'm not sure it does what you are
wanting it to in this configuration.
Vaught: The two that I see are 28' are the north/south ones. And they function
more as streets than as parking aisles. The 28' right-of-way is a residential
street, pavement curb to curb is a residential street in Fayetteville, but you
can allow parking on it, so that would be the issue. I don't think we want
to allow parking in our main drive aisle. I think next to the theatre it
makes sense because you do have, not people parking, but loading and
unloading and there needs to be room around that. It is the furthest one
away that you have the most issue with? I don't know what the applicant
thinks about dealing with the drive aisle.
Sunseson: I can address the fact that both, all three I should say, drive aisles will be
painted with no parking striping because of the Fire protection
requirements.
Vaught: Would you be willing to shrink the far one in the spirit of finding a
resolution, the far western aisle by reducing the width by 2'?
Sunseson: Certainly.
Vaught Then let's make that change and I will make a motion to approve LSD 06-
1924 with the stated change in that western drive aisle finding in favor of
Commercial Design Standards, finding in favor of Staff's recommendation
on condition #2 on the traffic signal on Steele as marked on the plat, and
all the conditions as stated.
Clark: I will second.
Ostner: I have a question before we vote. On this northern elevation that we
talked about, I would agree that it looks fine, but I am looking at the site
plan and normally up against big buildings like this, there is some sort of
landscaping and I'm not seeing any. On the north end....
Sunseson: Yes, sir, we have a 15' landscape buffer required by code and in addition
to that, our parking will be screened with an evergreen screen. In addition
to that, Staff has asked us to provide evergreen screen around our trash
dumpsters that will be located on that side.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 65
Ostner: I am talking about up against the building, touching the building. The
plans I see have the landscaping out at the street, which is nice.
Sunseson: We do have internal tree islands and it is our intention to this point to
leave the three immediately tree islands in that northern parking field as a
landscape island without trees in it, but Staff has indicated that they would
require that we move the sanitary sewer out of that and that has been the
major contention. So you will have three more trees on that side.
Ostner: Say that again, there is sanitary sewer under there so you can't do
anything.
Sunseson: To this point we had, immediately north of the building, sanitary sewer
routed through those tree islands. We are going to provide three more
trees.
Ostner: I am talking about closer to the building than the sanitary sewer. What is
that area?
Sunseson: That is sidewalk.
Ostner: That is concrete up to the building?
Sunseson: Yes.
Ostner: It looks to be about a 10' sidewalk. I don't think that is the way it should
look.
Clark:
So when I come out the back door, I look at the nice little deck that you
have added on the north side, I will look down to concrete. Is that what
you are getting at Allen?
Ostner: Yes.
Clark: There should be bushes.
Ostner: There should be something. I can see concreting the front of the
building...
Vaught: Should there be bushes, is that a requirement?
Ostner: It is not a requirement, this building has met the requirements for the
minimum. It would be nice if that was on there, but we have a motion..
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March 13, 2006
Page 66
Allen:
I have always been anti -big box person and there is no absolutely no way
around calling that anything but a big box, but knowing that after earlier
this evening, that definitely I would be murdered, found dead somewhere
in the community, I'm going to give my rationale for not calling this a big
box, that I am not sure you cannot build a theatre that doesn't look like a
big box.
Ostner: There is a motion and a second, is there any further comment?
Roll Call: The motion to approve LSD 06-1924 carries by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 67
CUP 06-1950: Conditional Use Permit (DAVIS, 559): Submitted by STEPHEN
LEWIS DAVIS for property located at 2050 W 6TH ST. The property is zoned C-2,
THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 0.27 acres. The
requirement is for 11 parking spaces. The request is to allow fewer than the minimum
allowable parking spaces, utilizing 3 on -street parking spaces to fulfill the requirement.
Morgan: This property is fairly well known, the former Shakes property located on
the corner of Sixth Street and recently the streets were realigned to create
the intersection of Sand Avenue and Sixth Street with a light there. The
result of this was the creation of a tract which had right-of-way on all four
sides. The applicant has been through several variances procedures and
has come before this Planning Commission in order to request waivers to
bring the non -conforming structure into compliance as well the addition of
a second drive through area on the west side of the building. When this
was previously reviewed by the Planning Commission, the request was for
a specific parking lot design and as you can see on page 14 of your Staff
report, this site plan which included the addition of four parking spaces
which encroached into the required 15' green space. Staff recommended
approval and the Planning Commission approved that encroachment. The
applicant, my understanding is that the person who submitted this proposal
is no longer working with this development and the existing owner
requires — would like to redevelop this property for restaurant use which
would require a minimum of 11 spaces. In working with trying to get the
spaces onto the property and also have enough exit for a drive aisle and to
maneuver around the existing building, the applicant proposes to shift that
10' green space variance further to the north to four other spaces to the
north, and in addition in doing so will allow eight spaces to be constructed
on the property, however, the applicant is three spaces short of the 11
minimum spaces and is requesting a conditional use to go below the 30%
minimum under the requirement. In lieu of providing them on site,
requests to provide them on Sang Avenue which is currently a dead end
street with the reconfiguration of this intersection. The applicant, as you
can see on the drawing on page 12, requests these three on -street parking
spaces on Old Sang Avenue, west of the structure. Staff finds that this
application is compatible — it will not adversely impact any of the adjacent
properties and recognizes the situation on this property being unique, and
recommending approval on these changes.
Ostner: I will call for any public comment. Seeing none, I will close the public
comment and ask the applicant for any presentation.
Lewis: I am Steve Davis, the applicant. In making this a viable property, we need
to get at least eight parking places on site. We have arranged the design
such that it maintains as much green space as possible and still provides
enough space in backing out — the parked cars will not back into the back
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 68
of the building. I would appreciate your consideration. We really need to
get the eight spaces on the location and the three on the dead end street
adjacent to the property.
Vaught: Question for Staff. When we first saw this, there was considerable talk
about vacation of Old Sang and who the property would go to. Was that
ever resolved? Did the adjoining property owner owned a little sliver on
either side of the road —did they receive them all? Typically if it is
vacated, each property owner gets to the centerline. Was that the situation
here?
Pate:
To be honest, I don't ever remember having that discussion but it has
never proceeded beyond that to vacate this right-of-way. It serves as
access for both of these properties currently.
Vaught: So there are no plans to vacate this. Am I the only one?
Pate: The site plan that is shown on page 14 of 16 which has the parking
directly off of the street, that would require vacation of the right-of-way
had they utilized that parking configuration.
Vaught: They would have had to seek one at the time the City was the owner so it
would have been a little easier for them to do.
Anthes: To follow up on Commissioner Vaught's question, so page 14 on our Staff
report is what we saw before and page 12 is what we are seeing now?
Pate: Correct.
Anthes: So this shared parking area just didn't work out? Was it ever approved?
Pate: Shared parking area was never pursued or approved, that was just an
option. I think the City may have drawn these plans when we still owned
that property and that was one option we looked at for off-site parking
which would also have required a conditional use request. Obviously, that
option would require a waiver or change on Sang Avenue because you
can't have head -in parking off a public right-of-way. I believe the
property owner to the west also would have to agree with that option.
Anthes: The reason I had to ask is that it seems more of an elegant solution in that
there is a lot, the corner of State Highway 80 and New Sang would be able
to be landscaped and at this point, it looks like the building is sitting is all
asphalt.
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March 13, 2006
Page 69
Pate:
There was actually a requirement when we sold this property — we went in
and took out that 15' of green space with the exception of the corner of the
building, it is currently all asphalt/concrete right now with the exception of
that 15' that we require to be taken out. One of the conditions of approval
which will still stand with this applicant is that trees and shrubs be planted
along the entire frontage of Sixth Avenue and Sang.
Anthes: Does the amount of land on this parcel meet our heart scape requirement,
don't we have a maximum that we can pave?
Pate: Eighty-five percent.
Anthes: And we are in that number?
Pate: They are meeting the 15' green space — they also have as Suzanne
mentioned the hardship was put on this property by the City because of the
realignment there. We took a lot of the actual usable space on that
property. It would be difficult to utilize this structure for much more than
what it is currently designed for which is a small drive-in, originally. I
think it is accommodating parking to be able to use this structure is
important.
Anthes: I agree, I wish we could have worked something out with the shared
arrangement, because it is nice. But in lieu of that I will move for
approval of CUP 06-1950 subject to the conditions of approval as stated
and with the proposed site plan with the granted landscape waiver.
Vaught: I will second with the statement that I would love to see — it kind of baffles
me that we take the easement on the other side, we purchased the property
to do this but it only makes sense that the old right-of-way be vacated to it
can be utilized and we could have a plan like the first plan. I am a little
baffled why the City didn't do that originally.
Williams: My memory is that there were problems with the adjoining owner and that
wouldn't have actually solved the parking problem for this particular
property, there wouldn't be enough property left to do the design that was
originally conceived by the City that you see on page 14. That would not
have worked; we would have had to purchase more land.
Ostner: That is also the way I recall it. The adjoining owner to the west likes that
right-of-way, the entrance into their project. That is just going by my
memory.
Clark: The City's infinite wisdom has created one difficult piece of property and
Mr. Davis, I commend you for wanting to do something with in. I am a
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March 13, 2006
Page 70
little concerned about the parking, but anybody is going to face this and I
think you have come up with a reasonable suggestion with the off-site
parking. I do have one question — in the packet it said that you anticipate
your business to be heavily through the drive through window. You are
not expecting a lot of traffic parking?
Davis: I think there will be some parking, some inside retail so it is kind of hard
to predict, but I would probably say 60% drive through, 30% inside.
Clark: Because having those parking spaces across, where you have to walk in
front of the drive through, but I still support the conditional use and wish
you great luck.
Ostner: Any further comments? Please call the roll.
Roll Call: The motion to approve CUP -06-1950 carries by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 71
RZN 06-1949: Rezoning (ELLIS, 569): Submitted by SCOTT ELLIS for property
located at 4230 HUNTSVILLE ROAD. The property is zoned RSF-1, SINGLE
FAMILY - 1 UNIT/ACRE and RSF-4, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY — 4 UNITS
PER ACRE and contains approximately 6.03 acres. The request is to rezone the subject
property to RSF-7, Residential single family, 7 units per acre.
Morgan: If you look on page 14 or 15 of your Staff report, you can see that subject
property containing approximately 6 acres has frontage on Huntsville
Road. It is located west of David Lyle Subdivision and Riverhill
Subdivision. I will go into a bit of the background. As I researched the
zoning files and annexation files in the Planning Office, in 1995 the
property to the east and north was annexed into the City and zoned RSF-7
and R -O. These designations at the time may have been altered with the
changes in zoning, but I think that RSF-7 was formerly R -S. The property
to the west of the subject property was annexed into the City in 1998. The
portion that was originally annexed into the City in the 1960s whenever
they annexed Lake Sequoyah was zoned RMF -24 and as you see on page
15, the property immediately to the west is RMF -24 with the northern
portion RSF-7. It was zoned RSF-7 in 1998 to allow the development of
small single-family lots. Annexation of these properties to the northeast
and west created an island which was annexed with the annexation of
islands in 2004 and zoned RSF-1, therefore, we are looking at a piece of
property that is split -zoned with the bottom portion being RSF-4, having
been annexed in the 1960s, and northern portion RSF-1 being annexed in
2004. The property owner requests a rezoning from RSF-4 and RSF-1 to
RSF-7 to allow for the development of a subdivision under these zoning
regulations. This application has been reviewed by Police, Fire, Planning
and Engineering and the findings of those divisions are found on page 3.
We anticipate improvements to infrastructure with the development of
subdivision. Additionally, Fire response times were given at 5.25 minutes
— when Station 3 opens, this travel time will be reduced to 4.25 minutes
and the Police Department states that this proposed rezoning will not
substantially alter the population density. Staff finds that the rezoning is
consistent with current land -use planning objectives and policies. That
rezoning the property to RSF-7 is compatible with the immediately
surrounding properties., also zoned RSF-7. As encouraged in the General
Plan 2020, this new residential area would be located accessible to
roadways and community amenities, mainly RA Park which is located to
the north. RSF-7 is the most common zoning district in this area. The
David Lyle Subdivision is zoned RSF-7 and taking a look at the plat, it is
developed at a density of 3.86 with lots ranging from 60' frontage to 75'
frontage. As for access to this property, fortunately no access was
provided with the development of the surrounding subdivisions. The
applicant would propose access from Huntsville Road and Staff would
evaluate potential for connecting that street to other surrounding properties
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March 13, 2006
Page 72
in the area to provide for future connectivity to other developments. Staff
is recommending approval of the application.
Ostner: I will call for public comment. If you are unaffiliated with the
development and would like to speak about it, please step forward.
Swanner: My name is Kay Swanner and I live in David Lyle Subdivision and am
also on the board of the David Lyle Property Owners Association. When
David Lyle was rezoned in 1995 as Staff said, it was rezoned to R-1 and it
states right in there that R-1 zoning allows for four dwelling units per acre,
so that's the way David Lyle was developed. It was developed into four
units per acre. Then when the area was zoned R -O and that's where
Riverhills Subdivision is now developing and that is also developing as
four units per acre. When this piece of property we are talking about was
brought into the City in August, 2004, it was brought in as RSF-1, in other
words, Staff must have looked at it and decided it needed a RSF-1 zoning
at that time. They didn't just say let's zone it something different than
everything around it, but it had to be compatible with what was in the area
which was RSF-1, four units per acre.
Ostner: I believe the Council in the one that is doing that. It is possible that it
didn't get a full Planning Commission report in this instance.
Williams: What happened when we did the island annexations, the City Council
wanted to choose a real low density either R -A or RSF-1 which is one unit
per acre or one unit per two acres so that if a higher density was sought by
developer or owner, that it would have to come back through the process.
They weren't making the individualized decision on what the zoning
should be but they wanted to start with a very low density so that
development would have to come back through them and they could take a
look at it prior to it being rezoned.
Swanner: So that is what we want you to do is to take a look at it as it relates to the
surrounding properties. If we were zoned R-1, four units per acres and
developed that way, the Staff recommendation is that a RSF-7 would be
compatible with the area. What makes that compatible with the area, why
wouldn't it be compatible with four units per acre which is how the rest of
the area is developed. It would seem that a rezone would be done
according to....
Ostner: I'm sorry to keep interrupting you but RSF-1 is one unit per acre.
Swanner: I have the minutes from the Planning Commission meeting of March 13,
1995, it says its to be 99.88 rezoned to R-1 and later in the minutes it says
that R-1 allows four units per acre.
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March 13, 2006
Page 73
Ostner: There has been a change in titles- R-1 — we don't have it any more, it met
residential single family probably four units per acre, but this was brought
in as RSF-1 meaning residential single family, one unit per acre. There is
some confusion I think we changed those titles in 2003, so it was never
RSF-4.
Swanner: When Riverhills came in last year to get their property developed, David
Lyle at that time was listed as being zoned RSF-4 so that is what we are.
So what I'm saying is that we are developed at four units an acre, the front
part is developed four units per acres, we are asking why can't the next
door neighbor be developed at the same way we are. We are asking you to
consider that.
Maxwell: I'm Emma Maxwell, I am here on behalf of my dad. He owns the house
that is adjacent to this property that accesses to the east of my house and
the property is all behind my house. He asks that before this goes through
that we speak with and meet with Mr. Ellis. My dad couldn't be here
because he lives in Pine Bluff and I live in the house. We would like to
talk about access and privacy issues to make sure my property will not be
devalued, maybe take a look at a survey and see exactly where the
property lines are. He didn't want any of this to go through without
asking Mr. Ellis to meet with me and my Dad and discuss some of these
issues.
Ostner: Just to share with you that there is a whole separate process for that where
a lot of those discussions go on. It is called the preliminary plat process
and tonight all we would do would be to change the rights of what could
go on. If it went through at RSF-7, they could put more houses per piece
of land than at the RSF-1. They would still have to come through here and
talk about fences, where is the property line and stuff like that. You will
be notified.
Clay: My name is Robert Clay and I live at 4186 E. Huntsville Road. The
property you are talking about is directly behind me. From 7:15 to about
8:30 in the morning, the traffic backs up all the way from Crossover to
where I live, so sometimes it takes me several minutes just to get out of
my driveway turning right to get on the road. And adding the extra traffic
into there, I think you need to consider traffic flow. Lower density would
be better four units per acre instead of seven you are suggesting. Another
problem we have — when I first bought the house last year I saw all these
slow-moving vehicles sign along the road, and wondered what in the
world are all these signs for. The first time I came up on my house when
it was dark, I missed the driveway. And everybody along the road has a
slow moving vehicle sign, just like the property that is being rezoned. It is
Planning Commission
March 13, 2006
Page 74
very hard to see your driveway unless it is well marked. When you are
adding another 42 homes trying to get off the road, I think you are going
to create a situation that is not really beneficial to the community. I don't
think it goes along with the established community, changing it to seven.
I would like to see it stay at a four units per acre I think it would be better
for the community and the property. Thank you.
Ostner: Just to repeat that things like street lights are part of the discussion when
we go to the next phase if this development were to occur, the preliminary
plat phase.
Caldero: I am Andy Caldero and am the president of the David Lyle Property
Owners Association. First thing I would like to question is the fact that
none of the people that are in the properties adjacent to this proposal, that
are in David Lyle, to the best of my knowledge, were notified about this
hearing. There were no notifications sent out. As president of the POA,
since I am on record with the City, I would have thought I would have
been notified at least. I was not notified. As far as this zoning is
concerned, David Lyle, Riverhills and just about all of Stonebridge has
sold/developed four homes per acre. A while back, it got through
Planning Commission, it got through everybody, that the parcel that is
now being developed as Riverhills was going to be built as duplexes and
condos — that was a violation and we went back and it was changed, it was
shot down. Mr. Callaway has bought it and has developed it as four
family per acre. We had to come back and fight them and Kay brought the
records out from City Hall to prove that it was in the minutes that that
piece of land could not be developed in any other way but four families
per acre. The density around that whole area, south and east of the
proposal is all four families per acre. Why it should suddenly go to seven
is beyond me. It changes the whole appearance, the whole flavor, the
whole attitude of everything there. As this other gentlemen stated, the
traffic in the morning is unbearable. It has been proposed to widen that
section of the City I guess, but that is somewhere down the road, but
meanwhile the people who live on the south side can't even get across the
road to go left to come back into the City in the morning. He complained
about being able to get out of his driveway, those in Stonebridge, it is
virtually impossible for them. There is a new traffic light being put down
on Stonebridge Road —that is not going to alleviate the traffic that is
coming out and heading west, it will just give a little pause so people can
get out a little bit. But the traffic is starting to back up considerably. It is
well past our subdivision to the east and to change the density to the next
subdivision between us to seven, is ludicrous. Thank you.
Ostner: Any further public comments? I will ask the applicant if he has any
presentation he would like to make.
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March 13, 2006
Page 75
Crawley: My name is Aaron Crawley. I am a co-owner with Scott Ellis. We just
want to zone this similar to what is all around us. We have RSF-7 to the
west, RSF-7 to the east and a park to the north. I think there is RMF -24
southwest of us as well. In our preliminary plats we only have 18 lots on
there. That is only three units per acre. But in this zoning we want to be
the same thing that is directly to the east and west.
Ostner: I have a question for Staff. You have laid out the requirements of RSF-7
in here - seven units per acre, 60' lot width minimum, 6,000 square foot
lot area minimum. What are the bulk and area for RSF-4?
Pate:
Seventy foot for lot width minimum and 8,000 for lot area minimum so it
is 2,000 square feet less and 10' less.
Ostner: So these lots would be 10' narrower, if they built out to the maximum,
what the RSF-7 would allow if they chose. These lots could be 10'
narrower and 2,000 square feet smaller. It is still single family, the only
permitted uses are City-wide uses by right and single-family dwellings.
They have to have a conditional use for any duplex. So I just wanted to
illustrate that. The other thing that jumped out to me is that I would agree
that the look of the surrounding developments are RSF-4, however, the
zoning maps show RSF-7 almost completely surrounding this piece of
property and RMF -24 on the west and RA on the north.
Vaught: I was going to ask Staff about the discrepancies between the neighbors and
the zoning map. It sounded like they had a different impression on their
zoning. Do we know anything about the history?
Pate:
A little bit. I'm working off memory here, but in 1998 David Lyle
Subdivision was forwarded by the Planning Commission with a different
recommendation than what the Council approved. There was a bill of
assurance and actually some discussion about a landing strip on Mr.
Bowery's land; it was finally dedicated as park land. It was found not it
was not appropriate for park land, so I believe that is how the property to
the north was part of that David Lyle Subdivision rezoning and annexation
back in the nineties. It was zoned at that time, we can pull that ordinance,
as R -S which translates to RSF-7, a residential single family small lot
designation at that time. In 2003, we changed that designation to RSF-7
which is why the plats she is referring to — a lot of the information refers
to just R -S.
Vaught: R -S is basically the same of RSF-7. I'm not familiar with the subdivision
— are there 60' lots in David Lyle?
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March 13, 2006
Page 76
Pate: Yes.
Vaught: So this is in keeping — the area that is marked parks is the area that was
donated but is unsuitable for parks?
Pate: It was deemed unsuitable for a landing strip, reading in the minutes. Part
of it was dedicated and part of it was donated as park land. We do have
those ordinances that the final piece of paper you want is the ordinance
that was passed by the City Council that is filed at the Circuit Clerk's
office.
Clark:
This has been a most interesting evening. This is an appropriate way to
conclude it. I am concerned about such a high density zoning for several
reasons: number one is the traffic already on Huntsville — lived there, I
know. Secondly, when I look at this piece of property and look ahead a
little bit for it to develop, I am not seeing a lot of connectivity possibilities.
If this builds out at seven units per acre, I think that would be absolute
disaster. I would be more than happy to recommend an RSF-4 zoning so
you could be in compliance and compatible with what is actually built
next to you as opposed to what it says on the map. Because what we see is
not what we have. What it says is RMF -7, and it is really 3-4. That's
what you seem to indicate what you would like to build. A question for
Staff, what part of this 6.03 acres is already zoned RSF-4?
Morgan: If you see property to....
Clark: Just a little bit of it?
Morgan: Yes, I may have that in the Staff report.
Vaught: You just connect to two lines from the Lake Sequoyah rezoning — that
diagonal line that runs along Huntsville Road ....
Ostner: This is what we have been dealing with lately.
Morgan: If you look on page 5 of the Staff report, I roughly calculated it out to 1.6
acres.
Clark: I am going to make the motion that we approve RZN 06-1949 but at
uniformity of RSF-4.
Allen: I will second that. That was going to be my motion before you spoke.
Clark: You can figure out the math on it.
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March 13, 2006
Page 77
Allen: I did also wonder if you had made an effort to speak with these neighbors,
I think that is always helpful.
Crawley: I haven't, my partner is out of town today. I assume he did, but I have not
personally.
Allen: A lot of these breakdowns in communication can be easily fixed.
Crawley: The reason we were going for the RSF-7 is because of the lot widths. It
will equate to being around three units per acre. With an RSF-4, we are
going to be lots less than that.
Allen: I understand that but I do have concerns about traffic and what happens to
be compatible, what is there.
Crawley: We looked at what was directly east of us. We were going to develop the
houses the same to make them compatible.
Graves: I am going to vote against the motion and that is because the property that
surrounds all of this is RSF-7 although there have been some comments
about how many units per acre are actually built out there. The units out
there are using the smaller lots that RSF-7 accommodates. What is
already out there is using that, in particular the Lyle subdivision as Staff
has indicated. I don't see a real reason to put the wider lots and the so
forth that we discussed right in the center of what is already zoned RSF-7
out there and RMF -24, so I will vote against it.
Vaught: I would concur. From what I understand, David Lyle is developed, Staff
correct me if I'm wrong, it is developed in an RSF-7 pattern is what I've
heard with the 60' wide lots and similar type. Is that correct?
Morgan: After looking at the subdivision plat today, it appears that they have used a
combination of different widths. Those lots that are actually adjacent to
the subject property are approximately 75' lot widths. Those located
interior to the subdivision are at 60' lot width and you can find 70' lot
widths scattered throughout. There is a good mixture in that subdivision.
Vaught: And this is one of the complaints I've had for a while. I don't like some of
our titles on our zoning because we get here and RSF-4, it is very difficult
to build at four units an acre — you usually see 2-1/2. RSF-7 I imagine is
similar in nature where you could cram it in, pay all your park fees, go
very far to do stuff, but I have a feeling it is a lot less than that when it is
developed. The key here is the lot width. I am in support of the original
application because it is surrounded by RSF-7 and RMF -24. The issue of
traffic and access is something we would look at at the next step and I
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March 13, 2006
Page 78
would look for cross access. I believe that is very important, but that is
not what I've been asked to do today. I believe RSF-7 is in keeping. I'm
having trouble saying I'll vote against it. I think that offering an
amendment to the original application would be the correct way to go if
we don't agree, that way we don't vote down the forwarding of the
rezoning.
Ostner: If it fails, we have the option to vote again. Are there any other quick
comments?
Lack: I did want to ask Staff is you have calculated the built -out density is as
some of it is built RSF-7 and some is larger lots. What is the overall
build -out?
Morgan: The overall build -out density is what appears to be Phase I of David Lyle
was 3.86 units per acre.
Vaught: Utilizing 60' wide lots and 75' lots?
Morgan: Correct.
Osmer: My question is what about notification? Aren't adjoining property owners
— okay it's all about an ad in the paper?
Pate:
Yes, that is correct — an ad in the paper and the sign up. PZDs are the only
ones we require and some conditional uses require certified mail for
adjoining property owners.
Ostner: Any further comments. We are going to call roll on forwarding this as an
RMF -4.
Roll Call: The motion to forward RZN 06-1949 as an RMF -4 fails by a vote of 3-
5-0.
Vaught: I would make a motion that we reconsider RZN 06-1949.
Ostner: I'm not sure we need to reconsider, we have simply taken no action.
Failed something that is different from the Staff report.
Williams: Procedurally, why don't you go ahead and just reconsider it again.
Ostner: Okay, a motion to reconsider.
Clark: Second.
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March 13, 2006
Page 79
Roll Call: The motion to reconsider RZN 06-1949 carries by a vote of 8-0-0.
Ostner: My take on this is the difference is somewhat minimal. I know the lots are
10' narrower and 2,000 feet smaller, but Mr. Vaught has hit it on the head,
it is difficult to develop seven units per acre with our current requirements.
This is the closest thing to affordable housing this City can offer if smaller
pieces of property. A smaller home will be built on it, it will cost less, it is
a different product. Since it is surrounded by compatible zoning, I am
wanting the preliminary plat process to make a terrific development out of
this and I'm not going to stand for anything less. The traffic is a big
problem; it is going to have to have stub outs, it is going to have to be first
class, but for seven units per acre I think I would be in favor of it and I
would hope that I could convince the neighbors that I think you all will be
safe with your property values.
Graves: I was going to make a motion that we forward to the City Council with the
recommendation of approval of RZN 06-1949 rezoning the property to
RSF-7.
Ostner: I will second. Any further comment.
Anthes: I am still concerned with the six minute response time, the traffic and the
lack of possible connectivity and I would rather see this property come
through as a PZD.
Roll Call: The motion to forward to the City Council with the recommendation
of approval of RZN 06-1949 rezoning the property to RSF-7 fails by a
vote of 4-4-0.
Ostner: The motion fails — it takes five positive votes.
Williams: The applicant certainly has the right to do a written appeal to the City
Council. City Council makes a final decision on any final rezoning
anyway. You have to make a written request to the City Clerk within ten
working days in order to appeal this denial of your rezoning request.
Osmer: Are there any announcements?
Pate: Yes, the nominating committee to present the slate of officers will meet
directly following the agenda session and working session of the Planning
Commission a week from Thursday's meeting. There is a Subdivision
meeting on Thursday.
Ostner: We are adjourned.