HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-12-03 - MinutesSubdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 1
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Broyles: For our home buyer. Additionally, we will capture that water and hold it
and as you can see, there is no line where that runs into the creek. The
intent is to hold that water and let it seep down through so that you don't
get as much runoff chemicals as you would get from the streets. We are
trying to capture as much of that as we could and also it tries to hold as
much water as we can to keep it from getting into the creek during storms
which was our intent to try to slow down what flooding might occur
downstream from us.
Shackelford: Thank you gentlemen very much. At this point I am going to open it up to
public comment. If there is anybody here that would like to address this
PZD for Aspen Ridge please come forward at this time.
Hoodenpyle: I am Don Hoodenpyle, I live adjoining to the piece of property that they
are working with. You had to go by my place to get into the trailer court.
I would like to know, I looked at your plans up there but nobody could tell
me where that sewer line is joining up at. Is that sewer line going forward
to join up with the one that comes down, that 15" one is supposed to be
coming down on the other side of the creek. It sure can't join up with that
6" line because that 6" line has all kinds of problems with it. I have had
several talks with Hank and he said he is going to put a fence around the
place so as long as he does that, that's ok with me. The water runoff, I
think he has that pretty well under control but who knows when you get a
3" or 4" rain what the heck is going to happen. I get flooded out every
time right now and there is going to be a lot more roofs up there and a lot
more pavement than what there was before. Of course, the maintenance
on the creek that he's talking about. As long as you have got the
University you are going to have that trash in the creek. They throw all
kinds of stuff in there. I noticed they block the road off but guys drive
around that stuff to throw their refrigerators and stuff on his property. It
has been going on for years and they are still doing it. Another main
concern of mine, and I think Hank is probably going to take care of this,
when he fences it behind my barn over there where it's at, I'm trading a
piece of property, when he fences it down behind the barn if he goes over
15' it is going to get pretty well close to the creek. On these trails that
he's got people can shortcut my place but he said he is going to put
another fence over there to stop that. Basically, those are my main
concerns. You know how kids are and people are, I would do it myself. I
would shortcut your place if I could save myself '/2 mile of walking and
you would do, and I wouldn't care if you didn't have to pay if somebody
trips or falls. If they trip or fall though they are going to come after me.
This is going to be a great big bunch of people moving in there and I'm a
country boy. How long I will stay there after this project is in is
anybody's guess. If I could replace what I have right there now I would
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 2
let Hank have my place and leave. I've enjoyed it down there but don't
know whether I could tolerate that many people driving through my
driveway.
Shackelford: Thank you Sir. Would anybody else like to comment on this PZD for
Aspen Ridge?
Holden: Yes, my name is Fred Holden. I own the property on West 126 Street.
That is three duplexes on the south side of that. I represent six families
there. My concern is don't come dumping the traffic from this back on
Duncan Street. There is just one short block there that what you are doing
is just making a circle and dumping the traffic right back on Duncan
Street. What would be wrong with taking that and continuing Brook
Avenue down and dumping it on 15th Street? To me in my line of thinking
it would do a lot to control the traffic flow right there. Really, 12th Street
is a dead end street. I have owned property there for almost 40 years. We
like it like that. It is a big plus for me and my property there. To dump all
this traffic out of this complex onto 12th Street would be detrimental to my
property I believe. I would ask that you go ahead and try to take Brook
Street onto 15th Street. Thank you.
Shackelford: Is there anybody else that would like to address this proposed PZD?
Strayhorn: I'm James Strayhorn, I'm a property owner on S. Hill Avenue. I have not
had an opportunity to attend any of these meetings prior to today. The
property that I own there is a duplex and the word never got to me about
these meetings so I've missed out on some of them. What I've gathered
from the meeting this morning, I only have one real concern and that is the
storm runoff. Mr. Broyles has indicated that the retention ponds there are
designed to handle the storm runoff and that is probably true in normal
conditions. In the spring whenever you have wet weather these retention
ponds are going to fill. When these retention ponds are full and you get a
2" rain in a 24 hour period of time there is going to be a lot of water runoff
that creek. Right now with all the vegetation that is there from the empty
space it helps control some of that but there is still flooding that takes
place. I have a real concern that if there is not a plan to take care of this
additional runoff simply because of all the concrete and asphalt from the
parking, I think the property owners that are below this development are
going to see some major flooding. It just so happens that my property is
elevated enough that I don't think that I would get any flooding inside my
structure there but the back of my property certainly would flood.
Shackelford: Thank you Sir. Is there anybody else that would like to address this
proposed PZD?
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 3
Shepherd:
Yes Sir. I am Aubrey Shepherd and we live very close to the property just
on the south edge of the main property. There are questions unanswered.
I think the biggest thing that is unanswered for me and Hank and I talked
about this the other day, the FEMA delineation of floodplain along this
stream is clearly inaccurate. On the east side of the stream it is much
broader. There are five areas, there is no way that you can fill and build in
there that you do not reduce the carrying capacity of the stream. At the
current time the water overflows in there. As Mr. Hoodenpyle pointed
out, the water runs across his property 75' from his driveway. On that side
it is clearly floodplain whether FEMA has it delineated that way or not. I
would ask that they be very cautious in what is planned for that particular
area because if the flow is stopped that occurs now then you will have
further flooding. This year there was one house on the west side of Town
Branch where it goes under 156 Street was flooded three times in late
April and the 2nd and 3rd days of July. As much as they have tried and
planned for this, as Mr. Hoodenpyle and others have said, you really can't
predict how big it will get. I remember we had a meeting in April with
Hank and Hal and Mr. Hoodenpyle brought up the idea of what happens if
we have 6" of rain and we all laughed and said we never have 6" rains
here, but we did within a few days of that and it happened twice more in
July. This is very critical for the future. Flooding occurs and the siltation
of Beaver Lake that occurred all Summer is based very much. Long ago
we blamed it on the farmers and the rural road goers that we had a lot of
erosion. Today building in the cities of all of Northwest Arkansas, this is
what accounts for so much of the erosion. During the process of building,
maybe after it is over there won't be any muddy runoff, I'm sure that that
is taken into account. It is during the process of building that so much
damage is done because if that plan is not totally complete and it is not
executed carefully and fully before any other ground is turned on the
property then you start having muddy runoff. This is why small mouth
bass fishermen don't bother to go to the portion of the white river between
South Fayetteville and the lake itself because you have so much siltation
now. It is a beautiful plan projected. As part of the neighborhood
association, we like what is going to be there. Between now and when it
is completed there will be a great risk of environmental damage that I
think these guys are planning for and I think if they execute that as well as
they have talked about it then it could be tolerable. In that floodplain area,
the official map may show that it is not but it is there. You can walk it
yourself and it is clearly wetland, water stands in there much of the time.
A little of the drainage comes off the property these guys have bought
from the east and northeast there. The creek itself uses that area now, that
means less water downstream at any given moment once the stream gets
up out of it's banks. That is the reason that I feel obligated to warn against
that. It won't affect my house, my house is up a little higher but over. In
talking to people who live on Ellis and Van Buren, the houses that are on
Van Buren are high enough that it just gets their yards full. On Ellis it is
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 4
Shackelford:
Terry:
getting very near the base of the houses. Individuals call the city when it
does this but as a group you don't see all of them. They talk to us when
we have meetings or are walking around visiting but not everybody can
take off work and attend meetings and they don't even attend the
neighborhood association meetings because those are inconvenient for
everybody I think if these guys persist and take it a little bit slow as they
have done to this point that this thing can be something workable for
everyone. I haven't read the soil reports but we know that much of this
lowland, the name Aspen Ridge is sort of ironic, but it is a nice name
Hank, we would call it Town Branch Swamp because this is primarily
wetlands along the Town Branch of the West Fork of the White River. It
affects the whole watershed downstream. Much of the soil, if they have
soil tests, will show hydric soil over much of the area. It is soil that
protects people downstream from flooding. Each time we have had these
major floods, these flash floods, it has been after we've had rains for days
and days and that soil is finally holding all it can and then you get an inch
of rain in an hour or two and the creek gets out of it's bank because there
is no more soaking power. This is pretty important. It is not just for us
who have friends and family living downstream but all the way to Beaver
Lake where the Corp. has the right to flood some land that houses were
built on I think many of you read the story last July after that flood when
people had water in very expensive new homes and they simply had not
been warned that that land could legally be flooded by Beaver Lake.
Trees, we appreciate the effort to save every healthy tree you can. I know
they spent the money on getting a good delineation on that. Thank you
very much.
Is there anybody else that would like to address the PZD for Aspen Ridge?
Good morning, my name is Melissa Terry, I am representing Audubon
Arkansas, the State Chapter of the National Audubon Society. We are
working on a project within the West Fork of the White River Water Shed
with funding from the Arkansas Soil and Water Division. I'm happy to
say that we have been able to work with Mr. Broyles, Mr. Forsythe, and
the Town Branch Neighborhood Association in a really productive way
for this particular sub basin, which we selected as our demonstration site
for the whole water shed. 40% of Fayetteville drains into the West Fork
of the White River and as such, the sediment studies have shown that the
Town Branch Stream is the main sediment contributor to the water shed,
our drinking water. It is vital from Audubon's perspective, that we really
look to creating some best management demonstration areas for other
developers, not just as an example, but as an attempt to realistically hold
our soils out of this drainage basin. We are contributing a whole lot of
sediment into the sub -basin as well and the upper watershed has been
paved off. To that end, the preservation area that you see, Audubon is
partnering with Mr. Broyles and the neighborhood association to preserve
as much of the riparian canopy as possible and the health of those riparian
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 5
Shackelford:
Hawkins:
Missing Tape
trees. We are pleased that this property has been deeded to the Corp. of
Engineers as part of the mitigation banking. That means that it is going to
have a federally protected status. Our staff, recently in the past week have
attended a Corp. of Engineers Dream Restoration Workshop. We will be
looking at this site for federal protection standards, way in which Audubon
can work with the developer to restore or replace any of the sick, mature
trees that they mentioned earlier in a way to absorb some of the storm
water runoff. The MS4 regs. will take care of a lot of that and of course,
we would look to the city to enforce any of our grading and drainage
ordinances. Another way to consider riparian trees and the creek buffer
strips is just visualizing them as living straws and so they are going to be
pulling up water and addressing all of those concerns that you just heard
from the neighborhood. Any way that we can increase that area, maintain
that area, and preserve it is something that I feel like each party has
spoken to and Audubon supports that and wants to work with the city and
the developers as much as possible.
Thank you Ms. Terry.
Hi, I'm Loren Hawkins. I appreciate your folks' hard work on various
issues concerning this. Hank has done a tremendously good job on
working on this plan. It is light years away from what it was originally
proposed. I, of course, feel like we can do more. My concerns are
various. This will be a buyer beware situation as far as sound goes. There
is a lovely ridge along the railroad that gets a lot of railroad traffic that
fortunately, these houses will create a barrier for me but for them who are
spending a great deal of money for these condos that would seem to be an
issue. I am concerned about the development of a Property Owners
Association if this is originally going to be condominiums that the
Property Owners Association understand their responsibility for runoff
and it's impact on those downstream. Those downstream now have
recourse according to Phase II for what development changes. This
property holds so much water it is unbelievable how one could expect it
not to increase the flow by that many roads, that many parking spaces. I
understand that the city is looking at requiring affordable housing within
Large Scale Developments. I am sorry to see that there really is no
provision for that in this huge development. To me this may be unique to
Fayetteville development but I don't believe it is unique to see rows and
rows of starter castle condominiums. I don't see it as a revitalization of
Fayetteville when houses were removed. I believe the removal of the
houses were included in the cleanup costs. I would really strongly ask that
you look at this very carefully. Thank you.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 6
Shackelford: Thank you for staying with us through the break there. We are going to
get back to the agenda. The next two items are Lot Splits for Ron Payne.
We are going to hear LSP 04-1312 and LSP 04-1343 as tandem items.
Suzanne?
Morgan: The applicant is seeking approval of two Lot Splits. The first Lot Split is
to split tract A, a .13 acre tract from the subject property. The total
property for this tract is 1.86 acres. Tract A has 75' of frontage and .3
acres. This property is located on Ray Avenue, west of Ray Avenue north
of Huntsville. It is immediately south of the Bassett subdivision. A lot of
the lots in the Bassett subdivision are narrow and very long lots with less
than 70' of frontage. Many of those owners have gone to the Board of
Adjustment for approval of a variance of lot width. The type of lots in
neighboring developments are very narrow and long. The subject property
has quite a bit of frontage on Ray Avenue, 209' of frontage, which, if
undeveloped, you could theoretically have three lots that would almost
meet our minimum of 70' of frontage. There is an existing home on this
property. The applicant is proposing to split the .3 acres from the north
and the LSP 04-1343 is a request to split the remainder into two tracts of
.44 and 1.12 acres. In essence, creating a tandem lot, a lot without
adequate frontage and located behind other lots. Right of way is required
to be dedicated in compliance with the Master Street Plan for 50' of right
of way for Ray Avenue as well as parks fees to be assessed. The applicant
has submitted a request for a Conditional Use approval of a tandem lot for
this 1.12 acre tract, which will incorporate quite a bit of land in the rear of
this property as well as just a little bit of land to the south. It doesn't have
direct frontage onto Ray Avenue, it is a strange configuration on that rear
lot line. Staff is recommending forwarding both of these Lot Splits to the
full Planning Commission for consideration with the Conditional Use so
that you can address all of these issues together, even though they are
proposing the creation of a tract of land that is compliant with our
ordinance. For each of these proposals we are recommending that they be
forwarded with conditions to address the approval of the tandem lot as
well as some minor plat changes.
Shackelford: I want to make sure I have this straight in my head. We have two
requests. Basically, the first request is to split it into a .3 and a 1.56 acre
tract. The second request is to further split the .56 into 1.12 and .44. If
both of these items are approved as presented, this is the drawing that we
will have at the end. I'm just a banker, I just have to make things real
clear sometimes. Thank you very much. Are there any other staff
comments regarding this?
O'Neal: On Lot C to show means of service for water and sewer, that will also
apply with the Conditional Use.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 7
Shackelford: Gentlemen, if you would introduce yourselves and add anything to this
conversation that you would like.
Payne: My name is Ron Payne, I'm the property owner.
Reid: I'm Alan Reid, I did the survey for Mr. Payne.
Shackelford: Is there anything else that you would like to add to the comments that we
just heard?
Payne:
Not really Sir. The existing home that is on the property was in pretty bad
condition when we bought the property. We have spent about $25,000
renovating it. It was more or less one of the worst houses on the street. I
think what we are trying to do here would be an improvement to the
neighborhood. My middle daughter is buying the existing home from us.
The back lot, we plan to build a home on it for our youngest daughter.
Shackelford: At this point I will open it up for public comment if there is anyone that
would like to address either LSP 04-1343 or LSP 1312 please address the
Commission at this time.
Lancaster: I would like to know, I own property up there, this is adjoining mine.
Which end are you on? I just wanted to know if you are by the church.
Payne: This is you on this end here. You are on Ray Avenue?
Lancaster: Yes.
Payne: You are probably south of the church.
Lancaster: Thank you.
Shackelford: Is there anybody else that would like to address either of these Lot Splits?
Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back to the Planning Commission
for questions or comments.
Ostner: I have a question for staff. This is really for my understanding more than
anything else, we are splitting and splitting again, that is not considered a
subdivision of land?
Pate:
A Lot Split is a subdivision of land. However, if it has not been split more
than three times you can split that through a waiver of Preliminary and
Final Plat requirements. That is the reason we can look at a Lot Split
request.
Ostner: How far back is being split go and have a bearing?
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 8
Pate: 1985.
Morgan:
Ostner:
This property has not been split since 1985 so they are able to process two
Lot Splits with a maximum of three.
This all looks good to me. I will make a motion that we forward to the
Planning Commission LSP 04-1312.
Shackelford: I will second.
Clark: I will concur.
Ostner: The second Lot Split, LSP 04-1343 I will make a motion that we forward
to the Planning Commission.
Shackelford: I will second that as well.
Clark: I will concur.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 9
Shackelford: Next we have LSP 04-1314 for Doty. Will the applicant come forward?
Olson: The applicant seeks approval for a Lot Split on the subject property, it is a
8.11 acre tract into two tracts of 3.94 and 4.17 acres respectively. This
property was bisected by Sunshine Road (County Road #877) and the
applicant is now coming forward to make those legal lots in order to have
two clear deeds. This is located in the County. Public water and sewer
are not available at this location. Right of way being dedicated, a total of
90' of right of way is being dedicated for Sunshine Road. The
surrounding land uses, again, this is all in the County so there is no zoning
designation there. Staff does recommend approval of this Lot Split at the
Subdivision Committee level with the condition that Washington County
approval be obtained prior to recordation.
Shackelford:
Doty:
Thank you Sir. Are there any other staff comments regarding this Lot
Split? Seeing none, I will let you introduce yourself and add anything that
you would like.
I don't know if it is pertinent or not, there is water on the lower tract, Tract
B.
Shackelford: At this point I am going to open it up to public comment if anyone would
like to address LSP 04-1314. Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back
to the Commission.
Clark:
Ostner:
Shackelford:
What you are doing is just putting one lot on one side of the road and one
lot on the other side of the road? Wow! Ok. I am going to move that we
approve LSP 04-1314 with conditions as stated.
I will second.
I will concur. Thank you Sir.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 10
Shackelford: Next we have another Lot Split, LSP 04-1315 for Richardson/Creel. If the
applicant could please come forward.
Morgan: The subject property is located south of 6`h Street, east of Duncan Street, it
is actually just south of the proposed Aspen Ridge PZD. It is currently
developed for one single family residence and zoned RMF -24. This site is
somewhat heavily wooded in the rear and has a 100 -year floodplain
located in the rear of the property. The applicant is seeking approval of a
Lot Split for the .82 acre tract into two tracts of .51 and .31 acres. The
applicant proposes to subdivide the southern portion of the property,
which is currently used for access, a garage and a shed to serve the
existing single family dwelling. Because the garage and shed are
accessory and located on the proposed lot, they must be removed prior to
recordation of this Lot Split because there is no primary structure on the
lot. Also, water and sewer is located within the Duncan Avenue right of
way and is available to the subject property. Surrounding land use
consists of single family dwellings and is zoned RMF -24. The applicant is
also proposing dedication of right of way along Duncan Avenue in
compliance with the Master Street Plan. Parks fees in the amount of $555
will be assessed for one new single family home. Recommendation is
approval at this time. We do show with eight conditions of approval.
Specifically, I would like to address condition one. Applicant shall verify
the height of the existing structure, just to verify appropriate setbacks for
the new proposed lot line. Also, that the existing garage and shed shall be
removed prior to recordation. Currently, if you look at the plat, there is a
driveway on the proposed lot, I assume to access the garage that is there
and the single family home that is existing. Either an access easement to
access both lots shall be filed with this Lot Split or at the time of building
permit for the newly created lot a driveway shall be constructed for each
lot conforming to city specifications to include construction of a sidewalk
at the right of way. There are some minor comments.
Shackelford: Thank you Suzanne. At this point I will ask for any other depaitmental or
staff comments regarding this Lot Split.
O'Neal:
On the water and the sewer you need to check the size of those utilities
and also, on the floodplain, I appreciate the applicant showing the area of
the floodplain. However, we do need to label the elevation and they can
get that through our Floodplain Administrator.
Shackelford: Thank you. Gentlemen, if you would please introduce yourselves and add
anything pertinent to the comments that we have heard regarding the Lot
Split.
Richardson: I'm Herb Richardson, the property owner.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 11
Reid:
Shackelford:
Jumper:
Shackelford:
Osmer:
Morgan:
Ostner:
Morgan:
Shackelford:
Morgan:
Osmer:
Shackelford:
Clark:
Ostner:
Clark:
Shackelford:
I'm Alan Reid, the surveyor.
Are there any other comments regarding this? At this point I will open it
up to public comment, if anybody would like to address LSP 04-1315
please do so at this time. Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back. I
had one question for the Parks Planner. On page three it shows a money
in lieu calculation. Obviously, there are two different money in lieu
options for Lot Splits and this calculation shows money in lieu of $393 but
the conditions of approval call for a parks fee of $555. Can you clarify the
difference on those two items?
If they are intending to build a single family home the parks fees will be
$555. If it is multi -family it is $393.
Thank you for the clarification.
My question was basically covered by Ms. Morgan about your current
driveway. Also, on the drawing there is an existing right of way and there
is a right of way as per Master Street Plan. Which one are they having to
abide by?
They will have to abide by the right of way per the Master Street Plan. As
one of the comments, it is a condition, we have asked that it be shown to
be dedicated per this plat so it is an additional 5' dedication.
That is of course, both lots, the existing home and the one that they are
splitting off.
Yes.
That looks to be addressed in condition number five, is that correct?
Yes.
That is fine with me.
Commissioner Clark, are there any questions?
No.
I will make a motion that we approve LSP 04-1315.
Second.
I will concur. Thank you.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 12
Shackelford: That gets us to item ten, LSP 04-1316 for Stratton. If the applicant could
please come forward I will ask for staff comments from Mr. Olson at this
time.
Olson: The applicant seeks approval for a Lot Split for the subject 4.45 acre tract
into two tracts of 2.00 and 2.45 acres respectively. This property is
located on Dinsmore Trail north of 6th Street. The property is split by two
zoning districts, RSF-4 and R -A. There is an 8" water line available along
Dinsmore Trail. For sewer, the existing home on tract A has a septic
system. However, the property to the west of this proposed Lot Split does
have access to sanitary sewer. The location of which has not been shown
on the plat. A total of 35' of right of way will be dedicated along the east
side of Dinsmore Trail with this plat. This property is surrounded by
several different zoning designations, RSF-4 to the north, R -A, Residential
Agricultural to the south and the east and RMF -24 to the west. Dinsmore
Trail is classified as a collector street and 6th Street is classified as a
principal arterial on the Master Street Plan. Conditions of approval, staff
does recommend approval but several issues need to be resolved with the
plat prior to recordation. They need to show the line separating the RSF-4
portion of these lots from the R -A portion. Show the location of the
existing septic system for Tract A. The location of the sewer manhole
located to the west of these tracts and the actual site location on the
vicinity map.
Shackelford: Thank you Mr. Olson. Are there any other departmental or staff
comments regarding LSP 04-1316?
O'Neal:
Yes. Again, the applicant has shown the 100 -year floodplain, they just
need to label an approximate elevation. Also, on the water line, I believe
there is a fire hydrant adjacent to Tract A. If they would show that.
Jumper: Parks fees will be due for this in the amount of $555 for single family.
Blew: I'm Buckley Blew with Blew & Associates Surveyors here to answer any
questions that you guys might have.
Shackelford: At this point I will open it up to public comment if anybody would like to
address LSP 04-1316 please do so at this time. Seeing none, I will close it
and bring it back to the Commissioners for questions and comments.
Ostner: I have a quick question for staff. Dinsmore is listed as a collector here.
Where on this locator map is the proposed future minor arterial that we are
calling Rupple way up by the Boys and Girls Club? Is it near here?
Olson: If you look at the last map in your packet on the last page it shows the
approximate location of Rupple. It is quite a ways west of this and the
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 13
Clark:
Ostner:
Pate:
topography there, I'm not sure that Rupple will actually come in a straight
due south location over the top of that mountain.
We heard at the last Planning Commission that they were going to alter
Rupple to go around that mountain.
That is where I was going. This is beyond our level, this is to the City
Council. A lot of times when you alter those approximate Master Street
Plan locations you have a tendency to go to streets that exist. That is why
I'm asking. Dinsmore is not too far away. I would hate to limit our right
of way dedication at this point if something like that is in the works.
People are already talking about changing it. Is that any kind of
consideration or is that not really within our purvey?
The applicant at this time is required to comply with our current Master
Street Plan requirement. Much as the developer along Rupple Road would
be unless the City Council through a policy decision decided to change the
location of Rupple Road to somewhere.
Osmer: Great. That was my only comment.
Clark: This is rather straight forward.
Pate: Brent, will you address the sewer please?
O'Neal: When existing public sewer is within 300' of the residence there is a
requirement that they extend the sewer. That is one of the statements
made by Mr. Olson. On the existing sewer, I believe that they are beyond
300' for extending and connecting to the public sewer. That is what that
needs to be to clarify it.
Pate:
Following up on that, staff would like to add a condition stating per our
city ordinances, that if a public sewer line is within 300' of this property
these lots will be required to extend that sewer line prior to filing this Lot
Split, much like any Lot Split we see within the city limits. That is the
primary reason we need to find out where that manhole is.
Clark: You want to add that as a condition of approval?
Pate: Yes Ma'am.
Clark: I will make a motion that we approve LSP 04-1316 with the stated four
conditions of approval, including the one that Jeremy just read, that if the
public sewer is within 300' both houses will have to connect.
Ostner: Second.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 14
Shackelford: I will concur. Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 15
Shackelford: Next we have LSP 04-1321 for Guinn. It looks like we have the same
applicant in front of us. Mr. Olson, if you could give us staff's comments
please.
Olson: Sure. The applicant seeks approval for a Lot Split for the subject 16.25
acre tract into two tracts of 4.39 and 11.86 acres respectively. This
property was bisected by Van Hoose Road and the property owner now
wants to split off that land that lies to the west. Public water is available at
this location. Public sewer is not because it is located within the Planning
Area. 60' of right of way will be dedicated for Van Hoose Road. All
surrounding lands are located in the county and therefore, do not have
zoning. Staff does recommend approval of this Lot Split with the
condition that Washington County Planning approval be obtained prior to
recordation.
Shackelford: Thank you Sir. Are there any other staff comments, departmental reports
regarding LSP 04-1321?
Is this on a well system for water?
The existing house is on water.
Could you show the water meter?
Are there any other comments? Seeing none, will the applicant introduce
himself and add anything.
Blew: I'm Buckley Blew, Blew & Associates Surveyors, I will answer any
questions that you guys might have.
O'Neal:
Blew:
O'Neal:
Shackelford:
Shackelford:
Clark:
Shackelford:
Ostner:
Clark:
Thank you Sir. At this point I will open it up for public comment if
anybody would like to address LSP 04-1321 for Guinn please do so at this
time. Seeing none, I will bring it back to the Commission for questions
and comments.
Again, this is just going from one side of the road to the other.
Commissioners, do you have any questions?
I will make a motion that we approve LSP 04-1321.
Second.
Shackelford: There is a motion and a second and I will concur. Thank you.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 16
Shackelford: Keeping with the trend of Lot Splits. We have one more, LSP 04-1322 for
McDonald/Bridgedale. If the applicant would please come forward.
Morgan: The subject property is located south of Huntsville Road and west of
Roberts Road. The applicant proposes to subdivide the almost 7.47 acre
tract into two tracts, A and B, of approximately 5.67 and 1.8 acres
respectively. Tract A is located within the city and Tract B is located
within the Planning Area. Tract B does not have any frontage on a right of
way. Therefore, the applicant has submitted a request to waive the
requirement of 75' of lot width. Just to go over a little bit of background
for this request, the subject property was part of an annexation and a
rezoning request submitted in 2004. Upon discovering that annexing this
entire parent tract would create an island of unincorporated property
within the city limits, staff recommended that the applicant reconsider this
annexation request. The second annexation request consisted of
annexation of only a portion of the property, which is designated here as
Tract A so that an island would not be created. The City Council did
approve that annexation in August, 2004 resulting in this property being
both within the city and in the county. Subsequently, the new property
owner, Mr. McDonald, applied for approval of a Preliminary Plat for
Bridgedale subdivision on the newly annexed portion of the property. The
Planning Commission did approve the Preliminary Plat on October 29th of
this year. The plat designated a 25' access easement north from the
extension of East Point Street to access this proposed Tract B, the 1.8
acres, part of which was designated as drainage easement for the
subdivision. Staff recommends that the Lot Split not be filed until such
time as the Final Plat for Bridgedale subdivision is approved and the use
of this lot is established. That has been addressed in condition number
two for conditions of approval. In conjunction with that, approval of that
condition would give an automatic extension of the one year expiration of
the Lot Split. The reasoning behind that is that this lot is being split from
the proposed subdivision because it is within the county and it is
designated for detention. If the Final Plat for Bridgedale is never filed
then the creation of this separate lot is kind of null and void, the purpose
of it. That is the reasoning there. As for access, the proposed Tract A
currently has access to a stubbed road, East Point, from Stonebridge
Meadows Phase I. Tract B however, has no frontage on an improved
public street or any right of way. The only means of access, as I
mentioned before, is through a 25' access easement from the proposed
subdivision for Bridgedale. The applicant's representative did, again,
submit a waiver request for lot width requirements which would have to
be heard by the Planning Commission. This appears as a tandem lot, but
because this is in the county and there is no zoning then it is not
appropriate to file a Conditional Use, which, is basically a waiver of
zoning requirements. Therefore, they are only required to submit a waiver
of lot width requirements within the county. Staff also recommends, and
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 17
it is mentioned in condition number one of the approval, that the proposed
Tract B shall be restricted from all development until appropriate
infrastructure is provided. I have listed several reasons for this. Basically,
this proposed Tract B is designated to serve and function for detention, at
least a portion of it is. It is important that it remain as detention for the
property at this time. There is also, staff believes, lack of infrastructure to
sustain any development. In addition, the city will not be able to control
any development on this property because it is at this time within the
county and we could not review any development proposals on this tract.
Access is only by way of an easement. Therefore, this easement is
actually located on two lots within the Bridgedale Subdivision. It is
inappropriate to establish a driveway on these lots which will access
development which we will not be able to control. Also, the Preliminary
Plat for the Bridgedale subdivision could have included a stub out to this
tract to provide adequate infrastructure for future development but it was
not incorporated in that Preliminary Plat. The applicant's representative,
I'm sure, will probably address that issue. Staff is recommending
forwarding this Lot Split to the full Planning Commission due to the
waiver requests for lot width and I do not believe I mentioned that as a
condition but an additional condition should be added stating Planning
Commission determination of a waiver for lot width requirements to allow
a lot with zero frontage.
Shackelford: Are there any other staff or departmental comments regarding this Lot
Split? Seeing none, I will let the applicant introduce himself and add
anything that he would like.
Jefcoat: I'm Tom Jefcoat with Milholland Company. I think that we have
discussed several issues with Planning staff and Suzanne understands our
feelings about possible future development and how things will change.
This Lot Split has occurred so that an island was not created in the city
limits. As a matter of schematics and as future expansion of the city limits
takes place and future proposed development that we are not ready to
release yet, occurs, things and dynamics will start to change and some of
these restrictions and things that Suzanne and I have talked about will then
alter that lot but we are satisfied with the conditions as presented and we
concur.
Shackelford: Thank you Tom. If there is anybody here that would like to discuss LSP
04-1322 I will open it up for public comment at this time. Seeing none, I
will close it and bring it back to the Commissioners for questions.
Clark: Why didn't we just annex all of this?
Jefcoat: We couldn't because it created an island.
Subdivision
December 3
Page 18
Morgan:
Jefcoat:
Clark:
Jefcoat:
Morgan:
Jefcoat:
Clark:
Jefcoat:
Clark:
Jefcoat:
Pate:
Committee
, 2004
All of the area north of this is within the county and so by annexing this it
would create an island to the north and you can probably see that on your
map.
It would've been nice.
How much of Tract A is going to be a detention pond?
None of Tract A is going to be a detention pond. Just a part of B, and you
see the line where it says "DE" and "DE". Actually, there is another line
that did not show up on here but it does cut across here. 3/4 or 4/5 of that
lot is now designated as a drainage easement. As the Engineering
Department knows, there are some downstream conditions that exist and
with future development that drainage easement at some point will be
eliminated and that detention facility at some point will be relocated. For
now, that is the area of detention.
I would like to mention, a note has been placed per staff's request, that
Tract B is an un -buildable lot. As we further reviewed this, and as noted
in the conditions, we feel that until such time as adequate infrastructure
and right of way is provided to develop that that it should be un -buildable.
We may need to modify that note to reflect that condition.
We are opposed to labeling the lot as un -buildable. It is un -buildable
because a drainage easement exists because infrastructure is not there so
that makes it un -buildable. We don't want it labeled un -buildable on a
recorded plat as un -buildable. Those conditions will change at some point
and it will be buildable. It destroys any future use or intended use of the
lot if you label it un -buildable. The fact that there are drainage easements
and conditions that cause it not to be buildable, that is fine and we
understand that.
So it should be labeled un -buildable.
It is not un -buildable.
It is un -buildable right now but we can change the designation on the plat
when it becomes buildable.
That just puts contestations there that are not necessarily true.
I would just add a few things to that. What Mr. Jefcoat says is true. The
detention easement has a lot to do with it. Staff's concern is that there is
no access to this lot. That is another reason that it is un -buildable at this
time. Should the Planning Commission choose to follow staff's
recommendation and have this as an un -buildable lot at a future date if the
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 19
applicant or owner of this property wishes to subdivide they would have to
come back through the Planning Commission and the Planning
Commission reserves the right to change that condition and remove that
condition of approval. It is under your decision to do that at this time and
remove it at a later time when the access or infrastructure becomes
available at a later time, for instance, to build a single family home.
Clark: It is an interesting looking configuration. It is kind of a box within a box
with only one road out.
Morgan: That is correct. That is the stub out and Bridgedale subdivision continues
through to Roberts Road and then there is a road going north there and
then there is an access easement between two lots to access that for
detention purposes.
Clark: When it develops I can see it becoming buildable.
Jefcoat: We have a cul-de-sac up here and this road continues on. We are in the
preliminary stages of design.
Shackelford: Commissioners, are there any questions?
Clark:
I have no problem with forwarding this to the Planning Commission with
the now stated five conditions of approval. I honestly don't object to tract
B being called un -buildable at this point because you are going to come
back with a new configuration and magically, it will be buildable and you
will be a hero.
Shackelford: There will have to be a couple of findings of fact at the Planning
Commission level regarding the zero frontage waiver that was required for
that. We can address that.
Ostner: Since we are forwarding this, I think we are going to give it more scrutiny.
I will make a motion that we forward LSP 04-1322 with the added
condition number five with a requirement of Planning Commission
determination of a lot with zero frontage.
Clark: I will second.
Shackelford: I will concur.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 20
Shackelford: The next thing that we have on the agenda is FPL 04-1285 for Bridgeport
Phase VII. If the applicant could please come forward. I will ask for
Suzanne's comments.
Morgan:
Shackelford:
Pate:
The applicant is requesting a Final Plat approval for Phase VII of
Bridgeport subdivision. This will create 13 single family lots on
approximately 8.87 acres. The property is located south of Mt. Comfort
and delineated by Bridgeport Phase I and Bridgeport Phase III to the west
and a future Phase VII to the south. My understanding is that the
applicant does desire to change the name of this subdivision to Bridgeport
Estates thereby creating a separate and distinct subdivision and POA. The
subdivision name must be changed to Bridgeport Estates Phase I on this
Final Plat for it to become officially recognized. Therefore, the formerly
known Bridgeport Phase VIII would become Bridgeport Estates Phase II.
The Planning Commission approved the Preliminary Plat for these two
phases on April 12, 2004. As part of the approval for the Preliminary Plat
a Property Line Adjustment was required to create the subject property for
these two phases. Staff has received that survey for the Property Line
Adjustment and will ensure that it is filed prior to the Final Plat. We have
received revisions and are in the process of getting that finalized.
Infrastructure is in place for American Drive. This street stub outs to the
east. Full street improvements stop short of the property line however,
and an assessment is to be made for that portion of un -constructed street.
Additionally, the applicant has indicated that a sign would be placed at the
end of that stub out just to make property owners aware that this street is
proposed to continue to the east at the time of future development to the
east. Adjacent Master Street Plan streets are Mt. Comfort. However, not
adjacent to this, connected with this subdivision or Phase and New Bridge
Road is to the south. Staff does recommend approval of this Final Plat at
the Subdivision Committee level with a total of 16 conditions of approval
to include payment in lieu of parkland dedication as well as an assessment
for the additional street construction along American Drive. As part of the
Conditional Use, it was required that the construction office be removed at
the time of Final Plat. I don't know if that condition has been complied
with at this time but it will need to be removed prior to recordation of this
plat. All other conditions are fairly standard and there are some tree
preservation conditions which Jeremy may wish to address.
Jeremy, do you want to talk to us about tree preservation?
Very quickly. The developer has met the tree preservation ordinance.
Approval is recommended of this plan with a couple of revisions on the
language of the signature block which I've included. In some discussions
with the applicant, I just got a fax a couple of days ago with some
language to include in the covenants to ensure a permanent protection area
along the floodplain there. As you may or may not know, a single family
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 21
home owner on individual lots are expressly exempt from tree
preservation requirements. Therefore, technically a tree preservation
easement cannot be established along the backs of these because it could
not be enforced. The applicant is working with us to establish something
in the covenants to help that case.
Shackelford: Thank you very much. Are there any other staff departmental comments
regarding the Final Plat for Bridgeport Estates Phase I? Seeing none, I
will bring it back to the applicants and allow you to add anything to this
proceeding.
Helmer: I'm Bill Helmer, the project manager for the development. I will answer
any questions that you may have. I will add that as far as removal of the
construction office that that is in progress. We have everything turned
lose and are waiting for the power company to come by today and
disconnect it and move it out. This afternoon you may run by and check
it.
Morgan:
Ostner:
Shackelford:
Helmer:
Bates:
Shackelford:
Clark:
Ostner:
Clark:
Ostner:
Just let me know and I will make a trip out there.
I can't believe we are still talking about that construction trailer.
I came on the Commission in 1999 and believe it was there at that time.
Sorry, we are getting side track. Is there anything else?
I don't have anything else.
I'm Geoff Bates, I'm the engineer on the project for Keystone. I don't
really have anything additional to add.
At this point I will open it up for public comment if anybody would like to
address FPL 04-1285 for Bridgeport Estates please do so at this time.
Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back to the Commissioners for
questions or comments.
My two questions that I made notes of were covenants protecting the trees.
You have saved more than you had to and I truly do commend you for
that. Secondly, connectivity, which I'm seeing on the bigger picture with
the map so my two issues have been satisfied.
Where is that connectivity separate map?
I was looking at the big picture on the last two pages.
For Bridge Road to head east to Rupple?
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 22
Clark: And Freedom Place.
Ostner: Where is Bridgeport Estates Phase II proposed?
Bates: South.
Ostner: And the proposed access?
Helmer: Access to it would be off of New Bridge, which New Bridge will continue
through to this property line also.
Ostner: And it will access up in here.
Morgan: I believe there is even a connection to the south from that phase.
Shackelford: Right into the other one right here.
Helmer: We have two off of New Bridge through here.
Pate: That was reviewed and approved with the Preliminary Plat for Phases VII
and VIII.
Bates: And it was submitted already for the Final Plat of Phase VII.
Shackelford: Commissioners, are there questions or comments?
Ostner: I will make a motion that we approve FPL 04-1285.
Clark: I will second.
Shackelford: I will concur. I assume it doesn't matter if we call it Phase I or Phase VII
as long as it is approved. Thank you gentlemen.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 23
Shackelford: The next item on our agenda is FPL 04-1278 for Allen subdivision. If the
applicant would please come forward. At this time I will ask for staff
comments from Suzanne please.
Morgan: The applicant would like to request approval of a Final Plat for a three lot
residential subdivision. This property is located within the Planning Area
and located north and east of Old Wire Road. The property consists of
approximately 10 acres in which a single family home currently exists. A
Preliminary Plat for the proposed Allen subdivision was approved by the
Planning Commission on July 12, 2004 with the approval of the
Preliminary Plat they were required to extend a water line slightly to the
north and after doing so, they have applied for their Final Plat approval.
Surrounding properties are residential in nature as well as agricultural.
There was a condition on the Preliminary Plat that all lots receive septic
approval, or at least, lot three. However, the final revision increased the
acreage of that lot to 1.61 therefore, the city does not need to verify
approvals for the septic system which actually exists at this time. Right of
way is being dedicated along Old Wire Road in accordance with the
Master Street Plan. In conjunction with that, one of the conditions of
approval is that no structure shall be located within the right of way
required for Old Wire Road. With the previous revision of this plat it
looked like there were a couple of structures that were located slightly
within the required right of way. Those have been removed. I don't know
if they have been removed from the property at this time but we will make
sure that that right of way to be dedicated does not have any structures
within it. Staff is recommending approval of this Final Plat with a total of
six conditions. Washington County approval is required prior to filing this
Final Plat. Staff would request that this plat be revised to show building
setbacks indicated on these lots. Typically on Final Plats we see addresses
for these lots. Due to such large acreage the 911 Coordinator is not able to
indicate what addresses would be applied. At the time that the structures
are constructed addresses would be approved.
Shackelford: Thank you very much. Are there any there staff or departmental
comments regarding this Final Plat for Allen Subdivision at this time?
Seeing none, I will allow you to introduce yourselves and tell us anything
that you want to about your project.
Brackett: I'm Chris Brackett with Jorgensen & Associates here representing the
owners. We are in agreement with all of the conditions of approval and
will answer any questions that you may have.
Shackelford: Great. At this point I will open it up to public comment if anyone would
like to address FPL 04-1278 for Allen Subdivision please do so at this
time. Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back to the Planning
Commissioners. Commissioners, are there questions or comments? My
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 24
question is regarding the existing structures that were shown in the right of
way, have those been removed?
Brackett: Those have been removed.
Shackelford: Are there any other questions or comments?
Clark: It looks pretty straight forward.
Ostner: I don't have any problems with it. 1 would like to make a motion to
approve FPL 04-1278.
Clark: Second.
Shackelford: I will concur Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 25
Shackelford: The next item on our agenda is PPL 04-1310 for Cross Keys Phase II. If
the applicant would please come forward. Mr. Olson, I believe this is
yours.
Olson: The applicant requests approval for a Preliminary Plat for Cross Keys
Phase II. The subject property contains approximately 34.80 acres and is
within the R -A zoning district. The property is proposed to be subdivided
into 22 lots, 20 for development of single family homes and two lots for
storm water detention. This property was annexed at the request of the
owner August 3, 2004 by ordinance 4596 and subsequently zoned R -A.
This property is a portion of a larger parcel of land that was annexed and
currently we do have a Lot Split in process to create this tract. The
surrounding zoning to the north is Cross Keys Phase I and an R-PZD and
some RSF-4. The south, east and west are pretty much vacant and zoned
R -A, Residential Agricultural. Street improvements, staff does
recommend that the developer shall construct Persimmon Street a
minimum of 14' from centerline with curb, gutter, pavement, storm drains
and a 6' sidewalk located at the right of way line along the length of the
property. In lieu of constructing Broyles Street adjacent to the subject
property staff recommends the developer bear the cost of installing a
planned turning lane at the intersection of Persimmon Street and Broyles
Road along with a 6' sidewalk that would be located at the right of way
line for Broyles Road as you go south there. Like I said, a Lot Split is in
process for this. As part of this Preliminary Plat, dedication of the Master
Street Plan right of way for the entire 158 acre tract should occur with this
plat. Right of way dedication is to be by separate instrument. Appropriate
easements for public utilities are also required and descriptions are being
furnished to the applicant. Water and sewer shall be extended to serve this
development. Right of way being dedicated, 35' from centerline of
Persimmon Street. The development will be dedicating a varying right of
way for Broyles Road along it's parent tract frontage depending on where
that property line lies in relationship to Broyles Road on the Master Street
Plan. Connectivity, this development will improve and extend Persimmon
Street to the east. Access to this development currently is provided by 46th
Street and will in the near future be accessible via Broyles Road to
Wedington. Master Street Plan improvements are being planned for the
extension of Rupple Road and Persimmon Street as well as Broyles Road.
Adjacent Master Street Plan streets, Persimmon Street and Broyles Road
are collector streets. Parks and Recreation Board recommended money in
lieu of land dedication in September, 2004 in the amount of $11,100 for
20 single family lots. Tree preservation, I will go over this really quick.
There will be some mitigation required and Jeremy can speak to that in a
minute. Staff does recommend forwarding this Preliminary Plat to the full
Planning Commission with the following nine conditions of approval.
The first one speaks to the road improvements. The developer shall
construct Persimmon Street a minimum of 14' from the centerline with a
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 26
6' sidewalk in lieu of constructing Broyles Road. Staff, again,
recommends that the developer installs the planned turn lane at the
intersection of Persimmon Street and Broyles Road. A 6' sidewalk shall
be constructed at the right of way line along Broyles Road frontage of the
subject Preliminary Plat and right of way dedication to meet Master Street
Plan requirements is to be dedicated by separate instrument for all streets
fronting the original 158 acre tract with all necessary easements recorded
at the same time. The rest of those conditions are pretty straight forward.
If you have any questions I will be happy to answer those.
Shackelford: Thank you Sir. Are there any other staff or departmental comments?
Jeremy, do you want to talk quickly about tree preservation?
Pate:
The developer fully intends to retain all of the trees on site. However, with
the platting of at least two easements for this subject property we cannot
count that portion of the canopy that is within those easements because
technically a utility company can come by and take it right out. There is
mitigation due in the amount of twelve trees. Mr. Sloan typically utilizes
the on site mitigation request.
Shackelford: Even though the development doesn't take out any trees, because of the
easements they are required to put more trees on location, is that correct?
Pate: Because they are putting the easement there, that is correct. It is not
existing currently.
Shackelford: Thank you very much. Is there anything else from staff depaitmental
comments? Seeing none, I will bring it back to you guys, allow you to
introduce yourselves and share anything that you would like about your
project.
Sloan: I'm Charlie Sloan, the owner/developer.
Brackett: I'm Chris Brackett with Jorgensen & Associates.
Sloan: I believe we are ok with the conditions. Some of them we were just told
about last night. The tree mitigation, Jeremy answered that. That is fine
with the replant. We have already 100 something trees 4" to 6" in
diameter already purchased so we are just waiting for these guys to get
through construction so we can plant them along the streets down 46th
Street and down Persimmon on both sides is what we plan right now. I
don't have a problem doing the turn lane on Persimmon and the sidewalk,
that is no problem. That needs to be done now while we are there and get
it over with. That's no problem. The easements and stuff, the only thing
that we are going to continue discussing is I'm giving up easements on
land that is not even before you so I think it ought to be, I don't have a
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 27
problem doing it, but since I wasn't told about it until last night I need to
check and make sure that I'm doing the right thing on that part. I think we
are going to discuss that in the next couple of days before the final
Planning Commission meeting. That's all that I have got. Other than that,
I think we are ok with everything.
Shackelford: Thank you very much. At this point I will open it up for public comment
if anybody would like to address PPL 04-1310 for Cross Keys Phase II
please do so at this point. Seeing none, I will close it and bring it back to
the Planning Commission.
Ostner: The first comment I had was these trees that you are keeping on site with
these lots, I would hope that you would come up with something creative
to try to convince the future owners of these lots. Mr. Terminella sat with
us at a hillside meeting the other day and talked about a $100,000 tree that
he built a sewer line around and watched the home owner saw it down. It
is a problem with our system that we require you to save trees but we
don't require the next guy. It seems like you are going to great efforts and
I would hope you do something for that.
Sloan:
We are going to great efforts. Some of these trees are very large and we
want to make sure we keep them. We have very few trees on the 200
acres so there is no sense to take any of them down. That is why we have
planned and purchased a lot more to go in there. That is our goal to try to
work with home owners and prior to Final Plat we would look at a
property line if it needed to be moved or something like that to try to
adjust things to make things work for people so they can build. We are
going to have 100' minimum setbacks on these homes to try to keep the
trees.
Ostner: The 100' setback leads into my next comment. Persimmon is listed as a
collector and the speeds ought to be a little bit faster there than most local
streets and with these wide frontages I would hope that most of these lots
are encouraged to do turn arounds.
Sloan:
We are hoping to make oval drives. I have an oval drive on my home and
we would like for everybody to at least have a circle drive with side entry
garages and things like that to make them go out face forward. I don't
think anybody will back up 100' into a street. We hope that they won't.
We are trying to make it look like an estate lot.
Ostner: This is a great example of how good design can overwhelm our rules that
don't exactly work sometimes. Our Master Street Plan requirements
aren't supposed to let houses face collector streets as a rule of safety. It
can be done, and it can be done safely, with good design. I just wanted to
make that point. I think it is good for the community.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 28
Shackelford:
Clark:
Brackett:
Are there any other questions?
I'm assuming there is no issue with connectivity to the south?
There is a creek here and Broyles Street is going to be extended to Rupple
so there is no need to cross that creek again.
Clark: Is it traditional to consider Preliminary Plats on acreage that is still
undergoing Lot Splits?
Pate:
It is. That is part of the condition that that needs to occur. This is the
submitted Lot Split to create this tract. The legal description you see here
was rezoned under the legal description, just the lot was never split out.
Before we get to that point where it is approved this needs to be recorded.
Clark: I would think so.
Pate:
Sloan:
Clark:
Ostner:
Shackelford:
To talk about the issue Mr. Sloan spoke about, you can see from this large
tract, this is the frontage of Broyles Road that Mr. Sloan is processing now
as part of this Preliminary Plat, which is currently a portion of all of this
property, 160+ acres. As part of our conditions of approval currently, and
what we will continue discussing with the applicant before Planning
Commission, staff is recommending that the right of way for Broyles Road
and necessary water and sewer line easements for this entire tract be
deeded at this time with this Preliminary Plat and that is something that we
will working with the applicant on.
It benefits me so I understand that. I knew that when we bought it, it is
just that we thought that would come along as the projects went through.
To ask for it all up front, I wasn't expecting that.
You come to see us so often that we may as well get it all done.
Considering all comments, I will be happy to make a motion to forward
PPL 04-1310 with stated conditions of approval.
I will second that.
I will concur. Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 29
Shackelford: The final item on our agenda this afternoon is PPL 04-1308 for Harper.
This is a Preliminary Plat. Suzanne?
Morgan: The subject property contains approximately 20 acres. It is located west
of George Anderson Road south of Albright Road. This property was
actually recently annexed into the city from Springdale and rezoned RSF-
4. The applicant proposes to create a 48 lot subdivision with 47 single
family lots proposed. Surrounding land uses consist of single family
residential uses as well as vacant property to the south which is currently
undergoing development of subdivisions. The property to the north is
within Springdale. To the south is within Fayetteville, zoned RSF-4. The
property to the east is within the Planning Area, the property to the west is
within the County as well as Springdale and the city actually approved an
annexation, or is considering approval of an annexation and rezoning for
this property. Water lines and sewer lines will need to be extended to
serve the proposed development with approval of this Preliminary Plat.
Adjacent Master Street Plan streets consist of George Anderson Road
which is to the east of this property. It is a collector street and the
applicant is proposing dedication of the required 35' from centerline. In
addition to that, the applicant is showing 25' from centerline for Albright
Road to be dedicated, as well as 50' right of way for all interior streets.
Connectivity is proposed to the south from a Phase of Copper Creek
subdivision. Two connections to the north to Albright have been proposed
and one connection to the west that will be stubbed out for future
connectivity. Additionally, I would like to note that the developer has
included a note to restrict access onto George Anderson, a collector, and
Albright Road. I would like to mention that the existing homes on
Albright are facing Albright and staff did request that the applicant
consider the possibility of lining these streets up so that they could face
Albright Road to be consistent with the existing development. Staff is
recommending forwarding this Preliminary Plat to the full Planning
Commission with a total of 15 conditions of approval to include Planning
Commission determination of appropriate street connectivity. Staff does
find that the street connections to the west, north and south are
appropriate. Planning Commission determination of street improvements.
At the time that this property was annexed and rezoned we did make
findings with regard to the existing street conditions and what
improvements we would be requesting at a later date when this was
developed. Those include widening George Anderson Road 14' from
centerline including storm drains, curb, gutter and pavement and
sidewalks. As well as the east side of that road, which is within the county
to be improved to current county standards. In addition, Albright Road
will also need to be improved 14' from centerline including city
requirements for storm drain, curb, gutter, pavement and sidewalks. There
are a couple of modifications and note changes that staff has requested on
the plat before it goes forward to the Planning Commission. Engineering
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 30
has also requested that the force main for Hwy. 265 lift station be
upgraded to city engineering specifications as listed in condition four of
the staff report. I will let Parks and the Landscape Administrator address
any of the additional comments.
Shackelford: We will start with Parks this time if you would like to give us your
comments please.
Jumper: Parks fees in the amount of $26,640 will be due for the 48 single family
homes.
Pate: Approximately 3% existing canopy is on this property. 2.2% is proposed
to remain. Therefore, mitigation will be required. The developer has done
a better job than when they initially submitted. The detention pond was
originally up around where Lot 31 is at the entrance, which would have
caused the removal of all of those trees. It has been moved south. The
areas with the best tree canopy out here are also the areas that have the
best logical configuration for entering this subdivision. One lines up with
an existing street and the other allows for a logical lot configuration here
on the west. We are going to do everything possible to protect those trees
at the entrance because it would become an amenity if they can be saved.
I did sort of include a caveat condition on this particular case, because it
will be difficult, especially with grading, that per city ordinance should
any trees shown to be preserved in part or in total need to be removed
once construction commences prior approval shall be obtained by the
Landscape Administrator by way of a tree preservation plan. If this
should occur additional mitigation will be required at the time of Final
Plat. I can't stress enough that prior approval needs to be obtained. The
last thing I want to see are those trees removed when I go out there to take
a look at that.
Shackelford: Thank you. Are there any other staff departmental comments regarding
this Preliminary Plat?
O'Neal:
On the lift station I'm trying to get together what our requirements are. I
will get you a copy of that before you go to construction. The other thing
is on your drainage, since you moved your detention pond it kind of
altered your drainage areas so you need to revise that and resubmit that.
Shackelford: Are there any other staff comments? Seeing none, I will allow you to
introduce yourself and add whatever you would like.
Moore: I'm Brian Moore with Engineering Services and we don't have any
problems with any of the comments as stated. The one thing that we did
not want to do was front our houses on Albright for the basis that it would
take away from our own subdivision. I understand the comment but I
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 31
think it would take away from pretty much these lots would not be in our
subdivision if we fronted them that way. That is really the only comment
that I have.
Shackelford:
Nooncaster:
Shackelford:
Moore:
Shackelford:
Moore:
Shackelford:
Thank you. At this point I will open it up to public comment if anybody
would like to address PPL 04-1380 please do so.
My name is John Nooncaster, I own the property to the west of this
proposed subdivision. I have no problem with the density or any of the
issues that we've covered earlier on some of the other issues. I did have a
question about backing the houses up to Albright. I understand there is a
concern with a collector street such as George Anderson, which you
wouldn't want to do that. We just recently went through the process of
annexing the property west of this. There is a portion which is annexed
and a portion which still requires the consent of Springdale to complete
the annexation. We had the Pembridge Subdivision Preliminary Plat
approval and we provided a Phase II that showed our lots with instead of
fronting Albright we had five lots to Albright on our Phase II I think that
is something that should be considered, maybe not fronting Albright but at
least having the side of the houses face Albright. A couple of other
questions I would like to have answered, I know part of this acreage at one
point in time was in the Springdale water service and I didn't know if that
had been changed to Fayetteville water service. I also had questions about
the sewer capacity for the lift station on Crossover. Also, during the
annexation of my property there was some concern by the Chairman about
improvements to Albright. I was just curious if there were any off site
improvements required from this development for Albright. Thank you.
Let's start with the technical questions regarding water and sewer
capacity.
This is now in the Fayetteville Water Service boundary area.
Have you seen any sort of documentation regarding the sewer capacity of
the lift station on Hwy. 265?
I have actually had discussions with Matt Casey on the sewer lift station.
That lift station will have to be upgraded. That is really something that we
take care of during the plans portion. It is my understanding that Matt is
trying to work something out with Mr. Nooncaster in partnering with this
development and Mr. Nooncaster in trying to make those necessary
improvements. We are amenable to that and have no problem with that.
The final question is regarding Albright. The question of fronting or
siding houses to Albright. Do you have any comments regarding that?
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 32
Moore:
Other than, you've got four homes fronting Albright on the north side of
the road. If you front all of these you are going to have four houses
looking at the back towards the subdivision. If you do it the other way
you are going to have eight houses looking at the backs of homes. We feel
like it really takes away from our subdivision and really don't want to do
that.
Ostner: I really think that this lends itself to a larger issue. I think the backs of
these buildings facing a street, we are not talking about turning around
buildings, we are talking about rearranging the entire subdivision.
Building a street where a house backs up to a street is counter productive.
We are creating extra streets in our town. There is already street frontage
and it is being bypassed to build new frontage. We have got a limited
amount of frontage in this town and to turn our backs on it is not good
planning. Streets need houses to face them. I have said this for a long
time but our rules, once again, don't really fit the issue. I think it is as
much a problem with perception as anything else. It has been built this
way for a long time. We see it, owners and developers see it and we kind
of get used to it but it makes traffic go faster when houses don't face the
street, you ignore speed limits. It promotes dangerous driving habits that
we all fall into. I'm not saying dangerous drivers, I'm just saying regular
people. I am not in favor of backing houses to these streets again.
Moore: My comment to that will be Albright will eventually be a collector. It
might not be that on the Master Street Plan but it will eventually be that no
matter if you front streets on that or not. It goes from Hwy. 265 to George
Anderson Road and will be a cutoff. Therefore, you are going to have it
function that way no matter what you do. That being said about the
design, there is no way that I can design this any other way. I have 660'.
This is not an extension of Copper Creek. This is a different developer, a
different deal. I have got 660'. When you do the math you cannot front
that street. My client would be thrilled if I got ten extra lots but I don't
have enough room to do it. If I had another 135' or 140' I would be able
to do that and any developer would be thrilled if you could get ten more
lots for them. I will remember that on my next one I bring here and
maybe I will be able to get those lots.
Clark:
Moore:
Clark:
Pate:
In the spirit of compromise what about siding the houses?
What do you mean siding the houses?
Where the sides face both streets, creative driveways.
I understand where this conversation stems from. Unfortunately, we don't
have much purview as far as what's in the ordinance. Our ordinance
doesn't really address that.
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 33
Moore: I seriously will remember that. When you are designing a subdivision like
this a lot of times if you have more than 660' you will be able to do that.
Every developer would be glad to do that.
Pate:
We have looked at situations where it is possible. The last subdivision we
saw, Cross Keys II, we looked at potential for an alley way back there and
we can recommend those. Again, we don't have a way to require those of
the developer, even through covenants because we don't enforce those
covenants, about how the streets face. Unless this is increasing or
compounding a dangerous traffic situation by locating a street as it is that
is really what our ordinances tell us we have to do currently.
Ostner: I was talking about here are two rows, if this street were here that faces a
street and that faces a street. Then you have these two and instead of the
street being there, these are already facing a street. If this street were there
if the pattern continued it would all work.
Moore: Right, if you had more land.
Ostner: If these weren't already the backs. You all were dealt a poor hand and you
are making the best of it. I'm just suggesting it is not about the land, it is
about a poor pattern locking you in. I understand this is how it has to be.
Shackelford: I would add that I do live in an adjoining neighborhood to this proposed
development and Albright Road is already a cut through. I would not
personally want to have a house that my driveway came out onto Albright
Road. I think it is much safer coming into a neighborhood street and
pulling out on that road. With that and the somewhat constraints that you
have with the lot sizes in this area I don't know that there is going to be a
better design than what has been designed here based on the
configurations of this property and how it relates to the existing
neighborhood.
Ostner: I would really like to see the City Council address this issue. We are
backing houses to the street and it is the way that the system works. The
Council talks about that they don't like it and yet, if they don't create a
rule to make it happen then it is going to keep happening.
Clark: So what is the situation with Albright? I think Mr. Nooncaster asked that
question. Has Albright been improved? I know we have talked about it.
Pate: The off site street improvements required for this developer is to improve
all of the frontage there along George Anderson and the 1300 feet along
Albright directly adjacent to this property. As far as other improvements
off of this map no, there are none recommended at this time. I would just
Subdivision Committee
December 3, 2004
Page 34
mention George Anderson Road south of this is being improved as we
speak. If you drive out there with the Planning Commission tour we can
see how much of that is being constructed right now. Curb and gutter is
being poured and asphalt is going in.
Clark: This will go to the full Planning Commission and will be seen. In that
spirit, I will move that we forward PPL 04-1308 with stated conditions
including that we find connectivity appropriate and with the
recommendations from staff on street improvements and the rest of the 15
conditions.
Ostner: I will second.
Shackelford: I will concur. We will see you guys at the Planning Commission. Is there
anything else that we need to address?
Announcements
Shackelford: We are adjourned.