HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-07-14 - MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
A regular meeting of the Subdivision Committee was held on July 14, 2005 at 5:30 p.m.
in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain, Fayetteville,
Arkansas.
ITEMS CONSIDERED
LSP 05-1594: Lot Split (KLINGER/BANK OF
THE OZARKS, 372)
LSD 05-1508: Large Scale Development
(BANK OF THE OZARKS, 372)
LSP 05-1598: Lot Split (VANTAGE SQUARE,
175)
FPL 05-1575: Final Plat (BRIDGEDALE, 569)
FPL 05-1548: Final Plat (PIPERS GLEN S/D,
374)
LSD 04-1295: Large Scale Development (ST.
JAMES BAPTIST CHURCH, 524):
LSD 05-1588: Large Scale Development
(PIEDMONT PLACE APARTMENTS, 366):
LSD 05-1593: Large Scale Development
(NELSON'S CROSSING, 174)
PPL 05-1429: Preliminary Plat (THE
HAMPTONS, 608)
R-PZD 05-1599: Planned Zoning District
(ZION GARDENS, 137)
FPL BRIDGEDALE
ACTION TAKEN
MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT
Candy Clark
Jill Anthes
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 2
Christian Vaught
Sean Trumbo
Nancy Allen
Loren Shackelford
Christine Myres
James Graves
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Renee Thomas
Jeremy Pate
Brent O'Neal
Kit Williams
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July 14, 2005
Page 3
Tape missing the beginning.
Chair:
Chair:
Staff
The motion carries.
The subject property contains 3.6 acres. It's located east of crossover and
near the Walmart Neighborhood Market Shopping Center. The property is
a very long piece of property with a quite a bit of frontage on Crossover
Road. The applicant has submitted a request to subdivide the piece of
property into 1.09 and 2.51 acres in order to. The next item on the agenda
is a large scale development with a 1.09 acre piece of property. So in
order to process that project on the 1.09 acres the applicant was required to
submit this lot split. They will be dedicating right of way for a total 59.5
feet of right of way where the existing right of way does not meet the
Master Street plan requirements. It's a little bit more than the 55 feet
requirement but if you take a look at the survey, the right of way line is a
bit greater than normal and it will just even things up on that property line
to dedicate 4.5 extra additional feet. Staff is recommending approval of
this lot split at this level with a total of seven conditions of approval
including dedication of right of way. We've also made a note hearing
condition two that access and location of curb cuts for the adjacent and
principle arterial streets shall be evaluated at the time of development of
proposed lots. We will be looking at the access onto the smaller tract with
this next item but future development of the tract to the north will need to
be reviewed for access. Additionally they are proposing to dedicate a
twenty-five foot ingress egress easement as well as utility easements at
this time for development of the property and there are four plat revisions.
But besides that we are recommending approval at this level.
Chair: Ok. We have the applicant here. Would you introduce yourself, tell us
about your
Applicant I'm Jerry Kelso. I'm with Kraft and associates representing the owner.
Basically I think Suzanne has pretty much gone over all the items on this.
It's one piece of property we're dividing into two there on Crossover
Road.
Name?: Are you in agreement with the conditions of this?
Applicant: Yes.
Name? You want to ask Brad if he has a comment?
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July 14, 2005
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Brad: I have no comment.
Name?: Ok.
Chair: Are there any comments from the public on lot split 05-1594? Seeing
none, we'll bring it back to the commission and let the commissioners
discuss it. Commissioners?
Name? Sounds pretty straightforward to me. If Staff approves it, I don't have any
problem.
Name? I'll go and propose that we approve lot split 05-1594.
Name? Second.
Chair: ??? that a formal motion?
Name? Yes I'll make a motion that we approve and we're approving it at this
level. Lot split 05-1594.
Name? I'll second.
Chair: And I'll concur. Moving to the related second item on the agenda, Large
Scale Development 05-1508 Bank of the Ozarks. If we could have the
staff report on that one.
Staff:
Certainly. Again this proposal is for the 1.09 acre tract which was
approved. The surrounding properties include, the majority is commercial
property to the south and west with vacant property zoned Cl to the north
and residential property to the east. That property is somewhat buffered
from this development with a quite a deal, large flood plane and associated
?? area along that area. We have received comments from adjoining
property owners, two adjoining property owners from ?? Shopping Center
as well as Mr. Bocks who owns residential property to the east, thank you
and no, they have no objections to this. The request is to construct a bank
of approximately 5,175 square feet with 26 total parking spaces. The
street ?? that are requested, or are proposed are as follows. Staff has
worked with the applicant to coordinate the alignment of the existing
driveway along the south portion of that property. It currently accesses
property to the south and will be realigned with this development so that is
directly across from Citizens Drive. In doing so we will be, staff will be
providing screened dumpster trash enclosure area for, not only their
dumpster enclosures but the existing ones to the south which is currently
not screened. Staff finds that that will be a great improvement to the area,
especially with the realignment of that drive. Staff is recommending
approval of this large scale development at this time with a total of 18
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July 14, 2005
Page 5
conditions of approval which include planning commission determination
commercial design standards. We have elevation boards here and I
believe you have some in your packet as well as a material sample board
that we can pass along if you care. And staff finds that these elevations
presented do comply with commercial design standards. Of course the
existing driveway to the south of the property will need to be realigned
with the proposed development and the lot split filed prior to issuance of
any building permits so that we can create the 1.09 acre tract before we
issue a building permit on it. The proposed location, elevation of the free
standing sign as submitted in your packet does not comply with standards,
or sign ordinance but we will ensure that at the time of they submit
application for sign permit that that sign will comply with all of our
standards. There are several requested revisions which have not been
addressed from technical plat including slight modifications to zoning
districts on the plat, the addition of one additional 88th space and
confirming that there is five foot green space area to the north of the
property between the parking and the north property line. But besides
that, staff is recommending approval of this large scale development at
this stage.
Chair: Are there any comments from engineering on this project?
Name? Ah, yes the only comment I have is in relation to the screened dumpster
area just to remind them that that cannot be a structure such as a concrete
wall. It needs to be a fenced type structure.
Name? And I think that's what we presented to
Name? We've got the applicant here if you would, you don't have to introduce
yourself again, if you could tell us about the project.
Applicant: Ok. Obviously this is a bank building. There's been a definite
cooperation with the property owners to the south to align the drive and
get some shared access with a dumpster. So all that's been worked out.
Other than that, we concur with all the requirements, conditions of
approval. I will take any questions that you might have.
Chair: Do we have any public comment on Large Scale Development 05-1508?
Seeing none I'll bring it back to the commissioners.
Name? Mr. Chair. I have a question of the applicant. Where on this survey plat
to we have the trash dumpsters that we're talking about? I don't see
Applicant: They're right there by your thumb. At the end of the driveway.
Name? Back here? I don't see them.
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July 14, 2005
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Applicant: They're over here.
Name? Oh. Ok.
Applicant: ?? Take care of the ... Property.
Name? Will they be shielded from the street?
Applicant: Yes. There's a fence in there presented in your elevations.
Discussion with several voices.
Name? I don't think that we've, we've only got one side of the building on that.
Name? Here they are. Is that it?
Name No.
Name? Did you...
Name: Unfortunately our architects only brought you six copies...
Name? Ok. Sorry I haven't seen
Name? We got them over there at eight o'clock, I guess they didn't get to you.
I'm sorry. What we're proposing is a six foot wooden fence with one by
fours at the top to kind of dress it up a little bit and we'd, to get to the
dumpsters.
Name? This brings them out toward the road ..
Name? Right.
Name? Ok.
Name? Well, and some of the questions I had about materials for the building ???
I see it's, Oh you do have a materials board, great.
Name? You guys haven't seen this either.
Name? That's a ?? metal roof
Name? And the gutter downspouts and window frames.
Name? And then we have band of concrete that runs around ...
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July 14, 2005
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Name?
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Staff:
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the top like a freize?
No ma'am.
No.
It's actually right here. This band here and then these little bands.
Above the window.
There and above the windows.
Ok.
And then the base is actually stone but I couldn't get that to stay on the
board.
1 know.
You understand. But it's a natural stone that comes from Hackett,
Arkansas. It kind of gives it a base and then a middle and the top.
Like good classical architecture.
I have a question for staff. We have two curb cuts, one is proposed to be
shared access and then the north one is not shared. Is there going to be
any access into the northern lot? This we're leaving here?
The southern access, you're correct, it's not shared but they are providing
a stub out with cross access to the north so that any development to the
north could tie in and utilize this drive right here.
Ok. I didn't see that. Thank you.
I have a question for staff. The distance between these two curb cuts. I
don't know what it is. Is it sufficient?
Itis sufficient. The requirement between curb cuts on a collector I believe
is forty feet and this is not in the Design Overlay district so they don't
have to meet a 200 foot distance.
So this is probably 170 feet approximately.
And I was going to put you guys on the spot. I know you hadn't seen it
any earlier than we did. But we've got a finding that we've got to make
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
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on commercial design standards and I don't think that anybody had seen
that particular side of the building before on the items that we had before
on the packet and I wanted to get staff's recommendation on that
particular rendering.
Name? Well, do you have, that board, you've had that for several weeks.
Name? Right.
Name? It's just a black and white version of the color, the colors are the same all
the way around. We don't change materials on the back to save money or
anything. It will look the same all the way around.
Name? Ok. I think what we had before was the front doorway and this one is the
back side.
Name? And I'm sorry I was late getting the actual plat elevation
Name? No that's fine.
Name? plat elevation but I dropped the six copies as requested this morning.
Name? The applicant is providing different materials, is separating or breaking up
the building facade both with m?? elements as well as different materials
vertically and we feel that it would meet the commercial design standards
based on this new presented elevation.
Name? I think it's very nicely detailed.
Name? Yes.
Name? And ?? the color palette.
Chair: Do either of you have any other questions?
Name? Yea I did. I know there's a lot of wetland and low area in the back. Is
there any kind of screening, it looks like there's a, is that just a curb or is
that a wall?
Applicant: That's just a curb. ?? natural elements or trees and things like that that
we're leaving undisturbed so natural screening is better than anything I
know of.
Name? Absolutely.
Name? Is staff ok with the additional copies that were brought? The 26 copies?
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July 14, 2005
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Staff: Yes we are.
Name? Ok. And you all agree to the conditions of approval?
Applicant: Yes.
Name? I think the building is a beautiful building and it certainly meets the design
standards. I agree with staff. With that. Are we forwarding this?
Name? We are recommending approval at this time. But if you feel like there are
some unresolved issues or anything that you'd like the planning
commission to take a look at as well, you're welcome to forward it.
Name? I don't see any do you?
Name? I don't. I'm happy to approve it at this time.
Name? I'll make a motion for approval of Large Scale Development 05-1508 with
the finding that the elevations comply with design standards. We have
agreement with the other conditions.
Name? I'll second.
Name? And I'll concur.
Name? Thank you. I appreciate it. Have a nice day.
Name? The next item on the agenda is lot split 05-1598 and it's ?? square. If we
could have the staff report on this item.
Staff:
This project is located at Parkview Drive north of Joyce Boulevard. The
property is zoned residential office and contains approximately three and a
half acres. And applicant requests approval of a lot split to divide the
property into four tracts of .98, .98, .89 and .64 acres respectively. Public
water and sewer are available to each proposed lot and adequate right of
way exists from Parkview Drive, a local street and a private drive as well.
The owner of the private drive would provide a twenty foot wide access
easement along the frontages of three of these lots, 4H, 41, 4J to the
nearest right of way. The surrounding land uses are multi -family
residential and office. And its surrounding zoning is RMF24 and
residential office. Staff is recommending approval of Lot Split 05-1598
by the subdivision committee with the following conditions. Condition
number one is including some minor modifications to the plat that are
needed prior to ?? . Condition number two states that due to the lack of
frontage for lots 4H, 4I, 4J required for residential uses and RO zoning
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July 14, 2005
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district, residential units shall not be permitted on these lots with the filing
of this plat. Condition number three cross access between the lots shall be
evaluated and likely required at the time of development and condition
number four, the property owner of the private access drive to the east of
lots 4H, 4I, 4J shall provide a minimum twenty foot wide access easement
along the lot providing access to the nearest right of way. And then
condition number five is the standard condition of approval.
Chair: Do we have any other comments from staff or engineering?
Name? Yes, sir, I'd like to just real quickly, kind of clarify condition number two,
if I could, residential uses. In our zoning code under zoning district RO-
residential/office it allows combination of a couple of uses; single family,
two family, as well as office type spaces, professional office and studio
type spaces. We do have a lot width minimums however for residential
uses that have to front onto a public street. The lots that are in question
don't actually front onto a public street. It's essentially a drive -way
parking area for the adjacent multifamily residential development. So that
condition essentially reflects our code requirements to not allow a single
family or two family residential units on those lots. So essentially by
filing this lot split, they give up the right to allow those types of residential
uses on this property. We did, we do require access to those and that's the
purpose of the access easement.
Name? Thank you ?? Any comments from engineering?
Name? Yes just that at time of building permits for these lots we will have to
confirm that each lot has legal access to one or two.
Name? Are there any comments from the public on Lot Split 05-1598 and ??
Seeing none I'll bring it back to the commissioners. Commissioners.
Name? Question for staff on number four. ?? property owner of the property to
the east shall provide, ask them for an easement. Have we done that? Has
that been done?
Name? We're working on that. Mr. Lindsey owns that and he's doing a lot split
so it's just a matter...
Name? It's a pretty good chance he'll approve that
Name? Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a different owner.
Name? And Jeremy, the Park Oaks Drive is the non -right of way street that you
were talking about. That those three lots face.
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July 14, 2005
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Name?
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Staff:
That's correct. If you go out there, it looks like a public street. It's curb
and guttered. But we'll get the access easement for that.
I don't see any reason to discuss this to death. I don't have any problems
with it. I think it's really straightforward and the applicant is accepting
our conditions of approval so I would like to move for approval at this
level of Lot Split 05-1598.
With conditions?
With all conditions as stated.
I second.
And I concur.
Thank you.
Thanks.
The next item on the agenda is final plat 05-1575 Ridgedale. If the
applicant would come up and we'll have the staff report. The applicant
being...
Mr. Melville.
Is anyone here for this item 05-1575? We'll move on to the end of the
agenda. This will be item number eleven now. Moving on to the next
item on the agenda, final plat 05-1548 Pipers Glen. If the applicant would
come up and we'll have the staff report on that one.
This project is located at ?? Center Road east of ?? Drive. The property is
in a planning area and contains approximately ten and a half acres. To get
more detailed the property is located east of Burlington Park, subdivision
south of ?? road and it's contiguous to the city limits on the west and
surrounded by an unincorporated area to the north, south and east. The
east of the Fox Hunter Estates subdivision is to the north and south of the
properties residential and agricultural in nature. The project would
subdivide about ten and half acres into nine single family lots with each
lot approximately one acre in size. Access to eight lots is gained from the
existing streets to about ?? drive. This ?? with the Burlington Park
Subdivision to the west and lot number nine, approximately two acre lot
with existing barn, shed and a farm presently containing ?? feet of
frontage on Fox Hunter Lane. Water lines have been extended to several
developments and private septic ?? will be utilized by each lot. Fifty feet
of ?? Drive would be dedicated, right of way would be dedicated on to the
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July 14, 2005
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Chair:
Name?
subject property and a minimum of thirty five feet of center line of Fox
Hunter Road would also be dedicated. Street improvements required for
this project involve extending ?? Drive from where it was subbed out with
the ?? Park Subdivision into the project site. And as background, the
preliminary plat for this subdivision was approved on August 23, 2004
with conditions and staff recommends approval of this project with the
following conditions. Condition number one involves making revisions to
the plat, relatively minor issues. Condition number two requires the
existing commercial enterprise on lot one to be removed and this was a
requirement included in the ?? assurances recorded in October of 2004 and
we just need proof of that being completed by the, before signing the final
plat. Condition number three is a final inspection of the required
improvements showing ?? prior to sign of the final plat. Condition
number four is requiring that subject permits be issued. The remaining
conditions are standard conditions of approval.
Ok. Are there any other comments from other members of staff or from
engineering?
Just real quickly. You may remember this was quite controversial for the
size of the project that it was. This preliminary plat was appealed to the
City Council, a bill of assurance was offered by the owner of the property.
We do have a copy of that filed bill of assurance in our files but did not
include it for you. But essentially it includes the no further resubdivision
of the lots that are under two acres, no access easements would be
provided to other properties to allow access to adjoining property, no
commercial enterprises shall ever be utilized on the property. Only single
family residences will be allowed on this property. No mobile homes or
temporary structures. There's a minimum square foot area of 3000 square
feet for all homes on the lots and the existing commercial structure as
mentioned shall be removed and we'll verify that prior to signing the plat.
Chair: Are there any comments from engineering?
Name? Yes. Just that we confirm the construction of the sidewalk which extends
into Barrington Park. We also need ?? and construction cost estimates
prior to signing the plat.
Chair: Thank you. Would the applicant introduce themselves and you can make
any comments about the project that you would like.
Applicant: Good morning. My name is Justin Jorgenson and ?? have basically
covered everything. The two issues I can really talk about are the subject
system data that should be wrapped up here pretty soon we'll get that to
you and the sidewalk, we're working on those... and that's the...
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
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Name?
Applicant:
Name?
Applicant:
Chair:
Name?
Chair:
Name?
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Chair:
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Chair:
Name?
So you're going to complete these...
Yes Ma'am.
To tie into what's there from Barrington.
They had to redo this driveway when they did this. They've done that and
they're just going to pour the rest of the sidewalk there.
Are there any comments on Final Plat 05-1548 Pipers Glen? Seeing none,
I'll bring it back to the commissioners.
I know there was a lot of public comment about this but I think the bill of
assurances seems to be very thorough and from what I remember, covered
most of the concerns I was aware of in that subdivision.
Are there any questions for staff, any changes of note. It doesn't look like
it from the conditions from the preliminary plan and what we're seeing on
the final plat.
Shawn?
I have one question about the septic system. Is it, this is obviously going
to be put into the City of Fayetteville sometime. Will the septic system be
able to hook up to city sewer at that time?
These are not proposed to be a decentralized system. These are individual
septic systems.
Ok.
So their on each lot.
Alright. Thank you.
Any more comments? Motions?
Are we approving at this level?
That's the staff's recommendation.
Ok. In the absence of public comment and with the presence of the bill of
assurance and the concurrence with the conditions of approval I'd like to
move that we approve Final Plat 05-1548 for Piper's Glen subdivision
with all the conditions of approval as stated.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 14
Name? I second,
Name? And I concur.
Name? Thank you.
Chair: The next item on the agenda is Large Scale development 04-1295 St.
James Baptist Church. Do we have the applicant here?
Name? Chair, I see the applicant. I can grab him if you'd like.
Chair: I see him out in the hall. You can come on up with your project and we'll
have the staff report.
Applicant: Sorry to keep you waiting.
Name? That's ok. We were a little quicker than we told him.
Staff: This property is located at the southeast corner of Rock and Willow Street.
It also fronts onto Walker. The property is currently zoned RMF24, multi-
family, 24 units per acre and contains approximately 5.20 acres. The St.
James Missionary Baptist Church has submitted a conditional use request
and large scale development plans for construction of a 26,500 square foot
church on the subject property. It is ?? four under which a church is
located requires a conditional use in any residential zoning district. The
conditional use will be heard at the full planning commission as a separate
item to this large scale development request. Staff has been meeting with
the applicant and their representatives since early in this year to bring
forward a project that would meet the needs of the church and benefit the
community while also meet the city ordinances. The property was
originally platted as part of Hills addition in 1905 with many small
residential lots but he did not develop it in that manner. Along with the
lots were a system of platted alleys and a forty foot wide street, southern
Avenue that also did not develop. These rights of way were formally
vacated by the city council on a separate request May 17, 2005. Staff did
recommend approval of those vacation requests. And as I mentioned the
property is located south of Rock Street, east of Willow and north of
Walker Road. The only street with any sort of improvements in this area
is Willow Street. I believe the planning commission and council at least
did visit this site on a couple of occastions. Rock Street is also very steep,
does not have curb, gutter or sidewalks in that particular location. Walker
Road is passable with one vehicle in many of the locations on that street
that actually goes to the east of this property and adjoins other properties.
It only functions currently to serves single family homes in this area. The
site contains no wetlands or flood plain but does contain a significant
slope exceeding 20 percent in several locations and it does have a 92
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 15
percent tree canopy existing currently. The site is undeveloped with some
existing disturbed areas and old driveways where, I believe, probably
older homes used to be located along Willow Street. This proposal is to
develop a 26,500 square foot church on the property with 199 parking
spaces to serve parishioners. The existing church is also located within
this neighborhood. It has grown beyond the capacity at the original
church in which they are located and maintain, thus the request for this
proposal. The proposal is to construct a single building on one elevation
with a couple of different parking paths on other elevations utilizing a
series of retaining walls to mitigate these slopes which is quite severe in
some places on this property. Access is proposed from all three
surrounding streets. There are no improvements currently proposed on
Walker other than the driveway entrance. Other street improvements are
proposed along the street frontages. A traffic study has not been
performed by the applicant though our trip generation software generally
indicates that the 24 hours ?? volume for a church of this size would
produce approximately 989 vehicle trips on a given Sunday. The
surrounding land use and zoning, almost all the surrounding land use and
zoning is RMF24. Most of which however is developed as single family
homes either combined lots or small lots. To the north is the exception
which is of course the housing authority's housing project. The current
zoning would allow for multi -family development up to 24 units per acres
for a maximum of 124 units and of course, as I mentioned, this request
also has a conditional use request tied to that. The water and sewage
proposed to be extended to serve this development. A minimum of 25 feet
from center line is required along all the adjacent streets to the property
for dedication. Planning staff have received a few public comments by
way of phone calls regarding this project primarily inquiring as to how
large the church was going to be and how much traffic was involved. At
this time staff is unable, is also unable to confirm that public notification
was sent. We simply don't have copies of those notices, Steve. We just
request proof of public notifications that was notified for this meeting. If
that ?? we would have to come back by bylaws to this meeting. So I just
want to make sure that we got that. I couldn't locate that in the file. Staff
is recommending denial of this large scale development 05-1295. We
have several concerns about the project, many of the concerns have to do
with the increase in traffic and the site development plans presented on the
property. It's very difficult, number one for staff to segregate the large
scale development and the conditional use. Without the conditional use
request for this property we cannot even review this as a large scale
development for a development of this type. So we've sort of done a look
combined recommendation in here leading to the conditional use for
compatibility as well. The specific findings on the large scale
development, there are at least a couple. Traffic concerns in creating a
dangerous traffic conditions without offsite improvements are a concern. I
think some of those concerns could potentially be addressed with a traffic
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 16
study evaluating the existing conditions and proposing offsite street
improvements. But due to concerns of the compatibility on the
conditional use, staff is recommending that both of these items be
forwarded on to the full planning commission for review without
necessarily recommending a full blown traffic study at this time. If the
use is something the planning commission is comfortable with and then
there are questions about the offsite street improvements, maybe at that
time we could look at a traffic study. I simply think that requiring a five
thousand dollar traffic study and then we find the use incompatible. That
would be just a waste of time and money for the applicants. And we
would recommend that this be forwarded on to the full planning
commission to review both the conditional use and the large scale
development. And again, if the planning commission found that the
conditional use was appropriate and this site plan was appropriate in that
area, we could then look at conditions, ?? conditions on the project so that
it would not create that dangerous traffic condition. With regard to some
of the other comments in your packet. We've got, of course with 200
without 200 parking spaces proposed, heavy peak periods of use, we did
some traffic generation numbers with our software, the, as I mentioned
almost 1000 trips in a 24 hour period on a Sunday would be noted.
Approximately 300 it looks like, 250 to 300 average weekday trips from
the property. Again that's assuming very few variables. There are a lot of
other variables to put in that, the natural traffic in here would analyze, but
we did put those numbers in there for you. The associated conditional use
request for the project is further of concern. And of course, as I mentioned
is tied directly to the large scale development. Churches are often found
compatible with residential uses. I don't think there's any questions about
that. Staff often recommends that churches be located appropriately in
residential neighborhoods. They serve the community typically, they
fulfill the, they provide a safe haven and fulfill a service to the community
that oftentimes other business cannot. However, the inherent challenges
of this site, with the topography, the tree preservation required, the access,
the substandard streets that access this property and combined with the
height, peak traffic volumes and the high intensity in a very quiet
neighborhood surrounding this project do not represent the typical
components of compatibility that we see in a conditional use. We did
recommend some options that might aid in creating a more compatible
development. We have discussed some of these options with the applicant
and their representatives on at least a few occasions with staff and
administration. Options... would aid in creating a more compatible
development would include bringing the building closer to the street to
address the streetscape, utilizing more traditional open design principles
that this neighborhood really has developed in this manner with the
exception of the HUD housing to the north. The existing church is
actually right up against the street and that's probably within the right of
way if not close. The existing church that this would be moving from and
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 17
a lot of these developments in this area are do address the street in this
manger. Breaking the finish floor of the building into different elevations
to alleviate the, alleviate the hillside grading, especially the mass grading
on the hillside. Again there's about 20 feet of retaining, I believe it is
broken into two walls, two ten foot walls now as opposed to the original
proposal for a 20 foot retaining wall on the south side, is that right?
Applicant: East.
Staff: East side. Breaking the finished floor that, the best place I can probably
liken to that that has any sort of relationship is St. Joseph's, the old school
there and church. It's broken into several buildings that can be placed at
different elevations with associated parking to provide functions for
different areas. That would again, aid in preserving a lot of the high
priority tree canopy, the significant trees which currently aren't proposed
to be saved. Other things, providing on street parking to reduce the
number of parking spaces required on the actual property thereby
hopefully reducing the grading as well. Evaluating proposing offsite street
improvements and again those would hopefully reduce the potential for
future traffic accidents, congestion and conflicts. Again the public
comment that we received, really had to do with how much traffic would
be generated in this area and would there be parking on the street and
blocking on the streets. And so again those are things to consider. Several
of the goals of the general plan 2020 include things I have just mentioned
as well as manage nonresidential development within an adjoining
residential neighborhood just to minimize nuisances, minimize through
traffic on minor residential streets and identify areas of environmental
concern, protect and preserve environmental resources. With regard to the
tree preservation plan and evaluation that for compliance with our city
ordinances, it's obvious that the intent is to get to the 20 percent
requirement the way it's proposed currently though, it doesn't quite meet
that. It's about 17 percent when you look at the actual easements that are
platted through, shown to be proposed through some of the high priority
trees. Additionally our ordinance states specifically that high and
significant trees take priority over lower priority canopy. All of the trees
proposed, most of the trees proposed on this site are the lower priority
canopy, some of the smaller trees. None of the significant trees, 24 to 36
inches in diameter are proposed to be preserved with this plan. That's
another concern staff has and we've voiced that with Mr. Clark on a
couple different occasions and tried to work through some of those issues.
At this time staff is recommending that both the conditional use and the
large scale development be forwarded to the full planning commission for
review and comment and with that I will be happy to answer any
questions.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 18
Chair: Are there any comments from engineering? Other than what Jeremy just
went through.
Name? Some minor comments on the location of services. ?? elevations on the
retaining wall are a little bit difficult to read. Clarification on the sewer
whether it's public or private, where that point ends. The other comments
I would reserve until ?? planning staff.
Chair:
Are there any comments from the public on this item? If you would step
forward and give us your name and your address and give us your
comments please.
Feinstein: May name is Andy Feinstein. I live at 515 East Rock. I'm the neighbor
immediately to the east of this project. We share about 400 feet of
common line. We're not opposed to the church being a new neighbor.
We do have concerns about the intense impact this will have on the
landscape there. We're looking at a severe drop off right next to our
property. We have the separating alleyway, thank God that will remain as
a buffer. But we're looking at two ten foot walls, five feet behind a barn
that we have currently. We're faced with a dilemma here. We'd much
rather see a church in this location than one hundred and some units of
multifamily housing. We're sort of, a case of the lesser of two evils. We
don't oppose this directly as a large scale in this area. We do have some
strong concerns about what we've seen on the plans lately. And I think I
can address them with a very short list I'd be willing to share with you all.
Some time ago we anticipated we would not be able to control what next
to us, we planted a row of Virginia pines along our common line. That
has grown into a nice visual buffer at this point. We would like to see that
trend continued on this project by placing am evergreen screen buffer
along our common line at the top of these walls. We assume that there
would be an opaque screen fence for security and safety reasons. It would
be nice if that was done tastefully, to blend in with a vegetative buffer
along that area. And I think the site plan could benefit from increased
landscape planning fronting Rock street as well to soften the impact of,
probably meeting the city minimum. We would ask that it goes beyond
the minimum requirements and really nice and appropriate landscaping
along Rock Street frontage as well. We have concerns about site lighting.
We weren't real clear what the intention was there. But we wondered if
they would entertain the idea of a lighting system that is placed on a
timing system that somehow was integrated with a security system as well
so that these lights are off, let's say 45 minutes to an hour after the final
evening service. We are very concerned about light pollution in this
neighborhood. We are blessed not to have big mercury lights at this point.
We'd like to know that when the church is not in use that the lights can go
off. I have concerns about the dumpster location. It's about as close to
my house as they could have gotten it and it looks like it would be a
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 19
challenge for the truck driver to back up out of there. We're suggesting at
the end of this ?? that's in front of the building. If we could just tuck it in
right here. The truck could come in, pick it up and get back out. A much
more ?? I don't know where your kitchen's going to be if that creates a
problem with the facility to have that there as opposed to here. It's just
something I hope can be looked at. I really don't look forward to hearing
the pickup early in the morning clanging around there. I don't know what
the intent for the location for the air conditioner compressor units are. I
don't know if they're going to be roof mounted or ground mounted. I
wondered if you could look also at that southwest corner to place those a/c
units. And I wondered also if we could eliminate the drive onto Rock
street. This is a traffic area. It is extremely steep. I don't know if the
plans indicate it. But the parking for the housing project is 90 degrees to
the street. There are people backing onto Rock Street to leave their
parking spots. This was probably a project approved prior to the
requirements that parking not be ?? onto the street. It's an existing
condition that has to be dealt with. I think one way to mitigate that would
be to eliminate drive onto Rock Street. Those are my concerns.
Chair: Thank you. Sir, if you would state your name and your address.
Conhagen: Good morning. Thank you for my time, for your time. My name is
Jeremy Conhagen. I live at 545 East Rock Street which is beyond the
project, up the hill past Walker. However, this is a dead end street and
myself, the city ?? and everyone else the loops up there has two ways to
get home. One is Rock, the other is Walker. As has been stated, Walker
is for all practical purposes a one lane street. The projects do have signs
that say tow away zone, no parking on the street. This is routinely
violated which turns Rock into a one lane street. I call every time I see a
car and get it towed. Emergency vehicles, fire and ambulances have Rock
Street to use, period. It's a very steep street and my main concern is the
access to Rock Street. If we could, we would love to meet with the
applicant and their representatives. We haven't been approached. I would
love to get together with them before the planning commission meeting
and see if we could work these things out but it wasn't really my
responsibility to contact them. If I hadn't been contacted, through all of
the adjacent land owners have been contacted. But there are other people
affected by this, due to the nature of the one lane street. And we'd love to
get with them. If there were two entrances down on ??, which is a flat
street, the one on Rock Street could get eliminated. A little more setback
with the vegetative screen, an evergreen vegetative screen on Rock Street
to mitigate. Because, lets face it, we're giving up a city block of forest
and I too feel these would be compatible neighbors if we can get these
issues resolved. And the lighting as been stated. Downward focused
lighting rather than outward focused lighting and, of course in the past,
this isn't a commercial district. This isn't a strip mall. The lights stay on
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 20
Chair:
Staff:
Chair:
all night were originally designed to create security. But with the advance
of anti -intrusion detection and security systems, I don't feel that lights on
beyond ten, eleven p.m. whenever they shut down, are necessary. Other
measures can be taken and like I say, we'd like to get with the applicants
and their representatives and work these issues out as a neighborhood so
that we can welcome them into the neighborhood I think they could make
a good neighbor. But the way this is planned right now, Rock Street is
barely usable for emergency vehicles and one more entrance with another
couple hundred cars every day and a thousand cars on Sunday is going to
significantly jeopardize my ability to get access to emergency vehicles in
case they're needed. And as I said, we are by no means the only person on
the end of the street. So we'd like to recommend getting together with the
applicant and the rep. A number of good recommendations have already
been made by the city concerning significant trees. There are some trees
worth keeping there. Landscaping can change this. We'd love to have
them. Thank you.
Thank you sir. Are there other public comments about this project?
Seeing none I'll bring it back to the commissioners. Commissioners. I do
have a question for staff. A procedural question. Jeremy mentioned. you
mentioned in your report several times that you were recommending
forwarding it to the planning commission. We've also got in our packet a
recommending of a denial and then we've got a mention of this public
notification issue that might require it to be returned to the subdivision
committee so I need to straighten all that out, figure out what we would do
here today. What our options are today.
The written staff report essentially indicates staff's position for our
recommendation for the large scale development as a whole. However,
we do feel, because the conditional uses attached to this that this
subdivision committee should forward it on to the full Planning
Commission for their full review as opposed to making that decision
unanimously at this level. We do feel it warrants the full planning
commission's discussion. With regard to the notification. We typically
get copies or originals of the return receipts by certified mail and in
looking through the folders we have not been able to locate those and so I
just need to get with Mr. Clark. If they provided that, we'll continue to,
and if you forward, we'll continue for ?? planning commission. If they
did not notify as required by ordinances, they would be required to notify
in a timely manner and then return to this level again.
I would like to give the applicant an opportunity to address some of the
public comments that have been made and the staff comments as well as
this issue about notification.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 21
Applicant:
The issue of notification, I know that we sent out notifications on our
original submittal which was months ago. I believe we sent out
notifications on this one but we sent out notifications so many times that I
can't give you an absolute that we did. I'll go home, go back to the office
and verify that. If not, then we will return to you after we do proper
notification.
Name? I don't know, I know we've discussed this before.
Applicant:
Chair:
Applicant:
Yea. We discussed it at the vacation of the right of way and staff and I
have been discussing it for, I think you said early 2005, I think we first
started conversations in the middle of 2004. So it's been in process for
quite some time. It's a challenging site and I have advised my clients
from day one that there are a lot of issues with the site to develop. And
I'm, I know what you guys would like to see and I know what's easily
approvable and I know what's going to be difficult and I told them up
front this one was difficult.
Would you like to comment on some of the other issues, some of the
members of the public made or some of the staff made?
Well it's, where to start is the question. Comments from the neighbors.
Downward lighting is an ordinance. That's what we will do. I will talk
with the owners and see if they want to put, have the expense of the timer
system. It may be that they want to have a switch. I don't know but that
is something that is doable and most churches are looking to economize
the dollars spent and typically will not leave the lights burning all night
because they see it as a waste of money and an annoyance to the
neighbors. One of the things I know Jeremy was referring to is that the
existing church was down, he thought within the right of way. Actually, I
think that's the St. James Methodist Church. The St. James Baptist
Church actually has a parking lot between the building and the right of
way. So this one, the existing church does set back but that's kind of an
inconsequential notation. Access onto Rock Street. I think it's critical
that they maintain that. For one, fire access, fire department says the
drives cannot exceed 17 percent.
Name? Actually, Steve, they would like 10 percent for commercial type access so
that's one of my comments as well.
Applicant: And I believe all of our drives or at least the primary drive off of Rock
Street meets that standard. The drive off of Willow Street certainly does
not and the one off of Walker is steeper than that.
Name? Just a quick review looks like they are 19 and 20 percent respectively on
those two.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 22
Applicant: With Willow and the Walker Street. We've got numbers at hand. With
the screen fence, I suspect that's a requirement. We'll work with the
neighbors as far all the neighbors, the comments that Andy had, we'll
work with them. I don't know whether the dumpster, relocating to the
other side is something that's doable. It needs to be at the end closest to
the kitchen area so they don't have to walk the entire length to get to it.
Name? Again that also goes back to, you know, access of the steep slopes. That
should be coordinate with solid waste.
Applicant: Right. So that, this theory with where the church is and where the primary
drive is, maintains fairly flat levels and something that's doable for all
purposes.
Name? Once it's graded.
Applicant: Once it's graded. Trees. we've looked at. We've tried to split the church.
We've tried to do separate grades and maintain a single unit because one
of the things they were insistent on, they wanted the church to be in a
single building. They don't want to have to exit this building to go to the
fellowship hall. Sunday's apparently to them a meeting day where
everybody comes in, they cook, they spend a lot of time at the church,
they provide food for many of the people in the neighborhood, so it was
important to them that they maintain the single building. I've looked at
three or four or five different options trying to come up with something
that was closer to what the city's desires were and I have not been
successful or I have not been able to change anything that made a
difference in the amount of slope or the amount of grading that we did.
You know if we put it down here and brought it back up the hill, we still,
we ended up being ten or twelve feet deep here and then you've ?? and it
just didn't work and then access was difficult. I'm open to suggestions,
I'm open to other ideas. I don't want to say that this is the only choice we
have but this is the only thing that I've been able to come up with that was
even close to providing the parking and the square footage that the church
wanted. Issues of moving. The whole reason the church, they bought this
piece of property a few years ago from McElroys. They want to stay in
the neighborhood. This is where they've been. They've been in the
existing building and the church for years. They support the neighborhood
and some of the lower income families. I had encouraged them to look at
alternatives. The cost of site work is such that they could have afforded
another piece of property. They keep telling me that this is where they
want to be. My hands are tied. I've got to present it to you guys as my
clients instruct. We recognize the challenges. I'll answer questions.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 23
Name? This is a question for Jeremy. This came through as, first we saw it as a
vacation request for all the easements is that right?
Name? That's correct.
Name? That puts us in a, kind of a sticky situation. We could have aparlments
now. Could this have come through? This is just for my clarification.
Could this have come through as a ??
Name? Certainly.
Name? I wish we would have done that now but that's not here nor there. There
are significant challenges here and there's frankly too much for us to
tackle, I think as a committee. I would, the furthest I would go would be
in favor of forward it on to the planning commission, but it sounds like it
might even need to go back and meet with staff again and see what else
can be worked out. I'm not sure.
Name? I think the issue of the notification may bring it back to use. It might not
but it might if that wasn't...
Name? If that's the case it's unfortunate simply because I think we'll have much
discussion to continue, it will just be essentially a procedural item required
by ordinances. The applicant has definitely been talking with staff and
brought in a portion of the congregation, the pastor and we've met on a
couple of different occasions on this property. The, kind of the history
behind the vacation request, it's something we definitely wanted to see at
least resolved one way or the other. The church is spending money with
Mr. Clark, obviously as their representative. If there was no vacation
option, if that was the property, if the rights of way were not going to be
vacated at all, then the conditional use and large scale would have been a
moot point. Staff recommended that go forward. We recommended that,
not based on the development plans at all. Based on the specific findings.
Those rights of way had not been utilized for a hundred years and were not
going to be utilized whether this was a multifamily, a single family or
some other conditional use type of development. So we made those
recommendations entirely separate from this development plan. Of course
this now does allow for the applicant to at least present these plans in
accordance with city ordinances for setbacks and not have to build streets
internally.
Name? In turn, to boil this down. It looks to me like most of the staff's concerns
relate, although they're tied together, relate less to maybe how it's
designed, but rather relate to where it is and the fact that it's not
compatible with the neighborhood in staff's opinion and that it's, would
create a traffic situation that's untenable in that area so it has more to do, it
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 24
seems to me, and anybody on staff can correct me, but it seems like most
of staff's comments have to do with where this project is which is an
important factor to consider but also, I think affects whether this
committee should forward it or not. If it's a situation that it's engineering
and design issues, granted the slope is part of that, but engineering and
design issues that need to be further worked out, then it would seem to me
that it would be appropriate to keep it here for another go around and give
some time for Mr. Clark and the developer to try to, to try to adapt the
design to concerns and try to meet with the neighbors and so forth. But
it's a situation that can't be changed which is where it's located and the
fact that's it's slope and traffic, it seems appropriate to forward it and let
the Planning Commission and the City Council decide, is this what they
want here. Do they want this church here or does the church need to look
at other options.
Name? I would agree.
Name?
One thing related to the traffic. The church exists today, the church is
located caddy corner, across from this site. The church parks on Sundays
apparently, I haven't been there myself, but from what I understand, every
street within, probably a quarter mile 77 it has traffic on at least one side,
if not both sides. If there's room for two ?? traffic, that's where they park.
They simply have outgrown the facility that they have and that's why
we're trying to move it off. The traffic issue, the traffic is there whether
they're here or whether they're in their existing building. So to argue that
we shouldn't do this because of traffic constraints, beyond the immediate
frontage, the traffic is there either way. So, I'm not disagreeing that it
creates a tremendous amount of traffic, but it has and it does and it will
continue to regardless. At least you're adding more parking than is
existing at this point. We're getting the parking off the street. The
traffic's going to be there. We're proposing to widen the streets as
necessary. I think it would be appropriate to widen Walker down and then
from Huntsville Avenue is just a block or so to the south, so you can get
from Walker to Willow and then to Huntsville pretty quickly. Same thing
by going to the west, you get to Thompson, not Thompson, College. So
you know, it's not ideal.
Name? No.
Name? From what I'm hearing. It doesn't matter how you twist or tum the
building or change or modify the plans, that the concerns of staff
regarding traffic and slope and canopy are there.
Name? Correct.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 25
Chair:
Name?
Chair:
Staff:
Name?
Name?
Name?
Chair:
Name?
Chair:
Name?
Name?
Name?
And so it seems to me, I'm not going to make a motion because I'm
chairing today, but it seems to me it would be appropriate if unless there
are comments about curb cuts and things like that would require to stay
with Subdivision, it seems to me they ought to be forwarded and let the
Planning Commission and City Council decide is this what they want
there. Do they want this particular project there with whatever issues
might be attached to it.
Agreed. And with that I'll make a motion that we forward LSD 04-1295
to the Planning Commission.
And Jeremy do we need to make any kind of recommendation of whether
we're forwarding it with a recommendation of denial.
I seriously doubt that you've made up your minds on that. So again there
will be a staff recommendation. If there is, not to interrupt the motion but
if there is any more information that you would like from staff or from the
applicant please let us know.
I do think, and I know we're in the middle of a motion but I think that it
sounds like it's very important that you meet with some of the other
surround folks, possibly even the ones that may not be directly adjacent
because they are affected by this and they are interested in what's going in
there and it sounds to me like if you could organize a meeting or
something with the neighborhood, that would be very beneficial to you.
So I'll keep my motion as it.
And I will second.
I concur.
Mr. Chair.
Yes.
If I could ask Mr. Clark, could you provide us with the square footage of
the existing church? If that's possible. The concern about the traffic is
that, that building will likely be reutilized and the parking issue will still
be there for that with the addition of the church.
Will you also get them the information on the public notification
otherwise it's going to come back here anyway.
Absolutely.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 26
Name? Thank you Mr. Clark.
Name? Thank you.
Chair:
Staff:
The next item on the agenda is large scale development 05-1588 Piedmont
Place Apartments. If the applicant would come forward and we'll hear the
staff report.
The subject property is located near the southwest corner of Weber
Avenue and Melmar Drive down by FCC Investments. Project site
contains 1.43 acres. It is currently zoned RMF24 and just May, last May
the city passed an ordinance to rezone this property from RSF4 to RMF24.
With the bill of assurance offered by the property owner. That bill of
assurance states the development on this property will consist of no more
than 32 units. All structures on the property will be no greater height than
two stories. The applicant did at the time that the City Council was
considering this item, the applicant did a proposed site plan as well as
elevations and we have submitted those elevations to you and that site plan
and you also have the proposed elevations and site plan. The proposal at
this time is to construct four two story apartment buildings on subject
property. There will be 30 units total with 28 two bedroom apartments
and two three bedroom units, with 51 parking spaces where 60 are
required. Fifty one parking spaces are within the minimum or allowable
spaces, thirty percent below required. The applicant has required one
access to the property from Weber Avenue and staff is recommending that
a drive isle be provided to connect this property with the property to the
north. The parking lot area within this property adjoins parking lot of the
Moriah H apai tments and we are recommending that access be, that there
be cross access at the north west corner of this site where there is currently
a stub out at a hammerhead turn around. We find that with the addition of
a potential 200 and 620 vehicle trips per day, the increase in volume of
traffic onto Weber Avenue specifically may cause a dangerous traffic
situation and find that allowing another point of access and another ability
for these residents re exit to the north to the streets to the north would be
beneficial for this property and this area. Surrounding land uses are
mostly multifamily residential uses except to the south where there is a
small single family residential development. At this time staff
recommends forwarding this large scale development to the Planning
Commission. The main reason for that is that there were several items
which were requested to be revised at the technical plat meeting which
have not been addressed. Therefore we would request that this be
forwarded with those revisions all addressed. Before I address the
conditions of approval I would like to state that we have received
responses from the surrounding property owners as they were required to
be notified. We did receive 12 responses. Of those, six responded
favorably, two responded objectionably to the project and four were
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 27
indifferent. With regard to conditions, we are proposing forwarding with
recommendation with 23 conditions. Of these, staff recommends that,
again, access be provided from this property to the parking lot on the
property to the north. We do feel that the applicant has complied with all
the conditions of the bill of assurance that the proposed building
elevations do comply or are compatible with those presented to the City
Council at the time of the rezoning. There will be a parks fee in the
amount of $11,790 for the addition of thirty multi -family units. We would
like to mention that in condition five the structures will need to be
separated with ?? to satisfy the City of Fayetteville building code
requirements so that when this is submitted for review that they will need
to meet those requirements as determined by the building ?? division.
Item 15 discusses all of the items that need to be revised on the plat and if
you have any questions I'll be glad to answer those.
Chair: Are there any further comments from staff or from engineering?
Name? Yes. On the tree preservation report, there are several very large trees
currently located on this property. The initial recommendation was to
look at the means to preserve these. However, in visiting the stie and
looking at the condition, there are definitely some questions regarding the
condition and health of these trees. Staff did recommend an arborist be
employed to look at the condition and based on the arborist report, most of
those large trees are in severe decline and have disease or decay. So it's
not typical that we recommend 48 inch maple trees come out or 38 inch
elms but in this case I think it's warranted due to the significant decline.
Development around a lot of these trees would put them in danger of
creating a hazardous situation as well. There is one large tree near
Leverett Avenue that the applicant is proposing to preserve and staff's
recommending with that mitigation on the property.
Chair: Any further comments from engineering.
Name? Yes. As to Leverett Avenue, the sidewalk constructed along the entire
frontage at the right of way per the master street plan. The driveway at ??
needs to be also, per city code. On the grading plan, we need all items
from grading plan check list. On the water and sewer, we need those
centered and those easements that are provided. Also need a little bit more
clarification on locations, sizes of water meters. Have that coordinated
with the meter division.
Chair: If you would introduce yourself and if you've got any comments about
your project.
Applicant: Sure my name is Birch ?? I work with Project Design Consultants for the
civil engineering firm on this project. A couple of comments, Mariah H.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 28
There have been discussions with the property owner of Mariah H
apartments and it is my understanding that they are averse or they disagree
with access front due to them having owned this property at previous time
and not being able to build on it, they feel that, since we were able to make
it through that allowing us access into that parking lot would not be, they
wouldn't appreciate it.
Name? So how do we get around that one? Is it just a recommendation that they
have connectivity?
Staff: It is a recommendation. Their proposed thirty units and typically to meet
fire code would require two points of access but I've not heard anything
contrary to this from the fire department. We're recommending two
points simply because this will place all traffic on Leverett Avenue and
have to go right or left onto Leverett.
Name? Is the ?? portion the part that's not constructed right now.
Name? The ?? portion is the part that no ?? will be allowed to be parked in. So
that means that allows for fire trucks to do some kind of turn in there.
Name? Sitting trucks?
Name? Actually ?? Just said this was ok .. hammerhead. Basically (inaudible)
Name? Ok. So what sort of.
Name? It's fine with us.
Name? Right now it's stubbed out, it's going to be stubbed out at the property
line.
Name? Well, it looks like it's stubbed out, I guess it is. But it's really more of a
hammerhead and this would be the logical place to ??
Name? Dumpster.
Name? It's a complete turn around so the dumpster can pull in and back around.
Chair: Are there any public comments on large scale development 05-1588
Piedmond Place Apartments? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the
commissioners.
Name? Jeremy if Mariah H will not grant cross access, what's your feelings on
that as far as moving forward?
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 29
Staff:
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Again it's something we don't have a strict requirement unless the fire
department requires it. It's a recommendation for connectivity. The other
option is recommendation for denial of the project if you feel it creates a
dangerous traffic situation on Leverett. That's something the planning
commission is bound to decide. There have been situations in the past that
property owners have been required to purchase easements or rights of
way to construct those. Again it's our recommendation that that
connection be made.
Ok. Is Leverett here scheduled to be widened?
Not that I'm aware of.
Didn't think so.
I'm assuming Mariah H only has one entrance, exit onto Leverett itself?
No they actually connect all the way over to Garland.
They go through there. Ok.
And they also open onto that east west street that's to the north. Melmar.
What were the tech plat issues that we had requested be made? There was
a mention of tech plat that we asked be revised.
That's correct. At the Technical Plat meeting we pretty much make all the
technical comments on the plat. Many of those such as locating the
sidewalk at the right of way, correcting use, number of units on the plat,
things like that were not made. And I have listed those in item 15.
Ok. All of them are there? You are all in agreement with those?
Yea. One of the big changes at Tech Plat was the reduction of two units
due to the ?? area ratio. So actually, when the City Council looked at this
the first time, they were actually looking at more units than what there is
here now.
Six instead of four.
Ok.
You know the way some things are crammed in, this looks spacious to me
and very low density. I recommend that we forward.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 30
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Name?
Chair:
Name?
Chair:
I have a couple of questions. Jeremy you mentioned that we have in the
past required that applicants purchase an easement. I don't remember that
so I'm not sure how we would phrase a condition if we were going to do
that.
I think honestly if the planning commission feels that it is imperative for a
second means of access for this project to be approved then that would be
the condition of approval you would place on the project.
Is that they would purchase an easement of some kind to go across.
To gain a second means of access. I think it's likely impossible to the
south or to the east or the west. So really the only other option is to the
north there into that existing parking area.
Because Melmar goes over to Garland, does it not?
Correct.
And that would be another way out. And then my other question was, we
were submitted with the current proposed elevations and the bill of
assurance, I noticed in the condition stated that staff's finding that they
match. There are few little difference but I assume based on the condition
that everything's ok.
That's correct. There were specific conditions or requirements from the
bill of assurance which have been met and then the plans presented to
council weren't specifically addressed in the text of the bill of assurance
but they were obviously part of the intent. What the City council
reviewed. And we feel that the building elevations are very similar and
that the layout of the structures are similar, they've actually reduced the
parking in front of the building so that there is no parking on this proposal
which we find is better, or more beneficial, at least to the streetscape that
what was proposed.
Well my inclination is to continue to stick with staff's recommendation on
having that access out to the other side to, my fellow commissioners are
pretty disagree with me on making a motion to forward to the planning
commission. Does anybody have any other comments? Motions?
If we were to insist on that connectivity at this level, I don't know what...
Well, I think that the motion would just state that it would leave condition
one in rather than taking it out and forwarding it.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 31
Name? We would let the full Planning Commission decide on that issue. I agree
with that.
Name? Yea. That was my intent.
Name? Ok.
Name? I'll make a motion to forward large scale development 05-1588 to the full
Planning Commission for consideration.
Chair: With all the stated conditions.
Name? With all the stated conditions.
Name? I'll second that.
Chair: And I'll concur. Thanks.
Name? Thank you.
Chair: The next item on the agenda is large scale development 05-1593 Nelson's
Crossing. If we could have the staff report on that one.
Staff:
Yes. This property is located, bordered by Joyce Boulevard on the north
and Shiloh Drive on the east. It's adjacent to the Spring Park commercial
subdivision. A portion of the site is within the design overlay district.
The property has street frontage and ingress/egress on Joyce Boulevard
and Shiloh Drive. The site is zoned C2 and it's surrounded by commercial
development on all sides. The applicant proposes to construct a retail and
office shopping center ?? on this elevation ward consisting of 62,650
square foot retail building and a 5,486 square foot retail building with 233
total parking spaces. Parking is proposed in conformance with our
ordinances and ?? dedication would require a total of 35 feet from the
center line of Shiloh Drive. Currently as planned, the plans show 25 feet
of center line from the right of way on Shiloh Drive and this isn't in
compliance with the master street plan and compliance with this plan is
included as a condition of approval. The project is located in the design
overlay district and I'll go over some of the findings for those at this time.
Regarding green space, the applicant has not complied with the 25 foot
green space requirement along all rights of way within the design overlay
district. The plans show 15 feet of green space along Joyce Boulevard and
along Shiloh Drive with the required additional dedication of 10 feet of
right of way the project would have, it looks like 15 feet of green space.
So compliance with these requirements is included as a condition of
approval. Signage, hasn't been depicted on the plat or elevations at this
time. The other big issue is curb cuts and at this time the applicant hasn't
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 32
complied with the curb cut requirements that require a minimum of 250
feet from an intersection and 200 feet between curb cuts. And the
proposal utilizes two curb cuts on Joyce Boulevard, one on Shiloh Drive
on the east and one on the shared access easement on the western border
of the site. And the eastern most curb cut on Joyce Boulevard and the
curb cut on Shiloh Drive do not meet the minimum distance from an
intersection, 250 feet. Additionally, the curb cut on Shiloh Drive does not
meet the minimum distance between curb cuts. Cross access is proposed
to the west with an access drive connecting from Shiloh Drive, across the
southern border of the site to a shared access easement linking north and
south to Joyce Boulevard. Lighting, it hasn't added to the plat indicating
compliance with lighting and we'll discuss the elevations in a minute.
They have some building elevations and building materials and we'll see
those here. There are some other issues regarding site coverage is
required with 25 percent open space and we just need that to be included
on the plat. The design overlay district also requires pedestrian access
from the street to the entrance of the structures and we also need that to be
on the plat. It's not currently shown. With those issues summarized I will
go over the conditions and we are recommending forwarding this to the
full planning commission and with a fairly lengthy number of conditions
to go over and I'll just try to highlight some of these. Condition number
one, planning commission determination of commercial design standards.
Staff finds that the elevations need to ?? commercial design standards.
It's shown the elevation, it's a well articulated structure and originally had
some concerns with it being, you know, tieing in with the other
development in the area and the red brick. ?? discussion we're looking at
its basically is due to the scale of it and it's not actually in the Spring Park
Subdivision, it has own design theme to stand alone. So that's how we
made that determination. Condition number two requires an additional
right of way dedicated for a total of 35 feet from the center line along
Shiloh Drive. And tying into that condition is number three, with an
additional dedication of right of way it would cause the project to violate a
25 foot green space requirement so would require the plat to be revised to
show 25 feet of green space. It is a request to revise the city be mapped to
show the design overlay district boundary in condition four. And then
condition number five is related to curb cuts. And the eastern curb cut on
Joyce Boulevard we're recommending that it be moved to the west
approximately 30 feet to line up with the driveway immediately west of
the proposed curb cut and this would eliminate a violation with the design
overlay district curb cut requirements for 250 feet from intersection. It
would also, at this point we need to scale that out a little bit better but it
would eliminate the violation with the 25 foot green space requirement
along Joyce Boulevard because the design overlay district boundary
comes through almost at that exact point so if you move, and they would
have enough green space if they moved the driveway to the west, there
would be enough space there. Condition number six is related to curb cuts
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 33
on Shiloh Drive and really any curb cut on Shiloh Drive would be in
violation of the design overlay district standards and we do recommend
that there be a curb cut along Shiloh Drive for connectivity. It's just a
matter of where it be placed and what violation would be...
Name? Would be the most desirable violation.
Staff:
Yea. So we've identified a couple of options there as possibilities. That's
recommended for the planning commission determine that. We also
recommended pedestrian access from the street frontage to ?? structures. I
have also mentioned briefly about requiring, a note about lot coverage or
the percentage of ?? on the site needs to be provided. And I'll just skip
down to condition number 13 that says that if all requested revisions are
not received by the revision deadline, this will not be, proceed to the
Planning Commission. Also, condition number 16, just wanted to make
sure that all roof mounted utilities will be properly screened. The front of
the building is, the roofline ?? with screen, utilities in the back. We just
wanted to make sure that you wouldn't be able to see them in the rear as
well. That summarizes all the planning issues.
Chair: Are there any further comments from staff or from engineering?
Staff:
Yes, ?? of the hotel formerly on this site, evidently the trees were
removed prior to approval which constituted a violation of the tree
preservation ordinance. The one tree that was proposed to be preserved
initially in the technical plat review, that's when we found out that that
had been removed and ?? The developer of the property has removed
trees above the minimum required. Proceeding approval of tree
preservation plan, again was a violation of chapter 16704. Our code does
address that requiring an additional 10 percent of total area of the property
forested ?? to be reforested. There is not an option to pay money in lieu
because of that violation you have to reforest. There are additionally some
discrepancies between if you scale off the plan what the calculations are
for the tree canopy and then look at your site calculations they are about
half of what they should be so if you could take a look at that. And then
final mitigation number will just come from that plus the 10 percent and
we can determine ?? mitigation numbers with revision submittal forward
to the Planning Commission.
Chair: Other comments from engineering.
Name? The only comment I had is in relation to water services. That the
individual occupiers of the building, are they going to have their own
water meters or is this going to have a master meter for the entire
building?
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 34
Name? I don't have an answer to that at this point in time. We'll work with you.
If we have to go to individual meters, if we've gotta get a lot more water
line extended around..
Name? Right.
Name? So I'm anticipating that it will probably be some kind of a master meter.
Name? Ok.
Name? But I don't want to make any promises I can't...
Name? Alright, as you pointed out, it's awfully congested in the rear. So any
services would probably have to come from what would be the front of the
building so we'll have to look at that when you have a bit more
information.
Name? What I would, again no guarantees at this point but would be to come off
of this east side. There's a water line that runs up there and ?? either a
meter bank ?? the west side, or a master meter over there for the entire
site.
Name? Ok.
Name? The ?? easement has been vacated (inaudible) . it doesn't have to go
through all the other utilities.
Name? Depends on if it's actually ?? utilities or if it's sanitary sewer easement.
That's exactly what would have to ..
Name? The only utility ?? is the sewer line and we couldn't find the actual
easement. If you guys have a copy of it somewhere on file. But I suspect
it was strictly just a sewer easement but I think 99 was constructed ...
(standing too far from the mike)
Chair: Any further comments from staff. Alright if you have any comments as
the applicant.
Applicant: We have some... first off, Shiloh Drive, I understand that it is currently
shown as a collector street on the master street plan. However as I
understand it that the city made a conscious decision back when C&M
moved in that it would never be extended beyond the creek simply
because it was too expensive and they were alternate access points. Am I
correct in that recollection? Is staff aware of that? May have to research
it.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 35
Staff: I know that lot that C&M did not construct a, they have a subdivision
there and did not construct to connect to Shiloh, that is correct.
Applicant: So it was our thoughts was that since this really, even though it shows up,
it continues to show up on the master street plan as a collector street, we
should be able to get some type of a waiver to allow us not to dedicate the
initial ten feet to make it a collector size right of way. We may have to go
procedurally for something on that, that's going to be our request. Access
points, I have some reservations about moving this existing drive, moving
the drive that's out on Joyce, the one that falls in the overlay district
further to the west. It wouldn't meet the 250 foot setback. However with
the service area coming around the back. If we shift it over, that means
the trucks would have to try to dodge through the parking lot to get lined
up. Right now it comes over and basically it's a straight shot up and out.
These existing drive falls in this location. We are moving is slightly to the
east. Slightly more of a violation than currently exists. But from a
parking standpoint and a traffic flow standpoint it makes a lot of sense to
do that.
Name? Well is there any, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I know that both of
those decamp onto the south side of Joyce which only goes east.
Applicant: No, there's an island, the island stops in here.
Name? Oh, so you could turn left from that driveway.
Applicant: You could turn left.
Name? There's an existing turn there now.
Applicant: Ok. Here's the existing drive right here and we're just shifting it a little
bit. So we really feel like...
Name? That would mitigate the location if it was only going one way. So people
coming west could turn left into that.
Applicant: Correct.
Name? That is a tremendously busy intersection.
Name? Is that a turn lane there next to the island? I remember...
Name? Yes.
Name? I think so, yea. I know there's one further down.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 36
Applicant:
Name?
Applicant.
Name?
Applicant:
Name?
Applicant:
Yes there is. One of the things we didn't show on this because we don't
know what's happening yet but the same developers have acquired this
corner lot and once the first buildings are built, the tenants will be moving
into those buildings and then this site will be demolished and it will be
redeveloped. When that happens we're going to provide, these will be our
only access into the sites. We're prepared to, again I can't promise
because it's, we can't make it, but we intend to close these access points.
So that will eliminate this corner island and will provide us significant
improvement in the traffic flow and the congestion in that area. I don't
think there's actually any access out to ?? currently but...
And what's the actual distance from the comer to thi
I don't have my scale. I don't know. It looks like ...
One hundred and eight feet?
I was going to say it may even be a little further than that because we're
looking at ... So it looks like it may be 210 to the edge?
So that's a 30 foot violation. So what does that??
that's 220. So we're not really too far off. If there ever, the question that
came up, I don't know if you want to deal with these or just let me ramble
on what my thoughts are.
Chair: I need to give the public the opportunity if there's anybody out there first.
Before we kind of get into the ?? There's probably not anybody. Is there
anybody from the public here who would like to comment on large scale
development 05-1593? Seeing none, we can get into our discussion now.
Applicant: The other thing and we knew the overlay district cuts through somewhere
along this line. We've plotted it and looked at it and we've moved this
triangle, we've done different things and eliminated this parking at one
particular time in order to meet the 25 foot setback. Like this is our drive.
We didn't try to push anything further but when I started looking at
leaving this little green space, I thought we're so short on parking as it is,
we're having to use the available reduction in parking. So I thought well,
it makes sense at least to come in and ask for a variance or a waiver of this
25 foot for this small section right here so that within the overlay district.
We'd meet it everywhere else but if we could get this one to, is that a
waiver or is that a variance? Waiver, for these nine parking spaces. We
could sure use the parking.
Name? Question. Jeremy are you all, is the city just asking for one curb cut off of
Joyce now?
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 37
Staff: No.
Name? We're just going to move that existing one? We're going to move it west?
How far and how far from the.
Name? Looks like it'll be thirty feet from where it's located now.
Name? It would have to be 30 feet in order to meet the 250 foot setback right?
But the drive also needs to line up with an island, so I think staff's
recommendation was, is to shift it 62 feet which would get it over here and
lined up with this alternate drawing I think is what your recommendation
was. So and again, to do that, to try to get trucks to make those turns is
really tough to do inside a parking lot.
Name? I think it's going to be important to show that because, see this is going to
be a very busy development.
Name? Looking at the corner and then show...
Name? Show how much room is in the existing here proposed and I don't know
what it's called where you put those in the road where nobody can get on
them but it separates, you know what I'm talking about.
Name? Median.
Name? Median. Because you might have a lot of traffic coming in off this
entrance and we don't want it to back up, back into the traffic. The right
of way's not there, that would
Name? I suspect that people, you know a lot of drivers are not very bright in how
they try to do things. But I think when they see it backing up here in
alternate drives they would be tempted to go one down and use these
alternate entrances.
Name? You see a lot of crazy things right around here so..
Name? We work just down the road and I see it every day.
Name? Well, we want to make sure it flows for you.
Name? I agree with you 100 percent.
Name? I personally don't have a whole lot of trouble with 30 feet. But I think it
definitely needs to be discussed.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 38
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Applicant:
Name?
Applicant:
Name?
Staff:
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
It needs, you're going to have to have some kind of waiver or variance for
a curb cut on Shiloh. All this is going to have to have access to get back
out onto 71 through there, so I agree with that.
Right and there is an existing drive currently, well there's actually two
existing ?? One into the center in property and then the other one was into
the Golf USA building. And of course Golf USA will be closing that
access to have it all internal.
On the curb cut on Shiloh I'd be more inclined to think that the curb cut
being proposed is better than trying to move it. Because moving it puts it
really really close to another curb cut and you're still leaving it like it is.
You're still 200 feet away from the intersection which is better than
having two curb cuts that close together.
I agree. That makes a lot of sense.
In addition to all the hundreds of things that you have to do before you
come to full Planning, could we have also some indication of where this
next curb cut on Shiloh is?
Well it's into ??
Ok, right there. It does show. Ok.
So we're moving away from the one that will be staying by moving it to
where they are.
So the problem with that Shiloh curb cut, I'm not real clear on it, is that
they're too close together.
No, right now it's that it's too close to the intersection. And they're
asking for a waiver to put it..
It's also too close to the adjacent curb. In the overlay district we're 200
feet between curb cuts.
If we move it away from the intersection, then you put it right next to
Well, and you know, you've got to have that curb cut on Shiloh. I can't
see that you can get around that at all so it's the lesser of two evils.
Moving that curb cut south puts you in the same situation again with what
you're talking about over hear where you're lined up straight with the
building and you don't have a drive isle between the future development
and the building.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 39
Name? Right and we had looked one time about moving it all the way down to
here but boy that was even worse. Because we still really need a corridor
into the development so..
Name? I'd be inclined to leave the curb cuts as they proposed on Shiloh and Joyce
because it is just the way it lines up with the building and so forth and the
way the property is, I just think that it makes more sense. Because you've
essentially got a violation almost anyway you go or you've got traffic
stacking and having to jog around inside the parking lot.
Name? What would it be? Is it a waiver or variance on the right of way along
Shiloh. Or is there any option for reducing that?
Name? There is. The Planning Commission could recommend either a ?? right of
way or a master street plan amendment for the entire section of Shiloh.
But that would then have to be forwarded to the City Council for approval.
Name? For the reduction, it has to go to City Council?
Name? Correct.
Name? Ok. Is that stated as a waiver or is it.
Name? It's a, it's called a lesser dedication of right, it depends on how you'd like
to proceed with it. Either a request to, well staff will take a look at it. On
Shiloh Drive, maybe we can just ?? the entire master street plan along ??
Name? My only other question is that you have a lot of things to comply with
before full Planning Commission. Do you think you can get them done?
Applicant: I will do my absolute best and if I don't, ?? I will do this
Name? Including the updating the tree preservation to the additional 10 percent?
Applicant: Yes.
Name? It will be on this?
Applicant: Yes.
Name? Ok.
Name? On condition number one, the commercial design standard?
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 40
Name? I don't have a single solitary idea. I know the architect. I'm prejudiced in
his favor already. But the idea of Tuscany in the Ozarks is always
appealing. And I think it will really improve the looks of that corner.
Name? We're already dramatically?? As soon as the rubble's gone it will be
much better.
Name? But there's obviously plenty or articulation. There's a wonderful variety
of materials, the color palette is very appropriate. I know there are ??
about doing something that's sort of themed like this but I find it very
attractive and I think it's going to be a huge improvement for that part of
town. Maybe it will give some other builders and developers some ideas
about what they can do besides reflected glass and steel.
Name? I have another procedural question. Since I don't normally have to chair
these meetings, but on forwarding this to the full Planning Commission do
we need to make any, if it's the feeling of the commissioners that are here,
for example on the curb cuts, do we need to make those kind of findings
here and forward it that way?
Name? For the minutes and for the record and also for the Subdivision meeting
report to the Planning Commission and that full body.. .
Name? We may need your help on what's a waiver and what's a variance and
things like that on fashioning, refashioning the conditions of approval and
making this motion. Because we've got first of all a green space, second
of all a right of way dedication assuming that there was a motion to leave
the curb cuts as they are. So we would need to know how to state the
conditions two and three regarding the green space and the right of way
dedication if we were to find on five and six that the curb cuts would stay
the same.
Name? Does considerations for variations from the design overlay district
considered variance that are granted by the Planning Commission.
Name? So if we were to find that way, commissioners, it would be a motion
finding on number one that they didn't meet commercial design standards,
number two recommending variances from the right of way and green
space requirements and on number five and six allowing them to leave the
curb cuts as proposed and granting again, is that a variance also, from the
design overlay standards.
Name? I'm in favor of all those.
Name? One statement I want to make and this is related to the trees that we're
taking down. They hired a outside demolition contractor who was not
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 41
used to this and he was not instructed to take those trees out. We'll pay
the penalty. We understand that but just for .. it was one of those things.
We made provisions and tried to save that tree that was the one nice tree
on the site. One afternoon I looked over to see how the demolition was
going and I didn't see the tree anymore and I thought Oh, no. You know I
hated that. But those things happen sometimes and you proceed on. But
we apologize for that.
Name? Well in twenty years, nobody will notice.
Chair: Are there any other comments, or motions?
Name? Well the first curb cut on Joyce. I have some safety concerns and I would
like to note that for the full Planning Commission. I would agree that if
they, if you all and they agree that that's a safe ingress and egress right
there, a curb cut out, I'll go along with that so I'll make a motion that we
approve, or we forward LSD 05-1593 to the planning commission in favor
of agreement with condition number one, staffs findings of commercial
design, in favor of commercial design standards, with number two ??
Name? Recommending a variance of right of way and the green space
requirements.
Name? I'll agree to that and number three?
Name? That's two and three.
Name? Two and three, ok. And I'll go ahead with number five and make a
recommendation that the curb cuts proposed stay as they are and grant a
waiver and/or variance, whichever is needed there.
Name? And also number six.
Name? Number six.
Name? Yes and number six. And all other conditions of approval as stated.
Name? And I'll second.
Chair: And I'll concur.
Name? Mr. Chairman. On condition number four if you could also ?? the design
overlay district boundary on the site plans as well, that will give a lot
better idea
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 42
Name? I think we'll probably drop it into the plan also. We've had it on our
drawing before to show exactly where it's coming through here.
Name? We've got a drawing in the ?? it's hard to
Name? It's hard to relate that to where the building was.
Name? I think the curb cuts across the street from Joyce, too would be beneficial
to see as recommended by commission.
Name? Yea, I would agree.
Name? Yes, as much of those adjacent streets as you can get on there or on a
drawing.
Chair: Thank you.
Applicant. Thank you.
Chair: Lets take a five minute break.
Staff:
The adjacent master plan street for this particular property is ?? road
which is a collector requires 35 feet from center line per master street plan
requirements. Interior rights of way are proposed at 40 feet with a 28 foot
wide street and 42 feet with a 24 foot wide street with locations where the
street dead ends or as a short connector street. There are street stub outs
proposed and developed property to the north and the east of the subject
property. The train and existing development surrounding this property do
prohibit connectivity to the west, south and southeast as well as the
existing subdivision and parkland ?? to the south. Staff is recommending
improvements along the frontage of ?? road to include a total of 14 feet
from center line with curb, gutters, storm drain, street lights and six foot
sidewalks constructed at the right of way line as well as the interior street
and improvements. The parkland dedication required money in lieu for
this property seeing as there's a park directly adjacent to this to the south.
The parkland fees in lieu in the amount of $71,595. Mitigation is required
and there are comments in your packet regarding true preservation plans.
They do need to be revised before this proceeds to the full Planning
Commission. Staff is recommending forwarding this item to the full
Planning Commission with a total of 21 conditions. As I mentioned just
now, recommended revisions to the submitted tree preservation plan.
There are several discrepancies I continue to find in those calculations.
I'm just not sure where that's coming from so if you could just please
make sure those are taken care of before the deadline and if not, we'll just
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 43
delay that project. There's pretty detailed comments in there so we're not
going to go over all of those. Planning commission determination of
adequate lights ?? street design. Staff is recommending a couple of
revisions for possible all cul de sac streets be constructed at 24 foot width
within a 42 foot right of way with sidewalks on both sides of the street.
Additionally staff is recommending removal of the slight eyebrow, there
shown at lots 75 and 77 just before the cul de sac we feel that would be a
situation, a very odd configuration and could produce some traffic
conflicts in that area especially with the small cul de sac in the area
directly adjacent to it. I mentioned onsite street improvements directly
along ?? Road. Additionally at the technical plat review meeting an
offsite evaluation of ?? road was requested from the applicant. It's not
been conducted. It has been quite awhile since this has been in technical
plat review, this project for whatever reason has not come back to us for
quite some time but at this time the proposed development would result in
approximately 1290 vehicle trips perday on ?? road which is a significant
increase. It's more than most of the phases of Stone Bridge Meadows
increases out there, not totally combined but individually. With the
annexation and rezoning of this property it was discussed in some detail
about the offsite improvements that would be required of this development
on ?? Road and that's essentially why staff requested that evaluation. At
this time we're not prepared to make a detailed recommendation because
we don't have the evaluation of what ?? Road is like, Bridge Dale
subdivision is improving a portion of that, the city is improved a portion of
that that's located within the city limits and we're simply looking for
Robert Troad and ?? Road to be evaluated. If a proposal or evaluation is
not provided staff will do that prior to planning commission in our own
evaluation. There are a couple of plat revisions and access easement
needs to be shown to the lift station off of the private drive that is to be
constructed. A few of the lots are unbuildable as I mentioned. One for
storm water and one to be owned and maintained as if ?? essentially from
the subdivision. ?? those in another phase. They are extending the sewer,
extending to the north, but that's just an additional amount that's going to
be entering the system here so we'll need to complete analysis of lift
stations in this series. There are several and your adding another one at
132 lots, 130 residential lots. We also need an analysis of the water
system. The current configuration that you have, it's not a true ?? system.
I know as this area develops we'll be able to make connections but right
not as it's shown there's no valve separating the two connection points
that you have along ?? Road. So if there is a problem with one line on ??
Road, this entire subdivision is going to be without water. But we are
taxing the system in this area with all these developments to we will need
to have this study. Bring this to our consultant who has the water model
and have this information input and see what it does with our water
system. Other than that I have no other comments except just to confirm
that the water and the sewer mains are centered within the ?? east. The
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 44
street table, the street widths, the green spaces and sidewalks don't add up
to right of ways. That needs to be revised.
Chair: Would the applicant like to introduce yourself and tell us about your
project?
Applicant: I'm Glen Carter with ?? and this is Jason Apple. We have ?? the rights
alone with this project. But we've been trying to get that last
determination accomplished and we think we're near that so we wanted to
come back to subdivision committee and move on with the project. Its our
intent and desire to comply with the creek preservation ordinance in every
respect. Jeremy mentioned there are a few discrepancies in what we've
done and we'd like to meet with him and iron that out and we don't see
that as any significant problem. There's also I guess a misunderstanding
with study on ?? Road. We were asked to be there and ?? about what we
were asked to do. We did go out and get information on the road. We,
our understanding was to show the ?? on the plan which was not shown
before and we did that but apparently we need to do more than that. But
we've got measured road widths and we understand we need to improve
the road and we want to comply with that. It's not a problem so whatever
you'd like us to do there, we're trying to pay money in lieu of
construction. That's our stance on that. Other than that we would like to
entertain any questions you might have or comments.
Chair:
Bruan:
Is there any comment on preliminary play 05-1429 the Hamptoms. If you
would step forward sir, and state your name and your address and give us
your comment.
My name is Chuck Bruan. I'm at 1525 Roberts Road. My property is the
property is right north of exits of Street G and Street A. My primary
concern is the curb from ?? Road where it connects into Roberts Road and
then the entrance of Street G onto ?? Road. It's a distance of
approximately 112 feet. It's a sunken road and I've lived there for
approximately 13 years. I'm well aware of the traffic patterns there. You
know, with its new construction and new buildings it's a lot more. That
turn with that small amount of footage, I feel there's a dangerous situation
especially since I've lived there and I've heard certain, the cars, the
screeching. Also that road is the main access exit outside this whole
development area when the road on ?? road, the bridge there, when it
floods which it does several times a year and the road on River Meadow,
there's a structure in the middle of it and it's hard for a lot of people to get
in and out of there especially with the hill. So a lot of people in the area
now are using Roberts Road there and we're going to have a lot more. As
the plan I see here, there's no exit other than Street G and Street L. The
new plan shows a street going north but there's no connection there now
and I don't know how long it will be before there will be one. But anyway
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 45
on that ?? there's going to be approximately 128 with people going
through that curve in the morning and the afternoon. That's what ?? this
development. And I believe there's some problems with visibility there.
My house is an acre of garden and I have the hedges there for privacy an
that road is sunken and that is a problem there and that's what I'd like to
have addressed.
Chair: Thank you.
Braun: Thank you.
Chair: Are there any other public comments on preliminary plat 05-1429. Seeing
none, we'll bring it back to the commissioners for any questions they may
have. I've got several. One of my questions is, it's probably directed at
staff on Street B and then when it turns over to Street A, both of those
links, at least on the map and I don't know the scale of the map. It looks
fairly long without any kind of an intersection. So my question was
whether those meet our requirements as far as having straightaways like
that through a subdivision without any intersection. I'm talking about
south of street C as you have Street B going down and as it intersects with
Street A going over to Street I.
Name? Street I to where Street B is connected is approximately 650 feet or so.
Chair: What is our standard
Name? Our standard block length varies from 400 and 1400 feet. I would say that
Street B is much longer. We did discuss the gap ?? potential to construct
Street F over to Street B to create more of a grid network there and
alleviate some of the concern, especially with Street B. It's approximately
1000 feet in length there, the length of Street B. That is something we had
discussed with the applicant at a previous meeting as well. I think we
probably make a safer situation there. We've seen ?? that is there. We're
actually evaluating many subdivisions right now for traffic control
measures because of long streets without any intersections.
Name? I've certainly driven through plenty of subdivisions that have basically
raceways.
Chair: My other question is the distance between Roberts Road where it
intersects ?? and Street A and also the distance between Street A and,
sorry, Street G and then the distance between Street G and Street A.
Because Street G and Street A look to me on here like they're pretty close
together coming out on ?? Road.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 46
Name?
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The north property line from Street G is approximately 150 feet to the
center line and center line to center line between those two streets is about
250 feet there.
A little bit bigger than it appears to me. That bothers me as well. They
seem awfully close together.
I would almost prefer to see Street A, or straight over to Street A and
continue on to Street B and Street F as a connector through there from
Street A to Street B and you've got a block ?? Street I that would intersect.
We did look at this and connecting this and tried to make that work and it
just takes out so many lots to do it it just didn't seem feasible to do that.
?? going across here to connect here and taking away this access entirely.
Taking that out.
So we'd only have one access to the subdivision?
Well, we can't do that.
Well you'd have this ?? connection up north. Those two access points
seem awfully close together to me.
What kind of a traffic snafu would it create if G ran straight north and
came in at the intersection of Goff and Roberts.
The biggest issue is that it would probably create a Y to make a 90 which
is possible.
That might alleviate some of Mr. Bruan's concern of exactly where these
ingress and egress points are. It would still provide two entrances. And
they would be further apart.
If you shifted Street G over to line up better, then it would be further away
from Street A.
I know it's not really our job to redesign people's subdivisions but, if you
could look into that as a possibility, maybe with some...
Sure. Our thoughts were that this curve should be avoided for, it'd create
an unsafe situation when you have an intersection coming into a bend like
that.
Right.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 47
Name?
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So we wanted to stay as far away from that but we needed to have two
entrances just to try to let traffic out. I mean having everybody stacked up
at one would create a difficulty and I think that's how we got to this
position here.
Some people will choose to go down Goff ?? instead of going up towards
116. But I think there might be a better solution to this situation even
given the fact that is was, you know coming in at a curve. This road has to
be improved anyway.
With Street B and Street A being so close together, my other concern is
they end up stacking up anyway because that B, the folks on Street A turn
out on to Goff ?? and people on Street ? are sitting there waiting, they're
just going to have to sit there and ?? You know especially in the morning
when they're going into work and so forth. It's just a concern. I'm not he
engineer. You guys know more about it than I do, but I'm just, I could
foresee a situation where you've got people, you've got stacking up along
Street G waiting on traffic off of Street A all the time because they're so
close together.
We'll sure look at that.
But I understand the concern about trying to get everybody out of there.
It seems to be like if we extended Street G it would make a worse
intersection than if we left it here, just because of the fact that a Y, I'm not
familiar with that turn so...
Well it's not a real sharp turn, but the way that it's presently constructed,
obviously it's a country road. It's a farm road.
It would likely require, if that option be utilized, Street G went straight
creating essentially a T or three way intersection there. ??
Three way stop.
That would be more desirable, do you think?
It would probably ?? us sit down and take a look at the design criteria,
design speed for ?? collector street. Just need to determine if that's
compromised by looking at realignment Staff would more than be happy
to sit down and look at those alternatives. Especially if the Planning,
Planning Commissions job is to make recommendation, while it's not to
design a subdivision, if their concerns are safety, it's definitely your
position to make those recommendations, so staff would be more than
happy to sit down with the applicant and look it over with them.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 48
Name? I just have a concern about Roberts Road and Street G and Street A just
kind of being clustered up together there and I really do think, I don't
know if the lots could be realigned somehow but I do think that from a
safety standpoint on Street B, I believe Street F needs to carry over to
Street B. ?? have a traffic ?? affect on this intersection there. People can
slow down than they do if they know they can just race all the way down
to where it intersects down here.
Name? Jeremy you said that the maximum was 1400 feet?
Staff: Right. That's the acceptable range. Correct.
Name? I was just curious because I think, how far is it on Street B?
Name? It's about 1000 feet.
Name? It's basically a drag strip.
Name? What they do on a lot of the ones we use to see approved, ?? 800 feet and
they've got curves or something that slow it down. Whenever it's straight
like this, I can't recall when we've approved or forwarded that that was
longer than say 800 or so.
Staff: That's exactly correct. There are several that we've seen that at the limit
or longer at the 1400 and they do have curves or something in there.
Name? It's just sort of straight shot combined with the length that caught my
attention.
Name? And we're being asked to forward this Jeremy?
Name? I have a question, a different question. With the bridge over on, Jeremy
help me out,
Staff: On ?? Mountain Road?
Name? Yes. We are currently taking assessments on that. Will that be looked at
with this project?
Name? I believe this falls just out of that assessment area.
Name? There will be a lot of traffic coming that way tho.
Name? I agree. That is something that we could look at in evaluation of Goff?
Road if this subdivision would like to, as I mentioned, contribute to an
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 49
assessment. That might be something we could look at in lieu of making
improvements. It depends on the valuation of Goff ?? Road.
Name? It might be a good trade off. That bridge needs to be repaired soon.
Name? There are several subdivisions you'll be seeing soon. Stonebridge
Meadows Phases four and five are coming your way on Goff ?? Road so
there is a lot of traffic being generated in a very short period of time this
year.
Name? Yea. I would rather see, unless the improvements are just absolutely
necessary, some assessment maybe put toward that bridge. Not actually
just an option.
Name? Also, just to hit on that point about the improvements of Goff ?? Road.
We do have our survey for the widths of the road just to let you have that
so we have done that study. Just, we just didn't know that you guys
needed it, needed to see it before the meeting.
Name? Mr. Chair. Based on the comments that we've received and the revisions
that have to come in, the revisions for this project to be due on Monday, I
don't think that would probably give enough ample time for staff to get
with the applicant to look at redesign on the subdivision, especially access
concerns and also an evaluation of the bridge assessment versus, because
it's outside the bridge assessment area, that might be something we could
trade off as far as the relationship to Goff ?? Road. But I think we also
need to meet the intent of the council and the annexation rezoning ??
making improvements to the street system, so, with the comments we've
received, I think it's probably more appropriate to come back to this level
after we've kinda flushed out some of the issues.
Name? It would probably save you some trouble down the road as well. When
are their changes then due to come back to subdivision ??
Name? I don't think I have that schedule with me.
Name? I just want to make sure they have plenty of time.
Name? I understand your suggestion that we make these changes and come back
to subdivision committee?
Name? Correct.
Chair: Really, my suggestion would be to take a hard look at this area right here
and what you can do about the Street B situation, the length of it and work
with staff on it and then come back to this level. It may be, it wouldn't be
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 50
the first time that you come back and say, we couldn't get anything
worked out, and if that's the case then you can take your chances with the
full Planning Commission at that point. But I think that there's still
enough issues here that are up in the air that you guys appear willing to
take a look at at least and work with staff on that it would be beneficial for
you to come back to the subdivision level before you go to the full
Planning Commission. Is there a motion to that affect.
Name? Mr. Chair.
Chair: Yes,
Name? I just want to clarify one thing on the water system.
Chair: Yes.
Name? I would be more comfortable with the subdivision if this was a loop
system at this time.
Name? If it was what?
Name? If it was a loop system.
Name? Well, we have, you made that comment earlier and I remember we looked
at that. We looked for another way to loop and we noticed in the
subdivision to the south, there is a water line to the south there. Course it
comes back into the same line so I don't know any way that we can loop
that. But we'll certainly like to work with you and do whatever you like.
Did you see that, did you notice that the water ?? comes down to that
southeast corner?
Name? Yes.
Name? So what's your inclination? What did you want us to do or look at? Or is
that for us to determine?
Name? Yes.
Name? I didn't know if you had any specifics like, we want you to go here.
Name? We'll look at whatever you propose.
Name? Alright you want to make it?
Name? Yes.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 51
Name? I will move that we ah
Name? Table.
Name? Table, preliminary plat 05-1429 until such time as suggested
improvements have been explored.
Name? Ok.
Name? I will second.
Name? And I'll concur Thank you gentlemen.
Chair: The next item on the agenda is PZD 05-1599 Zion Gardens. If the
applicant would come forward and we'll have staff report.
Staff: This project is located northwest of the intersection of Randall Place and
Zion Road. Property is zoned RO residential office. It contains
approximately thirteen and a half acres. The request is to approve a
preliminary plat of residential planned zoning district with 95 townhomes
attached and detached on the property. Surrounding land uses consist of
single family residences and open undeveloped pasture. Details on the
project, the applicant proposes 97 lots as follows, 76 lots, lots 1 through 76
would be detached town homes. Eighteen lots, lots 77 though 95 in the
southeastern portion of the south side are to be either detached or attached
town homes and lots 96 and 97 would remain undeveloped for easement,
open space, tree preservation. The lots will ?? the streets and have access
off the rear 16 foot public alleys with the exception of lots 66 through 76
that will front the tree preservation area. The project is designed to give a
neighborhood feel behind ?? street and provide adequate sidewalks
providing garden areas to be maintained by the property owners
association. As this is a planned zoning district, it will be a rezoning and I
will go over some of the zoning criteria for this project. Some of the
criteria hadn't been provided by the applicant yet and staff has suggested
some possible zoning criteria in the staff report and to be clarified and
provided by the applicant as well. All the lots would be designated for
city wide uses by right, city wide uses by conditional use, single family
dwellings and home occupations and it is mentioned that lots 77 through
95 would be allowed to have multifamily dwellings as well. The density
is approximately seven units per acres. The ?? area regulations haven't
been provided at this point and staff provided a table with some possible
recommendations for lot width minimums and lot are minimums and those
sorts of issues. Applicant is proposing setback of twelve feet with zero
side and rear setbacks. Applicant needs to provide height requirement, or
height regulation as well as the building area or the percentage of the lot
that would be allowed. Access to the site as mentioned is from Zion Road
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 52
and Randall Place and the project proposes a stub out to vacant property to
the north and its direct access to Zion Road, a collector street to the south
and the east it's direct access onto Randall Place, a local street and staff is
also recommending a stub out to vacant property to the west. Staff is also
recommending an evaluation for improvements along Zion Road from the
project boundary west to Old Wire Road to include, a look at the road
surface and storm drainage in that area. The project would improve Zion
Road and Randall Road along the project frontage with the master street
plan standards of 14 feet from center line, curb and gutter, 6 foot
sidewalks at the right of way along the storm drainage. Tree preservation
is required on the site there. Besides mostly open pasture, there are some
trees in the southwest corner and along the property lines. Staff is
recommending this project to be tabled. Revisions submitted did not
reflect those requested at technical plat review and I will ??
recommendations ?? recommend that it be tabled at this time. There were
several comments that hadn't been addressed from the technical plat
review and as mentioned all the zoning criteria needs to be included on the
plat and flushed out exactly what they want to do with this project so that
needs to be determined and there's several ?? added to the plat and as well
as mentioned ?? evaluation ?? road conditions, drainage condition as well
the tree preservation numbers haven't been revised to reflect ?? plan and
since technical plat we had some pretty substantial revisions to the plan
and some, the tree preservation numbers just need to be updated to reflect
that. The legal description was reviewed by city ?? division and they had
some comments ?? so it resolved that issue. Staff is also recommending a
stub out to the west and we're requesting that be included on the plans.
Also requesting that the right of way line along the length of alley two
which is the southernmost alley extend to reflect that the ?? proposed
parking spaces are not part of the right of way. We also requested that the
plat be revised to make it more readable and clearly there was a long layer
or two that were turned on in autocad or something that showed up on this
so some of the lot lines are skewed and some of them are actually
bisecting through units and so request that to be looked at. Some of the
other conditions I wanted to bring up here. Condition number five, staff
recommends that ?? Lane be revised for a total of 50 feet of right of way.
It is a through street and would extend to the west at some point and it
connects directly onto Randall Place. And we're also requesting planning
commission determination of appropriate street width for Frontier Elm
Drive, that's ?? Well actually Lantana Lane is one we're requesting
Planning Commission to look at. That's ?? feet and we had recommended
that it be 50, so still look at that. We also recommend that this plan
provide some sort of western access to the tree preservation area starting at
Lantana Lane and some type of meandering path through the trees and
ending up at the sidewalk connecting at Fredonia Lane. Those are the
highlights I wanted to call to your attention at this time.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 53
Chair: Are there any other comments from staff?
Name? Yes. A couple of clarifications. Item number five, the Lantana Lane
which is north south street. Staff's recommendation, ?? at the speed of 50
for a right of way of 28 foot wide streets ?? access north and be a through
street. Number six, sort of the same condition, staff is not necessarily
leaning one way or another on that one. It's going to be a through street a
24 foot wide street. Would accommodate two way traffic obviously with
onstreet parking. I think the one heading north, there's significantly
undeveloped property to the north could become, there's at least 80 acres
and then some in that area, so it could become a major street sometime in
the future without any other access to Zion Road south. So that's where
my recommendation's coming from there. There are quite a few
comments on the tree preservation plan. We met with the applicants after
technical plat review meeting to look at increasing the canopy. There is
not proposal to go from 12 and a half down to point five percent. And
they have significantly increased the canopy in their efforts. ?? things to
be able to count some of that as preserved however have not been
presented. We've discussed it and I think we know where everyone's
going but it's just not been presented to the commission or staff formally
as part of this ?? packet and of course that needs to be submitted for you to
be able to recommend approval of the overall project so I have included
those comments here in the packet, about eleven comments on the tree
preservation plan as well as some comments on the landscape plan, which
the landscape plan was not submitted either as requested so that and the
revisions that did not come forward, I think probably because there's
significant work done to try to meet the goals of this PZD just didn't get
made in time to get to this level. So we're recommending that it be tabled.
Chair: Are there any comments from engineering?
Name? Yes. I'm going to prepare detailed comments for both of these tabled
items and provide them to the applicant. I'm just going to go over a
couple of the items. If we could go ahead and I usually don't request that
but if we could have a separate sheet for the utilities, I believe that would
be beneficial. And we'll also be looking at that improvements on the
design road on the drainage. The other comments as I stated we'll provide
in detail.
Chair: Would the applicant introduce yourselves and let us know about your
project.
Applicant: Jeremy ?? with H? Engineering. We are representing the applicant for
Zion Gardens and the project's been well introduced. As far as comments.
We were just disappointed yesterday that this thing would be tabled so
we're really here to see what the concerns are and address those as well as
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 54
possible. Just to clarify, you all mentioned Zion Road, the street condition
that you ?? the street condition and drainage. What exactly are you all
looking for there.
Chair: We can get into a discussion after we get the public comment but if you
have any additional comments to staff's reports you ??
Applicant: No.
Chair: Is there any public comment on PZD 05-1599. Thank you. If you would
introduce yourself and give us your address.
Lea:
Thank you. My name is John Lea, spelled L -E-A. I live at 2770 East
Randal. And that's Randal spelled with one L. We have two concerns as
property owners in this situation. The first is the storm water runoff across
our property. We've got a significant issue with the runoff come across
from Zion down Randal place, through a culvert in front of my property,
across my property and then out to Lake Fayetteville. We have had a
significant issue within the last two years caused by the development in
the area of 265 and Zion Road and we're not ?? capturing this run off
water. In the last two out of three years that runoff has completely washed
out that culvert which can be substantiated by the ?? ... had to come back
and rebuild that culvert because of the flow that is now coming down
through that area. I contacted the city engineer about this and I had Mr.
Petrie come out and take a look at that and he totally acknowledged the
fissure and the immense amount of erosion that is now taking place on our
property as it flows all the way through from Randal Place out to Lake
Fayetteville and acknowledged the need for immediate repair to that
situation before further development could go forward and we agree with
that. We have made ?? aware of the situation and we've been trying to
work with them and the city in some way to get this issue fixed but we feel
strongly that we could not support, nor should the city support any further
development in this area until this situation is rectified. My second
concern pertains to the entrance on Randal place themselves. Randal
place is as you cited in your opening comments, a narrow side street which
is now used as the development has grown as a bypass for the light at Zion
and 265. There's a very steep sharp curve in Randal Place and you could
probably check there was a car in the ditch there yesterday because people
constantly underestimate how sharp that curve is coming around that
particular location. We've had grave concerns about the entrance being
right at the location of that curve, coming out onto Randal Place. It's a
blind corner there, they are not able to see the entrance and exits from that
area. Again, my mailbox which had no issues for 12 years living in that
area has been totally ?? twice and it's a large ?? mailbox and it's been
totally knocked down as has my fence twice from out of control vehicles
around that corner just in the last two years. So we've got us a difficult
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 55
Chair:
situation with the location of that ?? right on Zion Road. We have again
recommended to the engineers and the architect that ?? entrance and exits
could be located onto Zion Road which is slated for improvements and is
much more suited to handle the type of additional traffic ?? is Randal
Place particularly in the current location next to that sharp curve on
Randal. So that is our comments pertaining to this. As I say, we're not
necessarily anti -development but we've got two very serious issues that
need to be addressed before we feel as property owners, we can support
this type of development. I have written that up in the form of letter to
you and to the Planning Commission.
Thank you Mr. Lea. Are there any other public comments concerning
RPZD 05-1599. Seeing none we'll bring it back to the commission. I
believe the applicant had a couple of follow up questions to some of the
comments of staff.
Applicant: Sure. What I was asking about earlier was the evaluation you wanted on
Zion Road.
Staff: Initially an inventory of what is there and what could be done to alleviate
950 vehicle trips per day. One is obviously evidenced right now, the
potential improvements right now at the curve that there's that concern
there. Obviously, probably ?? know more about traffic patterns than we
do. We don't live there. And so it's evidence like this that really helps us
as well as your investigation of what is existing out there. We have
suggested looking west to Zion, to Old Missouri because the city did street
improvements there at that intersection in the recent past. To the east has
actually been improved very recently with the Fayetteville Athletic Club
expansion so there would be an access to a major arterial there at the light
to the east. However traffic traveling west, as you know Zion Road is a
very narrow road when it continues on west to get to College Avenue. So
again we're looking for adequate street standards to be accomplished
where there are substandard streets in the area. And again, that's based on
a real proportionality test on how many lots, how many vehicle trips per
day are generated by your proposed development. An assessment of
generally what is there and a lot of times we see proposals from a
developer about what they feel is appropriate. Traffic studies sometimes
are utilized to do that very same thing and if they are not, then staff makes
the best recommendation we can from what we can see out there.
Applicant: ??? With the 50 foot right of way stub outs that you guys are requesting, I
guess I'd just like to make sure that we can just dedicate 50 foot of right of
way, not actually stub the street out at this time but put the dedication
there so that that can happen in the future.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 56
Name?
That's something yes, that can happen, and assess... exactly I think the
biggest issue right now is Lantana Lane showing, the biggest thing
showing the 24 foot wide street and we're recommending that be a 28 foot
wide street. It looks like there's room. One of the other comments is that
lots 18, 17, 34, 48, 66, and 65 all have some extra space in there that's not
encompassed in the lot and that was one of the comments. When you said
to buy property, everything is to be included in something and owned by
someone and be created as the legal lot of record. Part of that can be
encompassed within the actual lot. Part of it with an extension of right of
within 50 feet. But again we are recommending that ben a 20 foot wide
street, Lantana Lane stub out to the north.
Applicant: I guess that's about it. I've got a lot of comments to review, take a look at.
Name? I think there's also, this is one of the ?? on the back side? Obviously
there's some concern about ??? owners I think you may have been
referring to both of them where this alley comes out in this curve and also,
I don't know the distance here or the scale or anything but the distance
from where this curve is to where the street actually comes out Frontier
Elm also. From Frontier Elm to the curve? To the alley.
Name? The traffic pattern there on the alley along the north was designed
specifically for exit only. And the reason for that is because of exactly
what Mr. Lea stated. We felt that it was a dangerous situation that had to
have a vehicle coming north on Randal trying to turn into that close to that
curb whereas if they're coming out there, they're able to see both
directions south and east on Randal and make a more safe maneuver
through that intersection. The one on Frontier Elm where it connects we
felt that, just because of the lot configuration it is a, there is a line of
vegetation right there along the road. It's not just the configuration of the
road but the presence of those trees right there along the east and the south
side of Randal.
Name? And I see that you guys have a copy of this. There's an addition to the list
of things under the recommendation section they've also listed some
things before that about things they would like you to report on and clarify
with them as far as you ?? height and percentage of allowable building
area on the lots and things of that nature. So it may not be included in this
other list over here so just wanted to make sure that you guys are aware of
that and get that to staff as well.
Name? On the plus side, you don't want this to be a totally negative experience,
the fact that your units ?? the outer line is great. I love the idea of the
alleys so that you have back loading, parking, back loading garages.
There are no, I'm assuming guest parking on the street would be allowed.
But you probably will have the residents parking behind. The roundabout
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 57
in the middle is a good calming device for traffic so that you don't get the
drag strip affect and then you have side alleyways decant into, or side
streets that decant into those part way down so that's, I think the streets
have been really well planned on the interior. This amenity of the, it's not
really a park, but the tree preservation area is a tremendous thing because
it will maintain, and the setbacks will maintain that kind of rural character
of Zion Road where you still have a very, fairly dense development
setback. So it won't impact the feel of driving down Zion as much as it
would if it was smack dab up against the road. So I think there are a lot of
good things about this as well as difficulties that have been identified. We
look forward to seeing it again.
Name? (too far from the mike) Tree preservation area... is that something you all
want paved?
Name? ?? connect the sidewalks between Lantana Lane and Begonia Lane and to
provide pedestrian access obviously falls about 66 through 67 since that
street has been removed.
Name? I guess more ADA requirements than anything else. But I'm wondering
whether or not that ?? be
Name? We recommend a hard surface and again, we'll work with you to locate
that appropriately.
Name? And just to address another comment that Mr. Lea had. We had ?? come
out there on his drainage problem and we have also met with Rob Petrie.
We've done the calculations to figure out how inundated this property is in
fact and it is the drainage structures there are undersize. We've made a
proposal to engineering to replace that 36 inch culvert with a four by eight
box culvert to prevent that water from topping around the road and
washing out the ?? again as well as ?? the piping the water all the way
across his property. So we do have that as part of the plan as well.
Name? One other thing that I would ask for when you guys come back is some
renderings of the actual units themselves because I know that's something
that the full commission will want to see as well.
Name? We do have some. We also have ?? brochure.
Name? ?? next time because they'll be back.
Chair: Are there any other comments from the commission, staff? Are there any
motions?
Name? I'll make a motion that we table PZD 05-1599 Zion Gardens.
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July 14, 2005
Page 58
Name? Until such time as
Name? Until such time the applicants are prepared to come back.
Chair: Is there a second.
Name? Yes, second, sorry.
Chair: I concur. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is Large Scale
Development 05-1595 Lofts at Scull Creek if the applicant would come
forward and we'll hear staff's report please.
Staff: Thank you sir. This property is located in central Fayetteville at Ash
Street less than a quarter mile east of Leveratt Avenue. The property is
zoned RMF24 residential multi -family, 24 units per acre and ?? industrial
I1. It contains approximately 1.66 acres. This site contains Skull Creek
which is a northwest/southwest running stream that bisects the
southeastern corner of the property and the flood plane and associated
flood plain ?? are located in that portion of the site. This ?? area in the
western border of the site contain a number of high priority trees. The site
is currently undeveloped with some disturbed area associated with past
grading activities. The applicant proposes to construct 15 for sale
condominiums with a total of 37 bedrooms and 26 parking spaces. The
development has a density of nine units per acre. The onsite parking is
proposed in compliance with the parking ordinance as depicted on the plat.
The lot does not meet the required lot width/street frontage of 90 feet
required for multi -family development and the RMF24 zoning district and
the waiver request from the applicant's representative to allow for
approximately 41 feet of lot width has been attached to this report,
enclosed. As mentioned this site is mainly surrounded by residential
development on three sides and undeveloped land to the east. Adjacent
Master Street Plan streets include Ash Street which currently dead ends
right at the property entrance and Chestnut Street as designated as a local
street and it has right of way along the eastern edge of the property. Staff
has a few comments from the property owner to the north, expressing
concern related to flooding and past construction in the floodway by the
applicant on this site, illegal trespass from neighbors and also emergency
access issues. Tree preservation is required and staff is recommended
forwarding this project to the full Planning Commission and I'll highlight
some of the conditions of approval that we're recommending with this.
Condition number two, planning commission determination of a waiver of
the required lot width street frontage to allow for approximately 40 feet of
frontage on Ash Street. Condition number three, applicant shall dedicate
right of way for a total of 25 feet from the center line of Ash Street and
Chestnut Streets by warranty deed prior to issuance of a building permit.
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July 14, 2005
Page 59
So that Ash Street also has a total of 20 feet of right of way from the
center line. Conditions five and six are related to development in the flood
plain. Condition number five requires that an elevation certificate is
required prior to issuance of the building permit for each structure.
Condition number six requires that no livable areas allowed below the
minimum finished floor elevation of the structure. Garages are the only
portions allowed. Those are the conditions I wanted to highlight for you.
Chair: Is there any other comments from staff? From engineering?
Staff: No comment.
Chair: If you guys would introduce yourselves and let us know about your
project.
Scuznos: I'm George Scuznos, project design consultant, civil engineer for the
project. This is Tim Cooper, he's the architect with Cooper and
Associatea and Jessica Andrews, she's also with Cooper and Associates.
We would like to mention that we actually do have 27 spaces which would
be one above the 26 recommended. So other than that I am here to answer
any questions you may have.
Chair: Ok. Are there any comments from the public on this project? If you
would state your name and give us your address.
Hart: Good Morning. I'm Peggy Hart. I am representing myself and my
husband Edward Hart. We live at 715 West Poplar. We have lived at this
property north of the proposed development since 1993 and our main
concern is runoff since we live downstream. We used to have a drainage
problem from runoff from the trailer park to the west and the lot south of
us even though it was vacant. In 2000 Poplar Street was lowered and
widened. Drainage was improved and it has done a lot to stop the
flooding problem in our area. And since the work has been done, we've
had no more problems until April of last year when truckloads of fill were
brought into the property to the south. Suddenly when it rained, the south
end of our property started flooding. After we talked with Matt Casey in
the city engineering department, we discovered that a grading violation
had occurred. Although the owners were asked to remove the dirt, the dirt
was simply moved around. The fill is still there and we still have flooding
in the south of our property when it rains heavily. If flooding occurs now
from the three days worth of fill dirt that was brought in, we can only
imagine the amount of runoff that buildings and paving will cause. Lastly,
we wonder if the developer strictly will adhere and honor the city
ordinances, codes and conditions the planning commission and staff set
forth. With one violation already committed, we strongly question the
developer's sincerity. Thank you.
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July 14, 2005
Page 60
Chair: Are there any other public comments concerning this project? Seeing
none, we'll bring it back to the commissioners.
Name? How many parking spaces did you say there were?
Scuznos: Twenty-seven.
Name? This says eleven, oh these are guests. Ok. One in front of each...
S Fifteen garage spaces.
Name? And this is the updated...
S I believe so, Umhm
Name? ...site plan. So it's been reduced to 37 bedrooms instead of how many?
S It use to be, I believe, 39 bedrooms.
Name? May I ask you something about the site.
S Yes please.
Name? The site's kind of an unusual site. First of all it has Skull Creek going
down through part of it and that kind of cuts this whole corner of the
property off which won't even be developed. It will basically be left
natural. Then the owner is also paying parks fees instead of, yea,
dedicating land money in lieu and he's actually donating a trail border for
Skull Creek that's approximately 30 feet or so onto the property. And
then this is a floodway here, so this will all be green space as well so,
actually, as far as the area goes, land area, if the flood way wasn't there
and the creek wasn't there, there could be a lot more density actually put
on a piece of property like this so it's actually fewer units than could be
seen upstream and in a different situation.
Name? I hate to put you on the spot with math. But if you were to guess the
percentage of imperviable surface compared to drainable surface on the
property, what would you say it was?
S Right about between forty and fifty percent. I mean just judging by the
numbers, by the look of it.
Name? I'd say it's less than that.
Name? I would yea
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 61
S
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
S
Chair:
Name?
S.
Name?
S
Chair:
Name?
S
Twenty five
Well the stuff that you've left is probably sixty percent.
Indicating a 67 percent green space, percent of green space.
Yea.
The other issue that, you know would probably be best to be mentioned
here is the actual buildings are being built on the flood plain, so what we
had done here, we had not modified the actual grades. We haven't raised
the site any. And that was just to avoid any potential problem down
stream that may occur from raising the site to get everything out of...\
So you're staying at grade?
We're staying at grade.
Would staff or the applicant one, care to make any comments concerning
the public comments we heard about the flooding and other issues to the
north.
Well, we have seen the gravel. They are pretty immense and they don't
look very nice.
I can say that I know the owner, as far as I know, the owner that we're
actually working for, didn't close on the property until probably four
months ago or something. I'm not sure when that was put on there but I
think it was put on there before that. So I don't think they had anything to
do with that portion of it. I'm not sure but we're going to, obviously the
owner's going to follow code and I mean, you know...
Hopefully the city will see that they do.
Exactly.
Any other comments commissioners?
I guess we need somebody to speak to how the drainage will work since
the applicant's here and she's having trouble with the previous owner but
can you all speak kind of in layman's terms with how this water's going to
not come onto her property?
Well as you can see from the parking lot, we've actually diverted the
water. It will follow down the parking lot in between the buildings and it
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July 14, 2005
Page 62
Chair:
S
will hit that hammerhead there at the end, at which point it will actually be
diverted off to the creek side which would still, it would hit the floodway
which would usually would be flooded anyway in the ?? flow. So
hopefully we are trying to get that water out before any, you know, if we
delay it, it's a potential to actually worsen the situation. So what we'd like
to do is just to get it out as quickly as possible so it doesn't affect the
downstream areas. So that's what we'd prefer to do.
Ok. I know that city code requires that no extra water that's leaving this
property goes onto anyone else's so I understand that and I want to make
sure the public understands that with her, especially with her specific
problem. So hopefully that will get relieved soon.
And we also might be able to alleviate her problem with the actual grading
of those rock where we level it out where, because they are pretty
immense and they are blocking the flow from actually...
Name? That would be ...
S That would reach and that would probably also assist in that.
Name? That would be great. Have you all read the conditions that the staff has
recommended as far as the offsite improvements with sidewalks and
things of that nature?
S
I haven't seen ?? but the one thing was the situation with Ash Street right
here, it's kind of an unusual situation as well because Ash actually comes
down and then stops, ?? and then this picks back up and goes into a rural
industrial area right here near the skating rink and so forth so. And to
actually I guess be in code, you'd have to extend this down and there's not
going to be any further, at least we don't think that that will be extended
so that's kind of what...
Name? Staff is also recommending some sidewalks be put in at the right of way
and into the, through the proposed drive. Can I give you all, don't want a
problem with that either. Ok.
Name? Are we forwarding this?
Name? Yea. I'm ready to forward it.
Name? We appreciate your helping the neighbor as soon as possible.
Name? I'll move to forward LSD 05-1595 to the full Planning Commission with
all conditions and recommendations as stated.
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 63
Name? I second.
Chair: And I concur.
Name? We'll see you again.
Name? Thank you.
Chair: For the record on our agenda it says 05-1595 and on our packet it says -
1593. She moved to forward 1593 but I just want to make sure...
Name? No didn't I say 95?
Chair: Or 95. Yes you did but the packet says 93 so I was just going to make
sure we correct that.
Name? Oh. Well which is right?
Chair: Correct that. The next item on the agenda and the last item on the agenda
is the final plat 05-1575 Bridgedale. If the applicant would come forward
and we'll hear staff's report.
Staff: This property is located at 1341 Roberts Road north of the subdivision we
heard earlier ??. the property is zoned RSF4 residential single family. It
contains seven acres. The request is to approve a final plat of a
subdivision to allow for the sale of lots the 25 single family lots proposed.
This property was annexed and rezoned in August of 2004. A year later
?? construction of the streets interior retention, water and sewer lines have
occurred and been inspected and therefore the request is for a final plat
document to be filed at the county. Right of way dedications will be with
this final plat document and there are proposed 18 conditions of approval.
Staff's recommending forwarding this final plat. The initial tree
preservation plan that was approved for this property, the applicant
indicated that he wanted to pay money in lieu and that's how that project
was approved. I sent that ?? an onsite mitigation plan, an onsite mitigation
plan has been submitted. Comments have been received by the applicant
and they are working on revisions which they indicated would be finished
today. Of course that plan will need to be reviewed in final by the
landscape administrator and forwarded onto the Planning Commission for
final approval. There are a number of conditions most of which are
directly from the preliminary plat. Staff report that you saw originally
includes a letter of ?? 51 mitigation trees. Of course all conditions of
approval including outside improvements to a bridge, I'm sorry to Gull???
Road will just need to be verified before signing the final plat. Parkland
dedication fees in the amount of $13,875 assessment for $5500 for an
unconstructed portion of North Point Street stub out on the property and
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 64
then there are some specific requirements that was placed on the project at
the time of preliminary plat regarding the offsite detention which is
located in the planning area. With that I'll be able to answer any
questions.
Chair: Are there any comments from engineering?
Name? Just that we did a final walk through on the punch list items yesterday.
There were a few minor things that need to be completed before signature
of final plat.
Chair: Thank you. If the applicant will introduce themselves an let us know
about the project.
Jeffcoat: Tom Jeffcoat, Mulholland Company. This subdivision has been
completed and the few minor inspection comments are being dealt with.
The tree planting for the mitigation is, should be in Jeremy's office before
noon and the owner is installing, meeting with the landscaper to install
those trees. Subdivision should be ready for public sales as soon as we
can get everything signed and ready to go. We agree with, most of the
comments are, have been addressed and were done so at previous plat
reviews. They're just repeated comments in most cases and that's it.
We're in agreement.
Chair: Alright, there being no public, unless one of our camera people want to
talk, we'll bring it back to the commission. Any comments?
Name? Well this is just north of the subdivision that we just looked at and
discussed the intersection at Roberts and Goth Farm and I don't know
what my point is making that observation but it's just more traffic. I don't
have any issues with this.
Name? And we're forwarding this, or staff's recommending we forward this final
plat and that is because, are there some changes from the preliminary plat,
or I can't remember. Did we put a condition on it back when we did the
preliminary plat?
Name? It was for the review of the mitigate, the landscape mitigation, onsite
mitigation plan.
Name? Alright. Then everything else is essentially the same.
Name? Everything else should be essentially the same. That's correct.
Chair: Is there a motion?
Subdivision Committee
July 14, 2005
Page 65
Name?
Name?
Name?
Jeffcoat:
Name?
Chair:
Jeffcoat:
Name?
Name?
Name?
Name?
Chair:
Jeffcoat:
Chair:
Staff:
Chair:
I agree with...
So you're forwarding this to...
Planning Commission and actually we'll, if everything looks good on the
mitigation plan we'll probably propose this to be put on consent since
there are not really outside ?? issues.
Ok. I was just wondering if you could make a condition of Jeremy's
approval on the planting plan or whatever. Either way.
I would be more comfortable with it going to the planning condition since
that was not the condition of approval that was, originally it was going to
be money and those plans have changed.
Since there's a change, we usually forward it, but he's right since it's a
relatively a non issue, it ought to be on the consent agenda. I can't
promise that but it ought to be.
Sure.
I don't see why it shouldn't at this time. So I'll make a motion that we
forward final plat 05-1575 to the Planning Commission.
With all conditions.
With all conditions as stated.
And I'll second.
And I'll concur. Thank you.
Thank you.
That's the last item on our agenda. Are there any announcements?
If you could forward to me, actually I'll probably send an email out about
the retreat. I believe ?? sent out something recently about ideas of where
to go for Commissioner Anthes as well and I'll try to send out an email
today confirming where that is and when that is.
Any other announcements? We're adjourned.