HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-05-12 - MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
A regular meeting of the Subdivision Committee was held on May 12, 2005 at 8:30 a.m. in room
219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain, Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ITEMS CONSIDERED ACTION TAKEN
CCP 05-1492: (TRINITY PLACE, 399) Forwarded
Page 2
LSD 05-1468: (TGI FRIDAY'S, 173) Forwarded
Page 5
MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT
Christine Myres
James Graves
Candy Clark
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Suzanne Morgan
Jeremy Pate
Brent O'Neal
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 2
CCP 05-1492: Concurrent Plat (TRINITY PLACE, 399): Submitted by CHARLES
SLOAN for property located at FRANCISCAN TRAIL. The property is zoned RT -12,
RESIDENTIAL TWO AND THREE FAMILY, and contains approximately 2.355 acres.
The request is to approve a concurrent plat for a residential subdivision with 6 lots to be
developed for three-family dwelling units.
Clark: Welcome to Thursday, May 12, 2005 meeting of the Subdivision
Committee of the Planning Commission. We have two items on our
agenda this morning. We will start with CCP 05-1493 for Trinity Place.
Morgan: The subject property contains 2.355 acres less the right of way already
dedicated. It is located north of Franciscan Trail which is north of
Wedington Drive near 46`h Avenue in west Fayetteville. The property is
zoned RT -12 which allows for two and three family homes. On January
27, 2003 the Planning Commission approved a Large Scale Development
for construction of six two family homes on this property. At the time it
came through as a Large Scale Development, they got approval to build
these structures and at the time they required dedication of right of way for
Trinity Place which would allow in the future these individual units to be
subdivided with frontage on Trinity Place. This LSD was approved and
since that time we have issued building permits for all six triplexes, an
easement plat was filed as part of those building permits which dedicated a
right of way for Trinity Place and Franciscan Trail, dedicated utility
easements, drainage easements and access easements where the parking is
located between the structures. At this time the applicant would like to
subdivide the property into six lots to be sold individually. This would
allow for the three triplexes which are currently constructed to be sold and
the lots which have not yet been developed to be sold individually. They
are requesting that this subdivision be done by a Concurrent Plat. The
Code states that when a property owner wishes to transfer one or more
parcels, each of which contains more than five acres or wishes to transfer
parts of recorded lots that do not require replatting, dedications, vacations,
reservations, etc., nor the extension of utilities, the Planning Commission
may waive the Preliminary Plat and approve the Final Plat or Concurrent
Plat for filing. Since we have right of way dedicated and all utilities have
been extended, the applicant at this time is just wishing for a Concurrent
Plat approval in order to subdivide this property. Water and sewer lines
have been extended, right of way has been dedicated, Parks fees have been
paid as part of the Large Scale Development approval. There are certain
improvements which still need to be installed on the property and we will
just need to verify that those improvements such as sidewalks and street
lights have been guaranteed prior to filing this Concurrent Plat. Staff is
recommending that this Concurrent Plat be forwarded to the Planning
Commission with a total of 14 conditions of approval. The first two refer
to modifications to the plat based on Tech. Plat comments. We have a red
lined drawing of the plat here that we can give to Mr. Sloan in order to
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 3
make those changes on the plat. Condition three states that any required
improvements adjacent to each lot shall be completed prior to issuance of
a final C of 0 for the structure on that lot. Condition four, Lot 7 shall be
an unbuildable lot utilized for the purpose of storm water detention and
maintained by the POA as indicated on the notes on the plat. Condition
five is a standard condition regarding subdivision area signage which if at
anytime were requested, would need to be permitted in accordance with
our ordinances. Conditions seven through ten refer to tree preservation
requirements.
Clark: Does Engineering have anything?
O'Neal: No comment.
Sloan: I'm Charlie Sloan representing S & T Enterprises, which my family owns.
This is what we requested to do originally. After many drawings with Mr.
Conklin's approval this is the best that we could do. We put a street,
Trinity Drive, in which is a full street. This was intended from the
beginning of our first approval to make these six individual lots. I guess
we will never go through this situation again but we were setting it up
through Large Scale so we could build it prior to putting the streets in.
That is why this is a little bit convoluted having to come back for this.
What we thought the minutes read, we would just file a Final Plat and go
through like a normal subdivision, we didn't realize we would have to go
back through the steps of creating a subdivision again even though we
built what was approved. We are just asking for your permission to go
ahead and do it. We have got the streets in, the first three buildings are
built. The other three we will probably start on in a manner of a few
months. Right now we do have buyers for the first ones and are ready to
go ahead and proceed forward. We did request a Large Scale to allow us
to guarantee landscaping per building rather than putting all the trees in
and run the risk of killing the trees for the last three lots. We have bonded
everything. We just told the bank to renew the Letters of Credit again.
Even though the first three are out we will keep the same amount rather
than having to recalculate.
Clark: This is the first time I have ever seen one of these. Commissioners?
Myres: It seems rather straight forward. They are not asking for anything
extraordinary. I would like to recommend that we forward it.
Graves: I agree that they just built what was approved in 2003.
Myres: I will state that in the form of a motion. I move to forward this request,
CCP 05-1496 to the full Planning Commission.
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 4
Graves: I second it.
Clark: I will concur.
Pate: Charlie, if you could look over condition number seven sometime before
now and the full Planning Commission. The original trees approved at not
the ones shown on the most recently submitted plans.
Sloan: We are going with the ones that are on the original set of prints. My
landscape guy went and bought those.
Pate: Take a look at this because Kim Hesse originally reviewed this and denied
the trees on the original plan and the mitigation plan actually signed by her
included soft tooth oak, pin oaks and red maple. The red cherry, dogwood
and something else is what you have on here.
Sloan: I will check with him today. Trees are already planted.
Morgan: This is the red lined plan, if you could have them return those with the
revisions.
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 5
LSD 05-1468: Large Scale Development (TGI FRIDAY'S, 173): Submitted by
MCCLELLAND CONSULTING ENGINEERS for property located at LOT 16B, CMN
II, 463 E VAN ASCHE DRIVE. The property is zoned C-2, THOROUGHFARE
COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 2.10 acres. The request is to approve the
development of a restaurant with approximately 5,914 s.f. and 117 parking spaces
proposed.
Clark: The final item on our agenda is LSD 05-1468 for TGI Fridays.
Pate:
This is a Large Scale Development for a restaurant, TGI Fridays, located
north of Logan's, south of Fuddrucker's, west of Olive Garden. The
property was split out back in February, 2004 when the Logan's Large
Scale was approved. This is Lot 16B. It is approximately 2.10 acres. The
request is to approve the development of a restaurant with approximately
5,900 sq.ft. and 116 parking spaces. There are some questions right now
about the actual square footage of the structure and how many parking
spaces are required. The property is located within the Design Overlay
District at the southeast comer of Mall and Van Asche. Part of the
approval for the Lot Split for this particular lot is that shared access off of
Mall would be made. There is an existing access easement for that
particular piece of property. Additionally, the applicant has supplied an
agreement from Logan's in their materials which allows for a second
means of access in our packet. It is essentially an access easement that
does allow for a second access. You will notice here on the west side with
the Logan's approval there were two parking spots there in the southwest
corner. Access to this property is proposed in three different points, one
from Van Asche Drive and then two from the Logan's lot. One to the east
was planned for, the one to the west over here currently houses a couple of
parking spaces but they have worked out with Logan's to have another
access point, which will help the circulation of traffic considerably. For
this particular piece of property, it is in the Design Overlay District, there
is a requirement for 250' of separation between the entrance driveway and
the intersection. I believe that is being complied with. Additionally, we
are recommending that this request be forwarded to the full Planning
Commission because there is a Conditional Use attached to it for excess
parking. We have seen those quite often in this particular area. The
number of parking spaces based on the square footage we calculated,
which is 5,914 sq.ft., at one per 100 sq.ft. allows for 59 parking spaces.
Our ordinances do allow for a 30% increase by right. That goes up to 77
as shown there on page two of your staff report. Proposed is 116 or 117.
That is about 51% over what we do permit. Staff has been in contact with
the applicant over the time that this has been in the process. While we are
generally supportive of this type of application and the reason why is
because there are a number of uses that are the exact same uses out here
and therefore, have the same peak parking demand times and shared
parking doesn't become an option when everyone has the same parking
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 6
issues at the same time. The O'Charley's restaurant which is west of this
can share parking with Target or Kohl's and they did not request an
increase in parking because they do have the ability to share. In this
particular case there is just not that ability and we generally support that
case. In this particular instance, that 51% is a little higher than what we
have normally seen. On average we see 36%. For the Conditional Use at
the Planning Commission meeting we will put together a chart for you
showing all the restaurants in the area and the numbers we have permitted
over that so you can prepare. We have permitted one restaurant at 52%
over what they were required. That is the highest in the city I'm aware of.
I think that was Red Robin. Most of the others have been anywhere from
22% to 36%. Fuddrucker's was 33%, Smokey Bones was 22%, Red
Robin was 52% and Ruby Tuesday, on the other side of town, was 37%.
That kind of gives you an idea of what the range of parking over is. That
is not a decision that you have to make today but it would be prudent to
give some sort of guidance. With that, we believe that most of the
requirements for the Overlay District are being complied with. There is
one change that does need to be made to the monument sign. Right now
they are showing 8' tall with 80 sq.ft., that needs to be a maximum of 6'
tall with 75 sq.ft. Two wall signs will be allowed for this particular site
because they do have two frontages. The other issue or Planning
Commission determination, is commercial design standards. Condition
number one talks about that. Staff finds that the northeast elevation and
material samples do meet those design standards, also, the Overlay District
standards. The south elevation though, we feel is largely blank and
unarticulated. Staff is satisfied with the north elevation. We feel that the
east elevation meets our standards. The south elevation in particular is
something that we are worried about. We feel it needs either changes in
materials, other elements or things that we have seen in the past with these
restaurants. With almost all of these corporate restaurants they have a
prototype and we have to meet in the middle of how we can fit this
community and meet our design standards. It is not Atypical to work with
these to meet our design standards.
Clark: On our elevations we have signs on every facade, does your board
supercede this?
Pate: Yes. These are the revisions for this meeting. We do have a materials
sample board here as well.
Clark: You are still showing three signs.
Pate: One of those will need to be removed. The west elevation, we feel that
with changes here, this portion could be a little more articulated as well.
The majority of the wall is unarticulated. These scoring lines, I'm not sure
what those are but I know we have talked about scoring lines and how
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 7
well they articulate. Sometimes they do create a shadow line, sometimes
they don't. We feel it is more appropriate to utilize a different type of
material or different color and somehow tie that in with the elevation. I
think this is very well articulated and something of that nature wrapped
around on the south side. We discuss all the time what is visible and
what's not visible. All of these sites in this particular area are extremely
visible. You can see all four sides. It is just the nature of that particular
piece of property that you can see all four sides from the rights of way and
so, because they are in the Design Overlay District, we are held to a higher
standard. We feel that this elevation needs to be addressed as well as
portions of this elevation. Probably not as much because they do have
elements there that meet our standards.
Myres: There are some very definite changes in the projection of the individual
parts which create shadows. I would be real happy to have that rear
elevation embellished slightly, to bring it more in congruence with the rest
of the building.
Pate:
This portion here is what you see here. The wall face is all the same
material and I think that is one of the big things. It does allow for some
movement, this is where the coolers are. Something I noticed here is that
these coolers need to be entirely enclosed and not be visible from those
walls. All utilities, including refrigeration utilities, need to be planned for
in the architecture of the building. Most of these have been successful in
that area. The property to the north was not as successful. Fuddrucker's
ended up putting larger rooftop units than they originally anticipated and
so when they were trying to get open it was delayed for screening so I
want your architects to know that up front, parapets to hide those utilities,
freezers and coolers need to be screened. Other conditions we would
request that in your submittal for the Planning Commission, we just need
two full size sets, the rest can be 11x17, that will save you on paper and
money and that will save the Commissioners on large plans. As we noted,
we need to nail down the number of square feet on this plan. It is 6,654
and on others it is about 5,900 so we need to nail down that number so we
can determine the percentage of the parking. I think that is all I have.
Signage will need to comply with the Overlay District requirements. On
the Landscape Plan the shrubs that are shown to screen parking I think
need to be embellished somewhat so that the parking areas are all
screened, especially in the blank areas here. We can work that out at the
time of building permit. I think that's it.
Clark: Engineering?
O'Neal:
I just want to confirm that I'm getting one of those full size sets. I do have
two comments. The first one is we need to show the sidewalk along Van
Asche through the access drive there continuous through the drive. On the
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 8
Clark:
Morgan:
water we need to add a 2" valve before the meter. That way we can
isolate all three of those lines, the fire hydrant, the domestic service or the
fire service. That is all I have.
Please introduce yourself and tell us about your project.
My name is Mike Morgan, I'm with McClelland Engineering representing
TGI Fridays here in Fayetteville. TGI Fridays is very anxious to do
business in Fayetteville and certainly appreciate the city's cooperation in
getting out site plans approved. Especially since we are in the Design
Overlay District there are a number of challenges that it looks like we are
very close to meeting here. I do want to address, it seems like most of
these comments are fairly simple to address, just a little more articulation
on the building and a little higher wall on the back, some landscaping and
engineering comments. I would like to go over very briefly about what
I've seen with the neighbor's calculations for their Conditional Use
applications. Currently we are surrounded by uses that are very similar to
ours. We are surrounded by approximately 5 restaurants, about to be 6
restaurants. What I would like to nail down is are we looking at gross
building area, gross floor area or net floor area for these calculations?
What I have found, it kind of started with this letter itself, the Logan's
restaurant is proposing a 8,060 sq.ft. restaurant, this is a gross building
area number taking into account the external sides of the building, the rock
face of the building. That area would be the 8,060 sq.ft. I understand that
to be gross building area or slab area. I understand gross floor area to
mean the area within those walls instead of the perimeter. If you start
taking away mechanical room, utility room, then that becomes net floor
area. The ordinance reads gross floor area, which would then be the
interior of the wall of the entire building and everything that is connected
to that building directly with no external material yard or external
dumpsters or anything like that. That is the way we saw it. The records
that I could find real quick, the Smokey Bones building is labeled 7,567
sq.ft. which as you scale that, that same 7,567 sq.ft. is what was used to
calculate their allowed parking spaces plus 30% allowed by ordinance and
then the amount over that is what the Conditional Use has been applied
for. That same number shows up as what their initial allowance was to be
for parking. To me that seems like a gross building area which would give
them an inflated number over gross floor area and certainly inflated over
net floor area. Red Robin's is the same way. I had the advantage of
having an electronic copy of this and I did a perimeter around the Red
Robin and again, this building area of 6,256 sq.ft. is what was used for the
calculation, which then gave us our numbers for the Conditional Use. I
just want to use the same numbers for the TGI Fridays. We are a small
establishment. We are the second smallest in this list. We are around
6,000 sq.ft. with the latest footprint. We are also the second smallest in
our request of 116 spaces. 116 spaces is not a lot when you have 210 seats
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 9
available inside your restaurant. The restaurant uses 210 seats available
for calculating the number of parking that they need. The city uses square
footage of the building so that is what we are deferring to of course. I
think our allowance of square footage being that we have to take out
coolers and mechanical rooms may be more of a net square footage which
would be below the gross square footage. I believe our neighbors are using
a gross building area which again, puts us at a disadvantage on paper when
we are asking for a percentage that is a little bit lower than 51%.
Clark: Ok, Jeremy, where does the 5,914 come from?
Pate: That was the original submittal that we got from McClelland. This one
shows 6,654, I'm not sure if the building prototype changed.
Morgan: We added the coolers to the back of the store so again, that number that is
represented both here and here is a gross building number. It is basically a
slab area number.
Clark: I am assuming you all are going to get together before Planning
Commission and come up with new numbers?
Pate: I would hope so. This has never come up before. The only thing that
matters about it is percentage really. They are requesting a Conditional
Use for above.
Graves: What is the number that we are supposed to be using when we calculate?
Pate: A gross floor area. We can go back and look at these other restaurants and
see when they actually submitted a building permit what they actually
wrote down in their building permit. That would include what's within
the walls. We do calculate the usable outdoor area of patio space as well
because that is used by customers dining. In this particular instance we
didn't feel that where the coolers were was served by any persons utilizing
parking spaces, although employees utilize that as part of the obvious
operational parts of this building.
Graves: I would like us to start using whatever we are supposed to be using. It
looks like some people maybe have slipped through the cracks. I just want
to be sure that we are using what we are supposed to using. Nobody is
entitled to get an overage over this 30% so regardless of what has
happened with other people and whether it was enforced or not, I would
like to see that we are doing it the right way, the way that the ordinance
reads. That may unfortunately mean that you are the first one that uses the
right number but now that I'm aware of this, I will certainly ask that
question every time. I never even thought about the different types of area
that you could use to calculate this number. It always seemed pretty easy
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 10
Clark:
to me and now I see that, as with most things, it is a little more
complicated than at first look.
You guys can work on this and come back to full Planning with
something. A comparison is very useful I think. Seeing no one in the
audience, Commissioners, we will now talk about Design Overlay.
Myres: I have seen a number of TGI Fridays, they are all over the place and
actually like the changes that you have made compared to the original. It
is simplified a little bit. Unlike some of my fellow Commissioners, I don't
have any problem with red and white striped awnings. I think because it is
in the Design Overlay District those areas that Jeremy mentioned do need
to be addressed. Even though, normally the rear of the building would not
be an issue, because this is a 360° visual field, and it is not something that
would normally be a concern, you are approaching it through Logan's
parking lot so it is very visible from that parking lot as well.
Clark: Could they request a Conditional Use to get another wall sign because of
the visibility?
Pate: Because it is in the DOD they could request that the Planning Commission
look at that. It would not be a Conditional Use. I would have to go look
back at the ordinance to see what rights the Planning Commission has. I
think there is a variance request procedure to go before the Planning
Commission if they chose to do that.
Clark:
Pate:
I think they would have a legitimate argument that they are visible on all
four sides. I am afraid if you lose one of the signs you are going to lose a
little bit of articulation and then you are going to have two blank walls on
each end of the building. That is the only thing that concerns me. I think
the changes that you have made are much better than our original
renderings. Since this is going onto the Planning Commission we do not
have to find a fact on number two do we?
No, not really. It is just more for your information and to give this
applicant an idea on Commercial Design Standards what they need to
revise before they get to you so they are not stuck at the Planning
Commission either being tabled or coming back in two weeks. The same
thing as for the parking.
Clark: As far as I can see the parking and the elevations would be the only issues
I would have. It looks like something I would be happy to forward.
Graves: I would agree. Just for the purpose of letting you know how I would feel
at Planning Commission level, that we should be using the right number
regardless of what happened in the past and then we will do that going
Subdivision Committee
May 12, 2005
Page 11
Clark:
MOTION:
forward as well with other projects. I agree with the comments about the
south elevation that it needs something breaking it up like the other sides
have and I would be supportive of the idea of having some type of
additional signage over what might normally be allowed because you will
have traffic coming from all sides.
I would think TGIF would want something on that elevation because of
your exposure. You are everywhere and you have done so much on the
other side.
Graves: I will move that we forward LSD 05-1468 to the full Planning
Commission with the conditions stated by the Planning Staff including the
determinations that have been made by the Planning Staff.
Myres: I will second.
Clark: I will concur. We stand adjourned.