HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-06-13 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Fayetteville Planning Commission was held on June 13, 2005 at
5:30 p.m. in Room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ITEMS DISCUSSED ACTION TAKEN
ANX 05-1495: BENTON DEVELOPMENT, PP 206 FORWARDED TO CITY COUNCIL
PAGE 5
RZN 05-1502: BENTON DEVELOPMENT, PP 206 FORWARDED TO CITY COUNCIL
PAGE 7
RZN 05-1449: PAYNE, PP 755 DENIED
PAGE 8
ADM 05-1568: BOTANICAL GARDENS, PP 99 APPROVED
CONSENT
PPL 05-1509: MOUNTAIN RANCH, PP 478 APPROVED
PAGE 13
PPL 05-1510: TWIN SPRINGS PHASE II, PP 357 APPROVED
PAGE 18
PPL 05-1511: LYNNWOOD ESTATES, PP 294 APPROVED
PAGE 23
PPL 05-1432: SASSAFRAS SUBDIVISION, PP 221 APPROVED
PAGE 26
PPL 05-1399: DEVONSHIRE GLYN, PP 475 APPROVED
PAGE 28
PPL 05-1528: LAUREATE FIELDS, PP 246 APPROVED
PAGE 40
CUP 05-1526: CLINTON HOUSE, PP 483 APPROVED
PAGE 57
CUP 05-1527: ANDERSON, PP 362 APPROVED
PAGE 61
VAC 05-1521: RALSTON, PP 256 FORWARDED TO CITY COUNCIL
CONSENT
RZN 05-1523: HARTLERODE, PP 678 FORWARDED TO CITY COUNCIL
PAGE 71
RZN 05-1524: HONDA PRO, PP 367 DENIED
PAGE 74
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 2
MEMBERS PRESENT
Jill Anthes
Audi Lack
Alan Ostner
Nancy Allen
Sean Trumbo
Christian Vaught
Christine Myres
Candy Clark
STAFF PRESENT
Jeremy Pate
Renee Thomas
Suzanne Morgan
Brent O'Neal
Jesse Fulcher
Andrew Gardner
MEMBERS ABSENT
James Graves
STAFF ABSENT
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 3
Ostner: Welcome to the June 13, 2005 meeting of the Fayetteville Planning
Commission. If we could have the roll call please.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call there were eight Commissioners present
with Commissioner Graves being absent.
Ostner: The first item would be the approval of minutes from the May 23`d
meeting.
Anthes: I have some amendments.
Ostner: Is there a motion to approve the minutes with the changes?
Anthes: So moved.
Clark: Second.
Ostner: Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the minutes was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 4
Ostner: The first item is the consent agenda. There are two items on that consent
agenda tonight. Item four, ADM 05-1568 for the Botanical Garden of the
Ozarks and VAC 05-1521 entitled Ralston At this point if anyone in the
audience or any of the Commissioners would like any of these items heard
or removed from the consent agenda, please come forward. Otherwise, I
will entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda.
Anthes: So moved.
Allen: Second.
Ostner: Is there discussion? Would you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the consent agenda
was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 5
Ostner: The first item on our agenda tonight is ANX 05-1495 for Benton
Development.
Morgan: This request is with regard to a 10.47 acre piece of property owned by the
Paynes. It is located north of Salem Meadows and west of Crystal Springs
subdivision Phase I. At this time the property is within the Planning Area
and currently vacant. The request is for annexation of this property into
the Fayetteville city limits. The property is adjacent to the city limits to
the east and the south. With regard to streets, the property is accessible by
way of two adjacent streets. Water and sewer are also adjacent to the site.
With regard to fire response time, it is six minutes from Fire Station #7
and the Police have indicated that the annexation of this property will not
substantially alter population and thereby undesirably increase the load on
their services. With regard to findings, we find that the annexation of this
property will not create an island of unincorporated area nor a peninsula.
The applicant has worked with staff considerably to revise their boundary
descriptions for annexation to exclude a 20' strip which would create an
undesirable boundary of the city limits At this time with the proposed
annexation boundary staff does find that it will create acceptable city
limits. The property owner to the northwest has indicated that he too is
considering annexation into the city which will extend the city limits
slightly in that area in the future. Staff is recommending approval of this
annexation and associated with the annexation is a rezoning request.
Should this property be brought into the city it would be automatically
zoned R -A, Residential Agricultural and the applicant is requesting an
RSF-4 zoning district. Staff finds that that is an appropriate zoning
density. The properties to the east and south are zoned RSF-4 and
developed in that manner. We find that that is an appropriate and
compatible density in that area and we are recommending approval.
Ostner: Thank you Ms. Morgan. Is the applicant present?
Hern:
My name is Kip Hern with H2 Engineering representing Benton
Development. Basically, this project is just a continuation of the other
residential developments along Salem Road. We will be submitting a
RSF-4 subdivision if we get approval here. It will reflect the same type of
development as Salem Meadows directly to the south and Crystal Springs
which is located to the east of this development across Salem Road. If
you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Hern. At this point I am going to take public comment for
ANX 05-1495. We are also discussing RZN 05-1502. We will vote on
these independently. Would anyone from the public like to speak to these
issues? Seeing none, I will close it to public comment and bring it back to
the Planning Commission for discussion.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 6
Anthes: Staff, we have a six minute response time to the new fire station, Fire
Station #7, is that correct?
Pate: That is correct.
Allen:
Pate:
Allen:
Pate:
MOTION:
To follow that same question Jeremy, we talked about asking the Fire
Department just what is an appropriate amount of time. I know that in six
minutes a house can be damage control and I wondered if you had an
opportunity to do that since it is applicable to this and the ones we will be
talking about later.
I was able to ask, unfortunately, I wasn't able to get an answer from
Thursday evening when we had the discussion to now for the typical goal
of the Fire Department response time. I think I mentioned in our agenda
session meeting that it is my belief from what I have read in past minutes
that they are looking for somewhere between four and six minutes
response time as a goal. I don't think it is reachable in every instance
obviously, because we have city limits that were extended in the 1960's
that are well beyond that response time. I was not able to solidify that
answer.
I wonder if instead of finding out a response time if we could find out if
the Fire Department feels that the response time is appropriate. As I said,
in six minutes we are only being able to control the fire enough to make
sure it hasn't spread to other homes rather than save a house. Could that
be something that we look at rather than getting the Fire Department to
give us their best guess as to how much time it would take to put the fire
out with some of the home still standing.
Certainly. At the City Council meeting on Wednesday night we will
hopefully be able to discuss some of those options with the annexation
working session we will have. Honestly, whether this piece of property is
developed in the city or the county, the Fire Department does respond out
in this area already and without a new fire station that is really going to be
the response time that we have to live with for the time being.
Clark: Seeing no reason to go against staff's recommendation, I will move that
we approve ANX 05-1495.
Trumbo: I will second.
Osmer: There is a motion and a second, is there further discussion? Call the roll
please.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 7
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
ANX 05-1495 was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Ostner: Our tandem item is the rezoning request for the same piece of property,
RZN 05-1502. We have heard the staff report and have heart public
comment. Is there discussion?
MOTION:
Allen: This seems appropriate with the surrounding area so I will move for
approval of RZN 05-1502.
Clark: I will second.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 05-1502 was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 8
Ostner: The next item is RZN 05-1449 for Payne. If we could have the staff report
please.
Pate:
This item was first heard back on April 25, 2005 at which time the
rezoning request was to go from the current zoning district, R -A,
Residential Agricultural, to RSF-7, Single family, seven units per acre.
The property contains 3.86 acres and is located near the west end of Bailey
Drive which is about a '/2 mile dead end street. This property accesses
onto S. School north of the airport so it is in the very far south portion of
Fayetteville. It is on the edge of the city limits and the Planning Area
boundary. The property consists of one large tract owned by the applicant.
There are a couple of structures that have been removed. The Planning
Commission did tour this site at that time and at with the original request
of RSF-7 there was considerable public comment and the Planning
Commission voted to table this request allowing for some more time for
staff and the applicant to look at a more appropriate zoning district at that
time. The applicant has since requested RSF-4, Residential Single Family,
four units per acre in this location. The property as you will note on the
map attached to your staff report on page 3.34 and 3.33, it is entirely
surrounded by R -A property or property within the city of Greenland.
There is a small portion of property rezoned back in the late 90's or 2000
that is zoned RSF-4 to the southwest. Staff is not supportive of this
particular zoning request. The applicant did make contact with the
Greenland Mayor to look at potential street improvements. Staff also went
and looked at the street once again to make an evaluation. It essentially
came down to the timing of the request and the timing of the infrastructure
and services that we have out there currently. We have a half mile street,
only part of which is within the City of Fayetteville, most of which is in
the city of Greenland. There is limited opportunity at the time of
development to require substantial improvements. Our off site
improvements when we look at a subdivision of land are based on a
calculation made by rational nexus or the rough proportion of this
development's impact onto the infrastructure of the city. The amount of
infrastructure improvements that would be needed off site of this property
would likely exceed the improvements that the city could require in order
for this property to have safe and adequate access to development, even
with the 15 units that are proposed. 15 units would increase the vehicle
trips per day by 150 vehicles on this particular street which is smaller than
20' in some sections. The pinch point of the staff report really was the
railroad. There is also floodway and floodplain in this area with evidence
of flooding and closure in some cases. This would increase the problems
for emergency response should that road be closed because if there is an
emergency at the end of the street there is no other way in or out without
traveling onto adjacent private property. As I mentioned, staff is not
recommending approval of this particular rezoning. Those are potentially
the reasons, the inadequate infrastructure that does access the street at this
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 9
time. We essentially feel that the timing of the request is not appropriate.
In regard to some of the other findings more specifically, RSF-4 is a
typical zoning district within the city that we do recommend most of the
time. A lot of these areas, as you saw with the annexation and rezoning
request before, they are very near to public infrastructure, water and sewer
lines and streets too are a chief component of that recommendation.
Finding number two, a determination of whether the proposed zoning is
justified and/or needed at the time of the rezoning. That is included in this
particular recommendation as well. The additional traffic generated by the
rezoning request, as I mentioned, that is approximately 150 vehicle trips
per day with a full development of this property with a '/2 mile long dead
end street with existing drainage problems, a railroad crossing that is
currently not up to any kind of safety standard with regard to the City of
Fayetteville, I'm not sure what kind of Greenland standards are with
regard to that, we do not feel that this zoning district is appropriate at this
time in this location.
Ostner: Is the applicant present?
Payne: I am Ron Payne with Rain system Homes. We had asked for this rezoning
with the intent of building single family energy efficient homes on this
property. The area where I would like to build in I suppose most realtors
would call starter homes. They are in the neighborhood of $120,000 to
$140,000. They seem to be hard to find in Fayetteville as far as new
homes go. I'm sure everybody knows what land prices are currently
doing. It is very hard to build a home in this price range if you have
$40,000 on the lot. The only way we have found that we can buy land at
prices that we can afford to sale these homes at is on the outside edges of
town, not necessarily outside of the city limits but in areas that maybe are
not so sought after for $200,000 or $300,000 homes. In our meeting with
the residents in this area one gentleman asked me can't you build one or
two large homes and put them on an acre or acre and a half or something
like that. Bailey is not a neighborhood of $200,000 or $300,000 homes.
Most homes out there are in the 1,500 sq.ft. range. We would probably
expect a net amount of 10 to 12 homes at RSF-4. When the amount of
street frontage and dedication area there is taken out, there were two
residences on the property when we purchased it. Those two are no longer
there so I assume there would be a net of 10 new homes on the street.
There is only one house between this property and Hwy. 71. Some of the
other concerns that the residents raised were with the street, which is a
concern of mine too. I met with SWEPCO. They said that they are
willing to move their brace pole which creates the most narrow place in
the street, which is down near the railroad track. Also, by the survey it
indicates that Bailey has a 30' right of way from center of the street to the
right of way take line. In talking to the Greenland Mayor who is also the
Post Master, he indicates that if we wanted to do it at our expense that he
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 10
would have no objection to us widening Bailey from the railroad up to the
Fayetteville city limits, which is about 40' from our property line. We
would expect to widen Bailey on our frontage of the property and curb and
gutter it of course. The main problem that I understood from the residents
was the width of the street. Obviously, on a street that a school bus has to
use width can be a major problem. We also talked about drainage and I
explained to them that we have an excavator and a bulldozer and we can
do quite a few things with that which would be one way that we would
widen the street in the Greenland city limits area. However, in asking the
residents if there were any other concerns, they came up with a concern
that frankly I don't believe there is any way that I could do anything about
it. I guess you could say that they indicated that they had concerns about
the quality of people who might buy these new homes. I explained to
them that they would be new homes and that I wouldn't think that
someone would go through all of the trouble and such of buying a new
home and not take care of it. They indicated they thought that some of
them may turn into rentals and I told them I had no control over that. That
is an objection I don't know how to address. That's all that I have. Thank
you.
Ostner: At this point I am going to open this up to public comment. If anyone
would like to speak to this rezoning request please come forward.
Gallo: My name is Lee Gallo, I live southeast of the subject property. I urge you
to support the staff on this particular issue and certainly the street is our
major concern. It is not really adequate to increase our daily trips by 150,
I didn't think it would be that high. If you come into contact with a school
bus on Bailey Drive you better find a driveway because there is really not
room for a school bus, let alone a garbage truck or anything bigger than a
Honda on Bailey Drive. We like it, it is a wonderful community, we are
all R -A except for one very small part, we like our rural nature and
certainly development is inevitable, it will happen, but we would like to
try to protect the quality of life we have on Bailey Drive, as modest as it
is Thank you very much.
Bradley: Gerald Bradley, I do not live there, I am a former resident. My father lives
there, he has been there 25 years. We want to commend the city staff
again for the recommendation that they have made on this. They hit the
nail on the head. There is no need to go over it again, you heard it. There
are petitions in there, I think I counted 22 names. I would like everyone
who is here to raise your hands whether you are going to speak or not so
they will know you were concerned enough to be here.
Hatfield: I'm Steve Hatfield, I live at 3707 S. Butterfield Trail. It would just like to
endorse the staff recommendations for this project. I do really, really
want Fayetteville to have affordable housing but I would like to see it
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 11
more appropriately located within walking distance of the services that
people really need so that we don't have to keep relying on our
automobiles. That's all I have. Thanks.
Ostner: We have a petition in our packets with at least 22 names, it was the
petition that you all signed the first time that this came through so I want
everyone to be aware that we do have that and we have all of your names
Reynolds: I live at 1268 W. Bailey. I would just as soon for this property not to be
rezoned. The street, the neighborhood is just a little quite neighborhood
and I would just as soon for it to stay like it is. Thank you.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there any further public comment? I am going to close the
public comment portion of this and bring it back to the Commission for
discussion.
Anthes: On the finding about fire response time I noticed that you said the property
is located 3.8 miles from fire station #1 and the normal driving time is
seven minutes. Commissioner Clark brought to my attention that there is
a fire station at the airport, is that considered?
Pate:
I believe there is fire response at the airport. I'm not sure how that equates
into this by the phone message that I left for them. I'm not sure that they
actually respond outside of that area though.
Williams: There used to be a fire station at the airport. I don't think it is actually an
actively maintained fire station at this point in time since it was required
for commercial air service that has left the airport.
Anthes: Basically, the response here is that it is normally seven minutes but
because of the possibility of inadequate infrastructure and drainage, that
could be increased depending on the weather conditions, is that what this
statement means?
Pate:
Clark:
Correct, weather conditions, closure of the street with train crossings or
stops on that area would, of course, not allow any other access going into
that area. The way that the response times are calculated are normal
driving times. They are not with sirens on, they are actually stopping at
intersections, I do believe that they stop at stop signs, it is normal driving
time just to get to, just to let everyone be aware of how response times are
calculated.
The last time we saw this as an RSF-7 request and I opposed it at that
time. I'm still not comfortable with RSF-4 as I look at the packet. I don't
think it is necessarily compatible with the area, the infrastructure, I have
driven that road and it is absolutely horrible. Even though the developer is
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 12
willing to widen Bailey to the west of the train track, that railroad track is
pretty rough out there. Plus, it is the Fayetteville and Greenland joint
situation. I really don't see anything substantial in this proposal to cause
me to change my vote from the last time so I am going to have to agree
with staff and vote to deny this application.
Trumbo: I appreciate the applicant coming back with some solutions. You
mentioned improving the part of the road in Greenland, what about the
part of the road in Fayetteville?
Payne: We would expect to improve it also.
Trumbo: I would agree with Commissioner Clark that there is not the infrastructure
there at this time to handle anymore traffic. With that said, I will go ahead
and second her motion.
Ostner: Was there a motion?
MOTION:
Clark: Sure. The motion was to deny RZN 05-1449.
Ostner: Is there further discussion on this issue? Would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to deny RZN 05-1449 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The request is denied.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 13
Ostner: Our next item is PPL 05-1509 for Mountain Ranch. If we could have the
staff report please.
Pate:
This property is located southeast of the planned Persimmon Street and
Rupple Road, both of which are under construction as of today. The
property is currently zoned RSF-4, Residential Single Family, four units
per acre and contains approximately 59.88 acres. This is a portion of a
larger piece of property that was rezoned last summer to RSF-4 for this
Phase I of the Mountain Ranch development, which the Planning
Commission also has seen a master planned development for. This
particular request is for a residential subdivision with 117 single family
lots. It is located south of the Boys and Girls Club which is north of the
planned Persimmon, and east of the under construction Fayetteville
elementary school, which is to the west of Rupple Road, which is under
construction. To the northwest is Rupple Row PZD and Cross Keys PZD,
which are also under construction. The property to the east and south is
owned by the same developer. He does have a rezoning request in review
at this time for approximately 450 acres. This property is Phase I of a
large, master planned development. Water and sewer lines are being
constructed along Persimmon and Rupple with this development.
Adjacent Master Street Plan streets include Rupple Road, a minor arterial
to the west, and Persimmon Street, a collector, which with this
development, would tie Rupple Road all the way over to Shiloh to the
east. Staff is recommending approval of this particular request of a
Preliminary Plat with 21 conditions of approval. Three or four of which I
would like to go over this evening. Item number one, Planning
Commission determination of Rupple Road street improvements. Staff is
recommending that the developer construct a full street section 28' in
width including storm drains, curb and gutter, sidewalks and street lights
for Rupple Road south of the adjacent Rupple Road school improvements
to the southern boundary of this project. As you may remember, one of
the conditions of approval for the Rupple Road school was that they
construct the entire street section south of the intersection of Persimmon
Street to the south of their first entrance into the school. This was to
enable full street movement, both sides of the street to be fully functional
as opposed to half a street, which would not really do the school, or
anyone else any good. This potentially would carry that street section
through to the south of this property. The same recommendations that I
mentioned for the Rupple Road school was approved by the Planning
Commission. Any additional width, I know the city has spoken recently
about potentially having a boulevard cross section along Rupple Road. It
has been discussed with some of our City Council members, if that does
occur, any additional width would be referred to the City Council to cost
share to include that boulevard width. Item number two, determination of
Persimmon Street improvements, which is north of the property, staff is
recommending a cost share to the City Council in order to construct
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 14
Persimmon Street at it's collector width at this time for a portion of that
street. The developer will be responsible for the southern lane of
Persimmon, which is one lane, and all of the infrastructure south of that
street, that includes the curb, gutter, storm drain, and 6' sidewalk and
street lights. Staff is recommending to cost share for the center lane of
Persimmon. That includes the construction of that center lane. Staff is
also recommending a cost share for the northern lane of Persimmon
including curb, gutter, storm drains, sidewalk and everything else
associated with that infrastructure adjacent to the city property owned by
the city on which the Boys and Girls Club currently is located. At the time
of Phase I approval Persimmon Street will be constructed as follows:
Essentially, this will connect a two lane street and a three lane street,
different parts of Rupple Road, all the way from where it dead ends
currently. Item three, the developer shall be responsible to pay an
assessment in the amount of $4,729.73 for a future traffic signal at Rupple
Road and Persimmon Street. A similar assessment was also assessed with
the Rupple Road School. I would like to add one condition in addition to
the others that we do have currently. That would be the Engineering
comments on page 5.5 as conditions of approval for this project.
Additionally, item number seven mentions a Property Line Adjustment
that has been processed to create this legal tract of property. The specific
condition states prior to approval by the Planning Commission that final
revisions for the Property Line Adjustment shall be submitted for review
and filed with the County. That has occurred with exception of being filed
by the County. Evidently the Engineer was about five minutes late this
afternoon so they were not able to file that Property Line Adjustment.
However, we feel confident that it will be filed in the morning and would
ask to have that prior to construction plans being approved for this
development. There are a couple of waiver requests in the city street
design standards that have some unique situations with regard to the street
design. Staff is in support of those waiver requests. We have evaluated
their proposals for safety and find that they do conform with safety
standards to ensure safe traffic movement and are recommending approval
of the requested waivers. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Pate. Is the applicant present? If you could please
introduce yourself and give us your presentation.
Jones: I'm Kurt Jones with Crafton, Tull & Associates and the developer, Tom
Terminella is with me. We are here to answer any questions if you have
any.
Ostner: Thank you. We might get back with you. At this point I will open it up to
public comment Would anyone like to speak to PPL 05-1509, Mountain
Ranch? Seeing none, I will close the public comment session and bring it
back to the Commission.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 15
Anthes:
Terminella:
Anthes:
Terminella:
Anthes:
Terminella:
Anthes:
Terminella:
There is a lot going on good in this plan and I thank you for that. I just
have some questions about the lots that are facing Persimmon Road and
Rupple Road. It looks as though the rear of those lots are facing those
roads and that is something I'm disappointed about. Can you tell me what
happens at the backs of lots 33,34, 5, 11 and 12 on Rupple and what
happens at the back lot line of lots 79-88 on Persimmon? There are the
lots that back up onto major roadways.
Is your question directed at access?
No. My question is directed at how do those lots contribute, or not
contribute, to those prominent streets and what can we expect, as a city,
when we are driving down those streets to see?
On Persimmon I would expect that you would see some type of
contiguous screening, whether it is berming or wild grasses or some type
of fence material. I don't see a contiguous board fence one sided running
down the road. The project is 1.7 units per acre on an RSF-4 zoning. Our
intent is to build a bigger property as far as the size, footprint and price
point that currently does not exist on the west side of town. With the price
point and subdivision of that nature you will find more of a turn key
product at the end of the day. That meaning fences, amenities, pools,
landscaping, foliage and things of that nature. Based on the tree
mitigation that has been requested, 330 trees for 117 lots, one would
imagine that type of aesthetic look. I really don't have anything to
compare it to because we have not done it here in Fayetteville before.
Is there a grade differential that the berming would make sense? Are you
planning berms?
The area, which is in the northwest corner of the subdivision, will be a
retention basin that will be maintained for the aesthetic features and really
an area to gather. It is a multi -function deal. Yes, we are not going to be
able to sell a $350,000 home with a clear view to a three lane collector
street. The question I guess is there is going to be some type of screening,
whether it is berming, ultimately, as you can see on the plan, the hard
corners are held out. That far corner to the northwest is held out and my
vision would be something aesthetically pleasing.
But we don't know what.
No, I haven't nailed that down. I can assure you that there is going to be
some type of screening because anybody that would be buying that type of
property is going to want it for a safety issue more than anything.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 16
Anthes: My question, Mr. Sloan is building larger lots to the west of here, and
those lots actually face the street and I think that is nice and a good
contribution to our city streets. I am concerned with the fact that a lot of
places in the west side of Fayetteville are creating streets with fences on
both sides that become tunnels and aren't really part of the community. I
was just wondering what you were going to do here. You are doing so
much within your subdivision to create community that I wondered how
far it would reach out.
Terminella: With that being a collector and all of those points of access, I'm sure
somebody will be throwing a red flag. You will be pleased with the next
phase, there is some density and some vertical development packed in
there for you. We will do something that works good with that street.
MOTION:
Anthes: Those are all of the questions I had. With that, I will move for approval of
PPL 05-1509 with all of the conditions as stated as recommended by staff,
and with the additional conditions as stated by staff.
Vaught: I have one question. On the recommended cost shares, what happens, I
assume hopefully City Council will approve, but let's say with all of the
stuff going on, they surprise us and don't, will this have to come back to
us or what would happen? I doubt that we would want them to construct
half of a street on Persimmon.
Pate:
Correct. That is something that ultimately is going to be a decision of City
Council that doesn't have to come back to this level. Our
recommendation is to go forward. I think the three lane section, in
discussions with Mr. Terminella, is important in this location. It is going
to benefit the school, it is going to benefit this development. Having a
connection as well to the east to Shiloh is going to benefit everyone
involved to be able to get to the interstate as well. While I can't make a
decision for City Council, it is our recommendation that these
improvements be made at this time and that way we have infrastructure in
place for future phases of this development as well.
Vaught: I just didn't want it to have to come back.
Pate:
I can honestly say it would not come back through the entire process. If
the City Council wanted to send it straight back to the Planning
Commission that is one option. I anticipate that that decision would be
made at that level.
Vaught: With that, I will second the motion.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 17
Trumbo:
Terminella:
Clark:
Pate:
Clark:
Terminella:
Williams:
Anthes:
Vaught:
Ostner:
Roll Call:
Thomas:
Mr. Terminella, reading the conditions of approval, do you agree with all
of those?
Yes, I am in agreement with them. There are a few things that will have to
be fine tuned and tweaked with some and/ors, etc. but I am confident that I
can work that out with staff. They have done a great job up to this point.
At Subdivision I know we talked about the park issue and the parkland
dedication, has that been solved?
No, it is an ongoing discussion. There are 400 plus acres left with this
development, we anticipate though that that will be nailed down prior to
Final Plat and we will have a better idea of where the overall park will be
located.
It is nothing that Subdivision was really concerned about, we were just
hoping that we could see that here.
I have worked with Allison, she is needing some topography. We are
looking at a regional park as a land bank, it will be some 20 or 30 acres
required for the overall project. What makes sense to me is do something
centralized to where the whole world can use it. There are many different
opinions about park ground and natural features and aesthetics and things
of that nature so this might be a relatively interesting type park with some
beautiful natural features.
I just want to ask the motioner whether or not your motion included the
waiver granting all of the waivers in condition number four?
Yes, all of the waivers. Every recommendation as written by staff, t
believe that was one.
I concur.
Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1509 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 18
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is PPL 05-1510 entitled Twin Springs Phase
II. If we could have the staff report please.
Gardner: The subject property is located within the city's Planning Area on Double
Springs Road north of Wedington Drive and contains approximately 30.5
acres. The property has street frontage and ingress/egress on Double
Springs Road. The undeveloped site has relatively steep topography and
is heavily vegetated. The Concurrent Plat for Phase I of Twin Springs was
approved in August, 2004 for five single family homes and is currently
under construction. The applicant is proposing Phase II of the residential
subdivision with 23 single family lots. All surrounding properties to this
subject property are within the Planning Area and consist of large lots,
single family properties to the north, south and east and undeveloped open
space to the west. This property is outside the city limits so many of the
city's development regulations cannot be enforced. However, the project
is within one mile of the city limits and we can regulate appropriate
division of land, lot area, lot width, right of way dedication in
conformance with the city's Master Street Plan. On and off site
improvements needed to reduce a dangerous traffic condition, grading and
drainage, streets, sidewalks, and street lights in compliance with ordinance
requirements, septic system approval from the Arkansas Health
Department for lots less than 1.5 acres and street connectivity. Water will
be extended to the proposed 23 unit development and individual septic
systems are proposed on lots ranging from just under one acre to 2.5 acres
in size. The applicant bas submitted a letter from the Washington County
Public Health Center verifying approval of the soil test locations and
suitable soils for septic systems as a preliminary approval with conditions.
The applicant proposes dedication of right of way for a total of 30' from
the centerline of Double Springs Road. The internal streets are shown
with a total of 50' of right of way. The applicant has indicated stub outs
for connectivity to the north and to the south of the property. Staff
recommends approval of the project with relatively standard conditions of
approval. I want to point out condition number two on page 6.2 of your
packet is related to sidewalks. Staff has had several conversations with
the applicant regarding sidewalks because of the steep topography of the
site and since those conversations have taken place and as requested by the
Subdivision Committee, the city's Sidewalk Administrator and other city
staff have visited the site. Our recommendations are that the Master Street
Plan sidewalks be constructed along the project's Double Springs Road
frontage prior to Final Plat with a 6' width and that all interior sidewalks
be constructed, or guaranteed, in accordance with Master Street Plan
standards for a street with 50' right of way with 4' sidewalks on both sides
of the street. We feel that construction of sidewalks on both side of the
street is consistent with the city's requirement for similar projects in the
Planning Area with similar topographical constraints.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 19
Ostner:
Gabbard:
Ostner:
MOTION:
Clark:
Vaught:
O'Neal:
Vaught:
O'Neal:
Vaught:
O'Neal:
Ostner:
Myres:
Ostner:
Is the applicant present? If you could please introduce yourself and give
us your presentation.
I'm Leonard Gabbard with Gabby Hills Enterprises. At the Subdivision
Committee we talked about the sidewalks and we said that whatever city
staff decided to do we would go along with that. We still concur with that
and so we have no problems and accept all of the conditions stated herein.
Thank you Mr. Gabbard. At this point I will open it up for public
comment. If anyone would like to speak to this Preliminary Plat please
step forward. Seeing none, I will close it to public comment and bring it
back to the Commission.
I would like to thank staff for going out to look at this as we asked you to
in Subdivision. The developer is willing to meet their recommendation,
which is great. I will move that we approve PPL 05-1510 with all
conditions listed.
Staff, this is the second site we have seen in the Planning Area where there
is no detention called out. I understand that we have grading and
detention requirements, how come there is no detention area?
We have been working with the applicant and they are providing detention
down in the common area on Lot 24.
Ok, it says common area, it doesn't say detention.
That is correct, on this version of the plat that does not state that is
detention. But they will be detaining within that area.
All of the streets meet our city code for the required maximum grade of a
street?
Yes. They are right at 10% and the length of the street is within our street
standards at that grade.
Thank you. We have a motion. Is there a second?
Second.
Is there further discussion? I have to ask. This is really steep. I
understand that it is meeting our guidelines. I don't really know how to
phrase this, how are you going to build houses on some of these lots?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 20
Gabbard:
Anthes:
Gabbard:
Anthes:
Pate:
Anthes:
Pate:
Anthes:
Gabbard:
Sir, I think that you will find that on these particular lots, what we are
finding is for these higher end houses the market advantage goes to those
that have a little bit of personality on those lots. We actually field
surveyed, TOPO the lots and spent a considerable amount of time, over a
year, before we even turned these plans into the city. We went through
two separate scenarios in house. We know that it can be engineered
because we have engineered it already. Yes, it is a challenge but we feel
like once it is built, and I am sure that at Final Plat when you have your
agenda tour you will further understand what I'm talking about there.
Yes, it does meet your street requirements. Yes, it was a challenge to get
it to do so. We also feel that all of the lots, we think that it is going to be
really pretty once it is done.
On the drawing that I'm looking at here it appears that you have shown the
4' sidewalk on the interior streets on only one side of the street.
We did, when we came to Subdivision Committee there was considerable
discussion there about the sidewalks. We decided that what we would do
at that point is yield to staff comments by the time we got to Planning
Commission and if staff wants to see sidewalks on both sides we are
prepared to do so.
I seem to recall that we have allowed a 4' sidewalk on one side in certain
subdivisions but I'm not putting my finger on them, have we?
In certain instances when we do have a 24' wide street that is actually
called out as part of the Master Street Plan, there is a sidewalk on only one
side. Like you, I can't recall off hand if we have waived the sidewalk
requirements per our Master Street Plan specifically.
This is because this is a 28' street?
Correct.
I am just recalling a lot of the discussion during the consultant's visit for
the hillside ordinance and one of the things that they were talking about is
looking at not only sidewalks but curb and gutter requirements on
hillsides. I look at this and there is a typical street section shown but I
can't really tell what happens on either side of the road in the steepest
condition. I don't know if the sidewalk requirement is actually best.
Actually, this street section requires a 10' section behind the curb that is
on a .02 slope or 2" or so in rise from the top of curb whether sidewalk is
built or not. That is a typical section that is going to be constructed. We
intend not to bond for these sidewalks. Because of these lots being so
large we do not want the land owners to come out there and have to build
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 21
a sidewalk. We considered that into our Engineering costs and our
construction costs and we intend to build the sidewalks as well. When the
Final Plat comes through it will be a complete product. We understand
that there will be some collateral damage from some of the construction of
the houses but we are going to in our protective covenants set up so that
construction access to each one of the lots will be at where they intend to
build their driveway so that when they do damage or tear out the sidewalk
from doing construction at least it will be in an area where drives will
ultimately be located. We have no problem building those sidewalks. We
really don't have to in certain parts of it but we feel like it is a benefit to
the whole thing so I have no qualms whatsoever doing it.
Anthes: I was kind of leaning towards the side of not having to build them frankly,
because of the amount of slope. If we require the full 10' to be leveled on
either side of the road that is one thing, although I believe we will be
looking at options to that on our hillside ordinance. You are ahead of that
and you are in the Planning Area, I realize. I wasn't at Subdivision when
all of this went back and forth, but it seems to me that that is an awfully
wide section in some very steep places I'm looking at. Around the east
side of Lot 17 and on the east side of the property all together and then on
Roadway 1 between Lots 19 and 4 and 3 and 18 you have got a lot of
topography.
Clark:
That is the exact reason we asked the City Engineer to go out and work
with the developer to see what they recommended. We had the same
comments and then they did and this is what they recommended.
Anthes: Without seeing the sections drawn it is really difficult to tell but it looks
very steep.
Pate:
The only thing I can say is that both staff and the Planning Commission is
bound by our current city ordinances and whatever those street sections
are, that is what we have. That is one of the reasons we are looking at a
hillside protection ordinance. Though it wouldn't necessarily apply
outside of the city, if this were in the City of Fayetteville we would also
require the same standards, because that is what our current ordinances
require. I think we are all bound to follow the law and the Planning
Commission is required to vote to approve or deny plans based on the
same law that the developer is following to design that project. I think
that is important to keep in mind.
Anthes: Correct me if I'm wrong, we can allow a 24' street section with a sidewalk
on one side?
Pate: That is correct.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 22
Anthes:
Ostner:
Pate:
Vaught:
Pate:
Anthes:
Myres:
Ostner:
Roll Call:
Thomas:
So one could entertain the idea of a motion that would allow a 24' street
with a sidewalk on one side verses a 28' street with sidewalks on both
sides.
Condition number two says we are talking about Master Street Plan
sidewalks.
All streets designed within the City of Fayetteville and within one mile of
our Planning Area have to meet our Master Street Plan design
requirements. That is the cross section. Those numbers are typical based
on the trips generated. In this case, we do have three stub outs and we
would likely recommend that those stub outs be in an area where some
sort of connection at some point in the future, which typically generates
more than 300 vehicle trips per day. I think there is maybe potential for
one section to go to a 24' wide street. Of course, we have had that
discussion with the applicant and they designed it at a 28' wide section for
a reason.
Which street has the possibility of being reduced to 24'? Would that be
Roadway 3?
Correct.
It seems less of a steep topography than the other ones.
The applicant has gone through a great deal of trouble to work with staff
on the sidewalks and they have come to a solution to this problem and so I
think we need to accept his willingness to meet our requirements for a
sidewalk on both sides of the street.
There is a motion and a second. If there is no further discussion, I am
going to call for a vote.
Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1510 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 23
Ostner: The next item is PPL 05-1511, Lynnwood Estates. If we could have the
staff report please.
Gardner: This property contains 4.77 acres in northeast Fayetteville on the east side
of Crossover Road just north of Township Street. The applicant proposes
to develop a residential subdivision with six single family lots that would
be accessed through three shared driveways on Crossover Road. The
property was rezoned in April of this year from R -A to RSF-2. The site is
largely undeveloped and vegetated with dense tree canopy with one
existing single family dwelling on the southernmost lot. The property is
surrounded by single family detached homes on the north, south and east
with the existing St. John's Lutheran Church located to the west along
with the Hickory Park Subdivision that is currently under construction.
Staff has received comments from four adjacent property owners with two
of the owners not being opposed to single family development on the site
and two of the property owners objecting to the project stating property
value devaluation and increased traffic. One of the commenters
encourages that sewer lines crossing on the north side of Hardy Lane.
Water and sewer lines would be extended to serve the proposed
development and street right of way be dedicated to result in a 55' right of
way from the centerline of Crossover Road. The site is covered with 89%
tree canopy and of that, the project will preserve 71% of the canopy and
the required preservation is 25% so tree mitigation is not required. Staff
recommends approval of the project with 11 conditions of approval. Most
of the conditions are relatively standard. I just want to call your attention
to some of the conditions, number three is related to sidewalks and
requires that the applicant construct all driveways with 6' sidewalks
through the driveways at the Master Street Plan right of way. Grade the
project frontage along Crossover Road for 6' sidewalks. Provide a cost
estimate to the city for construction of remaining areas of 6' sidewalk.
Upon approval of a cost estimate by the city the applicant shall pay an
assessment to the city for fees in lieu of sidewalk construction. Condition
number seven, this is with regard to the safety of the vehicles pulling out
onto Crossover Road through the shared drives. It states that the houses
and the driveways shall be designed and built to provide adequate
driveway space for vehicles to turn around, ensuring that vehicles do not
have to back up onto Crossover Road. Building permits would be
reviewed to ensure that there is room for vehicles to turn around on the
driveways and leave the property in a forward motion instead of having to
back out.
Ostner: Is the applicant present? If you could please introduce yourself and give
us your presentation.
Hern: My name is Kip Hern with H2 Engineering representing Jerry and Lynn
Rogers Jones. This is a very low density, low impact subdivision that we
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 24
are proposing. The sewer, which is the majority of our construction
efforts, there are three options that we have to connect to sewer. We will
try to accommodate the property owner to the north, Mr. John Brown. We
have done some preliminary work in the field to see where the most
appropriate place to be at the high end. That has been a drive more than
anything for our sewer extension that we have been pursuing. If you have
any questions I will be happy to answer them.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Hern. At this point I will open it up to public comment.
This is PPL 05-1511. Seeing none, I will close it to the public and bring it
back to the Commission for comments or motions.
Pate:
Just to address a couple of the concerns from citizens that we have
received and that are in your packet. One was the widening of Hwy. 265.
Our Highway Department does have plans in this area to widen Hwy. 265
and that is one of the reasons that the Planning Commission has been
reviewing recently assessments for improvements along that, including a
sidewalk, so that those could all be coordinated at one time. Additionally,
as Mr. Hern noted, on at least two of the notices here, Mr. Brown,
regarding a sewer connection, and I think that they are working with him
to attempt, if possible, to connect that sewer to him I think the applicant
has been looking at all of these issues.
Ostner: I would like to compliment the applicant for taking these lots and facing
them to the street. I think it is important for the city to have houses facing
the street. A lot of things go wrong when we back houses up to streets.
Williams: I have been following this as it has gone through. I think there is one
existing home and then they are planning to build five additional homes, is
that correct?
Hem:
Yes Sir. There are currently three parcels that this project consists of.
One of the existing parcels does have an existing house which we have
designed to incorporate that into our first lot of the subdivision. That
existing driveway to the home will be removed and incorporated into a
common driveway that Lot 1 and 2 will share. We will sustain the three
curb cuts that are currently permissible.
Williams: Condition of approval number two needs to be altered. It says six single
family units. That should be five single family units. That calculated
should be $2,775 instead of $3,300.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 25
MOTION:
Allen:
I will move for approval of PPL 05-1511 subject to the eleven conditions
of approval with the change in condition number two from $3,300 to
$2,775.
Myres: Second.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1511 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 26
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is PPL 05-1432 for Sassafras Subdivision. If
we could have the staff report.
Morgan: Yes Sir. This property contains 9.17 acres. It is located west of Sassafras
Hill Road. The property is within the Planning Area and outside of our
one mile city limits therefore, county street standards shall be applied for
construction of one new street. They are requesting approval for creation
of eight single family lots on approximately one acre and these lots will
access a new street within the subdivision, which is shown at a 50' right of
way and a 24' street. The applicant proposes to stub the street out to the
western property line for future development and utilize a temporary cul-
de-sac in that location until such time as that street is extended to the west.
Water will be extended to serve the proposed development and individual
septic systems on each lot from the Washington County Health
Department. We have received several comments from surrounding
citizens with regard to the density. Our requirements for the Planning
Area requires a minimum lot size of 10,000 sq.ft. These proposed lots
have approximately an acre, which is about four times the size of the
minimum requirement in the Planning Area. At this time staff
recommends approval of this Preliminary Plat with a total of 14
conditions, of which, I have addressed most with regard to septic system
approvals, the temporary easement to the cul-de-sac on the west side of
the property and dedication in accordance with our Master Street Plan
requirements.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you could please introduce
yourself and give us your presentation.
Scott:
My name is Art Scott, I'm with Project Design Consultants. With me is
Mike McDonald representing the owner and the developer on the project.
We do have eight lots here with pretty close to a one acre minimum. We
request your approval and are here to answer any questions.
Ostner: At this point I will open it up to public comment. Would anyone like to
speak to PPL 05-1432 for Sassafras Subdivision? Seeing none, I will
close it to public comment and bring it back to the Commission for
discussion.
Clark: Staff, in Subdivision we talked about the back, did you extend that
property line or did you figure out who owns the property? There was a
50' easement.
Pate:
I don't think it is 100% resolved at this time but it should not really
something that should delay the subdivision of the property. Condition
number nine states that prior to filing the Final Plat ownership of the
northern 50' right of way easement shall be resolved. I think currently we
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 27
Clark:
Scott:
MOTION:
Clark:
have been working with the Assessor's office who has records indicating
one thing, the applicant's surveyors are indicating something else. Again,
I don't think it is crucial for the Preliminary Plat. At the time that we get
to Final Plat that is something that we definitely need to have resolved.
If you don't own it you are just going to extend the property lines?
Whatever the resolution is, we are going to do it.
I will make a motion that we approve PPL 05-1432 with the 14 conditions
as stated.
Myres: I will second.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Call the roll please.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1432 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 28
Ostner: The next item is PPL 05-1399 for Devonshire Glyn.
Morgan: The subject property contains 46.71 acres. It is located east of Legacy
Pointe Subdivision Phase IV and south of Persimmon Street, or the Master
Street Plan location of Persimmon Street. The property was recently
annexed and zoned RSF-4 last year in 2004. To the east of the property is
a Targe tract owned by the City of Fayetteville recently subdivided and
approved for development of the Wastewater Treatment Plant. The
development of this property will include construction of Persimmon
Street, which is a collector street on the Master Street Plan, from Legacy
Pointe to the intersection of Persimmon and 54th. With regard to
discussion with the applicant prior to and at Subdivision Committee, the
applicant has addressed several concerns with regard to connectivity
within the subdivision. The approved subdivision to the northeast of this
property, Sundance Meadows, has provided stub outs to the property and
the applicant has shown connectivity to those stub outs as well as the
existing right of way for Genevieve Avenue as requested by staff and the
Subdivision Committee. With that, some lots were added and also the
public property was enlarged to include a tract of land at the southwest
corner of the intersection of Persimmon and 54th and therefore, a total of
128 single family lots, one of which is proposed by the applicant to be
utilized for a club house, are requested for approval at this time. There are
also additional lots which are to be utilized for detention, for a total of 132
lots. With regard to modifications from Subdivision Committee, the
applicant also increased rights of way widths and street widths to provide
for either a 50' right of way with a 28' street or a 42' right of way with a
24' street in the configuration that was recommended by staff as well as
the Subdivision Committee. With regard to right of way dedication in
addition to those streets within the interior of the subdivision, they will
also be dedicating a 70' right of way for the length of Persimmon Street,
as well as 55' from the centerline of 54th Street where adjacent to the
subject property. 54th Street in this location is a principal arterial.
Parkland will be dedicated in addition with this subdivision of 2.48 acres
north of Persimmon Street. In addition, they will be paying fees in lieu in
the amount of $13,135. On site mitigation is recommended with regard to
tree preservation in the amount of 41 trees. Just to go over conditions of
approval, condition number one, Planning Commission determination of
off site street improvements. Staff recommends that 54th Street north of
the intersection with Persimmon north to Tackett be improved to a 20'
minimum width. In addition, staff recommends that 54th Street south of
the intersection of Persimmon Street to the southernmost portion of this
property be widened to a minimum 20' clear with 14' street from
centerline curb, gutter and storm drain. Condition two is Planning
Commission determination of adequate interior rights of way and street
design. As stated, the applicant has modified the plat since the time of
Subdivision Committee and is in compliance with all of staff's
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 29
recommendations. Therefore, we are recommending approval of the street
design. Condition three, Planning Commission determination of
appropriate street connectivity. Staff recommends a connection to the
proposed Ireland Drive and connectivity as shown with the connection to
Sundance Meadows and the "T" intersection of Genevieve. Therefore,
staff is in support of the proposed connectivity. With regard to additional
conditions, condition ten states that all existing structures shall be
removed or relocated to meet setback requirements prior to approval of the
Final Plat. There are several structures, I believe three existing homes, on
this large tract which would end up either in setbacks or on property lines
based on the proposed lot line layout. Therefore, staff is requesting that
those be removed or relocated. It was brought to our attention that there
was an existing house on Lot 1 which the applicant would prefer to keep
on the lot as shown. It would, however, be located in a building setback
and utility easement that will need to be addressed. I will address any
comments or questions that you may have.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and
give us your presentation.
Scott: I am Art Scott with Project Design Consultants here representing the
developer and here to answer any questions that you may have. We do
agree with all conditions with the exception of number ten. That lot, Lot
1, was not initially in this property. In our efforts to obtain easement or
right of way for Persimmon Street extension with the property owner to
the north, we could not get that done. It was just a situation that the two
people were too far apart. The developer has come in and put this house
under contract and wishes to keep it there. There is a renter in that house
and they do wish to keep that to help recoup some of their investment for
the right of way to get Persimmon in there. That house will be about 5'
off the property line so that would be a typical setback, and utility
easement setback in that one corner. We feel like there is enough room to
get utilities in there if we need to. We are extending sewer to that corner
and also any water or electric and gas, they should be able to get those in
there based on the width of that right of way.
Ostner: I am going to open it up to public comment if anyone would like to speak
to this Preliminary Plat please step forward.
Flang: My name is Mary Flang, I live at 5855 Tackett Drive. My concern is
mostly for water runoff. To explain where I am, I'm between 54th and
Double Springs. I'm north of their area of their development. Lots of
development is going back there. I am in direct route to Skull Creek. I
have a big pond that goes all the way up there. I have about a $400,000
house on five acres. The pond, the closest edge is probably not more than
10' from my home and it is a large pond that has a valley that goes back
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 30
and collects water when it was in it's natural state it rained and it would
fill up to a dam and go over. There was a mess where the water goes
under the road and into Skull Creek and it all comes from my pond. I am
afraid of letting all of this development happen behind me without some
kind of protection from them. I don't think this should be passed until we
have reached some kind of agreement that this won't flood my home, turn
me into a flood zone. A gentleman did come up to me in my driveway
and we talked about the pond and he suggested that possibly there was a
way to dig it out more and they would have some kind of pond that would
retain water and it would be released onto my property at a certain rate. I
need more assurance. I haven't heard from him since. That was about a
month ago. My concern is that that home is my retirement. Everything I
have is in that home and I have just spent a great deal of money updating it
so that I can sell it in the next year or two and retire. I am concerned
about that and the other thing I'm concerned about is we have got all of
this new development going and coming down 54th there are 10 or 12
homes on Tackett that are going to be bottle necked trying to get out on
54th to reach Hwy. 16. Is there any thought of putting a three way stop
there at 54th or something? That is where the bus lets out for Farmington.
There needs to be something, and they are building a road right now into
this new development that is emptying out onto 54th right behind Howard
Helms' home, which is that corner home. Those are my concerns. Thank
you.
Wonnacott: I am Melissa Wonnacott, I live at 655 N. Genevieve. She is my neighbor
to the west. Last year we had Sundance Meadows on the docket. I know
you probably haven't reviewed the minutes from June 14, 2004 about
Sundance Meadows but there were a couple of the Commissioners who
had said at that time that a large development should fix 54th Street and
that this one development of 25 homes was disproportional for him to fix
450' of 54th Street from the Owl Creek Bridge to Tackett. On June 28`h of
last year you all passed it giving him a 208' requirement to prepare. We
have now a 132 lot development going on the end of 54th Street and there
is still the smallest portion of the eroding road that is not being repaired by
this developer. My concern is, again, 54th Street. I am not against this
development. Development is going to happen. However, 54th Street is a
huge issue. It is not on the Master Street Plan so therefore, it is not slated
to be repaired. How they are going to divert I don't know. They also have
it going into Genevieve, which Genevieve, there are three multi -family
homes on Genevieve and there is a blind corner on Tackett and
Genevieve. Even though I know there are only four other homes around
the corner from me, I have to stop and make sure that no one is coming
and hope to god that they don't come around the corner so that I can turn
onto Genevieve. You are making this an outlet onto Genevieve so there is
another issue because they are not repairing Genevieve at all. They are
just doing it to the end of their property. As neighbors, we did sign
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 31
something last year when Sundance Meadows came up that we would all
like to fix 54th Street but now we also have Genevieve. I would hope that
the Commissioners will address our concerns from 2003 and 2004 and
consider that when you are voting to approve or disapprove this
development. Thank you.
Ostner: Is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak to this issue?
Seeing none, I will close it to public comment and bring it back to the
Commission. A couple of questions have been raised out of the local
residents, people who live nearby. I would like to ask staff if we can talk
about the drainage. I believe the first neighbor asked for some assurances.
If we could address that please.
O'Neal:
Scott:
I have reviewed the drainage report and there will not be an increase in the
runoff from their site. I am not able to find exactly where she is in relation
to this development so I am kind of at a loss on where exactly she is in
relation to this development.
We are releasing our water at a rate lower than predevelopment rate so it
will not increase. We do have two detention ponds on the north side. The
one on the middle western boundary that you see there will actually be
shared with that development to our west that Mr. Sloan is doing. We
have worked on that with his engineers. That will go through that pond
there and then we do have a detention pond in our northwest corner that
releases in that same location. I did meet with that neighbor on site at her
house and Charlie Sloan and I walked the neighborhood out there and it
was our opinion that we know we are releasing at a lower rate than it is
now but we felt like we could do something there to enlarge that pond, she
was having problems with her ceiling, we could take care of that also.
That is what we intend to do. We have just not had the opportunity to get
back with her since that time that I met with her on site.
Ostner: The other question that came up by the first neighbor was the intersection
suggesting or requesting a three way stop sign. Can the staff share any
information or any comments on that?
Pate: Would that be at Tackett and 54th?
Ostner: Yes.
Pate: 54th is slated on our Master Street Plan to be a collector street. That would
be a through street. I sincerely doubt that we would want to have a three
way stop. I know that Tackett does have a stop sign currently. The
improvements that are recommended and shown here on your plans also
really don't address our Master Street Plan where it kind of veers from this
area. I think in the future we will have to see a pretty major redesign of
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 32
this intersection. At the intersection currently of 54`h and Persimmon
where it jogs to the west, right now on the Master Street Plan 54th is
shown as a collector north of Persimmon. A principal arterial south of
Persimmon and then on the Master Street Plan shown in the maps on the
last page of your packet, it is a principal arterial where it veers off to the
east, which is currently planned for a northern connection. If that is the
case, that might potentially, a three way stop of some sort could occur.
Again, I think this intersection as a whole is going to take quite a bit of
work, when property on the north side when that develops, we will find
out exactly how that is going to work. That is really all that I can respond
to at this time.
Ostner: That is helpful. Is 54`h in the Master Street Plan that is slated to jog
eastward?
Pate: Correct.
Ostner: Is that area completely undeveloped at this time?
Pate: That is correct, to the north of Persimmon. I would mention that with the
development of this property and then with the subsequent development
potentially of the 35 acres that the City Council is currently looking at
selling, with the approval of the Mountain Development project tonight,
this will create an east/west connection from Double Springs Road all the
way east to Shiloh and the bypass. This will create, at least, a street
connection east/west that the city has been looking for for quite some
time. And it is in a relatively short amount of time. The city is currently
doing improvements to Broyles Road as well. The city built Broyles Road
south of Wedington down to Persimmon and that additional development
there has helped continue some of the street connectivity in that area.
South of Persimmon the city is also looking, as part of the Wastewater
Treatment Plant improvements, to construct about a mile of street south to
connect, which, again, would go further south into Farmington.
Additionally, Washington County and the City of Fayetteville are
collaborating currently in improving the streets down south of this area.
They are currently gravel and they will be paved soon. These are all
improvements in this area that have been a long time coming and have not
seen because the development has not been in that area. I think as your
vehicle trips increase you will see more and more improvements along this
area as well.
Ostner: The last comment or request I believe had to do with Genevieve Street.
Can you fill us in on any information there?
Pate: Certainly. Ms. Wonnacott was present with Sundance Meadows over the
several months that that was extended. The property you see on your plats
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 33
that this particular project is connecting to in the northeast is Sundance
Meadows. It is a 25 lot subdivision that is currently under construction, or
at least has approved construction plans. There are two street stub outs to
this particular piece of property. One is on the east, which is Sundance
Meadows, one to the north, which is Genevieve, is currently an
unimproved street or drive, that currently accesses those properties in that
area. Because it is a stub out, as you know, staff typically recommends a
stub out to that and if they should develop in the future then the street
would be extended up into that property in the future. I would mention,
again, with the rezoning, there is a certain limit that you can go with
improvements off site with a development. With 127 lots that is going to
create a lot of traffic. With off site improvements, this developer is
contributing quite a bit including improvements along 54"' with curb,
gutter, at least a 20' pavement section south of Persimmon. Improvements
north of Persimmon along 546 to create at least a 20' section and they
have shown actual design elements, which we were not able to see with a
25 lot subdivision. This developer has gone to the point of looking at how
that could be designed and constructed up to the 546 Street intersection.
Again, a lot of pieces of the puzzle are beginning to come together. We
did not recommend any improvements along Genevieve simply because
staff felt that most of the traffic, if that street is constructed, will go south
as opposed to north. There would be the likelihood that anyone living in
the subdivision would head south to Persimmon and then make their way
out onto improved streets, including to the neighborhood that is to the
north. They would benefit by that street stub out as well. So it would
potentially cut down vehicle trips going through that 54th and Tackett
intersection. That is one advantage that we saw. We felt that the street
improvements that you see there as recommended were appropriate for
this particular subdivision.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Pate. Commissioners?
Anthes: Jeremy, this stub out that goes north on Genevieve, that will be a blocked
stub out or will it connect to the existing dirt road at this point?
Pate: It will connect. There is not a strip between those two.
Anthes: I understand that at Subdivision this connection was made, and I think it is
a good connection. I am also really aware of the problems at Tackett and
Genevieve. We have had these neighbors here repeatedly. We have been
out there in the van and we know that it is really a horrible intersection. Is
staff not recommending any work on that intersection at all because of the
costs being disproportional? I know it is off site.
Pate: Which intersection?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 34
Anthes: Genevieve and Tackett. It is just so bad out there.
Pate:
Not to Genevieve and Tackett. Again, this development north, Sundance
Meadows, is making improvements to both drainage and radius
improvements to that intersection of Tackett and 54`n
Anthes: But not the other direction?
Pate: Correct. There is no outlet street the other direction. Everyone going in
and out has to go east. There is no public street to go west onto.
Anthes: The time line is just way out there for anything to happen. If there is
further development something would happen?
Pate:
I think it could be relative. Two years ago a lot of us would not have
imagined that Persimmon Street would be constructed from Double
Springs Road to Shiloh in a matter of a few years. I think this property
was in the county a year ago and not really looking at development. I
believe there were chicken houses and farm animals on the property.
There is potential for redevelopment of properties to the north should they
sell. We just felt that the improvements that we are recommending would
benefit the community and the city as a whole. Granted, improvements
along Genevieve would improve the quality of life for a few residents
there but again, we have to look at what proportion of those would benefit
and impact the city infrastructure as a whole.
Anthes: I have another issue about connectivity on the south side of this site. I am
looking at C3.1, it looks like you have chose to extend Lexford Lane to the
south rather than Tipperary and Colony Terrace. Would there be any
advantage to extending Tipperary Lane as our connection to the south and
removing the stub out of Lexford? I believe that you could get the same
number of lots or maybe an additional lot in doing that and relieve that
elbow. The question is to staff because I don't know if you discussed it
and there was some reason made one way or the other.
Pate: I have personally not discussed it, no.
Anthes: I will direct that question to you Mr. Scott.
Scott: You are asking if we can move the stub out on Lexford to the west to
Tipperary?
Anthes: Yes, and then you would no longer need that elbow.
Scott: I don't see any problem with that at all, we can do that.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 35
Anthes: That would be great. I appreciate that you have several lots, 121, 132,
131, 4, 3, and 2 all facing onto Persimmon. Can you tell me what is going
to happen on the remainder of lots with side yards facing Persimmon?
What can we expect on Persimmon?
Scott:
The developer has been discussing that with myself and staff and we feel
like we can face those two Persimmon and access off of the other streets
as sort of a side load situation. If you want to move that we will agree to
that, with the exception of the ones that don't have side streets I think it
is Lot 3 and Lot 132. That will minimize that. Those will be facing that
way anyway.
Anthes: Thank you very much.
Pate:
MOTION:
If those changes are made with the recommendation, as I anticipate, with
the connection being to the south, we would also recommend that the
street widths, right now there is a 42' wide right of way with a 24' wide
street as being the non through street so those need to flip flop.
Anthes: I move for approval of PPL 05-1399 with the following conditions:
Condition of approval number one to endorse staff's recommendations for
the improvements. Condition number two, to again, endorse staff's
comments as modified from Subdivision. Condition number three, the
same way. Do we need to alter condition ten because of that Lot 1 for that
house to remain?
O'Neal:
Anthes:
O'Neal:
Pate:
There is one issue with that lot. The applicant is proposing a 12" water
line through that location. The line could be realigned and then we could
process a waiver.
Would that waiver have to come back to this Committee or we can just
state that we would approve it now?
I believe we could approve it now with the condition that the water line be
realigned to the north side of Persimmon. It is going to put a restraint on
right of way along Persimmon on the north side and the parkland
dedication area which may reduce that land that they are dedicating.
I would mention too that this is not a typical scenario that the Planning
Staff would recommend, that the setback requirements be at least 5' off of
the right of way line, utility easements would be potentially jeopardized in
that area. I understand the applicant's desire to keep that structure, I don't
know if there is a way to move that onto the lot that he is creating. That is
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 36
not something typically that the Planning Staff would recommend,
creating a non -conforming structure with a brand new development.
Anthes: I am having difficulty seeing it, is it the one that is placed to the far, far
north of that lot?
Scott: It is near the jog in 54th Street.
Anthes: Ok, I'm afraid that I am going to have to leave the condition of approval
number ten in now that I understand the conditions.
Pate:
We would be happy to work through the construction plans if there is a
way to, I know that this is a really tight area here with the property owner
to the north, if there is a way that we can fit the improvements in and
potentially create this lot before Final Plat, we are more than happy to
work on that. I don't know that there are any guarantees of course.
Anthes: If you would please. When you talk about the 12" water line, parkland
dedication, and that intersection. That is really restricted there and so I
think that I prefer to just leave the condition as stated.
Scott:
We do have a 20' UE on the north side of Persimmon at the park I don't
think we would need anymore property than that in the parkland. I don't
think that we would impact the parkland anymore than we would with the
typical easement as shown. That is probably the only thing different.
Anthes: Then can you just take our comments regarding the structures facing
Persimmon Drive and the Lexford and Tipperary Lane as part of the
motion or do you need us to write something out?
Vaught: I have a question on that. We can't necessarily require them to face those
houses toward Persimmon can we?
Pate: That is correct.
Anthes: Ok, it is just comments then, not part of the motion. Do I have that
covered Mr. Williams?
Williams: As well as it can be I think.
Ostner: I have a suggested amendment for the motioner, on Condition Ten, what if
it read all existing structures shall be removed or relocated to meet setback
requirements prior to approval of Final Plat unless staff is otherwise
satisfied with attempts that the developer has made? Meaning if
Engineering has been satisfied, if Planning feels secure in the methods
they are trying to go around that house.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 37
Pate:
It would take more than that. It would take the Board of Adjustment to
approve a variance as well for setback requirements because it is creating
a non -conforming structure. I think to wrap it all into one it might be
better to leave it at that and it might be better if we get back to this at the
time of Final Plat and it has not been resolved we will have to make that
decision. Either a variance will be issued by the Board of Adjustment,
which this body cannot approve or deny or control in that manner.
Ostner: I do not have to offer that if it is not worth you to go through that extra
trouble.
Scott: We don't mind doing that. This is an important structure. We will come
back to that if we need to.
Ostner:
Anthes:
Williams:
My amendment would just add on unless staff is otherwise satisfied with
the requirements.
I don't understand why that is needed.
That qualifies it so that if something can be worked out it doesn't have to
be brought back to you to change the conditions. These conditions, as
they are stated, says it is gone.
Ostner: If staff cannot be satisfied, then he would have to remove it.
Anthes: Can we add that as part of the motion?
Williams: Yes.
Myres: I will second the amendment and the motion.
Pate: The amendment to the stub out as shown on the plans currently do not
purport with what the motioner is looking for with the stub out to the
south.
Anthes: That is what I was asking about whether those comments needed to be
stated as part of that. We would be adding condition of approval number
23 to state that street connectivity will be met by a stub out to the south of
Tipperary and that the street section would be the 28' street as required by
the Master Street Plan. The other one goes away and Lexford becomes
24'.
Osmer: Is that amenable Mr. Scott?
Scott: Yes it is.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 38
Clark:
I am not going to say a word about another stub out. I guess I need to
apologize to the neighbors out there because the intersection of Tackett
and Genevieve is terrible. It has been terrible for a very long time and in
Subdivision we were so focused on getting that connectivity into that
subdivision that I just didn't look harder. I honestly didn't look further to
the north and notice that intersection. I don't know that this development
could have been held responsible for it because we are holding them
responsible for cleaning up a lot on 54`h Street. For the record, I think that
we need to be very cautious when we are looking at things out there
because that intersection of Tackett and Genevieve is horrible. I don't
know that we could have done anything at Subdivision or Planning
Commission to relieve that but please know that we are still looking at it.
It just slipped by this time.
Ostner: On that intersection of Tackett and Genevieve, is there any other relief
such as through traffic calming through a separate system that the Police
Department is helping manage that they might apply for that would help
relieve that dangerous situation?
Pate:
I guess honestly, it would take an evaluation of what exactly the problems
were that create the dangerous situation. If it is speed or if it is just a
turning radius or if it just sight lines. I'm honestly not aware.
Ostner: I'm pretty sure it is all three. People come way too fast, people are trying
to turn and no one can see.
Scott: The simple solution might be to just barricade it until that area up there is
developed similar to the other stub outs.
Anthes: That is what my question to staff was initially. I didn't understand
whether at the end of that paved section that it would be blocked
temporarily until the other street was improved. Is that something that we
can even do?
Pate:
We don't typically block street rights of way from other access points. I
suppose the Council could look at that as some sort of measure to inhibit
vehicles traveling north. Honestly, I still believe that traveling south will
actually benefit these neighbors. They won't have to go through the
intersection of Genevieve and Tackett any longer. They will go south and
be on a collector street eventually. Our recommendation would be to have
an open access point.
Anthes: That makes them to not have to make that turn at Tackett and 54th either,
they would have another way out. That makes sense.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 39
Vaught: To the north they also enter the new subdivision that will have city streets.
I imagine if they are going to go north that they will probably take the
newer streets instead of the stub out onto the substandard street and bad
turn. They are probably going to go through the new neighborhood. That
has a better intersection and connects.
Ostner: Do we have further discussion? Would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1399 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 40
Ostner: Our next item is PPL 05-1528 for Laureate Fields.
Pate:
Almost a year ago the Planning Commission granted approval for a
subdivision in much the same manner on this property. The only thing
really that has changed since that time is the number of lots and some of
the lot configurations. The property contains 73 acres located west of
Deane Solomon Road and south of West Salem Road, north of Crystal
Springs Phase III. Properties to the west are vacant and to the south are
currently under development with a subdivision. Lot IV of the
springwoods C-PZD is adjacent to the east with a single intervening
property between this particular parcel and that at Deane Solomon Road.
The frontage and primary access point currently would be West Salem
Road, although, the applicant is showing a round about and obvious
entrance feature into the subdivision located to the southeast of the site
once that street connection can be made. Another access point is also
south from Crystal Springs Phase III and that is a connection to the south
in that area. Two other stub outs are proposed to the west, one is a
collector street, and the other is a local street to connect to the property to
the northwest. The approval in 2004 granted this developer with approval
for 176 single family lots. Since that time, construction plans have been
submitted and reviewed as far as what size of lots are for sale in this area.
Subsequent to that, there was a revisit of the plan that was proposed and
this yielded 211 single family lots with primarily lot line adjustments
within the Preliminary Plat, making lots smaller, still in conformance with
the RSF-4 zoning district, but also with the addition of lots in the area that
was formerly approved as a park area and was approved by resolution and
contracted with the City Council prior to the Planning Commission
approval of the project. The developer and the applicant have been
working with the Parks Staff, much like we saw Mountain Ranch
development. They are proposing a larger area of parkland in this area
that would also serve this neighborhood. It is property to the east that you
have seen as a Concept Plat by the name of Park West. That is to the
northeast of this property. The applicant, as I mentioned, is proposing
very few changes with the exception of some realignment of some utilities
and some connections to individual lots and the total of 211 lots. The
Planning Commission approved this plan in August and staff is
recommending approval of PPL 05-1528 with 16 conditions of approval.
Most of which you saw August 23, 2004. Obviously, the biggest change
is the Planning Commission determination of parkland dedication. The
Parks and Recreation Board did review the current proposal and voted to
accept the land dedication of 5.064 acres, which is an amount greater than
what was previously approved at three acres. This would be located off
site on property also owned by the developer and planned for a larger park
area. As I mentioned, in the Park West area. That specific park location is
again, still being worked out with Parks Staff and the developer and will
be deeded to the City of Fayetteville prior to signing the Final Plat. A
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 41
couple of other changes that have occurred, Lots 146 and 147 are rather
small lots at the northeast corner. Staff is concerned about access to these
particular lots. West Salem Road is a collector street on the Master Street
Plan. Staff feels that either a Planning Commission determination of lot
arrangement as it relates to safe ingress and egress to these particular lots
is appropriate because of the situation so close to that intersection. I
believe everything else comes from the approval of the last Preliminary
Plat with the 364 2" caliper trees being planted on site as requested by the
developer. I believe one request at the Subdivision Committee meeting
was to show a tree preservation plan on this very plat that you have in
hand. The only trees located on this site, there are some small areas along
the western boundary that are all fence row trees, along the southern
boundary, some of which are located along Crystal Springs Phase III,
which is under construction, and then following the fence line up to the
eastern boundary up to the larger detention pond. With that, staff is
recommending approval. We do have signed conditions of approval from
the applicant as well.
Ostner: Is the applicant present? If you could please introduce yourself and give
us your presentation.
Milholland: I'm Melvin Milholland with Milholland Engineering, representing the
owner and developer. The developer did sign the conditions that the staff
recommended for approval without any exceptions. Basically, all this is is
a previous subdivision that was approved. No streets or water or sewer
was changed. The alignment will stay the same. It is basically moving
some lots over. The lots on the northern end were very large, like 110' or
115' wide, we moved those in. The small park area that they had through
an agreement with the Parks Board accepting it, we are moving it to a trail
head on another piece of property that the same developer has. They liked
it better, it is a trail head that will go south/north and also east/west in Park
West. We respectfully request that you approve this. There are not a lot
of changes. It is mostly lot line adjustments. The lots are still large there,
they are 90' or 95' wide. The small lots on the south end were not
changed, they left the same. The park that was there was made into lots
with the existing streets that were approved before. If you have any
questions I will be happy to answer them.
Ostner: Would anyone from the public like to speak to this PPL 05-1528? Seeing
none, I will close it to public comment and bring it back to the
Commission for comments and questions.
Vaught: Staff, what happens if Park West doesn't happen with the park land
dedication?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 42
Pate: There still has to be prior to Final Plat, that amount of parkland dedicated
and received by Warranty Deed prior to signing Final Plat. Currently the
applicant, developer, is under contract by resolution with the City Council.
This will still have to go forward with the City Council. The particular
requirements for the park land dedication, because, again, he did enter into
contract with the City Council. But, again, prior to Final Plat approval,
pursuant to our city ordinances, they would have to have dedication of that
parkland. Again, with your approval of that request.
Vaught: If Park West doesn't happen by Final Plat he will have to dedicate five
acres from that tract across the street?
Pate: Correct. It is very likely that that development will not happen by that
time. It may be in process but it will not have developed. Essentially,
what the applicant and their engineers and Parks Staff are working out
now is walking the property and finding the best location and essentially
taking a survey of the parcel of land that would be appropriate for that.
Anthes: I went back and was trying to remember, I remember we had a lot of
discussion and debate about this subdivision at the time that it came
through the first time and I believe there were a lot of concessions made
on both sides with connectivity to the west, we added a stub out that
wasn't there originally, but I believe that we also accepted some things
that we were less interested in because we were so excited about getting
this park and the roundabout and the connection. With the addition of 35
lots to the original plat some of those questions come back up again. One
of those is the north/south connector of William Blake and Herman
Melville Road to tie them together instead of having them be separated. I
feel like when we add that extra density, becomes a little more important
than it was originally. The other thing I'm concerned about, I agree with
staff about those lots on the far north, I am thinking about those lots and
then how those driveways have to access those streets right at the
intersection and it almost seems to me like those two small lots and the
one just to the south could be combined into two lots with a division to the
north/south and the western -most lot could be accessed off of Longfellow
Parkway as far south to the lot as possible and that the lot to the east could
be accessed off of this road, Salem Road, as far east as possible away from
the intersection. That may help that condition a little bit. There are a lot
of adjoining streets that I think are fantastic, that helps along the south side
of the development.
Ostner: There are a lot of changes between this one and the one we saw a year
ago. I have another question for staff about these looped streets. We
basically have two loops until the stub outs get connected or built. What
are our limits for looped streets? Are there any?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 43
Pate: We don't have any maximum number of units. A PZD has a maximum of
80 units on a looped private street. Public streets, we intend those to
connect and provide that disbursement of traffic in as many ways as
possible.
Ostner: Thank you. If I could ask for a Subdivision Committee report.
Clark: At Subdivision we were a little handicapped in that we had this large plat
blown up but two different sections of it and it was impossible to overlay
them. Basically, we were told that it was basically the same project but
just without the lots for the park and the configuration of the streets had
already been approved. I may be making this up, but I didn't feel like
there was much latitude in terms of changing that. Although, it was
coming back through as a new Preliminary Plat. That is my recollection.
Honestly, one of my comments at Subdivision was we couldn't really
make heads or tails of it. This is by far the clearest picture of it we have
had. I do remember this coming through now that I see it. I do remember
the park being one of the reasons we made some concessions a year ago.
Trumbo: How many lots are we picking up?
Milholland: If my memory serves me right, there were 177 lots the first time and there
are 211 now so that is about 34 and that is including the park.
Trumbo: You are now donating how many acres to the park?
Milholland: The requirement as required by the Parks Board, it is five acres. We only
were required four before. Now we are required five at a location where
the Parks Board desires for a trail head in a nicer location with a lot more
area.
Anthes: Isn't the requirement for the parkland dedication increased for the amount
of increased lots? The additional land that we are asking for is
commensurate with the 35 more lots?
Pate:
Correct. The three acres that was originally approved was less than what
would have been required for the 177 lots. The contract and resolution
with the City Council is that they would be adding improvements to that
park. You are exactly right, that is why the calculation is higher.
Ostner: Where is that land?
Milholland: It would be east of this property. Salem Road runs north/south on the east
side of this property a few hundred feet and it is approximately 'V4 mile to
the east. There is a subdivision you all approved to the east across that
Salem Road, I don't recall the name of it, but the bike path goes along the
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 44
Pate:
north side of that and the south side of the Park West property, we are
talking about the 120 acres, just as you go onto the Park West property
there is a row of trees and a creek that goes north. That is the trail head
right there. They requested land on both sides of the trees and down to the
property line and everything that they wanted they worked out with the
client.
On page 10.30 if you take a look at your map, if you look at the subject
property, just directly to the east of that is where this property is located,
and directly north of the Audubon lot within springwoods and
springwoods Lot 5 subdivision.
Anthes: Lots 146 and 147 can you tell me what the lot number is just south of that?
Pate: Itis 118.
Hoskins: My name is Tracy Hoskins, I'm the property owner. I want to clarify the
parks situation. What we had before with the prior development was just
over a two acre park and the agreement was to accept less property and we
would also do the improvements to the park. It would be a two plus acre
park improved and that is all that it would ever be. With this new concept
with Park West, which is directly to the east of this property along Hwy.
112 all the way over to Deane Solomon Road, right now the city has
absolutely no access to connect the west trail system to the east trail
system. The only way of getting that access is through my project, Park
West. What we decided was to get with the Parks Board and get that
connection there and that connection actually runs all the way over to
Laureate Fields and we have also provided other connections through
there for a trail system through Park West as well, or that is the intention.
All of these trails come to a particular area of Park West and we have
discussed at the southwest corner of the project where the park starts out
and as Park West develops, grows and grows and grows. It could
potentially be a very, very large park as opposed to the two acres that we
have now. As far as the street configuration of Laureate Fields, we went
through lots and lots of meetings before and as Commissioner Anthes said,
we had discussed that north/south connection, and I thought we all agreed
that the configuration that we have now is what was approved. Again, we
are adding 34 lots to the subdivision but a lot of it is due to the park area
and the roundabout area that will exit to Deane Solomon Road much
quicker. I don't know how the effect of the lots that are in the previous
park area will effect the traffic up in the north and west area of the overall
subdivision. Thank you.
Vaught: 1 believe there are 11 lots in the old park area so there are 24 lots picked
up. The majority of the added lots are in other places.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 45
Lack: Lots 146 and 147, can somebody tell me the square footage of those lots?
They are much smaller than the other lots so with reference to scale I'm
curious to know.
Pate:
Lack:
Pate:
Lot 146 is approximately 8,900 sq.ft., Lot 147 is approximately 8,300
sq.ft. That is just over the 8,000 minimum.
That was my question was to verify that they were compliant lots. Your
recommendation Mr. Pate was to access those lots to the south by a shared
access easement in that it would be appropriate to have a driveway off of a
collector street?
Staff feels that it would be inappropriate to have at least two driveways off
of these collector streets and if you had a choice, again, we are creating
these two brand new lots within the City of Fayetteville and accessing a
collector street. I thought it was more appropriate if these are going to be
this size of lot that they access at least one point as far down on this
north/south street as possible. You are exactly right, it would be within an
access easement, shared driveway.
Lack: Can you tell me how far back from the break of the intersection that that
would occur?
Pate: I would recommend that it be as far as possible as our code currently
allows, which I believe is 5' off of the property line to the south that that
driveway be located.
Lack:
Pate:
Another question that I had, looking at page 10.30, the overall one mile
aerial view, I see Gypsum Drive and I am trying to verify is that a Master
Street Plan street that we are not seeing in this development that is shown
should go through?
You did not have an opportunity to review this the first time as you were
not a Commissioner at that time. We did have significant discussions of
where this collector street that does traverse this property should be
located. Referencing that same page, the Master Street Plan collector
street, Gypsum Drive, does head east out of Crystal Springs Phase I and
continues into this property all the way to Deane Solomon Road. East of
Deane Solomon Road it has been removed with a Master Street Plan
amendment from across the wetlands and Audubon property there. It does
traverse this property. The applicant is indicating that connection from the
east with the roundabout and it would then follow south and is called
Stevenson Street. That is the requested alignment of this collector street.
That is also what was approved with the previous Preliminary Plat.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 46
O'Neal: In regards to Commissioner Lack's comment about access, I would also
like to point out that there is a sewer line extension that runs behind Lots
147 and 148. A back yard sewer is considered necessary in this location
so we would have to have a permanent access to that manhole in that rear
yard so there would have to be an access point at that location.
MOTION:
Anthes:
Vaught:
Ostner:
Clark:
Ostner:
Vaught:
Hoskins:
Anthes:
I will move for approval of PPL 05-1528 with the conditions as stated, as
staff has recommended on items one, two, revising condition number four
to state Lots 146 through 148 to be combined into two lots oriented
north/south, one set off Long Fellow and one off of Salem Road, or access
to Lots 146 and 147 by shared access agreement off of Long Fellow, at the
developer's option. An additional condition, number 17, to state that
William Blake Drive and Herman Melville Drive shall connect in a
north/south orientation.
Which roads were those?
The two on the western side that stop in the middle.
I second.
Is there further discussion?
I would like to ask the applicant about that last condition since that was
just brought up.
Commissioner Anthes, I appreciate your opinion on connecting those two
streets. I would ask that you reconsider that. We have already gone
through all of the engineering, the project is designed from a lot of input
from the previous time that this came before the Planning Commission. In
fact, you and I personally had discussions about this very project and
connectivity through the project. I ask that you reconsider that as we have
this project engineered and that will change our drainage and a lot of
things and postpone the project. Of course, we are trying to get blades in
the ground as soon as we possibly can. I don't think that the addition of
these lots in the park, and especially the location of these lots, is going to
have much effect on the traffic connecting that upper and lower half of the
subdivision. We have already got lots of connection east and west. In
fact, the subdivision has five or six points of connection to get in and out
of that and direct access to Deane Solomon Road. I would ask that you
reconsider that please.
The reason Mr. Hoskins why I stated that is that it is not just the 11 lots
that you are gaining in the park but you are also gaining another 20 lots by
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 47
the configuration in general. There are a total of 35 additional lots
proposed. Those lots are distributed evenly throughout the subdivision
and therefore, there is a higher density in both the north and south portions
than there was originally. The other thing is that, as we all know, that a lot
of these are stub -out connections and my concern is in the interim before
this builds out that we have added 35 additional lots with probably 70
extra residences or cars with all of the associated car trips per day to this
development and in my mind that necessitates a better flow through that
development than we originally needed. Particularly because a lot of these
are stubbed out.
Milholland: I understand the trips that you are talking about. I understand that the
parks is 11 or 12 right there at the roundabout which has a collector street
going right by them to the west and to the east and then there is also
connectivity to the north and south. Every lot on this subdivision as it
exists has at least three outs to it. That is the way it was approved before.
Now as far as the additional number of lots, if you took 34 less the 11 or
12, that leaves 22. Those 22 lots are the north part of this that you want to
connect to. If you add those lots to what is there now it is still less number
of lots than is south of that point that was approved before with the same
connectivity. It would not justify if you run the numbers because the
number of lots to the north the density is not near what it was to the south
before and it won't even be now. If you take the north three streets and
you add your 20 lots to it and count them up the lot numbers there are no
where near what they are on the south six streets. If it was adequate
before it should be adequate now.
Vaught: My only concern with that connection at that point is creating a very, very
long straight street which we have had lots of problems with before and I
do not like Longfellow either. I felt that was part of the reason for the
round about to help facilitate traffic and help break that up a little bit.
Maybe if there is another location to break that up so that isn't a straight
street. I know we have had lots of problems with developments that look
similar to this with very long, straight streets in other areas of town.
Ostner: I think to my recollection part of the problem with long streets is no
intersections. Intersections heighten awareness and they help calm things
but that is just part of my concerns over straight streets and we have plenty
of good intersections.
Anthes: I think I will let my motion stand and let the Commission decide which
way they want to vote.
Williams: I would recommend from a procedural point of view that there be a
motion to approve it as recommended by staff and then you placed an
amendment and place your amendment to the conditions that the staff has
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 48
recommended as opposed to making an all in one motion. I think from a
procedural point of view that that might be a little more clear way to do
that. You would just make one motion and then it would be seconded and
then you can make an amendment to your motion.
Anthes: I will rescind my original motion.
Hoskins: If it is ok, I would like to hear from Mr. Pate and Mr. O'Neal what their
opinions are of your motion and what you are asking for.
Anthes: I move to approve PPL 05-1528 with the 16 conditions as stated finding in
favor of staff comments on those conditions with the rewording of four to
reconfigure Lots 146, 147 and 148.
Clark: Second.
Anthes: I move to place condition seventeen to the motion which would provide
for a north/south connection between TS Elliott Place and Sanbourn
Street, either in line with Herman Melville Drive and William Blake or at
another intersection at the discretion of the developer.
Myres: I will second.
Ostner: Do we need to vote on these independently Mr. Williams?
Williams: You will vote on the amendment first.
Ostner: First we are going to vote on the amendment to the motion. Is there
further discussion on the amendment which deals with connecting those
two streets?
Vaught: 1 believe staff comments were requested.
Ostner: Mr. O'Neal and Mr. Pate?
O'Neal: Having not seen the proposed alignment I have no comment.
Trumbo: Is this a safety issue or aesthetics?
Hoskins: Traffic calming.
Anthes: More connectivity, more ways out, more trips generated by more lots
giving options.
Ostner: Do you have any comments Mr. Pate?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 49
Pate: I think on a couple of different levels I would agree with both parties. The
connection, we are always looking for more connectivity within
subdivisions because we like disbursement of that traffic through all sorts
of different streets, while I also feel for the developer. They do have
construction plans practically approved. All they have done is move some
lot lines and they are still falling well within their density for
development. My calculations indicate that they are still only developing
at 2.8 dwelling units per acre on this particular piece of property. We have
had conversations with the property owners to the west who are
potentially developing depending on the approved plans that have been
submitted to the Planning Commission. Although those could change, I
don't think this necessarily changes any stub outs to the west but it does
obviously change some of the layout within this subdivision. Honestly,
there is the opportunity to gain some lots I think, just looking very quickly
at the actual lot layout, there may be an additional lot that could be gained.
For the developer, probably the time spent engineering and designing
these plans with both water and sewer line connections and street
connections with regard to their development. I think it comes down to
weighing those options and if there is appropriate street connections
currently within the development. Obviously, the Planning Commission
thought there was with the number of 177 lots that were proposed at the
time. A lot of the connection discussion was a collector street at that time.
I believe staff's opinion at that time was that it should be more
east/westerly but with the addition of the round about I think it did bring a
component that was unique and helped alleviate a lot of traffic concerns
without causing bottle necks and traffic jams that we typically see. There
will be a lot of traffic generated from this development. It is 73 acres. It
is a lot of property to develop. I don't know if that gives you any more
advice.
Williams: Let me talk to you for just a second about the legal considerations you
should be giving on this. The Preliminary Plat that is before you has been
submitted by the applicant and this is it, not with the street connections. If
the applicant is not willing to change his plat then what you are doing is
turning the plat down. To do that you have to use one of the six reasons
that are given in our Unified Development Code for turning them down,
which says the Planning Commission may refuse to approve a Large Scale
Development for any of the following reasons: 1) The developed plan is
not submitted in accordance with the requirements of this session. 2) The
proposed development would violate a city ordinance or a state statute or
federal statute. 3) The developer refuses to dedicate the street right of
way, utility easements or drainage easements required by this chapter. I
don't think any of those so far have been met. There is one on traffic. 4)
The proposed development would create or compound a dangerous traffic
condition. For purposes of this section a dangerous traffic condition shall
be construed to mean a traffic condition in which the risk of accidents
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 50
Pate:
involving motor vehicles is significant due to factors such as, but not
limited to, high traffic volume, topography, or the nature of the traffic
pattern. 5) City water and sewer is not available. Which I think it is here.
6) The developer refuses to comply with the requirements for on site
development. That hasn't been a problem. Basically, if you would intend
to turn this down, item four would be the only item that you have available
to you. It does not say connectivity, it does not say how you would prefer
to have this subdivision designed because that is really up to the
developer. Unless it creates or compounds a dangerous traffic condition I
don't think that the Planning Commission has the right to turn this
Preliminary Plat down.
I would agree but I would also add though, that we often times require
developers to have off site improvements. If they disagree with those off
site improvements they can appeal to the City Council and go to the City
Council for a recommendation for final vote on that. There are many
Large Scale Developments and Preliminary Plats that we see with
conditions of approval placed upon it by the Planning Commission with
regard to connectivity or other street assessments and/or off site
improvements. I just want to make sure that that is clear as well that the
City Council can act and vote on this project as well should it be appealed.
I don't necessarily think that it is denying the project. It may be placing a
condition that the applicant is not agreeable to and therefore, we would go
one step forward in the process. I definitely agree with Mr. Williams in
that regard.
Williams: If the applicant does not agree with any condition then it would be
basically a denial.
Anthes: I certainly don't want to deny the project. That was certainly not my
intention, that is why I made a motion to approve it. The question here
though, you did state in number four about traffic, not only volume, but
the nature of the traffic pattern. I think the nature of the traffic pattern ties
directly to our 2010 guidelines and policies about connectivity. The
reason that it is brought into question at this point. We had talked about
this earlier and we had made some trade offs and some compromises that
we do in dialogue at Subdivision Committee and Planning Commission
with an applicant. We lost some of that trade off in the park situation and
we added lots. You can set all of that stuff aside because, as I understand
it, this is a new Preliminary Plat coming through and although we have a
lot of history with this applicant and this project, we are really reviewing it
for the first time because it is a new Preliminary Plat. What I do now is I
look at this as a new Preliminary Plat with this number of lots and this
configuration and I am concerned about the nature of the traffic pattern
and the connectivity issues based on the density.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 51
Vaught:
From my perspective, that connection isn't as important as the connection
to Deane Solomon Road and I don't think there is going to be a great
traffic pattern through here until we get that connection in Deane Solomon
Road to the adjoining property. I will vote against the amendment for that
reason. I think the situation is adequate and that most of the cars will exit
to the south to Deane Solomon. It is more than likely going to be an easier
way for them to get to where they are going so I will vote against the
amendment.
Jefcoat: I have one additional item in design. Immediately to the west of this
project there will be a north/south road approximately 100', one lot size
width in depth. The developer to the west will be developing a
north/south road so you will be putting two north/south roads with two lot
depths if you create a north/south connection at this point immediately to
the west one lot depth over there is going to be a road north/south because
of the way the development lays out. If you consider that, you are going
to have a north/south to the west 100' away.
Ostner: Do you have any drawings to show us?
Hoskins: I don't know if we have any drawings. We have a conceptual plat and it is
basically a mirror image of Laureate Fields, flip it over and that's what
you've got. I do want to disagree with Commissioner Anthes on one thing
as far as concessions or whatever. By unanimous vote the Parks Board
believes that the situation with the park is better now than it was with
Laureate Fields. It gives the opportunity of having a much, much larger
park with access to it with trails connected to it.
Anthes: I agree with that. I'm just saying that within this development boundary
that there were concessions made because of your willingness to improve
that park and to provide that amenity and it was part of the back and forth
discussion.
Hoskins: I agree. Again, I guess my concerns are the drainage, the sewer, the water,
the street, everything has been designed for this subdivision. In fact, we
didn't realize that it was coming back through as a Preliminary Plat until
we sat down at Subdivision Committee. We thought that we were going
through with a major modification. In fact, at first, we thought it could be
done administratively. Then I learned from Jeremy that he felt more
comfortable taking it back through the system. I actually thought that we
were asking for a modification to the subdivision and not a whole new
Preliminary Plat. We didn't learn that until Subdivision Committee.
Since this thing was approved in August of last year nobody has brought
up to connect those streets, even after we resubmitted with more lots it has
not been brought up until tonight. It has never been an issue.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 52
Ostner:
Allen:
Clark:
Ostner:
Anthes:
Vaught:
Williams:
Vaught:
Williams:
Anthes:
Williams:
I would like to remind everyone that this hasn't been passed, it hasn't been
half passed, it gets approved or denied tonight. It really makes no
difference that it has been partially through under a different name or
different format. It is almost more of a hindrance than a help because now
we have to look at everything and try to remember. I just want to remind
everyone that we have what is in front of us and that is all that we are
talking about tonight.
Just to verify if there were any comments made at Subdivision.
To me it was the drawings, I couldn't make heads or tails of this.
We currently have a motion to approve and we have an amendment. We
are going to vote on the amendment first if there is no further discussion. I
remind everyone that the amendment would be to connect...
The amendment is to provide connection between T.S. Elliott Place and
Sanbourn Street either in alignment with Herman Melville Drive and
William Blake or at an intermediate spot at the discretion of the developer.
A question on Mr William's comments about adding an amendment like
this. It confused me when you made your comments, we are voting on this
plat but we are adding a condition, so we are not, in effect, turning it
down, I guess that is what I am confused about.
I think it can be interpreted by the developer that you are turning his plat
down that he has proposed and therefore, in order to vote for this
amendment you need to determine, each person that votes for this
amendment that the way the plat is now would create or compound a
dangerous traffic condition.
With that perspective on it the developer then has a right to appeal that
condition, I guess they don't appeal the approval to City Council.
I would think that in this particular case that they could still appeal to the
City Council because to some extent this has been a denial of the plat that
they have submitted.
I believe you said it was the nature of the traffic pattern, not just
compound a dangerous traffic situation. There was language about the
traffic volume and the nature of the traffic.
Let me read it again. Item number four says "The proposed development
would create or compound a dangerous traffic condition. For purposes of
this section, a dangerous traffic condition shall be construed to mean a
traffic condition in which the risk of accidents involving motor vehicles is
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 53
significant due to factors such as, but not limited to, high traffic volume,
topography, or the nature of the traffic pattern."
Milholland: Did I understand you to say that if they vote on this amendment to the
motion, if they vote it down, they can still vote on the motion to approve
the plat?
Williams: Whichever way they vote on this amendment, they could still vote on the
underlying motion to approve the plat either as submitted, or as amended.
If they amend it without your consent then I think you have the right to
appeal that.
Milholland: They can vote the amendment down and approve it on the conditions of
staff?
Williams: That is correct.
Allen: I understand what we are voting on but are we to deal with this as though
we have never seen it before?
Ostner: Yes, this is the first time this is approved or denied. This is a new
Preliminary Plat.
Vaught: I just keep thinking about those terms. I do not construe this as
significantly creating a dangerous traffic condition. I think that it might
not be as nice as we want it or it might not have the connectivity that we
want but I don't know if it falls into the criteria. They are providing
connection off site. This is an internal flow issue that I don't think will
create a dangerous traffic condition.
Trumbo: When Commissioner Anthes says things I listen because she is a very
bright person and knows a lot more about design than I do. I am asking
her if it is her opinion that this will create a more dangerous situation. Is
that what your problem is?
Anthes: My problem is the traffic pattern and the extra lots and the additional
traffic and the fact that we have stub outs that are not connecting through
at this point in time. It all just kind of paints a picture. With the fact that
Engineering Staff has not studied it, we don't have traffic counts, I guess I
do not have the numerical back up for that based on statistics that would
be pulled from a traffic study. Part of this is my recollection of some
concerns that were voiced during the original Preliminary Plat. If it is a
matter of whether this has been engineered or not, I hate to cause any
hardship on the developer in that way and yet we have to look at this as
though it is a new Preliminary Plat. However, because we are where we
are with it we request these kinds of things all the time and it is slightly
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 54
altered and it is amenable and easy to do however, because the work has
been done and the opinion of the City Attorney that we are in a different
sort of state then I would be happy to pull my motion.
Williams: I can say that it really depends on the attitude and position of the
developer. Certainly you have requested other developers to make minor
changes and they have made them. As long as it is agreeable to them then
this section doesn't come into play because you are not turning them
down. You are working with them like you do in Subdivision and you do
here. It is only when the developer says "Wait a minute, this is it." That
is what alerts me to the fact that they might consider this as a rejection and
not something that you are just working with them. If you approve the
amendment, they don't have to do anything else, they can go with it. They
have the right to appeal if they wanted to. You are considering the plat
before you but I agree with Commissioner Anthes that you don't ignore
everything that happened in the past. That is not right. This has a history,
everybody knows it. It has been here and was looked at a lot. It goes both
ways. You made some concessions, on the other hand, you did approve it
in this configuration with fewer lots. That kind of cuts both ways. You are
looking at the way it is right now. That is what your approval or
disapproval will be on, as it is right now. You don't have to divorce
yourself from everything that went before.
Ostner: I guess part of the issue that I'm having is that all the time our staff places
conditions and the applicant steps forward and says they will agree to
everything but that. We have been talking for weeks and we would like
for you Commissioners to let us out of this condition. Staff is doing
exactly what you've been talking about, putting a condition on the
developer that they don't like. I guess I'm not seeing the difference.
Williams: One of those conditions could be some sort of off site improvement or
something. That is one of the specific things in here that gives you the
right to turn it down if they don't agree to off site improvements. If it is
something else in that that is going to result in turning down a Preliminary
Plat then it needs to be based on one of these six criteria within the
ordinance that is supposed to guide us and guide staff also.
Ostner: That makes some sense. I think these people on this far eastern edge on
Long Fellow, after this is built out with the drawing we have tonight, I
think they may often wonder why everyone in those loops drives down
their street. Why isn't there a connection so people can get around. These
people right at these intersections get all of the traffic from the loop. I am
not an engineer, I don't see where the line is drawn for danger. That is
where connectivity is great. It disburses, it gives people choices.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 55
Hoskins: Let's assume that we do connect those streets over there, how will that
change Longfellow Parkway? If you connect this loop to this loop how
will that effect Longfellow Parkway?
Ostner: People can go all the way to the south or the north and not get on
Longfellow. They wind up on Longfellow but it is not focused.
Hoskins: Again, you are going to have east/west connections and, as the engineers
have said, the development that is coming through right next door to this
has the connection all the way from Crystal Springs by Raven, which is on
the Master Street Plan.
Ostner: You have to understand that that is hard for us to take into account since
we don't have a drawing.
Williams: They have to decide this on what is actually presented tonight and we
don't know whether that development will ever come through or not.
Hoskins: Agreed. As far as the aggravation of the traffic, on the contrary, we are
actually helping the situation because again, we are improving Salem
Road all the way from Deane Solomon Road to the entrance of our
development. We are actually improving traffic situations out there.
Clark:
I am going to try to address what Mr. Hoskins asked, having two
north/south connections gives everybody in this subdivision an
opportunity to take an alternative route to the north other than Longfellow.
Yes, they cut over and go out eventually but now you are forcing every
single lot to make that north/south connection onto Longfellow and get out
of the subdivision. If you had another one you could funnel on each side.
Does that mean that I support or reject the amendment, I don't know. I
wish we could consider the western development that you mentioned
tonight but we can't because there are no plans for that. Once again, I
think that we should've talked this out a lot more thoroughly at
Subdivision. Trust me, next time when I see a plat that comes to us in the
condition that it did at Subdivision we won't even talk about it. That is
my interpretation, I feel like we didn't see a true representation of this and
had the opportunity to talk about it. That is partly our fault.
Anthes: I appreciate this dialogue, I think I have learned a lot about procedure and
appreciate Commissioners insight to it. I do think that a north/south
connection would be preferable into this subdivision and that it would
alleviate some congestion, particularly before full build out and I do think
that it would be more in keeping with our policy of connectivity but in the
interest of moving this forward I will pull my motion to amend.
Myres: I will withdraw my second.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 56
Ostner: We have a motion on the table to approve this Preliminary Plat without the
amendment. There was verbiage changed in number four and that still
holds. Do we have further discussion? Will you please call the roll
Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 05-1528 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 57
Ostner: Our next item is CUP 05-1526 for the Clinton House.
Gardner: The property is located at 930 California Drive adjacent to the southern
border of the University of Arkansas campus and is under the ownership
of the University. The home was the site of the former U.S. President Bill
Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton in 1975 where they lived while law
professors at the University of Arkansas. The applicant proposes to
operate a small museum and office out of the existing single family home.
The house has been used until recently as a single family home. The
property is zoned RMF -24 and contains approximately 0.37 acres. The site
is surrounded by the University of Arkansas campus to the north, single
family dwellings and Fayetteville School District facilities to the south and
mixed multi -family and single family dwellings to the east and the west.
As mentioned, the proposal is to operate a small museum and associated
office space in the existing house. The property would serve as a museum
for those who wish to see pictures and artifacts of the Clinton's lives in
Fayetteville and also serve as an office for one staff member. Once or
twice a month the house would serve as a small meeting facility for social
events. Staff does not anticipate that the size and function of the structure
as proposed would generate a great deal of traffic. At this time the
applicant does not propose any construction or improvements to parking
or access as it is anticipated that the existing driveway and garage have
suitable parking for the amount of traffic that would come to the facility.
The request is to allow a museum and office space in the existing single
family home, which is in an RMF -24 zoning district, which requires a
Conditional Use approval. Staff is in support of granting a Conditional
Use for the museum and office as it is in keeping with the surrounding
uses and will contribute to the mixed use of surrounding properties and
uses and will help preserve a piece of Fayetteville history associated with
former U.S. President Bill Clinton in a manner that will retain the
neighborhood character. Staff recommends relatively standard conditions
of approval related to this project with regard to parking and access as
noted in your staff report. I will be happy to answer any questions about
that.
Anthes: I will recuse from this item.
Ostner: Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and give us your
presentation.
Heifner: I am Marilyn Heifner. I am Executive Director of the Advertising and
Promotion Commission and I have with me Joseph Barnes who will be the
museum director. The property is being leased by the A&P Commission
from the University for a two year period so that we can see if this
museum is going to fly. At that time we have the option of purchasing the
property from the University. We feel that it will be successful but we are
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 58
still trying not to invest great deals of money into this until we can find out
if it actually will be successful. I would be happy to answer any questions
that you may have. I would ask from the staff recommendations on the
payment in lieu of the sidewalk, I guess I'm in a Catch 22 because the
University owns this property we don't have the ability to offer a Bill of
Assurance which would go with the property that that sidewalk be
constructed if it ever needs to be. As the Executive Director of the
Advertising & Promotion Commission I am not too keen on paying $630
for people to stand outside and take pictures of the front yard. If we could
have something in lieu of $630 it will make me very happy.
Ostner: At this point I will open up this Conditional Use Permit to the public. If
anyone would like to speak to this issue please step forward. Seeing none,
I will close it to public comment and bring it back to the Commission. I
will start by asking staff do we have any ability to change the $630 to a
point where the University could pay for it? I believe that was Ms.
Heifner's request to delay it.
Heifner: To delay it until we own it. I don't have the ability to promise you that the
University will pay the $630.
Ostner: You are the applicant tonight though.
Heffner: I will do whatever you want, the University owns property on one side and
then there is Stonecroft and I don't believe that the sidewalk will ever go
any place but I will be happy to do whatever you like.
Pate:
Just for everyone's knowledge, the Sidewalk Administrator recommended
the fee in lieu here because of Ms. Heifner's acknowledgement that there
is no sidewalk on this side of the street along this area of California Drive.
There is a sidewalk on the other side of the street that could use
improvement. That is exactly what these fees are utilized for are
sidewalks in the area to improve those. Theoretically it would be
improving access to this property either from bus trips or students or
anyone else wanting to visit this museum. As far as timing, we didn't
specifically give a length of time. Typically that is prior to building
permit, there is no building permit in this case so it would be prior to
Certificate of Zoning Compliance, which would give some time again, for
the applicant. I don't think there is anything pressing. That doesn't have
to happen in the next month or so. That is really just before they open
their business and begin everything. I don't know if that is something that
the applicant is agreeable to but it would be simply at the time that they
wanted to start their business.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 59
Clark: Can we require the University to put in city amenities like a sidewalk in
front of their property? This is technically owned by the University right
now.
Williams:
Pate:
Williams:
Pate:
Heifner:
Williams:
Clark:
Williams:
MOTION:
Clark:
Normally we can't require the University to do anything, to get a building
permit, to pay a sidewalk fee or to get a Conditional Use.
We have spoken with the applicant about that. That was exactly staff's
position. However, the property will not be owned by the University once
this operation goes into effect.
I think once the University no longer owns the property, that would be the
proper time for the A&P Commission with their request for Conditional
Use or rezoning or whatever you would do.
Again, that is exactly what we discussed with the applicant. They are
doing their due diligence to ensure that at the proper time when that land
transfer does occur that they will have everything in order to begin their
business.
It is my understand that if we operate it for two years as a museum then it
will be grand fathered in and we won't have to come for a Conditional
Use.
I don't think so.
Can we not amend this motion to say should this property revert to the
ownership of the A&P Commission then payment of $630 in lieu of would
be required?
I don't think you would be grand fathered in. It is something that we have
no control over until the A&P Commission purchases it. At that point, we
would then have control and I would think that we could probably demand
a Conditional Use. You probably want to be on record to have a
Conditional Use so you know everything is going to work before you buy
it so I don't have any problem with that. I would recommend that we not
make any decision on the sidewalk fee until the time that the A&P
Commission actually owns the property and then they can request a lesser
fee.
I will make the motion that we amend part of condition number four that
when the property reverts to the A&P Commission then the sidewalk fee
will be open for discussion. If anybody can afford it the A&P should be
able to. This is a motion to approve CUP 05-1526 with the verbiage as
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 60
provided by staff with the exception of number four which will read
"Should this facility revert to the ownership of the A&P, at that point we
will come back and discuss sidewalk fees."
Allen: Second.
Vaught: Staff, on on site parking, two will be in the driveway and two will be to
the side of the driveway, I guess we are not requiring improvements for
the parking spots in the dirt, is that correct? What can we do to the
University? I would think normally we would want something done.
Williams: Usually if there are five spaces we get to require landscape parking but I
don't think we should in this case since it is the University.
Gardner: In discussion with the applicant we discussed if there were five parking
spaces or greater that they would be required to come into conformance
with city parking ordinances and we discussed that. They weren't sure
what type of parking that they would need at this time and we agreed that
four spots would be the amount of cars that they would anticipate at the
most and we said if five or more cars are parked consistently at the
property then it would kick in where they would have to look at the
parking again.
Vaught: Really, there are two in the garage and two outside of the garage. The
drawing that we have here has two off the side of the driveway in the dirt.
Gardner: Correct.
Ostner: There is a motion and a second, is there further discussion? Will you call
the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 05-1526 was
approved by a vote of 7-1-0 with Commissioner Anthes abstaining.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 61
Ostner: Item number twelve is CUP 05-1527 for Anderson.
Morgan: The subject property is located at the corner of Salem Road where it dead
ends to the north and Fairfax Road. It contains approximately eight acres
and is zoned RSF-4, Residential Single Family, four units per acre. The
existing property is undeveloped and consists of a very grassy pasture with
large, mature trees and a creek that runs along the northern portion of the
property with associated floodway and floodplain. This eight acre
property is now one single family lot. It has well over the 8,000 sq.ft.
required for a single family development. However, it does not have the
70' required for lot width. This item was before the Board of Adjustment
on June 6`h when the applicant requested a variance of the lot width
requirement to allow for 60' of frontage. This was approved and
therefore, the applicant could request a permit for a single family dwelling
on this eight acre tract with 60' lot width. At this time the perspective
buyer of this tract would like to put a single family home on this property
but prior to requesting a building permit for this single family home would
like to request approval for an accessory structure to be placed on this
property. An accessory structure in this case is proposed at a 1,500 sq.ft.
storage unit, kind of a storage shed, in which mowers and a tractor to
maintain and upkeep the property will be stored prior to requesting
approval of the single family structure. The Unified Development Code
specifies that if an applicant would like to place an accessory structure on
a piece of property prior to the principal use a Conditional Use Permit is
required and that would need to be granted by the Planning Commission.
With regard to specifications for accessory structures, for an accessory
structure to be classified as accessory the size would need to be less than
50% of the total square feet of the principal structure. The applicant is
proposing a 2,500 sq.ft. home and therefore, staff has made a
recommendation that the maximum square feet of accessory structure be
1,225 sq.ft. I believe in the letter that was submitted to you earlier this
evening from the applicant, they are in agreement with complying with
that request. With regard to use, the use of an accessory structure will be
limited to the items used for the single family use as well as maintaining a
lot. You could not run a business out of that storage unit nor could you
keep or store any other equipment or supplies that are used for properties
other than this property. With regard to location, the applicant is
requesting that the location of the accessory structure be placed at the very
southeast corner of the property. This is very near the stub out where
Salem Road stubs out to the north into this property. The location, if you
look on page 12.14 of your staff report, they have located the structure not
only in the southeast corner of the lot but also outside of a potential
location of Salem Road extension as well as the setback off of that
collector street. Staff recommends that the accessory structure be located
behind or beside of the proposed home and the applicant is proposing the
home to be located more in the northwest corner of the lot outside of the
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 62
floodway and the floodplain. Staff finds that the location of the proposed
accessory structure so near the single family homes to the east and to the
south is inappropriate and as an accessory structure, they are usually
located beside or behind the principal structure and we find that a more
appropriate location would be more centrally located to the lot and
towards the proposed location of the home. Additionally, if Salem Road
were extended this building would be located alongside the street. Staff
recommends that it be relocated so that it is more typical of structures that
we typically see on single family lots and will retain it's accessory
appearance. We have addressed these recommendations in condition one
with regard to placement of the structure. Condition two refers to the
maximum size of that structure. A building permit shall not be issued on
the property which would violate this ordinance requirement. That
meaning that at the time a building permit is submitted for the single
family home it will need to be of such a size that the permitted accessory
structure is 49% or less than the total principal use. We are requesting that
the accessory structure be screened with can porous trees and shrubs to
buffer this metal building from the surrounding single family properties
which are located on all sides of this lot with the exception to the north.
One condition that was not addressed however, and it came up with the
last item, sidewalk fees. With every Conditional Use we are required to
evaluate whether we are to recommend construction of a sidewalk or
recommend a fee in lieu of sidewalk. This lot is located at the north stub
out of Salem Road and there is no street on which a sidewalk if not
already located, could be built. We are recommending, based on the
Sidewalk Administrator's recommendation, that money in lieu be paid for
the sidewalk in the amount of $630. We would recommend that because
the placement of an accessory structure on this property will not
necessarily create the demand for sidewalk in this area. However, a single
family home would, we would be comfortable placing a time frame on
that payment that at the time a building permit were submitted for a single
family home that that fee in lieu of sidewalk be paid at that time. We
would like to add that as a condition.
Anderson: My name is Lynn Anderson, I'm a realtor with Century 21. I represent the
applicants James and Sylvia Craven. They are in agreement with all of the
recommendations of the Planning Staff which are the specific placement
of the structure and the fee for the sidewalk. The applicants have asked
that I read a statement to you and address those issues. This is a very
beautiful piece of property. It is eight acres. It has some huge oak trees in
the center of the property. That is one of the reasons that we don't want to
locate the accessory structure close to the center. We want to maintain a
park like atmosphere. I understand the Planning Staff's concern that it not
be intrusive to the neighbors. That is a concern of the applicants too.
They do not want to cause any problems with property values by putting a
large accessory structure close. The land slopes from Salem down to the
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 63
creek with a pretty considerable slope. Where they are proposing to put
the accessory structure there is only one home that would be able to see it
from that point if they put it in the center all of the homes on the west side
and the south side would be able to see it because they are going to clean
out all of the underbrush and just leave the large trees and mow and just
make it into a park like area. The accessory structure in the center would
mar that view and it would just not look good to have it in the center. That
is why they want to put it into the corner area. Concerning Lot 59, if you
will look at the map that is attached to the back of the letter, the existing
privacy fence along the east side, all of these properties have 6' privacy
fences. They are deep backyards with large trees. They would never be
able to see the accessory building where we are proposing to put it. The
applicant is willing to build a privacy fence between them and Lot 59.
They aren't going to be able to see it very well anyway because it is the
side that their garage is on and they have a privacy fence that extends back
behind their house in the backyard. The applicants are willing to put a
privacy fence there so that they would have no view whatsoever of the
accessory structure. Another reason for not locating the accessory
structure close to the principal dwelling is this is an eight acre lot.
Normally you are talking about a small lot when you are talking about
putting an accessory structure behind or beside your principal dwelling.
They are having an architect draw up plans for their home. It is going to
be a very nice home and the architecture for the accessory structure and
the house will not match and would not look good together. If they put it
beside or behind their home it is really going to be in view of all of these
neighbors on the west and the south side and most of those do not have
privacy fences in their backyards. We really feel like we are willing to
comply with the setbacks of a future possible road through there. That is
not an issue. We will do that even though no one can tell us for sure
where that road is going to be, it might go straight, it might curve, it is a
drawing at this point from what I understand so we really don't know
where it would go if it would ever go there. They have no intention of
ever developing that property. They want to keep it beautiful and they
want to preserve the trees. That is their interest here. We just feel like it
would be such an undue burden on them to move it to the center and
basically ruin what they want to do with the property. They want to keep
it very beautiful. In regard to the sidewalk, there are sidewalks down both
sides of Salem all the way down the stub out as far as it goes. We just
don't feel like it is reasonable to ask them to pay the $630 fee for a
sidewalk that cannot be built. If and when Salem Road is ever extended,
we feel that would be the appropriate time to address the issue of a
sidewalk. As far as the road goes, there are sidewalks in excellent
condition and we feel like the single family home built on this property is
not going to increase the need of any further sidewalks whatsoever on this
property or coming down to this property. In conclusion, this property is
zoned RSF-4 and if the applicants do not purchase it it would leave it open
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 64
to development possibilities which would really mar the pristine beauty of
the place. They could come in there and put several homes in there rather
than just the single family home I thank you for your consideration of the
request. I have addressed all of the issues and would be happy to answer
any questions. Pertaining to the photograph that the staff took, the
photograph of the view from Lot 59 showing where the proposed location
of the structure is, it doesn't really show the slope. You can't really get an
idea of what the slope is, it looks like it is a straight view there but it isn't.
It slopes down. Like I said, we would put a privacy fence across that edge
and there would be no sight of the structure. It is an attractive structure, I
don't think you have the colored pictures that they propose to build this
building for. It could be any color that would be required to make it less
intrusive or less visible. I think that covers it. If there are any questions I
would be happy to answer them.
Ostner: At this point I would like to open this issue up to the public. If anyone
would like to speak to the Conditional Use Permit, CUP 05-1527, please
step forward. Seeing none, I will close it to public comment and bring it
back to the Commission.
Allen: I would like to ask Ms. Anderson the function of the accessory structure
please.
Anderson: The property at this point is rather overgrown and they want to keep it
very nice. The structure is simply to house mowing and their lawn care
equipment. They want to have a tractor in there and the equipment it takes
to maintain the property. That is all the accessory structure is for.
Allen: It seems more logical to me that it be nearer to the house rather than
walking eight acres to it.
Anderson: The reason they don't want to put it near the house it to make the property
look better. They want the property to look nice for everyone. They just
feel like that would be a much more attractive setting for an accessory
structure. If you saw the property you would understand because you
probably wouldn't notice it driving up where they want to put it,
especially if they put a privacy fence there. Whereas, as you look down
and across the property when you drive up if you put it in the center or if it
were near the house it would be there. It is a large structure because of
wanting to put the tractor and the equipment in it and we feel like it would
be more intrusive to the neighbors to put it closer to the house rather than
up in the corner where they want to put it.
Clark: How do you get to this property?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 65
Anderson:
Ostner:
Pate:
Ostner:
Pate:
Ostner:
Pate:
Ostner:
Clark:
Pate:
Clark:
Anderson:
Off of Wedington and you turn into Walnut Grove Subdivision and that is
Salem and you go all the way back.
Am I understanding this right that the only reason we are seeing this is
because the house is not built yet?
That is correct. An accessory structure is being constructed prior to the
principal structure, which on this lot would be a single family residence.
So in other words, if the situation were that they didn't want the shed at
this moment and they went ahead and built their house then they could
build their shed wherever they wanted and they wouldn't have to come for
a Conditional Use Permit? It is about the order more than the permission?
Since they want to build a shed first they are having to ask permission.
Correct. They would have to have a building permit, it would just fall
under setback requirements, we would ensure that it was less than 50% of
the overall square footage of the primary structure, it is the same
requirements that we have here, it just requires Planning Commission
approval.
But, at that point, if the house were already built there wouldn't be anyone
telling them where to put it?
Correct.
It would be to meet the safety guidelines. I just wanted to make that clear.
You get to the property from Salem so will there be a driveway or will
Salem continue through this property?
On the Master Street Plan Salem Road is shown to go north through the
property. Assessments have been taken from developers in this area for a
bridge over the creek there in this area. That is on the Master Street Plan.
I am just looking at the pictures, which I find to be very helpful and it
looks like Salem just stops. I commend your heartiness to be able to get to
the property.
I have a question for the staff. It was my understanding when we were
talking to you and the Engineers that there are no immediate plans
whatsoever to extend Salem, that would just depend on development
right? If someone is developing the property. They have no intention of
developing that property.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 66
Williams: At one point when I was on the City Council we had saved up enough
money to extend Salem, build a bridge across Hamestring and extend it all
the way up to Mt. Comfort and the two aldermen from that particular ward
had a ward meeting out in Salem Village with everybody out there and
they decided that they did not want that money, they didn't want that road,
they didn't want the bridge and we happily applied it to other roads in
other areas of town where people did want roads. I think the history there
is that the neighbors do not want to extend Salem across that creek. It
would be a very expensive proposition. We saved up two or three years
worth of capital improvement project money to put it into this project only
at the last second to have the neighbors say we don't want it. I am not
saying, it is on the Master Street Plan, it was not removed from the Master
Street Plan, but it is not real likely that it is going to go forward anytime
soon.
Ostner: When was this?
Williams: I think it was about 1996 when we thought we were going to be able to put
it through. It was always on the Master Street Plan and in our Capital
Improvements Project list and when it came time to build it the neighbors
said they didn't want it.
Vaught: On that, if we ever need another north/south road in that area that's our
road. I want to be a little leery of just saying we're not going to build it.
That is probably our only choice to go north/south there. Rupple Road, as
bad as it is, hopefully it will get improved to a decent standard in the
future. Other than that, it is Salem Road.
Anderson: We are willing to comply with the setbacks for a future road. At the same
time, if that were ever developed, the storage facility is easily removed. It
is not like a home. It would come down easily and wouldn't be an issue as
far as fronting the street or anything.
Vaught: In our ordinance we have nothing that specifies the placement of
accessory structures?
Pate: That is correct. I don't believe there is anything that specifies that it has to
be in the front or back of a structure. We typically just view them as
accessory.
Anthes: Suzanne, will you read your condition number seven?
Morgan: Staff recommends payment in lieu of sidewalk in the amount of $630 to be
paid at the time that a single family building permit is submitted.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 67
Williams: I know that we can request a sidewalk fee at the time of Conditional Use,
but you can also do it but I think it would be more appropriate to do it at
the time that a new structure is built, meaning a single family home, which
we don't have to have in here. It is in our ordinance, it is one of the five
things, including a Conditional Use when you get a sidewalk fee. I think it
is more appropriately tied to a new home than it would be to an accessory
structure. I don't know what I'm missing, can we just not tie it to the
building permit?
Pate:
Because it says with a Conditional Use we just recommend that we do tie
it to that building permit. Because one of the five criteria is that it has to
be due at the time of Conditional Use. A Certificate of Occupancy would
be issued for the accessory structure. We entirely agree with the City
Attorney's opinion though that it should be tied to the single family home.
That generates the use, not the accessory structure.
Ostner: It was seeming that way to me.
Vaught: My main problem is if Salem Road ever goes through and that is stuck on
one side and everything else is on the other. Is there a condition that we
can place to say if improvements are ever made to Salem Road that the
accessory structure will be moved an appropriate distance from the right
of way?
Williams: You would have to go across the street, it is already outside of the
setbacks.
Vaught: Yeah, but to be in a more appropriate location with the main structure on
the property instead of divided by a major street. That is my concern with
the location right now.
Williams: Once they have their main building they don't need a Conditional Use,
they can put the accessory structure wherever it is within the setbacks. It
is a timing issue.
Ostner: I would be more than happy to not look at this and have them go get their
building permit and build their house first and then put the shed where
they want it but tonight, since there is no house there I'm inclined to go
with staff's recommendation.
Craven: I'm Jim Craven, I'm the one that is trying to buy that piece of property and
improve that piece of property. If you would go there today that property
is very overgrown and it needs a lot of work done on it before we build
our home over there and get ready to move in there. In order to improve
the property and clean up the property I need a tractor and a brush hog and
lawn mowers and things over there and I can't take those things over there
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 68
and just let them sit out there in the open in that lot. That is the only
reason I want to put that building up prior to moving there. Like Lynn
said, we have no intention, there are 500 year old oak trees on that
property. If you were to go and look at it, you would be amazed. We
want to maintain that property not only for ourselves, but for the neighbors
around there. The place where we are proposing to put that structure there
is nobody that is going to be able to see that structure in that location,
including ourselves, but none of the neighbors either. If we put it out in
the middle of that property everybody is going to see it.
Ostner: Have you all considered a structure that would not require a building
permit that could shield your equipment from the elements and it would be
somewhat portable? It wouldn't have a footing, it wouldn't require a
permit.
Craven:
Ostner:
This building is not going to have a footing. It is a pole building where
they put poles down in the ground.
This building requires a building permit. Some structures don't. These
metal carports that people put in.
Craven: Those blow away when the wind blows.
Ostner: I'm just trying to find a solution.
Anthes: I'm having a hard time evaluating this just because I cannot see the
property well because it is so over grown. I'm looking at the drawing on
page 12.16 and it seems like you've overlaid it over an aerial where the
trees can sort of be seen through the city overlay and you can see some
topography there. That seems to lend some credence to the applicant's
argument about the fact that this will be tucked down lower and out of
visibility from these other properties. Did you take that into account when
you went out there. What were the criteria? Can you comment on the
topography issue in addition to the placement issue of the building?
Pate:
Our comments again, stem from the fact that it is an accessory structure.
We envision, based on our Master Street Plan, that a collector street could
be extended and this would front onto a collector street on one side and
potentially a structure be on the other. That is chiefly staff's concern, that
you would then have a metal shed with potential access directly onto a
collector street because it would be established before that collector street
was there. Of course, as many persons have mentioned tonight, that
would either take the city buying the property and developing it or another
developer doing that. Obviously, it is not the intent here. I think honestly,
it does come down to a question of timing. I agree with the applicant that
it is less visible than what it looks like on the site plan. These are
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 69
Vaught:
Pate:
MOTION:
Anthes:
Clark:
Anderson:
Clark:
Williams:
Anderson:
Williams:
Anderson:
Williams:
evidenced by the photos that you see, especially the one on page 12.19
where you see the 6' fence barely located in that general direction. I think
that is something to take into consideration in your decision. We did
include a condition that might make all of this a moot point, at the end of
condition five, should the property be subdivided, the accessory structure
shall at no time remain on an undeveloped lot without a principal structure
and the structure may be removed or relocated at the time of subdivision.
That could satisfy the concerns of the Commission because it could not be
located on a lot that the principal structure is not on.
If a street goes through there is that considered subdividing it?
Yes.
Taking that all into account, I am going to move for approval of CUP 05-
1527 striking condition of approval number one. Adding the condition
about the fee in lieu of $630 to be paid at the time of the single family
home building permit is requested.
I will second that.
Is this something like you can't get out of this regardless if you build a
single family home in Fayetteville? This is just cut and dry?
Yes.
Even without a Conditional Use this is still something when you build a
single family home. You always have your right if you feel like you are
not having any impact on the infrastructure of the city to come to the
Planning Commission to ask them to reduce that amount.
We would have to come at another time for that?
Yes. The $630 was the minimum amount for a lot with minimum frontage
what it would cost to put a sidewalk in front of it.
You can't even put a sidewalk here, that is what my objection is. There is
no place to put a sidewalk.
Right, if you had a place to put a sidewalk you might be required to place
a sidewalk. This is when there is no place to put a sidewalk then it is
money in lieu thereof.
Clark: If I can clarify, you pay the money, you don't put the sidewalk in.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 70
Vaught: Every time anyone builds a house they pay the money for the sidewalks.
Anderson: We are actually just contributing to the infrastructure with the $630?
Williams: A sidewalk will be built within the general area with that money. The
money goes into a special fund only for sidewalks. It is divided into four
quadrants.
Anthes: I would also like to add an eighth condition that we except the applicant's
drawing for the proposed privacy fence to screen the storage facility in the
location that they are proposing from the adjacent neighbor.
Clark: I will agree to that.
Ostner: We have a motion to approve. Is there further discussion?
Clark: We are allowing the petitioner to put the building where they want to put
it. They are going to screen it. You are going to pay money in lieu of a
sidewalk at the time of building permit for the new home.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 05-1527 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 71
Ostner: The next item is RZN 05-1523, if we could have the staff report please.
Fulcher: The subject property consists of a part of Lots 9 and 10 of Grandview
Heights Subdivision containing 0.24 acres. The property is located
between School Avenue and Hayden Avenue and is zoned RSF-4,
Residential Single Family, four units per acre. The surrounding properties
consist of a mix of single family residences, commercial and industrial
properties. The applicant intends to use the existing structure for a bail
bonds business. This use is classified under Use Unit 16 which is not a
permitted use or a Conditional Use in the RSF-4 zoning district. The
applicant proposes to rezone the property to C-2, Thoroughfare
Commercial. I should mention back on March 30`h a citizen did complain
regarding some signs on the property. Staff did go and investigate, that is
when we determined that there was a business along with signs on the
property. It wasn't allowable and a violation letter was mailed out as our
procedure calls for. The applicants came in to find out what they could do
to resolve the situation and that is when they submitted the rezoning
application to try to get the property rezoned to allow their bail bonds
business. The Fire Department has reviewed this request and it is
estimated that the response time from Fire Station #1 to this site would be
four minutes. The Police Department has reviewed this request and has
determined that the rezoning will not substantially alter the population
density nor will it create an undesirable increase on police services. The
future land use plan does designate this area for community commercial.
Staff finds that the proposed rezoning is consistent with land use planning
objectives and policies and is compatible with adjacent properties. The
proposed zoning will also support existing uses such as a county
con-ectional facility located just west of the subject property. Therefore,
staff is recommending in favor of this request. If you have any questions
please let me know.
Osmer: Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and give us your
presentation. t appreciate your patience for the past four hours.
Hartlerode: I am Chris Hartlerode and this is my wife. We would like to rezone it for
a bail bond company. I did not write a presentation.
Ostner: We will get back with you if we have any questions. At this point I will
open it up for public comment if anyone would like to speak to this
rezoning, RZN 05-1523 please step forward. Seeing none, I will close it
to public comment and bring it back to the Commission.
Anthes: Staff, what zoning designation is implied by the term "community
commercial"?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 72
Pate: I don't think any of the future land use designations really imply a specific
zoning designation and again, it is just kind of a guideline. That is
probably our more intensive one with the exception of industrially types of
uses. We have mixed use, we have office, office can fall in C-1, C-2, R-
0, a number of categories. We try to pick the most appropriate one.
Community Commercial tends to be at the nodes and in this case along
South School it is a strip of Community Commercial that is identified on
the future land use plan. C-2 generally falls within that category. It does
not typically fall within the mixed use categories.
Anthes: The second question is a matter of curb cuts. If this structure were
removed and the zoning was granted, how would that change access to
South School?
Pate:
It would likely not change it much. The lots here are relatively small for
commercial lots. It does not have a lot of depth. Most of the lots that we
are seeing be rezoned to C-2 in this area for bail bonds offices actually
have that. They can be amassed as one. They do have the benefit of
having Hayden Lane behind them so that could potentially be an off street
access for potential rear access for businesses as opposed to accessing
directly off of South School. I'm not sure if it would really change the
access, other than if it were a new development we would look at it to
ensure that it met requirements on that particular property. Pursuant to the
City Council's direction last Tuesday night with the approval of a zoning
district directly to the north for C-2 for a bail bonds office staff was
directed, and we offered information that we are currently gathering, we
are trying to look at this particular use unit and see if it is more appropriate
in a different section. We have been trying to look at all of our use units
established since the 1970's. It is sort of a daunting task. We may focus
in on one or two that are more prevalent right now. The Council did
express a particular interest in having this be a R-0 piece of property and
if we could fit that within R -O that might be something that could be
accommodated with a change in our current ordinances. However, we are
getting descriptions from the bail bonds offices about how many
customers per day, per week, how much traffic they generate in order to
get a better idea of is an R-0 zoning district along Elm Street or Green
Acres appropriate also for a bail bonds office. They will typically go
toward wherever the jail is but that is something that we have to take a
look at. I just wanted the Commission to know that staff is working on
that as well.
Ostner: We were wondering if we could possibly integrate a Conditional Use
within an R -O for that Use Unit.
Pate: That is definitely one of the options that we are looking at.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 73
Ostner: For tonight we are limited by the Use Units that we have.
MOTION:
Clark: Having said that, I will move that we approve RZN 05-1523.
Myres: Second.
Ostner: Is there discussion? Could you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 05-1523 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 74
Ostner: The last item on the agenda is RZN 05-1524 for Honda Pro. If we could
have the staff report please.
Morgan: This request is to rezone three lots, Lots 14, 15, and 16 of Parkers Plat of
Valley View Acres to C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial. The property is
located north of Popular Street and west of Shady Avenue, which runs
parallel to Gregg Avenue and the railroad tracks. This property is
currently leased by Seth McClelland of Honda Pro. Just a little bit of
background on this property, in 2002 Quality Auto Exchange was leasing
this property and requested a Certificate of Zoning Compliance for this
business in this location. Staff denied that request because that business,
similar to Honda Pro, was for auto sales and service repair and was not
appropriate or allowed in the R -O zoning district. Subsequently, we found
that the business was still operating in that location and issued a violation
notice after which, the business moved and was no longer located on the
lot. Just recently in March we received a complaint from the previous
lessee of the property stating that there was again a business on the
property that was for auto repair and similar to the previous business. The
city issued a violation notice and gave the owner 30 days to reply with no
compliance with the zoning regulations we issued a final notice. The
applicant came into our Planning offices and requested a rezoning in order
to allow a zoning that would allow the continuance of this building. In
discussions with the applicant, in determining what use would be
appropriate, or what zoning would be appropriate for the use that is
currently there, we were discussing the type of business which was being
run and currently there are some cars there on the property that are no
longer functional and are used for parts to repair other cars and vehicles.
This is a salvage business and would require an I-2 zoning. The applicant
stated that he would remove those cars and remove that salvage portion of
the business thereby classifying this as a Use Unit 17 for Automotive
Sales, Service and Repair. Therefore, the applicant is now requesting a C-
2, Thoroughfare Commercial zoning district on these three lots. Currently
the three lots are zoned R -O. The two most eastern lots are zoned R -O
and the western lot is zoned RSF-4. The applicant leases all three of these
properties and is currently operating on two of the properties, the two that
are zoned R -O. The request is to rezone all three to C-2. Staff finds that
the General Plan designates this area for residential use. It is adjacent to
an industrial zoning district and properties which are used for industrial
type businesses to the south however, we find that rezoning to C-2 would
encroach upon this neighborhood to the north and west of this property.
With regard to conformity, we feel that we could support a R -O zoning in
this area of which two properties have already been rezoned to R -O that
those businesses in that zoning district would be a more transitional use
also allowing for development of residential uses should those lots be
purchased. Therefore, we are recommending denial of the requested C-2
zoning.
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 75
Ostner:
McClelland:
Ostner:
Pate:
Ostner:
Pate:
Ostner:
Pate:
Would the applicant come forward?
My name is Seth McClelland. I opened the service center about a year
ago. To my knowledge I haven't disturbed anybody near me, I haven't
increased any traffic. I didn't think that this would ever be an issue
because I'm at the corner of Gregg Street which is four lane and Popular
Street, which is loaded with businesses on it and now there is a stop light
at the corner. I have Meeks Lumber north of me, Ridout and all of the
other companies, Don's Moving Company, and then one little house and
then me, then it is industrial from there on. As far as the salvage cars, two
of those cars were there when I got there and all we did was cover them up
with tarps. For our service customers, if you break a bolt you could go out
back and take it off of that car so that the customer wasn't inconvenienced.
It is not a problem to remove those cars. I don't make any money on those
cars. It was just simply for a customer's convenience if they needed
something small that nobody stocks. That's all that I have to say.
At this point I will open this up for pubic comment, seeing that there is no
public left we will close the public comment session and bring it back to
the Commission. I have a question for staff. Which Use Unit would their
current business fit into?
Without the salvage use it would fit into Use Unit 17.
Which zoning district is that allowed in?
C-2 is the lowest zoning district that that is allowed in. I believe it is also
allowed in industrial zoning as well.
Pretty much if this is not approved they have to stop business there is what
I'm trying to get to.
Yes. The previous user of the property was forced to relocate. It is the
same owner of the property. The previous user of the property was an
auto repair shop in similar nature and they were required to be removed
from the premises. They did relocate and the property owner leased the
property again to someone who was not complying with our zoning
ordinances
McClelland: The person who was there before me was a used car dealer. Whenever I
rented the property I started out only as a service center so the person that
was there before me did not do service. He only did automotive sales.
Vaught:
When was the C-2 to the north approved?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 76
Morgan: The property one removed to the north was approved in 1990 with a Bill
of Assurance. At the time the business was operating there and they
requested a C-2 zoning with a Bill of Assurance that was granted.
Vaught: Does it list what is in the Bill of Assurance?
Pate: I don't believe so. It is the moving company.
Vaught: What I have a hard time with is when you look at the map and you draw
on it 80% of the property that you see on this side of Gregg is Industrial
and there is a handful of RSF-4 zoning. There is C-2 stuck in it. I don't
know if R -O is appropriate. I obviously don't see RSF-4 is appropriate for
that corner. I would lean towards a more intense zoning. When they
issued a violation before they did not apply for a rezoning so we don't
know what may have happened at that time. The owner kind of bothers
me but I don't know if I should take that into consideration when applying
this request with this applicant who is trying to operate a business. I am
definitely looking at it and saying it should be some kind of commercial
zoning as it is surrounded by I-1. I'm surprised that there is RSF-4 even
left touching Popular Street when you drive through that area but that is
just my opinion.
Ostner: I would just like to clarify that the applicant tonight is Mr. McClelland but
the property owner benefits from the rezoning. It is his property that we
are rezoning.
Vaught: We are saying that they ran the business off prior and they didn't try to
rezone it. If it was turned down at that time for a list of reasons I would
understand that more. There is a history of non compliance with the
owner, not necessarily the applicant who probably wasn't informed of any
of this stuff when he leased the property. If they would have came
through a couple of years ago we probably would've had this same
conversation saying I know RSF-4 isn't appropriate here but R -O is a
buffer between a little bit of RSF-4 between two I-1 sections of property.
Myres: Why is a renter applying for a change in zoning and not the owner of the
property?
Pate: The applicant is acting as representative of the owner. That is perfectly
allowable as long as the owner understands and signs the application. I
have a little bit of trouble with the fact that the owner of this property has
been in violation before and turned around and leased the property to
another non -conforming business. I do not want to penalize the current
business that is on that property because they are a reputable business and
do a very good job at what they do. My inclination is to agree with staff
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 77
Pate:
Allen:
and to deny this request for a number of reasons. Although I don't
necessarily think that it is incompatible with the neighborhood as a whole.
I would just mention that staff did receive phone calls from area residents,
neighbors in this area, against this rezoning as well. Obviously, no one
stayed or showed tonight but we did receive phone calls concerning this
request.
I feel very sympathetic to the applicant and hope that you won't have a lot
of difficulty if we turn this down in finding an area to locate that is in
compliance but I look at the staff report and see that three areas do have
significant single family areas and I do agree with what the staff has
recommended and so I will move for denial of RZN 05-1524.
Myres: Second.
Clark: Those phone calls that you mentioned were they to support the rezoning or
against the rezoning?
Pate:
Clark:
Two were just concerned and two more were against the rezoning because
of the influx of commercial and industrial types of properties into this
area.
This is one of those difficult decisions and unfortunately the business
owner is going to be smack dab in the middle of it and that is unfortunate,
especially since this is the second time that this has happened. There is a
lot of residential up that street and duplexes with younger families moving
in and I will support declining this rezoning request for that very reason.
Ostner: I wanted to say that I think this is in a way very similar to our Green Acres
issue with the couple who wanted a chiropractic, health facility. There is a
lot of intense usage around here but there are also people holding the fort.
I think that little pocket of residential is significant and I just wanted to
talk about on the scale of appropriateness that there is industrial zone on
the map but as I drive out there most of those uses would be allowed in
less intense zoning districts as I saw them. I saw equipment, I didn't see
factories or gravel pits, there used to be a concrete plant backing up into
this. I know that zoning is the law but also down zonings do happen. This
area is changing and I believe that it would be good to hold the fort on this
piece of property.
McClelland: I was going to ask if you could just keep one piece of property alive. I do
have three properties listed on there and I wouldn't need all three to keep
it going or even just temporary until I can move.
Ostner: Are you talking about rezoning one of those pieces?
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 78
McClelland: Across the street there is RSF-4, just the ones that are R -O now maybe
you would consider those to be C-2 and not the ones closer to the
residents.
Ostner: We have a motion and a second, would the motioner be amenable to
withdrawing and reconsidering the applicant's request?
Allen: No.
Anthes: I just wanted to state that it is interesting in the staff report that the future
land use plan designates this site for residential use and I think that is
interesting when you are talking about how this is going to redevelop over
time and what the General Plan is pointing us towards. It seems to me that
this entire block is appropriate as R -O and in order to do house keeping if
we are looking at this entire piece of property and these three lots it would
seem to me that a rezoning request for Lot 14 to R -O would be appropriate
in holding that block as a continuous piece of R -O and I wondered if staff
had comments about that.
Pate: In our comments we would support the R -O zoning district.
Unfortunately, that doesn't assist this applicant at all.
Anthes: It would allow us to do housekeeping at this point since there has been a
process.
Pate:
Should the applicant continue forward. It may not be in his interest to
continue going to meetings and going before Council. They may just want
to withdraw it. I agree with you. We would recommend approval of R -O.
Allen: Jeremy, if we deny this does that impact his business tomorrow?
Pate:
The action of applying for the rezoning suspends the violation period for
the time that he is in process of trying to come into compliance. We
would have 10 days of appeal period that he could appeal to City Council
and then the clock would start ticking again and I'm not sure where we are
in the violation but we could handle that with our policies and procedures
that we practice within the Planning Division.
Allen: He would have some period of time in which to relocate?
Pate: That is correct.
Williams: He has an automatic right to appeal and then it takes a while to get on the
City Council agenda before they can take any action whatsoever on the
Planning Commission
June 13, 2005
Page 79
Pate:
appeal so he would have some time if he does make his appeal to City
Council.
Correct. If it is in the process whether by forwarding by the Planning
Commission or appealing that is considered in process and the timing of
the violation is suspended.
Clark: The violation is filed against the renter, not the owner?
Pate: It is sent to both the property owner and the lessee.
Clark: Who pays the fine?
Pate: I would assume the property owner would.
Williams: I would say that both could be potentially liable. It would be up to the City
Prosecutor to decide what the situation is and who is most liable. They
both could be potentially liable.
Ostner: We have a motion and a second. Is there further discussion on the denial
of RZN 05-1524? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to deny RZN 05-1524 was
approved by a vote of 7-0-1 with Commissioner Vaught voting no.
Ostner: Thank you. That is the last item on our agenda.
Announcements
Meeting adjourned: 9:55 p.m.