HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-09-03 - MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
A regular meeting of the Subdivision Committee was held on Friday, September 3, 2004
at 8:30 a.m. in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ACTION TAKEN
LSP 04-1171: (Quality Life Associates, Inc., 289) Forwarded
Page 2
LSP 04-1172: (MONG, 519) Approved
Page 10
LSD 04-1128: (THETA TAU HOUSE, 443) Forwarded
Page 12
LSD 04-1198: (SKATE STATION, 639/640) Forwarded
Page 18
LSD 04-1142: (LAZENBY WAREHOUSES, 520) Approved
Page 21
PPL 04-1176: (CLABBER CREEK PHASES 3, 4 & 5, 283)Tabled
Page 24
PZD 04-1175: (RIVENDELL, 522)
Page 43
MEMBERS PRESENT
Jill Anthes
Christian Vaught
Loren Shackelford
STAFF PRESENT
Jeremy Pate
Renee Thomas
Suzanne Morgan
Rebecca Ohman
Dawn Warrick
Matt Casey
Forwarded
MEMBERS ABSENT
STAFF ABSENT
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 2
LSP 04-1171: Lot Split (QUALITY LIFE ASSOCIATES, INC., 289): Submitted by
QUALITY LIFE ASSOCIATES, INC. for property located at 2623 N GREGG
AVENUE. The property is zoned RMF -24, MULTI FAMILY - 24 UNITS/ACRE and
contains approximately 6.43 acres. The request is to split the subject property into two
tracts of 5.43 and 1.00 acres respectively.
Anthes: Welcome to the September 3, 2004 meeting of the Fayetteville
Subdivision Committee meeting. The first two items on the agenda have
been tabled at the applicant's request and will not be heard this morning.
If you are here for either of those items, I'm sorry, but we will not be
hearing those this morning. The next item on the agenda is LSP 04-1171.
I believe Suzanne has the staff report on this one.
Morgan: Yes. This is a request to split a 6.43 acre tract located at 2623 North
Gregg Avenue into two tracts of 5.43 and 1.00 acres. A little bit of
background on this property, in 1995 the Planning Commission approved
a Lot Split and Conditional Use Permit for a tandem lot to the north of the
same tract. Access to the tandem lot was provided by a 25' access
easement on Gregg Street through the subject property. An additional 1.68
acres of the property was adjusted onto this northern tandem lot in 1998
resulting in the current tract you see before you. In 1999 the Subdivision
Committee approved the second and third Lot Split on the subject
property. Additional right of way dedication was required at that time in
order to provide a minimum 60' lot width with city right of way. These
lots were not recorded however, at the county and therefore, are void. The
existing lot does not have frontage on Gregg Street. Again, because there
is that division with the Arkansas Missouri Railroad, but it does have a
portion of frontage on Jocelyn Lane, which is an unconstructed right of
way on the southeast corner. In 1999 the Subdivision Committee
approved the proposed Lot Splits which were never filed with the
condition that additional right of way would be dedicated. At this time the
applicant has not shown additional right of way in that configuration for
each of these lots. Staff does recommend dedication of right of way to
reflect the previously approved plats. Surrounding land uses include
single family residents to the north with the zoning of RMF -24. To the
south is C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and 1-1, Light Industrial. Located
to the south are the old Farmer's Daughter and to the east are Lakeside
Village Apartments and Sunbridge Center zoned RMF -24 and C-1, and
the university farms located to the west. Staff recommends approval of
this Lot Split at the Subdivision Committee level with six conditions.
Planning Commission determination of adequate access to each lot.
Second, adequate right of way shall be dedicated to provide required
frontage for each lot reflecting the previously approved Lot Splits. Third,
construction of any type in the floodplain or floodway will require a
grading plan and floodplain development permit. A public sewer main
shall be extended to each of the proposed lots prior to filing the Lot Split.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 3
Fifth, Parks fees in the amount of $555 for a single family residence shall
be issued prior to building permit approval. Condition six is a standard
condition of approval.
Anthes: Thank you Suzanne. Are there additional staff reports?
Casey: The conditions of approval state that the sewer shall be extended to each
lot. I believe the applicant is going to request that that be removed from
the conditions. They have provided easements for us for our future trunk
lines that are going to be coming through this property as part of the
overall wastewater treatment plant project. Sewer will be available to this
site within the next few years. Currently, the property is separated from
the existing sewer by the railroad and Gregg Avenue. In order for them to
be able to serve these lots they would have to bore approximately 120' or
more to be able to get through both of these right-of-ways. After Plat
Review we've had conversations that I believe I could support the removal
of that condition at this time. They do have sufficient acreage to be able to
support a septic system. They would, if you as a Commission, decide to
waive that requirement, they would have to provide the conditional letter
from the Health Department for the one acre tract but for the other tract
they have plenty of acreage to support a system without that conditional
letter at this time.
Anthes: Matt, would they then be required to tie into the sewer when that went
through?
Casey: Yes Ma'am. I need to check with our consulting engineers out of Dallas
that are doing the line work to see where along here that a smaller line will
be stubbed out for connections in this area. They won't be able to connect
directly to the main line, it is just too large, but periodically there will be
connection points installed for places like this.
Anthes: Will there be impact fees at that time?
Casey: Yes, there will be impact fees at that time. That is a requirement for both
water and sewer at the time of connection.
Warrick: I would just like to add that our Trails Master Plan shows several trail
corridors in this area. I would like to see some coordination with Steve
Hatfield on that.
Anthes: Are there any other comments? Would you introduce yourself and tell us
about your project please?
Faccett: I'm Johnny Faccett, I'm the Chief Operating Officer for Quality of Life.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 4
Alexander: I'm Fran Alexander and I'm CEO for Quality of Life.
Anthes: Can you tell us a little bit about your project?
Alexander: It is designed as a transitional home. After research we discovered in the
Fayetteville area there is a need for housing for women with disabilities.
For the purpose of helping them to relearn their daily activities of daily
living. Four women would live in this house. They would have to pass
guidelines for admission, which would be fairly strict in that they have to
be medically stable. There will be no medical services provided in the
facility. Any medical services which they need will either take place in
our office, which is across Gregg Street or they would be taken to an
appropriate place. Mentally they will be stable, as well as physically.
Faccett: This is a program for women who are learning the skills it takes for them
to be independent. They will have cognitive disabilities and physical
disabilities. They won't have drug or alcohol problems whatsoever. We
will be focusing more on restoration and stabilization. Our ultimate goal
is for them to be transitioned back to their families or to independent
living where they can live on their own.
??: Very likely, our daughter Kathy who is in a wheelchair will spend a good
part of her life there. She has been like this for 22 years. We are just
trying to help other people who need these services. When Kathy was
injured there were 85% of the people died because there were no services.
It was recommended that we unplug the respirator. Now 65% of the
people live thanks to improvements in medical sciences and medical
services. We are just trying to keep people from going through what we
have for 22 years.
Anthes: Before we open it up for public comment I need to explain that we are
considering only the Lot Split today that has a different conversation than
when we consider the Conditional Use that will go before the full Planning
Commission.
Warrick: This is a two fold request that the applicants are making of the Planning
Commission. You are right, today we are considering the land division of
this 6.43 acre tract of land. The request is to create a one acre tract of land
which will be suitable for the development of the single family home.
Staff has made recommendations on conditions in order for that to meet
the city's ordinances with regard to frontage and access. The next step in
the process would be to take this to the Planning Commission as a
Conditional Use request for what we consider a cultural or recreational
type facility within a residential zoning district to allow for a single family
home to have 24 hour services to assist in the care of the residents. Four
individuals would be permitted to reside in the single family home in this
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 5
zoning district regardless of any additional approvals. The reason that this
would go before the Planning Commission as a Conditional Use request is
for that 24 hour care to be provided in the home as the applicants have
described. A single family home is permitted by right and four individuals
are permitted to live in a single family home in this zoning district. Right
now, today, we are looking at the division of property and determining
whether or not creation of this proposed one acre tract is appropriate and
consistent with the city's regulations and determining whether or not
creation of this proposed one acre tract is appropriate and consistent with
the city's regulations.
Anthes: So the comments that we can hear from the public today should be
reserved to the division of land and if they want to speak on the use they
need to come back and speak at the Planning Commission meeting where
that is being heard.
Warrick: That is correct. The Conditional Use request will be carried forward to the
meeting on September 13`h.
Anthes: Thank you Dawn. To recap that, we are looking only at division of land
today. If you would like to address this item we will open it to public
comment in just a moment. You need to keep your comments solely to
the division of land and not to land use. If you do want to speak to the
project and the land use we will be happy to hear those comments at the
September 13`h Planning Commission meeting, which is Monday night
and starts at 5:30. Would any member of the public like to address LSP
04-1171 for Quality of Life Associates? If so, please come forward.
Beard: I'm Marsha Beard. I own the property adjoining this. It used to be the old
Farmers Daughter. It is in a commercial area, although I'm totally
restructuring the property for my own personal residents. I purchased the
property about a year and a half ago and part of the reason I wanted it was
because of the look, not only of the property, but of the entrance into the
property. Here are some pictures showing here is where you turn from
Gregg. The thing that really sold me on the property is it was like you
were in the middle of nowhere but you are right in the middle of town.
I'm a single, divorced mother with a son and I've always wanted to live
out in the country but in my current status I didn't feel like I wanted to live
out there by myself with my son so this was the best of both worlds. I
bought the property a year and a half ago. I got the appraisal based on
what it will be like when I finish it and it is going to be a million dollar
property. My concern with the Lot Split is there are a lot of bad traffic
patterns already trying to get out onto Gregg from Jocelyn. In fact, the
intersection of Sunbridge and Gregg sometimes gets backed up past Gregg
so it adds more traffic into that area. It is a concern and a hazard. The un -
gated railroad tracks there adds another safety issue that may need to be
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 6
addressed. My main concern too, is just the development of one of the
few remaining wilderness areas of Fayetteville. This next picture will
show where this is about where the place will be built that they are
proposing. This is the drive going on up into my residence. The rest of
the pictures show what I'm doing to develop my own property and the
concern that I have that development of this might detract from the value
of the property faster than I'm developing it. The way that they have laid
out on the property, I don't know if that is part of this or not, but they have
what is now a pretty scenic thing, a concrete block wall almost touching
the gravel road as you are coming into there. Instead of being nice trees
and things coming into this area you are going to see a concrete block
wall. That's all I have.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to address this item? Seeing none, I
will bring it back to the Commissioners for comments. Lets try to get
some questions answered about what we can and can't review. I believe
that traffic and roadway conditions are things that we can look at.
Warrick: Traffic and access are considerations.
Anthes: The property is currently zoned RMF -24.
Warrick: The density is certainly permitted. The land use would be permitted
whether or not the one acre were developed with a single family home or
otherwise. That would be a consideration at the time of permit to
determine if the zoning was in place for a multi -family residential
development in this location. Again, a lot of it does stem back to access
and whether or not the Planning Commission believes that there is
adequate access, even with this split to provide for the new tract. The
existing single family home that is on the site obviously, is accessed. This
driveway that goes into this property is utilized by three properties. There
is a single family home to the north. The home that Ms. Beard is working
on to the south as well as the existing single family home on this tract of
land are all accessed from the existing driveway off of Gregg Street. The
only portion of that property that is dedicated right of way is a small
section just off of Gregg Street that is called Jocelyn Lane. Staff is
proposing that that right of way is widened out so that improvements can
be made within a public right of way in the future. Another issue of
course, is that there is a significant amount of floodplain and floodway
crossing this property and the properties to the north and south with the
creek that runs along the west side of the railroad tracks. There is a low
water crossing that is a part of the entry drive providing access to these
three sites. Certainly, it would not be utilized for the proposed lot. The
proposed lot is on the east side of that bridge. However, it does provide
access to the other lots.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 7
Anthes: Thank you Dawn. Matt, can you talk about any expected increase in
traffic and the railroad crossing issue?
Casey: There is quite a bit of distance in between where you actually pull out onto
Gregg and the tracks of the railroad. I don't believe that the amount of
traffic coming over those railroad tracks would warrant any kind of
signalization or warning signs on the railroad itself. It has room enough
there to back up traffic between Gregg that those vehicles waiting to pull
out onto Gregg and the tracks to accommodate some of the traffic. As far
as the turning movements out onto Gregg it is a very busy stretch of
highway but the Highway Department is working on the plans for the
widening of Gregg all the way from Township to Johnson. They are
already working on the portion in Johnson now. This will become an
improved highway along this stretch. As far as the amount of traffic
generated, as Dawn said, it is zoned for multi -family. This would be a
relatively low impact compared to what a full multi -family development
would be. I don't have any concerns with the volume that would be
generated on this type of development.
Anthes: Thank you Matt. Also, with the right of way dedication, would any street
improvements be required with development on this property?
Casey: Not with a Lot Split. If we, in the future, see a Large Scale Development,
which I think may be in future plans, then we would be looking at
improvements along this right of way.
Vaught: I have questions on the sewer issues. This lot has not been perked yet has
it? I imagine if you aren't going to connect to sewer you are going to have
to put it on septic. My concern is due to the restrictions on the site with
sanitary sewer easements up there, they are going to rip up your tank when
they put the lines in and I'm worried about you having enough room for a
leach field. Also with the floodplain issues. I know that there are some
requirements dealing with how close you can be to a creek with a septic
system.
Casey: There are certain setbacks from property lines and sources of water and
also natural water ways. I'm not familiar with what they are. Before this
lot could actually be split they would have to have that conditional letter
of approval to submit to us.
Vaught: I worry about, that we are making a tract here that I guess could be used
after the sanitary sewer is put in but if they can't put a septic tank on it
there can't be construction. I guess this split would be conditional on the
state approval of the septic design?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 8
Casey: We can ask that that letter be submitted prior to Planning Commission.
With this waiver it would have to go forward to the full Planning
Commission.
Anthes: Ok. Are there any other comments?
Shackelford: I was thinking along the same thought process as Commissioner Vaught. I
think that if we take out condition of approval number four regarding the
sewer main that we probably need to replace that with some sort of
condition that we have confirmation from the state that there is adequate
room for the septic system. Regarding traffic, I look at this property and it
is zoned RMF -24 right now, which is a use by right of 24 units per acre. I
think that a single family house is a lot less intrusive development in this
area. I think that I would be in support of this.
Warrick: If I can just add an observation. The configuration of right of way and
frontage that staff is proposing to ensure that each of these two lots
containing a single family home and a proposed single family home has
60' of frontage, restricts the use of the property to only two single family
homes because of the requirement for additional frontage on right of way
for anything containing three or more multi -family residences. That
would ensure that unless additional development, which would require
additional infrastructure installation unless additional development came
forward through you as the Planning Commission, we would not see
anything more than two single family homes on this 6 9z acre tract.
Shackelford: That infrastructure development, as I look at it, would be significant.
Warrick: It would. It would include a water crossing and street improvements.
Shackelford: I'm assuming the applicant is aware of that?
Faccett: Yes we are. I might add that we have addressed the sewer issue in two
different manners. There is a septic system, in effect, the water is purified
and then the second thing, we would also be amenable to a holding tank
with a regular pumping of the holding tank. We would make a contract
with someone who would drain the holding tank at an appropriate time. I
know that it could cost well over $50,000 to build the street. This will
allow us some temporary alternative to the sewer. I think on one of our
applications we show a holding tank and we are in contact with the Health
Department.
Anthes: Essentially we are talking about rewriting condition number four.
Shackelford: Matt, can you help me out? The letter that we require from the state on
sanitary septic systems, what is that called?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 9
Casey: It is just a conditional letter of approval.
Vaught: Does that look at the septic design or is that just a perk test?
Casey: Now instead of doing perk tests they dig test pits and they have a soils
methodologist analyze the soil itself so they will need to have that done
and that report will need to be submitted to the Health Department and the
Health Department will approve the septic system based on the amount of
area that they have available and the report from the soils methodologist.
Vaught: Do they look at the floodplain?
Casey: That will be considered in the setback condition and the amount of area
that they actually have for the installation.
Faccett: There is a substantial amount of this area east of Skull Creek that it out of
the floodplain laying on the eastern side. There s no reason why a lateral
line could not be put there.
MOTION:
Shackelford: I will make a motion that we forward LSP 04-1171 to the full Planning
Commission based on staff's comments with the stated conditions of
approval, condition number four being rewritten that in lieu of public
sewer main connection a conditional letter of approval from the State
Health Department must be obtained prior to the waiver request for a
septic system going to the full Planning Commission.
Anthes: I would also like to add that then the connection to the sewer will be
required with all applicable fees at the time it is available.
Shackelford: Add that to the motion the connection to public sewer system must be
attained once system is available in this area subject to all costs associated
with that connection.
Faccett: As to the $555 parks fees, I believe the check was submitted with the
application.
Vaught: I will second.
Anthes: I will concur.
Faccett: Is there anything that you would require that we have not submitted prior
to the Planning Commission?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 10
Anthes: That is something that you can work with staff on.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page I1
LSP 04-1172: Lot Split (MONG, 519): Submitted by WILLIAM RUDASILL for
property located at 523 SHILOH DRIVE. The property is zoned C-2,
THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 6.71 acres. The
request is to split the subject property into two tracts containing 3.01 and 3.70 acres.
Anthes: The next item of business today is LSP 04-1172 for Mong. Will the
applicant come forward? Jeremy?
Pate: This property is located at 523 Shiloh Drive west of I-540. The property
is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 6.71
acres. A property line adjustment was filed last week to create this subject
tract for split. The applicant requests approval of a Lot Split for this tract
to create two lots of 3.01 and 3.70 acres, tract 2A and 213 on your plat.
The site 2A, 3.01, contains a two story hotel. That entire development is
to be sited on lot 2A. The remaining lot, lot 2B is vacant at this time. It
does front onto Shiloh Drive and lot 2B also fronts onto Old Farmington
Road, both of which are collectors on the Master Street Plan. Right of
way is required to be dedicated along of Old Farmington Road in the
amount of 35' from centerline. The right of way along Shiloh Drive, as I
understand it, exists in excess of 35' from centerline at this time. Staff is
recommending approval of LSP 04-1172 at the Subdivision Committee
level with one standard condition of approval.
Anthes: Thank you Jeremy. Do we have other staff comments?
Casey: I would like to add a condition of approval. Asking for additional
easement around the fire hydrant that is shown to be located directly on
the property line. They have adequate easements around the mains
themselves but the hydrant seems to be located outside of the existing
easement. I would like to have at least 10' surrounding that hydrant.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to address this Lot Split?
Hill: Good morning, my name is Bob Hill. I'm with the Nickle Hill Group.
With the condition that you just mentioned, was that mentioned in the last
revision or is that something that just came up today?
Casey: In the Plat Review comments we asked for easements a minimum of 10'
on each side of all mains. The surveyor is showing easements on the
property, most of them are existing. However, this hydrant is located
outside of those easements that he has shown. We are just asking that it be
filed on this plat.
Hill: Is that something that has to come back to another meeting?
Casey: No Sir.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 12
Hill: Ok. Can this be filed today? The reason I'm asking this is there is a
buyer, a seller, a bank, a title company and myself that are meeting this
afternoon at 2:30 to close on a transaction. A lot of people thought that
that was going to happen and that that had been done. Is this something
that can be filed today or is this something that has to be redrawn and
redone and come back to you? What do I need to tell everyone?
Casey: That easement does need to be shown on the drawing. I'm not sure as far
as timing if your surveyor can get that drawing turned around and to our
Planning staff by a certain time. I'm not sure what kind of down time we
will have between now and then.
Pate: Other than that comment the plat is clean. If you can get that back in
today I believe we can take care of that for you.
Hill: As long as we can get this thing filed today. If the engineer can make that
revision and bring that back to you guys today.
Pate: Have it signed by the owner and bring it back to us should the committee
approve the Lot Split today.
Hill: Thank you.
Anthes: Christian, do you have any comments?
Vaught: I will make a motion that we approve LSP 04-1172 at the Subdivision
Committee level with the conditions of approval as stated.
Shackelford: With the second condition being an additional easement a minimum of 10'
surrounding the fire hydrant?
Vaught: Yes.
Shackelford: I will second.
Anthes: I will concur. Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 13
LSD 04-1128: Large Scale Development (THETA TAU HOUSE, 443): Submitted by
RON HOMEYER for property located at 1322 W. CLEVELAND AVENUE. The
property is zoned RMF -24, MULTI FAMILY - 24 UNITS/ACRE and contains
approximately 1.93 acres. The request is to approve a 6,000 sq.ft. fraternity house with
12 rooms and 26 parking spaces proposed.
Anthes: The next item is LSD 04-1128 for the Theta Tau House. Will the
applicants come forward?
Pate: This property is located at 1322 W. Cleveland Avenue. It is zoned RMF -
24 and contains approximately 1.93 acres. There is currently a fraternity
house located on this site. The applicant is proposing to demolish that
house and construct a new one consisting of approximately 6,000 sq.ft.
with 12 rooms and 26 parking spaces proposed for this development. This
use is a use by right in the RMF -24 zoning district. The density with this
development is approximately 6.2 dwelling units per acre which is well
below the 24 unit maximum. Each room is intended to house two students
for a total of 24 students on site. The 26 proposed parking spaces would
not be allowed by ordinance. For 12 bedrooms a maximum of 16 spaces
is allowed. A Conditional Use request has been submitted to go to the full
Planning Commission to allow for this extra parking. Based on the
demand expressed by the number of students living on site as well as the
potential future expansion of this house. The Conditional Use Permit will
track concurrently with the Large Scale Development and be heard at the
full Planning Commission meeting. Surrounding properties include
undeveloped property to the north which is zoned RSF-4. To the south is
the U of A parking lot, which is zoned Institutional. To the east and west
is single family homes and multi -family dwellings to the east as well.
Those are zoned RSF-4 and RMF -40. Water and sewer are currently
available along Cleveland Street and will be utilized for the subject
development. 25' of right of way is required to be dedicated with this
project. Additionally, the developer is required to improve Cleveland
Street 14' from centerline including curb, gutter, storm drains and 6'
sidewalks located at the right of way line. Parks and Recreation Board
recommends accepting money in lieu of land for this proposed project in
the amount of 51,965. For the tree preservation report, there is an existing
canopy coverage of 43.3% preserved is 26.7%. No mitigation is required.
There are several conditions listed within the tree preservation report and
those do need to be indicated on the plat before this goes to the Planning
Commission. I won't go over all of those but essentially, the trees to the
west here that are located along the west property line, there are utility
easements to the far west and parking encroaches on quite a bit of that.
The developer is making every effort to ensure protection of those trees
with a retaining wall as well as tree protection fencing. Those trees may
not be counted for preservation due to the extensive construction occurring
in that area but I would just like to mention that the developer is making
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 14
every effort to save those trees. We have received public comment from
several neighboring residents. Some of which, do object to this proposal
and are included in your packets. Primary concerns are the potential
impact on the value of neighboring property, primarily to the north. There
is a desire for screening along the east and north property lines to alleviate
the potential detrimental impact caused by increased parking on the
subject lot and concerns about slope and drainage onto adjacent properties.
To address one of the concerns staff will be recommending as part of the
Conditional Use request to see how appropriate this increased parking is
on this property, that a combination screen fence and vegetation be located
along the east and north property lines. Staff is recommending forwarding
this Large Scale Development to the full Planning Commission with 15
conditions of approval. I will go over a couple of those for you. The plats
shall be revised to reflect the maximum 19' length stall. Staff is
recommending that the parking stalls be reduced to 17' when fronting onto
greenspace. We can look at those locations. That is to reduce impervious
surface coverage and also to shift the parking lot to the east a bit to allow
more adequate room to save those existing trees on the west side of the
property. The applicant shall coordinate with the Fire Mashall's office to
verify the requirements of fire protection for this project prior to Planning
Commission. The landscape plan shall be revised to reflect all conditions
of approval as noted on the landscape review sheet which is attached, prior
to Planning Commission. There are a few items that need to be addressed
such as tree selection species. A continuous planting of shrubs is
recommended to be installed along all parking areas fronting onto adjacent
property. The applicant shall revise the tree preservation plan to
incorporate those conditions of approval as noted on the attached tree
preservation and protection report prior to the Planning Commission
meeting. Item number six also deals with the tree preservation plan. The
developer shall be required to protect the existing trees directly north of
the proposed development. Those are trees itemized as numbers 203
through 206. Until such time as the removal of these trees is deemed
necessary and unavoidable due to future expansion. On the tree
preservation plans you may note that there are future expansion plans for
this development, which I don't believe would require a Large Scale
Development. It is less than 10,000 sq.ft. and requires less than 25
parking spaces. That is something that we just want to make known at this
time. Also, I mentioned number seven, the developer shall make every
attempt possible to ensure the long term protection of existing offsite trees
along the western boundary. I believe that the rest of the conditions are
self explanatory.
Anthes: Thank you Jeremy. Are there any other staff reports? Will the applicant
introduce themselves and their project?
Homeyer: Sure. I'm Ron Homeyer.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 15
Manuelson: I'm Kenny Manuelson, I'm the project architect with Perry, Butcher &
Associates.
??: I'm Shannon ???, an intern at Perry, Butcher & Associates.
Anthes: Would you tell us about your project?
Homeyer: I guess we may be increasing the parking but obviously, there will be
more people there. We are concerned that right now the road runs along
the property to the east there that we have been parking on. We are going
to landscape that edge over there and hopefully by increasing that
landscaping over there that will give them a buffer. I think that this is
going to be a major plus in that their existing house is rough. I think their
new house is going to be a real nice addition to that neighborhood. I do
want to make sure that there is a buffer. Right now their nose is right up
against that existing property to the east. We are proposing to landscape
that to give them a buffer there with trees and all sorts of stuff to soften
that a little bit.
Shackelford: Is that what staff is addressing in condition number one?
Pate: In a way. If you look at the first map of Theta Tau in your staff report you
can note the single family residents to the east sort of in this cut out here
of the property. That is specifically the resident that has submitted a letter
asking for a privacy screen consisting of potentially a combination fence
and vegetative screening there due to the potential impact of parking
headlights coming into the house at that level. I do agree that currently
that driveway is potentially along that property line.
Shackelford: Have you seen these conditions of approval?
Homeyer: No. This is the first time I've seen them.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to address LSD 04-1128? Seeing
none, I will bring it back to the Subdivision Committee.
Shackelford: Do you have any concerns or comments regarding condition number one?
Homeyer: I don't have any major objections to reducing the stall length to 17' to get
away from the trees.
Pate: Currently the stalls are shown at 20' in length which is beyond our
maximum allowed, 19' is the standard allowed, 9'x19' is the standard
space. We are actually requesting that in certain locations that could
potentially go down to 17'. That is allowed when you are fronting on
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 16
greenspace. That would allow 2' more room for these trees potentially.
You could reduce 3' there because you are at 20' right now.
Anthes: You would put a wheel stop in the front of the curb.
Vaught: I have questions about future expansion, not that it is before us now. If it
requires additional parking where are you going to propose parking in the
future?
Homeyer: We would be basically coming along the east side of the property and
parking in front of the house.
Vaught: This retaining wall that you are going to put, this is just the catch basin for
the drainage at this time?
Homeyer: It is all underground. When I design a project normally I try to look at
possibly expanding a project. All the time projects are built without any
thought to future expansion. They may never build this. All I'm doing is
kind of setting aside the possibility. This may never be built, I don't know
about that. We really haven't done this proposal, we actually added that
into this because I didn't want that to complicate the issue. I wanted to go
ahead and get this and be thinking about that. This is my first time
through this process. This is daunting from an outsider's view. This is
really a daunting process. I didn't realize it was necessary for us to show
that but I also didn't know what was involved with the tree ordinances and
all of this stuff too. This is just, we have actually added those in and went
through meetings with Jeremy and things like that. I really can't speak to
how or if they wilt ever build that. The house is designed with the
mechanics there. That would be an idea. I may be causing the house
some problems that don't exist just trying to anticipate the future success
of this house if it is going to be needed.
Anthes: I would certainly agree that architecturally they are adding greatly to what
is existing at the house. I do have some question about how it is
contributing to the neighborhood as a whole and the compatibility with the
adjoining property owners in that the setbacks off of the street, we've got
this parking lot in the front, we've got single family homes that are next to
it. I'm wondering whether you had considered maintaining that setback
that was there and parking in the rear so that you could be more
compatible with the neighbors.
Homeyer: It really is impossible. Just as far as visually, my initial design really was
to set the house further back on the property and come into the property on
almost like a boulevard onto the property and then go into the parking lot
area. As we got into issues with respect to this little grove of trees in the
back which we have tried to save and also got into issues with respect to
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 17
distance required for turn around and all of those issues. All of those
things actually brought all of this stuff forward quite a bit. The tree issues,
the fire truck issue. Honestly, I think that this is going to be just a
wonderful way to come into this property and I think I would almost want
it to kind of establish an attitude of estate. I really don't think it is
advantageous to bring it forward and take the parking behind or something
like that. I just don't think that will work very well.
Anthes: I don't know about any estates that have parking lots in front of them. As
a neighbor, one thing is to look at compatibility with adjoining neighbors
and we do have people who create this pattern of single family homes now
those will be adjacent to a parking lot with a lot of people coming in all
hours of the day and night. I actually find that that kind of parking lot is
visually obstructive as well as could be destructive to the adjoining
property owners.
Homeyer: The other thing is the property directly to the east is a great big apartment
complex. This residence that is between this and that one, as far as the
neighborhood is concerned, there are dormitories, across the street there
are apartments to the east of this property and this is going to be the nicest
architectural building down there. With respect to the trees and we are
adding to the trees that are there already. If we get the fire truck access
further onto the property it also doesn't let us expand the house if we bring
it forward because the property is so narrow. The other consideration is
we have to completely demolish the existing house before we build the
house. The plan is for the fraternity to go on until this other house is built
and then the fraternity members move into the house and then the existing
building will go.
Anthes: Staff, what screening, I'm looking at the conditions of approval where you
are talking about screening along this eastern property line. Is that
something that we can require?
Pate: That is really as a part of the Conditional Use to look at if the number of
spaces proposed over the maximum allowed by ordinance is appropriate
and compatible with this area and what types of screening, for instance, do
we want to look at, privacy fencing or screening for buffering that specific
use. That is something that we recommended as part of the Large Scale.
It would be more appropriate at the time of Conditional Use. Obviously,
this will track forward with that Conditional Use.
Anthes: So we will see this together?
Pate: Right, it will be together.
Anthes: Are there any comments?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 18
Vaught: I think it is to the point where we need to forward it and have discussion at
the full Planning Commission as far as conditions for the Conditional Use.
Seeing that together will help us decide. It will also give the applicant
time to review the conditions of approval. That is a motion to forward this
to the full Planning Commission.
Shackelford: I will concur and second.
Anthes: I do have some comments about the site plan but we will see you at the
full Planning Commission. Thank you very much.
Homeyer: This hammerhead right here, that is not parking, that is the Fire Marshall's
requirements. If we move that out there we would have to turn it sideways
which would give a much less appropriate view. This paving on the site is
probably at least doubled because we have to take a road around this
house and then provide a full fire truck turn around in the back of the site.
Honestly, this destroys that whole site.
Vaught: Just for the record, I tend to agree. I like it better in the beginning.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 19
LSD 04-1198: Large Scale Development (SKATE STATION, 639/640) was submitted
by STEVE CLARK for property located at 2283 S SCHOOL AVENUE. The property is
zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 2.46 acres with a
16,625 sq.ft. indoor skateboard park and a 5,000 sq.ft. warehouse proposed.
Anthes: The next item of business today is LSD 04-1198 for the Skate Station.
Would the applicant come forward?
Pate: A little background information. First of all, this property is located at
2283 S. School Avenue. It is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and
contains approximately 2.46 acres. In April, 2003 the Planning
Commission unanimously approved both a Conditional Use to allow
warehousing on this property and a Large Scale Development as is
currently submitted. A tree preservation plan was approved as noted on
the submitted site plans as was the landscape plan and grading and
drainage plans. Floodplain development permits and grading and drainage
permits have been issued for this project and the necessary grading to
begin construction has been accomplished. Essentially, what we are
reviewing today is a new Large Scale Development because the old one
has expired prior to building permits. Unknown to the applicant, the
Large Scale Development plans for this expired April 15th of this year. A
couple of weeks ago the applicant came in to ascertain the applicable
permits and was made aware of that. As I mentioned, the subject property
is located on South School south of Cato Springs Road north of 24th
Street. It is bound on the south by property zoned I-1 on the north by C-2
and to the west and east by RSF-4. As I mentioned, the property is
currently under development. If you go out there you will see what is
occurring. Subsequent to the approved, but not expired, Large Scale
Development plans. The site does contain several groupings of tree
canopy, particularly the high priority canopy and riparian corridor along
the creek that flows west onto the property. As noted on the tree
preservation plan the majority of the trees at the front are being preserved
per the approved tree preservation plans. The applicant is proposing to
reinstate the approvals granted by the Planning Commission for both the
Conditional Use and the Large Scale Development approximately 16
months ago. The proposal is to develop a 16,625 sq.ft. indoor skateboard
park and a 5,000 sq.ft. warehouse utilized for the storage of wooden ramps
and jump boxes used by the skateboard park operators to create varying
setups for the park users. The ramp components are stored when not being
actively utilized by the skateboard facility. Warehousing is a Conditional
use in the C-2 zoning district, thus requiring both the Large Scale
Development and the Conditional Use to be heard by the Planning
Commission. Staff is recommending that LSD 04-1198 be forwarded to
the full Planning Commission with eight conditions of approval. Item
one, approval shall be subject to the approval of a Conditional Use for
storage and warehousing in a C-2 district. Planning Commission
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 20
determination of compliance with commercial design standards based on
the elevations submitted and approved in April, 2003. Item number four,
sidewalk fees in the amount of $1,854. Staff is recommending that this
money be accepted in lieu of construction of a sidewalk across this site.
The topography and the drainage channel in this area restrict the
construction of a 6' sidewalk and required greenspace. The existing 4'
sidewalk would remain for pedestrian use. I have included the minutes
from the last Planning Commission meeting on these items. We probably
won't have a lot of time to review them today but we are recommending
that these items go forward.
Anthes: Thank you Jeremy. Are there other staff reports?
Casey: As Jeremy mentioned, the construction has already started on the project.
We issued a grading permit sometime last year and they broke ground and
have been underway for quite some time now. I guess there were some
construction issues regarding the building that has delayed the actual
building permit being pulled. In the meantime, the grading permit has
expired so that will need to be resubmitted and reissued through this
process. The construction plans have already been reviewed and
approved. We just need to reissue the grading permit if the Planning
Commission approves the Large Scale.
Anthes: Would the applicant introduce yourself and tell us about your project?
Clark: I'm Steve Clark. I was the original engineer on the project and still am.
Neal Crawford was supposed to be here. Since I'm here on another
project and he didn't show up I came up to cover for him. As has been
discussed, Neal is doing this for himself. He is contracting it himself. He
has a small construction company and he didn't realize that his approval
was going to expire in April. He was under construction well before that
but got into some issues with the metal building people and the price of
steel and this and that and one thing after another. Anyway, bottom line is
he is here today for approval so he can complete his project that he has
already started.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to address this Large Scale
Development? Seeing none, we will close it to public comment.
Shackelford: I have one question of staff. The conditions of approval as they are stated
now, are they the same conditions that we approved previously?
Pate: They are. They have been updated to reflect current conditions. The
Conditional Use conditions are also included in your packet to review as
well from the last submittal.
MOTION:
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 21
Shackelford: From what I remember when we heard this the first time, there was quite a
bit of discussion. We did depend on the Subdivision Committee a great
deal at that time. They worked hard to reach some compromises and
alleviate some public concern. It was a project that I think was very well
put together by the time that it was all said and done. We are basically
looking at the same project we were then. This does have to go to the full
Planning Commission. I am going to go ahead and make a motion that we
forward LSD 04-1198 to the full Planning Commission.
Vaught: I will second it.
Anthes: I will concur. Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 22
LSD 04-1142: Large Scale Development (LAZENBY WAREHOUSES, 520):
Submitted by LANDTECH ENGINEERING for property located at RAZORBACK
ROAD, S OF 6TH STREET. The property is zoned I-1, HEAVY
COMMERCIAL/LIGHT INDUSTRIAL and contains approximately 1.14 acres. The
request is to approve a 19,200 sq.ft. storage facility with 8 storage spaces and 20 parking
spaces proposed.
Anthes: The next item of business is LSD 04-1146 for Lazenby Warehouses.
Pate: This property, you may remember, was formerly attached to the Lazenby
Properties Residential PZD which was approved back in November, 2003
allowing a mixed use residential and commercial project on Razorback
Road. This Large Scale Development is for the contractor storage,
essentially, two buildings comprised of 9,600 sq.ft. for a total of 19,200
sq.ft. storage facility with eight storage spaces. Part of the approval
process when it went through the Residential Planned Zoning District, it
was noted just prior to the Planning Commission meeting that this use, the
warehousing storage use is not allowed within the use units of a R-PZD.
Therefore, a Property Line Adjustment had to be processed and approved
to remove this portion of the property out of the actual project. That has
occurred and Use Unit 21 is allowable and permitted by right in the I-1
zoning district. The 1.14 acre tract is owned by the applicant also who
owns existing warehouses directly to the west of this property, which are
developed as existing warehouses and accessed off Beechwood Avenue
south of 6"' Street. It is in a part of an overall tract owned by the applicant.
The entire property is zoned as I-1. There are no existing trees on this
particular portion of the site. Therefore, a waiver request has been
submitted and approved. As I mentioned, the applicant proposes to
construct two additional contractor storage buildings. The property is
accessed again, through the existing storage facility and will likely be
developed in keeping with the existing structures. There are some greater
setbacks that we had to work with the developer on because this is now
zoned from I-1 to R-PZD, it is a residential district and therefore, there are
increased setbacks with regard to this use. There is a 50' setback as
opposed to typically only a 10' setback. The applicants did have to go
back and revisit their site plan and move the one building there to the
south outside of that 50' setback. Additionally, the applicant is proposing
a view of the green screen composed of a combination of evergreen trees
and privacy fencing along that residential zoning district there. Staff is
recommending approval of this LSD at the Subdivision Committee level
with six conditions of approval 1) A detailed planting plan shall be
submitted for the combination landscape and fence screen to be installed
along the rear of the property prior to the issuance of building permits. 2)
The developer shall coordinate with the Solid Waste Division to ensure
compliance with all requirements prior to building permit.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 23
Anthes: Thank you Jeremy. Are there other staff comments? Would the
applicants introduce yourself and tell us about your project?
Hillis: My name is Don Hillis with Landtech Engineering. We are the engineers
for the project.
Ball: My name is Ronnie Ball, I work with Mr. Lazenby on the project.
Anthes: Are there any comments that you have?
Hillis: Just one. We have been talking with staff and are in agreement with them.
We have done all of what they have asked for and have moved forward
allowing more greenspace between the apartments and the storage, added
more trees to screen it off more. I think it is a good project. It will look
nice.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to address this LSD for Lazenby?
Seeing none, I will bring it back to the Commissioners for discussion.
Vaught: Why don't we have the elevations to look at?
Pate: It is because this is an industrial project within an Industrial zoning
district. Therefore, commercial design standards are not applicable.
Vaught: It is one thing to look at, for me I was looking at backing up to this R-PZD
zone, just wondering if there was anything we had for that.
Pate: There actually is a requirement for the screening because it is a non-
residential use adjacent to a residential zoning district. Therefore, the
requirement for screening is there and that is what we have worked with
the applicant to accomplish.
Shackelford: Jeremy, access to this will be through the other adjoining?
Pate: Correct.
Shackelford: As I drove out and looked at this that was kind of my only question.
Anthes: I think that this additional setback and the screening will really accomplish
what the intent was when we approved the PZD. Are there any other
comments?
MOTION:
Shackelford: I will go ahead and make a motion that we approve LSD 04-1142 subject
to all the conditions of approval.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 24
Vaught: I will second.
Anthes: I will concur. Thank you very much.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 25
PPL 04-1176: Preliminary Plat (CLABBER CREEK PHASES 3, 4 & 5, 283):
Submitted by GEOFFREY BATES for property located at W OF RUPPLE RD &
SALEM VILLAGE & N OF CLABBER CREEK PH. 1 & 2. The property is zoned
RSF-4, SINGLE FAMILY - 4 UNITS/ACRE and contains approximately 75.11 acres.
The request is to approve a preliminary plat of the subject property with 259 single-
family lots proposed.
Anthes: Item number nine today is PPL 04-1176 for Clabber Creek Phases III, IV,
and V.
Morgan: The applicant requests approval of a Preliminary Plat for Phases III, IV,
and V of the Clabber Creek subdivision. The Final Plat for Phases I and II
of this subdivision were approved by the Subdivision Committee on June
18`h of this year. The subject property contains approximately 75 acres
and is zoned RSF-4. Development includes 259 lots. The property is
located north of Clabber Creek, phases I and II of the Clabber Creek
subdivision. Salem Village and Salem Meadows are located to the east
and the northeast of this property. Surrounding zoning includes RSF-4 to
the south and east and the Planning Area to the north and west. Water and
sanitary sewer shall be extended to serve this development. Additionally,
rights of way will be dedicated within the project boundaries include 50'
and 40' street sections. Dedication of right of way for Rupple Road, a
minor arterial, requiring 45' from centerline located east of the property.
The total right of way however, shown for Rupple on these construction
plans is 80' where 90' is required. This is an issue which will need to be
looked at and resolved prior to Planning Commission. No other Master
Street Plan streets are identified within the subject property however.
Connectivity is proposed in all cardinal directions from this subdivision.
Currently the only means of access is through adjacent subdivisions from
Salem Road. The applicant proposes construction of Rupple Road
adjacent to the property and across Clabber Creek by bridge in order to
provide a direct means of access from the minor arterial, Rupple Road.
Internal street configuration and connections include long, straight streets
that may contribute to and compound a dangerous traffic situation by
increasing the speed of traffic. Staff recommends forwarding this
Preliminary Plat to the full Planning Commission with 12 conditions of
approval which include Planning Commission determination of adequate
connectivity to adjacent properties. Planning Commission determination
of appropriate internal street connectivity. Planning Commission
determination of a waiver request for a cul-de-sac length greater than the
allowable 500'. If you look up on Street "G" measures at 689' in length.
Additional conditions address tree preservation and parkland. I will let
those be discussed individually by Jeremy and Allison. Condition number
nine is verification of lot width at building setbacks for lots 201 and 202.
The remaining conditions are standard conditions of approval.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 26
Anthes: Thank you Suzanne. Are there any other staff comments?
Brady: We just need to coordinate for the park boundaries with Steve Hatfield.
Pate: I do have several comments that will require revisions prior to the
Planning Commission meeting. One of the findings that the Landscape
Administrator is required to make with regard to Large Scale
Developments and Preliminary Plats is whether the size and shape of the
existing tract or lot reduces the flexibility of design. The Landscape
Administrator, my finding, is that the size and shape of this overall
property do not reduce that flexibility of design. I'm primarily concerned
about a large dripping of trees from approximately 203 to 213 along the
western boundary. That is shown. Those trees range from approximately
18" to 40" in diameter. There is significant amount of canopy there. That
is approximately 1.4 acres based on my calculations in that given area, all
of which are primarily elms and oaks. The tree preservation plans as
submitted to show these trees to be preserved with construction of the
infrastructure. Although, the infrastructure does not necessitate the
removal of these trees, the creation of the lots of the subdivision in this
configuration would not allow for the construction of a standard house.
Therefore, those cannot be counted as preserved in that specific area. Mr.
Bates has actually given a graphic here showing exactly one of the things I
wanted to see, to have a building footprint or an envelope essentially,
along where construction would occur and anywhere where that building
envelope could go with a standard house the trees could not be counted.
Bates: That is a worse case scenario box. It may not be shaped. They could put a
house on there that could miss the trees but there are about four trees that
would probably be lost.
Pate: That is something that we take into consideration. A lot of the trees that
are shown for preservation on this property potentially the tree is on the
side of the lot and the individual property owner could remove that tree
but it really needs to be left up to that individual property owner to do that.
With this configuration of lots there is no choice but to remove trees for
those homes. We are recommending that the applicant revisit either the
lot layout, the size of lots or putting an easement along that back property
there. Obviously, we need a lot configuration that you could construct a
home on which will preserve these trees. That is the bulk of my
comments.
Casey: I do have one comment I would like to make. They are showing Rupple
Road to cross Clabber Creek to the south to the existing Rupple along
Clabber Creek Phase I. I just wanted to let the Commission be aware that
we have assessed project in this area in the past for that bridge so that
money would be available to be given to the developer at the time of Final
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 27
Plat after construction of this roadway. I can't give you an exact amount at
this time but there have been a few subdivisions in there that have had
those assessments for the bridge. We assessed Wildflower Meadows, or
will, at the time of Final Plat. Clabber Creek Phase II, Salem Meadows
and Salem Heights paid for a percentage of this bridge construction. With
the construction of that those monies would be turned over to the
developer for that construction.
Morgan: I do have one condition that I failed to mention. Number four, an
approved Property Line Adjustment shall be filed at the county to remove
lot 259 from the subject property prior to consideration of construction
plans. That lot contains a large easement through half of it. It is un -
developable and in the future does not allow future subdivision of that
property and we are requesting that it be removed from the overall
property.
Anthes: Thank you Suzanne. Now would you all introduce yourself and your
project?
Bates: I'm Geoff Bates, the engineer on the project.
Barnes: I'm Bleaux Barnes.
Bates: Suzanne, on lots 201 and 202, what am I supposed to do?
Morgan: Verification of lot width at the building setback. You have noted it at the
right of way and it is less than 70'. We just need to verify that you do
have 70' of lot width at that building setback.
Bates: I'm sure there is, that is a huge lot. The other thing you said you had a
question or concern about the right of way for Rupple?
Morgan: Yes. Rupple Road is on the Master Street Plan identified as a minor
arterial requiring 90' of right of way.
Bates: We are giving 45'.
Warrick: The issue isn't on your side for the right of way. You are providing the
45' from centerline. However, on the side adjacent to the Salem Village
development there is inadequate right of way so what we have is a
constrained street section that does not meet the city's master street plan
for a 90' right of way with the standard improvements for a minor arterial.
Anthes: So they need to dedicate an additional 15' on this side?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 28
Warrick: I think that we need to look at that. I think that our Engineering Division
and the developer can get together and Planning as well to determine what
the best case is going to be for that. What we have right now is a situation
where the greenspace and the sidewalk width on the east side are not
going to match the greenspace and sidewalk widths on the west side. It is
a question as to whether or not the street should be offset so that we can
have a uniform configuration of street improvements or whether we just
have differences on either side of centerline.
Bates: Isn't the developer only required to give half the right of way from
centerline? Shouldn't Salem Village have given 45'? I thought that was
an ordinance.
Warrick: I believe that project came through prior to our current Master Street Plan
and they complied with the ordinances that were in place at the time.
What we have now is a situation that we have a minor arterial called out
and in order to build a minor arterial we need to determine the best way to
do that whether it is utilizing the existing 80' of right of way that is shown
or whether it is requiring an additional 10'.
Bates: There is 20' additional right of way that I think Salem Village has back in
here.
Warrick: They have some alley ways. It is not part of Rupple Road though.
Barnes: Dawn, you might also add too that we are constructing a 36' wide street.
That future right of way, that future green would be for expansion of
roadway, is that correct? Or is that just for the balance of cosmetic of
green and green?
Warrick: The roadway is more than just the street section, curb to curb. The
roadway includes greenspace and sidewalks on either side. That is what
we need to address. I think we just need to sit down together and decide
what the street section is going to be and whether or not we are going to
utilize 80' of right of way or look to obtain a full 90'.
Shackelford: Dawn, who is going to sit down and decide this?
Warrick: Planning, Engineering and the applicant.
Shackelford: For the record, for what it is worth if you want my opinion great, if you
don't then you can ignore it. I don't particularly...
Anthes: Wait. Would any member of the public like to address PPL 04-1176? Sir,
will you come forward and stand at the podium?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 29
McFarr: My name is James McFarr and I live north of that property. Several years
ago the sewer that was running along Mt. Comfort they said was at 98%.
They put a lift station in when they did Salem Village. How close are we
on the percentage of sewage for this project? Is there enough sewage to
carry these 255 homes or are they going to come through Salem Village
and pump it back up because they have a lift station there.
Anthes: Mr. McFarr, if you will just tell us all of your comments and then what we
will do is get them all together and answer.
McFarr: I just want to know if there is enough sewage and when they build the
bridge across there for Rupple, are they going to do something to Clabber
Creek to carry this extra water that is going to be shed because all of the
houses are going to be built and there is no land to absorb this extra
water? That is the only things I'm really worried about.
Anthes: Those are good issues, thank you very much. I know you have sat here for
a while to have your time to talk. Would any other member of the public
like to address this item? Seeing none, I will close it to public comment
and let's address Mr. McFarr's questions. Matt, can you talk about the
sewage capacity in that area and what has been done?
Casey: I can't give you the numbers but there is remaining capacity in the lift
station that this will be going to. Their plans show installing a new lift
station that will pump over to the Salem Village area and enter into the
Crystal Springs lift station which is what I was referring to as having
plenty of capacity at this time. I want to inform you that this is another
route, just like earlier in the agenda, for trunk lines for the new wastewater
treatment plant. They will be running right along Clabber Creek here.
The plans will be to take this new lift station that they are going to build
out of service when that is constructed. This project will be relieving all
of these lift stations in the area. Most of them will be abandoned all
together and the sewage will be going directly into the trunk lines and
taken to the plant.
Anthes: What is the time frame on that?
Casey: It should be operational in three years. That is the plan anyway.
Anthes: Can we talk about parks and do you have any comments about Clabber
Creek?
Brady: No, just the drainage outflow will need to remain on their property. All of
the parkland dedication requirements are being met with this development.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 30
Bates: How exactly do you want this to happen? Do you want to just sit down
and talk about it or how do you want me to show it?
Brady: We can sit down and talk about that.
Anthes: Matt, how is that outflow calculated and are we meeting all city
requirements?
Casey: The developer's engineer is showing two rather large detention ponds on
the south side of the project which will intercept all of the storm water
runoff from the development and a requirement of the city, there are three
detention ponds, excuse me. The requirements of our division are that
there be no increase in flow from the site. The flow will have to be
detained in these ponds and restricted to at or below the existing flow
leaving the site at this time.
Anthes: Those calculations have been met?
Casey: They have submitted preliminary drainage designs that show that the pond
sizing is proper for this design. We will review the detailed drainage
calculations at the time of construction.
Anthes: Do these ponds allow outflow in trickle like some of the other projects in
this area?
Casey: We will have to coordinate with Parks on that is discharged. Normally we
see some sort of wear structure or just a pipe coming out of the ponds but
we will have to be sure to get that in a way that is satisfactory to the parks
property and where it is dissipated and causing no erosion control on this
parkland.
Anthes: We have had some other properties that have been developed in this area
where we have had some problems with that. Do we have a new way to
handle that in place so that we don't end up with those?
Casey: I don't know if there is new ways but there is new awareness of things that
don't work. We can definitely work through that towards the design
process.
Anthes: I agree with Mr. McFarr that we have had had some very severe problems
with some outflows in subdivisions in that area and I would want to look
at this really closely as we go forward. Are there any other comments or
questions?
Barnes: I have a comment if I could. At this time I would like to discuss that
Rupple Bridge a little more with a little help from Matt. Obviously, that is
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 31
a large body of water that we are going to span and that is going to be a
very expensive bridge to build. I would just like to make a comment at
this time that the money that is being collected and/or what will be
collected, is a small percentage of what that bridge will cost to construct.
We are making a conscience effort to try to provide something more in
order to develop this property. I also, in regard to the trees, I thought I
understood the tree preservation to be during the process of development
to try to protect as many significant and quality trees as we could to allow
the opportunity for lot owners/home owners to choose to have those trees.
That is what we have done by not allowing infrastructure to go through
that body or grove of trees. It will then be a home owners decision
whether he wants to remove that tree or not to construct his home. He
may choose to build a smaller home to save trees or a larger home. What
we are showing here now is a 3,000 sq.ft. home so that would be 2,500
sq.ft. of living with 500 sq.ft. of garage. That is a large home.
Bates: That is a footprint that would be all one story.
Barnes: That is correct. It could be reconfigured to save trees. Developers love
trees too. We like trees on lots. Those are good lots to sell.
Vaught: I have a question on the third detention pond lot. Which one is it? I see
two marked, I don't see the third.
Bates: It is lot 192.
Vaught: Is it marked un -buildable on the plat?
Bates: It should be unless it got left off somehow.
Casey: The detention ponds are on lots 155, 152 and 258.
Shackelford: Regarding my earlier comments, on street width, I know we were talking
about how we are going to address that and that is obviously, something
that you guys are going to have to work through with staff. For the record,
I don't particularly like offsetting a street. I think it causes dangerous
traffic patterns. I don't know that I would support, obviously, I don't have
a dog in that fight. But, for the record, my comments are that I don't
know that I like to offset the street 10' to allow for mirror images of
greenspace on each side of the road. I think that we need to look at safety
and traffic patterns. What we are giving up on that offset to get the
additional greenspace.
Anthes: I have a few comments and then we will look at the conditions of
approval. I appreciate that you have connectivity in most directions but I
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 32
do have some questions. These street sections, can we go over what street
widths we have built here and our setbacks and our sidewalks?
Bates: Almost all of them are 28' except the cul-de-sacs are 24' and I think
maybe this little street here and here is 24'.
Anthes: Do you plan to allow parking on these streets?
Barnes: No, I believe we choose not to have parking in the streets.
Anthes: If that is the case, 28' is really wide. That is a width that accommodates
parking on one side of the street. The problem is we have recently heard
from a lot of neighborhood residents who are coming through in
subdivisions that have been built with these long, straight streets and they
are calling them raceways and we are having a lot of problem with
speeding traffic in those neighborhoods based on the width of the street
and the configuration of the streets. I guess I need some information from
staff about what we can look at. We have lot configuration and we can
look at street patterns and I believe if we are not proposing on street
parking here we have got a situation with long straight a -ways that are
connecting through these neighborhoods. What latitude do we have to
look at how this is designed and laid out?
Warrick: I believe the Planning Commission can make a determination, should
make a determination with regard to safety and the configuration of the
street and the amount of traffic generated by the development. If the
Planning Commission believes that the street configuration or widths
contribute to or cause a dangerous traffic condition that would be grounds
for denial of this project.
Anthes: I, for one, am pretty concerned about it, especially in light of information
that we have been hearing lately. Those street widths, we are talking
about 28' with 14' lanes. That is wider than highway widths.
Bates: It is not something that would be controlled by stop signs and speed
bumps?
Anthes: That would be something that you would have to work through with City
Engineering. If you look at the streets in our town there is a count that has
to do with width. You have to meet a whole lot of criteria to get a stop
sign and as of now we have not allowed speed bumps in the community.
That is something that comes from Perry Franklin's office. We are
looking at this in terms of design and what we see is a design condition
that might be exasperating traffic problems.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
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Bates: I met with Engineering and staff before we did any of this. We went over
this lay out. We did make some changes and we did decide to put this
road in. We were going to access through this subdivision and this new
subdivision but we decided it would be better for everybody to go ahead
and contribute the money to build that bridge. We talked about street
widths and all of that.
Barnes: If I might add, if staff would support it we would love to construct and
build a 24' wide street to eliminate that 14'. We would love for that
opportunity. With the success that we have had with Clabber Phase I and
Clabber Phase II with the infrastructure, that is going to dictate a lot of
that to their neighbors. They control a lot of that.
Shackelford: I understand where you are coming from. This is just something that has
got a lot of conversation recently. It is conceptually something that we do
need to talk about. The neighborhood that we are talking about was
Barrington Park which has very wide, long streets. I actually built a house
on Buckley and lived out there and watched it and I know what she is
talking about. I see a lot of the same issues. This road A, if it stubs out
for future development to the west if it is 28' long in that straight there
could be some issues. I don't want to deny this project over the street
widths but I think it is something that you, as a developer, ought to think
about because it could be an issue within this project if you leave those at
28' width streets.
Anthes: In this long, straight configuration. Also, we have a creek and a parkland
dedication and all the backs of these homes actually back up to it. I'm not
seeing connections through to that parkland and I think that is a missed
opportunity for the residents in this neighborhood to have access and I
would like to see that. We have got extraordinarily positive that you are
extending Rupple Road and going for the construction of that bridge. That
is something that this entire area needs. I guess we can work out the
issues of the design of that with staff. I'm concerned though that Salem is
backing up to it and whether we are ending up with a fence to fence
condition along Rupple. The other thing is that these outlets Street A and
C sort of line up but then kind of miss the outlets of Salem and we are not
having cross access there. Is there any way to, I know that this is sort of
an irregular arrangement.
Bates: Those are alley ways.
Barnes: The only connection to Salem is through James is that right?
Bates: That is correct.
Anthes: So this doesn't actually come out to Rupple?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 34
Bates: No.
Anthes: Ok, I couldn't tell from the drawing.
Bates: We are required to put a 10' sidewalk along this line to get to the park.
We have made the park dedication of approximately 40 acres that was
dedicated to the city and we are getting this. This is to be part of a
walking trail is my understanding so these will have access through or to
this.
Anthes: What I'm saying is if you live on Lot 219 and you want to get to the park,
and you have made a substantial contribution to the city with this
parkland, and therefore, you would think that that would be a substantial
amenity for your neighborhood. If I live here and have to walk to here to
get down to a street to get out to it because there are not connections here
at some point it is not a big amenity to me.
Barnes: We have easements through those detention areas.
Anthes: As long as we could come through some how to make those connections.
If we could work through making connections to the parkland I think that
would be really beneficial for the residents of this area.
Shackelford: Some of those irregular shaped lots could do a trail off the back of the cul-
de-sac I would think.
Barnes: That is not a problem.
Anthes: I need to defer to a lot of the Landscape Administrator comments about
these trees on the west side. He feels very strongly that we need to look at
reconfiguration there. Leaving it up to the individual homeowner doesn't
give us the kind of control we have as we look at it at this stage on those
trees.
Barnes: Control?
Anthes: Well, we can designate a tree preservation area and reconfigure these lots
to assure that those trees will stay or we can say we can leave them now
and leave it up to individuals. As a city if we are looking at those as
important trees that we want to remain the former is the way we can be
most assured that those trees will continue to exist after the construction of
these homes.
Barnes: Then again, I might add, I thought the preservation for trees was designed
to allow the people in the public the opportunity to choose to do what they
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 35
would like with those trees. I didn't realize that we were trying to control
what trees we would or would not save. We are making a conscience
effort during development stages to save this grove of trees. These people
will then have the opportunity to choose what they do on that said lot.
That is their property, that is their tree.
Pate: If I could respond to that, I tend to agree with Mr. Barnes in a lot of ways
there. There are a lot of trees, especially when we look at residential
subdivisions, single family lots are expressly exempt from tree
preservation requirements. If you want to go in and build a house and
there is a big tree on it, even though it was preserved during the
subdivision you don't necessarily have to keep that tree. That is what we
have looked at over this entire 75 acres. The developers have worked to
try to locate some of the lots where the trees are on the property line so
you would have a buildable envelope within that area that you could go in
and build a home, grade that site, and keep those trees. My concern kind
of rests back on this larger group which is the majority of the trees on the
property, as you notice by the numbers, they are only about 11% existing
on 75 acres, that is 8 acres of trees that are existing on the property and 3
'/2 proposed to remain. 1 '/2 is again, from lots 202 to 213. I think there
potentially could be, if the street widths are reduced in this area if it is not
a through street that could add a little bit. We don't look at covenants or
new zoning restrictions at the time of Preliminary Plat so it is not
something that we could really rely on covenants or a Bill of Assurance
for. It is really just the design of the project if there is a larger lot
configuration. I am not sure exactly what size of homes this developer is
looking at building on this lot. This will help in some of those
determinations though.
Barnes: More concerning to me is looking at this now as we are sitting here, we
have got a street that goes through a grove of trees that we are going to
lose approximately five or six trees. We could propose to move that
intersection that is going westbound, that stub out, from A to C and save
those four or five trees and bring that intersection through the west where
there are no trees. Staff is supportive of that. That is saving four or five
quality trees that could sit on a lot.
Bates: If we reduced the building setbacks in the front to 20' instead of 25' that
would save some of these others that were maybe 5' from the tree.
Warrick: That is a violation of city code. We can't reduce that setback without the
Board of Adjustment granting variances.
Barnes: B being a narrowing street would help with that right of way and would
help provide more greenspace on those lots. Is that correct?
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September 3, 2004
Page 36
Shackelford: Yes.
Bates: Wouldn't the right of way be the same?
Barnes: We could narrow it to a 40' right of way on that section of Street `B".
Bates: That will give you 5' more.
Shackelford: On this conceptual drawing we have to remember that those envelopes are
I think, way worse case scenarios. I think that if you look at a 3,000 sq.ft.
footprint there are very few houses that I finance that have 3,000 sq.ft.
footprints. Typically, you go smaller and go up for a typical development.
I also see situations on these types of lots that the homeowners do work
very hard to save these trees because it adds value to the overall project. I
understand where both sides are coming from on this. I don't think it is
going to be as big of a concern in reality as what this drawing might show.
I also support the ability to try to give as much room as possible to save
those trees as we can.
Anthes: I don't have any problem with discussing reducing that right of way to
allow that. Do you?
Shackelford: No.
Barnes: I would dare say that those will be the first lots to sell.
Shackelford: I would agree.
Pate: I would agree with that as well. That provides a buffer to the west as well
and that is really why these are significant and part of our discussion
today. Typically, when we review these plats we use a 65x65 footprint
because obviously, the buildable area is outside the walls of the structure.
You have to get your equipment in there and around those lots to actually
construct those lots. The 65x65 on a standard RSF-4 lot with a 70' width
is what we typically use for that. That is where we are coming from.
Anthes: Let's go through the conditions of approval here and make sure that we
are covering everything. Connectivity, obviously, we are connecting to all
three directions and then providing walking trail connectivity to the
parkland. The internal streets, as they are currently configured, do have
multiple connections to one another. I am still extremely concerned about
the design of the street pattern and the length of these long, wide straight
streets. In light of what we are hearing from other developments around
the city and I believe we might be contributing to an unsafe condition
there. The waiver request for the cul-de-sac length, commissioners, how
do you feel about that?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 37
Vaught: I don't necessarily have a problem with that. You are not looking at, the
lots at the end are larger so I don't think that the traffic going down will be
as great as it typically would. It gives access to the park too if you can do
some easements through there. Also, just the unusual layout of the land.
The land kind of dictates what they need to do to access that part of the
property in a way. To me it is not a problem. I could support the waiver.
Shackelford: I agree. I think it is site specific to this property given Clabber Creek. I
think that the developer is doing a good job at donating the land and as we
have stated earlier, if we could get some sort of trail or walkway access off
the back of those cul-de-sacs to the parkway I think that is a very good
compromise for everybody at the table.
Anthes: I would agree with that. The property line adjustment to remove lot 259
could be straight forward and something you would be able to do. If we
could work with staff on condition five to look at the right of way
dedication and other site modifications that might be used to assist us with
those trees on the west side. Again, to emphasize condition seven, that
goes directly to the public comment that we had about outflows of water.
Bates: We put our outflows, there is an existing ditch where both ponds are and
that is where our outflow structure is. It is going to go right where the
water has been going for years.
Barnes: One thing that will help Clabber too is once there is a bridge and some
drainage infrastructure corrected for this crossing it is going to eliminate
some ponding that is there now. It is pretty marshy, it is pretty sprawl,
that water just sits up there. Once we define that area where that water
releases further west I think it is going to help a lot of things back to the
east. All of that land has been pretty marshy for years. Those
improvements as that road crosses that area I think it is going to help that
also.
Bates: The third pond needs a little checking on where we are going to do the
outlet structure.
Anthes: Matt, will you work with them on the clarification of that.
Vaught: What was the consensus of the internal street widths and what are staff's
thoughts on reducing those to 24' throughout?
Warrick: If we were to look at a historic grid pattern in this neighborhood where we
had a traditional lot and block type of arrangement staff would be able to
support a 24' street segment for all of them. That is not what we are
looking at in this configuration. There are not enough intersecting streets
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 38
and it is not what you would see in a historic lot and block type set up.
We are certainly amenable to working with the applicant on making some
modifications to street widths and looking at that. I think that would be
the configuration that staff would be able to support if that were desirable
to the applicant. We would have to look at block and lot dimensions that
were more compatible with a 24' street.
Vaught: What about reducing the right of way to 40' to provide some additional
setback against those trees?
Warrick: I think that we can certainly look at that. The issue with that though is that
"B" continues to the north. When we look at the unknown we are looking
at a stub out which is desirable and we do want to see a connectivity to
adjacent future developments. We don't know enough about how that
might be configured and we might have to have some sort of awkward
transition in street widths at that location so I'm a little bit hesitant to say
that. South of "A" street, just that southern section. I think it would be
more desirable if we could look at something more uniform instead of just
picking and choosing one or two streets that we would modify. It is going
to be very confusing in the long run if we do this piece meal.
Pate: I will add to that with our Master Street Plan street width requirements, the
street sections located in the Master Street Plan of the General Plan 2020
call out specifically, car trips per day to carry a specific number of vehicle
trips per day. If you utilize the lot, block system, it has more options to
get places and therefore, you can reduce the street width. When you are
carrying so many cars per day from all of these lots accessing on one road
however, the 28' wide street becomes a local street as opposed to a
residential street section. That is our guideline to go by.
Shackelford: I understand the guideline but I think we are hearing from real life
experience that this may not be working as well as what we thought it
would whenever we drew these ordinances up. If we have any flexibility
in that area I think it is something that we ought to at least look at.
Anthes: the way that it is laid out with this grid I would really appreciate if the
developers would be more amenable to going back and look at more of a
lot block system with staff with a 24' street grid it is going to change this
layout some but I'm very concerned about safety on these streets and I
would prefer seeing this at Subdivision Committee level again after you
had time to work through those changes.
Bates: To me the easiest thing to do would be to put stops, three way stop, three
way stop and a four way stop. They are not going to ever have time,
unless they just floor it. They are just 800'. There is not enough room if
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 39
traffic dumps into all of these locations then there is no way that you could
get the speed up.
Anthes: Then we would have to go and work with Perry Franklin and have him
analyze the situation and tell us whether under city regulations those stop
signs would be warranted at those locations. Which, again, brings me
back to the fact that I think that we need to hold off on this a little bit
because there are a lot of questions.
Barnes: Dawn, what is the minimum lot standard for the historic lot and block
subdivision?
Warrick: If you look at a traditional downtown or a more historical type
neighborhood you see 50' lots. This property is not zoned to allow for a
single family home on a 50' lot unless you choose to go through a PZD
process. The lot size requirement for the RSF-4 zoning district is 70' of
frontage and 8,000 sq.ft. lot area.
Shackelford: I go back to this is kind of a property specific development with Clabber
Creek and all the parkland dedication. I don't know that this lies out for a
standard lot and block style development.
Bates: You are going to have big cul-de-sacs that won't work with traffic.
Anthes: The streets don't have to be straight either. You introduce some curves
into those streets. You don't have topography here that dictates one way or
the other. You have a big natural amenity that is the current situation that
you could play up to.
Shackelford: I think that dictates topography with this big natural amenity.
Anthes: It drops off here. It just seems to me that there would be a way to
introduce some curvilinear patterns into these streets that would also slow
cars down. Balancing that against street widths, obviously, we see what
you have already done. As a Planning Commissioner at this level, one of
the findings that we have for which we can approve or deny a project is
street configuration and perceived safety. I have some big concerns with
it as it is currently drawn.
Shackelford: I understand those concerns. If they have drawn it to the ordinances as
they exist now regarding street width, I don't know that I'm in a position
to tell them that they need to scrap everything they have done and redraw
it. As the ordinances are written now and staff does not recommend
reducing these street widths because the 2020 Plan and the ordinances in
place call for those street widths.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 40
Anthes: In the current configuration. There is an alternative configuration that
would possibly work that would allow that.
Shackelford: My understanding is staff is supporting this development in the
configuration that it is now with the street widths as they are. Is that
correct?
Anthes: It says Planning Commission determination of appropriate
interconnectivity. I believe it is on us to make the finding.
Warrick: Staff has found with regard to connectivity in your staff report. We are
concerned about safety in this development. Because of the very straight,
very long street sections that are wide we have seen in other subdivisions
and are concerned that the design of this subdivision may be encouraging
very fast traffic through a residential neighborhood. While stop signs are
tools they are generally tools that are used after the fact when a design has
failed within a residential neighborhood. If we can come up with a design
that creates a slower traffic volume or traffic flow through the
development, it is a more safe situation and you are not necessarily having
to rely on those fall back tools such as stop signs.
Shackelford: If staff is concerned with the traffic pattern as it is drawn but staff does not
support reducing street width as an amenity or a way to alleviate that
concern. Is that correct?
Warrick: The adopted Master Street Plan requires a 28' street when you load in
more than 400 vehicle trips per day. There are alternatives. That's staffs
suggestion that we look at alternatives to provide additional outlets and
options within the street configuration of the development. As I said, the
lot and block system would provide for more connections, would allow for
a reduction of street width.
Vaught: Dawn, what do we do? You guys are recommending that we forward it to
the full Planning Commission. That is why I'm stuck. It sounds like you
guys want to work with the developers on the design a little more and
hopefully alleviate some of these problems. What does staff recommend
we do right now?
Warrick: I will be glad to change our recommendation now to come back to
Subdivision Committee if the applicant is willing to work on some
solution.
Bates: Normally I don't say anything but I came in with this plat before we did
thousands of dollars worth of work and you all looked at this layout and
you asked me to put a stub out here and a stub out here. We sat down
before we started doing this layout and everything and everything was ok
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 41
with it. Now we get to here and there are a couple of questions and you
are asking that we scrap the whole thing after we spent weeks and weeks
on this?
Warrick: I'm not saying that this would require scrapping the whole thing. What
you have shown here is a start to a standard lot and block setup. It is just
not quite there.
Barnes: Obviously, Dawn, the character of this land dictates, the narrowness as we
enter here dictates that. The number of lots that are drawn here has been
dictated by the infrastructure that we have to provide to get to this land to
develop it. The crossing of Rupple itself and then also the widening of
Rupple Road to 36'. We have shown what we felt like was a good effort
to try to make these improvements. I'm not saying that they are above and
beyond, I don't know. We haven't been argumentative. Matt has said
time and time that we have a small minimal amount to contribute but we
said we will build the bridge, we will construct the bridge.
Anthes: I'm totally in support of what you are doing with Rupple Road and the
parkland dedication and the fact that today we have been able to work out
those connections. You are must understand, we have a multiple tiered
approval process for this very reason. We are charged as a Planning
Commission, with looking at certain things. Traffic patterns and safety is
a big one that we are charged with and if we are seeing something that was
missed before, I hear what you are saying and I think that what Ms.
Warrick is saying is that there might be some minor modifications that
could get us closer there that would not require scrapping the project, but
we would appreciate it if you would have a look at that with us so that we
don't fall back on our job of identifying problems before they are built
into aproject.
Shackelford: My only concern is I don't consider going from this to a lot and block
system a minor altercation. I just don't see that.
Anthes: That is some sort of medium that we can work through. I would like to
give them the opportunity to do that, to come to a compromise solution
and come back to this committee with it.
Shackelford: I struggle with this, and I have for the six years that I've been doing this, if
we give direction to the developer, they develop something that is within
the ordinances, there is something that is a new hot button, and quite
honestly this street width and traffic calming is something that is very new
to conversations that we have been having. I don't know that if they meet
minimum conditions, they meet the ordinances as are drawn, I hate to
scrap a project that has gotten favorable input to this point and ask them to
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 42
redraw the whole thing. If it is a minor altercation I'm fine with it but I
don't know that we need to completely reinvent the wheel at this level.
Anthes: Would you be willing to have them go back and try to make some minor
modifications to try to come to a compromise that would work?
Shackelford: Absolutely.
Vaught: I would say to add to that, I think that Street "A" is the main concern and
"C" is the secondary. The rest of it I don't have a problem with. I agree
with Commissioner Shackelford's comments and I don't think, you know,
I'm torn but I would not mind tabling it for two weeks just to see what you
guys could do. I understand you are concerned and your frustrations with
the process. There could be some minor things to do, I don't necessarily
think that we should totally redesign the project.
Bates: What do you have in mind? I don't even know where to start.
Vaught: That is what I'm saying, work with staff. Obviously, they have got some
ideas. See what you come up with. See if there is a way. If not, I would
be fine seeing this exact same project back here. I would be willing to
forward it to Planning Commission and let you guys see at that level how
you do with the full Commission. That's what I'm saying. I'm not talking
about indefinitely. Just give it a shot, give it two weeks. If you guys can't
come to an agreement bring it back and we will see what we can do. I will
forward it to the Planning Commission as a whole if you guys give it this
effort and you can take your chances at that level and see how you do.
Anthes: I think that is a really good compromise so I will move to table PPL 04-
1176 to the next Subdivision Committee meeting.
Barnes: Is there not that opportunity or time for us to discuss that to allow this
project to go forward? Obviously, we do have that time where winter is
approaching us. We would like to be out there. We have several other
stages to go through with Matt as far as construction drawings. Not being
able to forward this today at this level knowing that we are going to sit
down with staff and then get to the Planning Commission stage?
Anthes: We need to have a project that we mostly endorse before it goes to the
Planning Commission level. Otherwise, we are doing Subdivision
Committee work at Planning Commission and we can't really do that.
Barnes: Mostly it does besides two minor arterial roads that come through the
subdivision.
Anthes: I don't find that because of the safety concerns.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 43
Barnes: Ok.
Vaught: This will give you a little more time to work with staff. What are the
revision deadlines?
Warrick: Tuesday because it is a holiday on Monday.
Vaught: That doesn't allow enough time for you to really sit down and try to work
these things for the whole Commission to see new plans. That is my
primary concern. This will just extend the process two weeks. I know it
is two weeks and I'm sensitive to that fact. Dealing with the level of
concerns, I think that it is something that will be fair. Like I said, if you
guys can't find changes, I will be fine seeing this again as it is and I will
forward it to the Planning Commission and we will discuss these things at
that level with the full Commission.
Barnes: I just might ask Dawn and Jeremy at this time, do you see minor changes
to these streets that is going to help limit these long stretches of streets?
Anthes: We have a motion on the table that we need to take care of and shouldn't
be having this conversation back and forth at this moment. Can I take
your comments as a second Commissioner Vaught?
Vaught: Yes.
Anthes: We have a motion and a second. Commissioner Shackelford?
Shackelford: I tell you what, I will concur but I would ask indulgence. I would like to
hear for my benefit, what staffs answer to the applicant's question, what
minor alternatives you see to this as far as a lot and block configuration.
Warrick: I've been sketching out some options and primarily it includes some
additional north/south connections on these longer spans of double loaded
sections.
Shackelford: Ok.
Anthes: Thank you.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 44
PZD 04-1175: Planned Zoning District (RIVENDELL, 522): Submitted by DENELE
CAMPBELL for property located at THE NE CORNER OF CENTER STREET AND S.
GREGG AVENUE. The property is zoned I-1, HEAVY COMMERCIAL/LIGHT
INDUST and contains approximately 0.67 acres. The request is to approve a C-PZD,
Commercial Planned Zoning District with 4,675 sq.ft. commercial/retail area, 13
dwelling units and 26 parking spaces proposed.
Anthes: The final item that we will see today is PZD 04-1175 for Rivendell. Will
the applicants come forward?
Pate: This property is located at the northeast corner of Center Street and South
Gregg Avenue, also bound by Meadow Street to the north. The property
is currently zoned I-1, Heavy Commercial/Light Industrial and contains
approximately 0.67 acres. The applicant is requesting a C-PZD on this
site. The property is currently the site of several buildings that are leased
for music and band practices. The applicant requests a rezoning and Large
Scale Development approval for a mixed use redevelopment of this
property. The applicant proposes to completely redevelop the site by
constructing two multi -story buildings comprised of 4,675 sq.ft. of
commercial retail area. There are 13 one bedroom dwelling units and 26
parking spaces located on site. Associated development also includes
approximately 550 sq.ft. tea room and provisions for the continuation of
the Center Prairie Trail through the subject property. As you can note on
the elevations, probably most clearly, the two buildings are proposed to
access the trail at grade, fully utilizing the opportunity for pedestrian
connection to the downtown, University, Mill District and the Dickson
Street area with continued construction of this trail network. Total
proposed dwelling units, as I mentioned, are 13. Therefore, the proposed
density for this C-PZD is 19.4 dwelling units per acre. This property is
adjacent to public streets on three sides. Access to three parking spaces
near the tea room is proposed from Center Street across from the existing
curb cut. Access from Meadow Street allows for loading, two parking
spaces and potentially, a dumpster location. For Gregg Avenue the
applicant is requesting a Master Street Plan amendment to enable adequate
parking to be located on site. The request is to reduce just this portion of
Gregg Avenue to an alley classification allowing for full in parking
underneath the proposed building. This particular section of Gregg
Avenue does not currently carry a high level of traffic from Meadow to
Center and improvements to the pavement section will actually widen the
access to a minimum of 22'. Staff finds that buildings in this development
have been situated to create a desirable pedestrian oriented front along the
public trail to be coordinated with the Trails corridor of our Parks
Department. A multi use easement is being granted to facilitate the
construction of a new water line and a 12' wide multi -use trail. The trail is
to be installed by the City of Fayetteville Parks Division. The developer
intends to only build on the west side of the property, preserving the
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 45
eastern hillside as a natural woodland. A cohesive grouping of trees is
being preserved in this 30x230 area adjacent to the existing development
and along the steepest portion of the property. Staff recommends this
project be forwarded to the full Planning Commission with 20 conditions
of approval. I will go over a couple of those for you. They are Planning
Commission determination items and will need at least some level of
discussion today. 1) Planning Commission determination of Commercial
Design Standards. Staff finds that the submitted elevations for this
commercial part of this development meets all aspects of Commercial
Design Standards. Two and three are sort of combined, Planning
Commission determination of the requested Master Street Plan
amendment to reclassify Gregg from a Local Street to an alley. This
facilitates pull in parking for the currently low traffic volume street.
Planning Commission determination of a Vacation for Gregg Avenue right
of way. As you notice on your site plans, this line here currently going
through the existing building is where the existing right of way of Gregg
Avenue is. Obviously, this project cannot go forward as proposed unless
there is a right of way Vacation in this area, which has been submitted and
is tracking concurrently. You will see that as part of the Planning
Commission meeting. Staff is in support of that request. Item four,
Planning Commission determination of parkland dedication, which I will
allow Allison to go over if she would. Five, the applicant shall formally
vacate existing utility easements along Center Street to facilitate new
construction of stairs, walls, and garden patio south of the tea room. In
our Technical Plat Review meeting I don't think there will be a problem
with that. The utility companies seemed to express a relative sense of
comfort level with that. We just need to process that easement Vacation
prior to building permit. A couple of site plan revisions are conditions
number six, seven. Mr. Clark, on number eight, if you could confirm the
location of the right of way along Meadow Street. There was additional
right of way dedicated on the north side of Meadow Street with that
project. The full 50' I believe should be dedicated with this project and it
is not what is currently measuring out. If we could just maybe get
together and confirm that.
Clark: We do have a copy of that dedication.
Pate: Condition number twelve, I believe it has been relatively resolved. There
have been ongoing discussions with the applicant and the neighboring
property owner about a property line dispute, which is a civil matter. The
City Attorney asked me to put a condition of approval on this project,
however, such that if any dispute ever arises again or there is a legal
decision reached that development of this property will not infringe upon
the rights of the adjacent property owner.
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 46
Clark: He is addressing up here on the uphill side, on the east side of all of our
trees. There is an old fence line that doesn't coincide with the legal
description of this piece of property. The description was 50' either side
of the centerline of the railroad tracks that used to be there. If you use that
line it extends beyond where the fence line was. It is kind of a no issue in
that we are not developing up there anyway. We don't see a big issue with
that.
Anthes: Are there any other staff reports?
Brady: I just might go over that Parks Board did recommend a conditional
combination of money and land based on the fact that the 20' utility
easement goes through. If that doesn't go through then we will be looking
at a combination of money and land.
Shackelford: This $5,109 that you are recommending is assuming that the dedication
occurs, is that correct?
Brady: That the easement occurs.
Clark: That would be the full fee?
Brady: Yes.
Anthes: Would the applicants introduce yourself and elaborate on the project if
there is anything that you would like to add?
Clark: I'm Steve Clark, the Engineer.
Campbell: I'm Denelle Campbell the property owner.
Clark: I think it is pretty self explanatory. Denelle may want to discuss her plans
and thoughts are on it.
Campbell: We have tried to get it as far along as we could with a very modest
investment because we have so many questions that we are hoping that the
Planning Commission can help us with. I haven't been able financially to
maybe develop as much detail in my plans as I would like to be able to. I
just can't spend that money until I know if I can afford to develop the
project.
Clark: We have provided the information that you are typically used to seeing.
Anthes: Would any member of the public like to speak to this project?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 47
McGuire: My name is Mark McGuire. I am with the Pettus Law Firm. I just wanted
to make a real quick comment based on what Mr. Pate said. I represent
the Longer Property Management, LLC and it is concerning the borderline
dispute here. The one thing that I wanted to bring out is that we are not
objecting to the project at all. The only comments that were made was
just to bring the Commission's attention to the fact that there may be a
potential problem. As I understand it, it is a non -issue at this point. I just
wanted to reiterate that my client is not objecting to the project at all, we
just wanted to bring it to the Commission's attention.
Anthes: Do you agree that that dispute is in this area of the project?
McGuire: Yes.
Anthes: Thank you Mr. McGuire. Would any other member of the public like to
speak? Seeing none, I will close it to public comment and bring
discussion back to the Committee.
Shackelford: My comments are I agree, I think that we are well within Commercial
Design Standards with this project. As I drove out and looked at this
property Gregg Avenue looks more like an alley than it does a local street
at this point. I am going to be in support of the right of way issues. Parks
and Rec. sounds like it is being addressed associated with that as well. I
think that there is a lot of merit with this project. It is a very nice design.
I think it is really going to add to the area of town. I am going to
recommend that we forward to the full Planning Commission C-PZD 04-
1175.
Vaught: I will second.
Anthes: I just want to make a couple of comments. I do believe that this is a real
positive addition to this area. I think we need to just make sure that we
discuss the fact that Gregg Avenue is not platted to go anywhere north of
here, right?
Pate: Right of way has actually been vacated north of this. Meadow Street I
believe, before the railroad abandoned it a long time ago. That property
will never develop north of this as a street.
Anthes: With that overlay bringing this to 22' that will more than handle the
property generated by this particular property with backing out so we feel
comfortable with that configuration. The fact that this is contributing to
and building a big portion of the trail through there I think is extremely
positive. I do have a question about this retaining wall situation along
here. Do we know how tall that wall gets?
Subdivision Committee
September 3, 2004
Page 48
Clark: A foot or two. It is not really a wall. If you look at the existing bank
through here, the ground is near vertical at that point. We anticipate that
we will have to do a protection there and that will be some kind of a very
short, stacked wall.
Anthes: Excellent. This is really going to contribute to that area. Good luck. We
will see you in a couple of weeks at Planning Commission. I concur. We
stand adjourned.
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