HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-11-08 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held on Monday, November 8, 2004 at 5:30
p.m. in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain, Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ITEMS CONSIDERED ACTION TAKEN
ADM 04-1301: (FOGHORN'S) Denied
Page 3
PPL 04-1263: (BRIDGEDALE S/D, 569) Approved
Page 14
PPL 04-1264: (MAPLE VALLEY S/D, 363) Approved
Page 23
PPL 04-1271: (RIVER HILLS S/D, 569) Approved
Page 27
LSD 04-1266: (KEATING-TOWNSHIP BLDG., 290) Approved
Page 31
R-PZD 04-1154: (CLIFFSIDE, 526) Forwarded to City Council
Page 34
ADM 04-1304: (ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM/TERMINELLA) Approved
Page 43
MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT
Alan Ostner
Jill Anthes
Christian Vaught
Sean Trumbo
Nancy Allen
Loren Shackelford
Christine Myres
Candy Clark
James Graves
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Renee Thomas
Jeremy Pate
Dawn Warrick
Brent O'Neal
Kit Williams
Suzanne Morgan
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 2
Ostner: Good evening. Welcome to the November 8th meeting of the Fayetteville
Planning Commission. Renee, can you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call there were eight commissioners present
with Commissioner Graves being absent.
Ostner: Item number two has been tabled by the applicant. That is VAC 04-1255.
We will revisit that item at a later date. The first item is the approval of
the minutes from the October 25`h meeting. Do I have a motion for
approval?
Clark: So moved.
Allen: Second.
Ostner: Call the roll please.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the minutes was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 3
ADM 04-1301: Administrative Item (FOGHORN'S): The request is to appeal the
requirement for a sidewalk.
Ostner: The first item on our agenda is ADM 04-1301 for Foghorns. If we could
have the staff report please.
Pate:
Our first item tonight involves a project you saw recently with a
Conditional Use request for the Foghorns restaurant. Back in October, a
little less than a month ago, the Planning Commission voted to allow a
Conditional Use request for an outdoor music establishment located at
Foghorns restaurant, which is at 2175 N. College Avenue. All Conditional
Use Permits require the Sidewalk Administrator to make a
recommendation to the Planning Commission for either construction of a
6' sidewalk built to city standards and specifications or the other option is
a money in lieu fee for the sidewalk construction and that amount was
determined to be $1,579.50. The Sidewalk Administrator did make a
recommendation that the sidewalk be constructed in this area. His
findings are included on page 1.3 with a memo supplementing this packet.
His findings include a physical inspection of the surrounding properties,
existing sidewalks in the nearby area, potential for future pedestrian
connection and the need for these connections in this area, and then a
comparison of similar Conditional Use requests in the same area. As he
mentions in his memo, at least three other properties in this general
vicinity have had a Conditional Use request and been required to construct
sidewalks. The administrative item tonight is for the applicant to appeal
the Sidewalk Administrator's recommendation to the Planning
Commission based on applicable code sections, which I have also
attached. The request is to completely negate the requirement for a
sidewalk or money in lieu in this location. Staff's recommendation, which
was approved with the conditions of approval, was an ordinance
requirement in which all Conditional Use requests are subject to.
Attached is a memo from the appellant along with applicable code
sections, which you can find on page 1.5, stating that an owner or builder
may appeal the Sidewalk Administrator's decision to the Planning
Commission. Page 1.6 itemizes the required dedications and
improvements section and basically, the appeal is based on the applicant's
findings that the improvements are in excess of the rough proportionality
of the impact of the development on the city's infrastructure. Staff is
recommending in favor of the original conditions of approval and for
denial of this applicant's request.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 4
Hodges: I'm Jeff Hodges, owner of Foghorns. Really, Jeremy summed it all up
with what we are asking for. I brought with me photos of the subject
property from different angles.
Ostner:
Hodges:
Ostner:
Hodges:
Ostner:
Shackelford:
Williams:
Shackelford:
Trumbo:
Pate:
Does that complete your presentation?
Unless you have any questions. I'm sure you all have a letter too.
We can ask in a few minutes.
Ok, great.
At this point I will open it up to the public. Would anyone like to speak to
this issue? Seeing none, I will close it to the public and bring it back to
the Commission for questions, comments or motions.
I have a question of the City Attorney if I could please. My question, as I
look at this, is obviously, we are looking at this as an appeal process and I
look at this it could be appealed if the improvements were in excess of
rough proportionality. Is that rough proportionality in regards to the
existing use of the property or is it in regards to additional traffic that the
approval of this Conditional Use will add to this?
It would be the rough proportionality of the increase in needs to our
infrastructure. In other words, there is an existing property right now, but
now that they are asking for a different kind of use or an additional use,
then there may be some presumption that there will be an increased use on
our infrastructure. That is what you would be looking at. You have wide
discretion here as a Planning Commission determining what to do.
Basically, almost from one to a hundred, 100% of what the staff has
recommended down to 0% as they are asking, and anywhere in between so
you have a great discretion in here. Whatever you believe would fit the
rough proportionality requirements of our code.
Thank you very much.
He just showed us some photos that have a parking lot and then there were
some islands of grass and a couple of entrance signs. Is that where the
sidewalk would go or would it set back behind the islands?
It would actually be set back behind the island at the Master Street Plan
right of way line. If you look on page 1.17 of the packet, you can see that
island is out in the right of way, that is the current right of way. The
Master Street Plan right of way is actually back where that handicapped
spot is.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 5
Trumbo: So it would not go through the dirt islands?
Pate:
Trumbo:
Pate:
Vaught:
It would not.
It would just be on the pavement?
That is correct.
I would assume this would mean they would lose parking spaces because
you would be putting your sidewalk right through parking spaces.
Ostner: This is something most of us drive by everyday. I appreciate these photos.
The sidewalks are patchy along this stretch. However, there is also a dirt
cattle path of people walking anyway without the sidewalk. I think there
is a need for it I think there is a reason we have this on the books being
the requirement to have the sidewalk. I tend to think that we need to hold
the requirement in place.
MOTION:
Anthes:
Allen:
Williams:
I'm trying to think about recent action this commission has taken and I'm
remembering a motor car lot that we had a lengthy discussion about and I
believe we upheld the sidewalk requirement there. I think we have had a
couple of cases where the sidewalks were not able to be constructed
because there was some sort of a ditch or something in the area in which
case we took money in lieu, but I believe we took the full money in lieu in
those cases. Then I'm also referring to the departmental correspondence
from our Sidewalk Administrator where he claims that adjacent properties
to the north and south of this particular property were required to construct
sidewalks as part of the Conditional Use requirement. Seeing those things
and knowing that this body has the discretion but also bas the charge to
treat developments fairly and equally, I would move for denial of the
request for appeal of this item.
I second.
If you would please consider as part of any motion, you should determine
what the rough proportionality of the impact of this new facility is and
whether or not the question that is stated in the ordinance is whether the
required dedications, here we are talking about sidewalk, and the
improvements meet the rough proportionality of the impact of
developments on the city infrastructure that is being required. That really
needs to be a part of any motion about whether or not the required
development, the required improvements that have been sought by the
city, if they in fact, meet the constitutional test of rough proportionality
impact of this new business upon the sidewalk needs of the city. That
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 6
really needs to be addressed in any motion. It is not whether or not we
need sidewalks or whether they would be good here or not good here. The
whole test is whether their are new business, their changed business, it's
impact on our sidewalk infrastructure needs meet the requirements of
requiring them to build a sidewalk, is that a fair portion, their new
business, to the cost of building the sidewalk?
Anthes: That sounds like an economic assessment that we haven't really been
provided numbers for in our packet. However, I would say that I'm
thinking of other businesses, such as daycares that the building is already
existing and that business is existing, and we have assessed sidewalk fees
for those projects, as well as when I look at the area that this portable stage
will serve, it looks to about double the seating capacity of the restaurant.
Which, to me, you would have built a new fast food restaurant on that site
that only had internal seating like a lot of them do. In those cases, we
would indeed, assess the sidewalk. Without having hard numbers in front
of me and putting it on the test of basic conceptual plans and what this is
going to be for I believe we do meet those standards.
Ostner: Also, there is a neighborhood probably not 200 yards from this strip. The
Woodland Junior High and the entire neighborhood is to the west of here
and ideally, this restaurant, just like the Dickson Street downtown area
could be walked to quite easily from many neighbors in the area if there
were a way. I would tend to agree that our granting of the Conditional
Use did increase the possibility of pedestrians. To me, that addresses the
rough proportionality test.
Trumbo: It is an 8x8 stage so it is 64 sq.ft. only going to be used nine months of the
year hours from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. To me, it doesn't sound like the usage
is going to be enough to warrant this expense. I will probably be voting
against it on rough proportionality. I would be in favor of a smaller
amount of money in lieu but that is why I'm going to vote against.
Ostner: Just to be clear, I believe that the original Conditional Use was not for an
8x8 stage, but it was for outdoor music. That makes a big difference. That
changes a restaurant into an entertainment venue. To me, that
significantly changes your market.
Warrick: The applicant did build an 8x8 platform to provide for entertainers. They
also built a 784 sq.ft. deck area for outdoor entertainment to supplement
that stage.
Trumbo: I'm sorry, I thought we were just talking about an 8x8 sq.ft. space.
Vaught: I'm having trouble with rough proportionality a little bit. Our Conditional
Use was for outdoor music, not for a deck, not for a platform. In order to
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 7
have 100% assessment, I don't know, not knowing what our normal
calculations are, I know we have calculations on homes, I know we did
one on a daycare for increased traffic on Mission. Do we have anything
like that for a restaurant verses an entertainment facility as far as traffic
counts or expected use?
Warrick: Rough proportionality is a judgment call by the Planning Commission. It
is your decision as to whether or not you feel that the amount of impact
exceeds or is equal to the amount of improvement that is being proposed.
What we do for commercial development is if there is an option offered by
the Sidewalk Administrator, that option is to either install the sidewalk or
to play an equivalent fee based on the linear frontage of the property. That
fee is $3 per square foot. That is what we come to as far as how we base
this type of requirement. If this lot were wider than it is deep then maybe
there would be a situation. This particular lot is fairly narrow, adjacent to
College Avenue and deep running to the west. There is not a significant
amount of frontage when you compare the geometry of the lot. There may
be differences based on the size of different lots that you are considering
that might have impact based on the amount of foot traffic that they would
draw and whether or not it would then be proportional because of their
physical characteristics for instance. In this particular case they really
don't have a whole lot of frontage and I think it is reasonable to expect
that having this additional attraction at their place of business will draw
additional foot traffic as well as vehicular traffic.
Vaught: I wasn't at the last meeting, so if you could enlighten me on why we
struck the money in lieu option?
Warrick: That was the recommendation of the Sidewalk Administrator. When we
originally published the agenda we didn't have a hard recommendation
from him. His recommendation is for construction.
Shackelford: Obviously, if you read the minutes, I'm one of the ones that spoke out
about this requirement. Does outdoor music cause more foot traffic? I
think you hit the nail on the head that that is a judgment call that we have
the authority to have the discretion to make that call. Where I'm still
struggling is common sense wise. I personally don't know that not having
a sidewalk here interferes with pedestrian traffic anymore than having a
sidewalk here would encourage it. I struggle with the requirement to rip
up a slab of black top and replace it with a slab of concrete. It doesn't
connect to anything on either side. In my mind, this is a lot like some of
the Conditional Uses that we approved for the daycares earlier where we
gave the applicant the option for money in lieu instead of building a
sidewalk where there is already asphalt. I don't know what we gain by
that. I would ask the motioner if they would be willing to add the option
for money in lieu to the motion as it stands?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 8
Anthes:
Ostner:
Warrick:
Ostner:
Vaught:
Pate:
Ostner:
Shackelford:
I guess I would say that the Stephanie's Gentlemen's Cabaret is not
necessarily one that might add a lot of foot traffic for the same reason
outdoor music doesn't and yet they were required to install the sidewalk.
In the same way that we require sidewalks in residential areas to go
through driveways there is a visual cue that is given to pedestrians that this
is your zone and is not an auto controlled area and therefore, I would like
to see the sidewalk installed as per the recommendations of our Sidewalk
Administrator and city staff.
Staff, in granting this or considering it, do we have the latitude to over rule
the Sidewalk Administrator and offer money in lieu?
Yes you do.
I would tend to agree with Commissioner Anthes. The Sidewalk
Administrator, this is his job to decide whether a sidewalk is needed here o
if the money in lieu can be spent in the district better. We have that all the
time where a sidewalk is not appropriate and the Sidewalk Administrator
says if we just had that money in lieu we could build one over there where
we need it. I would tend to agree with the motioner.
I'm like Commissioner Shackelford. I have trouble with this for another
reason because we are losing parking spaces when we do this. Do they
still comply with our parking ordinance if they lose two spaces or
whatever they will lose?
I believe, based on their correspondence to you in the packet, they are
sharing spaces directly behind with the office building as well, so I believe
they would meet the requirement. I'm not sure how many spaces will be
lost.
We have a motion and a second, is there further discussion?
I'm going to vote against the motion, not necessarily because I don't think
we need sidewalks in this area or that this applicant should be treated
different than any other applicants. I honestly think the money in lieu is
the proper direction that we need to go in this area. I served on this
Commission prior to the money in lieu option. For many years we looked
at these projects where we required people to build sidewalks that didn't
tie to anything that ended at the property line, that replaced areas that
didn't need sidewalks. I believe Commissioner Marr and some other
people fought very hard to get this option in lieu for this specific
opportunity so that the Planning Commission can make a determination so
that this sidewalk that may or may not be used anymore or may or may not
tie into any additional sidewalks in the future needs to be built or if that
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 9
money could be better used in the neighborhood surrounding the
development. I think that is the proper decision to make at this point.
Although it looks like I'm voting in favor of treating this differently than
we have before, I'm voting against it for how the motion has been made.
My opinion is that we need to look at a money in lieu situation and try to
put this money to work in the district in an area that needs sidewalks more
than this particular business.
MOTION TO AMEND:
Vaught: I might make a motion to amend the motion to include the money in lieu
option.
Ostner: We will vote to consider the amendment.
Vaught: I will formally make that motion.
Shackelford: I will second.
Ostner: The motion is exactly to amend it to include money in lieu. Is there
further discussion on this amendment first? First we will vote on the
amendment and then if it passes or fails we will vote on the original
motion. Could you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to amend the original motion
to allow a money in lieu option was approved by a vote of 5-3 with
Commissioners Allen, Anthes and Ostner voting no.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of five to three.
Ostner: Commissioner Anthes' motion has been amended.
Anthes: My comment would be that if this piece, accepting money in lieu
essentially negates the sidewalk idea all together. Not because it is a
different piece of paving material but because this area is striped as
parking and there will be cars parked where this alleged, inferred sidewalk
will be. Therefore, I stand with my original statement. How does this read
now?
Williams: The motion would be the requirement for sidewalk construction meets the
rough proportionality of the impact of development on city sidewalk
infrastructure but the petitioner may choose money in lieu of construction
of the sidewalk. Is that what your motion should say?
Anthes: I would like to withdraw my motion.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 10
Allen: I would like to withdraw my second.
MOTION:
Shackelford:
Vaught:
Warrick:
Shackelford:
Clark:
Warrick:
Clark:
Warrick:
Clark:
I will make a motion as stated by our City Attorney Williams for the
record. That includes the finding of fact that the rough proportionality test
has been met and it does allow the applicant the opportunity to pay money
in lieu in the amount of $1,579.50 or build a sidewalk per sidewalk
specifications.
I will second.
Is that a motion to approve or deny?
Deny the request however, hold them to construction or money in lieu.
Can the Sidewalk Administrator, should we pass this motion and they
have the option to put the sidewalk in or pay money in lieu, can the
Sidewalk Administrator do an evaluation and determine gee, that is where
we need a sidewalk and use the money in lieu to put a sidewalk there?
Yes he could. There is a master sidewalk plan that the Sidewalk
Administrator assists in the development of and our Transportation
Division installs. They would use that to prioritize sidewalks within this
quadrant of the city if this area perhaps happens to be part of that then it
could be installed in this location.
I'm thinking that that might be part of what guided his suggestion that we
mandate a sidewalk to begin with?
There is several criteria that he uses. Whether or not people have actually
walked in the area. If there are worn pathways across grass or dirt areas,
whether or not it is a priority within the master sidewalk plan, whether or
not it looks as though there is a reasonable extension of other pedestrian
areas. Those are all criteria that are applied.
Let me ask you the silly civic question here. If we pass this as amended to
require money in lieu or a sidewalk, assuming that they are not going to
build a sidewalk, they pay money in lieu, how would a citizen who would
like to see a sidewalk across Foghorn's trying to get to Woodland Junior
High, go about pestering the Sidewalk Administrator to put one in?
Warrick: They can reach the Sidewalk Administrator through the Engineering
Division.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 11
Clark: Well isn't that neat!
Anthes: My intention of course, is to vote against this because of the reasons I
stated, but if I vote against the motion to deny, that is insinuating that I'm
in favor of the appeal, which I'm not so I'm confused.
Williams: I think your comments on the record are clear what your position is. I
wouldn't be concerned about it. Whatever way you decide to vote I think
people will know why you are voting that way.
Clark: If this motion fails then where are we?
Williams: Then we still have this issue before us and we'll work it out one way or
the other.
Allen: I would like my opinion on record too because this confusion of voting
against meeting for. It is kind of like the pole signs to me, if we don't start
somewhere trying to make that area more walkable then we won't start. It
has to be some place. I think that that area is starting to have pieces of
sidewalk so that gradually people will be able to walk along College
Avenue without fearing for their lives so I don't want money in hen, I
want a sidewalk.
Ostner: I would agree with you. The difference, is, as Commissioner Clark was
clarifying, if we ask for money in lieu the Administrator might have it
built here anyway. It might not be any time soon. It could be five years.
They have a lot of areas that need sidewalks. The money goes into a pot
and they are doling it out here and there. I think Foghorns has their
Conditional Use, they are in operation now. I think, I would be curious to
know Commissioner Shackelford, before the money in lieu option, did the
Sidewalk Administrator, he obviously didn't have the power, but it seems
to me that with the money in lieu option the Sidewalk Administrator is
making a very important decision whether it is needed now or it could be
used somewhere else. In this case he says now and I would tend to respect
that decision on his part since that is his job and he is a paid employee to
make that decision.
Clark: Does he have to make the rough proportionality argument to himself as
well?
Warrick: No, that is your decision.
Ostner: He is making a sidewalk decision.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 12
Myers: I am now so totally confused that I have no idea what I'm going to be
voting about. If somebody could clarify what this motion now says one
more time.
Ostner: This motion holds the applicant to either build it or pay the money in lieu.
Our previous approval two weeks ago did not give the money in lieu
option. It said you must build it. He wants to appeal the build it and he
wants to appeal the money in lieu. However, the current motion does not
address that, it simply says he must do one or the other. If you vote yes he
will either build the sidewalk or he will pay the money in lieu.
Myers:
Ostner:
Williams:
Vaught:
Warrick:
Ostner:
Roll Call:
Thomas:
MOTION:
Anthes:
Allen:
Ostner:
If we vote no?
Then he must build a sidewalk if it fails because the previous Conditional
Use will still hold is the way I understand it.
If this motion fails then there has to be a motion eventually that will pass
so we won't know until that motion is made what they are going to do.
I have one question for staff. The other two businesses cited in the memo
from the Sidewalk Administrator, Coolwater and Stephanie's, were they
required to build it?
They were required to build it. I think that both of those were prior to the
option and I believe at least one of those was in conjunction with a parking
lot permit.
We have a motion and a second. Is there further discussion? Could you
call the roll please?
Upon the completion of roll call the motion to deny the appeal but to allow
the appellant to either build the sidewalk or deposit money in lieu with the
city failed by a vote of 3-5 with Commissioners Clark, Allen, Myers,
Anthes and Ostner voting no.
The motion fails.
I move to deny ADM 04-1301 the request to appeal the requirement for a
sidewalk.
Second.
Shall we discuss this further? Could you call the roll?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 13
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to deny ADM 04-1301 was
approved by a vote of 5-3 with Commissioners Trumbo, Vaught and
Shackelford voting no.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of five to three.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 14
PPL 04-1263: Preliminary Plat (BRIDGEDALE S/D, 569): Submitted by
MILHOLLAND CO. for property located at 1341 ROBERTS ROAD. The property is in
the Planning Area and contains approximately 7.47 acres. The request is to approve a
residential subdivision with 25 single family lots proposed.
Ostner: The next item will be a Preliminary Plat for Bridgedale. If we could have
the staff report please.
Pate:
The subject property was recently annexed and rezoned to RSF-4 by the
City Council in August of this year. The property is located at 1341
Roberts Road, which is south of Huntsville Road. The property is zoned
RSF-4 and contains approximately 7.47 acres. It contains two tracts of
property, west of Roberts Road and accesses into the Stonebridge
subdivision to the west. It is surrounded primarily by single family
residential or vacant property at this time. The applicant, with this
Preliminary Plat, is requesting Preliminary Plat approval for a residential
subdivision with 25 single family lots proposed. The detention for this
subject project is proposed to be offsite on property located within the
Planning Area. A Property Line Adjustment will be processed to create a
legal lot for this subdivision. Total density of the property being
developed is approximately 3.27 dwelling units per acre which does meet
our zoning ordinance with a maximum of four units per acre. There are a
couple of changes in your staff report that I'd like to make. Primarily, the
reference to Eastpoint Drive on your plats has now been changed since the
last revision deadline. It is not called Pinnacle Drive. For the right of way
being dedicated, 40' for Pinnacle Drive is required. That was the stub out
from the Stonebridge Meadows subdivision. Staff is recommending that
that right of way dedication and the 24' street that was constructed extend
east to Roberts Road. Additionally, staff is recommending a 50' right of
way for Northpoint Street, a 28' wide street stubbed to the north and a 28'
wide street to be constructed with sidewalks on both sides. I would
mention that this is a departure, the Subdivision Committee voted to
change this recommendation and so we have a Subdivision Committee
recommendation and a staff recommendation in this case. That is outlined
in condition number one. The Subdivision Committee actually voted to
modify Northpoint Street to a residential street standard with a 24' wide
street and a 4' sidewalk within the 40' right of way. For Roberts Road,
staff is recommending improvements including 14' from centerline
widening including pavement, storm drains and 6' sidewalks along the
property's frontage. As per our ordinance requirements, staff has also
investigated the width of Roberts Road north of the subject property to
Huntsville Road, the nearest arterial. At no point does this existing street
have 20' of width. However, as you may have noted in the visit to the
site, there has been a recent overlay by the city from Huntsville south to
the city limits. That width ranges anywhere from 19' to 19' 10". As you
may have noted south of that city limit sign to the subject property, I'm
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 15
not sure what that dimension is, but that portion has not been improved at
all at this point. That is about 15' to 16' wide. I mentioned staff's
recommendation for Northpoint Street which stubs out to the north. Staff
retains our initial recommendation, a residential street, which is a 40' right
of way is designed to carry about 300 to 500 cars per day per our Master
Street Plan. A local street I believe is designed to carry 4,000 to 6,000
cars per day per our Master Street Plan. There are eleven lots shown
fronting onto this street currently with obvious connections in the future
either all the way out to Huntsville or to head back east toward Roberts
Road. The property is already developed to the west so there can be no
connection directly to Stonebridge Meadows at this time. Staff is
recommending approval of this Preliminary Plat at the Planning
Commission level. There are eighteen conditions of approval. I won't go
over all of those but I would mention item one, which is Planning
Commission determination of street improvements. There are three
specific streets in there that I've outlined in the staff report. If you would
just look over those in your findings. Also, Parks and Recreation Board is
recommending parkland fees for this property in the amount of $13,875
due prior to Final Plat. There are a couple of plat revisions there as you
can see. Obviously, the property line adjustment to create the detention lot
is required as well. An assessment in the amount of $5,500 shall be paid
by the developer prior to Final Plat for the un -constructed portion of
Northpoint Street stub out to the north (approximately 90' in length). I
believe all of the other conditions are self explanatory. If you have any
other questions feel free to ask.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and
tell us about your project.
Milholland: I'm Mel Milholland with Milholland Engineering representing the
developer. We concur with all of the items of the conditions of approval
with the exception of item one. I heard Jeremy state on the part of
widening Roberts Road from the north end of the proposed development
to it says Hwy. 16 but the city has already improved part of that up to the
city limits so there is still about 300' down through there. We would
concur to widen it if you change it from Hwy. 16 to the city limits, widen
it to 20' down to there. The city has already overlaid and paved to almost
20' leaving about 300' from there to the subject property. We do concur
with widening it to 20' on that one side. The other item is we concur with
the Subdivision Committee's vote to modify the condition on Northpoint
Street be reduced to residential street standards of 24' wide and a 4'
sidewalk and a 40' right of way. Any other questions, I would be happy to
answer them. Otherwise, we respectfully request your approval.
Ostner: At this point I will open it up to the public. Would anyone like to speak to
this issue?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 16
McDonald: I'm Doug McDonald, no relation to the property owner. I own property
that adjoins this property. I'm opposed to this at this current time due to a
number of conditions. Number one being the amount of traffic in the
morning and afternoons that occurs on Hwy. 16. Right now it is currently
hazardous to try to make a left hand turn in the morning out of
Stonebridge. We are already adding additional traffic with the new
Stonebridge addition, which is another 200 houses that is going to exit
either Roberts Road of Goff Street down to Hwy. 16. We either need a
stop light at Roberts Road to break up the flow or we need to widen Hwy.
16 to allow these cars to make the turn. My other concern is the number
of houses on this property and the amount of construction trash that I pick
up in my yard every morning just with the small amount of construction
that is going on in Stonebridge. I may as well live in the inner-city.
Ostner: Would anyone else from the public like to speak?
Roberts: Members of the Planning Commission, Mr. City Attorney, Kit Williams,
thank you for allowing me the time to come before you to discuss some
issues that I have with this development. My name is Eldon Roberts, I
live at 1197 S. Roberts Road. This property has been in my family for a
hundred years or more before it was sold to the people that the developer
just bought it from. To say that I don't know this property and know what
the lay of the land is and what the problems are out there would be a vast
understatement. I came before the Subdivision Committee two weeks ago
and talked to them about this. The property lays just exactly like a bowl.
The outside perimeter, 360° all the way around this property, is higher
than the center part of it. There is no natural drain to this at all. I assume
that the water can be channeled over to the new subdivision just to the
west there which is Stonebridge Meadows, but after speaking to Mr.
Milholland I understood from him that the city has provisions that you
can't take the water from one subdivision and send it to another one and so
that even heightened my concern. I spoke with Mr. McDonald and I'm
not here to oppose the development of this property. I know what he is
trying to do. He is trying to turn a profit and I hope he does. But, we have
a really serious problem with this drainage here. I don't know what the
seller told Mr. McDonald about the property and the flooding of it but I
know I told him personally before his deal was finalized what he was
getting into and he went ahead and bought the property anyway.
Whatever he is required to do to fix this properly where this won't be a
problem I don't think he should be surprised at. All of the houses I'm sure
are set to be built on the high part of this property which is just going to
enhance the runoff tremendously whenever we cover up the higher
elevations of this property with asphalt streets, concrete sidewalks,
concrete driveways, the houses themselves. That is going to increase the
runoff tremendously and it is going to runoff quicker and more runoff is
going to come from this because it is not going to be able to absorb into
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 17
the ground these areas that we cover over with all of this hard surface
asphalt and concrete. With that being said, I don't know who's
responsibility it is, whether it is this Commission's or the City Engineer, to
see that this is done correctly and that this problem doesn't become worse
than what it already is. Like I said, I have lived out there all of my life and
I'm 57 years old I think I know it as well as anybody in this room tonight
for sure what can happen out there. It would be easy to say that this
property doesn't flood, we have had some rain in the last few days. It is
not those kinds of rains, it is after a rain comes for a day or two that
saturates the ground, a slow drizzle for a day or two and then whenever a
rain comes behind that, a 2" or more rain, which we have several of in
this part of the country in any given year. At that point in time that is
whenever it floods. There is a lady just south of me, I think she has
written a letter where water actually gets in her garage. I don't know
where the water will go eventually it will build up deep enough to go over
Roberts Road I guess to the south of where I live but by that time it would
probably be 2' or 3' deep out in the lowest part of this low area that is
surrounded by the outside perimeter that is higher. The offsite detention
pond that they are referring to, it is offsite from where the houses are
going to be built, but it is still onsite as far as being within this property
that is surrounded by the higher perimeter on the outside. These ponds
that I'm seeing around town being built appear to me to have a means
about which they drain after they fill so full. If that is the case, these
ponds, once they fill so full are going to drain back out onto the same
piece of property in the low lying area where the outside edge is higher
than the center. I don't know what could be done but I'm asking that this
Commission or the City Engineer monitor this. The gentleman was told
what he was getting into before he ever bought the property so whatever
he has to do to make it correct, I don't think he should be surprised at.
Thank you for your time.
Ostner: Would any other members of the public like to speak about this
subdivision?
Pumble: My name is Jeff Pumble. I'm a 17 year resident of Roberts Road. I would
concur with both of the items that the previous people have stated. There
is definitely a problem with traffic as well as the water issue on the land.
Three or four times a year it definitely ends up under water. Aside from
the problems people mentioned earlier, it is kind of interesting for the kids
and I to go browse when it gets under water. I'm sure there is something
that could be done for that and I'm all for progress but we need to look at
the overall perspective of this land. There is a small corner of Roberts
Road, you guys come down probably ''A mile with the city limits and then
there is a spot where it is county road and as soon as it makes the loop it is
city again. I'm not sure why the discontinuity is there but it doesn't look
like it has been very well thought out as far as an addition to the city. I'm
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 18
right across Roberts Road from the land in question. I have been trying to
get into the city limits for a number of years. I know that sounds odd to
want to pay more taxes and things but in a long run I think it would help
me. I am all for the progress, I hope the extension goes in. I do feel that
that may be a few more houses on that tract of land than what is preferred
I suppose. It doesn't look like it is going to match that well with
Stonebridge Meadows as far as the size of the houses as opposed to the
amount of acreage per house. That is purely speculation on my part.
Those are some of my concerns and some of the statements that I would
like to add to this adventure. Thank you.
Ostner: Is there further comment from the public? Seeing none, I will close it to
the public. Mr. Milholland, if you would like to address us you may.
Milholland: Just to respond again to the comments regarding the existing conditions
that are there with Mr. Eldon Roberts and his neighbors. The city drainage
ordinance requires us to handle all additional increased flow, which we
have said before that we intend to do and I'm sure that Mr. O'Neal will
see that we are doing. He is familiar with this also.
Anthes: I have a couple of questions. Obviously, the drainage and the street width
were the two items that were discussed the most at length at Subdivision
Committee. As far as our recommendation from that level, we had
requested that Mr. O'Neal and Mr. Roberts and the applicant all go out
and visit the site and look at the conditions there and existing conditions
downstream and then have City Engineering look into this and make a
recommendation. I was wondering if staff had further comment
O'Neal:
Not at this time. I did get a chance to visit the site. I did not get to visit
with the applicant or Mr. Roberts however, I did look at the site during a
rain, but not a very hard rain. It was very difficult to see just how the
property drained. Other than that, I really can't comment on the existing
conditions not having witnessed it or having done a detailed study.
Anthes: That is frustrating for us of course. What we had come up with is we
understand that the drainage and the retention has to be calculated and it
has to meet city staff's approval before this project can be built. It is our
understanding in comments made that there is an existing pond that was
going to be widened, deepened and improved that in calculations was
going to over retain what was expected to be generated from this site and
therefore, actually make the runoff less than it currently is, is that true Mr.
O'Neal?
O'Neal: That is correct.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 19
Anthes: That is what we had to go on for our recommendation. The other question
that we had discussed was the widening for Roberts Road. Staff was
going to go out and see how far the city had actually improved that.
Would staff be able to tell us is 19'2" an accurate width that that road has
actually been widened by the city?
Pate:
It varies in different locations. I believe Mr. O'Neal measured in several
different locations anywhere from 19' to 19' 10" in some locations.
Basically, from Huntsville Road south to where the city limits sign is
about 300' or so.
Anthes: So we are talking about 2" or 10" of width that would be short of the 20'?
Why would we be requiring the applicant to put in a 2" to 10" strip of
pavement? It doesn't even seem possible to add a 2" strip of asphalt along
a road.
O'Neal:
I believe I can clarify that. In some locations the road is at 15' wide. I
believe that is at the point where the applicant is going to be building a
street to city standards. A standard requirement is that the street accessing
the site be a minimum 20' in width.
Anthes: Ok, the initial statement was that they would widen this road from their
property all the way to Hwy. 16 to 20'. What we were saying is perhaps it
only needs to go to the city limits sign because the city has already taken
car of most of it.
O'Neal: That is the case.
Warrick: That is not how it is worded but staff is comfortable with modifying that
condition to read to the city limit line instead of to Hwy. 16.
Anthes: Ok. The third item was about our recommendation to reduce the street
cross section of Northpoint. Our feeling was the east/west street was
actually the more heavily trafficked of those streets and that is already
built to a 24' cross section where it connects to other properties and then
Roberts Road is going to be a 20' overlay at this point. It was discussed
where this road might end up and it was my understanding that this road
would probably turn back and connect right back into Stonebridge
Meadows and therefore, not be a through street. That was why we were in
support of keeping it as a local street. Has staff changed their mind about
that?
Warrick: I don't think that there is a way for this to connect back into Stonebridge
Meadows. Those are developed single family lots. There is not another
stub out north of Eastpoint Drive that would allow for connection to the
west.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 20
Clark: Are you thinking that it is going to connect to Hwy. 16 now?
Warrick: It will very likely go either north to Hwy. 16 or north for a while and then
turn east to connect to Roberts Road again.
Anthes: We have eleven lots facing this now can you guess about how many more
lots we might actually have facing the street if that happens?
Warrick: It could easily be double that. But you also have all the other traffic that
could access this through street if it does become a through street in the
future. Meaning the traffic that comes through Stonebridge Meadows or
that is coming from the other lots in this development that could access
Northpoint Drive wherever it should end up.
Anthes: Do you feel like staff is making the recommendation for the 28' street
because we undersized the east/west connecter or that Roberts Road is
undersized because it is in the county?
Warrick: We are making that recommendation based on the numbers provided to us
through our Master Street Plan. If the Planning Commission wants to
rethink that to 24', that is certainly your decision. We have thresholds that
are provided in the Master Street Plan with regard to the number of
vehicle trips per day that certain street sections can provide for.
Anthes: Does the subdivision require a covenant on this property prohibiting on
street parking?
Milholland: I don't know for certain that he has covenants. I'm sure that there will be
because it is a nice neighborhood, he will require off street parking.
Anthes: I would like on street parking to slow cars down but if you are going to
have no on street parking and you have got a 24' width basically you've
got two 12' lanes and the traffic moves very quickly so I guess it is up for
debate. That's all I have. Thank you.
Ostner: If the subdivision directly to the west is any indicator, when we toured
there wasn't a single car on the street. The driveways are ample. They are
single family homes. That is just my opinion.
Shackelford: I served on Subdivision Committee and have looked at this once before. I
would like to speak a little bit about my thoughts on the street width for
Northpoint. One of two things I think will play out. Honestly, I think this
will probably turn and tie back into Roberts Road. I don't know that it is
going to go straight through to Hwy. 16. If it does go straight through to
Hwy. 16 it is going to make a rather long straight neighborhood road.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 21
Which, as we have seen several times recently on these Phase H, III, and
IV that have come in, a lot of neighborhoods are wishing that they didn't
have the 28' wide section strictly because of the flow of traffic, how
quickly it flows, and the safety for the kids and everybody else that lives
in that neighborhood. I was in support of this at Subdivision Committee
with the reduction to the 24' street instead of the 28' simply because if it
ties back into Roberts Road then it doesn't need to be a major road or if it
does go straight through to Hwy. 16 it is going to be a straight shot and
probably a narrower road is going to be a safer situation so I am in favor
of that. A lot of comments that we have heard tonight have a lot of merit
to them. Obviously, storm water runoff is very sensitive in this area. I
think the City of Fayetteville has done some good jobs in writing
ordinances in which there simply can't be anymore storm water runoff
based on development than there was prior to development. I have full
confidence that the city staff and the engineering firm that has been hired
here can manage and work that situation. The other comments, traffic is a
concern. There is no question about that. I agree that we need to widen
Hwy. 16 and put up stop lights. Unfortunately, that is not our call to
make. That is a state highway and that is their decision when and how that
happens. With all of that being said, I am going to make a motion that we
approve PPL 04-1263 with condition number one reading "The eastern
extension of Eastpoint Drive shall be constructed to a minimum of 24'
width including pavement, curb, gutter, storm drains and 4' sidewalk
located on one side of the 40' right of way. Northpoint Street shall be
constructed with a minimum of 24' width including pavement, curb,
gutter, storm drains and a 4' sidewalk located on one side within a 40'
right of way." The improvements to Roberts Road shall consist of 14'
from centerline standard street improvements with 6' sidewalks located at
the right of way line along the property boundary and widening of Roberts
Road north of subject property to the city limits to comply with city
improvements done from Hwy. 16 to this point.
Ostner: I have a motion. My question for the motioner, I'm not sure if you meant
to say this. You said storm drains and 4' sidewalks on one side.
Shackelford: Yes.
Ostner: We are not having 4' sidewalks on both sides in this case?
Shackelford: Based on our ordinances on a 24' street width inside a 40' right of way the
requirement is a sidewalk on one side.
Ostner: I am going to second the motion.
Anthes: Can you restate the motion?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 22
Shackelford: Approval as stated with the exception of Northpoint Road being 24' in
width with 4' sidewalks and 40' right of way. The improvements on
Roberts Road to be a minimum 24' pavement width extended to the city
limits to comply with the improvements done by the City of Fayetteville to
Hwy. 16 to that point.
Anthes: Thank you.
Ostner: Before we vote I would like to follow up on that when it comes time for
our City Council to review the Master Street Plan I would hope that they
would try to take these things into consideration. We keep coming back to
these time after time whether a 28' section is really appropriate for a
subdivision or whether a 24' might be more appropriate. Staff is doing
their job following the Master Street Plan that I believe needs further
review when that time comes. We have a motion and a second.
Anthes: If I can add a comment to that plea, that they also review the sidewalk on
one side of a street as part of that reduction. If we could trade 4' of asphalt
in a street bed for an additional sidewalk on the other side of that street I
think that would be a nice way to utilize what people are already expecting
to spend and give more back to pedestrians.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there further discussion before we vote? Could you call the
roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 04-1263 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 23
PPL 04-1264: Preliminary Plat (MAPLE VALLEY S/D, 363): Submitted by DAVE
JORGENSEN for property located at 2809 MT. COMFORT ROAD. The property is
zoned RSF-4, SINGLE FAMILY - 4 UNITS/ACRE and contains approximately 5.69
acres. The request is to approve a residential subdivision with 20 single family lots
proposed.
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is PPL 04-1264, Maple Valley subdivision.
If we could have the staff report please.
Pate:
The Planning Commission recently saw this property as well, with a
rezoning from P-1, Institutional to RSF-4 under the name Brizelle. The
property is located south of Mt. Comfort Road approximately 1/4 mile west
of Deane Solomon. It is basically behind and beside the location of the
Fayetteville Baptist Church. The church property is included as an out lot
of this subdivision. It is all part of one or two pieces of property with this
subdivision we are sort of cleaning up some property lines and this will be
an out lot of that subdivision. The entire acreage consists of 7.71 acres,
5.67 of which, is being developed at this time. The request is for 19 single
family lots with approximately 3.35 dwelling units per acre density. One
additional lot is proposed for detention. Surrounding properties are single
family homes and agricultural fields at this time. I believe most of the
issues were worked out at Subdivision Committee level. One of the issues
that did come up was about the dead end streets and turn arounds. I
wanted to clarify a few things. The city operates under the 2000
International Fire Code and under that code it states that dead end streets
must be provided with a turn around if over 150' in length. This turn
around may be designed in three manners. A cul-de-sac, a hammer head,
or a hammer head alternative, which is a Y shaped configuration. This
applicant is not proposing to construct a full cul-de-sac, they are proposing
to stub out to the property line to allow for future connectivity, which is
something the city expresses a desire to do whenever possible. What they
will do essentially, is construct a temporary cul-de-sac which will go away
when this street is full constructed. There is an assessment for that portion
that is not constructed to full standards that part that obviously can't go on
forward to that western boundary, and that assessment is listed here in
condition 5 as $3,975 for approximately 65'. Staff is recommending
approval of this PPL 04-1264 with 12 conditions. Planning Commission
determination of street improvements. There are improvements to Mt.
Comfort Road in front of the church. To meet parkland dedication
ordinance requirements the Parks and Recreation Board is recommending
$10,545 for 19 single family lots be contributed. The existing driveway to
the church will be too close to the new street. Therefore, it will be closed
and be reconstructed off of this street which will make for a much safer
connection here and better access management onto Mt. Comfort Road.
Also, the developer shall contribute a total of $17,000 into the tree escrow
account to meet tree preservation mitigation requirements.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 24
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and
give us your presentation.
Jorgensen: I'm Blake Jorgensen with Jorgensen & Associates here on behalf of Tim
Brizelle for this subdivision. Prior to this we have complied with all of the
conditions of approval and recommendations and concerns. I think mostly
we dealt with the turn around at the end but I think we have some clarity
on that. If you have any further questions I will answer to my ability.
Ostner: Would anyone from the public like to speak about this Preliminary Plat
proposal? Seeing none, I will close it to the public and bring it back to the
Commission.
Anthes: I have one question about the radius of the temporary cul-de-sac and the
one that is the permanent one. I see that they are still noted on the revised
plan at 40' and we had some discussion about whether fire code required a
larger diameter. Can we get verification from staff?
O'Neal: In the UDC it states that a cul-de-sac shall have a minimum of a 50' radius
at the right of way.
Anthes: So you are satisfied with the way that these are designed?
O'Neal: Yes.
Vaught: On the temporary it is 35'.
O'Neal:: Is that at the right of way or at the edge of pavement?
Vaught: On a temporary cul-de-sac I don't know if there would be right of way
outside of the temporary portion.
Warrick: There is an access easement that provides that additional right of way until
it is fully constructed.
Vaught: Does that need to be noted on the plat?
Warrick: We will ensure that it is. There is a temporary access easement noted, we
will ensure that it is more visible on the Final Plat to make it very clear.
The purpose of that is to allow for that to be used for access purposes until
such time as the road is extended.
Shackelford: We have had a lot of conversation about this. Can you give me a real brief
summation of why we are seeing temporary cul-de-sacs verses stub outs
and when that decision is made to go between the two?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 25
Warrick: Basically what we have here in a couple of the projects that we have been
looking at this evening, there are situations where you have more than two
adjacent lots that are served by streets that are dead ends currently but will
become extended in future developments by our ordinances and by the
International Fire Code. If you have a distance of more than 150' that did
not have a means, at that point you need to provide a turn around and that
is for emergency service vehicles. It is also for service vehicles such as
Solid Waste. Those trucks don't have really enough room to maneuver in
a dead end situation and it is not appropriate for them to have to back out
any distance greater than 150'.
Shackelford: I was just wondering what the cut off measurement was.
Warrick: That is the cutoff. Typically, if you see more than two lots in a standard
single family subdivision since they are required to have frontage of 70'
that is what we usually look at as a threshold.
Shackelford: What happens on Lot 16 as far as sidewalk requirements? Will that
sidewalk not be required until this road is stubbed out or what will
happen?
Pate: It will stop as shown on the plat as mentioned in condition five, there is an
assessment for that continuation. Basically, when the developer hooks on
with that assessment it will be constructed by the developer at that time.
Ostner: I have a question for staff. Mt. Comfort carries a lot of traffic and we hear
about it a lot with other developments in this area. Have we ever asked a
developer to address the traffic in this situation, have we ever asked a
developer to address the traffic problem on Mt. Comfort in any fashion?
Warrick: In this situation we are asking them to address it to some degree. They are
dedicating 45' of right of way from centerline to ensure that that road can
be extended in the future and they are installing sidewalks for pedestrian
traffic. I think that if we were looking at more than 20 lots it might be
something that would merit more improvements. They have very little
frontage along that street. However, they are going to be providing quite a
few vehicle trips per day that will impact Mt. Comfort Road but not
anymore than the vehicle trips per day that are provided by residents in a
subdivision of about 30 acres just to the west on the north side. They are
making greater improvements, they are dedicating the right of way as well
as making curb and gutter extended street improvements along their
frontage. It is something that we do have to look at. We have to look at it
on a case by case basis.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 26
Ostner: That development to the north is not necessarily widening, they are simply
improving to curb and gutter standards.
Pate: They are widening, 14' from centerline.
Ostner: They are not installing a turn lane or anything significant like that?
Warrick: No, but the city does have several Capital Improvement Projects. Two of
those will improve intersections on Mt. Comfort Road at Salem as well as
at Rupple. Those are funded projects that are being designed. They will
provide turn lanes at those intersections.
Ostner: That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I think those two turn lanes will
alleviate a lot of problems. Thank you.
MOTION:
Clark:
Trumbo:
Ostner:
Roll Call:
Thomas:
At Subdivision we discussed this subdivision a lot and our only concern
was emergency vehicles and if a temporary cul-de-sac is sufficient then I
will move that we approve PPL 04-1264 with conditions as stated
including the interior streets to be constructed to 28' as written in the
conditions.
Second.
Thank you. Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 04-1264 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 27
PPL 04-1271: Preliminary Plat (RIVER HILLS S/D, 569): Submitted by DAVE
JORGENSEN for property located at HWY 16E, S OF THE DAVID LYLE VILLAGE
SUBDIVISION. The property is zoned R -O, RESIDENTIAL OFFICE and contains
approximately 6.91 acres. The request is to approve the development of residential
subdivision with 16 lots proposed.
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is PPL 04-1271 for River Hills subdivision.
Pate:
I think most of the issues with this plat were worked out as well at
Subdivision Committee level. This property is just south of the David
Lyle subdivision located on Hwy. 16. There were a couple of revisions
from the last time that Subdivision Committee saw this. One was a
request that the streets be decreased to 24' wide streets because they are
not through streets in this situation. I believe that has occurred. In this
case there will be 4' sidewalks on both sides of the street as recommended
and shown on the plat from the developer. This property is subject to a
Bill of Assurance when this property was annexed and rezoned into the
City of Fayetteville. Recently that Bill of Assurance was amended.
Previously it did not allow any residential structures on this property but it
now allows single family structures only for other office type uses. The
applicant is requesting a single family residential subdivision with 20 lots
proposed. Two of the lots are proposed for detention, 16 lots are proposed
for single family and then two of the lots are proposed for a daycare in this
area. Those are the lots to the east. The total density for this project
projected is 3.32 dwelling units per acre, which is allowable in the R -O
zoning district under which this property is located. Staff is recommending
approval of this Preliminary Plat with 10 conditions. The first being
Planning Commission determination of street improvements. As I
mentioned, we are looking at 24' wide streets within a 40' right of way
with sidewalks on both sides as recommended and shown on the plat by
the developer. Item two, the applicant shall mitigate the removal of 15,899
sq.ft. of tree canopy by providing a contribution of $10,750 into the tree
fund. The subject property does front onto Hwy. 16. Therefore, 55' of
right of way along Huntsville Road will be dedicated per our Master Street
Plan allowing for the widening of Huntsville in the near future. I believe
all of the other conditions are standard.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and
tell us about your project.
Jorgensen: I'm Blake Jorgensen with Jorgensen & Associates. I am here on behalf of
Chuck Calloway with Gatorback LLC, River Hills subdivision. We have
complied with all of the recommendations and conditions of approval, as
well as there was a meeting this afternoon with Chuck Calloway and the
president of the P.O.A. of the David Lyle subdivision and they have come
to an agreement and they do have a written statement documented as to
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 28
the conditions that will take place. Beyond that, hopefully the plat will
clearly show that we have met the requirements. If there is any other
discussion I will be glad to answer any questions. Thanks.
Ostner: At this point I will open it up to the public. Please introduce yourself and
give us your comments.
Caldiero: I am Andy Caldiero and I am president of the David Lyle subdivision.
Since Mr. Calloway's property is directly adjoining David Lyle's
subdivision originally that property was actually considered Phase III of
David Lyle. We are in agreement in all respects with everything that Mr.
Calloway has proposed that Mr. Jorgensen has just spoken about. I did
meet with Mr. Calloway this afternoon and he has agreed again, verbally,
and has given me the documents that he plans to put into effect once this
has been approved. Again, I'm only here to put it on record that we need
those documents to be approved as far as David Lyle is concerned. In
order to get to our subdivision, this new subdivision, River Hills, abuts
onto Colonial Drive and Falcon Drive, which is the entrance to our
subdivision. It has a direct impact on us as well as himself. As long as he
continues to agree, and we have both worked with this because we are
very much in favor of the development of this subdivision as per what
they have shown us. We have absolutely no objections to it provided that
what we have presented to Mr. Calloway are met. We met with the
Subdivision Committee two weeks ago and have voiced our opinion there
as well. I'm just here to get it on record. Thank you.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak about this
Preliminary Plat from the public? Seeing none, I will close it to the public
and bring it back to the Commission for comments.
Anthes: In case anybody is wondering what those statements were referring to, I
have notes here that says that assurances were made at the request of the
David Lyle subdivision residents that only single family homes will be
constructed on these sites, that the covenants would mirror or exceed those
of the David Lyle subdivision, that there would be coordination of signage
between the two groups, that there would be a buffer between the property
lines and Hwy. 16 of some landscape sorts and that there would be an
opportunity of P.O.A.s to emerge. Since the applicant has apparently
offered those conditions to that neighborhood I would like to inquire how
you worked out the fourth question which was the question between the
property lines and Hwy. 16.
Caldiero: In previous conversations with Mr. Calloway he explained to us what he is
planning to do along Hwy. 16 to front River Hills to make it presentable to
all traffic that is driving by and we are in agreement with his plan.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 29
Anthes: Perhaps Mr. Jorgensen can tell us what that plan is.
Jorgensen: Part of my conversation was to coordinate their meeting. Beyond that, I
wasn't present to know what the extensive plan was so beyond that I can't
answer that.
Caldiero: It is just going to be columns spaced apart with rails between the columns.
The columns will be a brick type, it will give it a nice front and there will
be additional shrubbery to make it aesthetically pleasing.
Clark: Congratulations that the P.O.A. got together with Mr. Calloway. I think
that is great. That is something that we encouraged and it sounds like it
was productive. That is very heartening to hear that our suggestions are
kind of followed. Secondly, traffic on Hwy. 16, please somebody from
the state be listening. Traffic on Hwy. 16 is horrific as it is right now,
adding these new developments is going to make it even worse and if you
think this is bad we've got more annexations coming at the next meeting.
Traffic is going to be worse and I would encourage all of the folks who
live out there, don't talk to us, it is a state highway. The state has got to
get active because we are going to be compounding a dangerous situation.
I travel Hwy. 16 everyday and I know.
MOTION:
Shackelford: It looks like everything that we addressed with Subdivision Committee has
been met. I will remind this committee that a lot of what has been
discussed in regards to this Preliminary Plat and the existing neighborhood
will be addressed in the form of covenants which are typically reviewed at
the time of Final Plat and not Preliminary Plat. I appreciate you getting
that on record but we will be reviewing those at the time of Final Plat
approval. With that being said, I am going to make a motion that we
approve PPL 04-1271.
Anthes: I will second.
Ostner: There is a motion and a second. Before I call the vote, I have a question.
Is the land to the west of this development developed and if not, why was
there not an opportunity for a temporary stub out.
Warrick: It is developed. There is at least one, if not two, single family homes on
that adjacent property.
Ostner: Great, that answered my question. Is there any further discussion? Could
you call the roll please?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 30
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 04-1271 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 31
LSD 04-1266: Large Scale Development (KEATING-TOWNSHIP BLDG., 290):
Submitted by DAVE JORGENSEN for property located at TOWNSHIP STREET, W OF
COLLEGE AVENUE. The property is zoned C-2, THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL
and contains approximately 1.54 acres. The request is to approve the development of a
17,552 s.f. professional office building with 57 parking spaces proposed.
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is LSD 04-1266, Commissioner Clark is
recusing from this.
Pate:
The subject property for this Large Scale Development is located on
Township west of College Avenue. The property is zoned C-2,
Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately one and a half
acres. The applicant is requesting approval to construct a 17,552 sq.ft.
professional office building on the property with 57 parking spaces.
Access is proposed to be from one new curb cut onto Township along with
a connection to an existing cross access stub from the west. Surrounding
properties are all C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and developed.
Actually, this is one of the few remaining vacant lots on Township in this
location between Gregg and College. To the north is the New School
property. To the south is the strip commercial center and office. To the
east is an automobile dealership and to the west is a motorcycle store and a
paint store along with other commercial ventures. Right of way dedication
is required in the amount of 45' from centerline along Township as this is
a minor arterial. The City of Fayetteville is planning to widen Township
in the near future in this location. Therefore, instead of making
improvements and tearing them out in the near future, staff is
recommending an assessment for the required street improvements for this
development including street, sidewalk and storm drains due prior to
issuance of a building permit. This is one of the topics that could not
allow this item to be approved at the Subdivision Committee level. On the
last page of this staff report there is a memo from our staff engineers
regarding the assessment. At the time of Subdivision Committee the
amount was much higher than this and the applicant requested to meet
with staff engineers and to work out a better cost estimate. They presented
a cost estimate, which is also included in your staff report, and got
together and tried to agree on a number. Staff is recommending approval
at the Planning Commission level with 12 conditions of approval.
Planning Commission determination of street improvements. Basically,
the amount of street improvements would be taken care of with an
assessment which would then be put into street improvements in this area.
That amount is $35,000. Planning Commission determination and
approval of commercial design standards. Subdivision Committee did
find in favor of the commercial design standards for this project. It is a
well articulated structure. Six 2" caliper mitigation trees shall be planted
on site to meet tree preservation mitigation requirements and those are
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 32
Ostner:
Hafemann:
Ostner:
Ingman:
Ostner:
O'Neal:
Ostner:
MOTION:
Shackelford:
being coordinated with the Landscape Administrator, which is myself. I
believe all other conditions are self explanatory.
Is the applicant present? If you could introduce yourself and give us your
presentation.
I'm Garett Hafemann from Jorgensen & Associates here on behalf of Bill
Keating and Keating Enterprises. We had quite a bit of discussion about
this at Subdivision Committee and I really would've hoped that we
could've cleared them up and agreed with everything but we are happy
with the assessment now that we have been able to work with staff and
will be happy to answer any other questions you may have for us tonight.
At this point I will open it up to the public.
My name is Ron Ingman, I'm with O'Reilly Auto Parts which would be
the property just south of the development. We are very glad to see
somebody come in on the hillside there because we have looked at that for
a long time and it has been a hillside of brush. Our concerns are the traffic
flow. We recently had one of our customers killed in our driveway this
year. Cars pulling in and out on Township is hectic. If anything can be
done to at least stagger the driveway entrances or whatever we can do to
make it as safe as we possibly can. Is there a plan to widen Township?
Are we going to do three lane or four lane or just widening it? What is the
plan at this point? Mainly our concern is we need it as safe as we possibly
can because the retailers down Township do suffer because of the traffic
there. A lot of it is simply because they can't get in and out up and down
the street there.
Thank you. Is there any other member of the public who would like to
comment on this Large Scale Development? Seeing none, I will close it to
the public and bring it back to the Commission. My first question is for
staff. The project that the city is undertaking, what is the street section
there?
It is a three lane.
That should make a huge improvement if it has a dedicated turn lane down
the center.
The two things that we discussed at Subdivision Committee was obviously
the improvements and the assessment, we were all somewhat curious
about the $68,750 assessment but it looks like the math has been redone
and the new number is $35,000 which seems more in line with what we
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 33
have done in the past. The other specific finding was commercial design
standards. I find very much in favor of commercial design standards on
this project. It is a real unique project. If I remember correctly there is a
courtyard in the middle of this property and it is going to be a real nice
addition to this part of town. I am going to go ahead and make a motion
that we approve LSD 04-1266 subject to all conditions of approval with
the specific finding of fact that it does meet commercial design standards
and the determination of street improvements in the amount of $35,000.
Myers: Second.
Ostner: Condition of approval number four talks about the front landscape area
shall maintain a minimum of 15' of greenspace from the existing 50' from
centerline right of way line. Our conditions go on to state that actually
only a 45' right of way is required by the Master Street Plan.
Pate:
The Master Street Plan requires 45' from centerline, which is what they
showed on the plats and I believe they still show on the plats. Our GIS
Division found a dedication in excess of that from a long time ago so there
is actually more dedicated right of way here than necessary. However,
there is still a 15' wide greenspace, which they are showing on the plat, we
just want to ensure that that requirement is maintained.
Ostner: My point where I was going is they are having to setback their greenspace
5' more.
Warrick: They are setting back 15' from their existing property line which is what
the ordinance requires. Their existing property line indicates an excess of
5' of right of way that the city already obtained.
Ostner: Ok. Are there further comments? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 04-1266 was
approved by a vote of 7-1-0 with Commissioner Clark abstaining.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 34
R-PZD 04-1154: Planned Zoning District (CLIFFSIDE, 526): Submitted by
PROJECT DESIGN CONSULTANTS, INC for property located at THE EAST SIDE OF
HAPPY HOLLOW ROAD, SOUTH OF THE CLIFFS APARTMENTS. The property is
zoned RSF-4, SINGLE FAMILY - 4 UNITS/ACRE and contains approximately 26.30
acres. The request is to approve a Residential Planned Zoning District on the subject
property with approximately 48 two-family and 15 single-family lots proposed.
Ostner: Our next item is R-PZD 04-1154 for Cliffside.
Warrick: This property is located on the east side of Happy Hollow Road south of
the Cliffs Apartments P.U.D. and north of Happy Hollow school. The
property is currently zoned RSF-4 and contains approximately 26 acres.
The applicant is requesting a rezoning and Preliminary Plat approval for a
residential subdivision zoned a unique R-PZD zoning district. The
proposed use of the site is for a residential development consisting of 111
residential dwelling units, 15 of which are single family detached and 48
two family attached town homes. The site is currently vacant. The
floodway crosses the subject property from the north to the south. In
addition, a rather large 75' easement runs east and west along the north
portion of this property as you can see from Crossover with the power
lines that go through there. The total proposed dwelling units on this 26
acre site is 111. Therefore, the proposed density is 4.25 dwelling units per
acre, which is slightly above what is allowed with the current density of
four units per acre. Of course, that RSF-4 zoning district requires 70' lots
of 8,000 sq.ft. in area and this proposal is a drastic change from that. They
are using quite a unique mixing of attached town home style lots and
single family homes as well. As I mentioned, this site is located in east
Fayetteville south of the Cliffs apartments, north of Happy Hollow
elementary school. As part of the parks review and staff's review of this
project we are recommending, and the applicant is showing on the plat, a
trail connection through the proposed tree preservation area along the
creek both from the school up to the Cliffs apartments, which will provide
a needed pedestrian connection between those two. Access is proposed to
the east and south. To the north there is none. The initial submittal had
two stub outs to the north but it was discovered that those are tree
preservation easements for the Cliffs apartments. Therefore, these tree
preservation easements that run along the creek will actually be extending
that riparian corridor. There is one connection to be constructed extending
through the existing Ray Avenue. This took quite a bit of coordination
between the school and the developer. As I mentioned, the initial
submittal came in there was no stub out to the south because of the school
property there and no real intent to be developed. Staff recommended that
the applicant go back and talk to the school district and see if potentially
some of the traffic could be alleviated from going south and potentially
finding a better way for a better disbursement of traffic. They did meet
with the school district and I believe the school district voted on allowing
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 35
this connection and dedication of right of way so a street connection will
be provided to the south. We are happy that those two property owners
could work that out which provides the city with connectivity and both of
these property owners with a mutual benefit. As I mentioned, to the east
there is a stub out proposed for future connectivity and there is one
existing connection to Happy Hollow Road to the west, which is a
collector street. Happy Hollow Road is a newly constructed street west of
the subject property. The developer of Cliffside is dedicating 35' from
centerline as required. I have already mentioned coordination and there is
quite a bit of coordination on this project. Both with the staff and adjacent
property owners. The site is heavily canopied. It has 88% existing
canopy on this property. We had to work quite a bit to try to find the best
way to preserve as much canopy as possible and identifying those areas
most important and most significant based on our tree preservation
ordinance. As Landscape Administrator, I am recommending approval of
the tree preservation plan and I believe that we have worked out a great
solution. 25% is the minimum requirement and the developer is showing
38%, which is commendable. As I mentioned, the Parks and Recreation
Board did review this project and is recommending money in lieu in the
amount of $61,605 as well as the recommendation for that trail
connection. This project has been before the Subdivision Committee at
least twice. I am sure you have minutes from those meetings as well as
some of the public comment that has been received on this project which
has not been much. We have received a few items of public comment. A
draft of protective covenants are within your staff report as well as those
findings associated with all PZDs. As I mentioned, emphasis on tree
preservation has been placed with the development proposal and the
density which is proposed, while slightly higher than the current
underlying density does create a transition from the higher density multi-
family residential development to the north. That is where they are
placing a lot of their two family homes. The school to the south and there
are surrounding single family dwelling units. The tree preservation areas
as shown will also act as common areas for this neighborhood and for
those traveling along this trail. Staff is recommending that this item be
forwarded to the City Council with a recommendation for approval of R-
PZD 04-1154 with 23 conditions. I will go over a couple of those.
Planning Commission determination of residential lot access management.
Having seen recently in another PZD with smaller lots, staff feels that it is
appropriate to establish an access management policy on these streets.
You have 30' wide lots, if you have a standard 24' wide driveway you
would pretty much have driveways the entire street which is not sound
practice. We recommended, as we have in the past, if you have a shared
driveway it be allowed at 24' and if you have individual driveways those
be allowed at a maximum of 12' at the right of way. Planning
Commission determination of offsite street improvements. I believe we
have worked most of these out in this case. The developer will be
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 36
improving Happy Hollow Road from centerline as well as extending Ray
Avenue to the south and some additional improvements along Ray
Avenue. Additionally, parallel on street parking will be allowed on that
street to allow for program types of parking for the school when they have
after school programs and things of that nature to allow for excess parking
in that area. As mentioned, $61,605 for parks fees. Other conditions
address the pedestrian connections both to the north and to the south
which details are still being worked out. We feel comfortable at this level
to recommend that this go forward to the City Council. Final covenants of
course, always have to come through with a R-PZD, which is a
Preliminary Plat/Final Plat type of development. We will see those final
covenants at the time of Final Plat.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Pate. Is the applicant present? If you could introduce
yourself and give us your presentation.
Scott:
Good evening. My name is Art Scott, I am with Project Design
Consultants, we are the engineers on the project. This is Seth Cathca with
SBC Investments, the developer. We are asking for your approval on this
zoning change tonight to R-PZD and if you have any questions we will
answer them for you.
Ostner: Thank you. At this point I will open it up to the public. Would anyone
like to speak about this PZD? Please introduce yourself and give us your
comments.
Erf:
Good evening, my name is Jeff Erf. I live at 2711 Woodcliff Road. A
couple of concerns, first of all, do you realize that Cliffside is also the
name of a street in the Hyland Park subdivision? I just throw that out to
you because it could potentially cause some confusion for people. The
main reason I'm here, I have got some concerns about the connection of
Ray Street from Happy Hollow school up north into this development. I
am not sure how well this has been thought out. My son went to Happy
Hollow for six years and I'm quite familiar with the traffic flow that goes
back through there and in the mornings it is backed up and in the
afternoons it is backed up with people getting there early and waiting. I
am concerned that creating an extra point of access to that road is going to
create some confusion and chaos and I guess one of my questions is will
they be putting in sidewalks on the old part of Ray Street that runs
adjacent to the school? As I recall, there are no sidewalks there now.
Ostner: Those would be offsite sidewalks.
Erf:
If there aren't sidewalks there should be sidewalks so that once they reach
Ray Street they can stay on sidewalks. That is my main concern. I hope
somebody has looked at this in detail and really given it some thought.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 37
Also, there is a city park that is right next to the gymnasium. I was
wondering what was happening with that. It almost looks to me like Ray
Street extension goes right through there. That is an issue because if they
are removing a city park then don't they need to replace the city park, not
just money in lieu of. They are potentially going through an existing city
park and so that ought to be part of the discussion of money in lieu.
Thank you very much.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. Erf. Would anyone else from the public like to speak to
this issue of Cliffside PZD? Seeing none, I will close it to the public and
bring it back to the Commission.
Warrick: I can address some of the questions that Mr. Erf brought up. With regard
to the name of the subdivision, our 911 Coordinator has reviewed that and
will continue to review that. If there are any conflicts we will be made
aware of it and we will also make the developer aware of it so that they
can choose a different name. Typically, if there are two streets that are
named the same we can absolutely not allow for that for 911 purposes but
I don't believe that there is conflict in a subdivision name and a street in
another part of town having that name. The connection to Ray Avenue,
this project was originally submitted back in July and staff has been
working with the developer and the school district representatives since
that time to understand the implications of making that connection and
how it would affect the traffic flow for the city as well as for the students
and the parents and the employees at Happy Hollow school. We had
meetings with the school principal, with representatives from the
superintendents office, with staff, with the developer in the very beginning
to try to get our minds around how this would affect all of the concerned
parties. The school principal presented the proposal to her staff as well as
to her parent groups and it was also presented by the developer at the very
first open house of the school semester. The school board voted on this, I
believe that they heard it at least one of their school board meetings. They
did vote in favor of selling the necessary property to the developers to
make this street connection. Ultimately, they decided that it was in the
best interest of the school as well as the city to make the connection. We
appreciate that fact because we do feel that this is an appropriate
connection. The connection is not going through city parkland. That
property is owned by the school district and there used to be a more
developed trail system through the woods at the north end of the school. It
is not quite as developed as it used to be but the walking trail that this
developer will be building will be able to connect to the trail system that is
left on the north side of Happy Hollow school. I hope that addresses those
concerns. With regard to sidewalks on Ray Avenue, the amount of
property that is being dedicated for right of way is sufficient to provide
sidewalks. I would need the applicant to confirm that they are making the
improvements to include sidewalks. Their improvement will go south to
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 38
about 4th Street, which is the intersecting
entrance drive to Happy Hollow school.
Ostner: Thank you.
Clark: Along that same line, isn't a traffic light scheduled for Happy Hollow?
street just south of the main
Warrick: The intersection of Happy Hollow and Huntsville is definitely being
reconfigured and improved. That is a CIP Project that I want to say is
projected for very soon. I think it is under design at this point.
Clark: That is a horribly congested area during school days and I would think that
if you had a light coming out of this subdivision you would go to the light
instead of Ray Avenue during pick up and drop off times for school kids.
Dawn, didn't you indicate to us earlier that that is eminent. It is not years
away, it is soon.
Warrick: Our Engineering Design Services Division is designing that intersection
right now. I can't promise that that will be signalized but it will be an
improved intersection and the flow of traffic will be changed.
Ostner: How exactly will it be?
Warrick: I can invite the Engineering Design Services Division to come and talk to
you. I know that the main flow of traffic will be redirected onto Happy
Hollow south as opposed to Huntsville being the primary. That is my
understanding but it is being designed and it has to go through several
approval processes as well as the Street Committee. I don't want to
promise any specific type of configuration.
Shackelford: Mr. Scott, would you enlighten us on your plans for sidewalks along Ray
Avenue?
Scott:
We intend to extend sidewalks down Ray Avenue, we are hoping on one
side, the side where we have parallel parking, on the east side, from the
south edge of our property to where it intersects the existing pavement so
that all of the children from this subdivision can walk down that sidewalk
and access the school so they can walk back and forth to school.
Shackelford: Will that be a 4' or a 6' wide sidewalk?
Scott: I believe we intended 4'. It is a 50right of way.
Vaught: The proposed walking trail, is this going to be dedicated to the city for
parkland or is it going to be maintained by the P.O.A.?
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 39
Pate: It will be maintained by the P.O.A. within a tree preservation common
area easement.
Ostner: I have a few questions for staff on the same notes. On page 7.44, Article
VI in their covenants, they have offered all roadways within Cliffside are
private access easements for vehicular traffic only for the use of owners of
lots in Cliffside.
Warrick: We are going to ask the developer to address that.
Ostner: If you could please address that, that doesn't seem to be appropriate.
Cathca: That was a mistake. That was off of our template covenants that we have
used in our other subdivisions. I apologize.
Ostner: I'm also hoping on 7.47, Common Use Areas, any common areas may be
used by all residents of Cliffside and their guests. I'm hoping that is also
an error.
Cathca: Once again, an error. I apologize.
Ostner: Terrific. Those were concerns of mine. The third issue I have is this trail
that is connecting to the north that is intended for pedestrian flow, we have
had instances of those trails getting fenced. Unintentionally, but a
property owner here, a property owner there and two board fences 10'
apart with a trail in between doesn't make a good system. Can the
developer address that?
Warrick: I don't think that that would even be an option for this development.
There is only one location that this trail goes between two lots. In other
areas it runs adjacent to lots and greenspace or preservation area or
completely through preserved areas.
Ostner: Ok. There is a note on the plat that talks about frontage access. It says
lots 12 and 15 will have access for Happy Hollow. That didn't add up
because those lots are somewhere else. It also says Lots 13 and 14 will
face street one and they are nowhere near street one. I'm hoping this was a
typo again.
Scott:
Yes, they got renumbered. The intention is that the access on Happy
Hollow, that we have some of those homes appear to access and maybe
have a driveway in the back, but face Happy Hollow so that it gives more
of a neighborhood look and not a walled community through there so we
agreed to do that on some of those lots there.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 40
Ostner: You are looking at lots 20 through 26 and you are saying that a few of
those will face Happy Hollow?
Scott: Yes Sir. Particularly the ones along the entrance street there. Lots 23 and
24.
Ostner: That's good. That was going to be my next complaint that there were no
eyes on the street. That is ok.
Pate: Condition number three also addresses that discrepancy on the plat, that
those notes be revised to reflect those comments that you just made.
Ostner: I believe those are all of my comments.
Clark:
Pate:
On the plat we have got tree preservation and tree preservation/common
area. What percentage is strictly tree preservation and what percentage is
common area?
As of this moment I can't answer that. There are specific lots designated
on your plats and shown as preserved for tree preservation and common
space. When this project, should it be approved by the Planning
Commission and the City Council, comes back through for a Final Plat
those lots will be restricted from certain development rights and we will be
required to sign off on that Final Plat limiting certain activities on those
specific lots. A developer or a home owner, as with any residential
subdivision, always has the right to move into the lot and position their
home so that they can actually build a home on that site. The developer is
meeting that requirement by stating the required tree preservation amount
along with the exclusion of a building envelope within that lot. Basically,
the lots that are preserved, lots 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117 and 118 are
all tree preservation lots and will remain as such permanently.
Clark: Maybe I should ask the developer, what are you planning to do different in
the /common area lots?
Scott: The common area there runs along natural drainage courses and we
wanted to leave those as a natural corridor. As Jeremy said, those will be
an area where no development will take place. We did cut the trail out of
that. The trail is not counted as tree preservation area, that has been
removed. We took approximately 50% out of the lots for buildings.
Clark:
I've looked at the tree list that Jeremy provided us and you are saving
some very large, significant trees and a whole bunch of them, and you are
to be commended for that. I was just wondering because the common
areas is a different designation within a PZD, what uniqueness for the
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 41
Pate:
Clark:
Scott:
residents was going to be to set it apart from a tree preservation area and
make it a common area. Maybe I'm just playing a semantical game.
I believe on the ground as this is developed all of the tree preservation
areas that you see permanently will be common areas. It will be more of a
woodland type environment.
I've got one on 112 that is just a tree preservation area but then I've got
others that have /common area so I was wondering if you had planned on
something remarkably special. I'm glad you are saving it. It is a great
idea and there are some large trees there.
Lot 112 is a lot smaller of an area than 114 or 115. It wouldn't really
function well as a common area for activities or anything like those other
areas would for hiking and so forth.
Clark: Thank you.
MOTION:
Shackelford: As staff made comments earlier, we have seen this a couple of times at
Subdivision Committee. This is a project that has a lot of eyes on it, in
particular, with regard to the extension of Ray Avenue. I personally think
that that extension has been well thought through by both the school board
and city staff along with all sorts of people who were involved with this
project. I think it adds a lot to this project and I am in favor of that as well.
Overall, this is a great development in my mind. We have talked about in
the City of Fayetteville we need a supply of more affordable housing. I
think this serves that need and I like it's close proximity to an elementary
school. I will make a motion that we forward with a recommendation for
approval R-PZD 04-1154 to the City Council with the conditions of
approval as stated with specific determinations on number two, that due to
the smaller width, that these lots be allowed to have shared driveways,
specific finding on number four, a determination of off street
improvements to concur with staff's recommendation of a 28' street with
curb, gutter, storm sewer for the Ray Avenue extension. The
improvements to dissipate a portion of Ray Avenue north of 4th Street to
be coordinated with the Engineering Division as stated. Basically, subject
to all conditions of approval and staff's comments.
Trumbo: Second.
Ostner: Is there further comment? Could you call the roll Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of R-
PZD 04-1154 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 42
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 43
ADM 04-1304• Administrative Item (ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM/TERMINELLA):
Submitted by TOM TERMINELLA for property located at THE INTERSECTION OF
COLLEGE AVENUE AND SPRING STREET. The request is to amend the parking
requirements for the Terminella Building.
Ostner: The last item on our agenda is ADM 04-1121 for the Terminella Building.
Warrick: This request is concerning property located at 123 N. College Avenue.
Those of you who have been out there lately have noticed that it is a big
pit. The structure that had previously been there was recently removed for
a new development of an office building which is proposed to be
constructed eminently. The applicant proposes to build a 20,226 sq.ft.
structure two story building in this location. They did obtain variances to
set the structure closer to the public rights of way along Spring Street and
College Avenue in order to bring the building more to a pedestrian scale to
provide an appropriate streetscape and to more closely match the city's
desire for our downtown as demonstrated in our Downtown Master Plan.
The applicant, in order to create the development that they desire, is
asking for Planning Commission to grant a parking waiver to allow two on
street parking spaces that they will be constructing on Spring Street to be
counted towards their requirement of on site parking spaces. This
development requires a minimum of 15 on site parking spaces and that is
because they are credited for the removal of the previous structure. Our
ordinances do allow for an incentive for downtown redevelopment
through a reduction in parking requirements and by doing that what the
ordinance allows is that the footprint of the previous structure that has
been removed based on the use that had been established there is credited
towards the parking requirement for the new development and therefore,
this project at the minimum, is required to provide 15 on site spaces. Like
I said, they are proposing to install 13 on site spaces with access off of
Spring Street through an alley at the rear of the structure. They are asking
the Planning Commission to approve this waiver to allow for the two on
street parking spaces on Spring to count towards that 15 total. That is the
request.
Ostner: This is an administrative item so we don't really need to hear from the
applicant but I believe the owner is here if you have any comments that
you would like to make. Commissioners? I will call for the public. If
anyone from the public would like to speak to this Administrative item?
Seeing none, I will close it to the public.
Vaught: Are these going to be metered spaces or are they just going to be on street
spaces?
Warrick: They will very likely not be metered initially. They will be managed by
the city because they will be part of the public infrastructure and within
Planning Commission
November 8, 2004
Page 44
the public right of way. These two spaces would be fairly removed from
any other metered spaces initially. Eventually that could be the case but I
think that they will be free parking for at least the time being.
Vaught: I'm excited about this and I'm glad to see this area of town getting this
kind of attention. I want to thank the owner for working with the city to
get the variances to try to come in line with the Downtown Master Plan,
which hopefully we will have implemented soon.
Anthes: I'm just referencing the graphic on page 8.5, it appears to look like all of
the curb cuts to College Avenue are being closed as part of this project, is
that true?
Warrick: That is correct. They will be providing curb and gutter and sidewalk along
both street frontages, Spring and College.
MOTION:
Anthes: That is great! With that answer being positive, I would like to move for
approval of ADM 04-1104.
Trumbo: Second.
Ostner: There is a motion and a second. Is there further discussion? Could you
call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 04-1104 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Announcements
Meeting adjourned: 7:37 p.m.