HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-09-13 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held on Monday, September 13,
2004 at 5:30 p.m. in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ACTION TAKEN
ADM 04-1229: (Ryan's/Fire Mountain) Approved
Page 4
LSP 04-1171: (Quality Life Associates, Inc., 289) Approved
Page 9
CUP 04-1177: (Quality Life Associates, 289) Approved
Page 9
RZN 04-1167: Rezoning (McBryde, 478) Forwarded to City Council
Page 23
RZN 04-1166: Rezoning (Sloan Properties, 477) Forwarded to City Council
Page 19
CUP 04-1199: (Skate Station, 639/640) Approved
Page 26
LSD 04-1198: (SKATE STATION, 639/640) Approved
Page 26
CUP 04-1163: (Creekside Plaza Mini Storage, 566) Approved
Page 29
MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT
Alan Ostner Nancy Allen
Loren Shackelford
Jill Anthes
Christine Myres
Sean Trumbo
Christian Vaught
James Graves
Candy Clark
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Jeremy Pate
Dawn Warrick
Matt Casey
Kit Williams
Suzanne Morgan
Renee Thomas
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 2
Ostner: Welcome to the Planning Commission meeting of September 13, 2004.
will you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call there were eight Commissioners present
with Commissioner Allen being absent.
Ostner: The first item will be the approval of the minutes from the August 27`h
meeting. Do I have a motion for approval?
Shackelford: So moved.
Graves: Second.
Thomas: For the record, the minutes were the minutes of the August 23rd meeting.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the minutes of the
August 23, 2004 meeting was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Ostner: The next item we have four items that have been tabled by the applicant. I
will read those items. The first is C-PZD 04-1175, a Planned Zoning
District for Rivendell. The second item is RZN 04-1164 for Clevenger
Drive duplexes. The third item is RZN 04-1173 Rapido Rabbit Carwash.
The fourth item is ADM 04-1200 from the Annexation Task Force. Those
items have been tabled by the applicants but if anyone from the audience
is here we could hear public comment. However, we are going to
formally hear these again in public session. With no one interested in
speaking, do I have a motion?
Clark: I move that we table all items, one through four, indefinitely.
Ostner: I have a motion.
Trumbo: Second.
Ostner: Is there discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to table items one through
four on the agenda was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of eight to zero.
Ostner: On the consent agenda there are two items. The first is ADM 04-1201 for
Spaine at 225 N. East Avenue and ADM 04-1202 for Combs Street
Church of Christ. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 3
Shackelford: I will make a motion that we approve the consent agenda.
Graves: Second.
Ostner: There is a motion and a second. Would anyone in the audience like to
remove these from the consent agenda? Seeing none, I will close that and
act on the motion. Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the consent agenda
was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of eight to zero.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 4
ADM 04-1229: Administrative Item (RYAN'S/FIRE MOUNTAIN) was submitted by
RYAN'S CORPORATION for property located at 3825 N SHILOH DRIVE. The
property is zoned C-2, THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL. The request is to replace
the existing 3 wall signs and low profile pylon sign with 2 redesigned wall signs and a
monument sign.
Ostner: Under new business, item number seven is ADM 04-1229 for Ryan's Fire
Mountain. I believe Suzanne has this item.
Morgan: The property is located west of Shiloh Drive. It is Lot 2 of the Spring
Park subdivision Phase IL The applicant requests three signs for Ryan's
Fire Mountain located on this property. This property is also located
within the Design Overlay District. There are currently two wall signs at
the entrance of this building and a pylon sign along Shiloh Drive. Sign
regulations within the Design Overlay District require that only one wall
sign be allowed per business and a monument sign. There are additional
regulations on illumination and that the content be limited to the name of
the business. A second wall sign may be allowed if it is determined that
this structure has more than one front facing a public right of way. This
lot, however, has only one front onto Shiloh Drive and therefore, by right,
may only have one wall sign. The applicant requests to place two wall
signs on the structure stating Fire Mountain Hot Off The Grill. One sign
will be located on the eastern wall of the structure facing Shiloh Drive and
the second is proposed to be located on the entrance of the building to the
north. The applicant, therefore, requests approval for the second wall sign
for this business. This is being heard by the Planning Commission
because variances for signage within the Design Overlay District must be
considered by this board. Staff finds that the location of the property is
located where Shiloh Drive dead ends and is screened considerably by
vegetation to the south. Therefore, constituting a special condition and
circumstance unique to this property. Additionally, permitting an
additional wall sign for the subject property will not be contrary to public
interest. Staff also finds that granting the requested variance will be in
harmony with the general purpose and intent of the Design Overlay
District and that the signage will serve to identify the business and not be
injurious to the scenic quality of the Design Overlay District. Staff,
therefore, recommends approval of the requested additional wall sign
within the Design Overlay District with four conditions. 1) All required
permits shall be obtained for the proposed wall and monument signs. 2)
The existing wall signs and pylon sign shalt be removed prior to sign
permit approval for the new signs. 3) No additional signage may be
permitted for this property more than that allowed by ordinance and
specified herein without Planning Commission approval. 4) No sign may
be constructed within a utility easement.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page S
Ostner: Thank you Ms. Morgan. Is the applicant present? If you would please
introduce yourself and give us your presentation.
McMannus: My name is Stan McMannus, I'm the sign coordinator for the Ryan's
Restaurant Group. I am here on behalf of Ryan's to plead our case. It is
two fold, one, we are spending a lot of money to upgrade our restaurant
from formerly called Ryan's to our new image called Fire Mountain. It is
going to be a much nicer restaurant, more variety, more pleasing to the
public and more competitive with our competition. The signage that is
there now has been ample through the years. Under the new sign
ordinances it has restricted us to one sign. If you are familiar with the
restaurant, it has very, very bad visibility from the highway in any
direction. The pylon that is there now is an 8'x16' with a 4'x7' marquee
which we are giving up. We are giving up the 8'x16' and the 4'x7'
marquee in favor of a monument sign, which is 6'x10'. The wall signs,
we will have one at the entrance with our new name, "Fire Mountain Hot
Off the Grill" and we are requesting one on the stack end facing Shiloh
Drive. Not only is it for identification purposes but also identity for the
building. I know that our competition through there, it may be non-
conforming but they still have the signs. They have pylon signs. Dixie
Cafe has three sets of letters on the front, side and back of their building.
Red Lobster has two sets of letters on the front of their building and the
pylon sign. We are requesting that one set was approved, another set on
the stack end of the building facing Shiloh. I certainly would appreciate
the monument sign with the utility easement there is absolutely a waste of
time. You will not see it until you drive into the restaurant and you park
beside it. There is one area behind the utility easement that you could put
the sign. There is a berm there and if I could raise that sign 6' it would put
it above the berm. 6' is the bottom of the sign and then it would be visible
from Shiloh and also from College Avenue. Right now there is an 8x16
and 4x17 out there. Originally the road was supposed to go all the way
through and have more traffic but right now it is a dead end and I'll be
honest with you, when I went there today I couldn't hardly find the place
myself and I knew what I was looking for. It is just a bad location for us
at this time so we need all the exposure and identification we can get,
especially the name change. We have invested a lot of money there and
would like to stay but if we don't have any business we won't be able to. I
think you all can see that it is definitely a need and any consideration we
certainly would appreciate it.
Ostner: At this point I will open it up to the public. If there is anyone who would
like to speak to this issue, now is your chance. Seeing none, I will close it
off to the public and bring it back to the Commission for comments.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 6
MOTION:
Clark: I think the gentleman spoke very adequately about the location that the
restaurant currently has and the type of signs I think they are proposing are
absolutely within good taste and nothing that would violate the ordinance.
I would move that we approve ADM 04-1229.
Trumbo: I will second.
Warrick: For clarification, the applicant in his oral presentation, requested that the
monument sign be a pole sign 6' above the berm. The application itself
and the written information that you have in front of you is to approve a
monument sign. The definition of a monument sign is flush with the
ground. Just for clarification, I think that for staff and the applicant we
need to know which one of those two, if it is as written in the staff report
as recommended or as requested in your presentation this evening.
Clark: My motion is as written in the staff report.
Trumbo: As well as my second.
Ostner: That is how I was interpreting it. I believe an extra 6' in height would be
another request, different and on top of what is currently in front of us.
Vaught: I don't see the location of the monument sign. Would it take the place of
the current pole sign or where would it be on the site?
McMannus: It would take the place. I have a site plan.
Vaught: We have one, I just see where it says i.d. sign.
McMannus: This is the existing sign, this is where I wanted it but it was in that utility
easement so I talked to Suzanne and this area here, which is where that
berm is. The only other place you can go is in this island here and you
aren't going to see it at all coming this way and here is so low the only
time you can see it is when you turn in.
Vaught: Staff, how do we feel about monument signs in utility easements?
Warrick: Monument signs are not permitted to be located within utility easements.
Clark: That is one of the conditions of approval, that they can't be in the utility
easement.
Vaught: Is there a way to work, I'm sure you guys have talked to him about
alternate locations for a monument sign. Were there any that were found?
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 7
If we approve a monument sign, if he can find an adequate location they
can put it anywhere on the site, is that correct?
Warrick: There is not a restriction in your recommendations that it be located at a
certain spot so yes, we would be more than happy to work with the
applicant to find a location that complies with the ordinance and would
satisfy their needs. If that is possible we would certainly be glad to do it.
Vaught: It looks like there is lots of room over there. You might have to reduce
parking or even landscaping or something but it looks like it could be
done. The name of the restaurant, the official name is "Fire Mountain Hot
off the Grill"?
McMannus: Yes.
Ostner: That was a question I had because in part of your correspondence, I'm not
sure if it was you, but it is simply referred to as Fire Mountain.
McMannus: You know, certainly we have instances where "Hot Off The Grill" has not
been used in a case where the sign or the wall and the pylon can both be
seen at the same time, we can have it on one and not the other. We would
like to have it on one location because that does differentiate us a little bit
from competitors. Hot Off The Grill steaks and chicken and so forth. It is
part of the marketing of Ryan's to do that. One question, in the utility
easement, if Ryan's was to take full responsibility of it being in there, is
there a possibility of putting it on that corner? That way there could be a
monument sign. The utility superintendent for Ryan's even mentioned a
chase where all your electrical and everything is at could be moved if you
ever had to move the sign. I don't know if that is something you all would
be amenable to.
Ostner: No Sir, we need to keep things out of the easements. That is a standard
rule. We don't let fences or buildings or anything in that.
McMannus: If we could just raise it 6' then we have pretty much no problem. We are
not increasing the size of the sign, we are just asking to get it up because it
is so low. That is the only place, really that you could put it. I would've
made that part of the variance if I would have realized that that location
was that low from the highway grade. It just won't work unless we do
raise it up some.
Ostner: I would also wonder if the landscaping couldn't be altered.
McMannus: I looked at that and you would have to take it all out and then pull that
grade down and it is still going to be iffy. It would certainly help but it is
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 8
not going to be as well to just upgrade the plantings there and then get the
sign up a little bit higher.
Ostner: The height limit I believe is part of our ordinance that keeps it at 6' tall if I
am understanding that.
Warrick: That is part of the definition of a monument sign for Fayetteville.
Anthes: I certainly can find in favor of the Fire Mountain sign on the two facades
of the building facing Shiloh Drive and over the entrance. I do have a
question though about the side facing Shiloh Drive with the "Hot Off The
Grill" nomenclature. The reason why is I am thinking about other actions
that this commission has taken. I'm specifically thinking of Focus Salon
Hair and Nails where we were not able to find for the subtext on two sides
of the building, but only one. I wondered whether we had a similar
condition here.
Warrick: We considered that as part of our findings in our consideration of this
application. We found that it was a little bit different because the request
for Focus Salon Hair and Nails was actually larger originally than the
actual name of the business. They were really focusing on Hair and Nails
verses the name of the business as the primary signage for that. I felt like
the Planning Commission's compromise was fairly consistent with what
else had been approved in the Overlay District that had small amounts of
subtext to either continue the name of the business or to present some
content other than the actual name. We felt that this was consistent with
the Planning Commission's finding in that case. Although, it was a little
bit different but also consistent with the other businesses in the overlay
District with the manner in which they have been signed.
Ostner: I believe we currently have a motion and a second. Is there further
discussion? I am going to go ahead and call the roll.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 04-1229 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
McMannus: We can have the second set of letters but we can't raise the sign?
Ostner: If it goes taller than 6' it would be another procedure to come forward and
ask for a variance.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 9
LSP 04-1171: Lot Split (QUALITY LIFE ASSOCIATES, INC., 289): Submitted by
QUALITY LIFE ASSOCIATES, INC. for property located at 2623 N GREGG
AVENUE. The property is zoned RMF -24, MULTI FAMILY - 24 UNITS/ACRE and
contains approximately 6.43 acres. The request is to split the subject property into two
tracts of 5.43 and 1.00 acres respectively.
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is LSP 04-1171 for Quality Life Associates.
I believe Ms. Morgan has this presentation.
Morgan: The applicant requests approval of a Lot Split for the subject tract. It is a
6.43 acre tract which is located at 2623 N. Gregg Street south of Drake
Street and west of Gregg. Right of way also for property owned by
Arkansas Missouri railroad. The property is zoned RMF -24 and currently
has a home located to the rear of the property. It is also located within
floodway and floodplain, a portion of it is. The applicant requests to
create a new one acre lot in order to build a single family home for
supportive services residential house for women with disabilities. A
Conditional Use has been submitted for this consideration and I believe
that is the next item on the agenda. In 1999 the Subdivision Committee
approved the second and third Lot Split on this tract. Additional right of
way was dedicated in this action, was required to be dedicated in order to
provide 60' of lot width for each tract. However, these Lot Splits were not
recorded. Therefore, are void. The existing lot does not have frontage on
Gregg Street but has a portion of frontage on Jocelyn Lane in the un -
constructed right of way. Staff does recommend dedication of right of
way to reflect the previous approved plat to meet a minimum lot width
requirements. Additionally, the applicant requests an individual septic
holding tank on this property until such time as sewer may be connected.
Surrounding land use and zoning for this property include single family
residence to the north on RMF -24 zoned property. To the south is located
C-2 and I-1 zonings to include the old farmers daughter currently being
renovated. Also, to the east are Lakeside Village Apartments and
Sunbridge Center and to the west University Farms. Staff is
recommending approval of this LSP 04-1171 at this level with eight
conditions to include item one, Planning Commission determination of
adequate access to each lot. Item two, adequate right of way shall be
dedicated to provide required frontage for each lot reflecting the
previously approved Lot Splits. Item three, development of the proposed
tract shall be limited to one single family residence unless and until
improved infrastructure is installed. I would like to mention item five.
Planning Commission approval for a waiver of sanitary sewer system
connection in lieu of public sewer main connection a conditional letter of
approval from the Health Department for a septic system on the proposed
lot must be obtained prior to Planning Commission approval. I would like
to turn your attention to page 8.5 of the staff report which addresses that
condition.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 10
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present? If you would please introduce
yourself and give us a presentation if you would like.
Alexander. I am Lynn Alexander. My husband and I formed a not for profit in the
year 2000 for the purpose of serving brain injured individuals and other
people with disabilities. We purchased the property in April, 2000 for the
purpose of building on that property in the future. The City of
Fayetteville, you are aware of this, because we were graciously given a
block grant for architectural and engineering drawings at that time. The
purpose of the Lot Split now is we do want to propose to build a single
house that will in no way be identified as a house other than a dwelling.
The purpose of it is to serve women with disabilities because research both
by the University of Arkansas, the students, as well as our staff, indicated
there is a need in Fayetteville for transitional housing to train women with
disabilities to provide them with the services that they need to get them
back out into the community to live in the community at large. There will
be a staff person 24 hours. There will be a wake staff, not a sleeping staff,
that will be there to assist them in anyway. We are very, very
environmentally conscious. I would like to show you a picture that this is
a view of the property before we cleared it where we were proposing.
This is a picture of it cleared, all the undergrowth and the trash, etc. that
was removed. This is a picture of the proposed house placed on the
property. The angle of the house is not exactly the way it will go because
I did not have the proper view of the trees to do so. We commit to the
City of Fayetteville that we will do everything that we can to be good
neighbors to you and the other individuals in the neighborhood. That we
will do everything that we can to help you by giving you permission for
the walking trail, permission to put the new sewer across our property and
any other way that we can be of help. Are there any other questions?
Ostner: We will come back to you if we need to ask you questions. If you could
pass us those pictures that would be nice. At this point I will open it up to
the public if there is anyone who would like to speak about this issue.
Please introduce yourself and give us your comments.
Beard: I am Marsha Beard and about a year and a half ago I purchased the
adjoining property formerly known as the Farmers Daughter for the
purpose of remodeling it for a single family residential home. I am now in
the process of doing that and I have the current appraisal based on what it
will be like when it is finished. It will be close to a million dollar
property. Part of my concern, it is more the Conditional Use than the Lot
Split, but it is also the Lot Split. Right now when you enter off of Gregg
onto the Jocelyn Lane it is a real remote looking, country atmosphere that
you get. That was part of what attracted me to this property. Here in the
middle of town you were out in the country. You go down this little tree
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page I1
covered lane, there are two exits at this point to go to the other two
residences and then the lane dead ends at my house. The Lot Split and
building the current property that they want to build, if they would build it
off far enough that as soon as you pulled in that you could now see this
building instead of this nice country lane I wouldn't have an objection to
that. The main objection that I have is to the Conditional Use. They
currently on the adjoining property have a facility that is for homeless
veterans. It has been there not quite a year yet and there have already been
six police incidents where they have had to come to the property for
serving warrants, drunken behavior, fights, one of the tenants or residents
or whatever, has actually come over to my property so drunk he could
barely stand up. I am going to be forced to do some things to my property
I wasn't planning on doing like putting in a gate that is lockable and a
fence that goes across the property because the Conditional Use permit
right now is for women with disabilities. I don't understand if they
changed it later. All they are wanting is a Conditional Use for four people
to be able to live there. I don't think it really restricts what it is used for
but if they couldn't find enough women with disabilities or changed their
minds later and made it more homeless veterans I would be real concerned
about my safety and the property value of my property that I am spending
hundreds of thousands of dollars remodeling. I have some pictures here
that will show you. The first one shows the entrance when you first pull in
off Gregg. The other one is the location of the proposed building. The
entrance into my place. The front yard, kind of a before and after picture,
although after isn't finished yet, but greatly improved on a couple of sides
of the house and then an inside picture showing that I am totally gutting
the place and redoing it. I have been divorced for about five years and I
will be living there with my 18 year old son. I just have real concerns on
not only what the Conditional Use would allow them to do, not necessarily
right now but also in the future and then also they are proposing some big
complex later built into this same area but we probably don't need to get
into that now, which is more transient type people living there. I will pass
these around. Here are the police reports. Here is the plan that shows to
me as soon as you turn in here that's all you are going to be able to see.
Those are my concerns. Mainly it is they are wanting to start another
program where I feel like their existing program has not been totally
successful and is not helping the area that I just moved into to invest
hundreds of thousands of dollars. Thank you.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there any further public comment?
Cromwell: Good evening. My name is Crosby Cromwell. I'm the residential
coordinator, I work with the veterans. I didn't want to disagree but I did
want to refute. We have had one incident in the year that we've been
there.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 12
Ostner: Excuse me, are you part of the applicant?
Cromwell: Yes, sort of.
Ostner: If you would just wait. We are going to hear from the public and we can
ask you all questions and you can provide further comment in the future.
At this point we are just talking to the public. Does anyone else want to
speak about this issue? I am going to close it to the public and bring it
back to the Commission for questions and comments. If the applicant has
something else they would like to say they can go ahead.
Cromwell: 90% of our veterans right now are currently working. Only one is not
working, that is because he is disabled and over 55. We have had a very
low turn over rate. We have had a very successful program. We have
only had one incident with the police coming out in the eleven months that
our program has been running. The veteran was asked to leave
immediately after that. The veteran was also someone that Mrs. Beard had
hired to work on her property. That was why he was over there. He may
have been drunk. That was the issue we asked him to leave on. I do
believe that the program has been successful. I work with the men every
day five days a week. I am currently in the home twice a week for group
meetings. They are heavily supervised and doing well.
Sasson: I'm also with the applicants. My name is John Sasson, I'm the COO of
Quality Life Associates. I just wanted to talk a little about some of the
issues with the specific property verses the general usage of the property.
The group home we are proposing is a group home for disabled women.
The Alexander family started this foundation with a long term goal of
helping women with disabilities and other folks with disabilities,
specifically brain injured people in the City of Fayetteville and
Northwestern Arkansas. The long term goal for this home is to provide
their daughter who has been injured 22 years with a brain injury and was
confined to a wheelchair, long term residence and giving her a quality of
life that she wouldn't get in an institution. Basically, the commitment to
this house, this specific piece of property that we are asking you to
consider tonight is going to be focused on how to help women with
disabilities stay independent in the community. As you all are aware, the
ADA gives people with disabilities a right to live anywhere in the
community and have accessible lifestyles into the community. That is all
that we are proposing. As far as having a person there 24 hours a day, that
will give us the ability to provide the supervision and the structure that
will prevent a lot of traffic coming and going out of the house. Our
commitment is to provide a safe and communal dwelling for a person with
a disability and other people that we can serve and a long term
commitment to the Alexander family that their daughter can have a place
to live and grow old and that they can get on with their lives and not have
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 13
to worry about whether their daughter is going to go to a nursing home or
an institution.
Ostner: Thank you. Commissioners?
Vaught: I have one question for the applicant. How did you guys decide where to
split this lot? My concern, especially with the Lot Split, is that the
majority of it is in the floodplain right by the creek and bisected by utility
easements so it doesn't give you a lot of room to work. How was that
determined? Why wasn't it placed further back outside of the floodplain.
Alexander: It is evident to me, we are just trying to get utilization of the full six acres.
You could do only one acre or one and a half acre on the east side of Skull
Creek. We are simply trying to utilize the property. If you can see what a
mess it was before we got permission from the City of Fayetteville to do
selective clearing there with anything less than 6" in diameter. What we
are trying to do is to improve the property, build a house, and have
something there that the City of Fayetteville would consider an asset more
than a liability. As you can see from that very first picture there, it would
be hard to put that in the asset column. In fact, in the dead of winter when
I marked those trees the undergrowth was so dense that many times I had
to crawl to the next tree. It is a place where unknown people continually
dumped and did things to me were unseemly. We are just trying to make
our property better while offering an opportunity for people to improve
their lives. We are going to cycle people through this when they are able
to enter the community and find a job. That is our goal there. Does that
make sense? Why we selected the property on the east side of the creek to
utilize in affect, it was of little value and un -earning asset and we are
trying to turn it into an eaming asset with some use without devaluing any
of the rest of the property of course. Is there anything further?
Vaught: That's it for now.
Ostner: Staff, on the minutes from October, 1999, here is my first question. Is this
completely moot or is it relevant?
Warrick: That information was provided to you for reference because it was
important for staff to show you the Planning Commission, that in 1999 the
same property was brought forward with requests for Lot Splits to create
additional residential lots on this 6.43 acre tract of land. At that point in
time, the Planning Commission and staff felt that it was appropriate for
additional single family lots to be created in this location under certain
conditions. That is why we provided that background information for you.
We also encouraged the applicant to use that as a reference so that they
would understand what bad been considered in the past and what
conditions were placed on that with the understanding that they were
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 14
bringing forward a brand new request and that their request was to divide
the property to create one new single family lot. It is slightly different in
aspect but it is the same property and therefore, we felt that it was
appropriate to bring you that background.
Ostner: It is more reference, it doesn't actually apply.
Warrick: This is a brand new request. Because the City Council passed an
ordinance in 2003 that expired projects after a certain period of time if no
action was taken this 1999 request had expired. This is a brand new action
and they are requesting to create a one acre lot for the purpose of building
a single family home.
Ostner: That leads me to my second question. Since we have talked about the
Conditional Use, we are not really on it yet, we are on a Lot Split but we
are talking about a single family home yet we are really talking about four
unrelated occupants living there.
Warrick: In this zoning district anywhere in the city four unrelated occupants may
reside in a single family home.
Ostner: Thank you. That answers my question. We currently have a Lot Split.
Graves: Could you just briefly remind us of the factors that we should be
considering on a Lot Split?
Warrick: With regard to a Lot Split what we are looking at is a subdivision of land.
Typical considerations include access, provision of utilities and the ability
for that lot to be a legal lot in the zoning district in which it is located.
This particular tract of land and the request that you are hearing, does
require Planning Commission approval of certain variances or waivers to
the subdivision regulations with regard to connection to sewer as well as
access. There is not an improved public street adjacent to this property.
Gregg Street does not immediately adjoin the property. It is divided by
railroad tracks. Therefore, there is access into the property by way of a
small public right of way and in the past staff felt, and we do still believe,
that access for a single family home is adequate. It would need to be
improved but it can be easily made adequate by providing a 20' clear
paved surface to the new structure. There are three homes that currently
utilize the access off of Gregg Street into this site. This site provides an
access easement to the home on the north, the home on the subject
property, and the home to the south.
Ostner: As a follow up, this second lot isn't really, we aren't requiring right of
way to be built to it.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 15
Warrick: Staffs recommendation is to require the dedication of sufficient right of
way and part of the Conditional Use request, should that be approved, that
paved 20' clear driveway be provided to the new single family home. The
finding that the Planning Commission would need to make is that
adequate access was available to the lot.
Ostner: The access would be the 20' road instead of a public right of way.
Warrick: There is public right of way. It would not be a fully built improved street.
We are not talking about curb, gutter, storm drain, sidewalks, we are
talking about access, adequate access for one single family home. We did
note and made a condition of approval that the development of the
proposed tract, which is the one acre that they propose to divide or to split
off, be limited to one single family resident unless and until improved
infrastructure is installed. We don't believe that this is an appropriate
location for anything more than one single family home unless that public
street is built. The applicant understands our position on that. They
realize that there is some marginal access to the site. This property is
zoned for multi -family development. This property is zoned for more than
150 residential units. There are certainly portions of this property that
make that almost impossible. The fact that there is a lot of floodplain on it
would really hinder the possibility of building out to that density. This is a
property that is surrounded by commercial and agriculturally and multi-
family zoned property and it is itself zoned for 24 units per acre. It is
immediately adjacent to a railroad, an active rail tine and a major street.
Vaught: What is the minimum lot size in the floodplain? Is it one acre?
Warrick: There are two conditions in which you can create a lot within the
floodplain. If the lot is 100% within the floodplain or close to that, you
are required to have a minimum of 6,000 sq.ft. above the floodplain of
buildable area or the lot itself is required to be one acre. That is why you
see this tract being proposed as a one acre lot.
Clark: Staff, I'm assuming, I'm understanding that sewer lines are not in that area
yet but when they do cross into that area these two lots would be required
to connect, will the other lots in that area be required to connect as well?
Casey: The city ordinance requires that any structure within 300' of sanitary
sewer be required to connect. The sewer line will be constructed in this
area as part of our wastewater treatment plant project. This is the corridor
along Skull Creek and there will be numerous access points along this
proposed trunk line for future connections.
Clark: What is the time table on that in general?
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 16
Casey: 2006 is when it is supposed to be available. That is the proposed time
frame anyway.
Shackelford: What about impact fees? Will they be collected at that time?
Warrick: Yes.
Clark: I will get the ball rolling. A lot of the comments we have heard so far
really pertain to the Conditional Use which is next. I will go ahead and
make the motion that we approve LSP 04-1171 with the conditions as
stated.
Myres: I will second.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there further discussion? Would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSP 04-1171 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Ostner: The next item is CUP 04-1177 for Quality Life Associates. I believe we
have already had the presentation. Would you like to present more?
Warrick: Ms. Alexander has pretty much made the presentation for you just
describing the Conditional Use. Suzanne can go over some of the
conditions that are proposed if you would like that.
Morgan: Staff does recommend approval of this Conditional Use to allow an
assisted living center on the subject property. As previously discussed, it
will entail a 24 hour staff for the single family home for four residents.
Staff finds that granting the Conditional Use will not adversely affect the
public in that the proposed structure that would be permitted is in harmony
with the residential development on the adjacent properties. Staff does
recommend five conditions of approval. Item one being that the
application comply with all of the conditions of approval with the
accompanying Lot Split. Item two, a 20' minimum paved access shall be
provided from Gregg Avenue to the subject property to meet minimum
International Fire Code requirements. Item three, all applicable building
permits shall be obtained to begin construction of the proposed structure
and the Certificate of Zoning is required to be issued. Item five, prior to
the issuance of Certificate of Zoning the applicant shall coordinate with
the Solid Waste Division should there be any specific requirements for
Solid Waste pickup.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 17
Ostner: Thank you. Does the applicant have anything further that they would like
to add to this Conditional Use request? Seeing none, I will open it up to
the public. We have already heard a little bit, but if you would like to
speak again, please do.
Beard: They made the statement that there was only one incident and as you can
see from the police reports, there have been six. They obviously don't
even know what is going on at the facility. If you will look through there
one was for a warrant. People are living in their homeless veteran
facilities that have warrants that the police are going there to serve, plus
disturbances. There has been more than one disturbance during this period
of time. You can see with what I gave you from 1999 to 2003 there was
nothing and then from 2003 until now there was either six or seven that
have occurred, not one. Thank you.
Ostner: Is there further public comment? At this point I will close it to the public
and bring it back to the Commission.
Clark: I guess I have a question to staff. We are not talking about the existing
structure with the veterans are we? We are talking about this new
Conditional Use for an unoccupied lot that is going to house disabled
females, correct?
Warrick: That is correct.
Clark: Thank you. I just needed a little clarification.
Shackelford: You made the comment earlier that four unrelated people can live in a
structure in this zoning district, which is RMF -24 and I understand that.
We are looking for basically a Conditional Use for Use Unit 4 for assisted
living facility. Help me understand what constitutes the legal definition of
assisted living facility. Is that simply because they have somebody on
location 24 hours? If you could just clarify that point for me.
Warrick: That is exactly what staff's interpretation was. Because they were
providing 24 hour on site assistance for the residents of the structure we
felt that it didn't really meet the same understanding and application as
your standard single family home occupied by four independent
individuals. This is the same type of Conditional Use that has been
applied for the assisted care facility for Butterfield Trail. That has a lot of
different variations to assisted living to it however, it is in the same zoning
district and they do provide the same types of services so we felt that it
was appropriate for it to be treated in the same type of manner.
Shackelford: I guess I would like to follow up with the applicant really quick if we
could. What type of care, would it be medical care on this location? What
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 18
type of care is provided since that is basically what we are looking at here
is allowing that.
Sasson: It will be no basic medical care. It will be basically activity of daily living
which is assisting in any type of transfer, supervision as far as cooking
meals, any kind of laundry that has to be facilitated we will help with the
laundry. As far as any type of medical emergency like you will see in a
nursing home, no, we will not be providing that.
Shackelford: Thank you very much.
MOTION:
Graves: I will move for approval of CUP 04-1171 with the stated conditions of
approval.
Clark: Second.
Ostner: Is there further discussion?
Vaught: One question for staff real quick. Does the property adjoining with the
veterans facility on it, have a Conditional Use?
Warrick: It does not. They do not have on site care, 24 hour assistance in that
facility. There are four individuals who independently live there. They
are placed there through a program. However, that is not something that
the city has the ability to discriminate against.
Ostner: Is there any further discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-1171 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of eight to zero.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 19
RZN 04-1166: Rezoning (SLOAN PROPERTIES, 477): Submitted by RAYMOND
SMITH for property located at EAST OF BROYLES AVENUE AND SOUTH OF
PERSIMMON STREET. The property is zoned R -A, RESIDENTIAL -
AGRICULTURAL and contains approximately 22.94 acres. The request is to rezone the
subject property from R -A, Residential Agricultural, to RSF-2, Residential Single-family,
2 units per acre.
Ostner: The next item on our agenda is RZN 04-1166 for Sloan Properties.
Morgan: The subject property contains approximately 22.94 acres and is located
south of Persimmon Street west of Rupple Road. It is the northern portion
of a 160 acre tract recently annexed into the City and zoned R -A. A large
single family home and detention pond planned for Cross Keys
Subdivision are located on this property. Persimmon Place, Cross Keys
PZD as well as Rupple Road PZD are located north of the subject
property. The applicant is requesting that this property be rezoned from
R -A, Residential Agricultural to RSF-2, Residential Single Family, Two
Dwelling Units per acre. Staff recommends approval of a rezoning to
RSF-4 as previously recommended by staff for this property based on the
findings included herein. Staff finds that the proposed zoning of two units
per acre for single family residential is not consistent with the existing
zoning and density to the north of the subject property zoned RSF-4 and
approved for development of 2.65 units per acre. Cross Keys is an R-PZD
approved for 2.81 units per acre and Rupple Road PZD approved for 6.2
units per acre. Rezoning the property to RSF-4 will increase the density
allowing for more intense residential use of the property and allowing for
development compatible with the surrounding residential subdivisions in
this area. The higher density than what is requested, RSF-2, allows for
development of a subdivision with density appropriate in the area as well
as providing compatibility. The Police Department has determined that
the rezoning will place an increased load on police services however, the
rezoning will not create an appreciable increase in traffic danger and
congestion in this area and will create some increase in traffic however
and will not substantially alter the population density. As for fire response
times, there is approximately a four minute response time to the property
at this time assuming no access to Rupple Road with this development.
Therefore, staff recommends rezoning this subject property to RSF-4
based on the previous findings for RZN 04-11.00, Greenwood/Sloan and
those found herein. Also, the rezoning request, RZN 04-1161 for
McBryde, staff is making the same recommendation with similar findings.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present?
Sloan: I'm Charlie Sloan, the owner and developer of this project. We were
before you a few weeks ago with this project for annexation. We tabled
the rezoning because we needed to bring back a PZD for the rest of the
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 20
property. I don't have a problem doing the PZD but right now we are
pursuing building Persimmon Road and there are some utility easement
constraints that we would like to go ahead and put in now. To do that I
need to be able to know that I can build on this property and what I can
build so the bank will lend me the money. We are trying to cost share
with the city to run a new 12" water line on the south side of Persimmon,
which will tear out the driveway, while we are at it, we are already tearing
out the driveway to build the street, we would like to go ahead do the
water lines, get everything set up and then also go ahead and plan right
now to finish Persimmon on the west side of our property. We have to
finish it so that once we finish this project in the next few months we are
done. That is what we are trying to do so that I don't come back and tear
something out that I've already built before. What we propose to do there
along the side of the existing home, if you have seen the existing home,
we would like to do an estate type lots, that's the reason we asked for
RSF-2 zoning thinking that I get comments from councilmen that they
want less zoning out there, not more zoning. We are trying to comply.
We probably will be closer to an RSF-1. We are trying to get Persimmon
built and over with and lots sold on Cross Keys Phase I by the end of
November. We are just wanting, while we are there, tearing everything up
trying to coordinate this thing and the best way for me to do it was to go to
the bank and say I've already go a zoning that will allow me to build what
I want to do and now I need to borrow so much more money to go ahead
and put in some lines and stuff that we wouldn't be normally putting in
until later.
Ostner: Thank you Sir. At this point I will open it up to the public. Would anyone
like to speak about this issue, RZN 04-1166? Seeing none, I will close it
to the public and bring it back to the Commission. I have a question for
staff. He is requesting RSF-2, staff believes that RSF-4 is more
appropriate. If it was zoned RSF-4 do we have the power to force him to
do a higher density?
Warrick: No we don't.
Ostner: I was looking at the lot widths and minimums and he could simply go
beyond the minimum I suppose.
Warrick: We will of course be looking later at a subdivision proposal and at that
point in time we will be looking at street configuration and access issues
as well as lot configuration and lot sizes but it would be permissible for his
lots to exceed the minimums in the RSF-4 district.
Anthes: I just want to talk through this. We initially looked at a 160 acre tract that
came through for the rezoning. Basically, we are looking at 22.94 acres
now for the rezoning and then the remaining approximately 137 acres Mr.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 21
Sloan is stating will come through as a PZD. Is this the piece of property
that you were talking about adjoining the golf course?
Sloan: Yes, it is limited on the depth because they will back up to where the golf
course is going to go. Some of the lots are not going to be 300' in depth so
we may have to make them wider or do something to compensate to make
everything work. We just took the property line that we showed you on
the other plat originally and said everything north of here to Persimmon is
what we are trying to annex in because it really doesn't attach to the
southern part of the subdivision because of the creek and the golf course
going through there and floodplain.
Anthes: There is an existing structure on this property?
Sloan: Yes, there is an existing home out there. I am just trying to hold the value
of that home. This will probably have a 4,000 sq.ft. minimum on the lots
or maybe even a little larger, just to try to keep the same value and same
type of homes down the street there. There will probably be about 16 or
17 homes is what we will plot out of this 20 acres. Like I said, we are just
trying to hold the value there and make things have the same setback,
maybe a 100' setback and circular drives, just to match things up where it
looks consistent.
Anthes: So you are using that existing home as the precedent?
Sloan: Yes, I'm trying to just compliment that is what we are trying to do.
Across the street with Cross Keys Phase I we have a 2,200 sq.ft. minimum
and then when we drop south of the golf course we would like to do
probably a few more estate lots next to the golf course, which will be
probably 3,000 sq.ft. and then drop down to a 2,500 sq.ft. minimum on the
balance of the PZD.
Anthes: I'm not allowed to ask this but on the rest of the PZD are we going to see a
lot of variety?
Sloan: Not your variety. Write me a check for that house and I will put
apartments right next to it. Part of it is for aesthetics to try to make it look
like what is there. We have a high density across the street with Rupple
Row coming in and then we have a medium density with my 2.8 and then
Carl Walker has probably closer to 3 or 3.2 so with different priced homes
in the same area. I am looking at the whole area and each one's
minimums is what I try to look at to decide and this is one area that there
is not any of that provided out there so we wanted to go ahead and try to
provide at least a few lots that way.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 22
Clark: If we approve this as staff has recommended as an RSF-4 you can still do
whatever you want to on it.
Sloan: I don't have a problem with it.
Clark: You don't care?
Sloan: That is fine. We just requested a two and part of that became because that
is what we originally told our councilmen of our ward, we gave them a
preliminary drawing a long time ago and this was part of it so we are
trying to stick to our word of what we were doing and which we asked the
last time for the RSF-4 on the whole project. The reason we did that was
because I didn't realize that the golf course had to be pulled out and zoned
separately. In reality, we almost don't need the PZD because we could
come back and say we would like to zone this block as the golf course and
then everything else back to RSF-4. We will go ahead and do a PZD
though.
MOTION:
Clark: With difference to your aldermen who will see this next, I will recommend
that we approve RZN 04-1166 to RSF-4 as written.
Shackelford: I will second that with the comment that in the six years that I've been
doing this I've never seen us ask a developer to build something more
dense. That was a watershed moment of my career.
Ostner: I wasn't sure if I was reading it properly myself. The only comment I
would like to make, I do want to support this. In the findings on page
10.4, I understand that Persimmon is going to be a collector, it talks about
single family homes with individual access onto a collector may create a
dangerous traffic situation. I believe it can be developed safely. I believe
it can be developed dangerously. It is all about turning around and not
backing out. It is very simple. If you are going to do a 100' frontage there
is plenty of room for hammerheads or circular drive and I believe that is
night and day safety and backing out onto a collector can be dangerous
and I understand that this is not really part of the rezoning but I just
wanted to bring that up. I believe if cars can head out onto a collector I
believe it is perfectly safe. Our rules error on the side of caution. We
don't want to create things dangerously. That is really just a comment for
the Preliminary Plat. We have a motion and a second, is there further
discussion?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 04-1166 by the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 23
RZN 04-1167: Rezoning (MCBRYDE, 478): Submitted by RAYMOND SMITH for
property located at THE END OF RUPPLE ROAD, S OF PERSIMMON. The property
is zoned R -A, RESIDENTIAL -AGRICULTURAL and contains approximately 5.02
acres. The request is to rezone the subject property from R -A, Residential Agricultural,
to RSF-2, Residential Single-family, 2 units per acre.
Ostner: The next item is RZN 04-1167 for McBryde. If we could have the staff
report please.
Morgan: This property is currently vacant, it is directly adjoining and east of the
property previously discussed. It contains approximately 5.01 acres
located south of Persimmon Street. The applicant is requesting that the
property be rezoned from R -A to RSF-2. Staff is recommending that the
property be rezoned to RSF-4 based on previous findings. Staff finds that
RSF-4 will be comparable and compliment the surrounding development
in the area and additionally, other findings are similar to those previously
made.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant present?
Smith: My name is Ray Smith, I'm representing the applicant. I think Mr. Sloan
probably explained the situation here on the McBryde property, which is
just east of Mr. Sloan's property. We don't have any problem either if you
feel that RSF-4 is proper then we can live with that on that particular piece
of property.
McBryde: I'm Bryan McBryde. Basically, Charlie is my developer and it is just an
extension of the lots that he will be building on Persimmon also. It will all
be done basically as one big development.
Ostner: Thank you. Would anyone from the public like to address this rezoning?
Seeing none, I will close it to the public and bring it back to the
Commission.
Anthes: I just wanted to make a comment that I think that it is positive the way that
they are talking about developing these properties along Persimmon will
provide house frontage on Persimmon, which I think is positive for the
development of that street.
Warrick: I just wanted to state that we don't disagree with the applicant's desire
with the type of development that they want to build. Our
recommendation is consistent with what we have been recommending on
this property since last year. We also felt that taking some cues from
previous Planning Commission conversations, this is an area that is
developing as a community node and there are amenities in this area that
generally you would find higher densities located around like the Boys
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 24
and Girls Club, the possibility of a school, where you have walk -ability
and the golf course proposal. We also do encourage a mixture of housing
types to enhance neighborhoods so this is not necessarily anything that we
oppose and like you have noted very appropriately, the applicant does
have the ability to develop a project that he is contemplating and desiring
to develop under the zoning that we are proposing. We were just trying to
give a solid hint that this is an area that could merit higher density than
what is being proposed but we don't disagree really from what they are
proposing to do. Like you stated, there is a good way to do this if this is
the style of development that will be proposed with regard to traffic safety
and with regard to eyes on the street and having houses not backing up to
our major arterials, or in this case, a collector street. I just wanted to make
it clear that we are not in total disagreement with the applicant but that we
just wanted to be consistent with our recommendations.
Anthes: This is 5.02 acres of 80 acres right, so we would be looking at the
additional 75?
Warrick: We will be looking at the additional 55, a portion of this property will be
the school property.
Anthes: Thank you.
Shackelford: Based on conversations we have heard with this and the previous item, I
am going to make a motion that we recommend approval of RZN 04-1167
to an RSF-4 zoning.
Clark: Second.
Ostner: You touched on something that I did want to know. This is not the
property that the school district has been looking at?
Warrick: No this is not.
Clark: Before we vote on this, I have asked repeatedly on all of these annexations
and rezonings about impact to infrastructure and I actually noticed the
police changed their report on this and I really do give them great kudos
for that. It has to be in the record because I have been pushing for it
forever and they make a good point.
Ostner: We have a new chief.
Clark: Whoever did it, I appreciate it. They make a very valid point that although
this little bitty thing may not impact, eventually as we keep doing this it is
going to have an impact and we are going to have to look for more
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 25
policemen, more fire people, etc. I appreciate it. Maybe the annexation
taskforce has had an impact.
Ostner: Is there further comment? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 04-1167 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 26
CUP 04-1199: Conditional Use (SKATE STATION, 639/640): Submitted by STEVE
CLARK for property located at 2283 S SCHOOL AVENUE. The property is zoned C-2,
THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 2.46 acres. The
request is for warehouse use in a C-2 district (Use Unit 21).
LSD 04-1198: Large Scale Development (SKATE STATION, 639/640) was submitted
by STEVE CLARK for property located at 2283 S SCHOOL AVENUE. The property is
zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 2.46 acres with a
16,625 sq.ft. indoor skateboard park and a 5,000 sq.ft. warehouse proposed.
Ostner: Our next item is CUP 04-1199 for Skate Station. If we could have the staff
report please.
Pate: This item and the following item are somewhat connected in that they are
a Conditional Use and Large Scale Development for the same parcel of
property. This property at 2283 S. School Avenue. The property is zoned
C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 2.46 acres.
The Conditional Use request is for a warehouse use in the C-2 district. A
Large Scale Development request then goes to the actual development
plans for the skate park and the warehousing facility. As a little
background, in April, 2003 the Planning Commission unanimously
approved both a Conditional Use to allow warehousing and a Large Scale
Development as it is currently submitted for the subject property. This
proposal did expire on April 14, 2004 prior to issuance of building
permits. In your packets you will note that the applicant has stated several
reasons for the issuance of building permits not occurring before that one
year date. As I mentioned, the property currently is under development
with grading permits and floodplain development permits issued
subsequent to their approved and now expired Large Scale Development
plans. The site does contain several groupings of tree canopy, particularly
the high priority canopy in the riparian corridor along the creek that flows
west in front of the property. The applicant's request tonight is to reinstate
the approvals granted by the Planning Commission for both the
Conditional Use and the Large Scale Development for the skateboard
park. The proposal is to develop a 16,625 sq.ft. indoor skateboard park
and a 5,000 sq.ft. warehouse used for the storage of wooden ramps and
jump boxes used by the skateboard park operators to create varying setups
for the park users. The warehouse use is Use Unit 21 in the C-2 zoning
district thereby requiring a Conditional Use request. Staff is
recommending approval of both of these requests for the Conditional Use.
There are six conditions. Obviously, the applicant shall comply with all
conditions of approval for the Large Scale Development should it be
approved. Warehousing in this facility shall be limited to materials and
equipment related to the commercial venture on this site. Warehouse
space within this building shall not be leased out by other users. The
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 27
loading dock serving the warehouse shall be located as shown on the most
current site plan for the associated Large Scale Development near the
parking lot and away from the rear of the structure which adjoins single
family residences to the north. Item number four deals with parking lot
lighting and item number six, a minimum 6' privacy fence installed
adjacent to residential land use to the north and west. Items number one
through four were the conditions of approval from the previously
approved Conditional Use permit. Item number five, we picked out of the
minutes as it was stated by the Planning Commission as a desired
condition of approval but never made clear in the motion. For the Large
Scale Development staff is also recommending approval, obviously,
subject to the approval of the Conditional Use Permit for Planning
Commission determination of commercial design standards. Right of way
dedication and sidewalk fees are to be paid in the amount of $1,854 in lieu
of construction, as well as the four additional conditions of approval.
Ostner: Thank you. Is the applicant here? If you could introduce yourself and
give us your presentation.
Clark: My name is Steve Clark. I was the engineer on the project and represent
the owner. This is one that the owner is doing the construction himself.
He has the dirt work mostly completed and was prepared to get his
building permit and his building back in April. With the rise in steel
prices the building supplier backed out on him and that kind of put him in
a lurch and subsequent to that he has been trying to get new pricing on a
building and subsequent to that, found out that the Large Scale had
expired. That is where we are today. There were several drainage issues
that have all pretty much been resolved. He has a detention pond in place,
has built the 6' privacy fence with one exception, there is a piece that he
has left out because he uses that gap to access the benchmark on site.
Prior to finalizing his buildings he will get that piece put in.
Ostner: Thank you. At this point I will open it up to the public. Would anyone
like to speak to this issue? Seeing none, I will close it to the public and
bring it back to the Commission.
Anthes: We saw this at the last Subdivision Committee meeting, reviewed it, and
didn't see any reason to find contrary to the previous Planning
Commission approval. Therefore, I will move for approval of CUP 04-
1199.
Graves: Second.
Ostner: First I have a question for staff. I need to make sure that there are only
five conditions of approval on this Conditional Use.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 28
Pate: That is correct.
Ostner: Ok, is there further discussion? Would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-1199 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries by a vote of eight to zero.
Ostner: Thank you. The associated item is LSD 04-1198 for the Skate Station. I
believe Mr. Pate has already presented the staff report. Would the
applicant like to add any comments?
Clark: No Sir, I'm prepared to answer any questions that you may have.
Ostner: I am going to open it up to the public. Would anyone like to speak about
this Large Scale Development? Seeing none, I will close it to the public
and bring it back to the Commission.
Clark, C.: This south elevation I didn't look at the south elevation when I saw the
site, is it fairly well screened and not visible to the public?
Clark, S.: That is correct. There is Campbell Electric to the south of us and you
should not be able to see it from the highway. There is also probably 200'
or 300' of trees that we have left that would buffer us from the highway
also. I don't think you will see any of it realistically.
Ostner: I was going to ask for any further Subdivision comments.
Anthes: Basically, we talked about the different permitting and the fact that the
grading permit was reissued and that staff was comfortable with how those
things had been dealt with. That was our major concern.
MOTION:
Shackelford: As I did a year ago on this, I am going to make a motion that we approve
LSD 04-1198.
Clark: Second.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Would you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 04-1198 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 29
CUP 04-1163: Conditional Use (CREEKSIDE PLAZA MINI STORAGE, 566):
Submitted by GRANVILLE HARPER for property located at NE CORNER OF HWY
16E AND HWY 265 (HUNTSVILLE & CROSSOVER). The property is zoned C-2,
THOROUGHFARE COMMERCIAL and contains approximately 2.72 acres. The
request is to approve the development of a mini -storage facility on the subject property.
Ostner: Our last item is CUP 04-1163 for Creekside Plaza Mini Storage. I believe
Mr. Pate has this presentation.
Pate: This item is also involving property that has been before the Planning
Commission, although it was back in 1996 so I don't believe anyone was
here at that time. This is a different submittal as well. This property is
located at the northeast corner of Hwy. 16 and Hwy. 265, Huntsville and
Crossover. The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and
contains approximately 2.72 acres. The applicant is requesting to approve
the use of a mini -storage facility in a C-2 zoning district. The property
actually wraps around the existing Phillips 66 gas station there fronting
onto both Crossover and Huntsville Road. As I mentioned, back in June,
1996 the Planning Commission did approve a Large Scale Development
proposal. Obviously, that has expired as of now rendering all approvals
null and void. A new Large Scale Development will need to be processed
and approved in order to begin construction on that property. The western
portion of this site is encompassed by floodplain and floodway associated
with the drainage channel constructed along the eastern side of the
existing service station. The site is devoid of major tree canopy with the
exception of perimeter trees which do provide a screen to surrounding
properties and currently there is no development on this site. To the north
of the property is a vacant parcel which is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare
Commercial. To the south is the Phillips 66 and the shopping center
which is across Huntsville. To the east are single family homes, although,
the one that is directly east is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and to
the west is Crossover Road and some single family structures. The
applicant is proposing to process eventually, a new Large Scale
Development for the subject property with the combination of office and
commercial uses fronting onto Huntsville and Crossover, with the mini
storage, which is the subject of tonight's request located behind those
structures. The development would be designed to meet all applicable
development and zoning ordinances and is required to receive approval
from the Planning Commission. I won't go into the proposal, the
applicant may be able to do that a little better. Essentially, the applicant is
proposing to screen this mini storage use, which mini storage within any
zoning district in the city must be screened from public rights of way and
any residential zoning districts or land uses. Therefore, both Crossover
and Huntsville qualifies as the public right of way and the property
directly to the east, which is a residential land use as currently existing
single family home, must be screened. The applicant is proposing two
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 30
office buildings in front of these mini storage units to facilitate that screen
from the public rights of way, as well as a portion of the site, which is not
actually fronting on the public right of way, but staff feels is very visible
through the gas station property, they are proposing a vegetative screen
and wrought iron fence in that location. Staff is recommending approval
of this Conditional Use as you may note with our findings, finding in favor
of this use and granting the Conditional Use will not adversely affect the
public interest in this location with these required provisions for screening
from the public right of way and adjacent residential land uses, along with
the knowledge that this development shall meet or exceed all applicable
zoning and development ordinances through the Large Scale Development
process. Additionally, the applicant is required to screen the proposed use
from the adjacent residential use to the east, which is not shown on your
conceptual site plans as submitted. That is a condition of approval that
staff is recommending be added to this request. Finally, finding that this
use is generally compatible with the adjacent commercial uses and has
provided screening to mitigate the impact on nearby residences as well as
view from the public right of way. Staff is recommending approval of this
Conditional Use with seven conditions of approval. We do have signed
conditions. I will go over a couple of those for you. Approval of this
Conditional Use Permit obviously, does not constitute the approval of the
development. Upon submittal for the Large Scale Development approval
the proposal shall be reviewed for general compliance with the conceptual
site plan and architectural elevations as submitted with this request. Keep
in mind, these are conceptual in nature and we expect some changes to
occur. I did mention specifically though, that the mini storage unit shall
be screened from view with the two office buildings as indicated on the
site plan and utilize common design elements, such as brick, a roof pitch,
color, etc., as approved by the Planning Commission tonight. Item
number five, I would like to change this condition of approval slightly, it
reads freestanding signage in this location shall be limited to a monument
sign type to provide compatibility and transition between adjoining
developments, a pylon sign shall not be permitted in this location. All
signage proposed shall be permitted in accordance with the sign ordinance
regulations at the time of submittal. I would like to add to that that a joint
identification sign would also be permissible in this area allowing for
several of the businesses to potentially utilize that same sign. There is a
joint identification sign across Huntsville Road. Also, the Conditional Use
permit shall be valid for a period of one year unless a Large Scale
Development plan for the project is approved by the Planning
Commission. At such time, the Conditional Use shall be automatically
renewed to track essentially, with the Large Scale Development.
Ostner: Is the applicant present? If you would introduce yourself and give us your
presentation.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 31
McGowan: My name is Pat McGowan, my partner Granville Harper and I are the
developers of the property. I think Jeremy has pretty well sized up what
we are trying to do, which is a combination of commercial with some mini
storage in an appropriate zoning but the Conditional Use Permit is
required to go in any zoning. It sounds like we are going to be in the
screening business before it is all said and done. We realized we had all of
this to contend with when we started this project but we feel like a
combination of commercial and mini storage in this location will be
appropriate. We have investigated the market for mini storages in town
and it appears to be sufficient to justify our proposal. I don't think I've
got anything else to add other than what Jeremy has told you unless there
are some questions of me.
Ostner: Thank you Mr. McGowan. At this point I will open it up to the public.
Would anyone like to speak to this Conditional Use for Creekside Plaza?
Seeing none, I will close it to the public and bring it back to the
Commission for comments.
Vaught: Staff, the screening, which side from the residential is it? Is it north and
east or just east?
Pate: Just to the east.
Vaught: To the north there is no required screening or is that something that we
will look at at Large Scale?
Warrick: We will look at that at Large Scale. There is required screening on all
sides of a mini storage development regardless of the adjacent land use or
zoning. However, we are going to look more specifically at those areas
that adjoin residential. The property to the north, there is a narrow strip of
property that is zoned commercially, I believe it is currently vacant but
like you said, that is something that we will look more specifically at the
time of Large Scale Development.
Vaught: Jeremy had mentioned it so I wanted to make sure that was clear. That's
it.
MOTION:
Shackelford: As I look at this request, I think this is a logical place in town for this type
of development. I like the concept of mixing the different uses in this
location. I am going to go ahead and make a motion that we approve CUP
04-1163 with the addition to condition of approval number five at the end
a sentence shall be added that states "A joint identification sign will be
permissible in this location limited in size and location by current City of
Fayetteville sign ordinance."
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 32
Vaught: Second.
Ostner: Is there any further discussion?
Clark: I've heard it said many times on this Commission that everything is ok
until it is in your backyard. The sad news is this is in my backyard so I
have a couple more questions before we approve it. First of all, I would
like to ask Mr. McGowan what is the time table between the time the mini
storage would go up and the commercial screening would go up?
Between the time you finish the mini storage and the two buildings go up?
In other words Mr. McGowan, I'm very concerned that the mini storage is
going to sit on my corner for a very long time without the adequate
screening that is required in here.
McGowan: You are asking when the mini storage would be built in relation to the two
office buildings? The whole thing is going to be built at the same time.
Clark: Ok.
McGowan: We are going to develop the whole piece of property. It is just 2.7 acres.
Clark: The way I had read the information was that the mini storages were going
up first and it is contingent upon the eventual completion of the
commercial buildings.
Warrick: The way that staff would intend this project to be installed and we believe
that we tried to make it clear in the Conditional Use, is that those
commercial structures provide the required screening for the mini storage,
therefore, we would not issue a Certificate of Occupancy for the mini
storage without all the necessary screening being in place thereby having
those commercial structures in place on site prior to occupancy for the
mini storage.
Clark: We will talk about the screening more in Large Scale Development? I am
very concerned that I have heard the east side mentioned but there is still a
gap between when you turn the corner on Hwy. 265 between the gas
station. There is a line of sight there that if it is not carefully screened you
are going to be looking straight into mini storage and although, it might be
appropriate for some corners I'm not really enthused about it there. In
terms of the lights, I have another question as well. When we are talking
about the condition of approval that full cut off sodium lighting fixtures,
which way are those going to be directed?
Pate: Downward and away from adjacent properties.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 33
Clark: Directly out towards Huntsville and Crossover?
Warrick: Downward towards the development and away from adjacent properties.
We require that that is the direction of all lighting that is provided
internally within the development. We would not desire them to be placed
so that they were lighting small portions of the street or that they would
have a glare on people driving down those two highways.
Pate: These are the types of lights that are permitted within the Design Overlay
District for parking lot lighting.
Clark: Will the lights be on all the time in the mini storage?
McGowan: I have to have the lights on for security somewhat at night.
Clark: I will just point out to my fellow commissioners that there is a lot of
construction going on in that whole end of town, especially to the north.
We have a R-PZD, we have all types of development on top of
Stonebridge Road, which is where I live so I'm very concerned about that
type of a mini storage facility. The commercial buildings I'm absolutely
enthused about. I think we need more commercial development on our
end of town but the Conditional Use for the mini -storage I have some real
reservations about simply by the nature of the beast and the residential
developments going on in that whole area so I'm going to have to
probably vote against this Conditional Use.
Anthes: I don't have my UDC with me, would you clarify again what zoning
districts mini storages are allowed by right?
Warrick: The initial question, the mini storage use is permitted by right in two
zoning districts, the two industrial districts. It is permitted in a C-2 zoning
district by Conditional Use, which is how we got to the point that we are at
here. With regard to buffers, strips and screening, on page 14.5, with
regard to mini storage. That statement is "At the expense of the owner of
the property all storage units and storage yards for mini storage created
under Use Unit 21 shall be required to be screened by view obscuring
vegetation when the storage yards or the storage units have common
property lines with any residential zone or use and when they have
frontage on any public street. Those are the three conditions in which the
screening will be required. Vegetation used for screening purposes shall
be planted at a density sufficient to become view obscuring within two
years from the date of planting and it shall be the responsibility of the
property owner to maintain the screening throughout the life of the use of
the property as a mini storage. A view obscuring height would be a
minimum of 6'. This has to be a very densely planted area with fast
growing vegetation in order to achieve that two year time limit.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 34
Anthes: This has always been something that confused me in commercial zoning
in our C-2 zoning. That is because we very specifically state that
vegetative screening does not qualify as a way to get around commercial
design standards for any other building that we build in this zoning and yet
for mini storage we somehow allow vegetative screening to count and I've
never quite understood that. I have seen inside facilities in other places
around the country that you could probably make the argument that meet
the commercial design standards. We are talking about Crossover Road
here and I'm trying to think of what the City Council's intent is for the
build out of that street, we have been hearing that that might be our sort of
eastern bypass route.
Warrick: We have two indications on the Master Street Plan with regard to, one
indication with regard to an eastern bypasss and we do have Crossover
Road, which is designated a principal arterial and the southern end of
course, has been widened in recent years. It is not the designation of the
designated eastern bypass. That is the further swap of property that
actually is just a large band of property that circles the eastern side of town
that is the exact designation on the Regional Planning Commission's 25
year plan with regard to transportation developments. It is not a funded
project. It is not an engineered project by any means. It does indicate that
Crossover Road will not be necessarily that eastern bypass unless that
policy document is changed.
Anthes: Remind me, has there been some conversation about improvements to
Crossover Road?
Warrick: North of Mission there have been conversations about that. It is becoming
a priority. I can't tell you where it is in the list of funded verses non-
funded sort of projects but it has been under discussion and it is
recognized as a need.
Anthes: I guess why I'm asking this question is that I am thinking about major
intersections and what we would like to see in those kinds of nodes. We
are looking at Hwy. 16 which carries all of the traffic headed east out of
town in that direction and Hwy. 265 which is heavily traveled. I guess I
have to question on that king of major intersection as we are looking into
the future whether mini storage is really a proper thing to approve a
Conditional Use for. I do believe the applicant has done a good job by
putting those commercial buildings on the street. I think that does a lot to
mitigate this use. Yet, we are being asked to approve a Conditional Use
on a piece of property that other uses are allowed by right. I'm kind of
struggling with this because of the commercial design issues on what is
potentially going to be a very major and busy intersection in the next ten
years in Fayetteville.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 35
Ostner: I would have to concur.
McGowan: Were you all provided the drawings that shows the buildings and the
screenings that we are proposing?
Ostner: Yes Sir. That is what I was about to say.
Anthes: This Conditional Use though is not tied to this development plan. He can
change his mind tomorrow and we would've approved this Conditional
Use, correct?
Vaught: You would also have to have a Large Scale Development come in though.
Ostner: If this was zoned so that it did not require a Conditional Use this is the
greatest mini storage I've ever seen but my concerns are similar to Ms.
Anthes and Ms. Clark that this is one of our few intersections in town that
is not completely developed and there are terrific opportunities for
commercial. This proposal doesn't utilize most of the acreage for retail.
McGowan: If you utilize it all for retail you would have to put an "L" shaped building
back in the corner behind a ditch behind a service station and that would
not be very desirable in my opinion.
Ostner: In my opinion an "L" shaped development with a little larger of a parking
lot could still get around the, it works over at Harps. They have got a huge
ditch so I'm concerned that this is one of our few commercial nodes that
we have left that is not developed yet.
Vaught: I don't mind this kind of development. I like how it has the commercial
pushed up against the street. I think that developments like Harps, as great
as it is, are things that we are trying to get away from with the large
parking lots up front and the buildings pushed to the back. It seems like
we are contradicting a lot of comments and thoughts that we have made.
The conceptual plat, that is what it is, nothing we can even take into
consideration, would be extremely nice for mini storage units. What I
really like is the fact that it is screened from the rights of way by the
commercial nodes utilizing that commercial space. I don't think I would
support a mini storage unit that came up to the road on either of these two
roads. I think this can put a front on a commercial and utilize that space.
Behind that ditch is just more problematic. That is just my opinion. I do
like how it pushes the commercial to the street though and we don't have a
parking lot expanse on the other side of that ditch. There is a chance you
can save some of those trees or some of that area back there, which is a
beautiful area, and make this a nice looking development.
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 36
Ostner: The parallel to Harps was of course not suggesting that we do huge
parking lots. It was suggesting that developments behind large drainage
areas work. This could be switched, which by the way these buildings
aren't pushed up to the street, they are simply in front of mini storage.
This is the standard parking and the street going right behind it.
Vaught: What you are suggesting is an "L" shape and therefore, if you did an "L"
shape with the buildings pushed towards the back you would have,
obviously, parking in the front. I think it would be hard to do it any other
way.
Ostner: I'm just saying that this is very valuable property and I don't believe mini
storage is a high value for planning.
Clark: Just to follow up on that, I'm reminded of the mini storage on 15`h Street
when you turn off of College onto 15`h Street there is a major mini storage
facility on the south side. There are no houses around that, there is a park
across the street but it is not a residential area and I think that is absolutely
appropriate. Commercial is absolutely appropriate, I really want
commercial to come into that side of town. It is the mini storage use that
I'm having difficulty with fitting into a neighborhood setting like we are
talking about. That is exactly what is developing out in that whole area of
town. I am not a developer, I can't tell you what will work and what will
not work, I just have real reservations about the mini storage aspect of it in
an area that is becoming increasingly residential multi -family. That is my
concern.
Shackelford: Have you calculated the percentage of this property that will be dedicated
to mini storage verses the percentage towards commercial?
McGowan: The two commercial buildings are about 7,000 sq.ft. each, the mini storage
is about 18,000 sq.ft. of floor space. I might add that's probably 30% as
big as the average mini storage project. In fact, when the question came
up about when each segment would be built, this size mini storage is not
feasible to build by itself. You couldn't afford to pay a manager to stay
there for 18,000 sq.11. of mini storage. I would guess that the average mini
storage that you see with the newer ones are closer to 70,000 or 80,000
sq.ft. It is just not feasible to build it by itself and let it stand out there
where you could see it. I have looked both ways at developing this thing
into a "L" shape commercial building and have even talked to tenants but
when you've got that ditch right there that wraps around, and it is a severe
ditch, and you've got a service station in front of it, you can't do very
much with it, if you've got a service station and a ditch basically, you
don't have anything screening your "L" shaped building and that service
station is not going to look very good trying to look at a commercial
facility. What we are trying to do is to come up with two smaller
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 37
commercial deals, one being on Crossover and one being on Huntsville
Road and basically hiding the mini storages in the back. The truth of the
matter is these mini storage buildings are pretty darn good looking and if
you will look at a facility on Gregg Avenue that is a fairly good looking
mini storage, it is exposed right out on Gregg and it is not a bad looking
deal. In fact, I have an apartment complex right there across the street
from it that I don't mind having a mini storage deal over there. I'm not
arguing your point that you don't want a good intersection trashed up with
some bad looking mini storages is the only way to put it. I really feel that
what we have laid out here is a fairly appropriate alternative that would
look good and be a good service and still have a significant amount of
commercial space like you are talking about to rent out to cleaners or
whatever. That is probably my opinion verses someone else's but that is
the way I see it. I think it is a more feasible way to try to develop that
piece of property.
Shackelford: Back to my original comments. I concur with a lot of what the applicant
said. As I look at this project from the conceptual plan, I agree that this is
a conceptual plan and things change, but this is a conceptual plan and the
Commission will have the ability to review that at the time of a Large
Scale Development. I like the multi -use facility of this, I think it is a very
unique piece of property given the fact that there is an existing gas station,
a little car wash in front of it, there is very significant drainage issues that
interfere with ingress and egress and sight visibility on this piece of
property. I like this design because I think it does keep with the influence
of the area and push the commercial up front and kind of give some
connectivity to the property. It still allows the developer not to use the
space in the back of the property that would be more difficult to develop.
Given the fact that it comes back forward in the Large Scale Development
as we anticipate that it will from the drawings, I think that it can be a
situation where the mini storage could be very understated with this
property. Obviously, when we look at this at that level screening and all of
those other comments will be addressed. I will stand by my original
comments, I think this is a good use given the differences in this property
and the differences in this design trying to allow some mini storage in this
area but not make it the focal point.
Ostner: Thank you. Is there further discussion?
Williams: I would like to just mention two things. One to the applicant, it takes five
affirmative votes in order to pass a Conditional Use and secondly, if there
are anymore comments please refer to what the Planning Division has
given you on pages 14.4 and 14.6 about the things you are looking at,
especially, a couple that I've heard discussed here is one whether it will
adversely affect the public interest and that of compatibility. Those are a
Planning Commission
September 13, 2004
Page 38
couple of things that whether you are voting for or against this you might
want to comment upon about why you are doing it.
Clark: I thought that is kind of what I did.
Ostner: Others of us might not have. Since we are about to vote, I am going to
vote against this because of the compatibility issue on the Conditional
Use. Is there further discussion?
Vaught: I seconded this and am going to stand by my second. I do think it is
compatible with the area and with surrounding uses. You see mini storage
units like this in other areas of town that are similar I think, especially
with the commercial fronting the road and helping to screen off the mini
storage. I also would like to say that this isn't necessarily a blank check.
They can't go throw up mini storage units tomorrow. If we don't feel like
it meets commercial design standards when it comes back through then it
is something that we can look at at that time and make adjustments to.
Ostner: I'm not sure mini storage has to comply with commercial design
standards. I guess I should ask staff.
Warrick: We will be reviewing this as a full commercial large scale when it is
brought back for Large Scale Development approval. Do keep in mind
that there are five criteria with regard to looking at commercial design
standards and the main issue is the appearance of the development from
the public right of way.
Ostner: If mini storage is a part of that development it falls under the Large Scale?
Warrick: If it is visible from the public right of way.
Ostner: Is there further discussion? Could you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-1163 was
approved by a vote of 6-2-0 with Commissioners Ostner and Clark voting
no.
Thomas: The motion carries.
Announcements
Meeting adjourned: 7:25 p.m.