HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-03-22 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held on Monday, March 22, 2004 at
5:30 p.m. in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
VAC 04-03.00: (Sohraby, pp 295)
Consent
ADM 04-10.00: (O'Charley's)
Consent
ADM 04-12.00: (Impact Fees)
Page 4
R-PZD 04-04.00:(Stonewood Gardens, pp 60)
Page 17
ADM 01-15.00: (Outdoor Lighting)
Page 29
James Graves
Alan Ostner
Don Bunch
Loren Shackelford
Jill Anthes
Sharon Hoover
Christian Vaught
Nancy Allen
STAFF PRESENT
Dawn Warrick
Matt Casey
Suzanne Morgan
Renee Thomas
Kit Williams
ACTION TAKEN
Forwarded to City Council
Approved
Approved
Forwarded to City Council
Forwarded to City Council
MEMBERS ABSENT
STAFF ABSENT
Jeremy Pate
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 2
Hoover: Welcome to the March 22, 2004 meeting of the Fayetteville Planning
Commission. Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call all eight commissioners were present.
Hoover: Mayor Coody, you are on the agenda.
Coody: Thanks for letting me come share your time this evening. I want to say
thanks. I know we have three folks retiring from the Planning
Commission this evening and I don't think folks recognize what a
challenge this body has to deal with all of the growth and all the issues
that come before you. This is a really important deliberative body. We all
appreciate your work very much. Last year we did 8,500 construction
permits, 300 million dollars worth of building in one year in this city
public and private. That broke all records for all previous years and it
looks like that for 2004 we are on track to break the record of 2003 so the
work load is going to intensify even more than it was last year. You guys
are on the front burner on this growth so you are having to do a lot of
work and we appreciate everything that you do. There are three of you
that are retiring from the board tonight and we wanted to recognize you
and thank you for your contributions and your willingness to spend so
much of your time for the betterment of the community. Fayetteville
couldn't operate without the spirit, cooperation and volunteerism that you
have exhibited here. The first one, Mr. Donald Bunch, it reads in
appreciation of your dedication and service to the City of Fayetteville.
Planning Commissioner Don Bunch from June, 1999 to March, 2004. We
have one for Alice Church that reads the same, Planning Commissioner
from April, 2001 to March, 2004. Thank you very much Alice. Last, but
certainly not least, my dear friend Sharon Hoover from April, 1998 to
March, 2004. You are the longest live Planning Commissioner. I also
want to say thanks to the hard working staff that generates all of this work
for you. Thank you all for everything and we look forward to more years
of new folks coming on board and working together for the betterment of
the community. Thanks.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 3
Consent Agenda:
Approval of the March 8, 2004 minutes
VAC 04-03.00: Vacation (Sohraby, pp 295) was submitted by Kazem Sohraby for
property located at 2474 Fennchurch Way. The property is zoned RSF-4, Residential
Single-family, 4 units per acre. The request is to vacate a portion of the utility easement
to allow for an existing eave.
ADM 04-10.00: Administrative Item (O'Charley's) to request an extension of the
expiration date of the Large Scale Development approved by the Planning Commission.
Hoover: The first item on our agenda tonight is consent agenda which consists of
approval of the minutes from the March 8t" meeting, VAC 04-03.00 and
ADM 04-10.00. Is there any member of the audience or the Commission
that would like to remove any of these items from the consent agenda?
Seeing none, is there a motion for approval?
Bunch: So moved.
Shackelford: Second.
Hoover: There is a motion by Commissioner Bunch and a second by Commissioner
Shackelford. Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the consent agenda
was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to zero.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 4
ADM 04-12.00: Administrative Item (Impact Fees) was submitted by Joel Fruend for
property located at 1408 Rockwood Trail. The request is to appeal the application of
impact fees under §155.06 Appeals from Stafflnterpretations /Actions allowing a waiver
of impact fees associated with a new swimming pool and pool -house development on the
subject property.
Hoover: New business item number three on the agenda is ADM 04-12.00 for
impact fees for property located at 1408 Rockwood Trail.
Warrick: This item is the first time we have brought to the Panning Commission a
request from a citizen to appeal the impact fees which have been imposed
on a project. This particular project was initiated with building and
plumbing permits which were issued on August 28, 2003 for construction
of a 288 sq.ft. pool house and storage building at 1408 Rockwood Trail,
the subject property. Then on September 9, 2003 a permit was issued for
the associated in ground swimming pool. Staff has had a couple of
conversations with the applicant with regard to this project as to whether
or not impact fees should apply to this development. New connections are
proposed to the water and wastewater systems of the city to provide for
this pool house and in ground swimming pool development. As your
impact fee administrator I was asked for an interpretation. I provided one
stating that I believed impact fees were appropriate and applicable and the
applicant has chosen to appeal that. We respectfully disagree on this item.
He is appealing under Code §155.06 which is Appeals from staff
interpretations or actions. Stating that the impact fees are in excess of the
rough proportionality of the impact of the development on the city's
infrastructure. The proposed fees for this project should they be imposed
would total $1,143. The basis of my interpretation is of course, the impact
fee ordinance which states that any new connection to the water and/or
wastewater system shall require an impact fee. Any new connection
requires capacity. Capacity is provided through capital improvements and
upgrades to those systems which are to be funded at least in part, with
impact fees collected from new developments which cause the need for
those improvements.
Hoover: Would the applicant come forward?
Freund: I'm Joel Freund and I appreciate being here. Thank you Dawn. I
appreciate what she has done. She has been very respectful and helpful in
all of this and I appreciate that. Two clarifications slightly. One s the
pool is not connected to the system in any way. It doesn't go to the waste
water or to the pool. You can fill it with a garden hose. It is not
connected directly. The pool house, while it seems fairly large, has a total
enclosed space of about 96 sq.ft., the storage room and the bathroom
facility are 6'x8' each. The rest is an open porch. It is just an open
building so there is very little enclosed space. I probably would not want
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 5
to live in something that small. The reason I requested the appeal is that
we are not adding any impact in the sense of no more people. The
bathroom is there for the convenience of our family to use the swimming
pool and not use the yard for various purposes that one wouldn't like. Our
house sits up on Rockwood Trail. Where the pool is more than 150' down
below it and lower by 12' or so more. In order to get to the existing
connection, which is certainly possible I guess, one would have to put a
pump to connect it to the wastewater, obviously not the water, but the
wastewater would have to have a pump to get the water back to the sewer
connection. It might be possible but that would certainly not be a good
idea mechanically. You have to have a pump and the pump breaks down
and there is always a problem. Are there any questions that I can answer?
Hoover: We'll have some questions for you in a minute. Right now I will open it
up to public comment. Is there anyone that would like to address this
ADM 04-12.00? I will bring it back to the Commission. I guess first I'd
like to clarify, Matt, is the pool connected to the wastewater system? I
understand it is being filled by a hose.
Casey: He indicated it is currently not but Dawn did some research earlier today
and found on the Department of Health website that it should be.
Warrick: What he is talking about is I did go the Department of Health website and
found rules and regulations pertaining to swimming pools and other
related facilities. They have sections on water and sewer in that regulation
and it does talk about the sanitary sewer servicing a pool and auxiliary
facilities shall discharge to a public sewer system wherever possible and in
accordance with applicable requirements. It does indicate that State
Health expects that chemically treated pool water will go into a sewer
system and therefore, be treated before it is discharged.
Freund: Someone should notify the pool people of that because they do not know
that.
Hoover: Are they just running it to the storm sewer?
Freund: There is nothing to run, you don't empty the pool.
Hoover: You have to backwash and some water will come out. Matt, aren't there
specific requirements?
Freund: That comes out in the yard as I've been told by the pool people?
Hoover: Do we have swimming pool requirements?
Casey: We, as a city, do not.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 6
Hoover: It all goes from the Health Department?
Warrick: This is a regulation that I'm not overly familiar with. I happen to find it
today and I thought that it was applicable so I thought that I would bring it
forward for information. Apparently that is not necessarily the procedure
that is currently followed through our plumbing permit and inspection
process.
Hoover: I just wanted to clarify. Really all you are talking about being connected
to is sanitary sewer at the moment is the bathroom?
Freund: Yes.
Williams: I have a question for staff. I doubt I guess that a building permit has been
issued yet because of this impact fee.
Warrick: Building permits have been issued. Impact fees are collected at the time
of a meter set.
Williams: When we issued building permits we did not require the pool to be
connected to the sewer to your knowledge?
Warrick: To my knowledge, no. That is handled through the Building Safety
Division.
Bunch: How do you propose to supply the water to the pool house? Are you
anticipating a new meter or are you going to run a line from your existing
meter system?
Freund: Because of the location a new meter at the bottom of the yard would be
the easiest because it wouldn't have to dig through the whole yard to get to
the top of the hill where the current connection is. I am anticipating a new
meter and a new sewer connection simply for this pool house.
Ostner: Just for clarity, could the project be done without a new water or sewer
tap?
Freund: Yes. It is not preferable. For many reasons it is not preferable. One
particular is I would have to have a grinder pump to take the waste
affluent back up the hill. That is something else that can break and does
break and has to be maintained. It would have to go through the whole
yard and that would be more destructive to the yard by far.
Casey: Just some more information on that. I spoke with David Jurgens, our
Water and Waste Water Superintendent this morning regarding the
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 7
connection and he pointed out to me a section in our ordinances that say
that separate buildings require separate connections. The answer to that
would be the grinder pump situation would not be applicable to this. It
would have to have it's own sewer service. The water service could be
provided through the existing water meter. The sewer will have to be
separate.
Ostner: Separate taps?
Casey: Yes Sir.
Ostner: Part of the way I tried to think about this to make it more clear in my mind
is what if he wanted to do all of this as an extension of his building. I
know it sounds crazy but just for the point of discussion, what if he
wanted to build a massive roof structure and put this pool and everything
he wants as an extension of his home. There wouldn't be impact fees
because we clearly say enlargement of single family homes do not require
an impact fee. That is where it just doesn't make sense to me to call this a
development with impact. If it were rearranged physically in a way then
there is no impact. It is an extension of a home. If you want to break it up
architecturally or design wise or there is a long, steep lot or whatever
suddenly the definition has changed to a development with an impact and
that seems confusing. It doesn't seem like a development in that sense I
guess.
Shackelford: I concur with what Commissioner Ostner is saying and I struggle in a
couple of areas also. If you look at the revised impact fee study that was
handed out prior to the meeting prepared by Duncan & Associates two
points that I keep coming back to. In the second paragraph it says that
impact fees are designed to ensure that new development contributes a fair
share of the costs of the capital improvements needed to serve this growth.
I don't know that this project requires the same fee as a new single family
residence to pay it's fair share on the cost of capital improvements needed
to serve the growth. This project, as I understand, will add no new
population to the house. It probably is going to take service that probably
would've been used in other areas of the house to this location. The fourth
paragraph also states that the impact fees are made to ensure that new
development pays a fair share of the cost of infrastructure needed to serve
it. Again, I struggle in the same area. I don't know that since this fee that
we are asking for would be the same fee as a new single family residence
that is going to bring new population base to the system, I don't know that
it is a fair assessment that this improvement is going to force the cost of
infrastructure needed so I am struggling with saying that it is on the same
foundation and basis of a new single family residence and the same fee
should be applicable.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 8
Anthes: I too am struggling with the amount that we are talking about here. To me
there is a difference in that this facility will require a new connection. The
pool will probably be filled with water at the new pool house at the new
connection so the pool does have some impact to the water service. I
agree that you won't be adding population in terms of your home
residence but there might be a considerably larger amount of people using
the toilet facilities and the showers at the residence as a result of the pool
because a lot of people invite a lot of friends over to use pools. It is an
unfortunate situation in that you are down hill but the fact that the new tap
is required indicates to me that there is something that we have to do when
we look at how our ordinances are stated and it talks about when there is
new service any new connection requires capacity and when Matt tells us
that our ordinances say when there is a separate building that we do
require a fee. To me the question is what fee is correct and to me the
$1,143 is much too large to be roughly proportional.
Freund: If we didn't add a bathroom facility down below whatever people we have
would use the house. The problem is there are some children involved
who might not.
Vaught: I would agree with the Commissioners that stated they don't agree with
the amount. We are talking about adding a new bathroom. I feel like it is
a situation where the individual is being penalized for the location of their
house. As Commissioner Ostner stated, if this had been a flat lot and they
could've attached it to the house there would've been no new impact at all
and that is what I keep coming back to. It is a new tap but it is not really
development to me, especially in the terms of the ordinance that exempts
additions to single family homes. I just look at this as an addition almost
with an unfortunate lot. I don't see requiring, especially an $1,100 impact
fee and I just don't know of a good way to try to back into what is fair. At
setting a precedent for further appeals to come before us I don't feel right
pulling something out of the air and saying here it is, pay this amount and
that's fair. I think that would be unfair as well unless we can find a way to
calculate what the impact would be. I lean toward the appeal that it is not
a new development, it is simply an expansion of a single family residence.
Bunch: Could we ask the City Attorney for some additional information on this? I
know that we have gone through the rough proportionality deliberations
previously with sidewalks and I think that is what caused it to be in the
UDC. Can you shed some light on how rough proportionality is
determined or not determined? I understand it is a specific term that has
an intended vagueness by design. Can you give us some guidance on that
please?
Williams: When the Supreme Court came up with that term they obviously realized
that it would be bodies like you and situations like this where you would
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 9
have to apply it. They specifically said that no mathematical calculations
would be required of this. Some of these things are very difficult to
quantify without doing a test that would be more expensive, or a study that
would be more expensive than any fee the city may ever return from this.
You have to use your common sense judgment on this to make an
individualized determination that the required dedication is related to the
extent of the impact on the proposed development. I think several
Commissioners have been talking about that and making a lot of sense.
Whether or not this is a development I think that it basically does fit our
Unified Development Code definition of a development even though
certainly the amount of development is very small in this regard when it
comes to the impact on our water and wastewater system. Therefore, I
think that you probably are correct that the single family house
designation of $1,100 is probably far in excess of what this actual impact
will be on our system. An argument can be made by Mr. Freund that there
is no impact at all. He has made that argument. For the record I should
note that I've known Mr. Freund for about 30 years now and used to go
canoeing with him back in our youth. However, I think I can probably
still give you advice without any concerns there. I should note that for the
record that I've known Dr. Freund for many years now.
Shackelford: A follow up question for the attorney if you don't mind. You know this
ordinance better than we do. Are you saying that we, as a Planning
Commission, would have the authority through rough proportionality to
negotiate an impact fee less than what the ordinance states? Do you think
we have the authority to make that negotiation?
Williams: You can't negotiate it but you can determine it. If you look at the actual
rough proportionality ordinance that was passed by the City Council and
also approved by this Planning Commission before it went to the City
Council, it says if the requirements are in excess of the rough
proportionality the Planning Commission is empowered to modify or
reduce such requirements to achieve rough proportionality. You don't
negotiate with him, you can listen to him. You will determine and you
certainly can determine less than the initial cost for a single family home.
That is exactly why this ordinance was passed, the City Council gave you
all that power.
Allen: I agree with Commissioner Anthes that there is some impact. We will
have a new water connection there. It is precedent setting so I hate for us
to arbitrarily say this time it doesn't matter but another time it might. If
we can set a figure I might suggest 1/8 of that might be an appropriate
amount, which would be $130.
Williams: You certainly are allowed. The Planning Commission as a whole should
set a figure.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 10
Anthes: I was trying to back into it a different way. What I was thinking is a single
family residence is probably two bathrooms so if you take half of $1,143 it
is $571 and then you think this one would probably be used half the time
of a regular one and will offset some of the use of the other ones so half of
that is $285 so I think somewhere probably between the $180 or the $285
is probably the impact of this facility.
Warrick: One of the examples that I used as part of my conversations with Dr.
Freund had to do with the example that many people bring forward. I
would like to install an irrigation system. I already water my yard, there is
no new impact. Our ordinance specifically addresses irrigation systems as
new impact and charges water only. It does not charge the waste water
fee. Part of the reason for that is that when you have two meters and you
are established in that you have service in two different locations in your
house and in your yard you can turn on your yard meter, run it at full blast
and flush every toilet in your house and run your dishwasher and your
washing machine if you wish and you are causing a demand on the system
that relates to the fact that you have two connections because the system
has to have enough capacity in it to provide for both meters to operate at
the same time. That was part of my rational in the interpretation and
determination that I came to and I feel like that is somewhat important in
this case because there is some impact being drawn on the public water
system and wastewater when you are looking at adding these types of
facilities.
Allen: I'd like to suggest that if we do come up with an arbitrary figure tonight
that we perhaps as we move forward with new Commissioners also add
this to a workshop agenda item along with my concerns about what is a
box in terms of the Commercial Design Standards because I don't think
that we should see person after person and say oh, $150 or $80 for you,
$300 for you. I think that we need to have a policy.
Williams: I would like to say that of course the figure you come up with is not going
to be arbitrary but well reasoned. What the Supreme Court has asked is
for an individualized determination. The fact of the matter is that many
different situations are going to be confronted to this Planning
Commission where you will have to use your individualized decision
making powers to cover them. I am not saying that you can't look at these
in a broader context like you did with sidewalks where the City Council
made some presumptions about what the appropriate amount would be but
I wouldn't be concerned about the fact that you are having to make an
individualized decision tonight because that is exactly what the Supreme
Court said was a due process requirement when an appeal like this would
be held for you. I have great confidence in your common sense judgment
and so does the Supreme Court to make a good decision.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 11
Allen: Perhaps you have more confidence in us than you should have since it is
really difficult to look at his swimming pool and know exactly the impact.
Bunch: As we deliberate on the amount, let's make sure, are we talking about both
a water and sewer tap or just a sewer tap? From the information that we
received from our engineer he said that the sewer department requires a
sewer tap and it has been rather vague as to whether or not there is going
to be a water tap. The question we still need to resolve is how is the water
supplied to the pool house?
Freund: My preference would be a new tap to that simply because it is a straight
shot from the pool house, less of a distance, it doesn't go down through
the middle of a yard, which is what would have to happen to use the
existing water tap.
Bunch: It would go through the construction area that is already disturbed between
the pool and the property?
Freund: It would go from the street north to where the pool house is. From the
existing one it would have to go from the street due east and then north
through the middle of the yard.
Bunch: It becomes a question of economics to you and cost as to whether you
want to run the line from your existing meter or whether you want to put a
new meter in. Those are decisions that you have to make. I think what we
need to do here is set a price of what a new meter would be and then it is
up to you whether or not you use a new water meter. We know from our
engineer Matt Casey an additional sewer tap is required so I think we can
deliberate on that to determine that fee and then also on the water and then
it would be your choice as to whether to set that meter or to run a line
from your existing meter. One thing we might look at in our deliberations
is the multi -family dwelling fees that are less than single family. This is a
figure that is arrived at to include such things as efficiency apartments
which have a small kitchen and small bathroom. I think that obviously
this is not an efficiency apartment but that starts a descending scale and I
think to me that would be the upper end of our considerations would be
the least cost in our fee schedule which is for a multi -family unit, one unit
in a multi -family complex.
Shackelford: I have a question of staff. I'm approaching it I guess from a little different
direction. I hear what other Commissioners are saying in regards to trying
to figure out what other houses have as far as bathrooms. We do have to
remember, and Don hit on it just then, water and wastewater is provided
and used by other places other than bathrooms in a house. Kitchens can
be one of the main ones. I am trying to look at it more as a square footage
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 12
deal. Our background states that this is a 288 sq.ft. addition. The
applicant has said that it is, in fact, a 96 sq.ft. addition. There is a pretty
big discrepancy there. Can you clear that up for us?
Warrick: The building permit application indicates 288 sq.ft. of work.
Freund: The building permit must include all of the square footage that is poured.
Shackelford: The same thing on a single residence application you would show
whatever is in the garage and under the porch and that sort of thing as
well?
Warrick: Correct.
Freund: There is actually one bathroom of about 48 sq.ft.
Anthes: What we have here is an appeal and a denial of this appeal means that he
must pay fees and an approval of the appeal means that he would not pay
any fees. If we were going to alter those fees is that a second motion that
would incur after the denial of the appeal?
Williams: No, I think an approval of the appeal would need to be tied to a figure. I
guess your figure could be zero if you feel like there is absolutely no
impact to our system. Other than that, just reading the statute if you
determine that the requirements are in excess of the rough proportionality
the Planning Commission is empowered to modify or reduce, it doesn't
say eliminate but if you want to reduce it to zero I think you could
probably do that, such requirements to achieve rough proportionality. I
would say that procedurally it would be better for someone to say that I
believe the rough proportionality in this particular case is equal to such
and such figure and make that as your motion. You would be granting the
appeal if you reduce it by even one dollar. If you deny the appeal then
you are saying that he must pay at the rate determined by the Impact Fee
Administrator.
Vaught: What I'm having a hard time with is, and I like the exemption for single
family residences, but if I were to add three bedrooms and two baths to my
house it would have a far greater impact than this development, yet be
exempt, because it doesn't require a new tap. How was that arrived in the
process of crafting the ordinance?
Warrick: Through 18 months of research and many, many months of drafts being
brought forward and deliberated by the City Council. They determined a
single family equivalence and that is how $1,143 was determined for a
single family home, $835 for wastewater and $308 for water. It is based
on an average and equivalent amount. There was research done on
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 13
consumption rates and on current users of the system so it was averaged
and again, it is not going to address every situation perfectly.
Vaught: My question is on additions, say I was to build two more bathrooms onto
my house, I would pay nothing.
Warrick: The City Council chose to exempt single family additions.
Vaught: In this situation I'm having a hard time differentiating between this and an
addition to his house. It is just the unfortunate lye of the lot. I have a
really hard time, I know I don't agree with the whole $1,100 fee for rough
proportionality but I'm having trouble with any fee in rough
proportionality. I look at it as the demand on the system being the use not
just the number of taps. I don't know how other Commissioners feel on
that or staff, if you want to address that, how that usually works out. That
is the way I look at it. Yes it is another tap but will the true demand of the
water running and the toilet being flushed increase that greatly?
Williams: If I can respond a little Commissioner Vaught, the decision not to have
any impact fee for an enlargement of a house was a policy decision by the
City Council. For a commercial development if that was enlarged then
there would be an impact fee. There were certain other things like the
affordable housing exemption that were made by the City Council as a
form of policy statement. Even though that's correct of course if you
enlarge your house you are not going to get a second tap. The City
Council expressly, as Dawn stated, placed a water impact fee on irrigation
systems. I think that not everything a single family homeowner will do is
going to be exempted from this impact fee statement. I think that was a
policy decision they made even though there could be some impact if you
enlarged your house substantially and put in new bathrooms or a new
washer or something like that.
Vaught: My question is does a new tap equate that much more use?
Hoover: I think I would like staff to answer how much does it cost the city to do a
tap. What is the actual cost? Are we going to find out we're losing
money?
Casey: You pay for the tap in addition to the impact fee.
Ostner: I paid $600 for a water tap and another $600 for a street cut. Very few
taps are out of the street. If you are lucky you don't have to do a street
cut. That is from my memory of two years ago. That is what it cost me as
a user as a contractor.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 14
Conklin: I just wanted to clarify too that the tap fee is paying for the staff time to go
out there to make that installation. That's what that fee is paying for.
Hoover: You are saying the basic tap fee?
Conklin: Yes, the basis for the tap. The impact fee is paying for what Dawn
Warrick talked about earlier, the ability if you have one tap and you are
adding onto your home and you turn your showers on in all three
bathrooms or whatever, you only have a certain ability to get water
through that one meter. When you add that second meter you are doubling
your capacity so our impact fees were based on what does it take to
provide that capacity for those meters and for the storage and distribution
of our water. It is all based on the ability, what kind of capacity are you
purchasing for that individual use, single family home or non-residential
development.
Hoover: What is the fee for a water tap and a sewer tap?
Casey: I believe for the standard 3/4" water tap for a single family home would be
$425, it is $525 for a sewer.
Bunch: I would like direct my fellow commissioners to page 3.5 of our packet
under paragraph three of mixed use where it speaks to residential and non-
residential on the same land use area that it is a cumulative affect of all of
the taps that are made if there are multiple taps made and also the principal
of having an impact fee for irrigation meters. I think the City Council has
given a very definite intent that we want to have charges and I think that
the question before us is to accept that the City Council and through the
requirement of additional sewer taps that impact fees are required. I think
that the question that is really facing us is how much. I spend a
considerable amount of time in the electrical industry and we were subject
to demand charges where during the peak period of usage their demand
was determined by the electric utilities and then after that peak usage was
determined during a peak usage period primarily in the summer time and
then there were demand charges that were charged year around regardless
of what the actual usage was and that was to be able to have the connected
capacity to supply to the user whatever they could potentially use. This is
an accepted principal that is used in utility situations of having a demand
charge or being able to charge for connected capacity. I think what we
need to look at here is to make a determination of just what sort of
demands are placed on the system and what would be a fair amount to
charge. It is obvious, and it is an established principal, that demand
charges are applicable and are reasonable.
Ostner: I have been very much agreeing with you Commissioner Vaught of how
much impact is this but something that I'm realizing with Commissioner
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 15
Bunch talking with a new water tap it is not about what he is proposing.
He has the ability to do a lot of things. He has the ability to put a
landscape meter and for some reason a washer and dryer. It is sort of like
when we rezone a piece of property. There are rights given after that and
I'm understanding more about why a landscape and irrigation meter would
be clearly defined as development and impact and I'm seeing that. I'm
inclined to just call the multi -family $812 a fair number because this is not
an independent dwelling. No one is living there and this is the least on our
fee scale that we have been offered. That is just my first idea on that.
Hoover: I was just going to pose the question to staff have you thought about this
and perhaps what would be the best way to look at it as far as determining
a number if we decided to go this direction?
Warrick: In short, no. I have not come with a recommendation for a reduced fee. I
think that there is merit in all of the different discussions and evaluations
that each of you have brought forward and I will impose whichever fee
you think is appropriate should you choose to believe that one should be
applied in this situation.
Shackelford: I've got two numbers that I would like to pose. I agree, I think we should
start with the basis of a multi -family unit. I think that is going to be the
closest as far as trying to match actual usage and impact of anything but I
think we've got to make adjustments to that number. I go at it two
different ways. First of all, let's assume a one bedroom apartment would
get the impact fee of $812. It is probably 600 sq.ft. roughly for a one
bedroom apartment. This is roughly 100 sq.ft. of improvements so if you
looked at it as having 1/6 of the impact of a single bedroom apartment that
fee would be $135. The other way I went at it was that $112 fee for the
single bedroom apartment probably generated water usage and waste
water usage in three different areas, a kitchen, a utility room and a
bathroom. This being just a single bathroom I could see the argument
being made that it would have 1/3 the effect of an apartment which would
be $270. Either one of those two calculations I think I could get
comfortable with.
Warrick: I really don't mean to make any of this anymore difficult but it is very
important that whatever number is derived, I need to know how much of
that number goes into the water account and how much goes into the
wastewater account because they have to be discreetly separated. There
are two different accounts that these monies have to be forwarded into.
Vaught: If my math is correct on the multi -family at 1/3 it would be $197 for
wastewater and $73 for water.
Ostner: Is there a formula forever in the future to come back to?
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 16
Vaught: I think that as we talk about with other Conditional Uses each one is a
finding of fact particularly for that Conditional Use so that we don't
necessarily set a permanent precedent by our actions tonight. They can
appeal no matter what we come up with so even if we were perfectly
consistent they can still try to fight us on it.
Ostner: It would seem helpful instead of seeing every single pool challenge Ms.
Warrick that there are a lot of pools to be in the next year or five or ten
years is just sharing our logic tonight is all I'm asking for.
Shackelford: I'm going to float a motion and see what sort of approval we can get. I'm
going to make a motion that we approve ADM 04-12.00 with the
adjustment of the impact fee to the assessment of $270. I'm basing that
$270 calculation on the fact that I would assume this project would have
approximately 1/3 of the impact of a single family apartment so it is 1/3 of
the multi -family impact. Of that $270 trying to keep the ratio the same
between wastewater and water I'm going to say that $197 of that proposed
impact fee go for wastewater and $73 go for water impact.
Graves: Second.
Hoover: I have a motion by Commissioner Shackelford and a second by
Commissioner Graves, is there more discussion?
Bunch: A question for staff. On a new development where a new house and a new
pool are being built simultaneously how do you address it?
Warrick: It depends on how many taps they need.
Bunch: It would be an impact fee per tap?
Warrick: A single family home would generate the standard $1,143 impact fee. If
they were making a connection to the water system solely for the pool or
for some other type of meter use then it would be a water only fee. If they
had a water and a sewer connection it would be based on the size meter
that was being installed to provide water.
Hoover: Is there any other discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the appeal with a
lesser amount of $270 was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 17
R-PZD 04-04.00: Residential Planned Zoning District (Stonewood Gardens, pp 60)
was submitted by David Gilbert of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of Mark Foster for
property located on Crossover Road, immediately north of the Stonewood subdivision.
The property is zoned R -O, Residential Office, and contains approximately 3.36 acres.
The request is to rezone the property to an R-PZD to allow the development of 14 lots
with 12 single-family dwelling units proposed.
Hoover: Item number four on the agenda is R-PZD 04-04.00 for Stonewood
Gardens.
Warrick: This is a request for a Residential Planned Zoning District. The project is
called Stonewood Gardens and is located on 3.36 acres north of the
Stonewood subdivision, which is on the east side of Crossover Road. The
proposal is for a single family dwelling with 12 lots with single family
homes. Additionally, two lots would contain common space and detention
for the project. The total density being proposed on this 3.36 acre site is
3.4 dwelling units per acre. The project site is currently zoned R -O,
Residential Office. The development is proposed to have one access to
Crossover Road and they are proposing to have a private street with
controlled access gates. Surrounding development, the site is currently
vacant. Surrounding development includes single family homes to the
north and south and east and Lake Fayetteville across Crossover Road to
the west. Water and sewer will be extended from the area along Crossover
Road to provide for this development. Current tree canopy on the site is
9.1%. 6.6% will be preserved with the difference being made up with
sixteen mitigation trees to be installed with the development. Staff is
recommending in favor of this Planned Zoning District. We have fifteen
recommended conditions. Some of those primary conditions include the
fact that this does have to go forward to the City Council because it is a
land use decision as well as development combined. We are asking the
Planning Commission to determine the policy of community character as
defined in our General Plan and to discuss that with relation to this
particular project. That guiding policy is stated as 9.19D to discourage
perimeter walls and guardhouses around the perimeter of new residential
developments and promote connectivity to increase acceptability and
provide more livable neighborhoods. Staff has made a couple of findings
with regard to this particular policy. The first is that the proposed
perimeter wall we do find to be compatible with the existing walls that are
being developed with the Stonewood subdivision which is to the south,
along with numerous subdivisions along Crossover Road because of the
character of this street as a state highway. Staff also finds vehicular
connectivity to be unnecessary and unavailable really because of existing
development to the south and to the east. There is a sidewalk that will be
built along Crossover Road to provide pedestrian connectivity. Staff is
recommending a sidewalk connection along the private street to connect
with the required sidewalk along Crossover Road so that the internal
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 18
pedestrian circulation does extend to connect to the sidewalk along
crossover. We are asking Planning Commission to make a determination
of appropriateness of sidewalks within the development along this private
street. Staff recommends that they be considered. Itis nota requirement f
our Unified Development Code for private streets to have sidewalks. The
allowed uses proposed for this R-PZD include single family residential
only. There are findings within your packet with regard to the land use
decision that you will be making along with this development proposal.
Staff does find that a 14 lot, 12 single family home subdivision in this
location is compatible. It is consistent with the city's General Plan which
calls this area out to be residential and it is compatible, as I said, with the
surrounding properties which consist of single family dwellings and to the
south vacant R -O, Residential Office zoned property. With that I will be
happy to answer any questions that you may have. I have spoken with the
applicant's engineer. They are not opposed to the conditions of approval
as they are stated. We do not, however, have signed conditions at this
point in time.
Hoover: Thank you. Would the applicant come forward please?
Gilbert: Good evening, my name is David Gilbert. I'm with Jorgensen &
Associates.
Hoover: Do you have anything to add?
Gilbert: I appreciate your time this evening and will try not to use up anymore of it
than is necessary. Our client is hoping to gain your approval to do
something rather unique on this piece of property to develop this gated
community which lies at the north entry to Fayetteville on Hwy. 265. It is
just a couple hundred yards from the city limits on the north end. His
desire is to take what is actually a very nice piece of property. It is an
open lawn with lots of very large trees and to maintain those trees but at
the same time bring in some housing into this piece of property. His
desire is to do something very nice. The intent here, the reason for the
Planned Zoning development request as opposed to just straight forward
subdivision, is so that he can build these homes in a clustered manner
which will develop sort of a unique neighborhood feel to this and to build
some homes that are rather closely spaced which preserves a lot of the
property as common area, it is a common concept known as clustering of
the homes. This is his intent here. You may see from looking at the
layout of the property that we are proposing a private street along what
would be the fronts of the lots. At the same time there is a private drive
which circles 10 of the 12 buildable lots. The purpose of this drive is to
take vehicular access off of the street and put it behind the home. Simply
put, our client wishes to develop homes in this neighborhood that are close
together but to have homes, the facades of which are not dominated by a
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 19
garage door. Those of you that have any planning experience or
architectural background will understand that as a common element of
architecture these days is that suburban architecture, all of the facades are
dominated by garage doors. We are trying to get away from that here and
get those doors on the back of homes so that the fronts present something
more of a village character than of your typical suburban development.
We have looked at the idea of placing sidewalks along Stonewood Court,
the private street. We believe that the sidewalks, aside from being
necessary, might be detrimental to the character that we are trying to
develop here. Frankly, we've got 12 lots, if each home has two cars and
everybody came home at the same time that's 24 cars on the street at once
and then nobody is there for the rest of the day. We believe that the
private street will serve adequately for pedestrian access. That is the
people who live here it is going to be gated, not just anybody can come in
here. Traffic will be extremely light and we believe that people will do, as
they do in my neighborhood, we walk in the street anyway because the
sidewalks are constructed in a rather unique fashion which makes them
unusable. We don't want to put in sidewalks here that can't be used. We
would rather not put in impervious hard surface that will not be used.
That is one of the characteristics of development. The more that we
develop the more that we pave. Here is an opportunity where we can pave
a little bit less by not putting in the sidewalks and allow the grass to be in
place there and to serve it's natural function. At the same time we don't
believe that the pedestrian access will be compromised because there will
be so little traffic on Stonewood. Basically, past lot 1 everybody is already
off the street except for the visitors so we believe Stonewood will serve
perfectly well for that and we appreciate your consideration there. We
have made some interesting choices on the sidewalk along Crossover
Road. That's just what the sidewalk needs to look like to miss all of the
trees. We would prefer in this case there are several rather large, mature
trees in the right of way. Standard sidewalk policy, which is a 6' sidewalk
right at the property line at a given slope, would require removal of several
of these trees. That is not something that we want to see, it is not
something our client wants to see. We don't believe it is in the best
interest of the City of Fayetteville to do that. The staff has been gracious
to work with us on some alternate routing here and yes, it does look
unusual but you'll notice it manages to miss just about every tree on the
place. That is the reason for that configuration. We are still working
through a couple of issues. One of the conditions has to do with the
placement of the perimeter wall in the utility easement along the front.
We are going to be making changes to, in all likelihood, the easement
locations rather than the wall location. We feel that the aesthetic of the
wall is very important and we would like to keep something very similar
to what we have shown you here on the plan. To do that though and to be
able to work with the needs of the utility departments we are going to have
to make some modifications to the easements there on the front. We are
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 20
prepared to do that, we just have not had a chance at this point to get those
completely ironed out. We believe that with the tree natured of this site
that this is going to be a great access to the City of Fayetteville. Hopefully
it will serve to enhance entry into the city and we appreciate your
consideration on this project.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any member of the audience that would like to
address this R-PZD 04-04.00 for Stonewood Gardens? Seeing none, I will
bring it back to the Commission.
Allen: At Subdivision Committee David we talked with you a little bit about our
lack of knowledge about gated communities since that is new to us and we
asked you a few things about safety and fire and ambulance. I wondered
if you could tell us a bit about what you've learned since then?
Gilbert: Yes Ma'am. I appreciate that. Gated communities are relatively new in
our area and particularly to the City of Fayetteville. They are not a new
concept in larger markets in other places. In fact, in Rogers particularly
around the Pinnacle Golf Course area they are quite common. One of the
features that you will find in a gated community is a pedestal at the entry
with certain control functions. The one we went to you basically drove
up, you pushed the button, it told you what number you needed to dial,
you entered that code and it actually rang the code in the home of the
person you are going to see. They can then press one button on their
phone and open the gate for you. For guests probably something very
similar to that would be what would be in operation here. That will handle
the routine as far as the guests go. In more routine matters there are
matters of delivery and I believe that would be appropriate for deliveries
as well for the delivery person to ring the home and then gain access to the
subdivision. If they are not able to, I know for example at my home, not
that I'm behind a gate, but if I'm not home and they need me to sign for a
package they just take it back and leave me a note saying we couldn't get
in. I don't think that would be any drastic interruption should the
homeowner be away at that point. Mail service is one thing we were
looking at. We really have not quite decided. We are thinking that in all
likelihood the Postal Service is going to want to see a community mailbox
outside the gate. That is something we have also seen up in the Rogers
area and probably will be the best solution for this development. Beyond
that we really haven't given too much consideration to mail service. The
postal service, anytime you do any type of subdivision anymore they tend
to like the community mailbox better anyway rather than the individual
route type boxes at each home. That is the direction we are leaning at this
point as far as postal service. Trash collection is an issue. I spoke with
Mr. Foster about this issue and the plan at the present time would be that
on trash days the gate would be left open during the daylight hours so that
they trash collection vehicle can get into Stonewood Court, make the
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 21
pickup at the individual homes. We do not want to have a central rubbish
station outside the gate that would be unsightly and very nearly impossible
to keep clean. We are aiming for individual, typical, residential trash
collection. I believe that Mr. Foster's proposal to leave that gate open
during daylight hours on whatever day that the waste collection company
sets as the day to collect those cans would function in that regard. We
spoke about this and Mr. Foster's opinion was that if the gate for some
reason is not left open that he would understand and the residents would
have to understand that they don't get trash pick up that day. It kind of
leaves an incentive there to keep that gate open on that trash collection
day. The final issue, and probably the most important one that we
discussed to my recollection at Subdivision Committee, has to do with
emergency access. There are some particular features that we can
incorporate there. Typically what you would do when you had a gate, not
an operational gate, but a fire control gate. That would be a gate that is
chained and padlocked. On the post of the gate would be a knox box.
That is a box to which the Fire Department has a key. They are master
keys so they are there. They have the key when they arrive at the scene.
The Fire Department key opens the knox box. Inside that box is a key to
that particular gate. That is a standardized solution that is used all over the
area and in larger, metropolitan areas as well, to gain access. Seeing as
how this gate would not have a lock per say, a key operated lock, what we
are proposing is to inscribe a metal tag with the code. We want to use a
metal tag for durability and we want to inscribe it so that the ink doesn't
wear out. Basically, an engraved metal tag in the knox box, so that the
Fire Department can arrive at the scene, open the knox box, take out the
tag and use that code to open the gate and gain access. That's the best
solution we've come up with to this point. There may be some control
features, I know if you go into any elevator there is a Fire Department key
slot and they walk into the elevator put in their key and turn it and that key
gives them command functions completely unlike anything of normal
elevator operation. They can make it do whatever they want to make it do.
It may be that we will need to do something like that to have a Fire
Department key on the control panel and that key would reside in the knox
box. Those are just some of the ideas that we have come up with to this
point. That would facilitate access to Fire, Police and to EMS as well.
We believe that will serve that function very well. Was there any other
access we were talking about that I've forgotten?
Allen: I don't think so. It does make one wonder why there would be a need for
a gated community when one day a week the gates are open and the access
is available.
Gilbert: Gates largely are a psychological function. To be quite honest, they serve
their best psychological benefit during the evening hours. When it is dark
you don't have to worry about anybody cruising up and down the street
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 22
that doesn't belong there. That is the main function of the gate in
instances like this. There are some other issues in other areas of
exclusivity. A lot of it has to do with image and the fact that people want
to feel safer. This is not an unsafe area, it never has been and it still is not.
We've got a lot of people moving into this area from other places. They
don't know this town like we do and they don't understand that so they
still may have some concerns. The fact that these units are selling with
very high demand from all I can tell in the Rogers area, shows that there is
a market for this. People do want this.
Allen: Thank you.
Hoover: Are there other questions or comments?
Bunch: Dave, on the subject of fence verses wall in your letter of March 15`h you
mentioned that it would be masonry panels rather than a wall with
individual columns supporting it. Is that still the thinking? Then I want to
ask Matt if that would be considered a wall or a fence. The rest of it I
believe is brick pilasters with wrought iron in between. How would this
fit with the determination or in the definition of whether or not it is a
structure verses a fence as far as easement issues are concerned?
Casey: We determined that anything requiring a footing is considered a structure.
The columns on the fence would be required to have a footing. It may be
2x2 or 18"x18" but it is still a footing and it is not something that could be
removed without damaging by our water and sewer or any other utilities
that are trying to do maintenance on their utilities in that area.
Bunch: Then the resolution would be that if it maintained the same fence line to
have the fun task of trying to describe a proper easement to follow that
fence line.
Gilbert: The easement that exists on Lot 14 is already going to be so much fun to
describe that I don't know that it could be anymore fun by changing the
easement along the front. The reason behind that irregular easement on
Lot 14 is strictly for tree preservation. I know it is odd and it is hard to
make out but it does manage to miss nearly all of the trees so that was one
thing we were aiming for. To answer your question, the statements in the
letter still hold and this is something that I was not entirely clear on at
Subdivision Committee and I apologize for that. The wall would be the
same type as was built around the Stonewood Subdivision to the south and
east of this piece of property. The method of construction for that is that
columns that do have footings are constructed. They are brick columns,
brick pilasters if you will. The support is arranged for the masonry panel
which is then laid one brick at a time to make a panel that basically fills
the gap between the columns. When the mortar has set sufficiently that
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 23
support is removed and in some places these walls or fence panels do not
even touch the ground. They do not bear on the ground through their
length so there is not a continual footing but there is still a footing at each
column and those columns are awfully hard to get any further apart than
about 12' for reasons of strength in holding the wall up. It is not as bad as
maybe it first seemed. I had envisioned earlier that this wall would have a
continuous strip footing. That is not the case so it will not have the impact
that I had first imagined but it still does fall within the definition of
placing structures on an easement. We will revise accordingly.
Bunch: Thank you.
Hoover: One of the conditions of approval I guess that we should be discussing is
staff is recommending a 4' sidewalk to be placed along the private street
to connect to pedestrian access along Crossover Road. Can we discuss
that on the need or not? Commissioner Allen, was there discussion at
Subdivision about that?
Allen: Yes there was. Personally I feel like that he has made a good argument
against the need for the sidewalk.
Bunch: I will concur. It is a 14' road through lot 14. Because of the minimal
traffic and because it is a gated community, that in itself will probably
wind up being a trail that is used for people to walk laps and that sort of
thing. If you look at the distance from the lots down to the sidewalk on
Hwy. 265 it is not that great of a distance. We are looking at minimal
traffic except for maybe the days that the gates are open for the trash and
recycling service to come in. We can all go look at it on those days. I
think that there are enough paved structures in the subdivision to
accommodate pedestrian traffic without having to add additional
sidewalks because of the limitations that are placed on vehicular traffic.
Hoover: Are there any other comments on sidewalks?
Ostner: I would tend to agree with those rationales. My question with that is on
page 4.8 of our packet. The paving width for the private streets for 1-20
dwelling units two ways lists as 22' wide streets. I am just wondering
why you have a 24' street bed.
Gilbert: We are working with a couple of issues here. To be honest with you, to
get an exact answer I would have to check back and see why we selected
that width. 24' is a standard width for a public street. Our intention here
was not to necessarily skimp on the materials. We do want this
Stonewood Court to be readily accessible for anyone who might visit.
There are also some issues here with fire access and we have had some
discussions with the Fire Department. As to whether a 22' drive would
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 24
meet their requirements or not I would have to go back to the file and
look. I would say in all likelihood it was primarily the intention that we
don't want it to look cheap. We don't want it to look like it was skimped
on and have what people perceive as a very narrow street running down
through here. We would like to have people feel comfortable when they
drive through in that regard. I would say that was probably the overriding
factor. Again, to be sure about fire access and such I know there are fire
lane widths that are required and Captain Farrar has been kind enough to
send those to my office but I don't have them right in front of me at the
moment. I don't remember the width, I'm sorry.
Ostner: It just sort of runs counter to the goal of less paving because we don't
want a sidewalk yet the city is only requiring us to do a 22' road bed.
Gilbert: That is understandable. We had originally a smaller cul-de-sac on the end
of Stonewood Court. During the process we did have enlarge that in order
to meet the Fire Department regulations. Those are some issues that we
are dealing with. You now have some very large trucks in Fayetteville
that they like to drive out once and a while and need to use on occasion.
We are hoping they won't bring the 90' ladder truck down the street but
you never know. We still have to be able to get it out if they do get it in
there.
Shackelford: I would probably be in support of a 24' street instead of a 22' street. My
logic for that is as I look at this development it is a unique design with the
rear entry of this there is not going to be a standardized driveway for these
houses. I envision that the guests to these will be parking in the street
right of way so I think that additional width might be helpful as people
park in the street. I would be in support of the 24' private road.
Hoover: I happen to agree. I have tried working in situations like this where we
want the narrow street but there is nowhere for guests to park. Since there
are no driveways coming off the street guests are going to have to park
here.
Shackelford: I also think the developer has done a very good job in saving greenspace
by clustering this development. I think that it is going to be aesthetically
pleasing. I don't think you're going to notice that the street is wider than
necessary.
Gilbert: I would like to point out, since you made mention of that, there are
conditions in the covenants which are in your packets. I know they are
long and I would understand if everyone has not had a chance to read all
of them because they are somewhat tedious by the time you get through
them. One of the provisions we have placed in the covenants is that all of
these trees which remain are protected by the covenants. That is
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 25
something that you don't always get in a residential subdivision in the City
of Fayetteville. These trees are magnificent and we want these trees to be
protected so we have gone to the length of staring that before any tree can
be removed before, during or after home construction whether it is in the
pouring of the driveway or the pouring of the floor slab or five years from
now when somebody decides they'd like to have that space for something
else. That approval to remove that tree has to be granted by the P.O.A.
and the city's Landscape Administrator must be consulted as a part of that
process. Obviously, we have had to make exception for trees that are dead
or dying. Those pose safety risks and we want to be able to get those out
of there. If everything is done right these trees should be available for
everybody for a long time.
Bunch: I would like to speak with the applicant about one of the conditions in the
covenants. It is number 24, where it says that brick mailboxes shall be
required with each house. Since this becomes part of the ordinance I think
that we need a little relief there in case a community mail facility is placed
on the outside of the fence. Also, incase that doesn't work out we could
leave the language in there and you would need to present it in such a way
that you could maintain that flexibility. Should the mail be delivered to
each house number 24 would stay in. Otherwise, it would be nullified by
the community mailbox.
Gilbert: Yes Sir, that is a good point. I would be happy to reword that. As you
mentioned, I think that it is important that we keep it in incase the
community mailbox is not constructed. We do need to maintain some
architectural control over those features. I would be happy to reword that
so that if the community mailbox does in fact, become a reality that that
requirement goes away and there will not be individual mailboxes at the
homes.
Ostner: I have a similar question about your covenants. Since this subdivision is
different these yards are going to be smaller. There could be zero lot lines.
There probably will be it sounds like. The numbers 13 and 14 is basically
regulating and creating a yard and grass situation. I think that it is very
possible seeing as how small these are going to be without sidewalks that
some of your homeowners might not want a yard. There could easily be a
well developed landscaped area. Here again, we are creating a legislative
act. I just wanted to ask you about that. If you wanted to, if that was a
conscious act because this is not your standard subdivision.
Gilbert: Our intention was that should there be a yard we want to see that front
yard what area is not landscaped in any other method we want to see that
covered in sod. That is a long standing discussion that no one will ever
get to the bottom of. Just as a matter of personal preference I think we've
all been through areas where they decided to seed the yards and wait for
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 26
the grass to grow as opposed to a yard that basically arrives on a truck and
you install it. We would prefer in this development to see the latter so that
we don't have to wait for grass to grow and fill in bald spots and those
sorts of things. We would prefer a very manicured look to any turf in the
front yard. It certainly was not my intention to impose turf upon anyone.
I will look at that and make whatever changes to the wording that that
would require to take that out. It is a very good point and you are correct,
it does impose turf and that certainly was not the intent. There are
provisions in the covenants that the landscaping plan must be reviewed by
the developer to make sure that everything is coherent, that everything is
appropriate and that everything works. We will be taking a look at those
as they come through on the individual homes. Thank you. You have a
good point and we will modify that to correct that mistake.
Anthes: There are a lot of conflicting messages in this particular project. The
applicant has stated New Urbanist and New Urbanism principals as the
guiding force for how they laid out this subdivision. Yet if you refer to the
Congress of New Urbanism and look at their principals the tenents include
narrower streets, on street parking, sidewalks, connectivity, abilities to
share with your neighbors. The fact that the sidewalk is being eliminated
and the gate is in place kind of flies in the face of some of those principals
as they are applied regularly throughout the country. The other thing is we
have a conflicting message in our ordinance in that we have a policy of
connectivity in the city and we have a policy to discourage perimeter walls
and gates in our city and yet we do not have any specific ruling that says
that gated communities are not part of our development palette. I find it
hard to follow our general intent of our principals and yet there is nothing
to disallow this particular type of development. I appreciate also what the
applicant has done in trying to save the trees around the property line by
causing the sidewalk to meander through them and yet as a matter of
urban design and development on a major roadway a meandering sidewalk
really doesn't make any sense from a development standpoint looking at
how it would connect to other parcels as you would continue along the
street. I just wanted to go on the record as saying those things because all
of those little things are adding up to a lot of big questions.
Gilbert: I appreciate your points. The phrase "New Urbanism" is probably one of
those catch phrases that to different people has different meanings. I
understand that there are standards in place for that. I'm happy to hear
about the congress that is covering those issues. In common usage the
phrase has been applied to the City of Fayetteville that we need to make
the City of Fayetteville a New Urbanist community. One of the principals
of New Urbanism is that no metropolitan jurisdiction should have a
population of more than 30,000 so it is going to be kind of hard to take a
city of 60,000 people and make it into one New Urbanist city. By strict
definition we would have to divide the city into at least two. Given the
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 27
physical layout with the principals and the tenants of '/z mile spheres of
influence would have to be divided a great deal. A look at the current land
use map will show that it is just not a practical issue for Fayetteville to
become a New Urbanist community in the next fifty years. The logistics
of it don't work. Having said that, it certainly is a valid and I think noble
effort, to apply some of the principals of New Urbanism to the city and
that is what we have attempted to do here is to apply some of the
principals. I know it does not meet in some regards the strict definitions
but we have attempted to cluster the homes closer together and provide
common space, which is one of the principals. We have tried to take the
garage doors off of the fronts and put them on the back so that the front
facades are not dominated by a large, blank feature which I think is one of
the principals. Those are some of the things that we have tried to
incorporate here in that. I'm sorry if I misused the reference but that was
what we were trying to convey there. To the issue of connectivity, the
area in which this project sits I think needs to be a part of discussion.
This is an area which over the last 40 or 50 years has gone from strictly
rural back when the first homes were built back there on 3 to 10 acre lots
and it is now developing. Certainly when Crossover Road was
constructed, that added to the way in which this area will build. It is
becoming urban but it is not urban yet. In this particular case to the south
we are constrained by the fact that Stonewood Subdivision does not
provide a through street onto this property and in fact, there are lots that
back up to this property so we don't have a connection point there. To the
east is a single family residence. This basically was the home that was on
this rather large parcel that has previously been subdivided to provide this
property. We can't go east without going through the house. To the
north, it is just a matter of a short distance, a couple of hundred feet until
you get to Albright Road which is on the boundary between Fayetteville
and Springdale. Albright Road does connect through. It goes to the east
for a couple of miles and connects with a couple of other streets out in the
Zion Church area way. We don't feel like we are compromising
connectivity with this project. We are taking up a very small portion of
the space that couldn't go through in any direction anyway. I hope that
will speak to your concerns about connectivity. As far as the sidewalk
goes, on the southern end of the project we have configured the sidewalk
to where it is on the right of way in a standard placement. In other words,
if we were to be able to build a straight sidewalk that would conform to
the letter of all of the city's ordinances and standards that's where that
sidewalk would be along that right of way line. As they build sidewalks to
the south they connect very easily because the sidewalk in that location is
exactly where it should be. On the north end we couldn't do that without
taking out trees and we chose not to do that because we prefer to save the
trees. We believe that the sidewalk can continue along it's path that we
have shown and come back to the right of way near Albright Road so that
as the sidewalk goes into the City of Springdale it is in a standard location
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 28
as well. Strictly speaking the frontage there just north of our project
belongs to the single family home. I'm not aware of any plans to do
anything with the single family home other than to use it as it exists. The
likelihood that the sidewalk will be built there seems rather small.
Crossover Road at some point is going to be widened, will the Highway
Department save the trees? I don't know but we wanted to do what we
could to leave them in place.
Shackelford: As I look at this property I view it as an infill development. I think that
the applicant has made a point. As I've grown up in this city I've seen
this. This property is quickly evolving from a rural area to a not so rural
area anymore. I appreciate the fact that this was an older estate type home
with a very large tract of land that came with it. Those tracts of land are
going to develop as we go forward. I think that the developer has done a
great job in basically trying to keep the beauty and integrity of the
property in place. Connectivity is very limited based on the development
that has already occurred around this property and I think that basically
what is proposed is about a best case scenario as this property develops.
With that being said, I am going to recommend that we forward to the City
Council with a recommendation for approval R-PZD 04-04.00 with all
conditions of approval except number three regarding the sidewalk be
stricken so that there will be 15 conditions of approval.
Bunch: Second.
Hoover: Is there more discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to forward R-PZD 04-04.00 to
the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to zero.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 29
ADM 01-15.00: Administrative Item (Outdoor Lighting) to adopt an ordinance that
minimizes the impact of outdoor lighting on adjacent properties and improves nighttime
visibility.
Hoover: Item number five on the agenda is ADM 01-15.00 for our Outdoor
Lighting Ordinance.
Conklin: Good evening Madam Chair and Members of the Commission. I'm Tim
Conklin, Director of Community Planning & Engineering Services. I
would first like to thank Don, Sharon and Alice for all of their years of
service. I have worked with you on many different projects and am
pleased to be here this evening with the outdoor lighting. This is
something that we started in 2001. It kind of got sidetrack a little but we
are bringing it forward. We have made some changes and I'm going to let
Leif Olson, our Associate Planner go through that with you this evening.
What we are looking at is trying to develop an ordinance that will be easy
to administer and easily understood by the development community.
Those are some of the reasons for the changes. When we did take it to
ordinance review committee there were some significant changes that
were made. Since then staff has made some additional changes and that is
the reason that we are back before you this evening to discuss this
ordinance and hopefully forward this on to the City Council. I do
appreciate all of your work on this Sharon and Don and I'm always
amazed at how much time the Planning Commissioners volunteer, not just
here at the Planning Commission twice a month but in the different sub
committees and Subdivision Committee because all of you spend hours
here at the city volunteering all of your time. This is not a paid position.
This is something that you do for the city. Also, the rapid growth that we
are experiencing in Fayetteville and record growth that we saw last year
and over the past 10 years. I want to again, thank you for that. This is
something that is not necessarily new to the City of Fayetteville. We
discuss lighting through our Large Scale Development process. In 1994
we discussed lighting with our Overlay District regulations along I-540.
We have lighting standards in different parts of different ordinances here
at the City of Fayetteville through our parking lot ordinance and our sign
ordinance. What we are attempting to do is to clarify those ordinances and
to apply the standard uniformly throughout the city. With that, I will have
Leif go through the ordinance.
Olson: Good evening Madam Chair and Members of the Planning Commission.
As Tim said, we have made some minor modifications to this. The
handout that I left there earlier tonight has the strike through on all of the
sections that have been removed and then anything that is in italics is
things that have been added to it. Most of the amendments to this were
things being removed. Page 2 of what is shown as Exhibit `B" really is
where all of the changes begin. Most of these deal with lumens regulating
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 30
the output of lights, the different whether it be a metal halide light or an
incandescent light. I think it was felt that when we get into that level of
detail there is going to be a lot of staff time. We are going to have to have
somebody out in the field with a light meter looking at these new
installations to make sure that the lumens are at the right level. We have
simplified this and brought it to the point to where all new outdoor
lighting installation excluding single family and two family residences
would have to have a full cut off light fixture directed downward. That
simplifies it. That will be shown on a site plan when staff goes out to give
the final Certificate of Occupancy. It can be visibly detected in the
daytime that yes those fixtures are installed horizontally and they are all
full cut off. In other words, all of the lighting mechanism is enclosed so
you have no light omitted above the horizontal plain. With that, if you
have any questions I would be happy to try to answer those for you. What
we are asking for is that you forward this to the City Council.
Bunch: At this time we will take public comment. Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to address the issue of the proposed lighting ordinance?
Please come forward, tell us who you are and share your comments with
US.
Thompson: My name is Kathy Thompson. I have lived in Fayetteville since 1976 and
I have just recently moved to Mt. Sequoyah. Much to my chagrin I had
an incredible view. Now I no longer have a view because of the field
lights that are at the university. I have understood that in the new lighting
ordinance, which I'm very much in favor of, I think it is wonderful and a
long time coming, that the University is excluded. Is that correct and why
is that? They are a part of our community.
Williams: Unfortunately, they are a higher state government entity than the city is
and therefore, just like virtually all of our planning ordinances, the
University does not have to follow them. They have to follow our impact
fee ordinance because they are our customer in that particular
circumstance. In circumstances where we try to regulate them they are a
higher government than us. It is just like Arkansas cannot regulate the
federal government, we are too low.
Thompson: Is there a way that in the ordinance it can be asked that the University be a
better neighbor and a better partner with the community in this respect? I
am getting ready to personally call Don Peterson and the Chancellor's
office and speak to someone there about what is happening with the bright
lights and how it is changing the feel of Fayetteville and what you see at
night. Hopefully I will get some response from them but if I don't I'm
going to start petitioning and get some sort of public input on how people
in Fayetteville feel about this. I thought I would come here and start with
you because I knew that it would come here first and then go to City
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 31
Council. I guess that even though the University is excluded is it possible
to say in the ordinance that we expect as we see up here on the wall behind
you, a strong partnership with the University of Arkansas as being one of
our goals in Fayetteville? How can we even though we know that they are
excluded legally, how can we ask them to be a part of our community and
to respect the people that live in the community and think about the people
that live here and what impact what they do has in the community? That
is what I would ask of you in Planning when you review the lighting
ordinance and send it on to City Council, if you could think about that in
some way. I'm not sure if that is possible or not, maybe it is too late.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any other member of the audience that would like to
address this outdoor lighting ordinance? Seeing none, I will bring it back
to the Commission.
Vaught: I have a question for staff. The standard variance procedures apply to this
ordinance? What is the latitude for variances?
Warrick: This is a development regulation in the Unified Development Code. A
waiver or variance to the requirements of the lighting ordinance would
come to the Planning Commission.
Vaught: From the way that I read it, some of the lighting like we have on Dickson
Street, if I'm reading this correctly would not be permitted anymore?
Olson: That is correct. Under this ordinance if that lighting were to be installed
currently it wouldn't comply.
Vaught: Would something like that be allowed as a variance?
Conklin: We did sit down with the utility companies and talk about street lighting.
There are types of street lighting that would meet this code and that are
decorative also. We are continuing to work with the utility companies,
Ozark and SWEPCO, to make sure that the street lighting that we put in
our new developments, the public street lighting, meets this code. From
that meeting they did seem willing that they could find fixtures. With
regard to Dickson Street we can find decorative fixtures that would meet
this type of code. If they used gas or fossil fuels those are exempted?
Olson: Those are exempted because they put out such a low night light. They are
a fossil fuel.
Conklin: They put out such a low amount of light that it doesn't make much
difference.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 32
Hoover: I thought in the original discussion with the lighting ordinance that we had
some examples of pedestrian lighting. I thought we talked about that.
Olson: That pedestrian lighting would be exempt, is that what you're saying?
Hoover: Right. I remember Candlewood coming up and I really was thinking
Dickson Street came up also.
Vaught: I think when we had our public comment session one time we talked about
street lighting or pedestrian lighting.
Conklin: In the original discussion we had different types of lighting based on light
output. Now we have gone to full cutoff and limited it to the uses like
display areas and parking lots, recreational areas, storage yards and that
type of use. We simplified the ordinance significantly. Once again, this
was to make it easier to administer with the staffing levels that we have
and easier to understand so we would not have to go out and measure foot
candles or lumens on each individual situation.
Hoover: I have a question also. When it went to ordinance review committee and
then it went to City Council and that is when the item was tabled for
additional review by the ordinance review committee. Are there any notes
from those meetings as to what the discussion was?
Conklin: They do not take minutes at ordinance review. The discussion as we
developed the ordinance, by the time that we got to City Council there
were significant issues or concerns with regard to the lighting levels with
the different types of fixtures. From there it got put on hold and then
when we came back to revisit this we were trying to develop something
that I've personally seen the Planning Commission and our application
over our Design Overlay district, something that is fairly simple to
administer and that is the full cutoff lighting that we see at Target and the
Olive Garden and other type of development that is easy to administer.
We have kind of modeled the ordinance after that.
Shackelford: We got into a lot of conversation about sodium verses metal halide and
different types of lighting. Will that be addressed at all?
Conklin: We have talked about that and we would like to eliminate the differences
between that because the metal halide actually provides a truer white light
and for security purposes it can be safer in many instances.
Shackelford: Thank you.
Ostner: It seems to me that this phrase "full cutoff fixture directed downwards" is
really the heart of this lighting ordinance and we are relying on that to cure
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 33
many different ails. I am not sure about the definition of downwards. No
offense but angling lights, whether they are cutoff or not, is a big deal. It
is frequently used. What is downward?
Olson: That's a good question. Typically when you talk about full cutoff lighting
directed downwards it would be where you don't have light omitted above
the horizontal plain. In other words, that light is all going to have to come
down. It cannot come up vertically from a horizontal plain. An example
would be a cobra head streetlight. It is directing the light downward but
because the actual lens of the fixture is lower than the metal part of the
fixture you are getting that light spraying out above the horizontal plain.
A full cutoff fixture by definition, the lighting mechanism is up inside of it
and it is shielded to where the light is not going to come above a
horizontal plain unless it is situated on a pole at a degree greater than
level. I don't know if that answers your question. They would have to be
installed horizontally.
Ostner: I think that's important and that needs to go in here.
Olson: If you think we need some clarification on that I would be happy to clarify
that.
Conklin: There is some language that I've seen in other ordinances that talk about
90° and use the term `nadir'. We can look at that and further define that.
Basically, the light fixture is going to be no light is going to be above the
horizontal plain level.
Ostner: I'm coming at this from, I'm playing like I'm an electrician and I've been
hired to illuminate this lot. I can take that shoe box and I can angle it a
good 10° and I'm still not going above the horizontal plain. The shoebox
enables me to twist it quite a bit and I think that is not what we want.
Conklin: That goes against the intent.
Ostner: But it is downward, it is not upward.
Conklin: There is language we can put in there to verify that.
Ostner: Maybe 5° maximum away from level, I'm not sure or dead level.
Conklin: I believe it is going to be dead level. The term full cutoff is you don't
achieve that if your light is going above the horizontal plain so we will
work on that definition.
Ostner: I was only thinking about hills. We put a lot of light fixtures on hillsides.
If you are on a hill and you are not allowed to twist it toward what you
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 34
want you can have to put a lot more fixtures than you should if you're
twisting it the proper way. Of course you can twist it the downhill way
and shine toward the only city and people can be upset at that but if you
shine it up hill or toward the slope you're not dead level but you are
minimizing your fixtures, which is part of what we want.
Olson: The purpose of the ordinance is to reduce atmospheric light pollution. I'm
not sure on a hillside by directing it, even though you may be using less
fixtures in the overall development, you are getting a lot of light pollution
by having it above a horizontal plain. I think that is a tradeoff. It is going
to have to be one or the other.
Ostner: If it is above the horizontal plain, it depends on which way you are
pointing it. If you are pointing it downhill you are omitting tons of light
pollution. If you point it uphill you are greatly reducing your area that you
are illuminating. If you can picture a light hanging, if you swivel it this
way it shines everywhere, you swivel it this way it gets very tight but if we
write our ordinance dead level they've all got to go down. I just wanted to
put that out there that I'm not sure how to resolve that. That's why I was
thinking a 5° minimum angle to allow people to try to minimize their
spread.
Olson: In an earlier draft of this we did talk about 95% of the light must be
directed downward. There again, you are getting into a situation of how
do we enforce that regulation. How do we determine that 5%? The intent
of amending this was to get away from some of those issues.
Shackelford: I have a concern regarding security lighting, wall mounted lights and that
sort of thing. I assume that there is an appeal process in which that would
be handled. Obviously, I work for a bank so I have a little unique take on
it. The location in which I work has to provide lighting for the exterior of
the building where the employees leave. They have to go across the
greenspace, across a creek, across a bridge into a parking lot. Obviously,
we are going to have to have some facilities in commercial sites, ATMs
and other situations where you want light more than just directing down
on the parking lot. Will those situations and security purposes, I've seen
commercial buildings where they want to light the back of the buildings
for fire escape and that sort of thing, will those have to come before this
Commission on a Conditional Use or an appeal process? How will that be
handled?
Conklin: Once again, the variance provisions in here could be applied. I do think
that more often though through the lighting design professionals that will
be able to use this ordinance and they will be able to accommodate their
projects and light it efficiently and meet this ordinance. I would note that
the new Lowe's that went in used full cutoff lighting on the back of their
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 35
building and it is possible to achieve some of that. As we saw earlier
tonight, I don't think that we can ever write an ordinance that is going to
cover 100% of every situation that we are going to have in Fayetteville. I
have seen full cutoff lighting used in many instances and the biggest
problems we have had are where we either turn up those shoe box lights
and create floodlights out of them or where we just put floodlights up
automatically. This is going to protect the city from having that happen.
We could use that variance procedure if there is a case where it is
impossible to design a lighting system to provide the level of security that
a bank needs.
Anthes: Leif, I believe you referred to the item that you added in the purpose part
of this document as "reduce atmospheric light pollution". I would pose an
alternate to that to read something more like "to permit all forms of
necessary illumination at reasonable intensities but to prevent obtrusive
aspects such as glare, trespass, energy waste and sky glow." Whether or
not you use that exact wording, I believe that we need to say that the intent
of this is to contribute to a dark sky in our city and use some language that
is a little bit more clear and comprehensive. The other thing is that I too
am concerned about recreational facility lighting. I believe you've got in
here that you have an 11:00 p.m. cutoff time on recreational facilities
which a lot of people go to bed long before that and cannot enjoy their
view in their city. However, if the lighting on those fields was designed to
meet the intent of the ordinances and there is lighting that can do that.
There are soft lighting systems and other lighting systems that are full
cutoff and that can illuminate a field. I question whether or not we need a
cutoff time if the fixtures actually meet the ordinance or vice versa. I
wasn't involved with the committee but it looks like the subcommittee that
developed this ordinance met several times in 2001. Again, I reference the
International Dark Sky Association and some other sources that have done
a considerable amount of work on ordinances that we might want to take a
look at and a lot of that work has happened in 2002 and beyond. I just
wonder if this was great when we were looking at it three or four years
ago but that there might have been a lot of language that was tested in
communities since then that might be something that we should revisit
before adopting the language in this ordinance.
Olson: I have been to the dark sky website and they are actually in the process of
working up a model ordinance that could be modified for virtually any
community and adopted. The last time that I was on that website it wasn't
up yet. They mentioned that they were working on it and it will be up. I
think you are correct, between 2001 and now a lot of other communities
have adopted lighting ordinances in the last couple of years. Yes, we can
surely revisit what other cities have done and if there is some language or
some things that staff might feel is applicable for Fayetteville we would
certainly look into that.
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 36
Allen: No ordinance is perfect but I think this is certainly heading us the right
direction and I would like to move for approval of ADM 01-15.00
forwarding it with our stamp of approval to the City Council.
Ostner: I will second.
Hoover: Is there more discussion?
Anthes: I agree that this is a good start and I believe that this is something that our
city really needs and I'm very glad everybody has put in work. In the
form that it is in I don't believe that I would be able to vote for forwarding
it to the Council. I think it needs more work.
Vaught: I would agree. I would like to see the subject of street lighting, pedestrian
type lighting addressed a little better for areas such as Dickson Street
where we want character more than light pollution. Not necessarily light
pollution, but there are compromises. I guess maybe I just need a better
understanding of the options out there. Before I vote for this I would like
to see some more variations or some more opportunities. Maybe a
wattage limit on the watts in street lights or pedestrian type lamps instead
of saying they have to do the shoebox lighting. I'm picturing the shoebox
type lighting down Dickson. I'm an accountant so I don't have a great
imagination, but that is what I'm picturing and it worries me. I know there
are options.
Olson: There are some good fixtures out there now that are decorative and they
are full cutoff. It is just the bulb and everything is up in the inside of it.
We can look at that.
Anthes: I just wanted to add that I feel like if we forward it at this time we are
putting a lot of the onus of working through these details on the City
Council and that perhaps we need to go to them with something we can
endorse more whole heartedly.
Graves: I'm an attorney so I don't have a lot of imagination either, but I know that
you can make an ordinance too specific to the point where it is inflexible.
Some of the concerns that people have raised it seems like could be
addressed through the variance process as has been suggested. If you try
to micromanage it through the ordinance, that is some of the problems that
they are trying to avoid by amending it the way that they are.
Vaught: That is why I was asking about the variance process earlier. If those are
things that we, through this ordinance, have control over at the Planning
Commission can we, if a development comes through and they want to use
certain types of lighting, what kind of things can we approve a variance
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 37
for on this. I know in some situations we are limited on variances on what
we can approve and what we can't.
Conklin: This is something that as the Planning Commission does once or twice a
month, variances based on different circumstances and conditions of
development. I want to make sure that I'm clear. This ordinance has been
I would say significantly reduced in scope and what it covers and no
longer are we going to go out and measure lumens and have different
standards for different lights and it does not cover every situation. The
only thing that I'd like to add when we say we're going to work on this, if
you are talking about another subcommittee that is fine, just give staff
some direction. This is not the highest priority for staff right now with
implementation of our Transportation Plan and implementation of our
Downtown Master Plan over the next few months or this year is going to
be a high priority. I just want to share that with the Commission because
we will work it in when we can but it is probably not going to come back
to your next meeting. We can research and find out more when the model
ordinance is being developed and maybe that will be an opportunity to see
what that organization develops for municipalities.
Bunch: This particular concept of having a lighting ordinance has bounced around
for a considerable period of time and we have had record development in
the last couple of years and we are approaching record development in the
coming up year without the benefit of a lighting ordinance. We could
micro manage this thing forever and I'm usually one of the ones that says I
want to examine an ordinance more thoroughly and go through it. This
has been to the City Council and back to the Planning Commission and
back to the City Council any number of times. I think that even a
minimalist approach to get people started thinking along these lines is very
important. Particularly with the anticipated record growth as described by
Mayor Coody for the year 2004. For those reasons, even though this has
some severe limitations, I would recommend passing it and forwarding it
to the City Council because we need to get started sometime and we've
had record growth that has not been adequately addressed. I think that is
something that we have studied too long and not taken care of business.
Anthes: Thank you for bringing that up. I certainly would rather have this than
nothing. If that is our choice I might reverse my prior comments.
However, I do feel like this does need some more embellishing and
another look. If this is it or nothing that's what I didn't understand.
Hoover: I think this might be it for a particular amount of time.
Williams: I would certainly say that just because you would recommend that this be
passed by the City Council doesn't mean that the City Council or the
Planning Commission quits looking at ordinances. Ordinances get
Planning Commission
March 22, 2004
Page 38
amended all the time. I would concur. I was there in the original dark
days of 2001 when we first started struggling to get a lighting ordinance
done and I think that it would be beneficial to the city to get something
like this passed. Then if we see problems coming up that is a real good
time when the ordinance starts getting applied to say we need to do this or
we need to do that to fine tune the ordinance. I would recommend that
you go forward for all the reasons that have been stated by the Planning
Commissioners already. I think that it is time to get something in our
Code of Ordinances.
Hoover: Is there any other discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
ADM 01-15.00 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to zero.
Announcements
Hoover: We are adjourned.