HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-03-08 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held on Monday, March 8, 2004 at
5:30 p.m. in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain,
Fayetteville, Arkansas.
ITEMS CONSIDERED ACTION TAKEN
ANX 03-05.00: (Rankin/Rankin/Bowen, pp 400) Forwarded to City Council
Page 4
RZN 03-33.00: (Rankin/Rankin/Bowen, pp 400) Forwarded to City Council
Page 4
ANX 03-06.00: (Schlegel, pp 207/246) Forwarded to City Council
Page 8
RZN 03-34.00: (Schlegel, pp 207/246) Forwarded to City Council
Page 8
LSD 04-05.00: (Clary Development/Harps, pp 401) Approved
Page 15
CUP 04-08.00: (Logan's Roadhouse, pp 173) Approved
Page 26
LSD 04-08.00: (Logan's Roadhouse, pp 173) Approved
Page 26
CUP 04-10.00: (Westside Storage, pp 400) Denied/Amended/Approved
Page 29
CUP 04-09.00: (Travis Woods, pp 137/176) Approved
Page 55
RZN 04-03.00: (McCord/Fitzgerald, pp 398) Forwarded to City Council
Page 63
RZN 04-02.00: (Chance & Tuggle, pp 436) Forwarded to City Council
Page 65
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 2
MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT
James Graves
Alan Ostner
Don Bunch
Loren Shackelford (5:38 p.m.)
Jill Anthes
Alice Church
Sharon Hoover
Christian Vaught
Nancy Allen
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Dawn Warrick
Matt Casey
Suzanne Morgan
Jeremy Pate
Renee Thomas
Kit Williams
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 3
Hoover: Welcome to the Monday, March 8, 2004 meeting of the Fayetteville
Planning Commission. Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call there were eight Commissioners present
with Commissioner Shackelford arriving at 5:35 p.m.
Hoover: The next item of business is the election of officers for the 2004-2005
year. Renee will pass out the secret ballots?
Officer Election:
Upon the completion of the election procedure the following officers were
unanimously selected:
Chair: Alan Ostner
Vice -Chair: Loren Shackelford
Secretary: Nancy Allen
Hoover: The next item of business is approval of the minutes from the February
23rd meeting, do we have a motion?
Bunch: So moved.
Allen: Second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Bunch and a second by
Commissioner Allen. Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the minutes from
the February 23, 2004 meeting was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to zero.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 4
ANX 03-05.00: Annexation (Rankin/RankinBowen, pp 400) was submitted by James
McCord on behalf of Wilbur Maurice Rankin, Mary Ellen Rankin, Raymond Rankin and
Susan Bowen for property located on Rupple Road north of Wedington Drive. The
property is in the Planning Area and contains approximately 17.19 acres. The request is
to annex the property into the City of Fayetteville.
RZN 03-33.00: Rezoning (Rankin/RankinBowen, pp 400) was submitted by James
McCord on behalf of Wilbur Maurice Rankin, Mary Ellen Rankin, Raymond Rankin and
Susan Bowen for property located on Rupple Road north of Wedington Drive. The
request is to rezone the property RSF-4, Residential Single-family, 4 units per acre
Hoover: Item number one on the agenda is ANX 03-05.00 for property located on
Rupple Road half a mile north of Wedington Drive. Suzanne?
Morgan: The subject property is 17.19 acres. It is a vacant piece of land located
west of Rupple Road, a minor arterial, and north of Wedington Drive
which is a principal arterial. Single family residences are located at all
cardinal directions from this property with the city limits along the
western boundary of this tract of land where it abuts Willow Springs
subdivision. This subdivision is zoned RT -12 in the city. This Annexation
request was heard by the Planning Commission on November 24, 2003 at
which time it was tabled pending results from a Waste Water Capacity
Analysis. This report has been submitted and shows that there is adequate
capacity in the basins which will serve this area for existing and proposed
future development. That result has been attached with the staff report.
There is currently access to water lines on Rupple as well as Patrick Street
as well as two water mains. Staff finds that the Annexation will create a
peninsula, however, the property is located within an island of the county
property and the city has adopted policy for annexation which identifies
areas within current islands to be desirable for annexation. Additionally,
this annexation and all annexations, are automatically rezoned R -A,
Residential Agricultural and the applicant is requesting a rezone to RSF-4,
Residential Single Family, Four units per acre. This zoning designation is
compatible with the residential classification within the area on the city's
adopted Future Land Use Plan. Police reports that rezoning this property
to RSF-4 will not adversely affect the population density in a negative
manner. As such, staff is in support and recommends approval of the
requested Annexation and RZN 03-33.00 for Rankin, Rankin Bowen.
Hoover: We are going to look at the Annexation and Rezoning together?
Morgan: If that's ok with you.
Hoover: I just wanted to make sure. Would the applicant come forward?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page S
McCord: Yes, Madam Chair and members of the Commission, I'm Jim McCord
representing the applicants. The applicants respectfully appreciate the
staff's recommendation and request the Planning Commission to follow it.
I concur that it is an appropriate Annexation because it is within an island
and the annexation policies of the city do provide for annexation within an
island surrounded by corporate limits. The waste water capacity study did
indicate that there is sufficient capacity for future growth in this area and
as indicated in the staff report there is a traffic signal proposed for the
intersection of Rupple Road and Wedington Drive that has been proposed
by the city and approved by the Arkansas Hwy. Department, which is
presently in the process of being installed.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any member of the audience that would like to
address this ANX 03-05.00 or RZN 03-33.00 for this property? Yes Sir,
come to the podium please and give us your name.
Atwood: I'm Dr. Dan Atwood, I just want to make a comment for the Commission,
thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm a land owner that lives across
the road from this property and I have 20 acres with a home on that 20
acres and of course, Rupple Road, as you know, is a very narrow road at
the moment. My concern is that the density of housing that is requested is
going to put a big strain on that road as it is. With the other houses that
are along that road most are located on several acres and I think that
density, again, is a little high for fitting in with what we already have
existing along that road. My concern is with what it would do for the
property values for the others of us that live in that area. Those are my
comments. Does anyone have any questions for me regarding that
situation?
Hoover: No, we will go ahead and take more public comment. Is there any other
member of the public that would like to address this Annexation and
Rezoning? Staff, could you answer those questions about the road? I see
we have down here road improvements and density, both of those issues.
Warrick: Improvements to infrastructure are not addressed or placed on Annexation
and Rezoning requests. We do look at that at the time of development
proposals and we expect that in the future, probably the near future, we
will be looking at a request for a Preliminary Plat approval on this
property should it be annexed and zoned according to the applicant's
requests. We do have concerns with regard to Rupple Road. This section
of Rupple Road is in the county, it is not a city street and therefore, we
have little control over what happens to Rupple Road. Each piece of
property that we are able to annex into the city limits adjoining Rupple
Road will improve the prospect and our ability to make improvements to
that infrastructure. That's what we can do. If you will remember, we had
a similar situation on Starr Drive on the northeast side of town a couple of
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 6
years ago and it was difficult to determine what types of improvements in
what areas to apply when we were looking at a development proposal
along that street because it was not in the control of the city. In this
particular case this is a donut hold surrounded by corporate city limits. It
is targeted in the city's adopted annexation policy as an area that is
appropriate and prime for annexation because of these jurisdictional
issues. We have police cars, fire and ambulance emergency response
vehicles that travel this road everyday. We serve this area but we don't
have the ability to make a whole lot of change with regard to the
infrastructure unless it's within the city limits. This gets us one step closer
to being able to make significant improvements. Those improvements are
typically a requirement of development when it is proposed adjoining
those streets.
Hoover: Would you address the traffic signal?
Warrick: My understanding is that there is a traffic signal that is being installed at
the intersection of Rupple and Wedington.
Hoover: Also, the density and why staff thinks this is the right density for this area.
Warrick: Staff believes this is an appropriate density, four units per acre is the
standard zoning district for single family subdivisions. It is consistent
with the majority of developed property within the city limits in this area.
The property immediately adjoining it to the west is actually zoned for a
higher density so the resulting development, should this be rezoned to
RSF-4, would likely garner a lesser density than what is existing on the
ground to the west of the subject property.
Hoover: Thank you. Commissioners, are there any comments?
Anthes: Consistent with city policy to annex islands I would move to recommend
approval of ANX 03-05.00 and forward to the City Council.
Shackelford: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Anthes for the Annexation and a
second by Commissioner Shackelford, is there more discussion? Seeing
none, Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
ANX 03-05.00 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Hoover: Onto the Rezoning.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 7
Bunch: On the Rezoning and the traffic, it looks like Patrick Street is stubbed out
to be able to serve this area which would give an alternate traffic pattern to
Wedington Drive in addition to Rupple Road and also, I think there have
been or have been approved, may not be completed yet, some alterations
to Rupple Road at it's intersection with Mt. Comfort Road. I know it is
not infrastructure that we need at this point in time but they are steps in the
right direction. That being said, I will move for approval of RZN 03-
33.00 recommending to the City Council our positive response to it.
Shackelford: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Bunch and a second by
Commissioner Shackelford, is there more discussion on RZN 03-33.00?
Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend for approval to
the City Council RZN 03-33.00 was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 8
ANX 03-06.00: Annexation (Schlegel, pp 207/246) was submitted by Milholland
Company on behalf of Tracy Hoskins for property located north of the proposed Crystal
Springs Phase III subdivision, west of Deane Solomon Road. The property is in the
Planning Area and contains approximately 72.5 acres. The request is to annex the
property into the City of Fayetteville.
RZN 03-34.00: Rezoning (Schlegel, pp 207/246) was submitted by Milholland
Company on behalf of Tracy Hoskins for property located north of the proposed Crystal
Springs Phase III subdivision, west of Deane Solomon Road. The property is in the
Planning Area and contains approximately 72.5 acres. The request is to rezone the
property RSF-4, Residential Single-family, 4 units per acre.
Hoover: Item number three on the agenda is ANX 03-06.00 and RZN 03-34.00 for
Crystal Springs Phase III subdivision west of Deane Solomon Road.
Jeremy?
Pate: Thank you Madam Chair. The subject property is 73.50 acres of vacant
property located west of Deane Solomon Road south of Salem Road.
Salem Road to the north of this location is a gravel road and does not meet
city standards, nor does Deane Solomon. Single family residences are
located north of the subject property along Salem Road and areas to the
west and south are vacant, although, Crystal Springs Subdivision Phase
III, as you mentioned, is proposed south of the subject property. Gypsum
Drive, a collector street, is also shown on the Master Street Plan as an
east/west connection to the subject property. Any development to be
consistent with the Master Street Plan would most likely look at
developing that street as part of it's circulation patterns. A portion of
Gypsum Drive also was constructed with the Crystal Springs Phase I. As
with the last two items, an Annexation and Rezoning request was
previously petitioned and tabled in December, 2002. The two primary
concerns for this site included fire response times and the waste water
capacity study as mentioned. Again, the waste water capacity study has
identified this area as an area that does have sufficient capacity for
development. Additionally, fire station number seven which is a closer
fire station than the ones that currently exist to serve this site has been
approved and awaits construction plans. Staffs findings with regard to
water and sewer, extension of water and sewer mains will be required
although, they are available in the nearby vicinity. The proposed
annexation and potential rezoning could result in 290 single family units
as a maximum. Again, that has been identified as being within the
capacity of the lift stations based on the waste water capacity study. With
regard to the rezoning, this proposed rezoning is justified in order to
ensure orderly and consistent development patterns making use of existing
infrastructure. The rezoning is needed for the development of a single
family residential subdivision as proposed by the applicant. Projects
existing in this area already of course, do receive police services and the
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 9
rezoning will not substantially alter the population density. Again, I
mentioned the fire department findings as well. Surrounding properties
are similarly developed and zoned appropriately for this request and staff
is recommending approval of both requested ANX 03-06.00 and RZN 03-
34.00.
Hoover: Thank you. Would the applicant come forward?
Jefcoat: I'm Tom Jefcoat with Milholland Company.
Hoover: Do you have anything to add?
Jefcoat: We appreciate your consideration of this Annexation and Rezoning. We
are aware of the street conditions, the infrastructure, water and sewer and
those issues will be addressed during the planning and design development
stage. Thank you.
Hoover: At this time we will open up this Annexation and Rezoning to public
comment. This is for the Crystal Springs Phase III subdivision. ANX 03-
06.00 and RZN 03-34.00. Is there any member of the public that would
like to address these? Seeing none, I will bring it back to the Commission.
Bunch: I have a question for the applicant. I know this is a little premature
because the Preliminary Plat is not before us but one of the concerns in
this area has been traffic and access. What provisions do you think will be
made on securing the right of way to extend Gypsum to Deane Solomon
Road? Have you looked at that yet?
Jefcoat: Yes we have. We are aware that that road will be improved to the city
limits. Excuse me, I was thinking about Salem Road. Gypsum Road we
did not know what would occur to the west of us, nor to the east of us but
during the design development we will provide connectivity to the east
and west.
Bunch: Then also go ahead and tell us about Salem Road.
Jefcoat: We understand that staff is recommending that that be improved to the city
limits from wherever we have access on Salem Road to the city limits.
Bunch: Where is the city limits, is that at Deane Solomon?
Jefcoat Yes it is.
Bunch: You are aware that that would be part of the development process would
be to extend Salem Road to city standards to Deane Solomon?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 10
Jefcoat: Yes, that's what is in the recommendation, yes.
Bunch: A question for staff I guess. On Gypsum Road our packet does not show
ownership of Gypsum. What process would there be as this comes
forward for development to provide a second access on Gypsum that
would be south of the "S" curve on Deane Solomon that would help avoid,
from a traffic standpoint, avoid that bad spot on Deane Solomon.
Warrick: That is part of the springwoods project. That is one of the lots within the
springwoods PZD east of this tract between this tract and Deane Solomon
Road. We expect that property to come through the development process
relatively soon as we have had the Final Plat for that subdivision
submitted to our office this last week. With regard to when this comes
through the development process, the subject property, we will be of
course, looking for connectivity which is a policy of the city to require
developments to have stub outs and/or to connect to existing stub outs.
We will have to wait until we see what is on the ground existing compared
to what the proposal is and how we can ensure that those existing stub outs
match up to any new infrastructure and that if they don't if there is nothing
to match up that new stub outs are in the proper location so that streets can
be connected affectively.
Allen: I noticed that there were a number of letters in our packet from neighbors
that are concerned, I wondered whether or not you have met with those
neighbors and felt that problems had been resolved in some manner.
Jefcoat: Resolved in some manner, yes. I would say in some manner. We have
talked with the adjoining neighbors over the past two and a half years in
the process of developing this and we have some rapore with those people.
When we do a development plan and begin to have a conceptual plan then
the more detailed meeting process will occur with those residences.
Allen: Have you met with them since the last time this came before us?
Jefcoat: We have talked to some of them by phone, yes.
Allen: But not like a neighborhood association type meeting?
Jefcoat No, we don't have a plan concept with which to talk to them about yet as
far as layout. That's what they are most concerned about is how the
layout adjoins their property. When we get to that point we will have a
neighborhood association meeting.
Warrick: If I could just add, there are a few letters in this packet and we included
everything that we had with regard to this property. The original request
for this project came in November or December of 2002. At that time the
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page I1
request for rezoning was to a more dense zoning district with smaller lots.
The RSF-7 district now. Some of these comments are reflective of that as
the proposal. The proposal now is for an RSF-4, Single Family four units
per acre zoning district. While the substance hasn't really changed, it is a
request to annex and zone. The density has changed that this applicant is
requesting.
Allen: Thank you.
Shackelford: We looked at this previously if my memory is correct. The main two
concerns we had at that point was based on fire coverage and sewer
capacity, it seems like at this point those issues have been addressed. I
think staff has done a good job on recommending approval of this project
so based on this I am going to recommend we approve ANX 03-6.00 as
presented.
Vaught: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Shackelford and a second by
Commissioner Vaught, is there any other discussion?
Ostner: This is just a question for staff. I understand that the improvements to
Deane Solomon aren't really relative at this point because it is just an
annexation and rezoning. When it does come time to develop I'm noticing
that this property does not adjoin Deane Solomon. Are we still talking
about requesting the developer help improve Deane Solomon?
Warrick: Offsite improvements are at the discretion of the Planning Commission.
We do not have a development plan to assess in order to determine
whether or not there is a demand placed by that development that would
cause a need for improvements on Deane Solomon. We are working with
a different developer right now on the "S" curve in Deane Solomon and
trying to establish a reasonable way of straightening that out some. We
are progressing in making improvements on Deane Solomon and
additional development is most likely going to be occurring in that general
area in the near future so we will have to take it as it comes and determine
those types of assessments or improvements based on the development
plans when they are submitted.
Ostner: Thank you.
Hoover: Is there any other discussion? Renee, would you call the roll on the
annexation?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ANX 03-06.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 12
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Hoover: The rezoning of this?
Shackelford: Based on the comments that I made earlier and the findings and the fact
that I think this is consistent with surrounding use I will go ahead and
make a motion that we recommend approval to the City Council of RZN
03-34.00.
Vaught: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Shackelford and a second by
Commissioner Vaught for the rezoning, is there any discussion?
Anthes: I'm a little torn on this one. From what I'm reading here there seems to be
quite an amount of wetlands in this area, is that true staff?
Warrick: We've not seen a development proposal, I believe that there is potential
for some but we've not gotten to that point yet for analysis of that.
Anthes: Looking here where it adjoins the more dense zoning districts along the
eastern boundary but as it goes north and west, I'm kind of surprised we
haven't heard from more residents based on the numbers of letters that
were in our packet. That is a beautiful open valley with a certain character
to it. I'm just questioning if the density of RSF-4 might be a little high in
that area based on what I think might be wetlands and geology and the
view shed and then the surrounding property owner's letters.
Hoover: Staff, you might repeat why you thought the RSF-4 was appropriate
perhaps.
Warrick: Based on the General Plan which calls this area out to be residential we
felt that the RSF-4 district was appropriate with regard to the existing
surrounding developments and the proposed developments to the south
and to the east.
Anthes: It just seems like RSF-4 seems to be our default position on single family
but we do have other district designations, an RSF .5, an RSF-1, an RSF-2
zonings available to us. The site, because it's got this differentiation where
it adjoins a more dense zoning and then drops way in that valley, to me it
is difficult to look at it as one piece because it might develop in such a
way that development might be clustered more towards the front than
another piece of property but without seeing that, it is hard for me to get
behind a basic overall density of RSF-4 on that site.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 13
Shackelford: This is presented as Phase III of an existing subdivision, Phase I and Phase
II, are they RSF-4 as well?
Warrick: This is not Phase III of Crystal Springs. This is north of the proposed
Crystal Springs Phase III. Phase III is zoned RSF-4, it is located
immediately south of this and it has already been through the Preliminary
Plat process. The Planning Commission has already approved the layout.
Shackelford: The property just south of this proposal will be RSF-4 as well?
Warrick: That's correct.
Thomas: If I could just add, I spoke with Mary Bassett earlier and she asked me to
write you a letter but I didn't get to that. She is asking for larger lots as it
goes up the hill and she will be here at the time of Preliminary Plat to talk
to you about that.
Hoover: Thank you.
Vaught: I think she's the one in her letter that said they were against seven but they
would be in support of four. I saw that in at least one or maybe two of the
letters. I do think RSF-4 is a good fit for this area. It is still very close to
I-540, it is an area that is rapidly developing and changing with a lot of
RSF-4 around it. We have a lot of things coming before us in this area
and a lot of them are RSF-4. Between that and it is a buffer I think
between those larger homes to the west and things like Wilson springs
where you even have a strip of RMF -24 abutting the property. I do think
it is a good density. Just because it is zoned that doesn't necessarily mean
they are going to do that. Like was said, Mary Bassett wished they would
get larger as they would go up the hill. I believe she was here at the last
meeting and said that exact same thing. I know the developer will have
lots of comments with the neighbors through the development process.
Bunch: A question for staff and possibly the applicant, the property immediately
to the south zoned RSF-4 is part of Crystal Springs Phase III?
Warrick: Yes.
Bunch: That is a piece of property that I know we have had a Preliminary Plat
come through on that and there will be access to Deane Solomon on that
but I cannot remember if there was access to the north. I think the same
applicant had the same project, Tom, can you shed a little light on that?
Jefcoat: Yes we do have the same project and we do have a stub from Crystal
Springs north into this property. I also may mention that yes, to our east
there is RSF-4 zoning where we are talking about connectivity also, which
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 14
is Gypsum. It is our proposal and we have had communication with Mary
Bassett and we talked earlier today also.
Bunch: We are looking at two potential connections to the east, one on Gypsum
Drive and the other one on the extension of Crystal Springs?
Jefcoat: At least one through to the south on Crystal Springs. One to the north on
Salem and at least one both directions east and west.
Bunch: With the Master Street Plan there is Gypsum Drive so that would give a
minimum of three accesses east?
Jefcoat: A minimum of four, minimum.
Vaught: Gypsum Drive to the east of Deane Solomon has been vacated with the
Wilson Springs PZD correct?
Warrick: Yes. It has been removed from the Master Street Plan as a collector. It
doesn't mean that there couldn't still be some connectivity there. It is no
longer classified as a collector street.
Hoover: Is there any other discussion? I believe we had a motion and a second.
Renee, would you call the roll?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 03-34.00 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 8-1-0 with
Commissioner Anthes voting no.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to one.
Hoover: Thank you.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 15
LSD 04-05.00: Large Scale Development (Clary Development/Harps, pp 401) was
submitted by Brian Moore of Engineering Services, Inc. on behalf of Clary Development
Corporation for property located at Lot 8 of Wedington Place Addition. The property is
zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial, and contains approximately 4.61 acres. The
request is to approve the development of a 31,118 sq.ft. commercial building with 163
parking spaces proposed.
Hoover: Item number five on the agenda is a Large Scale Development.
Vaught: I am going to recuse from this item.
Graves: I also have to recuse.
Hoover: Thank you. This is LSD 04-05.00, Suzanne?
Morgan: This development application was submitted by Brian Moore on behalf of
Clary Development Corporation for Property Located on Lot 8 of
Wedington Place Subdivision Phase IL The applicant is proposing to
construct a 31,118 sq.ft. Harps grocery store on Lot 8 located north of
Wedington Drive and east of Colorado Drive. The property is currently
vacant and there are no existing trees on the property. It is zoned C-2,
Thoroughfare Commercial and currently the applicant has submitted a
request to the Board of Adjustment for a zero rear lot line, a Variance of
20' in order for future development to occur on the lot to the east. The
applicant will be requesting a Vacation for existing easements on the
property which were platted with the Final Plat of this subdivision.
Surrounding land use includes Sonic to the south as well as some vacant
property to the north zoned RMF -24 and to the east and west, the east is
vacant with the Arvest Bank and single family as well as duplexes to the
west. Adequate right of way currently exists. The Design Overlay
boundary does not encompass any portion of Lot 8 however, it does
overlay a portion of the subdivision and when the Final Plat was filed it
did state that any signage for all lots shall conform to the Design Overlay
District standards for a monument sign. At this time no freestanding
signage has been proposed. A waiver has been submitted for the tree
preservation plan and approved. Staff is recommending approval of LSD
04-5.00 with 24 conditions. Of which, Planning Commission
determination and approval of Commercial Design Standards. The
applicant has proposed an alternate eastern elevation should an adjacent
structure not be installed within the parameters of condition two, which
reads "If at the time of building permit approval the property to the east
has not submitted a complete Large Scale Development application
showing an adjoining structure to Harps the developer of Lot 8 shall
construct an eastern fagade that complies with Commercial Design
Standards." Staff has received signed conditions of approval.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 16
Hoover: Thank you. Would the applicant come forward and I guess would you
explain the materials while you're up here.
Moore: I'm Brian Moore with Engineering Services and I've got with me Jay Max
Vanhoose from Harp's Foods as well as Jeff Maxwell of Clary
Development. I think Jay Max will come up and show you the materials
board if that's the desire.
Vanhoose: Thanks Commissioners. The board indicates that there is about three
primary materials. It is skirted and has some columns of the brick material
that you see there. There are to E.LF.S. materials. E.I.F.S. number one on
the board is the primary store front material that is the whiter of the colors.
E.I.F.S. number two is primarily on the sidewalls. The texture on the
sample there is probably not completely indicative, it is a little more
textured than that. The facility is trimmed with some metal roofing
material, it is a hunter green material and then the storefront has some
typical bronze doorways and aluminum framing. I'm not sure if that
answers your questions.
Hoover: Thank you. Now we will open this Large Scale Development up to public
comment. Is there anyone who would like to address this Harps on Lot 8
of Wedington Place Addition? Seeing none, I will bring it back to the
Commission and the applicant. I have a question for staff. What is our
requirement for landscaped area between the street and the parking lot?
Warrick: There is a 15' landscape strip required there with trees, one every 30 linear
feet.
Hoover: Is there an area on here that gets smaller than 15'?
Warrick: It looks like there is an area to the immediate west of the structure that is
reduced slightly. Our Landscape Administrator has reviewed that and is
comfortable with that proposal. It looks like in that area they have also
increased the landscaping to include a continuous row of shrubs as
opposed to just the one tree every 30 linear feet.
Hoover: Can we get a report from Subdivision? I'm curious if concerns have been
met.
Anthes: There were several items that were brought up at Subdivision, items that
needed to be marked on the plans such as the Vacation of the utility
easement, the grading at the new building, some drainage issues and the
addition of a monument sign that may or may not be built on this piece of
property. The applicant has addressed all of those. In addition, they have
labeled the materials on their elevations and provided an alternate east
elevation at Subdivision's request. The one thing that I don't know if it
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 17
has been resolved is the number of signs with the pharmacy and the gas
station.
Warrick: The applicant has spoken with us about that and is in agreement to
continue working with staff to ensure that the number of signs is
appropriate. These new elevations were presented this evening, we may
still need to do some counting and ensure that we're still at the right
number but I feel sure that we will be able to do that.
Allen: At the Subdivision meeting we did discuss the Commercial Design
Standards at some length and I wondered if there had been any other
modifications made to the design other than the ones to the east. I'm
unable to ascertain any differences.
Vanhoose: I think if I remember right, correct me if I'm wrong. There were concerns
on the Commercial Design Standards on the east elevation and we have
essentially emulated the east and west elevations to match what is also
seen on the south as an alternate and then the other concern was on the
proposed south elevation, which was the rear of the store, and we brought
that same theme around the back. I don't have a sample of the split faced
block material that would encompass the area around the trash compactor
but we brought the brick around as well.
Anthes: We also had a question about a concrete pad for the loading area by the
compactor, I believe that has been added as well, is that correct?
Vanhoose: Correct.
Ostner: I'm trying to ascertain whether that is the elevation of a gas station? It is
basically just canopy and poles?
Vanhoose: I think we show the second drawing down on the right hand side of the
sheet is the gas station and then we also in your packet provide an east
elevation with the gas station on it as well. It is not on this drawing, it was
added to your individual packets. This is the store that this proposal
emulates in Springdale and you can see in one of the photos on your blue
sheet that you can see the gas station that will be there.
Allen: I just wanted some help from my fellow Commissioners as to how one
would not see this as a large, boxlike, unarticulated structure?
Vanhoose: On which elevation?
Allen: Well, all of them except the south.
Hoover: Who is willing to take on that challenge?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 18
Bunch: From what we saw at Subdivision it has some banding on it.
Ostner: I think I would have to agree, at least with the north elevation. It is pretty
unarticulated. I was looking at the site plan and I was considering that
there is a C-2 zoning to the north so another commercial development
would be, maybe someday on that lot.
Hoover: Is that in reference to thinking you're not going to be able to see the north?
There will be a detention pond. I believe you will be able to see at least a
fourth of that pretty easily from the road. Commissioner Allen, did
anyone answer that question?
Allen: No.
Hoover: Maybe the applicant should respond to that.
Vanhoose: The question is?
Allen: The question was one of our findings is for the Commercial Design
Standards that this not be a large, boxlike, unarticulated structure and I'm
having trouble not receiving it as that.
Vanhoose: I think that has always been a challenge. I've been challenged with that
too to try to satisfy everybody's desires that it be a nice facility and I
assume you are just not wanting a blank, unarticulated wall. There are
some things back there you can't really see on the elevation in terms of
just the structure changes depth, it is a loading dock area and receiving
area. We have tried to spruce it up a little bit with some different
materials and colors and there is an awning over the back door. I think we
are trying to do the best we can in terms of trying to please people. I went
and drove around town and just tried to look at some new stores and try to
see what the themes were. I guess we are still open to suggestions but
we've tried to work in that direction of satisfying that Commercial Design
Standard.
Ostner: The south elevation is great. I think we could agree on that. I'm just
wishing the west looked as nice because it faces a street with a lot of
residential traffic getting into the subdivision. The west elevation is really
built like a side that wouldn't really be seen. In a lot of ways this is a
corner site because the view from Wedington is important and that is your
big marketing tool. The view from Colorado is also important. I would
tend to agree with Commissioner Allen.
Shackelford: I'm not struggling as bad on Commercial Design Standards. I think that
you talk about unarticulated walls, I don't see this as an unarticulated wall.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 19
I think the brick veneer and the brick columns are going to make a nice
break up of that wall changing colors and changing height will help as
well. One thing on the west elevation, and it is kind of hard and we
struggle with this looking at two dimensional pictures and trying to think
about what it is going to look like in three dimensional reality. That gas
station will add some depth. There is going to be an additional building
that is going to block part of that and break up that fapade because there is
going to be the roofline there and there will be cars and activity in front of
that or on the side of that building too. The east elevation, as it was
originally drawn, I can understand the concerns about Commercial Design
Standards. I think we've come a long ways as far as the amount of work
that we've put into trying to dress this building up. It is a very big
building. The fact that it is facilitates some of those problems but we've
addressed this in the past with the brick veneer and the brick columns and
changing the colors and that sort of thing. Other than the east elevation as
it was originally drawn, I'm not struggling as bad with Commercial
Design Standards.
Vanhoose: Just to follow up on that just a little bit, I know you don't really use it in
your evaluation. There will be some landscaping on that wall and the
elevation I think is broken up a little bit with the gas station there and
those are just a couple of the thoughts that I would add to that.
Hoover: Can I ask one question too? On this north elevation which looks like there
is not a parapet on the north elevation, I'm assuming we are going to see
all that mechanical equipment on the roof? Where is the mechanical
equipment going, is it hidden?
Vanhoose: Actually, we discussed that at Subdivision briefly. I think I mentioned to
Dawn that on that probably in this area right here there would be some
rooftop condensers that would have to be shielded and probably matched
with the metal roof material, the hunter green material. I apologize for not
showing that on the elevation. We are aware that the rooftop materials
don't need to be seen and will be shielded.
Anthes: Jay, while you're here, at Subdivision we asked if you would take the
same treatment you have on the south and west and wrap the building and
I see that you have introduced the brick veneer pilasters in but have
stopped short of extending the banding around the building. Would you
be willing to do that?
Vanhoose: Yes Commissioner Anthes. Actually, that wasn't a conscious decision not
to do that. Actually, as I'm looking at it I should've recognized it before it
was submitted. That was a direction I had given to the individual putting
the drawing together and wasn't adhered to in terms of the brick skirt on
the south elevation is that what you're talking about?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 20
Anthes: The brick skirt and then also the banding of the different colors of E.LF.S.
as they move around.
Vanhoose: The banding is not an issue either. We could easily wrap that around the
south elevation.
Anthes: What I am hearing is that we can imagine on the north elevation the brick
skirt, the banding and then shielding to match the roof material around the
mechanical units that would be on the roof.
Vanhoose: That is correct.
Hoover: Commissioner Allen, does that help you on the north elevation?
Allen: I think that would help.
Bunch: A question for staff, what classification is Colorado Drive?
Warrick: Colorado Drive is a local street.
Hoover: Can I ask the applicant, this whole area next to the gas station, the
greenspace is reduced to 10' instead of 15' and staff said that you were
doing extra landscaping and I'm trying to see the landscaping along that
strip doesn't look any different than the area that has more greenspace.
Maybe I'm not reading these correctly.
Warrick: The reason that that appears to be extra is that the shrubs are not required
where there is not parking adjacent to the right of way.
Hoover: So you are saying the shrubs would be extra?
Warrick: Right. Where there is parking, which is most of the rest of that property
line, that continuous row of shrubs is an ordinance requirement where
there is not parking which is similar to the location that we're looking at.
The shrubs are not an ordinance requirement but the applicant has chosen
to show them.
Hoover: I guess would you explain what they are though? Would you tell me what
the landscaping is along there?
Moore: To be honest with you, I'm really not sure. We turned in a landscaping
plan that Craig looked at. I actually didn't do it, somebody else in my
office did so I'm not really sure what those type of plants are.
Hoover: Do you know if there are any trees along this area right here?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 21
Moore: I think there is still the requirement of one tree per every 30'.
Hoover: But not any additional trees?
Moore: We could I'm sure throw in a couple of additional trees to make it one per
25' or one per 20', I don't think that would be a big issue.
Anthes: Is there a real need to reduce this to 10' here or can we meet the regulation
by increasing that to 15'?
Vanhoose: We were just looking at it real quickly. It appears that there is some room
there for some flexibility, we may have to soften that entry curb. We just
want to make sure that traffic can access the pumps there. There is
apparently between the fascia of the canopy to the curb line now, almost
40'. I think that we can take space out of the 40'. I'm not sure the
requirement, is it 10'?
Warrick: You need 15' so you are shy 5' at the north and just under 5' at the south
of that area.
Vanhoose: I don't see that as a problem right now.
Hoover: Did we finish on Commercial Design guidelines?
Allen: I think I would like to say that I appreciate that we are getting there and
some concessions and some changes are being made but in the long run as
a Planning Commissioner I think I need to know a little bit about how
many boxes or bricks or striped bands we need in order to make a box not
a box.
Hoover: Who are you directing that question to?
Allen: Anyone who will answer it. I really struggle with that repeatedly. It
comes up very frequently.
Ostner: I don't know if this is helpful but I'm looking at these photos here and this
middle one with the gas station I'm trying to picture it like the bottom
because the bottom has the brick wainscote and the pilaster columns. I'm
trying to picture that behind the gas station, which is basically what our
west elevation is going to look like. I know this is not accustomed of
commercial projects but like Commissioner Allen, I in my mind, keep
trying to add stuff to break the box. There is only so much you can add. I
just wondered if the sidewalk that abuts the building could be pulled away
3' or 4' and a landscape strip right up against the building. That would
mitigate this wall terrifically. I know commercial buildings don't
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 22
generally do that but I think the west elevation is still severely lacking. I
don't think it really passes Commercial Design Standards. I don't think
adding a gas station in front of it helps at all, I think it hurts it. I'm not
necessarily requesting that, I'm just trying to follow the discussion with an
idea.
Hoover: I will make a comment. In the past, perhaps what Commissioner Allen is
thinking of, when we have buildings that have many fronts to them as this
one does that we ask that all the fronts look similar. On this one the south
elevation has a lot of canopy, roof canopy and obviously, I would think if
the west elevation had a lot of roof canopy that would right there do it
because then we would look just like the very front door.
Allen: I think that is an excellent idea and that would certainly eliminate the look
of a box.
Hoover: Is the applicant willing to add anymore canopy?
Vanhoose: What was the specific question? I was addressing Commissioner Ostner's
question on the landscaping a little bit. What was your question?
Hoover: The next option that was thrown out was in the past when we have a
building that has as many fronts as this has, I would consider this having
two distinct fronts to it since this one, which you want to call the side, is
actually facing a street. We usually call that a front also. We usually ask
the applicant that anything that faces a street look like a front and so the
idea was if you continued the canopy that is on the south elevation all the
way along the west elevation just like you've done on the south that that
would make it seem much more articulated and less boxlike to some of the
Commissioners.
Vanhoose: I guess I would feel uncomfortable in this environment committing to that
amount of structural change. I know in past projects that we have done
that canopy is not the cheapest part of the project and whether that would
continue to make the project economically feasible for us I would be
unable to commit tonight.
Shackelford: I struggle when we get into these situations. I don't think it is the position
of the Planning Commission to re-engineer a proposal that is brought to
us. I think our challenge is to see if it meets the ordinances set forth by the
city. I have two things. First of all, I keep going back to articulated verses
unarticulated. I think they have done a very good job with articulation on
this property by changing different colors, different contrasts to do what
they can to do that. We have a challenge anytime you are going to build
however many thousand square feet of warehouse type retail space. You
are going to start with a boxlike structure and have to try to dress it out to
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 23
meet the ordinances. I think that they've done a good job and that this, as
proposed, meets our ordinances. The other thing, my thought was we're
talking about fronts and I know we got into that on the CMN project a
little bit. I look at this a little bit differently. We had buildings there
facing collector streets and major arterials. This front is more toward a
local street. I know a street is a street and vision is vision but it is not, in
my opinion, the same level of a front as it would be if it was facing I-540
or one of the major thoroughfares through CMN Business Park. I don't
really want to sit here and try to redesign this project. I don't know that
that is really our challenge as a Planning Commission. I think we need to
focus more on whether or not as presented it meets the ordinances as they
are on the books now.
Warrick: If I might, there has been some discussion with regard to the front south
verses the west which is facing a street. In your Design Overlay District
ordinance there is a requirement that any fagade facing a street is treated
as a front. This property is not within the Design Overlay District.
Therefore, Commercial Design Standards with the five elements to reduce
or minimize are the five elements to apply with regard to evaluation of this
project. In looking at that, it is not just one thing. It is five elements to
avoid or minimize is the way that the ordinance states. Unpainted
concrete precision block walls; Square "boxlike" structures; Metal Siding
which dominates the main fagade; Large, blank, unarticulated wall
surfaces; Large out of scale signs with flashy colors. Those are your five
criteria under Commercial Design Standards with which to evaluate one of
these Commercial projects. I just thought I would mention that there is a
difference between standard Commercial Design Standards anywhere
within the city limits and those standards that are applied to the Design
Overlay District when a project is on a corner condition.
Shackelford: I guess I would like to follow that up with another statement. As I look at
the Harps location in Fayetteville, the others in our region as I drive by
these I don't look at those buildings and think that they are large, boxlike
structures. I think again, that they have done very well in changing colors
and contrasts that they need to to break up that fagade.
Hoover: Are there other comments?
Shackelford: If we're done with that, if we're not done with it we can go back to it. I do
have a question on one other condition. Condition number six a Variance
for a rear lot line setback of zero. When you are saying rear lot line I'm
confused now we're talking about fronts.
Warrick: The east is the rear and the reason is when we look at the property on the
ground the front is what we have to consider for setbacks, anything that
faces or is adjacent to a street right of way. The west is the front with
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 24
setback considerations, the east is the rear, north and south are sides. The
applicant in this case has chosen to orient the building south so that itis
consistent with the rest of the development, the rest of the subdivision but
when it comes to determining setbacks a front is the setback that is taken
from a property line adjoining a street right of way.
Ostner: That confuses me terrifically. We are counting, is it Colorado Place as
their frontage and they setback their front setback against Colorado Drive
and their rear setback is on the east side. They have chosen to direct their
building to the south but our rules or our methodology is still calling the
west a front?
Warrick: Commercial Design Standards address the main fagade of a structure in
the ordinance. They require a submittal of an elevation of the main fagade
be submitted. The applicant has chosen the south to be the main fagade.
Hoover: Suggestions?
Ostner: I think at the very least the west elevation is lacking. There are so many
things about this project that I like. I think it is a good project, it is in the
right place, we need a grocery store there. I just wish the elevations
looked a little different. That's the only thing holding me up basically
from voting yes on this.
Bunch: While we're at a bit of impasse on the western side I think a motion and a
proper vote will clarify that. We have not really discussed the east
elevation and we're showing one east elevation as a large, blank,
unarticulated wall because this is where the proposed development to the
east will connect. We have no idea how much of the building will be
covered up by that east connection. We have been offered an alternative
eastern elevation should the development to the east not come through at
the time building permits are issued. One addition that I would like to
have considered on that and ask the applicant is if that building to the east
does not totally cover the east wall that the banding shown on the alternate
east elevation be wrapped onto that east elevation. Say the building to the
east only covers 50% of that wall then we do have blank, unarticulated
surfaces sticking out and my question is can we include in the proposal
that if the building to the east does not fully cover the east elevation that
that design element be wrapped to meet the proposed building to the east?
Vanhoose: I think we understand the spirit of number two and the conditions to
address as the adjoining structure that there needs to be some sort of
process in place for the adjoining structure that just because there is an
adjoining structure that is 10' wide or 100' wide doesn't prevail that all of
the sudden there is a large wall that is unarticulated and that the spirit of
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 25
the second option would be taken to any wall structure that's exposed for
the retail part that attaches to it.
Bunch: I would like to at this time commend the staff and the applicant for
working together on having this flexibility of allowing the proposal for the
east to come in and having options approved so that at the time the
building permit comes in I think that is one of the things that would make
Fayetteville a little more developer friendly. Sometimes we get caught up
on the rigidity of our ordinances and I think this is a good way of being
user friendly and it is a good concept and I would like to commend staff
for bringing it forward.
Allen: I think this is really a good and needed project. I still am struggling with
this Commercial Design thing and I wondered if other Commissioners
could weigh in and help me on that and if not, maybe we could even
consider that as an item that we put on a workshop agenda for the
Planning Commission in the future. This continues to be problematic and
really difficult to ascertain whether something complies and we don't want
to be the designers and yet we want to follow the rules.
Bunch: I will try to make a motion. I move that we approve LSD 04-05.00
subject to the conditions of approval as stated with the additional
conditions that the mechanical equipment shall be shielded with an
additional fagade on the roofline on the north, extend the banding as
represented on the west elevation around the north fagade and modifying
the landscaping on the west along Colorado Place as described. Also, to
offer on the spirit of the banding on the east elevation should the proposal
to the east not cover the entire east wall.
Shackelford: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Bunch and a second by
Commissioner Shackelford, is there more discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 04-05.00 was
approved by a vote of 4-3-2 with Commissioner Ostner, Hoover and
Anthes voting no and Commissioners Graves and Vaught recusing.
Allen: Before we totally leave the subject I do want on record that we pursue this
as a Commission to get clarification.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 26
CUP 04-08.00: Conditional Use (Logan's Roadhouse, pp 173) was submitted by
Tennessee Design and Engineering, PC on behalf of Logan's Roadhouse Restaurant for
property located at Lot 16 of Steele Crossing. The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare
Commercial, and is in the Design Overlay District. The request is to allow more parking
spaces than allowed by ordinance.
LSD 04-08.00: Large Scale Development (Logan's Roadhouse, pp 173) was submitted
by Tennessee Design and Engineering on behalf of Logan's Roadhouse for property
located in Lot 16 of CMN Business Park II. The property is zoned C-2, Commercial
Thoroughfare, located in the Design Overlay District, and contains 2.43 acres. The
request is to approve the development of an 8,060 sq. ft. restaurant with 144 parking
spaces proposed.
Hoover: Item number six on the agenda is a CUP 04-08.00 for Logan's Roadhouse.
I am assuming we are also going to hear LSD 04-08.00 for Logan's
Roadhouse at the same time. Jeremy?
Pate: Thank you Madam Chair. These two items are for a Conditional Use and
a Large Scale Development for Logan's Roadhouse. The request is for a
restaurant, 8,060 sq.ft. Elevations have been submitted for all four sides
of the structure as has a material sample board which is going around. The
property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and is within the Design
Overlay District. The subject Lot Split has been processed on Lot 16 to
create the subject tract within the Steele Crossing CMN Business Park II
subdivision. The property has frontage onto both Shiloh and Mall
Avenue. The Conditional Use request is for excess parking than allowed
by ordinance. On page 6.2 I have included a parking chart comparison
and included other restaurants that have been approved by the Planning
Commission with a Conditional Use request along with a percentage of
overage allotted. Logan's Roadhouse is requesting 144 parking spaces.
106 are allowed by ordinance. Therefore, there is a 36% overage
requested. That is in keeping with many of the Planning Commission
approved Conditional Use requests for parking spaces. I have signed
conditions on both the Conditional Use and the Large Scale Development.
All items for the Design Overlay District requirements have been met and
staff is recommending approval of both CUP 04-08.00 and LSD 04-08.00.
The latter of which has ten conditions.
Hoover: Would the applicant come forward?
Holcomb: Good evening. I am Roberta Holcomb with Logan's, I will be the
construction project manager on this job site. I would like to thank the
staff and Commission for the time and effort they have put in on this
project and we look forward to becoming a part of the community as soon
as possible. Thank you.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 27
Hoover: Is there any member of the audience that would like to address this
Conditional Use or Large Scale Development for Logan's Roadhouse?
Seeing none, I will bring it back to the Commission. I guess if we could
start with the Conditional Use. In the past we have had these parking
Conditional Uses on restaurants. Is there anyone that would not be in
favor of granting this Conditional Use? I think we should discuss it now.
Is there anyone that would like to speak to that?
Ostner: No Madam Chair, I do not have a problem. We give 30% overage and
they are only requesting 36% overage, that is very acceptable to me.
Bunch: That is 36% over the overage allowed.
Ostner: Merely doubling the overage is acceptable instead of tripling the overage.
Hoover: If it is not objectionable could we move on to the discussion about the
Large Scale Development? May I start by saying I can't figure out which
is the front to this building so obviously, I will be in favor of this Large
Scale Development based on Commercial Design guidelines. I have no
issues. Are there other comments?
Anthes: When Ms. Holcomb presented this at Subdivision it was received very
favorably. We had one major issue that was with the access drive and we
discussed it and she has changed the drawing so that it now aligns with the
access to the Olive Garden restaurant to allow for clarity of traffic
movement. That is viewed as a positive change. We asked for the table
regarding parking. They have added the condition about the
environmental specialist that Matt Casey requested and complied with the
other drawing and labeling requests that we had so I don't think there were
any other outstanding problems that we saw at Subdivision.
Hoover: Commissioner Allen?
MOTION:
Allen: I will move for approval of CUP 04-08.00.
Anthes: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Allen and a second by Commissioner
Anthes for the Conditional Use. Is there anymore discussion on the
Conditional Use? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-08.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 28
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
MOTION:
Anthes: I will move to approve LSD 04-08.00.
Allen: I will second.
Hoover: Is there more discussion? Seeing none, Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 04-08.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Bunch: Before we leave this subject I would like to comment again on the
quandary that you were having with not being able to determine which one
was the front. I think that we can possibly in the future use this as an
example of not having a minimalist attitude towards having facades look
like fronts. There are some other projects in this same area, some of
which have been rather minimalist, some of which have exceeded our
expectations and this is one that has exceeded and I think we can use it as
an example in the future and I would like to thank the applicant for
bringing this forward.
Allen: I too, would like to give kudos to the applicant.
Hoover: I think we all would. I guess she knows from the previous project.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 29
CUP 04-10.00: Conditional Use (Westside Storage, pp 400) was submitted by Dennis
Caudle for property located at 1192 N. Rupple Road. The property is zoned C-2,
Thoroughfare Commercial, and contains approximately 5.05 acres. The request is to
allow an additional climate controlled storage building.
Hoover: Item number eight on the agenda is a Conditional Use for Westside
Storage.
Pate: Thank you Madam Chair. Conditional Use request the applicant is
requesting on the subject 5.0 acre site which is located east of Rupple
Road north of Wedington an extension of the existing storage units. The
existing development includes the Westside Storage facility bordered on
the west and a portion of the south by an existing strip shopping center.
This is the location of the Perk and several different businesses in that
shopping center. This site has a lot of history so I am going to go through
it pretty quickly but just to give you a little background. On page 8.9 the
site is outlined there in sort of an "L" shape. The larger portion to the east
of Rupple, the larger C-2 portion is the existing storage units. That was
zoned in 1990 with the rest of the property . The C-2 portion is just to the
south of that and in 2001 was zoned C-2 for an additional storage unit as
well. That is what is being processed at this time. The remaining R -O
portion was not rezoned. It was originally requested to be rezoned to C-2
as well. It got to City Council and they recommended that it come back
with just the back portion. Both of these rezoning requests have Bills of
Assurance attached to them. I have kind of outlined some of those in your
packets some that deal with 60% tree canopy preservation requirement on
the site. Also, access is to be limited to Rupple Road and prohibited from
Wedington Drive for the mini storage operation. Additionally, the 2001
Bill of Assurance that zoned the smaller portion to C-2 limited that use to
a climate controlled storage facility and/or mini storage facility. Basically,
based on that Bill of Assurance that's really the only use that is allowed
from that Bill of Assurance in this location. It also, however, designated
appropriate screening to be determined by the Planning Commission at the
time of the Conditional Use request. That has been listed as one of the
conditions of approval. The applicant is proposing to construct a 160'x60'
climate controlled storage unit within the C-2 zoning district which does
require a Conditional Use approval. It will be subject to both of those
Bills of Assurance which are in perpetuity of the land. Staff is
recommending approval of the storage units with the Conditional Use for
those units. The proposed use for the mini storage facility is an extension
of the existing facility in the C-2 zoning district. Therefore, we find that it
will not adversely affect the public interest. As I mentioned, an
appropriate method of screening does need to be determined by the
Planning Commission tonight to affectively buffer the intended use from
surrounding properties. Adjacent properties include commercial uses on
the south and west sides with the exception of the vacant R -O property
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 30
directly south of the proposed storage unit. If you will look at your
conditions of approval, staff is recommending approval of the Conditional
Use with a number of conditions. Briefly, the proposed use shall be
limited to that portion of the C-2 tract only. It cannot be extended into that
R -O portion. Item number two, Planning Commission determination of
appropriate screening. Staff is recommending a combination of fencing,
native evergreen shrubs and trees based on recommendations from our
Landscape Administrator, to adequately screen the proposed building.
The screening shall be located directly south within 20' of the proposed
building as opposed to near the street which is where their current
proposal shows screening. We feel it is appropriate there based on a
number of reasons. One being that the 60% tree canopy that has to
remain. We don't have a tree preservation plan in front of us as of yet,
that will come with the building permit. Potentially a lot of the trees that
are to be preserved are on the R -O portion of the site which would then
render screening. There may never be a building there and staff is
recommending that screening be placed closer to the actual structure.
Additionally, I have listed some pages of minutes in the rezonings of
where the applicant offered to place that at least 20' from the structure.
Item three, Planning Commission determination of applicability of
Commercial Design Standards for this proposed mini storage building.
Typically we don't see this. This is usually regarded as an industrial use.
That's why it is a Conditional Use in the C-2 zoning district. However,
there was discussion both at Planning Commission and City Council level
with the rezoning request about Commercial Design Standards and we are
really putting it in the Commission's lap to determine if those design
standards do need to be applied to this unit. There have been some
elevations submitted. Hopefully they made it to your packet, it is sort of a
sketch and a photograph. On page 8.14 you can see an existing view with
the structures in the background and then sort of a drawing on the bottom
there of the view of the new building without the screening toward
Wedington Drive. Some of the other conditions are access to the proposed
storage unit shall be limited to the existing Rupple Road entrance. That is
also pursuant to the associated Bill of Assurance. Number five, a detailed
tree preservation plan shall be submitted in compliance with our current
ordinance requirement. Number six, 60% of the existing canopy on the
undeveloped south portion of the subject tract shall be preserved in
accordance with the Bill of Assurance. Seven, trash enclosures shall be
screened on three sides with access not visible to the street.
Hoover: Thank you. Would the applicant come forward?
Caudle: I'm Dennis Caudle who submitted the application. I would just like to say
he covered everything quite well for the history and the request and the
conditions. I would like to address some of the conditions that he brought
forward as far as the history. The City Council, there was a need for the
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 31
additional units at the time that it was submitted there was no climate
control in the entire city. Since then there has been one facility that does
have climate control now but there is still a need for that in that area of the
city. As far as the conditions, they recommended that the shrubbery, they
were very concerned even at the City Council level, of the visibility. This
building, I don't know if you all have seen the renderings before and after.
The new building would be almost exactly what you're seeing today.
There is no downgrade due to this new building, it is exactly what you're
seeing. They were concerned about the visibility of the facility itself. In
addressing that, they have come up with a couple ideas there of how to do
it and they show 20'. I would like to bring up a couple of things. The lot
on the front that is still R -O, we do have plans to develop that in the near
future also, which is a separate item. As far as the screening, one thing
that we would like to address is by moving the trees, shrubs and stuff that
they would like to pretty it up to the forefront toward the highway your
visibility if it is up close is improved in itself rather than putting it all the
way back right in front of the buildings. With the height of trees and
height of stuff on the highway it is a better screen than back in front of the
buildings. At the same time we do have plans to develop the R -O. One
thing that we would like for you all to consider is the fact that the building
in R -O that we will be proposing and working on in the future will be a
complete screen. It will totally cover the buildings where there is no
visibility of any kind. To put the new trees and shrubs and stuff in front of
the building where it is proposed basically there will be a building in that
immediate area that becomes completely obsolete at that point to do it now
with the building in the plans for coming in the immediate future. The
building that will go there will need landscaping in the front to make it
pretty and it will be an entirely different type building that is much more
attractive and at the same time, it will be the screening for that facility.
Hoover: Thank you. At this time we will open it up to public comment. Is there
anyone who would like to discuss this Conditional Use for Westside
Storage?
Becker: It is not quite public since I represent Dennis Caudle. I had a couple of
questions regarding a couple of items on the Conditional Use.
Hoover: Could you hold on? Let me see if there is any public comment first before
we bring it back to the applicant. Is there any public comment to this
Conditional Use? I just wanted to make it clear so no one had doubts.
You can come up now and address us. Please state your name.
Becker: Dennis Becker. First of all, item six on the recommendation from the staff
says 60% of the existing canopy seems a little severe from me. R -O from
the landscape manual requires a minimum of 20% and here you are
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March 8, 2004
Page 32
requiring 60% of the existing canopy. Does that feel a little severe to
anybody when your own landscape manual says 20% for R -O?
Bunch: Since that is already in a Bill of Assurance that the applicant has offered
can you explain to us why you are requesting a deviation from your Bill of
Assurance that you've already filed with the city?
Becker: Let's turn to the Bill of Assurance.
Bunch: I think this is a result of previous actions that have gone through this
Commission and through the City Council.
Becker: Good. It seems to me something happened on the road. I'm looking at the
quotation from the previous Bill of Assurance and it says "60% of the
existing trees." I don't see the word canopy in there.
Ostner: I'm not with you, 60% of the trees?
Becker: 60% of the existing trees was in the original Bill of Assurance, not the
word canopy.
Warrick: Our condition should be modified to reflect that statement.
Becker: There is a big difference between the number of trees and tree canopy.
We have no problem meeting the original Bill of Assurance and 60% of
the trees, we do have a problem with 60% of the canopy.
Vaught: 60% of the trees with a caliper of 8" or more is that correct?
Becker: Yes, you said this could be amended?
Warrick: Yes, to read the way that the Bill of Assurance reflected on page 8.18
reads.
Becker: Can I just pass these out real quick to the board? This is just a quickie
drawing that indicates the proposed building and floor ground. I reiterate
what Dennis said that I think it is much more affective to put your
landscaping in as one of your requirements in your landscaping manual
within 15' of the front property line adjacent to Hwy. 16 with a 4'
landscaping tree and evergreen at that point because a leaf in the
foreground is much more affective than a leaf far away. Since this border
is highly aesthetically sensitive I know that they would agree with that
approach. When is that building going to happen approximately?
Caudle: With a year.
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March 8, 2004
Page 33
Becker: If we put the landscaping in as the staff suggests it will be virtually
worthless within a year as we put the office complex in for that R -O
property. I think that's all I had to say.
Ostner: I have a question about this R -O parcel that is really not under
consideration tonight. That's not held to any of the same rules we're
talking about, about access onto Rupple is it?
Warrick: No, we are not placing conditions on the R -O property. The Bill of
Assurance addresses it so we made the statement with regard to the trees
which should be corrected to reflect the wording in the Bill of Assurance.
With regard to access and other development requirements on the R -O
tract, we are not addressing those now because we are not looking at a
proposal for development on the R -O tract.
Ostner: I was just curious.
Becker: The Bill of Assurance was meant so people would not come and go to
their storage unit off of Wedington.
Ostner: I was just wondering if that piece of land is going to be accessed off of
Wedington and it probably will.
Shackelford: The new building that you are proposing, will you access that building
from the north side of the building?
Caudle: It will be with the entrance off of Rupple just like it is now.
Shackelford: The actual door to get in the unit will it be on the north side of the building
or the south side of the building?
Caudle: It will be on all four sides of the building, just like all the storage buildings
are now.
Shackelford: My concern is if you have access to a building that is a storage building
and you have, as the conditions read, landscaping within 20', it is going to
be difficult. I would assume most people use a trailer of some sort. It is
going to be difficult to back a vehicle and a trailer into these entryways of
these units if you have landscaping within 20' of a unit. I think we are
setting ourselves up for a difficult situation there and tearing that
landscaping up as people try to access those units.
Caudle: The one thing that I will say also. Again, we do have it in the works for
the R -O type building. If you are concerned about that as far as the time
table, first this building here would be built and then that would follow
almost immediately, the beginning of that. If you are concerned about
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 34
whether or not this building would ever be built, just like the council
addressed in the initial meeting and left up to you all whenever it came
before you for a Conditional Use was the fact that if the building is not
built in that time frame to put up the fence that they recommended that
you all would address at this time, a fence that blocks the visibility.
Ostner: I think that is part of my issue with this. If you all want to wait and
develop them at the same time or vice versa I think the issue of this
landscape screen is basically solved. Right now we've only got this in
front of us and all that to the south is basically irrelevant at this point.
Caudle: It is irrelevant. I was only bringing it up for saying that to plant and do all
the work that is proposed at the 20' marker is a waste of money and a
waste of time if this, in fact, does develop. If, in fact, it doesn't develop
within a certain time frame that is acceptable to you all then we will do the
planting at that point and we will also do the fence at that point that the
Council thought some pretty fence that would cover the screening area
was the issue where they would not see the storage doors necessarily. I
brought it up only for the fact that all that expense of doing it like it was
originally possibly proposed if this building goes in it is all expense and
unnecessary and all going to have to be taken out anyway.
Ostner: I guess my point is it is only unnecessary on your time schedule. If you all
want to redo your development time schedule to do these together then the
issue takes care of itself.
Caudle: They are two different proposals. One will be R -O and one C-2.
Ostner: That is also my problem, that they are two different proposals. I'm only
looking at this on.
Caudle: I only bring it up to let you know that if this happens it is all unimportant
because it is going to be tore up anyway. If it doesn't happen we will put
in just what the City Council said that you all would probably want at the
time that they approved the rezoning because they were concerned about
looking at the storage doors. Again, the storage doors are no different
than you are looking at today. I understand what they are saying and we
are prepared to do several things to make it better.
Ostner: My issue on moving the screen, I'm inclined to go with the staff's
recommendation because when you move a screen away from the building
the sight lines go around it. It is almost negated. It doesn't work unless it
is close to a building. We are only looking at one project here. I guess that
would be my take on the 20' landscape screen.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 35
Vaught: How far is it, all we have is these drawings that you provided us, how far
is the access aisle for the proposed storage unit? I assume you will have
some type of fence there for security purposes anyway won't you?
Caudle: There will be the corridor there between the building.
Vaught: How wide is that access?
Caudle: 20' is what is proposed.
Vaught: That's what they typically are?
Caudle: Bigger is better of course, turning radius and stuff like that, the bigger the
better. We asked on our reapplication for 90' which would be adequate to
put in the building that we proposed originally. They came back and said
for the 90' that leaves the lot on the front that is still R -O.
Vaught: On the screening I guess I'm inclined to want to be more flexible on this.
The problem that is coming up is the time frame that we feel is adequate.
If it is not done in six months or twelve months it is kind of ambiguous on
our part not knowing when you will bring it forward. As far as the type of
screening, I would like to see a fence there and not just trees. I think that
is important so maybe reduce the number of trees in proportion to having a
fence there. I do want to be flexible with the developer in saying that they
do have six months or eight months to at least bring the project for the R -
O forward or get it approved and start construction on it. I don't know
what would be fair.
Caudle: I appreciate a little bit of time here to save me the expense of a high dollar
fence that you all would approve of and all the planting and all the
shrubbery that is going to be not a factor if this building, in fact, is built. I
appreciate the time to save me that expense.
Vaught: What type of fence do you normally build around, just a chain link?
Caudle: Generally if you look at most facilities and what is out there currently is
chain link fence. As far as what was brought up is a fence that is more
attractive and how that improves screening. I don't think they intended to
put up a privacy fence that was so tall that you couldn't see anything. Just
like the fence that was built on the new facility next to Meek's Lumber on
Gregg Street. That was obviously approved in some way. That's an
attractive fence that lends itself to being pretty instead of being something
you don't want to look at maybe.
Vaught: I do like the fence with the brick pilasters just to break up the fence
because then you run into the fence being just a big, blank surface too. I
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 36
do understand your concerns on the timing because there will be
unnecessary expense.
Caudle: A fence like that is a high dollar fence. If that was acceptable for them
then we could put up something that pretty. As far as to be given the lead
way of a little bit of time to get the other one off the ground to save me
that fence I would appreciate that gesture. If we are not off the ground
then we will put up that pretty fence.
Hoover: I would like to point out something that we need to be looking at item
number three while we're talking about this fencing item. If we have a
fence that is not opaque and we are seeing through it do we want these
buildings to comply with Commercial Design Standards. If we have an
opaque fence I think we are going to have to make a decision on that. If
we have a transparent one then it would be different.
Vaught: I personally would be for an opaque fence because storage buildings, it is
hard to make the actual building really pretty. It is going to be a big metal
building and I think a fence can be just as attractive and achieve the
purpose on this site especially with the number of trees they already do
have and the screening of the new trees they're putting in. I'm for just
requiring the fence and not making the building subject to Commercial
Design Standards.
Bunch: A question for the applicant. In relation to this, what sort of time frame
are you talking about as far as the building application or Certificate of
Occupancy as to a cutoff time when if you do not have a development
coming through for the R -O. If I'm not mistaken, this will not come back
before this body, it will be an administrative item that will be handled by
staff and we would need to give staff some direction on that. We need to
put a time if we do give an extension on the time, we need to tie it down to
something.
Caudle: The time table that I'm hoping to work with nothing would be done until
this summer whenever it dries up in time to do the dirt work and the
hillside and all the dirt work type preparation. The building would
probably be put up this fall, the storage climate control unit, hopefully by
October and the next proposed building would be next Spring and early
Summer.
Bunch: That's a pretty big gap there. If you were able to bring your R -O proposal
through before you completed the new building or your new facility, and
before you got your Certificate of Occupancy on it, it you had something
that was being presented, I think that would be a reasonable time period.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 37
Caudle: We are talking from the time the storage would be completed in October
until the other one would be under way in early Summer, six months
roughly. Like I said, if, for the reason I stated, developed the idea of the
fence also, if it is not through approved and ready to do the dirt work and
get it underway we'll get underway with the fence right then.
Bunch: Staff, would this building require a Certificate of Occupancy?
Warrick: Either a Certificate of Occupancy or a Certificate of Completion, that
would be determined by the Building Safety Division.
Anthes: When I read through the notes from the Planning Commission meeting in
2000 and the City Council meeting, it seems pretty clear to me that there
was a lot of discussion about screening and about the fence and the only
thing that made this project ok for those people voting for the project at
the time and allowing this use was that there was some assurance that this
screening would be installed. I feel the same way and I feet that we
should respect the decision that was made at the time that that be part of
allowing this particular use on this site. If this building is not going to be
subject to Commercial Design Standards then the fence, in my mind, is
necessary whether or not there is a building that sits in front of it. You
will be able to see this at oblique angles, you will be able to see it from the
parking lot, you will be able to see it from the front road and so in my
mind the screening and the fence must exist whether or not the building is
developed on the R -O property and in the configuration and distance from
the street that staff recommends.
Vaught: Would you want both of them 20' from the building, the fencing and the
screening to be right next to each other on the front line of the C-2, is that
what you're saying?
Anthes: What I would assume, you would have the building, you would have the
drive aisle, you would have the fence and then you would have the
landscape buffer in that sequence.
Ostner: What type of fence?
Anthes: What was discussed in these other meetings was a privacy fence, "a nice
one that has brick pillars and privacy in between them" I think a similar
sentiment was expressed several times during these meetings.
Hoover: Would other Commissioners like to weigh in?
Ostner: Since we are sort of having to juggle the screen and the design standards, I
would like to support Commissioner Anthes that basically a board fence
with brick columns. We see them all over town. I would be willing if it
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 38
were an opaque fence properly landscaped in front to not push the building
to Commercial Design Standards. It seems fair, it seems like the purpose
is achieved by the screen.
Hoover: I want to say I agree. I think it is easier to design a fence that is going to
look nice than try to make the warehouse itself look nice.
Anthes: And cheaper than the building. What we haven't addressed here is the
west and east sides of that facility. Was that part of staff's
recommendation?
Warrick: No, we didn't really address the east and west. We felt that the south was
more in need of being addressed and that was what was primarily
discussed through the historical information that we put together on the
project.
Caudle: To the west there is the back of the new Wedington Plaza building and to
the east there is the wooded area.
Anthes: We just had a very long discussion about Commercial Design Standards
tonight where all four sides of the building were needing to be brought up
to some sort of level or standard. Obviously, this building is not going to
be to that level on any side and we are accepting the fence on the south
side. I would like to know other Commissioners opinions about those
other sides, particularly the east side.
Shackelford: I would like to go one step farther and ask our City Attorney his opinion
of whether or not Commercial Design Standards are applicable in this
instance.
Williams: I'm not sure. Of course, this is not a normal commercial building or else
they wouldn't have to have a Conditional Use to be putting it in C-2.
Being a storage facility it is it's own animal. Obviously, there has been a
lot of concern about a mini storage and other storage buildings throughout
town. Usually there have been efforts by the Planning Commission and
the City Council before also to do something to try to ensure that they
would be screened from the major thoroughfares. I remember when I was
on the Council and we had some mini storage problems on Hwy. 265 and
other places. I think that is one of the things that lead to the Commercial
Design Standards and also more screening requirement making this a
Conditional Use so you could take proper action to protect the views from
the major streets. I think the screening by this fence which has been
spoken about as far back as 2000 and the Planning Commission in 2001
City Council is certainly applicable when you are screening it from a
major street like you're talking about. I think that that is quite appropriate.
I don't think that the applicant here is being surprised because that is what
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 39
he has been told time and time again when he came and asked for a
rezoning.
MOTION:
Bunch: I would direct the Commission's attention to a project that came through
on Gregg Avenue where the county shops used to be. That was a storage
facility and it was given Commercial Design Standards treatment. I think
if the applicant is aware of that, the one near Upchurch Electric. I think by
comparison being allowed to put in a fence and landscaping to screen is
considerably different than meeting Commercial Design Standards. I
think that we could beat this horse to death here talking about it over and
over and over because it has been through many times. I think in fairness
to the applicants that are coming through on projects subsequent to this on
the agenda that we need to make strides here to move one way or the other
on this and I am going to make a motion that we approve this Conditional
Use with the screening as stated in condition two that there be fencing and
native vegetation and that they not be subject to removal with
development of the lot to the south with R -O and that we eliminate the
Commercial Design Standards directing the staff to see that there is
sufficient screening as described on condition number two where
Commercial Design Standards will not be applicable and with condition
six, that the word canopy be changed to the word trees as to reflect what is
in the Bill of Assurance that is on file.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Bunch, is there a second?
Shackelford: I will second.
Hoover: Is there anymore discussion?
Ostner: Did I hear you say something about no removal of this?
Bunch: No removal of the fence and screen as the property develops. Since the
applicant owns both pieces of property and they are zoned differently in
order to get his 20' distance to have his driveway in and then put in his
screening and his fencing I'm assuming that with an R -O development
that he would still want to have his fencing for security purposes in order
to best market his warehousing. Therefore, we would want to keep that
fencing, he would want to keep the fencing in affect and I think that we
would likewise want to have it in affect. If any of the screening is placed
on the R -O property since the applicant owns both properties that that
would not be endangered by a subsequent development on the R -O
property so that we won't have to go through this long, drawn out thing
again and again and again. That's my reasoning for saying that it would
not be removed.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 40
Ostner: It makes good sense.
Anthes: I noticed Commissioner Hoffman had left some very specific notes in here
that I wanted to ask staff about. It said when the Conditional Use came
through that we not only were to discuss screening but also lighting, hours
of operation and revocation. Can you speak to that? Are we supposed to
address these issues?
Warrick: Staff has included that information in the findings that are required for all
Conditional Uses. That is addressed in your report.
Anthes: We haven't discussed those items as a Commission right?
Warrick: Trash enclosures are addressed on page 8.5, signage as well. Signage and
lighting are addressed in the same finding. We are going to have to
review some of this information at the time of a building permit
application. The information that was submitted was enough for us to
bring forward the Conditional Use request but it was not detailed and
specific information that we will have an additional opportunity to review
in detail when the building permit is requested. We will continue to
review this project through the permitting process.
Anthes: I have just never seen hours of operation and things like that be listed in
any of our work before so that's what I was questioning. Is that something
that is actually open to debate?
Warrick: Many times in a Conditional Use that is something that we will look at. It
is typically more appropriate when we are looking at inserting a childcare
facility in a residential district where there may be disruptions of normal,
everyday activities because of the Conditional Use. In this particular case
we didn't specifically address it. We are looking at an industrial business
but it is in a commercial area and that is not information that we expanded
upon in this particular report. It is something that we do look at in
Conditional Uses. Typically more in Conditional Uses that are in
residential districts.
Bunch: Staff, did the motion as presented give you proper direction to handle any
subsequent development on this site or is there anything else that you need
to be included in the motion?
Warrick: I think the only additional information that would help us in permitting
this project would be to understand what type of fencing is being
expected, if it is an opaque fence or if it is a chain link fence or something
in between.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 41
Bunch: If the seconder wouldn't mind to accept it I will change the motion to
include comments on the type of fencing that it would be an opaque fence
with brick columns and wood intervening and could be of a shadowbox
nature, not necessarily entirely opaque but basically something that blocks
the view and depending on the height of the fence we would still need
some vegetative screening and I think that I would leave that to our
landscape and planning department to work with the applicant on what is
affective coverage. If we have a 6' or 8' fence, I know for security fence
you probably want an 8' fence. I don't know what the eave height of your
building is because we don't have that before us at this time but I think
that these are things that staff will be able to work with. Dawn, is that
sufficient on the fencing to say that it be a combination wood and brick
masonry fence? Masonry columns with wood fill in between and give the
option that it could be a shadow box, not totally opaque fence.
Warrick: Yes Sir, that is specific enough.
Caudle: I have one thing I would like to say. When this began I said I wanted to
address it as the Council voted on it and their concerns in the beginning.
First off, you didn't require the facility on Gregg Street to put up a privacy
fence and that was approved. Second, I asked a favor I guess, I came
before you all. I do have plans to build a building and I ask that you all
take that into consideration if possible and I assured you that I would put
up the fence that you all wanted if, in fact, I hadn't got the other one
underway. The new building will screen it. Instead of any consideration
in that direction you come up with I've got to do all of this and I cannot
touch it again, I cannot remove it so I have a problem with that.
Bunch: I will make one more modification that the timing on this will be with a
Certificate of Occupancy or Certificate of Completion if by that time there
is a companion, or a development coming through the process for the R -O
property immediately to the south that this can be modified at that time.
That gives you not just until the building permit time, which is what we
gave one of our previous projects tonight but to give to the Certificate of
Occupancy or Certificate of Completion. In other words, until the time
you get this thing completely built but before you can start renting out
spaces in it you have up until that time to bring in another proposal for the
property next to it otherwise the fence goes in.
Caudle: That's what I asked for in the beginning.
Bunch: I asked you if that was sufficient time and you told me no.
Caudle: Maybe I misunderstood. Completion of the first building and the other
one under way that would be acceptable. I'm just trying to avoid
something.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 42
Bunch: Basically, what we are trying to do is we have certain stopping points and
certain controls. I personally have no problem with allowing that much
time to make the decision before you are allowed to start utilizing your
new building.
Caudle: I can do that.
Bunch: That is what we asked earlier and you said you couldn't and that's why I
made my motion the way I made it.
Caudle: I just said at the time period of building underway I had a bigger time
period in there. As far as having one underway before we rent the first
one in the new park?
Bunch: If your second one comes through as a Large Scale Development that
comes with an automatic one year life on it. If you bring your second
proposal through, the one for the R -O property, if you bring it through
before in the timing that we just discussed, that you bring that proposal
through then it has a year's life if it is approved. You can do your
planning up ahead but you can still wait on your financing and whatever.
Staff, am I correct in describing it that way about the one year life?
Warrick: Yes.
Caudle: The way I understand it is I either have that done or I have the fence up
one way or the other.
Hoover: I have to ask for clarification, you were saying what is the time span that
he has to have?
Bunch: That he has to have either the fence up or a hard and fast proposal for the
second property submitted to Planning for the R -O property to the south
by the time of either Certificate of Occupancy or Certificate of
Completion which is basically before that facility can go into use, before
you can start renting units out.
Caudle: I can do that.
Warrick: I do have one question. How would you like us to treat this if the property
to the south does not come through the Planning Commission as a Large
Scale Development?
Caudle: Would it be Large Scale if it is under an acre?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 43
Warrick: The property as a whole, there is not a lot line at the zoning line. The
property as a whole contains more than one acre. If it is divided it may
not all come back as a Large Scale Development. There is a possibility
that we would be looking at a building permit only. At which point, it
would not come back to the Planning Commission.
Bunch: I don't think that that would be problematic because the thing is to have a
building on there to work as a shielding. I think that we could give staff
direction. If it comes through as a building permit process does the
Planning Department look at it at all?
Warrick: We do but what you're looking at, the reason to have screening is a
condition of the Conditional Use. It is this application that would impact a
screening requirement because a Conditional Use is a use that is not
approved by right in a zoning district. The mini storage that has been
mentioned on Gregg Street is in an Industrial zoning district. It is by right.
It is not in a Commercial District surrounded by other Commercial
projects. There are Commercial projects in the area that are also in
Industrial zoning districts by enlarge. This is a different situation. The
reason that we are looking at it as a Conditional Use, the reason that it has
been very much discussed for ten years is that the zoning is not there for a
mini storage. The zoning is there for Thoroughfare Commercial and the
Conditional Use is brought to the Planning Commission and you are given
the opportunity to determine whether or not it is appropriate with
conditions including things like screening and sometimes hours of
operation or lighting or parking or other types of factors that may be
adverse because of the type of use. It is brought to the Planning
Commission to make those determinations. I think it is appropriate that
the Planning Commission make those determinations and it becomes very
difficult for staff to then modify those conditions and changes as this thing
evolves.
Bunch: Ok, then in that case would it be sufficient to say that if a development
comes through on that R -O portion that the screening should be shifted up
to the highway instead of 20' from the building that a combination of
whatever building goes in on the R -O property and as the applicant had
mentioned earlier, that the screening could be closer to the highway,
would that be a sufficient direction?
Warrick: There will be a landscaping requirement adjacent to the highway
regardless. There will be a requirement for a 15' landscape buffer with
one tree every 30 linear feet plus shrubs if it is adjacent to parking
adjacent to the street right of way. I think that it would not be the
screening for the mini storage units, it would be the landscaping
requirements for the new development that would be located adjacent to
Wedington Drive.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 44
Caudle: The building itself will be the screening.
Warrick: There would then be no screening between the Residential Office
development and the Industrial use to the north.
Caudle: But I own both.
Hoover: I was with you up until making a proposal submitting for the R -O property
that the screening might not need to go in but I think what you need to add
to that is this R -O comes back to the Planning Commission and that will
make it easier for staff and I think then it could be looked at again and
where the screening ought to be. I think the screening issue is going to
come up again.
Bunch: Particularly on the east border of that R -O property. I think that is a good
suggestion and that would save a lot of problems just to say that any
development on the R -O portion of this same property has to come back to
the Planning Commission.
Warrick: As a Large Scale Development or for review with regard to screening?
Shackelford: For review only.
Warrick: Obviously, if it is a tract of land over an acre in size it will come back to
you as a Large Scale Development but if that situation changes is your
requirement that it come back to the Planning Commission for review?
Bunch: This particular one isn't coming through as a Large Scale Development
and it's on the same piece of property.
Warrick: It's an addition to an existing development that is less than 10,000 sq.ft. in
size and does not require 25 parking spaces. It meets the threshold for
exemption from Large Scale.
Bunch: Rather than complicate the process, a quick poll of fellow Commissioners.
Would you want to see it come back as just a review of screening or as a
Large Scale?
Ostner: I think it needs to be looked at overall. We are throwing out so many
things that were important a year or two ago. I think it completely needs
to be reviewed as a Large Scale and screening.
Bunch: I will entertain someone presenting that as an amendment and we can vote
on the amendment separate from the motion.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 45
Hoover: Are you sure you don't want to include it in your motion?
Vaught: The applicant said something about parking spaces, the development will
have over 25 parking spaces?
Becker: It will have to come back as a Large Scale because there will be more than
25 parking spaces.
Vaught: It might not and you can change your mind and that's why we are going to
add the requirement.
Bunch: That will be part of my motion.
Shackelford: Now we have a problem because I only wanted it to come back as a
review instead of a Large Scale. I hate to see that happen but it sounds
like the applicant is fine with it coming back as a Large Scale. As long as
he doesn't have to repeat the motion to us I'm going to accept it.
Caudle: I'm going to do what we agree on here or what you're telling me I'm
required to do. I appreciate the fact that you sound like you are giving me
the opportunity to maybe not build it and tear it down and build to give me
just a little bit of flexibility here where I can do this.
Vaught: It is my understanding that at the time of inspection for Certificate of
Completion or Occupancy if there is no proposal in the works they have to
build a fence and they won't get their certificate until the fence is built. If
there is something in the works it is not required?
Bunch: Correct.
Ostner: My concern with that caveat that Commissioner Vaught just mentioned is
that many things get in the works and fall out of the works, probably more
than things that pass, I'm not sure. Lots of things get in the works and
don't go anywhere. I believe we are putting undue stress on staff. Poor
Jeremy or someone is going to have to be the Certificate of Completion
fence cop. Wait a minute, what is the day? I have to go out there. Are
they done? I don't think that's fair.
Hoover: Staff, would you respond to that? Don't you usually have to check off a
checklist on Certificate of Occupancy?
Warrick: Yes.
Ostner: Juggling that with another proposal is a lot to keep up with and it is not
straight procedure for one project to not be complete because another one
might be in the works.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 46
Caudle: I will go one step further if it helps. Before the Certificate of Occupancy
is issued we have gone through the numbers there and at that point we will
either be pouring a slab for the new building or we will be putting up a
fence.
Ostner: How about a building permit?
Caudle: That's fine and acceptable.
Ostner: If a permit is in the works, all the approvals are in place. We are defining
in the works.
Hoover: First, let's ask staff if they have a problem with the motion as it was made.
Warrick: We will do what we need to do to ensure that your motion is enforced.
Whether it is a Certificate of Occupancy or Completion or whether it is a
building permit stage, we just need to know. We just need to know what it
is that you expect time wise and what you expect to see. I think I
understand what is expected to be installed should the landscaping and
screening need to be installed. I have got that. Timing has not been
determined and I just need to know whether or not we issue a building
permit or hold it until there is another plan in process or ensure that the
landscaping and screening shown on the plans and a requirement of the
building permit or we transfer that requirement to the time of Certificate of
Occupancy.
Ostner: What I meant by the time of building permit is a permit has been pulled on
the R -O property. The next project is not just being talked about but it has
actually been permitted and is about to be built.
Hoover: How is that going to be any different? I am not understanding how you
are trying to help staff. Frankly, I think they will stand up for themselves
if they have a problem.
Shackelford: It also is a Conditional Use so down the road if we feel the applicant
wasn't doing what they were supposed to as a Conditional Use we can
force it back in front of the Planning Commission under that pretense.
Ostner: We are agreeing to some things tonight that are the agreement.
Shackelford: If staff makes the call that in their opinion that the second project is in the
works and that falls through somewhere down the road we can, since it is
a Conditional Use, call this back into question to the Planning
Commission and force it at that time.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 47
Williams: I would like to see something in there where after the second project has
been built, not in the works, not a building permit or anything like that.
This whole thing be reviewed at the Planning Commission level after the
second project has been built to see whether additional screening is
required to meet the statements that were made by the applicant before the
City Council and before the Planning Commission in the past talking
about that he would be happy to build this sort of fence screening. It may
be the new project will block it off. It might be that there will be parking
lots around it and when you go out and look you'll say that's not met. If
you just bring it back after his project is done. I think that it should be
reviewed at that time. Until that time we are all just talking about the air,
we don't know, we can't see.
Shackelford: Can I second his motion too?
Allen: I liked that. I wondered if we could withdraw the motion.
Bunch: That would be an added condition to the existing motion. It would just be
one more layer on it. I will happily add that to the motion.
Hoover: And does the seconder agree?
Shackelford: Sure, why not.
Vaught: Just for clarification, we are saying that we want to see it back as an LSD
and then even though we are going to review all of those things at LSD for
the front project, we still want to see it back for review after that? Are
those things that we can accomplish at the LSD of the second project?
Williams: No, you would be reviewing the granting of the Conditional Use you are
doing tonight, you would be reviewing that after the other project is
finished. You would be able to take a tour, go out and say has this
accomplished the screening we thought it did?
Anthes: I was coming around on Commissioner Bunch's initial motion but we are
still looking, I'm looking at four years of notes, Dawn says ten years of
approval here that the reason they allowed, these former Commissioners
and City Councilmen, allowed this industrial use in a Commercial zone
was with the assurance that there would be a masonry and board fence
around it for screening. Unless that is there I'm not going to support this
project. Frankly, I would like to see it on the west and east as well as the
south.
Hoover: Are there any other comments before we call the roll?
Ostner: I would like to agree with Commissioner Anthes.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 48
Allen: I would agree also.
Ostner: There is already a great deal of negotiation that has already gone on and I
feel like we have started down the road to continue that even more when
we're only talking about one fence. Since it is a use that is not allowed in
this zone but it is allowed with a Conditional Use I'm not sure why this
fence doesn't need to wrap around to the east side. That is zoned A-1, it is
probably going to be rezoned. It could be a parking lot. It could be
houses abutting this. It needs to be screened on the east also.
Hoover: May I ask how many positive votes does it take to approve a Conditional
Use?
Williams: It requires five affirmative votes.
Caudle: When the project was originally built in 1990 C-2 was adequate for
storage buildings and of course, Conditional Uses have come in since
then.
Shackelford: A fence wasn't required with the original approval on those two sides.
Anthes: No but it was on the south.
Hoover: Shall we call the roll? Does anyone have anything left to add? I think we
call the roll.
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-10.00 was
denied by a vote of 3-6-0 with Commissioners Graves, Ostner, Hoover,
Church, Anthes and Allen voting no.
Thomas: The motion fails by a vote of six to three.
Hoover: Thank you.
Hoover: We will move onto item number nine. It is a Conditional Use for property
located south of 3868 Sunbest Court. Jeremy?
Pate: Thank you Madam Chair. This property is located north of Joyce Street on
Sunbest Court. The property is zoned RSF-4, Residential Single Family,
four units per acre. The applicant is requesting a tandem lot. This lot is to
be created with a Property Line Adjustment which is an administrative
process that staff reviews. That Property Line Adjustment request is in the
process currently. The larger parcel is being adjusted to allow for
construction of an additional single family home. Access from the
existing curb and guttered private drive. The applicant is proposing this
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 49
lot without adequate frontage onto a public right of way. Therefore, a
Conditional Use for a tandem lot is required. The applicant plans to build a
single family home on the smaller tandem lot and proposes to utilize the
existing 15' curb and gutter driveway to access the two lots. Staff is
recommending approval of this Conditional Use with a number of
conditions.
Hoover: Excuse me Jeremy, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Bunch: Point of Order.
Hoover: I guess would you like to pose a question?
Bunch: I would like to ask a question of the City Attorney. Just because the
motion failed that does not mean that we have completed that subject.
Would not the negative side be able to present a motion that describes
their wishes?
Williams: That is correct. It depends on how you structured your motion. One of
the six that voted against this could state that the screening that had been
suggested by the three failed was inadequate and did not cover what had
previously been agreed to which was of course, the fence and what staff
had recommended, vegetation, and a motion could be made to approve it
as staff recommended as opposed to as it had been modified.
Shackelford: Or they could craft their own motion. It seems to me we went from
arguing a condition of approval to not approving it at all in a very short
matter.
Graves: I agree. The main issue I have is with this fence. They had plenty of
warning about it for three years. They are not surprised by the fact that
that would be a condition and the very fact that we had so much trouble
trying to word a motion to buy them time to put that fence in or not put
that fence in is indicative of how problematic it would be for the staff in
trying to put that together. I think with the fence in and the canopy that
they knew was coming I don't have a problem with it.
Williams: Basically, the whole motion went to condition number two of the
Conditional Use request which is Planning Commission determination of
appropriate screening. Obviously, on a six to three vote the Planning
Commission did not feel that was the appropriate screening. That doesn't
mean that has now been the determination that there is no possible
screening and so the Planning Commission could, one of the six that voted
against this, suggest what the appropriate screening would be and see if
that would pass, only after you make that determination should you vote
on the entire Conditional Use itself.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page SO
Shackelford: I feel that our disagreement on the amount of screening necessary on this
project just disallowed an applicant to build a building. I'm not sure that
we did the applicant justice in that area. If you disagree with my
screening that is one thing. Let's strike down that motion and let's hear
what you would support to give him due process instead of we just
eliminated him for the calendar year. What's the time frame in which he
could bring it back?
Williams: Is it a year requirement?
Warrick: The way that the ordinance reads with regard to a Conditional Use, no
application for a Conditional Use will be considered by the Planning
Commission within 12 months of final disapproval of a proposed
Conditional Use unless there is evidence of changed conditions or new
circumstances which justify reconsideration submitted to the Planning
Commission. There is some lead way for discretion but it would need to
be a changed circumstance. The issue of screening is not a changed
circumstance. They were proposing screening and we were
recommending screening so it is a matter of timing more than anything
else. I don't think that that is a changed circumstance that would merit a
reconsideration because that is not a change.
Hoover: The issue is do we have one of the six that would like to make a motion
for the Conditional Use with some type of conditions?
Anthes: I will propose that we follow the intent of previous Council and Planning
Commission determinations by requiring a masonry and wood privacy
fence located 20' from the southern and eastern boundaries of the
proposed building with the proper vegetative screening as recommended
by the Landscape Administrator and in compliance with Don Bunch's
original motion which said that that screening would remain in place
regardless of the development of the R -O property.
Vaught: Two things. If the fence is found to be adequate would you also leave it
up to the discretion of staff to determine if the fence and vegetation is
needed or are you requiring both?
Anthes: Both. That was the original recommendation. We can talk about the
height of the fence too if you would like.
Vaught: No. I was going to leave that to staff s discretion.
Williams: It would probably be better for you to make some sort of determination on
that rather than leave it to staff s discretion.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 51
Anthes: Minimum 6'.
Vaught: With vegetation included?
Anthes: Yes.
Vaught: Two, you also added a condition for the east side.
Anthes: I did, wasn't that exciting.
Vaught: Would you do that masonry and wood fence for the entire length of the
property just for the new building portion or could they use just a wood
fence on that side?
Williams: You can only go 90'.
Anthes: The 90', whatever that is.
Vaught: You want wood and masonry or just the wood?
Anthes: Frankly, any other building in this commercial district would be required
to meet Commercial Design Standards. This fence is a lot less expensive
than bringing that building up to meet Commercial Design Standards.
Saying that, I think that it is adequate to say that the masonry and wood
would extend because that is the substitution for Commercial Design
Standards.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Anthes, is there a second?
Shackelford: Commissioner Anthes, are you saying in respect to all the other changes
Commissioner Bunch as far as the language on condition number six
regarding the trees. There were two very long amendments that he did.
Anthes: Right, you mean to the canopy verses tree issue? Yes, I just want to
remove any indication that this requirement would be altered based on
subsequent development to the south.
Ostner: I will second that motion.
Hoover: There is a second by Commissioner Ostner. Can we clarify it one more
time since the applicant is back in the room?
Warrick: In addition to the change in condition number six to reflect the wording in
the Bill of Assurance the screening requirement would be a masonry and
wood privacy fence 20' from the south and east property lines to extend
90' on the east, which is the expanse of the subject property, with
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 52
vegetative screen to be approved by the Landscape Administrator.
Screening to remain in place regardless of any future R -O developments.
The screening fence shall be a minimum of 20' tall.
Anthes: I think it was 20' from the building rather than the property line because
we don't have a property line.
Warrick: Thank you, from the building.
Hoover: Is that correct for the motioner and the second?
Anthes: Yes.
Ostner: Yes.
Hoover: Is there more discussion?
Shackelford: Would you give the applicant a chance to respond?
Hoover: Yes, do you have a comment?
Caudle: I understand what she said is similar to what Don was saying with the
addition of extending the fence around to the east side?
Shackelford: It's required to be built regardless.
Caudle: Built regardless and has to stay there regardless?
Shackelford: Yes.
Hoover: Is there anymore discussion?
Ostner: Part of the reason I'm supporting this is that fences do things that
buildings don't. I understand a building to the south would help screen
this. The building could be 1,000 sq.ft., the building could be 20' wide
and 30' long and there is an entire lot left staring at this situation that we
are either dealing with or not dealing with. The neat thing about fences is
that they wrap completely and then they're done. That's why they call
them screens. That's why I think it needs to be in place and I think it needs
to wrap around the east side. There is undeveloped area. It is only logical
if we are protecting a view from the south which goes back 10 years in all
these minutes that that same view or that same collision of zones should
be dealt with on the east side and vacant unzoned, undeveloped area. It is
a short span and I don't think it puts an undue burden on the applicant to
meet the Conditional Use.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 53
Hoover: Are there other comments? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the revised motion to approve CUP 04-
10.00 was approved by a vote of 5-4-0 with Commissioners Shackelford,
Vaught, Bunch and Church voting no.
Hoover: I think we're done now thank you. Back to item number nine.
Vaught: I tried to catch you before we voted but on the east property line we said
20' from the building, it is 30' to his property line and I was wanting that
changed before we voted but I didn't catch it. I don't know what we need
to do. That bothers me.
Hoover: Staff, what do you think we need to do for that?
Warrick: The motion was specific to 20'. An amendment to the motion could take
it to the east property line.
Vaught: We just took 10' away so I would just like to propose an amendment to
the last item, CUP 04-10.00 to amend the original approval from 20' on
the east side of the building to the property line, 30'.
Hoover: Is there a second?
Ostner: Point of order, I'm not sure we can amend something we already passed.
Williams: You would probably have to do a motion to reconsider. Mr. Vaught, you
wouldn't be able to make that motion, it would have to be somebody in
the majority to make that motion.
MOTION:
Ostner: I voted in the majority. I will make a motion that we reconsider and once
again, go back to the Conditional Use of Westside Storage, CUP 04-10.00.
Hoover: We have a motion to reconsider, is there a second?
Anthes: Sure.
Hoover: Is there any discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to reconsider CUP 04-10.00
was approved by a vote of 8-1-0 with Commissioner Bunch voting no.
Thomas: The motion carries eight to one.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 54
MOTION:
Vaught: I would like to make an amendment to the conditions of approval for CUP
04-10.00 to amend the originally passed Conditional Use for the east side
fence to be at the property line, not 20' from the building.
Anthes: Second.
Hoover: There is a motion by Commissioner Vaught and a second by
Commissioner Anthes with the amended motion as stated. Is there
discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to amend the originally
approved motion was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Hoover: Is that Conditional Use done? Everybody agrees upon it now? Ok.
Jeremy?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 55
CUP 04-09.00: Conditional Use (Travis Woods, pp 137/176) was submitted by Dave
Jorgensen of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of Travis Woods for property located
south of 3868 Sunbest Court. The property is zoned RSF-4, Residential Single-family, 4
units per acre. The request is to allow development of a tandem lot.
Pate: Thank you Madam Chair. This Conditional Use is for a tandem lot
located off of Sunbest Court north of Joyce Blvd. The lot is being created
with a Property Line Adjustment which is an administrative process
reviewed by staff that is in process. The larger parcel is being adjusted to
allow for the construction of an additional single-family home access from
the existing 15' curb and gutter private drive. The proposed lot with the
lot line adjustment, realignment of the lot, does not have adequate frontage
onto a right of way. Thus, the request for a Conditional Use for a tandem
lot. There are specific findings and requirements for the applicant. Those
have been met. The Conditional Use should not adversely affect the
public interest. The existing property is a large tract of land,
approximately 14 acres and is currently developed with one single family
residence. The frontage for the existing lot is along the cul-de-sac of
Sunbest Court which does not allow for a maximum developed potential
of another lot in that area without constructing another public street. The
lot does meet all zoning requirements with the exception of frontage
which is why we are here and the applicant is requesting that tandem lot to
have access to the public street from the existing 15' private drive with a
30' access easement. This is a waiver request from the minimum 25'
width. I did speak with the Fire Department today. Because it is a private
drive located within a private access easement he feels that is adequate for
this location to serve both of these homes and he is not recommending that
that be widened at all. I believe that is the primary major findings. I know
there are most likely some members of the public here to comment on this
item. Specifically, property owners to the west. Staff is recommending
approval of the Conditional Use subject to six conditions. One of which
references the access to a public street and the others are basically
requirements for a Conditional Use for a tandem lot.
Hoover: Thank you Jeremy. Would the applicant come forward?
Jorgensen: Yes, my name is Dave Jorgensen and I'm here on behalf of Travis Wood
representing this Conditional Use request. We are here to answer
questions and take comments. Jeremy put it very well. This is a little over
14 acres and we are talking about two houses on this 14 acres. This new
house naturally will fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. I would be
glad to answer questions.
Hoover: Thank you. We will now open the Conditional Use up to public comment,
the CUP for property located south of 3868 Sunbest Ct. Is there any
member of the audience that would like to address this Conditional Use?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 56
Smith: My name is Harvey Smith and I live just south of where this house is
being proposed to be built. I don't have a problem with a house being
built and I know the gentleman, Mr. Woods, who is going to build the
house and I know he is going to do everything in his power to keep any
problems from occurring. The house is being built on a hillside and it is a
drainage that is silt soil and about 6" down below there is clay. All of the
runoff comes down into my pond I have there. Down below I drain into a
wetlands area which is owned by the Ozark Regional Land Trust. We just
have some concern, not with Mr. Woods, because I know that he wants to
do everything in his power to keep any problems from occurring. I,
myself, just want assurances from the City Engineer and the city that
everything that can be done will be done to prevent any silt runoff from
this starting from day one of the construction. Again, the owner has no
control over some guy that pulls up with a bulldozer and he does
something incorrectly and then it rains 2" that night and then we've got a
big problem. It is not just about my nice pond, it is about this wetland area
which we're concerned about.
Hoover: Thank you.
Smith: I don't know how this can be handled but if there is an assurance from the
city that they guarantee as a condition of approval that what needs to be
done will be done then I have no problem with it.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any other member of the audience who would like to
address this Conditional Use?
Galbrech: I am Greg Galbrech and I represent Ozark Regional Land Trust. We own
the property directly to the left of the tract that is under consideration. To
the west if you have your directions oriented here. Our property is
approximately four acres, it is a conservation area. It is associated to the
property of Dr. Hudson who is also here in the audience and who also has
a pond on his property, a really nice large pond. The situation is that our
land which is dedicated to conservation and associated with about 12 acres
of Dr. Hudson's property is planned for greenspace and a nature center as
a future plan after Dr. Hudson's death. I think that there are some
possibilities, I've talked with Travis Wood about the compatibility of that
house in relationship to our property. It is adjacent to and in view of our
property. I think that there is a possibility of working out things that are
compatible here. When I talked to Travis one of the things that came forth
was his expression to me was we've got the cart before the horse. What
he meant there was we are launching into getting approval, I'm not sure
and he wasn't entirely sure, what that means or how it impacts the
neighbors. The last I talked with him he was under the impression that
this application was going to be postponed into April so we were just
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 57
beginning some dialogues about this whole situation. I think it is
important to proceed with those dialogues before I feel comfortable with
this development, even though it is just one house happening. There is a
number of reasons. One is there have been, in this particular location, the
intention of several landowners to dedicate the area to low density
development. They have made substantial investments, both in their own
properties and into purchasing property to direct this area in that that
direction. Without doubt, outside this core area there is a lot of
development, commercial development along Joyce Blvd. and so on. That
doesn't necessarily affect what we're trying to do in this particular
location. I think what we are trying to do is keep the integrity of that area.
Since there is already a long term commitment to conservation I think that
should be taken into consideration. Is it possible to request a tabling of
this kind of application?
Hoover: Staff?
Warrick: The Planning Commission could vote to take action on one of those
actions that is within your discretion if to table it.
Galbrech: There are a number of reasons I would suggest tabling the action. For one
reason I believe that this was going to be postponed anyway so it cuts off
the dialogue that has begun, which is a friendly dialogue, to try to make
this project workable. Secondly, the owner of the main piece of property,
David Sloan, is interested in discussing with us some assurances of
limiting development in the future that is dedicating additional land to
open space. That discussion has just begun. Doing this lot split, it I
uncertain to me exactly what the implications are. If you look at the
property that is involved, there is a strip of land that is going not even
from Joyce Blvd., but starting some portion back from Joyce Blvd. and
follows the driveway north and goes to the main piece of property. It is
currently zoned for Residential, four units per acre. I would like to sit
down with Planning and talk about what kind of development the
landowners want to see in this area before you make decisions that are to
me kind of hodgepodge. You are putting a house here in the middle of
this thing that sort of to me doesn't seem to fit how you would use the rest
of the land unless it was dedicated to natural area. I would like to see the
landowners really discuss that and the Planning Department so that the
efforts have been made in the past. All of this property around Harvey
Smith's land was once going to be a subdivision and through efforts of
purchasing coming before the Council before it has gone in a different
direction from becoming a subdivision. The previous owner, Mr. Latta,
was also dedicated to keeping a large, open space. I think that there is
continuity here that really should be thought about. I think that maybe the
zoning should be looked at for some specific parcels here as well as what
type of roads, infrastructure, and so on would be needed or not needed if
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 58
some of his land was dedicated to conservation. There is also the runoff
from the property, which has already been acknowledged as a potential
problem for the pond on Dr. Harvey Smith's property and that also drains
into our property and into Dr. Hudson's property who also maintains a
really nice pond to be addressed. I think that can be addressed but I would
like it to be addressed by the landowners prior to it coming here for the
application so that this discussion wouldn't have to happen. More or less,
I would like to come here and say I approve and affirm this whole project
given the time to sit down and work it out with the architect and the
engineers and so on. In fact, a letter from Rob Sharp, the architect for the
applicant, said that it was his recommendation that he finds it to help if
you can talk to the neighbors informally before the public hearing if you
haven't already. It really, that really hasn't happened. The discussions
have sort of began at the I I 1 hour. It was really us contacting Travis
Woods. He is basically open to further discussions, he was just ignorant
to realizing that building a house here really has a domino affect or really
impacts so many other people in so many other ways. That is the various
reasons I would like to see this, I am not looking for this project to be
voted down or to specific conditions at this time but I'd rather see it tabled
so that it can be worked out. Thank you.
Hoover: Is there any other member of the public that would like to address this
Conditional Use?
Hudson: I'm Dr. Lloyd Hudson, I have the property downstream from this. This is
a situation that seems to be angled, I think it can be worked out very well
but it could be a catastrophe if it is not done right. What we have is a
Corp. of Engineer wetland and a wild foul feeding station and we are
feeding a lot of wild foul at this time and this is going to be a permanent
thing. We have worked with this ten years. It could easily destroy the
whole thing if it is done poorly. He has got plenty of land there to build a
house on but he just has to put it in the right place so the runoff will not
impact anything else. I think what we are doing is we are just getting a
little bit early here. We can step back, talk it over with the neighbors with
your designer and your architect and put the house where it won't bother
anybody else. You can easily do that, there is plenty of land there. My
suggestion is to confirm what you just heard that it could potentially do a
great deal of harm but if it is done right it should work out very well.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any other member of the public? We will bring it
back to the Commission. Matt, would you address the runoff issues?
Casey: Yes Ma'am. When Mr. Jorgensen submits the construction plans for the
water and sewer extension that are required for this Lot Split to occur we
will require that he shows on those plans the minimum erosion control
requirements that he is proposing to limit the sediment runoff to leave the
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March 8, 2004
Page 59
site. That is something that we can require on any construction plans and
we will be looking for it on this in detail. Also, the construction of the
home itself, while it does not require a grading permit and a formal
grading plan to be submitted, it does have to meet our minimum erosion
control requirements. At the time of building permit application they are
required to sign a paper that has the list of all those and acknowledge the
fact that they do have to meet those. The City Engineer's office does have
the authority to enforce those and issue a stop work order if things are not
complied with and also direct our Transportation Division to go out and
actually cleanup items that are not addressed if the applicant or the person
that holds the permit does not do that and then we will charge them for the
work that is done. There are several items that we have in place that we
can ensure the construction of either the water and sewer line or the home
not impact the neighbors.
Hoover: Thank you. Comments?
Bunch: Matt, as a clarification on what you just described, since this is a
Conditional Use, we can require the next level up of erosion control.
Normally in RSF-4 there are minimal measures that are taken but since
this is a Conditional Use if we were to require a grading permit how would
we state it to take it up to the next level of assurance with silt fence and
bails and that sort of thing. What would be required for us to state a
condition describing that?
Casey: The minimum erosion control requirements would be the same regardless
of whether we have a permit issued or not for a grading permit. Those are
just a part of the checklist that we have established for issuing a permit.
That would be in place regardless for the construction of the water and
sewer line we will require that on their construction plans as well. If it
pleases the condition you can add a condition of approval that a formal
grading permit and grading plan be submitted for construction of that
single family home. Normally it is exempt because it is not located within
a 100 -year floodplain and it is not located on a slope of 15% or more.
Bunch: Thank you.
Jorgensen: May I add something? Regarding the request, I think it would be without
any problem proper to ask for this erosion control. In fact, that's my
recommendation to the owner, Travis Wood and he agrees that it is a real
good idea. If for any reason other than just being neighborly. My
recommendation, and I did talk to Harvey Smith about this, is to put in a
sedimentation pond, several rows of silt fence below the pond and above
the pond in addition to several rows of hay bails. In other words, a real
thorough and complete erosion control plan to help minimize any
problems that occur downstream at all. I think it is one of those things that
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 60
would be very proper to have this in place prior to this house construction
taking place. Travis has gone to great lengths to talk to Mr. Smith and
also the Ozark Regional Land Trust. Naturally we are real happy that the
Trust has that property over there and perpetual greenspace. It is fantastic,
very nice space. We sure don't want to do any damage to it. We are in
keeping with low density plans right here. This is two houses per 14 acres
I would say that's low density. Mr. Slone has been contacted and he is not
interested in additional contributions to this land trust so I guess that kind
of clears up that little issue right there.
Smith: Not just where his house is but there is another side of drainage that the
city is requiring them to, how far from the road is that house?
Jorgensen: That would be probably 500' or 600'.
Smith: There are utilities running up to the house and when they put those in there
was a runoff problem from that which is totally on another side that can be
a problem. When they did that, there was a minimum of 12 big oak trees
that were killed. I am wondering if there is any way that they can utilize
the existing sewer line so that all that doesn't have to cause another
disturbance too. There is water and sewer running up there and if they
could utilize what's there instead of having to run all those other lines.
Hoover: Matt, can you respond to that?
Casey: One of the items that we look at with Lot Splits is that each lot has access
to public water and sewer and that is what the applicant has proposed in
this case to extend both the water and sewer to be able to serve this tract 1
with a new house. As far as utilizing the existing line, the existing line is a
service line and two structures cannot be hooked to the same service line,
it has to go directly to a main.
Jorgensen: I would think we could run parallel to the existing service line with the
new sewer and avoid knocking down any new trees. The damage is done
there so we might as well go ahead and utilize that same route so we can
minimize the removal of any trees.
Ostner: This is a question for staff. We don't often see a Conditional Use for
someone just to build a house except for the frontage issue it seems like in
my mind I'm just trying to picture if they decided we don't want to do a
Conditional Use, we want to extend the road so both houses have frontage
then we wouldn't be seeing this issue, is that a fair statement?
Warrick: That is correct.
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March 8, 2004
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Ostner: Basically, the only reason we're seeing this is they would like to keep that
private drive the way it is and not extend public right of way?
Warrick: They would have the option and the ability to build a city street to provide
a lot that has a minimum of 70' of frontage, 8,000 sq.ft. of land area.
Then, you are correct, it would not be a Conditional Use, it would be a use
permitted by right in the zoning district.
Anthes: I want to thank the applicant for offering the thorough and complete
erosion control plan with sediment pond, hay bails and silt fence in order
to be a good neighbor to the Ozark Regional Land Trust and to Dr. Smith.
I have a question, do we feel like the grading permit is something that is
necessary with those protections being offered from the applicant?
Casey:
Ostner:
Church:
Casey:
MOTION:
If we could change that requirement from a grading plan to a storm water
pollution prevention plan.
I was going to make a motion but I'm not sure I can phrase it with the
added provisos. Don Bunch?
Is the storm water pollution prevention plan the same as the erosion
control plan or are those different?
They are basically the same.
Church: I will make a motion to approve CUP 04-09.00 with the six conditions of
approval and the additional seventh one to require a storm water pollution
prevention plan.
Shackelford: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Church and a second by
Commissioner Shackelford, is there anymore discussion?
Anthes: Can we ask the motioner to add that the water and sewer lines would run
parallel to the existing lines without disturbing additional trees and land?
Church: Sure.
Shackelford: That's fine.
Hoover: Is there anymore discussion? Renee?
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 62
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CUP 04-09.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 63
RZN 04-03.00: Rezoning (McCord/Fitzgerald, pp 398) was submitted by James
McCord, Attorney, on behalf of Donald and Frances Fitzgerald for property located at the
northwest comer of Wedington Drive and 51" Avenue. The property is currently zoned
R -A, Residential Agricultural, and contains 1.51 acres. The request is to rezone the
property to RSF-4, Residential Single-family, 4 units per acre.
Hoover: Item number ten on the agenda is RZN 04-03.00 for property at the
northwest corner of Wedington Drive and 51s` Avenue.
Morgan: This property, is as you mentioned, located on 51s` Street, a local street
and Wedington Drive, a principal arterial and contains approximately 1.50
acres. Surrounding properties contain single family homes with a church
located to the east of the site across 51 s` Street. The property is currently
zoned R -A, Residential Agricultural and the applicant is requesting to
rezone this property to RSF-4, Residential Single Family, four units per
acre. In recent actions the Planning Commission has approved the
rezoning request for the two properties immediately north of this tract,
rezoning from R -A to RSF-4. The applicant is proposing to divide the
subject property to provide for three single family lots with future action.
Staff finds that the proposed zoning is compatible with the land use
planning objectives in accordance with the General Plan 2020 and this
area is currently developed with single family dwellings and this request is
consistent with the recent rezonings and development approvals in this
area. In order to develop this property a different zoning designation is
necessary. In an R -A zoning district only one single family home is
permitted on a minimum of two acres. This lot is less than two acres. It is
also the opinion that this rezoning will not substantially alter the
population density and therefore, be undesirable for traffic congestion and
emergency service vehicles. Therefore, staff is recommending approval of
the requested rezoning.
Hoover: Would the applicant come forward?
McCord: I am Jim McCord, representing the applicants. As staff pointed out, the
requested rezoning is consistent with the city's Future Land Use Plan, it is
consistent with land use in the area and it is consistent with rezonings that
the Planning Commission and City Council have approved in the area.
For those reasons the applicants respectfully request approve of the
rezoning.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any member of the audience who would like to
address this RZN 04-03.00? Seeing none, I will bring it back to the
Commission.
Bunch: Seeing that the proposed RZN 04-03.00 is consistent with previous actions
that have been taken and the various documents in the City of Fayetteville,
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March 8, 2004
Page 64
I move that we recommend to the City Council for approval RZN 04-
03.00.
Ostner: I will second.
Hoover: We have a motion by Commissioner Bunch and a second by
Commissioner Ostner, is there anymore discussion? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 04-03.00 was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 65
RZN 04-02.00: Rezoning (Chance & Tuggle, pp 436) was submitted by Geoffrey Bates
of Keystone Consultants, Inc. on behalf of David Chance and John Tuggle for property
located at W. Tackett and Genevieve Avenue. The property is zoned R -A, Residential
Agricultural, and contains approximately 7.94 acres. The request is to rezone the subject
property from R -A, Residential Agricultural, to RSF-4, Residential Single-family, 4 units
per acre.
Hoover: Item number eleven is RZN 04-02.00 for property located at West Tackett
and Genevieve Avenue.
Pate: The Commissioners may recognize this property has been before us
several times in a couple of different requests. The current request is to
rezone the subject 7.94 acres from R -A to RSF-4, Single Family
Residential, four units per acre. Just as a reminder, the property is located
in west Fayetteville. It is currently vacant. Surrounding neighborhood
varies from one to two acre lots to larger with the exception of a couple of
different zonings within the vicinity that is a little more dense, RMF -6 and
RMF -12 north of Wedington Drive. The applicant has indicated the intent
to develop a single family residential subdivision on the subject property.
Again, the request is to rezone the property to RSF-4. The first request in
November, 2003 was to rezone the property to RT -12. The second request
was an R-PZD allowing for 50 units. Based on comments at Subdivision
Committee at that time the applicant withdrew that request and has now
submitted the current request. Access to the site is provided by 54`h
Avenue and Tackett Drive and Genevieve Avenue are surrounding streets.
Both of which are substandard and will likely be recommended for
improvements at the time of development of the subject parcel. Staff is
recommending approval of this rezoning request. It is consistent with the
land use plan in this area as a residential use and it is also more consistent
with the existing surrounding land uses.
Hoover: Thank you Jeremy. Would the applicant come forward?
Bates: Good evening Commissioners, I'm Geoff Bates, an engineer with
Keystone Consultants. As Jeremy pointed out, we have been before you
about three times now. The first time was RT -12 and we still wanted 50
units, it would've been 25 duplex lots but RT -12 allowed for 90 and that
made everybody uncomfortable. We went back with a PZD for 25 duplex
lots which would've been 50 units and staff thought that was too much
and none of the adjoining property owners wanted duplexes anywhere
near them so we scrapped the duplex idea, we cut the project in half to 25
single family lots and hopefully we can move forward this time. We have
met with staff, showed them our concept plan, we've met with adjoining
property owners, showed them our concept plan and talked with them and
here we are. If you have any questions I would be more than happy to
answer them.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 66
Hoover: Thank you. At this time we will open up this rezoning to public comment.
Is there anyone who would like to address this one?
Wonnacott: Hi, my name is Melissa Wonnacott, I live at 655 Genevieve. Jeremy had
said that 54`h Street, Genevieve and Tackett would be improved. Do you
know the time schedule on that? Right now one of my fellow neighbors
went and measured the road and 54`h Street is only 16', the narrowest spot
is 16' so I was just curious as to when that might be upgraded. That is my
biggest concern because right now people's kids come around on 54`h
Street to Tackett, they are only required to do their frontage which would
no address the stop sign. There have been times when I've almost hit little
children coming around the stop sign because it is kind of blind and it is
all covered with canopy. I have no problems with single family homes, it
is much better than their initial idea but until the city has a grand scheme
of widening 54`h Street I don't understand how anyone could see that it
would be safe to do this. I don't have a problem with the subdivision as a
whole but you're not looking at the whole scheme. You can't require
them to fix 54"' Street.
Hoover: Jeremy, can you respond to that?
Pate: At the time of development Engineering staff and Planning staff make a
recommendation to the Planning Commission. Most likely we'll see a
Preliminary Plat for a subdivision in this area. At that time offsite
improvements are recommended to the Planning Commission who will
ultimately make that determination. The person who just spoke is right.
Typically those offsite improvements are adjacent to the property to allow
for access. I believe the Engineering staff, with this rezoning we don't
make recommendations for street improvements. However, there are
basic requirements that we look at to ensure that there is access to the site.
I believe there has been a recommendation that for instance we would look
at an asphalt overlay or some type of improvement to get to 54`h. Beyond
that, I don't believe we've looked at anything else.
Hoover: Is there any other member of the public?
Hisell: I'm Don Hisell, I own two parcels of land that adjoins all of this
development. If any of you all would like to see these pictures. That is
the picture of the 54t" that we see from Tackett Road right there looking
north and we're trying to get out on the road. It is 16' at the narrowest
part. If you get down to the bridge it is 30' wide and then it goes back to
18' all the way up to Hwy. 16. I've been there somewhere close to 15
years or better and my wife has been involved in two accidents on 54`h.
Both times she was hit. Cars cannot pull out on 54`h from a side street and
get on their side of the road but drivers seem to think they can. I don't
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 67
have too much problem at all with expanding. I, myself see that that is the
coming future. I would also like to go to New York in a big limo rather
than ride on a motorcycle. We've got acre to two acre lots. All the people
that are living there have wide open spaces and it seems like we are kind
of jammed up if we have this expansion done. The main thing I have in
my mind is what's going to come in the future if we do this. I've got one
picture that I'd like for you to look at and I don't think you really want to
see it from too close up. It brings tears to my eyes. This is my son who
was killed in 1992 hit by a car. This is the main thing we need to keep in
mind. I've got an 11 year old boy. He rides his bicycle down that street.
I have rode my bicycle down that street. You do not want to be caught in
the middle between that bridge and Tackett Road. It puts you in harm's
way.
Hoover: Thank you. Is there any other member of the public that would like to
address this rezoning? Seeing none, I will bring it back to the
Commission.
Ostner: Staff, I understand we're not requiring certain improvements at this time
but on page 11.2 the staff report says "At the time of development on this
site both Tackett and Genevieve would need to be improved to city
standards." Is that the entire length of Genevieve or just the adjoining?
Warrick: That's not been determined. Again, we talk a lot about what will happen
when a property develops when we are talking about zoning because we
know that typically that is going to be the follow up request. That is what
we are going to consider if the Council decides to change the land use
available on a piece of property. What we also have to consider is that
there are certain deficiencies existing in our community right now that we
can't rely on one or two particular developments to cure. The Planning
Commission is charged with placing the requirement for improvements on
and off site for development projects but those improvements have to bear
some sort of nexus or rough proportionality with the amount of impact that
is being caused by that development. That is the balance that we always
have to try and strike when we are dealing with new development verses
existing conditions. Improvements upon existing conditions very well
may be necessary and required because of additional development and
additional impact but it has to bear a rational nexus to the amount of
impact that's being caused by a particular development. We will review
that. We do look at that very seriously when projects come into the
development review cycle and we bring forward to you, the Planning
Commission, our best recommendations for what we feel is appropriate
for infrastructure improvements.
Ostner: Thank you.
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 68
Hoover: Are there other comments?
Bunch: This reminds me of a development that we saw not too long ago on Mt.
Comfort Road where one of the conditions of approval for the
development was the widening of several streets off site to bring them up
to a minimum width. I think it had to do with Rupple, Mt. Comfort
intersection and considerable length of Mt. Comfort that I believe at that
time it was bringing it up to a minimum 18' width. I know on this
particular project we saw it before as a PZD so we had a greater amount of
plans in front of us. This is just a rezoning. I will just remind the
Commissioners that as this does come back we have in the recent past
seen plans for considerable off site work that may have been quite a few
linear feet but may not have been that much asphalt because we are
looking at changing something from 16' to guaranteeing a minimum of
18'. That is the observation I wanted to bring forward at this time.
Hoover: Are there other comments?
Ostner: Madam Chair, the first time I saw this project the baby wasn't even here
yet. I am ready to approve it. I would like to make a motion that we
forward RZN 04-02.00 with a recommendation of approval to the City
Council.
Bunch: Second.
Hoover: There is a motion by Commissioner Ostner and a second by
Commissioner Bunch, is there more discussion? I guess I just want to
make one comment just so the neighbors understand that when the
Preliminary Plat comes through that's when they are going to discuss
these improvements and we hope that you are involved then because
you've made some good points. Right now we are just looking at density
in general. Are there any other comments? Renee?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to recommend approval of
RZN 04-02.00 to the City Council was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thomas: The motion carries nine to zero.
Hoover: Thank you. We have an announcement.
Church: As of Friday I will be moving out of the city limits of Fayetteville so I will
have to resign my position a couple of weeks early because of that.
Hoover: Thank you for your service.
Announcements
Planning Commission
March 8, 2004
Page 69