HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-03-24 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING
OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION
A rescheduled meeting of the City of Fayetteville Planning Commission was held on
March 24, 2003 in room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain at
5:30 p.m.
ITEMS CONSIDERED ACTION TAKEN
VAC 03-4.00: Vacation (BENCORE, pp 523) Forwarded to City Council
Page 3
ADM 03-8.00: Administrative Item (Young, pp 610) Approved
Page 3
ADM 03-9.00: Administrative Item
(Community Christ Church, pp 292) Approved
Page 5
CPL 03-1.00: Concept Plat (Sequoyah Commons, pp 485) Approved
Page 7
LSD 03-8.00: Large Scale Development (Ruby Tuesday, pp 588) Approved
Page 36
LSD 03-9.00: Large Scale Development (Walgreens, pp 523) Approved
Page 42
PPL 03-6.00: Preliminary Plat (Summerbrook Estates, pp 648) Approved
Page 48
ADM 03-11.00: Administrative Item
(Master Street Plan Bridgewater Lane
and Unnamed Minor Arterial)
Page 50
PPL 03-7.00: Preliminary Plat (Bridgewater Estates, pp 219)
Page 52
ADM 03-2.00: Administrative Item
(Master Street Plan -46'h Street, pp 438)
Page 57
Forwarded to City Council
Approved
Forwarded to City Council
PPL 03-1.00: Preliminary Plat (Persimmon Place, pp 438) Approved
Page 59
R-PZD 03-1.00: Planned Zoning District (Jackson Place, pp 255) Forwarded to City Council
Page 66
ADM 03-6.00: Administrative Item (UDO) Forwarded to City Council
Page 72
Report of the Nominating Committee
Page 75
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 2
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT COMMISSIONERS ABSENT
Bob Estes
Alice Church
Lorel Aviles
Lee Ward
Sharon Hoover
Don Bunch
Alan Ostner
Loren Shackelford
Nancy Allen
STAFF PRESENT STAFF ABSENT
Tim Conklin
Dawn Warrick
Sara Edwards
Matt Casey
Renee Thomas
Kit Williams
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 3
Aviles: Welcome to the Monday, March 24, 2003 meeting of the Fayetteville
Planning Commission. Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call there were seven Commissioners present
with Commissioner Ostner arriving at 5:35 p.m. and Commissioner Ward
arriving at 5:40 p.m.
Aviles: We have a lengthy agenda this evening but first I would like you all to
greet our Mayor, Dan Coody.
Coody: I wanted to present a couple of awards this evening for appreciation of all
of you folks that are leaving the Planning Commission. I wanted to say
thanks to the Chair, Lorel. The people don't know how much work the
Planning Commission gets involved in. The folks who run for the City
Council and get elected to City Council don't know what a real job is.
You guys do it. It is this Commission that basically sees to it how
Fayetteville unfolds into the future and this is a dramatically important
committee and we certainly appreciate all of your efforts. If you will
please let Lee know, I am assuming he is coming tonight. If you would
give this to Lee for me I would appreciate it Thank you all very much for
all of your contributions.
VAC 03-4.00: Vacation (BENCORE, pp 523) was submitted by Geoffrey Bates of
Keystone Consultants on behalf of BENCORE for property located at the northeast
corner of 6th Street and S. School Avenue. The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare
Commercial and contains approximately 0.076 acres. The request is for an alley
vacation.
ADM 03-8.00: Administrative Item (Young, pp 610) was submitted by Chris Young
for property located at 5635 E. Huntsville Road. The property is zoned C-1,
Neighborhood Commercial and contains approximately 2.5 acres. The request is to
appeal certain conditions of approval for CUP 03-3.00.
Aviles: I know that I can speak for Lee too and say that we have both been privy
and honored to serve on this Planning Commission. Thank you very much
again. You are welcome to stay. We have a lengthy agenda this evening.
The first two items are consent items. First is VAC 03-4.00 for
BENCORE properties located at the northeast corner of 6th Street and S.
School Avenue. This property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial
and contains approximately 0.76 acres. The request is for an alley
Vacation. The second item is ADM 03-8.00, which is an Administrative
Item submitted by Chris Young for property at 5635 E. Huntsville Road.
This property is zoned C-1, Neighborhood Commercial and contains
approximately 2.50 acres. The request is to appeal certain conditions of
approval for CUP 03-3.00. Is there any Commissioner that would like to
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 4
discuss this and remove any of these items from the consent agenda? Is
there any member of the public that would like to address us on these
items before we vote on them?
Shackelford: I will make a motion for approval of the consent agenda.
Hoover: I will second.
Aviles: There is a second by Commissioner Hoover. Renee, would you call the
roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the consent agenda
was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Approval of the Minutes
Aviles: Let the record reflect that Commissioner Ostner is now present. The next
thing we will do is consider a motion for approval of the minutes for the
March 10, 2003 meeting.
Allen: I move for approval of the minutes.
Church: I will second it.
Aviles: Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve the minutes of
March 10, 2003 meeting was approved by a vote of 8-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 5
ADM 03-9.00: Administrative Item (Community Christ Church, pp 292) was
submitted by Dan Ferguson of Atlas Construction on behalf of Community of Christ
Church located at 2715 N. Old Wire Road. The property is zoned R-1, Low Density
Residential and contains approximately 3.10 acres. The request is to appeal certain
conditions of approval for CUP 03-2.00.
Aviles: The first item of new business this evening is ADM 03-9.00 for
Community Christ Church submitted by Dan Ferguson of Atlas
Construction on behalf of Community Christ Church and located at 2715
N. Old Wire Road. The property is zoned R-1, Low Density Residential
and contains approximately 3.10 acres. This request is to appeal certain
conditions of approval for CUP 03-2.00. Sara or Dawn?
Warrick: The Community of Christ Church applied for a Conditional Use that was
heard by the Planning Commission at the March 3`d Planning Commission
meeting. That item was approved at that meeting with condition number
four, payment of $4,500 in lieu of installation of the required sidewalk.
The applicant at that meeting did put the Planning Commission and staff
on notice that they had decided to appeal that condition. Staff, with that
information, went back to re -look at this required sidewalk item. There is
a section under the sidewalk ordinance that allows for discretion with
regard to rough proportionality when applying the requirement for
installation of a sidewalk or a contribution in lieu of the sidewalk
installation. Staff did review that and made findings, which are found in
your agenda packet on pages 3.1 through 3.3. With that information staff
has recommended a reduced contribution based on the type of use and the
amount of improvement, addition that is being proposed with this
development and staff is now recommending that that assessment for
contribution in lieu of sidewalk installation be reduced to the amount f
$642.86.
Aviles: Thank you very much Dawn. Is the applicant present? Please come
forward and give us your names and the benefit of your presentation
please.
Nugent: I am Jeff Nugent, Pastor of Community of Christ Church.
Collier: Kelley Collier, I am on the building committee for the Community of
Christ Church.
Aviles: Do you have a presentation or do you want to answer questions after I
have taken public comment?
Nugent: No, the only thing I think we wanted to say is that we would accept the
staff recommendation of $642.86. That would be fine with us.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 6
Aviles: Is there any member of the public that would like to address us on this
item? Seeing none, I will bring the discussion back to the Commission
and to the applicant.
Motion:
Estes: I move for approval of ADM 03-9.00 in accordance with staff's
recommendation and based upon the consent of the applicant.
Aviles: I have a motion for approval by Commissioner Estes.
Bunch: Second.
Aviles: And a second by Commissioner Bunch. Is there any additional
discussion? Let the record reflect that Commissioner Ward is here. Is
there any additional discussion?
Hoover: I would like to make one comment on some of these sidewalks. On this
one I will definitely be voting for this because they are not adding any
more use to their facility. They won't be adding to the congregation, it is
just a classroom for the existing congregation and since they haven't
added anymore people, when we are looking back at this trip generation
and trying to figure out proportionality of bow much impact this is going
to have on the sidewalks, I would say that in this case it doesn't. I am glad
that we are looking at it on a case by case basis.
Aviles: Thank you Commissioner Hoover. Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 03-9.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 7
CPL 03-1.00: Concept Plat (Sequoyah Commons, pp 485) was submitted by Mandy
Bunch of EB Landworks on behalf of Greg House of Houses Development for property
located between Olive Avenue & Fletcher Avenue, south of Spring Street. The property
is zoned R-2, Medium Density Residential and contains approximately 2.06 acres with 39
dwelling units proposed (48 bedrooms).
Aviles: Fourth on our agenda tonight is CPL 03-1.00 for Sequoyah Commons
submitted by Mandy Bunch of EB Landworks on behalf of Greg House of
Houses Development for property located between Olive Avenue &
Fletcher Avenue, south of Spring Street. The property is zoned R-2,
Medium Density Residential and contains approximately 2.06 acres with
39 dwelling units proposed (48 bedrooms). Sara, can you give us the staff
report?
Edwards: Yes. The proposal is for seven buildings, a total of 39 dwelling units. The
request is for approval of a Concept Plat. In the event that this Concept
Plat is approved the project will be resubmitted as a Large Scale
Development and reviewed in detail with regard to code compliance.
Parking required is 48 spaces. They are proposing 58 spaces with 9 on
street on Olive Street. Right now there is right of way existing on Olive,
60'. There is 30' of right of way for Center and 60' of right of way for
Fletcher which is existing to the east of the site. Their proposal is that
Olive be constructed along the entire property line with a width of 28' in
front of the property. 20' for driving lanes and 8' for parking stalls. In
addition, they are proposing to widen Olive to Spring Street to 20' in
width and proposing a cost share for a 4' sidewalk along the east side of
Olive. Access proposed is solely through Olive Avenue. Tree
preservation, right now it is 100% covered, they are preserving 20.17%
and 20% is the requirement in this district. We do not have signed
conditions of approval.
Aviles: I will read those in just a second. There are 13 conditions of approval, 8
through 13 are standard conditions. I would just like to say something
about this process. Normally we do not see concept plats. It is my
understanding that this is being done as a courtesy because the street
connection is a very important item in the design of the project and the
developer did not wish to go further with the project before he knew
whether the street would be required to be connected, which is the staff's
recommendation. Tim, would you edify us on this?
Conklin: I do realize this is something that you typically do not see at this level.
We have been working on this project for quite some time now and the
issue has been with regard to the question of should Olive Street be
extended with a connection of Center Street down to Walnut. Staff was
recommending that that street connection be made as part of this project.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 8
The applicant wanted some assurance of would that connection be
required by the Planning Commission. They are looking for a
recommendation of whether or not the Commission is going to support
staff with that recommendation to extend Olive and build that part of
Center Street. If that is a decision that is made they will go ahead and do
their preliminary engineering on that to determine how to construct those
improvements to make that connection. They do not want to go forward
and do a lot of engineering if that street was not going to be required. As
Ms. Edwards stated, their proposal is not to make that connection through
down to Walnut.
Aviles: So I can make sure that I can scope the discussion properly, other than the
conditions of approval, which I am about to read into the record, the issue
that we are discussing here this evening is the street connection.
Conklin: The street connection and they have modified their site plan to address
some of the concerns of the neighbors. I would expect that they would
probably share that information with you also.
Aviles: Has it been modified since agenda session?
Conklin: No.
Aviles: Ok, thanks Tim. I am going to read these conditions of approval.
1) Planning Commission determination of required offsite improvements
and required access. Olive is currently substandard. It is only 18 feet wide
and does not meet state fire code. With the allowance of on street parking
two-way traffic cannot be accommodated. The pavement and sub -base is
failing and can likely not accommodate construction traffic. The site has
access to Fletcher but no access point is proposed. Right-of-way for
Center exists adjacent to the site and south to Walnut. Staff is
recommending the construction of Center Street from Walnut to Olive
Street and Olive Street adjacent to the site with waivers from the minimum
street standards if necessary. 2) Approval shall be subject to the vacation
of a 15 foot existing utility easement, which runs north/ south through the
property. 3) A 10 foot utility easement shall be granted on both sides of
the existing 30 foot water line, which is required for maintenance of the
line. 4) All buildings will be required to meet increased setbacks based on
height where applicable. 5) Lighting shall not encroach onto adjacent
properties. A lighting plan shall be submitted and approved by staff prior
to installation. 6) Any damage to Olive Street by construction traffic will
be repaired at the developer's expense. 7) Planning Commission
recommendation of the requested cost share for sidewalk construction
along Olive. The developer proposes a sidewalk along Olive from the
project site to Spring Street and has requested a cost share. 8) Plat
Review and Subdivision comments (to include written staff comments
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 9
provided to the applicant or his representative, and all comments from
utility representatives. 9) Staff approval of final detailed plans,
specifications and calculations (where applicable) for grading, drainage,
water, sewer, fire protection, streets (public and private), sidewalks,
parking lot(s) and tree preservation. The information submitted for the
plat review process was reviewed for general concept only. All public
improvements are subject to additional review and approval. All
improvements shall comply with City's current requirements. 10)
Payment of parks fees in the amount of $14,625 (39 units @ $375) 11)
Sidewalk construction in accordance with current standards to include a
minimum four foot sidewalk along Olive. 12) Large scale development
shall be valid for one calendar year. 13) Prior to the issuance of a
building permit the following is required: a. Grading and drainage
permits; Separate easement plat for this project that shall include the tree
preservation area; Project Disk with all final revisions; Completion of all
required improvements or the placement of a surety with the City (letter of
credit, bond, escrow) as required by §158.01 "Guarantees in Lieu of
Installed Improvements" to guarantee all incomplete improvements.
Further, all improvements necessary to serve the site and protect public
safety must be completed, not just guaranteed, prior to the issuance of a
Certificate of Occupancy; Parks fees paid and/or deed recorded and copy
received. Is the applicant present?
Bunch: I have a question on condition number three. It shows an existing 30 foot
waterline, is that a typo?
Edwards: That should be a 30 inch water line.
Shackelford: In the past I have recused from Planning Commission actions involving
Greg House due to a business relationship. At this point I don't have any
commercial relationship with Greg House currently. After visiting with
our City Attorney, Mr. Williams bas indicated that I need not recuse from
this if I didn't want to. My plans were to hear this and vote on it if no
other member of the Planning Commission had an issue with that.
Aviles: Thanks for letting us know. Commissioners, are there any questions? I
appreciate it Commissioner Shackelford. Is the applicant present?
House: Yes Ma'am. Good evening, I am Greg house for those of you who don't
know me. I represent Houses Development Company. Actually I am a
little bit in the dark about what we are doing tonight because I thought we
were kind of going forward with most of the concept, not just the issue of
the street. I thought this would be part of the overall process that the
concept plat was related to density and issues other than technical things
like tree preservation, landscaping, and drainage. Maybe I'm mistaken.
We came prepared for most of the discussion rather than just the
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 10
discussion of the connectivity. Am I wrong in that Tim?
Conklin: The primary issue is access which is when we met with Mr. House,
concerns about spending a lot of money designing and engineering a street
connection. Also, as I thought I stated earlier, has presented a concept
design which has moved some buildings and added some parking and my
understanding is it has been seven buildings, 39 units, that really hasn't
changed. Once again, there may be some other issues that we will discuss
this evening.
Aviles: I think the concept plat is rather as a favor to the developer because if your
plan had been submitted without the street connection it likely would've
been disapproved on that basis. That being the main point we will be
discussing that in detail this evening. I believe Tim, at agenda session,
said that you have met other ordinance requirements regarding density and
so forth as they exist in R-2 zoning. The traffic is an issue that we will be
discussing.
Conklin: That is correct. With regard to the density issue, that is a zoning issue.
This is zoned R-2 so it is really not something that should be discussed as
part of this development. What we are discussing is access to the
development and other development ordinances. The primary issue that
we have been discussing with the applicant is with regard to what is
appropriate for access to this site should there be a street connection,
should Olive Street be extended. You are within an historic platted area.
Rights of way exist. Connections may be possible if you complete out the
grid system. Staff recommended looking at how to develop some of this
connectivity, street connections in areas that were not very steep like you
see in other areas. Center Street going north up to Fletcher, staff did not
recommend that at this time. Center Street south of Olive to Walnut from
my observation out there, it does look like vehicles have traveled a gravel
drive in the past so it is possible to drive on it today. I would like to note
that it would require a variation in our minimum street standards in order
to make this connection. The larger policy issue that I have discussed with
Mr. House and his engineer is this area is zoned R-2. We are seeing
increased density being built in this area. If this area is increased from
two units per acre to 20 units per acre what kind of street network do we
need in the future? What type of connectivity do we need in the future?
We have an existing grid pattern, right of way that was recorded and
platted. Do we as a city complete that grid pattern and make those
connections with the idea that this may develop with multi -family as we
are seeing, this may develop as single-family regardless of whether it is
multi -family or single-family, urban design principles traditional houses
are along streets. Do you want to complete the street network? With
regard to the overall design, once again, modifications have been made
with regard to building location placement and parking.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 11
Aviles: Those are in conformance with city ordinances. What I would like to do is
to focus our discussion this evening in terms of the discussion. I think that
we have a large issue in front of us in terms of offsite improvements and
what Houses Incorporated is willing to do with regard to cost sharing on
that and that the access is the issue that we need to address on this if we
are meeting the other ordinances and design standards, lets not waste
everybody's time. We have got a lot of people here tonight. Can I see a
show of hands if you are here with the public to address us on this concept
plat. We are going to hear from everyone. I would like to be very clear
on what I am asking the applicant and the public to address. That is the
offsite improvements, the access to the site, and the implications for cost
sharing. Since we have a lengthy agenda tonight and this only number
four of fourteen if you could keep your comments short, to the point, and
try to avoid repetition we would certainly appreciate that. Mr. House
would you like to continue with your presentation?
House: Yes. Thank you Madam Chair. I understand and it will cut my
presentation down considerably. To paraphrase, we are talking about
offsite improvements, access to the site, and the cost sharing. First let me
begin by stating that the plan that we submitted originally as part of the
Large Scale Development process was submitted meeting all of the
requirement of the UDO, city street standards and international fire code.
That plan is the plan without connectivity to Center Street. Let me say
that again, the plan that we submitted meets all of the requirements of the
UDO, the city street standards, and the international fire code. That is
why we feel it is not necessary to connect to Center Street from a legal
perspective. If the city feels that it is necessary for other policy
considerations like what is going to happen on the hill in the future, we are
not opposed to that. The question is how do we pay for it. Is it incumbent
upon our company to have to pay for the development of a street that is
not adjacent to this property, that is not necessary for the development of
this property because the rest of the hill is going to get developed in the
future. While I agree it may help ease the burden of some traffic out on
Olive because a connection to Center Street would theoretically provide
another access, many property owners would benefit from that besides
ours. I understand there is a theory called rational nexus, which is hard for
me to get my hands around and I am a lawyer. I have asked my engineer
to do a rational nexus study to determine what share should be ours, how
the improvement of Center Street would benefit our project. Mandy
Bunch of EB Landworks in conjunction with a traffic study by Ernie
Peters out of Little Rock have come up with an estimate and a percentage
that they deem is the amount of benefit to our property by the
improvement to Center Street. It is amazingly enough, a pretty small
number. That was submitted in the packet that we gave the Planning staff
the first of last week. Hopefully it is in your packet. It would be a letter
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 12
from EB Landworks to Tim Conklin dated March 17th if I can direct your
attention to it. In that letter Ms. Bunch talks about how much her estimate
is of cost, vehicle trips per day, and what the percentage of our impact
would be and it is fairly minimal, something around 2%. This is
supported by a study by Ernie Peters that did a traffic analysis and the
whole report is probably in your file as well. This is based on Olive being
a local street and the city street standards define a local street as two 10'
lanes. Olive, as it exists, is 18' to 20' wide so it has two 10' traffic lanes.
We have proposed in our submittal to make sure Olive is 20' wide for
those areas that it is not to meet the local street standards. Supposedly
somebody has figured out that that takes 4,000 trips per day. Mr. Peters
has stated after his study in conjunction with some city studies for this
area, that our trips are going to be approximately 297, let's call it 300
trips per day on Olive so as you can see it is not huge just going in and out
of Olive without even going out Center Street. The impact of the traffic
that we are going to create on Olive is less than 10% of the allowed traffic
as it exists. Basically, rather than belabor you with all of the stuff that we
have already submitted, we have made our argument in all of the stuff that
we submitted that access to the site is reasonable as it is but we are willing
to help pay for Center is that is determined necessary. The offsite
improvements, we have already submitted that we would do a new street
from the existing portion of Olive to Center. Our original plan was to just
have a cul-de-sac at the entrance to our property but in the spirit of
compromise with the Planning Department we agreed to pave all of Olive
so that the potential of connectivity could be done now or in the future. I
guess I will ask to see if anyone as any questions. If that is all that we are
talking about, I can talk about density and having met with the neighbors
and all of our agreements with the neighbors and all of that.
Aviles: We are just going to limit the discussion to access and your participation
in offsite improvements. Should you be required to extend the street, have
you come up with a figure that you would be willing to participate in for
that?
House: We have submitted that it is 2% of the total cost and the estimates are it is
going to cost approximately $100,000, I think the real number is $94,000.
I guess we would have to put some sort of cap on it in the event that it cost
$300,000 but that is what we have submitted based on the engineering.
That is for the Center portion. We will already have quite a bit of money
in the rest of Olive but that is for the Center Street portion.
Aviles: Thanks Mr. House. I see that there are members of the public that would
like to address us. Come on up, tell us your name, where you live, and
give us the benefit of your opinion. As I said, if you could keep it to the
point of access we would appreciate that.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 13
Caulk:
Aviles:
Conklin -
I am Bob Caulk. I live on Missouri Way and I am here speaking on behalf
of the Mount Sequoyah South Neighborhood Association. The only thing
I had to say that was on this point was in the package that the city had they
talked about waivers from minimum street standards as appropriate. I
don't know what that means but it scares me anytime I see us talking
about building a new street anywhere in the town of Fayetteville and
talking about building it to less than the minimum street standards.
Thanks Sir. Tim, do you want to talk to us about that before we hear from
the next person?
Our current street standards probably would not allow Mount Sequoyah to
be built as it is today. The question is you have got a platted annequated
subdivision plat, not just Mount Sequoyah, I would say areas surrounding
downtown Fayetteville also. Do you go ahead and complete out those
street connections and develop those neighborhoods and if not, what are
we going to do? Are we going to allow development to occur at the edge
of where these streets exist and develop it to R-2 without any additional
streets being built in these historic areas of Fayetteville. The question is
with regard to waiving the minimum street standards within reason is it
possible to make some of these connections within this area? Fayetteville
would not look like Fayetteville today if we utilized our street standards
that we have on the books today. You would not have Mount Sequoyah or
some of the streets in downtown Fayetteville.
Aviles: Right, because of steep grades. If we built Center it would be possibly
steeper than the transportation manual would require but as flat as we
could get it, is that the right term?
Conklin: The grade right there, I don't have that exact number. Matt may be able to
help me out here a little with regard to the radius coming off of Olive to
Center, that could possibly be an issue, the cross section being 20' wide
verses 28' wide. A lot of engineering hasn't been done so I am not sure of
every waiver that would be required. That area right there is not as steep
as other areas on Mount Sequoyah that already have streets built.
Aviles: Thanks Mr. Conklin. Would the next person that would like to address us
come forward, give us your name, and tell us where you live and give us
the benefit of your opinion.
Vick:
Good afternoon, I am Al Vick, 514 E. Rock. I have a couple of
concerns as far as access, maybe three as a matter of fact. One of them is
we are talking about extending Center Street. There are people that live so
close right now to where Center Street would be and where it would be
extended and paved that they would almost be able to literally stick their
hands out the window and have the traffic go by and hit them. I believe
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 14
that some of those people are here this evening, but I will let them speak
for themselves. That is one concern. Another concern with both the idea
of Olive Street being extended into that cul-de-sac and the extension of
Center Street, I don't know how many of you are aware of this but that
whole area from the 1920's until I have been lead to understand around
1960, that area was a landfill, it was a dump. I am wondering if there have
been any studies so far in terms of what is under that ground over there
before all of this gets turned over and various chemicals and things might
be let lose that would expose people in the neighborhood to. Also, with
the creek running right by where that cul-de-sac is, it is a dry creek now
but it wasn't. There was a spring that led into it until it was bulldozed and
clogged up but the water does run into tin pan creek or whatever that creek
is that crosses by Willow Street and Rock. There are new federal
regulations that are soon going into effect in terms of storm water runoff.
I am wondering when we are talking access and when we are talking about
extending these things have there been studies done about that, about the
landfill situation and about the water.
Aviles: Thank you. As we hear back from the applicant we will try to address
those.
Vick: Ok, but you will answer those questions?
Aviles: We will sure try.
Vick: Ok, I think they are important. Thank you.
Aviles: Thank you. Next?
Brown: I am Jennifer Brown. I live on the corner of Fletcher and Dickson and I
am speaking on behalf of my concern and another concerned citizen of
Fayetteville who does not live in that area but who has been expressing
deep concern about the sewer backups during heavy usage and also heavy
rains. My question is would the offsite improvements, has that been
looked into whether or not this particular site is going to be able to handle
the extra sewage because our sewer system has backed up during heavy
rain and heavy usage and when I take walks up to Oklahoma Way I smell
raw sewage and I have for years and I have reported it to the city a number
of times. I don't know that it has been fixed but it is right across the street
from where Greg House lives. I am not sure that our mountain side can
handle anymore sewage. I am wondering if that has been addressed.
Aviles: Do you have any questions about the traffic access?
Brown: You said offsite improvements and this is offsite.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 15
Aviles: I was limiting that to traffic and so forth. We can answer your question
about the sewage. Matt, if you will explain about that.
Casey: I did look into the sewer situation for this area and the area that she is
speaking of that is having problems is in a separate main line than the
development that we are looking at here. The development area for this
main have not had any problems lately.
Brown: But will they is the question.
Aviles: The city has the new sewer plan in process and every developer is put on
notice that if there is not sufficient capacity for the development that no
further taps can occur. I just wanted to say that this is not really the point
of this concept plat. Did you have any other things that you would like to
talk about the traffic or anything? I see Mr. Earnest in the back. Hugh,
would you like to come up and say something?
Earnest: No, I was just pointing, I'm sorry.
Aviles: Ok, we are still taking public comment so don't be shy. Come up and tell
us your name and address.
Chaddick: My name is Susan Chaddick and I live on the corner of Spring Street and
Olive. I have concerns about the traffic. I think that we are almost
insulting the renters and the neighbors to suppose that there are only going
to be 48 cars or 51 cars that drive back and forth during a days time. We
have seven residences that have people living in them now and Olive
Street as it exists, bears an awful lot of traffic. We have young children
that are walking to the school bus to their schools and it is not a safe
situation at points now with only seven residences. If you add 48
bedrooms and that amount of traffic our little street cannot take it. I regret
having to lobby for the opening for Center Street but I feel if we are going
to allow for a complex of this size to go in then we have to have two
accesses.
Aviles: Thank you very much. Next person please. I will close public comment
here shortly but if there is anyone else that would like to address us about
this development regarding the traffic please come forward. I saw more
hands than people that have come up to speak. We only have one time to
take public comment during while we are hearing an item so it is now or
not.
Gable:
My name is Julie Gable and the reason that I was hesitant is because I
didn't have anything particularly new to add to what Susan Chaddick had
said but I just want to emphasize that I live on 106 N. Olive and the traffic
that we have and the parking situation that we have right now is even more
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 16
than we can take at this point. I just wanted to reiterate what Susan had
said.
Aviles: Thank you Ms. Gable.
Meldrum: I am Carol Meldrum and I currently live at 1501 E. Mission but I am
anticipating moving into the neighborhood of 401 E. Dickson and was
hoping I was moving into a nice, quiet neighborhood in retirement. I do
not believe that the increased traffic going down Dickson Street from
Olive with the complex being developed is going to be what I like. I just
wanted to second those comments.
Aviles: When I close public comment we will hear back from the applicant and
the Commissioners will be discussing back and forth but we will no longer
take any public comment so if anybody has anything else to say now is the
time.
Sinquar: I am Leslie Sinquar, I live at 48 N. Olive Avenue. Based on what Mrs.
Meldrum has said, I would like to reiterate a concern that I had before.
What happens beyond Olive Street at the Spring intersection? It continues
to be substandard. That many cars and to lend support to the point that
Mrs. Chaddick made. It is silly to assume that there are going to be 48
cars at a complex of that size. What happens beyond Spring Street? Olive
is still very narrow and substandard beyond that. Mr. House will be
required to widen Olive and bring it up to standards but with that amount
of traffic and as narrow and steep as Spring is and then as narrow as Olive
is as far as Lafayette and the ditches on either side and my child has had
close calls walking home from school already as it is more than once. I
am also concerned about what this additional traffic will do to the
character and charm of the historic district. Cars will be going through
Sutton, taking shortcuts. The additional traffic there will just completely
destroy the nature and character of our neighborhood.
Aviles: Thank you very much.
Chaddick: I am Buddy Chaddick and am under somewhat duress since I have been
missing these meetings. My wife happens to be Susan Chaddick. This
winter was a typical winter I think in Fayetteville, Arkansas. We had a lot
of snow, as we did in 1981 when Susan and I first moved back up here.
The block or two on Olive Street where the seven or eight houses are,
none of us can park in our driveways when it snows. The only access we
have out is we have to park on the street because we can't get out of our
driveway. The only access we have out is Olive. Driving down Olive we
can't go east or west on Spring Street because we can't get up the
mountain either way so the only access we have is going down Olive.
Now we can't go down Olive because the new apartments on Olive,
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 17
everybody is parked on the street down there so we can't make it through
there. We are at a jam, we can't go to work and most of us work up there.
Another very important aspect of this is we talk about the safety of an 18'
street. I have a 95 year old aunt that lives across the street from us. She
had to go to the emergency room. You should've seen, when you need to
go to the emergency room and you are 95 years old and you can't walk,
you have been wheelchair bound for 40 years, you have to have the Fire
Department come out with a truck. If she had of been in dire straights she
would've been dead. There is no doubt about it. It took them 20 minutes
just to get the truck turned around and then once the fire truck turned
around the complete street was blocked. No one could get around either
side. That is old town up there, that is not new town. That is not a place
to have apartments. That is old town. I think Mr. House referred to one
that he was a lawyer and number two, to the hill. That is not a hill, that is
a mountain. That is a mountain that is meaningful to this area. That is a
mountain that is meaningful to the history of Fayetteville and it needs to
remain as it is.
Aviles: Thank you Sir.
Bryant: I am Jessie Bryant. I am concerned about Center Street because that is
where my house is. I don't really see the need of you opening Center
Street and my other concern is are you going to do the rest of Center Street
all the way up so that it will take the added traffic that is there? If you
open Center Street the way you are talking about you are going to take a
lot of property so what happens there?
Aviles: Tim, can you let us know about the possibility of continuing Center Street
past this? We discussed it a little bit at agenda setting session but I would
like you to go into that.
Conklin: Staff did not make that recommendation to go further east from Olive
based on topography in that area. However, it probably is not impossible
to build a street because there are other streets built on Mount Sequoyah
that have similar slopes. However, we were trying to find something that
as the issue came up of how far do you waive your street standards? In
this section it looked like it was much more feasible to make that
connection between Olive and Walnut. Staff was not making a
recommendation to extend that street at this time.
Aviles: How close would the right of way come to this woman's house?
Conklin: I don't have that answer. There is a 30' right of way for Center Street
existing.
Aviles: Is there anyone else that would like to speak?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 18
Gable:
I am Julie Gable. It looks like the city has done a survey of our street and
put up some markers and my question is where those are sitting on the east
side, is that where the street would go Tim?
Conklin: I am not aware of the city doing a survey.
Gable: Ok, well there are markers up. I guess my question is if they are widening
the street enough to allow traffic to come through and park and sidewalks
from what they have surveyed at this point it looks like I am going to lose
my two trees and it is going to be right up to my deck.
Aviles: We will have Mr. House answer that when he comes back up. Is there
anyone else?
Bryant I am Holly Bryant, 107 N. Olive. I have said many times I am opposed to
this 48 bedroom development because it is not harmonious nor is it
compatible with the existing single-family homes. I have said many times
that I am against this Large Scale Development because of the increased
traffic that it is going to produce. It is going to pose not only traffic
problems but it is going to compromise our safety. What I would like to
express tonight it that I am not opposed to this piece of property being
developed, but I would like to see something built that is in keeping with
the existing structures on the street, with our neighborhood. I feel given
the decisions that need to be made, being in all of our best interests, the
residents on my street, my neighbors that I have met through all of this,
the Planning office, the Planning Commissioners, and for the future of
Fayetteville I would suggest that we table any discussions regarding this
development until we have resolved some of these issues and some of the
concerns that we have. I would like to see us all meet together instead of
us meeting with the Planning office, the neighbors; Mr. House and his
team meet with the Planning office; and everyone kind of dancing around.
I would love for us to all come together and see what kind of compromise
we could come up with that we could all be happy with. I would like to
explore a way that we can allow some development to be built that would
be in keeping with the integrity of this neighborhood and with the charm
of Fayetteville. Thank you.
Aviles: Thank you. Is there anyone else?
Caspick: My name is Joe Caspick, I live on Spring Street in the neighborhood there.
I want to get this right on the physics of this. From what I am gathering,
your engineering people can't guarantee that building Center Street isn't
going to drastically alter that hill or start running into erosion problems,
not only on that street as a whole but on a number of streets on the
mountains around here. I agree with the person who spoke before that
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 19
things should slow down and maybe be tabled until the actual physics of
this kind of development get studied. Can you guarantee me for 20 years
that like the thing that went in with Bobby Schmitt, that in 20 years it is
not going to dig a ditch through our property just from the runoff? Can
that be physically guaranteed? I don't think the physics is done. Thank
you very much.
Aviles: Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to address us on this
Concept Plat? Once I close public discussion we will hear again from the
developer and the Planning Commission and then we will entertain
motions and further discussion. Seeing no one, public discussion is now
closed. Would the applicant or applicants like to come back and answer
some of these questions from the neighbors? Again, let me remind you to
keep your discussion solely to the traffic, offsite improvements, and
access.
House: I thought I would introduce Mandy Bunch as our engineer and as a
member of our team. She is going to address some of the issues that were
just brought up and I may have a few more points when she is done.
Bunch: Good evening, I want to try to address some of the nuts and bolts I guess
as part of this proposal. The traffic study that was done basically
identified that there were 136 trips generated based on the existing
development on Olive. The site generated trips per day in that report was
noted as 161. That leads to a total of 297 cars. One problem that we have
had trying to state traffic issues on this site is that it is not typical. It is not
typical we are going to develop a street that has, as Tim was discussing,
the platted right of ways on all four sides. I have looked at the extension
of Center from Olive to Walnut. The slopes range, I believe that it is
possible based on the GIS topo information available, it is possible to be
within the design constraints as far as slope for that street to extend. One
of our main concerns however, was the width of the right of way. The city
required street section is 28' for a local street and there is 30' of right of
way currently and there is absolutely no way to grade out the side slopes
and I believe it is Ms. Bryant's house, that spoke earlier, that is probably
within 5' of the right of way as it exists now on the south side. Hopefully
that would clear up some of those things. Another issue, when we are
talking about the capacity of the street, everybody keeps throwing around
the word capacity. The capacity of the street is basically a number that is
assigned to cars free flowing on a particular street or width of pavement.
That number is calculated by the width of the street, by the uses adjacent
to that street, by the slope of the street, speed, etc. The best tools that we
have, which is what we have used with our analysis, the best tools that we
have is what we have typically used in the past. Again, this is an Atypical
situation. I think we have all agreed to that. Is basically to use the surface
volume. Thos surface volumes are defined in the street standards by the
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 20
city. Olive Street is classified as a local street. It has two 10' travel lanes
and that is what we believe is there now and it does not allow for parking
on the street and it most likely is not safe to have parking on the street
now. We feel that that should be enforced as a no parking situation since
that is not available for them. If you look at the percentages, I kept trying
to quantify the traffic and using the numbers that we had and we actually
had to dig back to a 1965 highway capacity manual for the analysis of the
width and actually the adjustment factor for the width since we do have
the 10' travel lanes verses 12' travel lanes. That capacity would be a 24%
reduction. Again, that is the only way that we found to quantify that but
using the local surface volume for the street, which is less than 4,000
vehicle trips per day even with 24% reduction that brings us down to
3,000 cars and with the existing traffic plus the site generated traffic we
are still less than 10% of that site volume. We could half it and half it and
half it again and we still wouldn't be close to that. That is part of the
reason of why the traffic engineers have had difficulties in quantifying this
because there is no way to quantify it, the traffic amount is so maniacal. I
think the point here is the connectivity and how the city can assign some
value to that connectivity because that is not typical. That is not typical in
the development, that is not typical in the UDO requirements and that is
not typical rational nexus. I wanted to kind of clear up those numbers and
things for everybody because I know we have had some different things
running around. Also, the international fire code, which the city has
recently adopted, allows one access point in and out as adequate for less
than 100 units. That would be the case. With the construction of Olive
Street that we are proposing it would actually be safer for fire and
emergency vehicles to turn around than it is now. There is absolutely no
way for them to get up and down and around on Olive Street now. Also,
with the new storm water regulations, we are well aware of those and
those relate to water quality and the differentiation of the threshold for the
National Pollution Elimination Discharge System requirements. That is
basically construction runoff, sediment laid and construction runoff. The
city is going to require us to detain on our site. That hasn't happened with
some of the other developments. I believe one that they keep discussing,
that was not required. This will have to have detention on site that will
keep the post developed flows to at or below the pre -developed flows. As
to what would specifically happen on Center Street, etc., that would be up
for design consideration with the staff. As we have through this entire
process, we will cooperate with them. I am here for any questions like
that and I think Greg had a couple of other things.
Aviles: I think there was one other question about the subsurface landfill, do you
know anything about that?
Bunch: I am going to let Greg answer that. I don't believe we know about that.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 21
Aviles: Ok, thanks.
House: If the question is about sub -surface landfill in Center I haven't heard
anything about that. As far as the site that we own, I have had that for
over 15 years and I knew the previous owner and I wasn't aware of any
dumping that was on that site. I think that the city has been doing some
fill at the corner of what would be Center and Olive over the years but I
have never witnessed anything in terms of chemicals or something of that
nature. That is the most I know on that subject. One of the neighbors
asked about the stakes in their yard. As part of our continuing dialogue
with the neighbors we discussed the possibility of widening Olive, which
we objected to because of our traffic counts supporting it as it is but we
wanted the neighbors to see what would happen if Olive did get widened
because there are trees that would be knocked down and stuff right in front
of their current front porches. Many times people aren't aware of just how
drastic something like that can be in an existing neighborhood. That is
what the stakes are, just a visual aid for the neighbors to see some of the
alternatives. Somebody has talked about slowing the process down. We
have been through this process, we have been working with the Planning
Department for probably almost two years and I can go into the history of
how we have talked about connectivity, talked about cul-de-sac, went back
to connectivity, talked about not doing a Large Scale at all. I would rather
not see the process slowed down. I think we have visited this issue quite a
bit with Planning staff and the neighbors. We have met with them
numerous times. We unfortunately can't come to complete terms with the
neighbors. We have come to terms with the neighbors about a lot of
things including increasing the parking on the site and they gave us a list
of conditions that they would like to see, bills of assurance that we were
able to agree with completely. There are a lot of areas we have where we
have had agreement. Unfortunately, we can't have 100% agreement. This
project wouldn't be feasible in anyway shape or form if we did it the way
the neighbors on Olive would like us to do it. Can I answer any other
questions?
MOTION:
Estes:
What is before us is a Concept Plat and it is my understanding that our
decision will be advisory only to the applicant. With that said, and having
studied the material that has been provided to us on the issue of offsite
improvements and connectivity we have three reports from Peters &
Associates, the Traffic Engineers. One is dated November 19, 2002, one
is December 18, 2002, and the last one is March 13, 2003. The underlying
premise of those studies is that Olive Avenue is a local street. It is not.
Olive is currently substandard, it is only 18' wide, it does not meet state
fire codes with the allowance of on -street parking two way traffic can not
be accommodated and the pavement and sub -base is failing. I don't
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 22
believe that either Mr. House or Ms. Bunch would attempt to dissuade us
from the notion that Olive Avenue is a local street. The reason I say that
with some confidence is that Mr. House, in his letter dated March 17, 2003
to this Commission, writes the international fire code recently adopted by
the state of Arkansas allows a 20' wide dead end road to serve apartment
complexes having less than 100 units. The 39 units that we are proposing
does not meet this threshold. I have constructed the entry to the property
in such a way that fire trucks and emergency vehicles can turn around.
Because the underlying presumption is in error, that is that Olive Avenue
is a local street, then all the resulting data is flawed. I am not prepared to
vote on this at this time because what we have before us is an underlying
presumption that is false and resulting data that is in error. It is for that
reason that I am going to make a motion that we refer this back to the
Subdivision Committee.
Aviles: I have a motion for referral back to the Subdivision Committee by
Commissioner Estes. I am going to go ahead and second that.
House: I am not sure where the city staff has gotten information that the street is
18' wide. It is 18' wide in certain points but primarily it is 20' wide and
that is what we pointed out in our letter. We can make the areas that are
less than 20', 20'. The predominant surface is 20' wide and in places
wider than 20'. I disagree with Commissioner Estes' comments that the
underlying presumption is wrong. We feel that because the majority of
the street is 20' wide and there are some portions that may be 19 'h' or
19'3" that that can be remedied with reasonable expense and the issue of
construction traffic and making the street bear construction traffic can be
remedied as well. Unfortunately, the underlying premise is not wrong is
our position.
Aviles: Commissioners, are there any comments? I will explain my second to
this. I do feel that the traffic study is a best imprecise science and that you
are looking at a significant change in the use of Olive Street and the
potential for the extension of Center Street are both things that need to be
looked carefully into.
Bunch, M:
Just a little more information. The classification on Locust Street came
from the Master Street Plan and city staff. That was discussed in detail
with the Traffic Superintendent. That was not a bit of fact that we
assumed on any level. That is just for your information.
Aviles: Thanks. Commissioners, are there any other comments or questions of
Mr. House? We are going to go ahead and vote on this motion and second
that we have. If you have something to say before hand please do.
Ostner: I tend to agree that the mathematics of this situation is very imprecise but
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 23
Shackelford:
Estes:
Shackelford:
Estes:
Shackelford:
it is the best that can be done sometimes. I think our decision is almost
completely separate from these engineering reports. I think it is fairly
simple whether we, as a city, are going to force connectivity as Mr. House
has written. I think the issue that Ms. Chaddick mentioned, she wants
another way out besides the only way being Olive and down to Dickson
and I think it is completely separate from all the measurements and all the
engineering studies. It is a gray area and I don't know whether
Subdivision would help that decision. I think it is a tough decision and I
think it might be the time to make it now. That is my perception of the
current motion.
As I have made points in the past as far as tabling motions, I have always
struggled with that. My underlying belief is we owe the applicant action
on the request. If we are going to table this I would like to ask those that
made the motion and second specifically what are we looking for in a
change or addition to the information that is before us today. What
changes do we hope to see from Subdivision back to this Committee
before we make a decision?
Commissioner Shackelford, I don't know that I can answer your question
with any degree of definition so let me just share with you some of the
things that concern me. What Ms. Bunch and Mr. House have said is
correct. According to the City of Fayetteville Master Street Plan the
service volume of a local street is 4,000 vehicles per day. What they have
done, and I am reading from the Peters and Associates report, therefore,
based on standard capacity calculation procedures there is no capacity
issue for Olive Avenue. Yet, in our conditions of approval prepared by
staff they tell us that Olive is currently substandard, it is only 18' wide, it
does not meet state fire code and so on. The calculations and the
computations made regarding the traffic are based on Olive Avenue being
a local street. I think that is one of the seminole issues. Is Olive Street a
local street or is it not a local street? Staff seems to indicate, they don't
indicate they tell us in the conditions of approval, that it is not. If it is not,
then all of the underlying presumption is wrong and the resulting data is
flawed. That is the seminole issue I believe to determine if Olive Avenue
is a local street.
So you are asking that they recalculate the traffic study based on the actual
measurements of Olive Street as it exists?
I don't think that can be done.
I guess that is my concern. We are tabling this back to Subdivision
Committee, I don't see what work Subdivision Committee is going to be
able to do that provides initial information that changes the overall scheme
as it has been presented to us at this point.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 24
Estes:
Aviles:
Shackelford:
Aviles:
Shackelford:
Conklin -
Shackelford:
Conklin:
Aviles:
Shackelford:
I don't want to do Subdivision's work and I am somewhat hesitant to even
suggest this, but if I was on Subdivision, and I'm not, the first item of
discussion would be whether this applicant needs to build Olive Avenue to
local street standards. I believe, and this is my presumption based upon
reading the material provided by Mr. House is that he has not considered
that. I get that from page 3 of his letter that I read where he says the 39
units that we are proposing does not meet this threshold and tells us that he
has constructed the entry to the property in such a way that fire trucks and
emergency vehicles can turn around. I concluded from that that he is not
proposing to build Olive Avenue to local street standards. You asked
what Subdivision can do. That is the first issue and then other issues
would follow from that.
At agenda session I asked the staff to put together the impact on the
possible extension of Center Street by other properties that would be made
developable or be capable of being developed and they put together as a
supplement to our agenda some information that is broken down into areas
a, b, and c which cumulatively would have the effect of having something
like 140 more units there about, to be able to be developed because the R-
2 zoning that would then go onto Center Street. That consultant didn't
take that into account either and I would say that we are charged as the
Planning Commission to look not only into the developments before us
but the impact that the developments have on the adjoining properties,
what street extensions will do and who will use those. I don't think we
have enough information in front of us tonight to make an informed
decision so that is why I was going to vote to send it back.
Based on that, may I ask a question of staff?
Yes please.
Tim, I apologize, I couldn't tell from my zoning map, the areas that she is
talking about area a, b, and c, are those currently zoned R-2?
Yes.
Ok, and the units, that calculation is based on maximum development of
those locations?
24 units per acre, that is correct.
So if we open that street up then we are not looking at 39 or 48 bedrooms,
we are looking at another possibly 130.
If those properties were developed to their maximum. Under that
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 25
assumption Mr. House could develop more units than what he is putting
on this location.
Hoover: Commissioner Estes, I was at Subdivision and I am concerned also what
more we could have done. Let me ask you this. He is saying that the
street in some areas is already 20', if he did build these to 20' and the fire
protection issues were taken care of, what is your position on the
connectivity with Center Street?
House: Can I answer that?
Estes: The question was for me but you can go ahead and answer for me if you
want to.
Aviles: Let Commissioner Estes go ahead and answer the question and then if you
would like to say something else you are more than welcome to.
Estes: I am not prepared to answer that at this time Commissioner Hoover
because what I see is flawed data based upon an erroneous presumption. I
don't know. How can I tell you my view on connectivity when I don't
know what kind of traffic we are going to be looking at and we don't
know what kind of street we are going to be looking at. I don't know. I
can't vote this concept plat up tonight and I can't vote it down because I
am not going to do either one based on what I perceive as an underlying
presumption that is in error and the resulting data that is flawed. Check
with me in a couple of weeks presuming my motion passes.
Ostner: I have a question for the applicant. Mandy, did you just mention a while
back that you all did a traffic count and the 161 plus the 297 existing and
proposed together, what was that?
House: That is correct. I think I can clarify some of this. In our letter of March
1761 paragraph 5.3 under off-street improvements I specifically state
Houses Inc. will widen Olive Avenue from Spring Street to Center Street
to 20' of asphalt paving anywhere that the width does not exist. We are
saying that we will meet this threshold of a local street. We are prepared
to pay for that. We will meet this threshold of a local street so then, with
that presumption, the 4,000 cars per day rule should apply. The reference
to an earlier thing about the fire code, that is only with respect to turn
around. As the street exists right now it is illegal for the fire code. If we
do it the way we propose then it will be legal for the fire code. Hopefully
that can clarify some of that. I appreciate this is a six page letter and it is
difficult to weed through all of this. That is why we think that we can
meet the traffic issue. It is going to be 20' all the way. Part of it is going
to be wider than 20'. Hopefully that clarifies some of that.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 26
Bunch, M:
I just wanted to clarify that we did some counts and Perry Franklin did
some counts on the area also so those were actual numbers. Also, to
clarify a little further on the traffic study. The traffic study gives its
recommendations based on the improvements that the developer was
making. That traffic study was sanctioned by the developer to give you
the impact of his development on the existing street system. Also, we
were not privied to any of the information that came out after agenda
session. We were not requested at any time to include maximum build out
of that area. Also, I don't think that based on the current development
standards of the city it is possible in any way to develop the hillside to
maximum density.
House: I might add on future development it seems rational that when those
developers come in with their plan then you assess the traffic impact at
that point and if these streets need to be widened because somebody at the
end of Center wants to put in a 100 unit complex then that is incumbent
upon him because they are increasing the density again. If it turns out that
there are just going to be four homes there that is a whole other issue. It
seems to me to try to guess what is going to happen and ask us to pay for it
is not rational.
Estes:
On page one of your March 13th letter you write the existing Olive Avenue
is 18' to 20' wide, which is less than the city standard of 28'. Then you
have referred us over to page four of your letter that says Houses Inc. will
widen Olive from Spring Street to Center Street to 20' of asphalt paving.
Which is it? It is my understanding that the local street standard is 28'.
That is what you write on page one of your letter so over on page four you
say you are going to widen it to 20', wouldn't it still be sub -standard?
House: The old portion would be substandard from a normal street width parking.
The local street code says that a local street is considered two lanes with a
minimum of 10' width. You don't have to have, in order to meet the
traffic portion, you don't have to have 28'. The extra 8' is for parking is
my understanding.
Estes: Mr. Conklin, is Mr. House correct on page one of his letter where he says
the city standard is 28'?
Conklin: The city standard is 28'. It does allow for on street parking. If it is a 20'
or 18' street and someone parks on the street now you have reduced it to
basically one lane. We have heard some concerns about that this evening.
House: If it means making this process go quicker we would consider widening it
to 28'.
Estes: That is the reason for my motion to return it to Subdivision. It seems to
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 27
me that there is some work that needs to be done on this issue. It seems to
me that one of the principal matters that needs to be discussed is the
underlying presumption that Olive Avenue is a local street.
Ostner: This is a question for Tim. At the beginning of our meeting you eluded to
the fact that our current standards that are on the books that talk about a
28' street wouldn't allow most of our historic downtown to be built
because of different lot sizes and steep hills, etc. Is this the case that you
were talking about where things have been built historically but our rules
have changed so sometimes we have to back off of our minimums to allow
these old areas to stay in place?
Conklin: What I am referring to is our current street standards for a local street is a
28' street with sidewalks on both sides. There are many areas in
Fayetteville that do not meet those standards. My guess is that most of us
this evening when we leave this room will get on streets that do not meet a
local street standard. Many of our arterial streets do not meet the local
street standards that we drive on. What I am referring to is that we have
many areas where if you looked at our street standards and you stated that
it is impossible to build that street, most of us this evening will be driving
on streets that do not meet those standards. Some of those standards or
issues are related to slope. There are some fairly steep streets in
Fayetteville that would with today's standards need some type of waiver.
Should they have been built in the past? I guess that is up for debate. I
think sometimes it is necessary to have the connectivity to connect
neighborhoods together and look at where we can waive some of those
standards and start building some neighborhoods that connect together.
That is kind of what I was referring to at the beginning of the meeting.
Ostner: Thank you for that. My view on this is that if he is going to bring Olive
up to not even the standard per say in our book but standard to the
maximum that could be built there. I believe these stakes in people's
yards and these strings, I would guess people would say please don't do
that because it is probably way in your yard and trees would have to be cut
down. If a 20' wide street is safer and it is the most we can build in this
historic area I would be in favor of it and I wouldn't see that as a blockage
to the science as Mr. Estes has talked about.
Shackelford: Tim, along the same lines I want to ask a more specific question.
Condition of approval number one staff is recommending construction of
Center Street from Walnut to Olive with waivers from the minimum street
standards if necessary. Would you support, or is staff in support of Center
Street to be developed to a 20' width? Is that the type of waiver that you
were intending with that comment?
Conklin: Yes.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 28
Shackelford: Do you see any difference in why if staff would support a 20' width
waiver for Center Street do you see any difference in Center Street and
what is proposed on Olive Street which is a 20' width?
Conklin: The main difference was the reduced right of way for Center Street. Olive
Street there is adequate right of way. The question that comes up is if we
are going to continue to develop these areas we are going to have to make
sure that we don't allow on street parking because it does reduce the
capacity. Especially if Olive Street is not connected through. You will
have a situation if people do park on the street as we heard this evening,
you are not going to be able to get cars past each other.
Shackelford: So would it be safe to say staff would support a 20' wide street with the
right covenants in place, whatever you want to say, to limit on street
parking?
Conklin: We would support it as long as we could make sure that cars can go two
ways in and out.
Shackelford: Thank you.
Bunch: We have looked at three different proposals on this street situation. One is
a cul-de-sac, one is the extension of Olive to approximately Center Street
right of way and the other is to do Olive and Center. Can we get a clear
reading of what street widths would be involved in those three options?
Tim, can you tell us what would be acceptable to the Planning Department
and to the city because we seem to be in a circular pattern here. Are we
looking at a historic local street so to speak? We changed at one time
from a regular collector to a historic collector to accommodate situations
in the downtown area. It looks like that is what we are kind of dancing
around here. Can you give us a little bit of insight that says if it is a cul-
de-sac it is 28' or 20' from this point to this point and then at some point if
it becomes wider where it would become wider. Give us a quick rundown
of the three different options because I think that is what our main goal
here is to come up with an idea of which type of situation we want to look
at. Can you kind of give us a description of all three?
Conklin: Sure. With regard to Center Street we have a 30' right of way. We were
looking at what the possibilities would be to connect that street with a 20'
wide street. With regard to Olive Street that is not constructed right now
in front of the development we were looking at a 28' street which would
allow some additional on street parking if the connection is made. If you
do not make the connection you have the cul-de-sac and you have cars
parked in the cul-de-sac, you reduce the turning radius and could actually
make the cul-de-sac not function. If you have the connection there and
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 29
you do 28' in front of the development you will allow some additional on
street parking. It takes about 22' for a parallel parking space. With regard
to Olive Street, widening that to 20' does help meet that international
building code.
Bunch: What about the option if you use a hammer head type turn around?
Conklin: If you use a hammerhead turn around I think in this situation what we
have seen if someone has a party or people over the ability to have
additional cars parking on the street, I think if there is an opportunity and
the right of way is there then it would be preferable to do a 28' street since
we have seen in other areas on street parking which has reduced the
capacity below what is acceptable.
Bunch: Would that be a 28' all the way from Spring or just a 28' from where it
goes by this project?
Conklin: In front of the project.
Bunch: So if Olive were extended all the way to the proximity of Center it would
be 20' from Spring until you get to the edge of this project and then 28'
from there to the extension?
Conklin: That is correct. It would be new street construction. It would not be
taking place in front of the existing development and it would provide the
opportunity for additional parking. Parking is one of those issues that has
come up over the last four or six months now since we have looked at this
project. Once again, do we have the ability to try to meet a local street
standard in front of this development. There is the potential that you could
have a party or something where people would need to park.
Bunch: So then if Olive Street were not extended any further than to Center then
this letter that came out March 20`h would only exercise option A which
would be the 20 additional potential build out? If Olive were only built
adjacent to the property for the proposed site then that would only bring in
area A would I be correct in assuming that?
Conklin: If it is built to the Center Street right of way you potentially could have a
property owner or developer try to connect onto it. Just like this developer
proposed originally this evening. Once again, the issue is are we going to
continue to allow apaitment complexes to provide the minimal amount of
street frontage and build apartment complexes that access the one street or
are we going to look for actual street construction adjacent to the
developments? That is something that staff is concerned about. This area
is zoned R-2. We have seen several developments occur in this area. I
don't think development is going to stop occurring in this area. It is a very
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 30
Estes:
desirable area and if we extend Olive Street down I think that was one of
the issues that came up in Subdivision Committee. If you extend the street
it opens the area up for development. I am assuming that since it is zoned
R-2 that development is going to occur in the area and if you don't extend
the street we are going to be addressing the same issue six months from
now or a year from now.
Commissioner Bunch and Mr. Conklin have articulated much better than I
why this needs to go back to Subdivision. Maybe even Commissioner
Hoover will vote for my motion now.
Aviles: It sounds like there are a lot of issues before us and I really think the
Planning Commission needs to not guess at what is going to happen with
the impact of the development but we need to plan for it. That is why I
don't want to cost anybody any extra time but I also don't want to make a
mistake.
Ward:
I just have a couple of comments I would like to make about it. First of
all, if this was just zoned R-1 there is a little over two acres of land there,
you could put nine or ten houses on this property and we are talking about
the same amount of bedrooms. You are still talking about 36 to 40
bedrooms just like that. The impact would not be really much different
whether it was nine individual or ten individual lots or this 39 unit
dwelling. The other thing that we have had a lot of talk about lately
around the city is affordable housing or coming up with housing that
would be affordable for more people. I really, with all of our new
ordinances and impact fees and all the cost of everything that is going on
construction wise, etc., building these type of units for sale as condos I
think will be what will be our affordable housing in the future. I don't see
that affordable housing is going to come up with homes up on Mount
Sequoyah that will be affordable. I personally when I first saw the
concept I thought it was a very unique looking plan as far as the buildings
and the way that the elevations looked. I am probably the only one here
that lives on Mount Sequoyah and I am not sure that I am really excited
about opening up more streets. Center Street, I know there are several
people against opening up Center Street. The design of the cul-de-sac
with a sidewalk being provided by the developer up to the top there and
doing the cul-de-sac to me was a better plan than trying to bring it in and
go across from Center to Olive. That is only my opinion. I would rather
have it that way personally. Those are some of my thoughts on it. The
density level of these units is not much greater, if any greater than if it was
just going to be single-family homes. I understand that these condos will
be more for condos and be for sale and I think that is maybe a unique way
of providing housing that is affordable up on Mount Sequoyah. That is
really all I have to say. I don't care which way we go as far as putting the
street through or not putting the street through, I just always thought that
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 31
the cul-de-sac made a little more sense to me since I live up there.
Aviles: Is there anybody else?
Allen: I will comment that I feel like our definition of planners, the word in itself,
makes me feel like we need to look more carefully at this and the impact
of the whole undeveloped area by opening Center Street. I have a lot of
concerns about that. It seems kind of like it is a problem either way we go
but as a result of my concerns I will vote for the motion to table.
Aviles: Thanks Commissioner.
Osmer: I have one more question for Tim. Are there other instances where we
have done things like this about a development has access or requires a
minimum amount of street construction to provide access on its backside
or a secondary ingress and egress as an opportunity on the Master Street
Plan? Have we required either construction or partial funds or cost share?
Have we done things like this?
Conklin- Yes. These projects have been larger. I pointed this out to Mr. House and
their engineer. Shiloh West apartments, a collector street was built paid
100% by the developer connecting over to Betty Jo. That project had
frontage on Shiloh. Another apartment complex had frontage along the
bypass with streets, Southern View Apartments required Stone Street to be
extended through the development. That required a street to be extended
to the north that was not on the Master Street Plan. The first one I
mentioned was on the Master Street Plan. Just recently we have had two
projects. They are much larger scale than this project but the Planning
Commission did require those street connections within those
developments. This issue is continuing to come up as we look at how we
develop Fayetteville and look at these annequated areas with these platted
subdivisions. These are never easy issues to resolve either.
Ostner: My reason for asking that is I foresee this going back to Subdivision and
we talk the same old things and we wind up right here in two weeks or
four weeks because Mr. House has chosen to pay the money to hire these
engineers to do the traffic studies. When we go back to Subdivision we
don't do that. We don't have the engineers or the capabilities to do that
but we have them and they have already done their part and given us their
recommendation that they think Center Street should be connected, that
Olive should come up to standards and that that would suffice to meet our
requirements as a city and for this project. This is just a concept plat.
This is all going to happen almost again in the Large Scale Development.
That is what I foresee happening at Subdivision. We will all stand around
and ask them, because they are our professionals. Mr. House hires his. I
think it is a tough decision. I would like to see Center connected. I think
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 32
as a city connectivity is important. As Ms. Allen said there are problems
either way. There are problems doing it, there are problems not doing it. I
think it is a tough call but I am not in favor of tabling it or sending it back
to Subdivision. If we have to go that route as a Commission I think we
can work more.
Aviles: I don't want to cut anybody short but I do want to remind you that we still
have about 10 items to go on the agenda tonight so if you have anything to
say let's say it and get on with it.
Bunch: Concerning condition of approval one. Staff is recommending the
construction of Center Street from Walnut to Olive and Olive Street
adjacent to the site with waivers from the minimum street standards if
necessary. Who pays for this if the applicant does a rational nexus where
do the monies come from to complete it and when could it be completed?
Staff is making a recommendation on what is to be built, how would that
being built occur?
Conklin: Sure. If you agree with this methodology and you recommend a cost share
most likely this cost share would go to the street committee and the street
committee would hear a report from staff and then it would have to go to
city council for approval. This would all be subject to Council approval if
you approved it saying that if he only has to contribute money then the
street doesn't need to be constructed as part of this project or if it needs to
be constructed then the City Council would have to approve that cost
share. The most recent one I can think of, which is actually going to
Council in a couple of weeks is the connection for Crystal Springs over to
Deane Solomon Road. The city felt like that connection was important for
that neighborhood. That is kind of the process that you have to go
through. I am not sure what the City Council, how they would act on this
however, if the Commission thinks it is important as a part of this
development you can make a recommendation that this connection is
important and that you would like to see it happen.
Allen: I call for the question.
Aviles: Does anybody else have anything to say?
Shackelford: A couple of points I want to make. First of all, we are talking about the
impact on surrounding undeveloped areas. Those areas are zoned R-2.
There is some use by right to those areas based on current zoning. I have
always struggled with this thought process that we basically penalize an
applicant on a development for fear of what might develop around him
based on the decision that we make on that property. I would ask that
Planning Commission come to some sort of consensus on conditions of
approval on what sort of street connectivity we want for this project and
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 33
go forward with it on that. The second point I want to make is after
looking at Mr. House's information, I was under the assumption that Olive
Street would be widened to a 20' width as part of their traffic study. I was
also under the assumption that that width and that recommendation was
acceptable by city staff. Based on that information I am still struggling
with where the flaw is in the logic of the traffic and impact data and what
improvements we are going to get out of kicking this thing back to
Subdivision. I don't see what the difference of information for us next
time is going to be next time when we hear this.
Aviles: Thanks Commissioner.
Hoover: This project is infill development which always a question because we
have existing conditions and existing right of way. We can't always build
it like we would a new subdivision so we have to look at the situation
around here. It is a conceptual plat, which I think he brought to us to get
our judgment of what we think should happen here and the big issue at
hand is are we for connectivity and infill development and higher density.
I guess I would like to say that with a project like this, it is increasing the
density. There is R-2 zoning along this area and we are going to see more
of these developments come in I'm sure and we are going to need to
connect them. On that same concept, I think it needs to be connected.
Aviles: Thanks Commissioner. Is there anybody else? Renee, would you call the
roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to send CCP 03-?? Failed by
a vote of 6-3-0 with Commissioners Ostner, Ward, Church, Hoover,
Bunch, and Shackelford voting no.
Aviles: The motion fails for lack of majority. Do I have a replacement motion?
Shackelford: I would like to get more input on consensus of the Planning Commission.
Obviously Commissioner Hoover stated that she feels that connectivity is
important and would like to see the build out of Olive Street to connect the
property. I would like to see what the consensus is from the Planning
Commission in that area for any other recommendations other than
conditions of approval we have as presented.
Aviles: Commissioners? I have heard from Commissioners Hoover and
Shackelford.
Ostner: I think I might have already shared that I think connectivity is important.
In a way sometimes the glass is half empty and half full. In a way it is a
penalty for having to develop this but in another way he is getting to
develop something that most people don't. He is getting to develop
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 34
something unique and downtown and it is different. One of those
drawbacks is there are two streets he might have to develop and not one.
Very few places have that. In fact, I can't think of one. A big place that
can be developed with this much area that is this unique and this
downtown and has this many unique opportunities as Mr. Ward talked
about in selling these condos. I don't like piling on these costs at all. It is
incredibly expensive to build this extra road but I think it is important to
the town, to the other people who live around here. I think it is going to
take traffic away. I think it is going to alleviate the problem at Spring.
There will be another option, another way to get down the mountain.
There are very few options now and that is what connectivity is all about.
Shackelford: I am not speaking against connectivity at all. My main goal is to take
action on the proposal. Lets let the developer know what terms and
conditions the city must have in a project to approve the project that will
allow the developer to go back to see if it is economically feasible to
proceed, which I believe is the whole purpose of the concept plat that is
before us tonight. I just wanted to state that I am not arguing the specific
points of connectivity. I am just trying to get to what our consensus would
be so the developer can make his decisions on whether or not he is going
to proceed with this development.
Bunch: With condition one as it is stated, if hypothetically this Commission were
to accept condition one and pass this concept plat it would still have to go
before Council. It would still allow the time to resolve the issues that may
be questioned. The same amount of time possibly of going back to
Subdivision, the same amount of time in going forward. Those same
questions could be answered in that interim. What does the city want?
What does the City Council want on street width? The City Council is the
one that passes these. We are operating in their shadow. I feel that we
should make a recommendation to them of what we feel is necessary and
then let them make that decision because that is their job.
Aviles: Thank you Commissioner.
Shackelford: That is what I meant Dawn.
Aviles: I will go ahead and say that this is my last meeting and as such, I am
hesitant to offer too strong of an opinion but I have always tried to look at
not only the developer's side but what is good for the city as a whole and
what the impact of development is for the city. For that reason, I would
say that if I were going to continue on the Planning Commission I would
be looking at the density of the development and its impact on Olive
Street. If it were less dense I think a cul-de-sac would be appropriate.
With it being more dense then I think the street should connect.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 35
Shackelford: Madam Chair, how do you define less dense and more dense?
Aviles: I think that there are lingering questions about the appropriateness of R-2
zoning in this area. I think that there are lots of things like that that are
certainly issues in the neighbor's minds. I know that the developer has a
piece of property that is zoned R-2 and wants to make the most of it but I
think that in terms of the realities and common sense of who is going to
park where that less dense equals a cul-de-sac with this specified number
of units then I guess I should say it probably should go ahead and connect.
Shackelford: Obviously if this was a rezoning we would be having a completely
different conversation but this property is already zoned R-2.
Allen: If we were to connect to Center Street are we talking about making Center
Street 20' or 28'?
Conklin- I think it would be difficult to make a 28' street with the existing right of
way so probably 20'. Once again, the engineer did not do any detailed
engineering or design awaiting the outcome.
MOTION:
Hoover: I believe that staff has done a very good job at analyzing this and
Subdivision also. The other thing staff has shown us that there is a
precedence for this. We have already asked other developers to do streets
through equal density so I would like to make a motion that we approve
CPL 03-1.00.
Ostner: I will second.
Aviles: I have a motion for approval by Commissioner Hoover and a second by
Commissioner Ostner. Is there additional discussion?
Shackelford: Just very briefly for the record. Condition number three we need to make
the sure the change has been made to show an existing 30 inch water line
easement instead of 30 foot.
Aviles: So noted. Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve CPL 03-1.00 was
approved by a vote of 7-2-0 with Commissioners Estes and Aviles voting
no.
Aviles: Thanks Renee. The motion carries.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 36
LSD 03-8.00: Large Scale Development (Ruby Tuesday, pp 588) was submitted by
Mark Rickett of Rickett Engineering, Inc. on behalf of John Bruton of Ruby Tuesday for
property located north of Highway 62 and west of University Square Plaza. The property
is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 1.43 acres with a
4,600 sq.ft. restaurant proposed.
Aviles: The fifth item on our agenda this evening is LSD 03-8.00 for Ruby
Tuesday submitted by Mark Rickett of Rickett Engineering, Inc. on behalf
of John Bruton of Ruby Tuesday for property located north of Highway 62
and west of University Square Plaza. The property is zoned C-2,
Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 1.43 acres with a
4,600 sq.ft. restaurant proposed.
Estes:
The proposal is for the construction of a 4,600 sq.ft. restaurant with 99
parking spaces. A previous Conditional Use was approved for up to 100
parking stalls. Staff recommends approval subject to certain conditions of
approval. Mr. Conklin, do we have signed conditions of approval?
Edwards: Yes we do.
Estes: Those conditions of approval are 1) Parking lot lighting shall utilize full cut off
sodium lighting fixtures and shall not exceed 35 feet in height. 2)
Planning Commission determination of compliance with Commercial
Design Standards. Staff is recommending color sample submission prior to
Planning Commission. 3) All utility and electrical equipment, meters, and
dumpsters shall be screened. 4) A sidewalk shall be constructed along the
west side of the private drive to connect to the approved sidewalk for the
Hampton Inn. 5) Pedestrian access shall be provided from the private
drive to the front door of the restaurant. 6) All utilities shall be placed
underground. 7) No freestanding signs shall be allowed in addition to the
joint identification sign which was approved to be shared by the Hampton
Inn and Ruby Tuesdays. Are there any additional conditions of approval
Mr. Conklin?
Conklin: There are no additional conditions.
Estes: Is the applicant present? If so, would you please come forward and state
your name and give us the benefit of your presentation.
Rickett: My name is Mark Rickett representing Ruby Tuesdays.
Smith: My name is Shawn Smith representing Ruby Tuesdays as well.
Rickett: I do not have a presentation, I don't know if Mr. Smith does or not. I am
here to answer questions that you may have.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 37
Estes: Thank you Mr. Rickett. Shawn, do you have anything?
Smith: No I do not.
Estes: Is there any member of the audience who would like to provide public
comment on this requested Large Scale Development? Seeing none, I will
bring it back to the Commission for questions of the applicant, motions,
and discussion.
Ward:
Mark or Shawn, why don't you kind of give us a rundown of the
commercial design standards. Tell us a little bit about the building, the
type of materials, colors, the elevations of it and so on. That may be
important.
Smith: Do you have elevations?
Ward: Yes we do.
Smith: They do not match this board. This is not what we are doing. The
building is primarily a stucco finish building. That is the mustard color
that you see on there. There is cultured stacked stone, no mortar between
the stacks, those make up the tower, the entryway, the pilasters which we
have added. Normally most of those pilasters would also be stucco but per
request in our minds we feel we have dressed the building up by using
more stone also breaking up vast expanses of the same material.
Ward:
Smith:
It looks like your east and south elevations, which have the most visibility
from all public streets, it looks like you have used a lot of glass and brick
or stone, is that right?
That is correct. That is all the dining room in there. There was a bit of
concern as to rooftop screening for rooftop mechanical units. Usually we
use a prefabricated metal screen wall which we were told would not be
acceptable. After some conversations and per your comments we changed
it to be a screen wall that would use the exact same materials as the rest of
the building, the same color, same materials. It is fully screening all
rooftop equipment. I think that was the main issue for us, Ruby Tuesdays.
There was also an issue with the exposed, typically we have an exposed
cooler box at the back of the building. We paint it to match the stucco,
which in this case would be the mustard. We were told that that would not
be acceptable so what we are proposing is to finish that cooler box with a
type of paint which is not just smooth paint but it has a very rough texture
to it so that cooler box will look like it is stucco to help it blend into the
rear of the building. That is the north elevation. I don't know what other
questions I might be able to answer for you.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 38
Allen:
Smith:
I have been to some Ruby Tuesdays in other cities and just in my own
personal opinion, I thought they were more attractive than this one. I
wondered how you decided on this particular prototype for this location.
That decision is made by my client. I am sure it has a lot to do with
numbers of customers they think they are going to be able to serve, the
amount of parking, the size of lot. Some lots you can't fit a bigger
building that may be one of the buildings that you are thinking is more
attractive. This is our smallest building.
Pate: My name is Dan Pate. I am the Director of Construction for Ruby
Tuesday restaurants. Can you repeat your question please?
Allen: I said that I have been to some Ruby Tuesdays in other cities and in my
humble opinion have found them more aesthetically pleasing than this
particular prototype and wondered how you determined to use this one for
this location.
Pate:
Actually, what you see here a lot of the elements are used in our standard
design package that we do now. Some of the older classic Ruby Tuesdays
used an old board on back, hardy board panel, etc. We have gotten away
from that. We have gone more upscale with the dryvit and stacked stone
look. We feel like it has given us a more rich feeling and a more customer
friendly environment. There is a slew of design architects sitting at our
corporate headquarters that come up with these designs which our CEO
signs off on. Basically the studies that have come back for us these
elevations on this prototypical type if you will, are pleasing to the
customers and have increased our sales volume at our restaurants.
Estes: Commissioner Allen, do you have any other questions?
Allen: No, I guess that that just determined that I have poor taste.
Estes: Are there any motions or any discussion?
Hoover: On the north elevation, which seems to be the one that we discussed at
Subdivision, I have seen some improvement but it seems like if they were
willing to add some awnings or something like they did with one of the
other elevations because this will be seen from across the way with the
hotel.
Pate:
Actually, the back of the building is more of a service corridor area. There
are doors for the electrical boxes, the roof access ladder is back there.
Access to the cooler equipment is back there as well.
Hoover: You might be saying that is the rear of the building but that is actually a
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 39
visible side that we wouldn't call a rear.
Pate: The visibility from it is not from the main road, it is toward the back of the
corridor of the development basically.
Smith: Also, these elevations are not taking into consideration landscaping that
would be planned for the site also which would be in front of the cooler
box and it would be in front of some of these other things that we feel
would certainly help dress that up.
Hoover: Thank you.
Church: One more question. How do you reach a decision on which prototype you
use?
Pate: Prototypes are based on our return on investment, size of the demographic
of the area that we are actually putting the restaurant in and payback. For
us to put the largest prototype that we have in here would not work for us
economically as well as the middle sized.
Church: We have just seen an example where Olive Garden built one of their latest
prototype restaurants and I think we are seeing that it is definitely paying
off in sells. If you are willing to invest a little on the front end I think it
comes back in the end so that is why I am asking the question.
Estes: Commissioners, is there any other discussion?
Hoover: Commissioner Church had a good observation there. I had forgotten about
the Olive Garden. They are definitely not necessarily viewed from a public
street but you can see them once you are in there when the other
developments go in you are going to be able to see all sides and they did
carry the same material all the way around. I am not suggesting you carry
your material all around just to address this as an elevation that is going to
be seen from other people in the commercial subdivision.
Pate:
We actually do carry the material of the E.I.F.S all the way around as well
as the green band. One of the elements we don't carry around is the
awnings. If you look at this elevation I am not sure how architecturally
you would apply any type of architectural awning in this area. As Shawn
Smith pointed out we have also dressed this area up with landscaping.
Hoover: How can the landscaping be in front of this elevation because it shows all
paving on the site plan.
Pate: You are right, I stand corrected. It is proposed as sidewalk in there. I was
out of line saying landscaping would hide that.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 40
Aviles: I think you can mitigate the back view with a little bit of landscaping.
There is a sidewalk that goes toward the dumpster and I think that there is
room not in front of the dumpster pad but just as the sidewalk turns toward
the grease traps to add some landscaping in there. Would you guys be
willing to do that to partially shield the view?
Pate: Sure.
Aviles: Can you coordinate that with staff?
Pate: Are you referring to the area to the left of the grease trap?
Aviles: Yes.
Pate: Yes, that is not an issue at all.
Pate: We will put the high arbrivada so it will give it more of a blocking view.
Aviles: I think the other sides of the building are certainly more attractive than our
usual older restaurant that we see and if we can mitigate that back side
with landscaping t would be in favor of it.
Estes: Is there any further discussion or any motions?
MOTION:
Shackelford: I appreciate the comments regarding Olive Garden. That is obviously a
very good looking building. I would like to remind the Commission
though that this development isn't going to have the development on all
sides of it that we are seeing in the CMN business park. This does back
up to some existing buildings but it is not at all the type of traffic count
behind the building that you see in CMN. Based on that, with the
agreement to add some additional landscape I am going to go ahead and
make a motion that we approve LSD 03-8.00 subject to all staff conditions
with the specific finding that the building is in compliance with our
commercial design standards.
Estes: We have a motion by Commissioner Shackelford to approve LSD 03-8.00
is there a second?
Church: I will second.
Ward: The only thing I have about the north elevation I guess the Hampton Inn is
going to be sitting to the north of this property, is that right?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 41
Pate: That is correct.
Ward:
I do think a little bit of landscaping would definitely help, and I can't
redesign your building but on that north elevation if you put some of those
same canopies or awnings above those doors and so on I think it would
kind of take away that long unarticulated wall on the north end and dress it
up. That would basically take care of all of our problems. I don't know if
you can do that or not. Awnings usually don't cost much and that would
match the south elevations and the east elevations and make the building
much more attractive from the Hampton Inn.
Pate: In order to expedite this process if you want two awnings back there I will
be more than happy to put them back there.
Ward: I think it will be seen from the hotel for sure.
Pate: You have got them, two awnings.
Estes: We have a motion by Commissioner Shackelford to approve LSD 03-8.00
and we have a second by Commissioner Church. Is there any further
discussion? Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 03-8.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Estes: The motion passes by a unanimous vote of nine to zero.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 42
LSD 03-9.00: Large Scale Development (Walgreens, pp 523) was submitted by
Geoffrey Bates of Keystone Consultants, Inc. on behalf of BENCOR for property located
at the northeast corner of 6`h Street and South School Avenue. The property is zoned C-
2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains approximately 2.0 acres with a 14,560 sq.ft.
building proposed.
Aviles: Sixth on our agenda this evening is LSD 03-9.00 submitted by Geoffrey
Bates of Keystone Consultants, Inc. on behalf of BENCOR for property
located at the northeast corner of 6th Street and South School Avenue. The
property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains
approximately 2.0 acres with a 14,560 sq.ft. building proposed. There are
eleven conditions of approval. Do we have signed conditions?
Edwards: Yes we do.
Aviles: Seven through eleven are standard conditions.
Ward: I will need to recuse from this particular item on the agenda.
Aviles: Sara, do you want to give us the staff report?
Edwards: Yes. The proposal is for a 14,560 sq.ft. Walgreen's with 70 parking
spaces proposed. There are currently vacant buildings on this site which
will be removed. There is an alley running through the site which must be
vacated. To familiarize you with where this property is, it is across from
the Mill District north of OReilly's. I would like to say that the
Commission requested at agenda session that we research elevations of
other Walgreen's that have been approved, which we have done which I
will pass around right now. I will let the applicant address what they have
done since agenda session to the elevations.
Aviles: Thank you Sara. I will go ahead and read the conditions of approval. 1)
Twenty-five feet from centerline shall be dedicated along Sixth Street
pursuant to the requirements for a Historic Collector on the Master Street
Plan. This has not been accommodated at the southeast corner of the site.
2) All utility equipment shall be screened. 3) Approval shall be subject
to approval of the associated vacation for the alley which runs north/ south
through the project. 4) Planning Commission determination of the
required off-site improvements. Staff is recommending improvements to
both Fifth Street and Locust Avenue to include widening to 14 feet from
centerline with curb, gutter and storm drainage. 5) Planning Commission
determination of requested variance of the 15 foot parking lot setback
along Sixth Street. There is existing right of way which extends around a
drainage structure on Sixth Street. The applicant is requesting not to be
required to meet the required 15 foot parking lot setback in this area in
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 43
Bates:
order to provide consistent and uniform site development. Staff is in
support of this request. 6) Planning Commission determination of
compliance with Commercial Design Standards including signage.
Structure: The proposed structure is adjacent to City streets on all four
sides. East and North elevations as currently proposed present a large
blank unarticulated wall surface. Staff recommends that elements or
features present on the south and west elevations be repeated on these
elevations to provide a consistent appearance for this building on all
adjacent public streets. Signage: The applicant is requesting a variance
from the sign ordinance. The proposal is for a ten foot tall, 92 square foot
monument sign with a twenty five foot setback. The Planning
Commission must first determine compliance with Commercial Design
Standards prior to the item being heard at the Board of Sign Appeals. Staff
has determined the proposal not to be an issue with regard to sight
distance. However, staff is recommending the sign meet the sign
ordinance. In order to meet the sign ordinance, the sign must first be
reduced to 75 square feet. Option 1: Monument Sign. In order to utilize
the monument sign option the sign may not exceed 6 feet in height and
must have a minimum setback of 10 feet. Option 2: Freestanding Sign. In
order to utilize the freestanding sign option, the sign may be up to 30 feet
in height and must have a minimum setback of 40 feet. Staff recommends
the use of a monument sign by reducing the height from 10 to 6 feet which
would result in a reduction of square footage to 55.2 square feet. The sign
shall not blink or flash. The other conditions of approval are standard and
I won't read those into the record. Is the applicant present?
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. My name is Geoff Bates, I am an
engineer with Keystone Consultants and I will be representing the
developer tonight. Also with me is Mr. Tim Gallup, he is the architect if
you have any questions regarding the building. I probably have just a little
presentation to address some of these issues. I think personally and for the
good of the city, we ought to be thankful that Walgreen's has picked this
site. I think the south side of the city really needs some revitalization and
I think it is great that they did pick this area and they are really trying to
work and get in this area of town. These were the first elevations we
submitted and we changed them up some based on Subdivision Committee
comments by adding awnings on the north end and also brick. We added
a split faced CPU all around the building.
Aviles: Can you clarify, what that since agenda session?
Bates: Yes Ma'am. There are some small elevations of these that I can pass
around.
Shackelford: Sara, for clarification that that you passed around earlier for us to look at,
the bottom one is what location?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 44
Edwards: Joyce.
Shackelford: Proposed at Joyce.
Edwards: Approved at Joyce.
Shackelford: The bottom one is approved at Joyce.
Estes: I am totally confused.
Aviles: Let's just look at what is in front of us.
Estes: This board is labeled North College Avenue and Township, why are you
giving this to us?
Shackelford: We're not, staff passed that out.
Estes: Ok, so get rid of this.
Bunch: We requested those.
Estes: What is the other board that Renee has?
Edwards: I can clarify for you if you would let me. At agenda session the
Commission requested to see elevations of other Walgreen's that have
been approved. This one in front of you is the one on Township that is
constructed. This other smaller board is the one that we recently approved
up by the mall on Joyce Street.
Aviles: The point on those is I think that the elevations that are facing streets have
articulation and so forth. This site is different in that it has got four sides
visible surrounded by streets.
Gallup: I am Tim Gallup with Callahan and Gallup.
Aviles: Would you elaborate for us then on this most current elevation what the
materials are proposed and what the color contrasting is?
Gallup: We have a color board of samples over here. The building consists of
brick all the way around the building on all four sides and we have a
grayish green awning over the windows. It also consists of some
limestone colored split faced CMU all the way around the base that
resembles a limestone wainscote. What we have done since staff
comments is we have added awnings on the back side over the storage
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 45
Bates:
Gallup:
area and doors on the north side. We have also bricked in total brick
around the compactors, trash area, and the storage areas. We also feel that
on the two sides that were commented on that we have a heavy
landscaping area around both of those sides.
I want to point out that on the north side that is all trees and green.
We put a lot of emphasis on landscaping on those two sides to screen the
service areas for the trucks and for the garbage pick up and also for the
stacking of the cars as they go through the drive thru. We have got the
landscaping on those two sides to help articulate the building in addition to
the building materials.
Aviles: Is there any landscaping against the building itself?
Gallup: We have landscaping at the corners of the building and then the islands.
Aviles: Commissioners, are there any questions or comments?
Bates: On the sign for our monument sign they wanted it to be 10' tall. I wanted
you to notice that the monument sign is actually set 15' back from the
proposed right of way, which puts it 40' on School Street and 35' on 6th
Street. It doesn't say anywhere in the ordinances but a pole sign the
further back from the right of way the larger you can make the sign. We
are only asking for 15 sq.ft. more and we would move the sign back
accordingly. It is 40' off the street but it is only 15' off the proposed right
of way.
Aviles: Ok. Commissioners we have a couple of waivers and other things to
consider. One is the 15' setback, staff is supporting that request and I
don't have a problem with it.
Ostner: On this 15' setback it is a variance because of the drainage structure? I am
looking at number five because the right of way does a little bump because
of this drainage structure. I know what it looks like now the Highway
Department made a nice new box culvert. On your drawing you show
rocks and what not, is this going to be a hole?
Bates:
Yes. That is a request from the city. At one time we were going to just
cover it all up but there are some issues with the drainage structure and
city staff would rather leave it open.
Ostner: At 265 and 45 in front of Harps we have that lovely massive rock ditch.
Bates: It is not going to look anything like that. This is a lot smaller.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 46
Ostner: It is still a hole and a rotten ditch. It is just a small hole. I don't think that
helps anything in development and I think it should be avoided.
Aviles: Is this an existing condition that we are dealing with here though?
Bates: Yes Ma'am.
Aviles: I think ugly detention ponds are just that. I do agree with you on that but I
think some of our topography gives us some design challenges.
Ostner: This isn't a detention pond. It is basically a junction box for drainages to
come together but they are not letting you cover it up, is that what you are
saying?
Bates:
Ostner:
Bates:
Yes.
And you are wanting to because I want you to cover it up.
I wouldn't mind covering it up but there are some flow issues with that
existing culvert not be constructed correctly.
Ostner: I would appreciate efforts to make it sightly because they can get ugly real
quick.
Bates: They are putting some landscaping around it so hopefully you won't be
able to see it.
Ostner: Great.
Estes: With regard to requested variance from the sign ordinance could you drop
a couple of stacks of the brick, the bottom stack and the top stack and still
keep the trade dress and the mark and not infringe upon the integrity of
either? You are looking at me like an owl in a tree, do you understand my
question? Let me ask it this way. You have requested a variance from the
sign ordinance and the proposed monument sign elevations that have been
presented to us is too big so my question is that you have got three stacks
of brick there. You have got the shoulders on the bottom and then you
have got the second stack. Could you drop a couple of those?
Gallup: Drop it down to 8'.
Estes: Could you do that and not effect the integrity of it?
Gallup: Yes.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 47
Estes: You could drop some stacks out of the standard utility size brick.
Gallup: We would drop it out of the standard.
Estes: How much would you drop out?
Gallup: I wouldn't want to go any lower than 8'.
Estes: Would that work?
Gallup: Yes. One thing that may happen and I am not sure when you drop it down
to 8' the two panels may or may not flip. When we get further down these
panels may or may not flip on top of each others.
Aviles: But the dimensions would be as we are discussing?
Gallup: Yes.
MOTION:
Estes: With that said, I would move for approval of LSD 03-9.00 granting the
requested variance of the 15' parking lot setback along 6`h Street and
allowing for a requested variance from the sign ordinance to 8'. The
monument sign would be reduced in height from 10' to 8' which would
result in an accompanying reduction of square footage.
Aviles: And your finding for the commercial design standards as well?
Estes: Yes.
Aviles: I have a motion by Commissioner Estes do I have a second?
Ostner: Second.
Aviles: Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve LSD 03-9.00 was
approved by a vote of 8-0-1 with Commissioner Ward abstaining.
Aviles: The motion carries on a vote of eight with one abstention. Thank you
gentlemen.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 48
PPL 03-6.00: Preliminary Plat (Summerbrook Estates, pp 648) was submitted by
Milholland Company on behalf of NLC, Inc. for property located on Hunt Lane south of
Hwy 16 East. The property is in the Planning Area and contains approximately 28.35
acres with 12 lots proposed.
Aviles: Seventh on the agenda this evening is PPL 03-6.00 for Summerbrook
Estates which was submitted by Milholland Company on behalf of NLC,
Inc. for property located on Hunt Lane south of Hwy 16 East. The
property is in the Planning Area and contains approximately 28.35 acres
with 12 lots proposed. There are nine conditions of approval, six through
nine are standard. Sara, do we have signed conditions?
Edwards: Yes we do.
Aviles: Do you want to give us the staff report?
Edwards: Yes. What we have as you said, is a subdivision in the Planning area.
Public improvements meet city standards which are a waterline extension
of an 8" water line and a public street with right of way 60' in width. The
standards of that street as far as construction and how it will be built, our
ordinances defer to Washington County. Individual sewage treatment
systems will be utilized and we are recommending approval subject to
those conditions.
Aviles: Thank you Sara. I am going to go ahead and read those conditions and
then we will hear from the applicant. 1) Gates shall be prohibited on
Summerbrook Place. 2) Washington County Approval must be obtained
prior to construction. 3) Final plat approval shall be obtained prior to
filing the final plat. 4) An 8 inch waterline shall be extended to serve this
subdivision. 5) Approval shall be contingent upon the applicant receiving
Arkansas Department of Heath permits for individual sewage treatment
systems. Six through nine are standard. Mr. Milholland?
Milholland: We have signed and our client concurs with all the conditions of approval.
I hope there are not any problems but if there are we would be happy to
answer any questions. Otherwise, we respectfully request approval of it.
Aviles: Thank you Sir. Is there any member of the public that would wish to
address us on this Preliminary Plat? Seeing no one, I will go ahead and
bring it back to the Commission and to the applicant for questions or
motions.
MOTION:
Shackelford: I will make a motion that we approve PPL 03-6.00 subject to the eight
conditions of approval.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 49
Aviles: Thank you Commissioner. Is there a second?
Ward: I will second.
Bunch: I have a question for the applicant. Lots 11 and 12 crossing the creek, is
there any problem there with the Corp. of Engineers or Waters of the
United States or any of that kind of deal with building bridges across that?
That is an all weather creek isn't it?
Milholland: My understanding is they put low water bridges so they can drive across
there without blocking the flow or anything.
Bunch: Thank you.
Aviles: Is there anybody else? Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 03-6.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Aviles: The motion carries unanimously.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 50
ADM 03-1100• Administrative Item (Master Street Plan Bridgewater Lane and
Unnamed Minor Arterial) The request is to amend the Master Street Plan to relocate
Bridgewater Lane and relocate and reclassify an unnamed minor arterial to a collector.
Aviles: Eighth on our agenda this evening is ADM 03-11.00, which is a Master
Street Plan for Bridgewater Lane and an unnamed minor arterial. The
request is to amend the Master Street Plan to relocate Bridgewater Lane
and to relocate and reclassify an unnamed minor arterial to a collector.
There is one condition of approval. Do we have signed conditions?
Edwards: This item does not require signed conditions from the applicant.
Aviles: Sara, do you want to give us the staff report?
Edwards: This is in conjunction with our next item on the agenda, which is the
Preliminary Plat for Bridgewater Estates. The proposal is to relocate
Bridgewater Lane, which is a proposed collector street from the southern
edge of the proposed subdivision to the interior of that subdivision. The
second request is to relocate an unnamed minor arterial from the western
boundary of the subdivision to the interior of the subdivision. These
changes are considered amendments to the Master Street Plan and must be
heard at Planning Commission with a recommendation made to the City
Council. We are recommending approval of the Master Street Plan
relocation and recommending accepting a lesser dedication subject to the
deed restricted area. Our reasoning behind that is the relocation of
Bridgewater Lane will not significantly affect how that collector street will
function. It will still connect the unnamed minor arterial with Gulley
Road. The second request also is moving the proposed street off an
existing pond so it will allow for that pond to remain and it would still
provide the same connection as it was originally planned to do. That deed
restricted area will provide the city in the future if this area is annexed a
way to construct that minor arterial if needed.
Aviles: Thank you. Is the applicant present?
Jorgensen: My name is Dave Jorgensen and I am here on behalf of Gaddy
Developments and also we have John Rownak in the audience to assist in
this matter. We are here to answer questions.
Aviles: Thank you very much. Is there any member of the public that would like
to address us on this administrative item? Seeing no one, I will close it to
the public and bring it back to the applicant for further discussion or
motions.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 51
MOTION:
Estes: I would move for approval of ADM 03-11.00 with incorporating the one
condition of approval.
Aviles: I will read that condition into the record. It says the deed restricted area
must be established which prohibits construction within the right of way
needed for a minor arterial street. I have a motion by Commissioner
Estes.
Allen: I will second.
Ostner: I am trusting our staff on this. I just want to understand a little more
clearly of where the new street is going.
Conklin- Bridgewater Lane is being incorporated into the development. With
regard to the unnamed minor arterial, that is also being incorporated into
the development with this deed restriction. Keep in mind a minor arterial
street is designed to take you from one side of town to the other side of
town and with high volumes of traffic. We are dealing with a fairly small
subdivision that is not generating the amount of traffic that in our opinion
would justify requiring the right of way at this time or construction so that
is the recommendation that we are making. BWR is our Traffic
Consultant. They will be looking at our Master Street Plan this spring and
early summer. This is something that I will also ask them to take a look at
when they evaluate our Master Street Plan and what streets are needed in
Fayetteville. One of the issues that we recently dealt with was the issue of
the eastern bypass and the abilities to build some of these streets in these
areas and there are some concerns that staff has south of Hwy. 45 with the
ability for this minor arterial to be connected further to the south.
Aviles: Thanks Tim. Are there any other questions? Renee, would you call the
roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 03-11.00
was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 52
PPL 03-7.00: Preliminary Plat (Bridgewater Estates, pp 219) was submitted by Dave
Jorgensen of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of Bridgewater Estates, LLC for property
located north of Bridgewater Lane and west of Gulley Road. The property is in the
Planning Area and contains approximately 74.22 acres with 31 lots proposed.
Aviles: Our companion item is PPL 03-7.00 for Bridgewater Estates. It was
submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of
Bridgewater Estates, LLC for property located north of Bridgewater Lane
and west of Gulley Road. The property is in the Planning Area and
contains approximately 74.22 acres with 31 lots proposed. There are
seven conditions of approval, five through seven are standard conditions.
Sara, do we have signed conditions?
Edwards: Yes we do.
Aviles: I will go ahead and read those into the record. 1) Approval of the
associated Master Street Plan amendments. The applicant is requesting to
relocate Bridgewater Lane, a proposed collector, and Butterfield Road, a
proposed minor arterial from the edges of the development to be
incorporated into the subdivision and to change the Minor Arterial to a
Collector Street. 2) The plat shall be revised to reflect a building setback
of 35 feet for lots 8 thru 12, 15, 16 and 18 thru 20 along Horse Meadow
Drive and the 70 foot right-of-way dedication extending to the north. 3)
Gates shall be prohibited on the public streets within this development. 4)
County approval is required prior to construction. 5) Plat Review and
Subdivision comments (to include written staff comments provided to the
applicant or his representative, and all comments from utility
representatives. 6) Staff approval of final detailed plans, specifications
and calculations (where applicable) for grading, drainage, water, sewer,
fire protection, streets (public and private), sidewalks, parking lot(s) and
tree preservation. The information submitted for the plat review process
was reviewed for general concept only. All public improvements are
subject to additional review and approval. All improvements shall comply
with City's current requirements. 7) Preliminary Plat approval shall be
valid for one calendar year. Is the applicant present?
Jorgensen: Yes, my name is Dave Jorgensen and also, as I mentioned, we have John
Rownak from Gaddy Investments to help answer questions.
Aviles: Thank you very much. Is there any member of the public that would like
to address us on this Preliminary Plat?
Culgrove: I am Sam Culgrove, I live at 3615, which is right along side what used to
be Frank Kelly's land. Frank always said that the land wouldn't perk, it
would take 20 years for sewer to come in. I have talked to John, he had
come over to the house and said that they were going to eliminate lot 24,
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 53
which was right across from our pond and then there was some other talk
that they might take out another lot. What our big concern is that we have
a spring fed pond there and our other neighbor the water runs over to his
pond and what happens if all these septic tanks just run into our pond? Is
that EPA or does the City of Fayetteville help us? What happens?
Aviles: I am going to refer most of this to our Engineer. I know that the Health
Department approval is required. Matt, can you answer this gentleman's
questions?
Casey:
Health Department approval will be required on each individual lot for the
septic tank and design of their leach field. The City of Fayetteville does
not regulate that so the construction of that will have to meet their
approval.
Aviles: The State Health Department involves some testing before approving it
would have to perk and so on?
Casey:
Yes Ma'am, that is part of the design process. They don't necessarily perk
anymore. They will have a soil morphologist come out on site and look at
a couple of different test pits dug on each lot and they will determine how
many feet of lines are needed for each individual lot based on their
analysis of the soil.
Aviles: Once the State Health Department approves the construction of the septic
tank are you aware of complaints from adjoining property owners about
leakage?
Casey: That does not come to our division.
Aviles: Ok, so he could call the Health Department and probably find out about
that.
Casey: That is correct.
Aviles: Did you have any other questions?
Culgrove: That will work.
Aviles: Is there any other member of the public that would like to talk about this?
I will go ahead and close public discussion on this Preliminary Plat and I
will bring it back to the applicant and to the Commission.
Jorgensen: To help answer that question concerning septic tank design, as a matter of
fact, we are in the process of analysis of each and every lot. That is
correct, we are going to eliminate lot 24 so we will be down to 30 lots
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 54
instead of 31 lots. We want to take that area right there and redistribute
the area and make them larger lots but all of the rest of the lots are in
pretty good shape. We are going to redistribute some lots down in the
southwest corner also. We are in the process of evaluating each and every
lot and that is correct, we have to get this approved through the Health
Department.
Aviles: Thank you very much.
Estes: Sam, what do you use your pond for? Do you irrigate with it?
Culgrove: Yes and I have fish in it and cows enjoy it.
Culgrove, Sally:
We just had a new cow today. I am Sam's wife. We did have some
concerns because we have agriculture. This is an agricultural area. We
don't have city sewer, we don't have cable, we can't get city garbage but
we can get a subdivision next to us. We were kind of unhappy about that.
I understand that it is their land and they can do what they want with it but
it is our land too. We have cattle, our neighbors have cattle and so we
were a little bit concerned. We did wait here since 5:30 to say something.
I understand nobody wants it in their back yard but I guess that is just hard
on us. I know that they are eliminating a couple of lots so that makes us
feel better. I personally wish they would've put a 5 acre lot out instead of
a two acre lot. Yes we do have agriculture and yes our cows do drink of
out of our pond. Our water to the pond comes right off their land which is
spring fed underneath the water. We see it coming in because the land
goes down and there are three ponds we are talking about and the land
goes to one of the three, all of it. There are also two spring fed creeks
going through there. We have geese wintering every year too and I am
guess this will be their last year too. There are a lot of issues that we have.
Thank you.
Ostner: I feel your pain about development. You bought that place and you were
out in agricultural land. This is in the county and there is no legislative
process to talk about whether they should be zoned into a residential zone
or not, they are in the county and as you said, they can do what they want.
Culgrove, Sally:
The County told me they would vote on what you guys did. Somehow
they are going to have to tie together because we have been chasing that
every since we heard about this. You can't call the city because you are
not in the city. We found out we couldn't even get fire protection without
paying an extra $500 a year even though we pay almost $3,000 a year in
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 55
taxes on our place and I know a lot of it comes right into Fayetteville so
we can't talk to you guys because we are in the county but then the
County says that they are just going to go along with what you guys do
and so it ties us up and we will have a subdivision with nobody to talk to
really. At least the other neighborhood had somebody they could voice
their opinions to but here you are just doing the streets from what they told
us and they do the rest of it but they are going to go along with what you
do so it kind of leaves us where we are in the middle kind of with nobody
to protect us.
Aviles: There are a lot of times that people come to us with these concerns. I am
going to ask our City Attorney to explain a little bit further about what we
have to do with regard to approving developments. We go through
opposition on Large Scale Developments inside the city and we are
charged with trying to appease the neighbors and appease the developers
and end up with conflicting interests. We are charged with whatever rules
and regulations we have in front of us, which in this case does happen to
be the streets and things that they put down in the conditions of approval
and if they have met all of those.
Culgrove, Sally:
My one year old son developed asthma because Mr. Gaddy shot a cow
next to us, 300' from our house and burned it for six weeks and burned
green wood for another four months. His workers would come out and
light it daily and leave it. That happened and you know what, we couldn't
call anybody. Nobody wanted to help us. We called the sheriff but
nobody wanted to take responsibility. My son developed asthma because
of that. It is really a tough thing that we have gone through and maybe
that is why we feel the way we do. My mom and dad were farmers and
we had dead animals and we had somebody come and get them, he never
burned them on the farm and we had 140 acres and never within 300' of
someone's home.
Aviles: Ma'am, I'm sorry. I am going to have to go ahead and just say that we
need to focus our attention on the subdivision and not on the other lands
on the land. What I had started to do was to ask Mr. Williams to tell us in
a county subdivision what it is that we are supposed to look at.
Williams: Basically, just as the staff has outlined it. We really don't have a
tremendous amount of power, especially in the county. As you said, the
County usually just goes along with whatever Fayetteville Planning
Commission agrees to within our planning area but they don't have to.
That is a decision that the quorum court has made and that is a political
body that can be influenced by citizen's who want to see something
different. This body is restricted to our ordinances and to what the County
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 56
allows us to do and that is what they are doing now is looking at the road
situation and that is all that this Planning Commission can do.
Aviles: Thank you for your comments and I am closing public discussion now.
We will go ahead and bear back if there is anything else the applicant has
to add or any other comments from Commissioners. Is there a motion or
further discussion?
MOTION:
Ward:
I will go ahead and make a motion that we approve PPL 03-7.00 for
Bridgewater Estates with 30 lots proposed instead of 31 and with all
conditions of approval.
Aviles: I have a motion for approval by Commissioner Ward, is there a second?
Bunch: I will second.
Aviles: There is a second by Commissioner Bunch. Renee, would you call the roll
please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 03-7.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Aviles: The motion carries unanimously.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 57
ADM 03-2.00: Administrative Item (Master Street Plan -46`h Street, pp 438) The
request is to amend the Master Street Plan to include changing 46`h Street to a Local
Street from a Collector Street and to add Broyles Avenue extension as a Collector Street.
Aviles: Tenth on our agenda this evening is ADM 03-2.00 for a Master Street Plan
amendment to 46th Street. The request is to amend the Master Street Plan
to include changing 46th Street to a local street from a collector street and
to add Broyles Avenue extension as a collector street. Sara?
Edwards: Yes. This is a city request. We are currently planning, as everyone
knows, a new sewer treatment plant to the southwest of the comer of
Persimmon and Broyles Avenue. As part of the construction of the plant
there will be heavy construction traffic. After the construction there will
be approximately two trucks per day to pick up sludge. Originally the
plans for the new plant included construction of roads and a bridge
through Farmington to access the site. Upon further review the city staff
has found that it would be more cost effective to find a route from
Wedington to this site. Subsequently, at the same time we had the
Preliminary Plat for Persimmon Place submitted for review and saw an
opportunity to accommodate a collector street through that subdivision
that would be the most cost effective way for the city and the developer
has agreed to do that. This route is easier for large trucks to maneuver and
is less costly than any other proposed route and it is an equally adequate
connection from persimmon Avenue to Wedington. The Street Committee
of the City Council has reviewed this proposal and has authorized the
pursuit of this route. We are currently in the process of acquiring the land
needed for Broyles Avenue to extend from this Persimmon Place
subdivision to Wedington Drive. We are recommending that you do
forward to City Council a recommendation of approval to change the
Master Street Plan.
Aviles: Is the applicant present?
Conklin: We are the applicant.
Aviles: Is there anyone from the public that wishes to address us on this item? I
will bring it back to the staff and to the Commission for further discussion
or motions.
MOTION:
Estes: Madam Chair, I would move for approval of ADM 03-2.00 to be
forwarded to the City Council with a recommendation of approval.
Aviles: Thank you Commissioner. I have a motion, do I hear a second?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 58
Shackelford: I will second.
Aviles: Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 03-2.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 59
PPL 03-1.00: Preliminary Plat (Persimmon Place, pp 438) was submitted by Chris
Brackett of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of ARC Construction for property located
at the northwest corner of 46th Avenue and Persimmon Street. The property is zoned R-1,
Low Density Residential and contains approximately 58.11 acres with 154 lots proposed.
Aviles: Number eleven is PPL 03-1.00 for Persimmon Place submitted by Chris
Brackett of Jorgensen & Associates on behalf of ARC Construction for
property located at the northwest corner of 46th Avenue and Persimmon
Street. The property is zoned R-1, Low Density Residential and contains
approximately 58.11 acres with 154 lots proposed. There are fifteen
conditions of approval, eleven through fifteen are standard. Do we have
signed conditions?
Edwards: Yes we do.
Aviles: Thank you. Would you give us the staff report please Sara?
Edwards: Yes. What we have is a 154 lot subdivision. We recently rezoned this
property subject to a Bill of Assurance. The proposal is meeting that
associated Bill of Assurance. In the previous item the developer agreed to
extend Broyles Avenue to the north through this site. Improvements to
Persimmon and 46th are both being proposed, which includes 14' from
centerline with curb, gutter, and storm drainage. Tree preservation right
now on this site there is 7.33% existing. The proposal is 6.03% to remain
and a contribution to our tree fund for mitigation in the amount of
$18,500. We are recommending approval subject to the conditions in the
staff report.
Aviles: Thank you. I am going to go ahead and read the conditions and then we
will hear from the applicant. 1) Compliance with the associated Bill of
Assurance. Covenants must be filed with the final plat which require
compliance. All fences and landscaping required by the Bill of Assurance
must be in place prior to final plat approval. 2) All utilities shall be
placed underground. 3) A floodplain development permit is required
prior to any work in the floodplain. 4) The covenants must provide for
maintenance of lot 155 which includes the detention pond. 5) Planning
Commission determination of required off-site improvements. Staff is
recommending that 46th and Persimmon be improved to include widening
to 14 feet from centerline with curb, gutter, and storm drainage. 6)
Planning Commission approval of the associated Master Street plan
amendment which adds Broyles as a Collector Street and changes 46th
Street from a collector to a local street. 7) Any damage caused by trucks
to 46th during the construction of this subdivision shall be repaired by the
developer at the developer's expense. 8) The proposed concrete privacy
fence shall be six feet in height. 9) Nine inch tall curbs shall be installed
along Broyles Avenue in order to allow for future overlays. 10) A 12
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 60
inch waterline shall be installed along Broyles Avenue within the
subdivision in lieu of requiring an 8 inch waterline within the subdivision
and north to Wedington Drive. The city will construct the remaining
portion of the 12 inch waterline from this subdivision boundary north to
Wedington Drive. In the event that the city elects not to construct the line,
the developer shall construct an 8 inch line through this subdivision north
to Wedington Drive. Conditions eleven through fifteen are standard. Is
the applicant present?
Brackett: Yes. My name is Chris Brackett, I am with Jorgensen & Associates. I am
here representing the owners of this project. I don't have a formal
presentation but I would be happy to answer any questions you might
have.
Aviles: Thank you very much. Is there any member of the public that would wish
to address us on this Preliminary Plat? Yes Sir, if you will come forward
and tell us your name and your address and give us the benefit of your
opinion.
Zieta:
Good evening. My name is Bassam Zieta my property is adjacent to the
north from the proposed development. I attended the Subdivision
Committee meeting and I had a list of issues that I brought up and I don't
know if staff has some kind of recommendation from the Traffic
Department. Let me tell you what my issues are and then hopefully
somebody will be able to answer some of them. I am not here to object to
this development. I am here to share with you some of my thoughts on
making this development a safe development. 46th Street is a safe
development. 46`h Street is a local street, it is 18' wide existing with
ditches on both sides. There is a sign on 46th Street as you enter that says
No Trucks. My understanding from staff is that this sign is for no trucks
for through traffic. We would highly recommend to the city to restrict
truck traffic from 7:00 to 8:00. The reason for that is I myself and all of
my neighbors are having a hard time making a right turn on 16 in the
morning. Traffic is extremely congested there. The speed limit is 50 miles
per hour. To have one truck try to make a turn, whether it is a right turn or
a left turn coming into 46th Street is going to create a lot of problems for
us. I would highly encourage the city to put a restriction on this
development as far as truck traffic from 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. The second
item is there is a sight distance problem past my street, which is Luttrell
Street. I have discussed that with the engineer, I have discussed that with
staff. I would like for someone to take a look at that because the first
entrance and the only entrance to this proposed subdivision on 46th Street
is about 150' from the end of my property. The speed of traffic, people
race on this street. I called the Traffic Department and they were kind
enough to do a speed study. I have a copy of the report, I don't know if
you all have a copy of it. There are some people that drive over 50 miles
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 61
per hour. In this report the maximum speed for the equipment the city
used is 50 so it could be above 50. We have a lot of children in the
neighborhood and with that sight distance problem we would recommend
that if the city could install a four way stop sign I think that will help to
reduce the speed limit. It protects the kids from crossing. Here is going to
be a sidewalk probably 1,200 linear feet with this development on 46th
Street. If you have a stop sign at least people will be able to cross, go
down south and use this sidewalk and hopefully in the future Persimmon
when it connects to the east we can walk to the Boys and Girls Club. The
other issue that I have is tree preservation. I think the consultant did a
great job showing all of these trees. The city has an ordinance on tree
preservation only protecting trees during construction. I have large trees
on my property. I have a 51" tree on my property. You probably all have
plans, you can see that. I think it is tree number three. I have some other
trees. I own the whole property adjacent to this development, I will have
about 8 lots behind me. I don't know if the city has any mechanism into
restricting any construction in the tree area. Limit any construction of any
structure that will impact each one of these trees. I will use lot number
three as an example. That is where the 51" tree is. If a property owner
buys that lot, the city has no restriction, they can't tell him not to build all
the way to the property line. That is my information. I would like to see
if there is some way to restrict any construction, not on the whole area
right there only where there are existing trees. It makes a lot of sense if
we are trying to preserve trees during construction we need to go all the
way to preserve these trees. If each property owner is going to come in
and damage some of these trees they are not going to die the next day. It
takes five to six years. These trees are extremely large trees. I would like
to see if you all would be able to help me on being able to try to preserve
these trees. The city is going to spend I don't know how much, over a
million dollars preserving trees on Mount Sequoyah. You don't have to
pay a penny to preserve these trees. These trees are the same. They are
not clustered but they are extremely large trees. I would look to the city to
help me out and whether you can put the tree preservation only on the area
where the large trees are. I am looking for input from you all or help.
Thank you.
Aviles: Thank you. We will see if we can answer your questions. Is there
anybody else from the audience that would like to address this Preliminary
Plat? Seeing no one, I will go ahead and close public discussion and bring
it back to the applicant and to the Commission and staff.
Bunch: A question for staff. What is the building setback on lots one through
thirteen down through there on the north side which would be the rear
setback?
Edwards: The standard rear setback is 20'.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 62
Bunch:
Edwards:
Aviles:
Brackett:
Aviles:
Brackett:
Shackelford:
Brackett:
Shackelford:
Brackett:
Shackelford:
Aviles:
That is by ordinance so it doesn't necessarily need to be dimensioned on
the drawing right?
Right. We will get it on there at the time of Final Plat.
Did you want to answer some of these questions?
As far as tree preservation we have moved the utility easements that are
normally on the back of those lots, we have moved the utilities to the front
of those lots specifically for those trees. We are following the ordinance
to the T as far as what we can do. The ordinance specifically rules out
single-family construction. I was on the committee that helped draft it.
We are really doing everything that I believe is asked of us by the
ordinance. As far as a tree easement, we really don't want anymore
restrictions on those lots after we have already moved the utilities on the
front, which is kind of a drawback for selling those lots. We don't want
an additional easement to where home builders will look at it and think of
it as another problem for that lot. With the rear setback I believe the trees
will be fine but I can't promise you.
Are the rear setbacks outside of the drip lines of the trees for the most
part?
I haven't scaled those off but I know that they are all 20' and the tree is
actually sitting on Mr. Zieta's property. I believe it will be. You may not
be out of the drip line completely but you will be out of the majority of it.
Over half of it is on his property.
Chris on condition number eight the proposed concrete privacy fence shall
be 6' in height. I am not following on here. Can you show me where this
proposed concrete privacy fence and specifically how many feet of
concrete fence are we talking about?
It will be along the right of way frontage of 46th and Persimmon which is
approximately almost 1,300 feet along 46th and it is almost 1,300 feet
along Persimmon and it will be 2' west and north of the right of way.
So we are talking over 2,600 linear feet of concrete?
Yes.
Thank you.
Tim, did Perry address any of the traffic concerns raised by Mr. Zieta?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 63
Edwards: I spoke with Perry today. He did go out and check the sight distance for
that driveway and he felt that it did meet the IT requirements, which is
what we go by when judging sight distance. Approximately 250' is the
sight distance there. I did also have him address the possibility of a stop
sign at the intersection of 46`h and Persimmon and typically the city does
not place stop signs on curbs. Right now it is not an intersection and
really we do not feel that there is a need for a stop sign at that point. Right
now there are curb warning signs with a recommended speed of 15 miles
per hour. 46th does have a speed limit of 25 miles per hour. I think that
covers it all.
Aviles: Thank you very much. The construction traffic in and out during
construction, do we have any ordinances that cover that?
Edwards: We do not have any ordinances that would limit hours of construction.
Aviles: That would be something that if you guys want to take up separately you
could but this Commission doesn't have anything to say about that.
Ward: Chris, on number eight, this proposed concrete privacy fence 6' in height,
I guess that is for the neighborhood and it is going to be a solid concrete
fence?
Brackett: My understanding is that the neighbors did not want to see the homes.
They wanted a permanent privacy fence and they felt that wood would
deteriorate soon so this was the compromise that we met. We did at one
time try to change that and go to a decorative privacy fence and that was
not the thing to do.
Shackelford: That was my question as well. Do we have any other situations in
Fayetteville where we have concrete privacy fences on two sides of a
subdivision?
Aviles: Not that I am aware of. To me that sounds more like a freeway isolator
than a subdivision isolator.
Conklin: I know one side, I can't think of any two side.
Williams: That was part of a Bill of Assurance when this property was rezoned so
that is pretty much the developer is stuck with that. He had to include that
in the plans.
Conklin: That is correct. They did try to amend the Bill of Assurance and the
neighbors wanted a concrete type privacy fence. The subdivisions that I
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 64
can think of off hand that have at least one side are Fieldstone, Savannah,
Park Place up front.
Aviles: Is this one going to be articulated?
Brackett: It wouldn't be to the developer's best interest to put up a cinder block
wall. It will be something that will look nice.
Shackelford: Tim, I am trying to remember when we made the motion to rezone this
property. Coming out of Planning Commission did we know at that point
that there was going to be a concrete wall? We just knew that there was
going to be a 6' screening, is that correct?
Conklin- I am not sure. It took a long time for this to advance through the City
Council and I think they had three neighborhood meetings and in the end I
think there was a fairly lengthy Bill of Assurance. I am not sure what
information the Commission had.
Shackelford: I don't remember seeing that requirement.
Conklin: Once again, this is not a requirement the city placed on there. It is
something that I'm not sure who came up with the idea, the developer or
the neighbors.
Shackelford: Thank you.
Estes:
Chris, with regard to Mr. Zieta's concerns regarding the tree preservation I
note that the criteria used by our Landscape Administrator to evaluate the
tree preservation plan is that many trees in the open pasture were in poor
condition and the developer is paying $18,550 into the City of Fayetteville
tree fund and that that tree fund will be utilized to plant high quality
species within the subdivision upon completion of the home construction.
How will that function? Will the developer draw on that fund and then
plant the trees or will the individual homeowners be encouraged to do so
or have you thought that through?
Brackett: That is actually something the city does. The money we give goes into a
tree fund that the City of Fayetteville comes down through and plants
street trees after the homes are built which was a need we understood from
the citizens when that was going through. The developer will have no part
in that as far as what trees or where they are planted. It is on the city to do
that. That is our only option by the way. Residential subdivisions do not
allow for us to mitigate ourselves on site. They require a donation to the
tree fund.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 65
MOTION:
Ward:
I will go ahead and make a motion for approval of PPL 03-1.00 for
Persimmon Place with a 58.11 acre site and 154 lots proposed and with all
15 conditions of approval.
Aviles: I have a motion by Commissioner Ward, is there a second?
Shackelford: I will second.
Aviles: There is a second by Commissioner Shackelford. Renee, would you call
the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve PPL 03-1.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Aviles: The motion carries unanimously.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 66
R-PZD 03-1.00: Planned Zoning District (Jackson Place, pp 255) was submitted by
Phil Hagan of Crafton, Tull & Associates on behalf of T -Crow, LTD for property located
at the southeast corner of Crossover and Skillern Road. The property is zoned A-1,
Agricultural and R-1, Low Density Residential and contains approximately 8.37 acres
with 14 residential lots proposed.
Aviles: Next on our agenda this evening is R-PZD 03-1.00 for Jackson Place
submitted by Phil Hagan of Crafton, Tull & Associates on behalf of T -
Crow Ltd. for property located at the southeast corner of Crossover and
Skillern. The property is zoned A-1, Agricultural and R-1, Low Density
Residential and contains approximately 8.37 acres with 14 residential lots
proposed. There are 15 conditions of approval. Ten through fifteen are
standard. Do we have signed conditions?
Edwards: We do not.
Aviles: Thank you. Sara, can you give us the staff report please?
Edwards: Yes. This is an R-PZD, which incorporates both the subdivision approval
and a rezoning approval. The proposal is a 14 lot subdivision. Right now
it is zoned both R-1 and A-1. There are floodplains and wetlands on the
site which are located to the west. The detention pond will be constructed
within the floodplain and some filling will be done within the floodplain to
allow for the lots to have 6,000 sq.ft. of buildable area. Street
improvements are planned for Old Wire Road to include curb, gutter, and
storm drainage. A new street is proposed interior to the subdivision with
water and sewer extension. The proposal meets all of the R-1 zoning
requirements with the exception of lot width. Lots 6, 7, and 8 are not 70'
in width at the front building setbacks as required in an R-1 district.
However, they will remain buildable for the size of structure that is
proposed. Draft covenants have been submitted with restrictions similar
to those found in the Brookbury subdivision located to the south. I would
like to point out that this item must also be heard at City Council for
approval. Tree preservation, right now existing on site is 80.1%, the
proposal is for 52.8% to remain. We are recommending that this be
forwarded to the City Council with a recommendation of approval of the
requested rezoning and that Planning Commission approve the proposed
development subject to the conditions as part of this staff report. Also, we
have incorporated findings required for a Planned Zoning District and the
associated rezoning and found this development to meet all the required
findings.
Aviles: Thank you very much. I am going to go ahead and read the conditions of
approval. 1) Planning Commission recommendation to the City Council
regarding the rezoning of the subject property to the unique district for R-
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 67
PZD 03-1.00 with all conditions of approval as determined by the
Planning Commission. 2) Planning Commission determination of
required off-site improvements. Staff is recommending that curb, gutter,
and storm drainage be added to Old Wire Road immediately adjacent to
the site. 3) Lots will not be permitted to access Old Wire Road. 4) All
signs must be approved by Planning Commission at the time of final plat
approval. 5) A final plat must be processed prior to the sale of any lots.
6) All utilities shall be placed underground. 7) An ordinance creating
this R-PZD shall be approved by City Council. 8) The detention pond
shall be enlarged to allow for the removal of the drainage swale to rear of
lots 6 through 8 in order preserve trees and a vegetative buffer along the
rear of these lots. 9) Easements along the rear of lots 4 thorough 8 shall
be relocated to the fronts of these lots in order to preserve trees and a
vegetative buffer along the rear of these lots. 10) Plat Review and
Subdivision comments (to include written staff comments provided to the
applicant or his representative, and all comments from utility
representatives. 11) Staff approval of final detailed plans, specifications
and calculations (where applicable) for grading, drainage, water, sewer,
fire protection, streets (public and private), sidewalks, parking lot(s) and
tree preservation. The information submitted for the plat review process
was reviewed for general concept only. All public improvements are
subject to additional review and approval. All improvements shall comply
with City's current requirements. 12) Payment of parks fees in the
amount of $7,215.00 (13 new units @ $555) 13) Sidewalk construction
in accordance with current standards to include a minimum six foot
sidewalk with a ten foot greenspace along Old Wire and a minimum four
foot sidewalk with a six foot greenspace on both sides f the proposed
street. 14) Large scale development shall be valid for one calendar year.
15) Prior to the issuance of a building permit the following is required:
Grading and drainage permits; Separate easement plat for this project that
shall include the tree preservation area. Is the applicant present?
Zimmerman: Hello, my name is Julie Zimmerman with Crafton, Tull & Associates and I
am here on behalf of the owner. I don't have a presentation but I will be
glad to try to answer any questions you might have.
Aviles: Thank you very much. I will go ahead and take public comment. Is there
any member of the public that would like to address us on this Residential
Planned Zoning District? Yes, please come up and give us your name,
address, and the benefit of your opinion please.
Calloway: My name is Pauline Calloway. My address is 3061 Skillern, which is next
door to this property. I don't like the idea of a concrete fence so that
would be one thing I would want to know about if they were going to put a
concrete fence up. I know that is the other one.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 68
Aviles:
Calloway:
Aviles:
Calloway:
Aviles:
Calloway:
Aviles:
Quattlebaum:
Aviles:
Zimmerman:
No, I don't think we have one proposed for this.
Another thing that I'm not sure about is the trees. Some of the trees are
very, very large and even though they are not on my property they are
toward the back of my property and I am wondering if they are going to be
gone. Someone from some place up here was going to come out and walk
the property with me and we were going to discuss some of these things.
The lines are going to be underground is that right? The house nearest the
street, I don't see how it can be as large as they say the house is going to
be on this small of a lot. Also, that brings to mind, if they straighten that
road out and they put the stop signs on Old Wire, Skillern Road they
already drive very, very fast and if that road is straightened out with stop
signs I don't know how the people will ever get out.
We actually went through this at agenda and I remember the intersection
pretty well. Do you have any other questions?
No.
We will try to go through those and have the applicant and the staff
answer your concerns.
Ok.
Thank you very much. Is there any other member of the public that would
like to address on this Planned Zoning District?
My name is Charlotte Quattlebaum, I live at 3040 Summershade Drive. I
am actually Ms. Calloway's backdoor neighbor. I had two concerns on
the property. One is drainage. There is a small drainage area on Ms.
Calloway's property and it is about 10' back from my property that drains
down into this area. Our biggest concern is that that drainage area still
goes, that it will drain out into that creek and doesn't back up into the
property. The second one was the tree cover with the large trees that are at
the back of the property. Phil Hagan did volunteer to walk that property
but that property has quite a bit of water on it right now. We are wanting
to follow up with them on that and to do over the trees that would be
removed as well as how that drainage is going to work flowing down to
the creek.
Thank you. I will close public comment now. Would you like to go
ahead and respond to these questions?
For the comment about the drainage ditch along the south side of the
property, it was one of the concerns, I believe Sam Turner is also a
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 69
Aviles:
Zimmerman:
Aviles:
Edwards:
Estes:
property owner along the south side and he was more concerned about
saving the trees rather than the drainage issue so we proposed to remove
the swale along the south property line and locate any proposed utilities to
the front of the lots of 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 and save the trees rather than the
drainage swale and then we will try to collect as much offsite drainage as
we can in the street and upsize the storm sewer and the detention pond if
necessary. It is basically we will do either thing, we will either work on
saving the trees or we will keep the drainage swale, whichever you want
us to do.
That can be a dynamic process during the design of this development?
Yes.
Sara, can you add to that about the intersection?
I did also talk to Perry about this issue today and what we will do as a city
is go ahead and place a stop sign on Old Wire and at the entrance to this
development as well as leave the one on Skillern Road until we can
determine what the best thing will be and if there are some intersection
redesign that needs to be done we need to look at that. For right now we
are willing to leave that stop sign to control speeds.
From the plat material that we have I notice that we have before us
Jackson Place a Planned Zoning District Bentonville, Arkansas. I think it
is a splendid idea that we exercise superintendence authority over
Bentonville I just wanted to know what is our statutory authority for doing
so.
Zimmerman: That was a little accident.
Aviles:
Zimmerman:
Shackelford:
Edwards:
Shackelford:
I assume you will get a new cover sheet before this goes any further.
Definitely.
Sara, on the stop sign issue, you said there would be a stop sign on Old
Wire Road. Will that be a stop sign for traffic that is coming south on Old
Wire Road as well as traffic that is going east? Will there be two stop
signs there or will there be one?
It will be for traffic going south.
So the traffic coming off of Hwy. 265 and going east, if they are
continuing on through that S corner they will not have a stop sign correct?
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 70
Edwards: That is right.
Hoover: I have a comment, I was reading carefully through the notes here and I
wish I would've noticed this earlier, I would like staff to confirm this and
talk about this a little bit here. It says that maximum density served by a
cul-de-sac is 40 units, this is a requirement we have in our PZD? I am just
curious because now I am relating it something else that came through
tonight.
Conklin: We have a Residential street that states a maximum 24 hour volume is 300
to 500 vehicles per day. A single-family home produces about 10 trips per
day so it is within that range.
Hoover: You are saying that is how we determined to establish 40 units is the
maximum number we could put on a cul-de-sac?
Conklin- That is similar to our Master Street Plan standard.
Aviles: Commissioners? I will go ahead and make a motion to approve this PZD
subject to all staff comments. You have not signed those, do you have any
questions about any of those?
Zimmerman: No, I did fax it back.
Aviles: Ok, so we will go ahead with the 15 conditions as stated in the agenda. I
am making this motion because every since I joined the Planning
Commission however many years ago I have been looking for a PZD and
it is my pleasure to make a motion to approve one before I'm off. With
that being said I will make a motion.
Ward: I will second.
Aviles: I have a second by Commissioner Ward.
Shackelford: I am still somewhat concerned about traffic on that corner. If you are
coming east on Old Wire and you don't have a stop sign and you are
coming through an intersection where there are stop signs from two
directions I am still not sure that we have alleviated the situation of trying
to get off of Skillern Road and out of this neighborhood. Obviously this
goes beyond this development and we don't need to slow down this
development for this question but at what point will the city readdress that
issue and look at the overall safety of that intersection?
Edwards: Our Traffic Superintendent, Perry Franklin, wants to leave the stop sign on
Skillern while we look at how it works with this new street coming in. We
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 71
are not willing to make a final commitment as to how that intersection
design will work until we see how that functions. Long term our goal is to
keep the traffic free flowing on Skillern. Once we get it better designed
we are going to need to narrow that intersection.
Shackelford: Thank you.
Aviles: Is there anybody else?
Ostner: I have a question. I am not certain but it looks like this street is 24' wide
curb to curb. I wanted to thank you for that. That is an option, you
could've gone bigger and I think that is the way to go. I appreciate that.
Aviles: Renee, would you call the roll please?
Roll Call: Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve R-PZD 03-1.00
was approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Aviles: The motion carries unanimously. Thank you.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 72
ADM 03-6.00: Administrative Item (UDO) was submitted by the Planning Division of
the City of Fayetteville for adoption of the codification of the Unified Development
Ordinance, Title 15 of the City of Fayetteville Code of Ordinances with proposed
amendments.
Aviles: Item thirteen on our agenda is ADM 03-6.00 for the UDO which was
submitted by the Planning Division of the City of Fayetteville for adoption
for the codification of the Unified Development Ordinance, Title 15 of
the City of Fayetteville Code of Ordinances with proposed amendments.
Dawn?
Warrick: You all should've received big binders with the draft Unified
Development Ordinance in it. As well as this evening we distributed an
amendment that included a revised memo and some updated pages to
include in that document. Title 15 of the Unified Development Ordinance
of the Code for the City of Fayetteville was adopted by ordinance number
4100 June 16, 1998. Since that time we have been working off of that
original document and every ordinance that has been passed has basically
just been appended to it and has not been codified into the original
document. At this time we have made some updates and we are proposing
that we forward the codified Unified Development Ordinance, Title 15 to
the City Council for adoption. The memo that is included with your
booklets incorporates findings that the revised Unified Development
Ordinance includes all ordinances that have been passed since it's last
adoption through December 31, 2002. You will remember that at that
point we decided to stop processing ordinances that revised or amended
Title 15 so that we could focus on bringing to you this codification and
move forward to get this to the point that it is much more user friendly
applicable document. There are some general updates in the document
throughout we have modified the document by removing the term mobile
home and replacing it with manufactured home. That is to reflect industry
terminology. We have also, in each instance replaced the title City Planner
with Zoning and Development Administrator. That is to reflect new
reorganization within city government. It does not change the function of
the Unified Development Ordinance, it changes the title of the individual
who interprets the UDO. Continuing on in the memo, we have basically
identified each of the changes within the chapters, the Unified
Development Ordinance contains 25 chapters and I don't know if you
want me to read through each of these changes. The reason that you have
an amendment from the time that we talked at the agenda session has to do
primarily with new information that the City Attorney has passed our way
with regard to legislation that has gone through state legislation and is in
the form of a bill ready to be signed by the governor with regard to
manufactured housing. Mr. Williams, I don't know if you want to expand
on that any. We have basically modified one of our zoning districts.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 73
Williams: I am sorry that I couldn't get the memo any quicker to you all on this but it
was only on Friday that I learned that they had actually passed this bill.
With the governor's previous fairly close contacts with the manufactured
housing industry I am sure he is going to sign this bill. I though it would
make sense when we are recodifying to try to take that into consideration
and the changes I suggested attempted to keep us as much in the status quo
as we can be at this point in time. We did have to make some changes and
alterations in order to comply with what will be the future state law and
I'm sorry I couldn't get the memo to you any earlier. I thought about
trying to mail it to you but Friday my secretary was sick so there was just
no way that I could get the memo to you any earlier.
Aviles: This represents a huge body of work and I want to commend the staff of
the City Attorney's office for undertaking it because it is a complicated
document and to get it in order is no small task.
Williams: I would love to take the credit but most of the credit goes to the Planning
Division who did the vast majority of the work on this. We worked with
them but I think that they are the responsible party for getting the Unified
Development Ordinance to you in this shape and I recommend it for your
approval.
Aviles: I would like to recommend tonight that we go ahead and move this on to
the City Council. If anybody has any specific questions about anything in
it we can incorporate those before it gets to City Council. I have looked
through it and nothing jumped out at me but I'm sure as I say, with as
many sections and cross sections and references, that there is probably
something to change but that can be handled before it goes to City
Council.
Warrick: I will note that there is some relatively substantial change just in the
nomenclature for our zoning districts and we have modified the way that
we name our zoning districts to better reflect the density and the use that is
permitted within the residential districts. That is something that will
probably require a pretty steep learning curve for those of us that are very
familiar with the current district nomenclature. It doesn't change the uses,
it doesn't change the setbacks, the densities, it just changes the description
and name of various residential zoning districts.
Aviles: Nothing about the development process has changed so you will have an
opportunity to get the developers in on the learning curve and give them a
handout on that specific change.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 74
MOTION:
Hoover:
Bunch:
Aviles:
Ostner:
Conklin:
Aviles:
Roll Call:
Aviles:
I would like to make a motion that we approve ADM 03-6.00 and thank
the staff for our whole new UDO.
I will second.
There is a motion by Commissioner Hoover and a second by
Commissioner Bunch, is there anybody else?
I just want to thank you again. This is a huge endeavor and for all the
times that I have been mean, that I wasn't given a book that made any
sense, I take most of them back. This is much better than the old one and
it took a lot of work.
I appreciate that and as city staff, we owe to the Commissioners, the City
Council, the citizens and the developers a set of development ordinances
that we can put on line and get updated. We used to outsource this and we
are doing it in house and hopefully this will go through, Council will adopt
it and we can get this on our website and get the information out about
grading and tree preservation and all the other development ordinances we
have for the City of Fayetteville.
Thanks. Renee?
Upon the completion of roll call the motion to approve ADM 03-6.00 was
approved by a vote of 9-0-0.
Thanks Renee. The motion carries unanimously.
Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 75
Report of the Nominating Committee:
Aviles: Finally on our agenda this evening we have the report of the Nominating
Committee with Nancy Allen as Chair.
Allen:
Before I make the report of the Nominating Committee on behalf of the
rest of the Commissioners I certainly want to thank Commissioners Aviles
and Ward for their six years of tireless service to the Planning
Commission and your sagacious words will be missed. The Nominating
Committee has nominated Sharon Hoover as Chair, Bob Estes as Vice
Chair, and Don Bunch as Secretary.
Aviles: Then you will vote on that at the first meeting in April.