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Home My WebLink About2000-04-26 - Minutes• • • MINUTES OF A MEETING OF TECHNICAL PLAT REVIEW A regular meeting of the Technical Plat Review Committee was held on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 9:00 a.m. in Room 111 of the City Administration Building, 113 West Mountain, Fayetteville, Arkansas. ITEMS CONSIDERED LS 00-11.00 & 15.00 Hahn, pp 651 LS 00-12.00 Southerland, pp 520 LS 00-13.00 Nelson, pp173 LS 00-14.00 Hooker Construction, pp 209 LSD 00-9.00 Hooker Construction, pp 209 MEMBERS PRESENT Mike Campbell, SWEPCO Robert Falk, Southwestern Bell Bill Smith, Southwestern Bell Johney Boles, AR Western Gas Mike Phipps, Ozark Electric STAFF PRESENT Tim Conklin Sam Edwards Ron Petrie Kim Rogers Perry Franklin Chuck Rutherford ACTION TAKEN Forward w/revisions Forward w/revisions Forward w/revisions Forward w/revisions Forward w/revisions MEMBERS ABSENT Kevin Lefler, Cox Communications STAFF ABSENT Mickey Jackson Cheryl Zotti Kim Hesse • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 2 Plat Review Committee, Wednesday April 26, 2000, 9:00 am. I'm Tim Conklin the City Planner. LS 00-11.00 & 15.00 HAHN, PP 651 The first item of business is LS 00-11 for Hahn located at 2350 Van Hoose drive in the city growth area. It contains approximately 36.55 acres. The request is to split the property into three tracts of 32 10 acres, 3 29 acres, and 1.16 acres. Staff Reports Conklin: I will start with our Development Coordinator, Sara Edwards. Edwards: Okay. Do we have a representative? If you will come on up please Hahn: I'm Don Hahn. • Edwards: Bob Hahn? Hahn: Don. Don Hahn. • Edwards: Don. Okay. What we are looking for in addition to the survey we need a plat page which is just a city reference system of 651. And I have a copy of this for you. And we would like you to show adjacent property within 300 feet so we can look at the curb cuts of adjacent properties to make sue they are not too close to one another when you go to put one in. We need you to add a vicinity map. Hahn: Vicinity map? Edwards: Yes. Showing where it is located in this city. What other streets are near it. Kind of like, something like that. Hahn: Well, there are no other streets. Conklin: Well, you need to go far enough out so the utility companies and staff can figure out how to get to this piece of property. So the Planning Commission will be able to tell where this is located within our growth area. If it takes more than a mile, go out two miles to get to the nearest street. • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 3 Hahn: Conklin: Hahn: Edwards: Hahn: Edwards. • Hahn: Edwards: Petrie: • Hahn: Petrie: Hahn: Petrie: Hahn: Well, Van Hoose Drive makes a loop around and Hondo Lane goes off of it. That's all there is there. Well if you can go up to Huntsville Road that would give an idea that it's south of Huntsville Road. So, when the Planning Commissioners or nine volunteers are looking at this they will be able to figure out where that's at, located. Your surveyor will understand what we're looking for. Okay. We also need a floodplain reference just saying that this property is not effected by the hundred year floodplain and he'll know what we are talking about. And a legal description of the parent tract of the property before the split. Right now we've just got the two that are being split tracts. We don't have the overall. It should have been in the packet there. We just want it added to the survey. Okay. Ron do you have any comment? Yes. Ron Petrie, Engineering Department. We have a 4" water line on the east side of Van Hoose and also a 2" water line on the north side of County Road or Hondo Lane, and I'm not sure where those water lines are located. I am. It runs on the 3.5 acre tract it runs right along the road and on the 1.5 acre or acre it runs on the other side of the road. It crosses over somewhere in there. It's on the south side of the road instead of the north side. That water tap has already been made and the meter is set. Okay. What, the reason I'm asking, I'm just trying to determine if I need some easement along those roads and more than likely these utilities companies are going to want an easement too. So, more than likely we need to see a 20' utility easement along both of those roads. Should have had that years ago. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 4 Petrie: We may have. But it should have been shown on the survey if we had it. So, I'm going to request that it be added. The only other comment, we do want to limit the amount of taps off this 2" so this tract 2, whatever it's going to have it's going to be one resident, we really want to see that come off this 4" instead of this 2". That's all. Phipps: Mike Phipps, Ozark Electric. Don, we have overhead power lines running all over this tract, above all these tracts and they have a 30' easement with them so if the surveyor could tie those down to this property. I know I have a line along County 140 and a line along 139 that has, should be on the right of way, road right of way, we have 15' each side. They are not recorded easements, they were just signed by the property owners when we built into them and extended the lines to there. So if the surveyor could tie them down I mean, you know it's, it would help. I know we've got one up the 40 line, we have a power line going up that 40 line so there is an easement there. I really don't need anymore easements. I've got all I need running thru there. Now if a line is in the way of a house that's being constructed, we will relocate that. If they just can't put the house anywhere else, we'll relocate a line for that. Boles: Hahn: Boles: Johney Boles, Arkansas Western Gas. Don, I would ask that you would show a 20' utility easement adjacent to the right of way on Van Hoose Lane and on Hondo Lane also. Okay, Johney your line does not go up Van Hoose. I understand but we may need to expand it in the future so now is the time that I need to request the easement. Hahn: Okay. Boles: That's all I have. Conklin: Is that a 20' easement? Boles: On the north side of Hondo Lane. Conklin: Okay, I mean, but Ron asked for the 20' utility easement. Everyone in the same easement? Peter: Yes. • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 5 Boles: Right. Falk: Bob Falk, Southwestern Bell Telephone. If we get the aforementioned easements listed that will satisfy our needs too. Hahn: Johney, what about, I guess I misunderstood you there, on Van Hoose where the 3.5 acres is? Boles: Don, we would need it the full length of the road frontage property from here to here and from this point all the way to this point. Hahn: Okay. That will work where the water line is? Boles: Yes it will. Edwards: If you want to go ahead and continue with this we will need the new survey by 10:00 on May 3'. Ok? • Hahn: Kind of expensive to give property away isn't it? • Conklin: If you have any questions please feel free to contact our office. Thank you very much. Hahn: Thank you. • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 6 LS 00-12.00 SOUTHERLAND, pp 520 Conklin: The second item on our agenda is LS 00-12 submitted by Bob Hill of Nickel -Hill Group on behalf of Faye Southerland. Property located at 1740 W 6`h Street. The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and is approximately 1.86 acres. The request is to split the tracts into two tracts of 1 13 acres and .70 acres. We will start with Sara Edwards. Edwards: First of all, 6th Street is a principal arterial which requires a minimum 10' green space and 6' sidewalk. And our Traffic Superintendent would like for you to... Conklin: Hold on a second. Edwards: Do you understand? Conklin: Do you understand 6`11 Street. Hwy 62? Reed: I understand the street being there. Conklin: Okay. Reed: I understand the sidewalk is there already isn't it? Conklin: It doesn't meet our standards. Reed: Okay. So I need to put a new sidewalk in. Edwards: Can I get your name please? Reed: Allen Reed. So if there is an existing sidewalk it needs to be upgraded then? Conklin: Yes. Rutherford: That's an asphalt sidewalk that the highway department that needs to be removed and a green space provided within the 10' and 6' wide. Reed: The green space between the curb and the sidewalk? • Rutherford: Yes. They are on a 10' green space and a 6' sidewalk and the asphalt that is there will be removed. • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 7 Edwards: Ok, and we'd just like for you to change, you called it U.S. Hwy 62 and State Hwy 45 and we believe probably it should be called State Hwy 180. Reed: Okay. Hill: Bob Hill, Nickle-Hill Group. Will the sidewalk ordinance come into play just for the lot split or can that be part of the large scale development? The reason we are splitting this is that we are splitting this is that we are selling the front portion that is zoned C-2 and remainder is still, will be owned by the current owner. We are selling, it's under contract to sell and they will be coming to the city for a large scale development within the next fifteen, twenty days I'm sure. Can that be a part, the sidewalk, be a part of that? Because, if that doesn't go thru I know the 92 year old owner does not want to pay for a sidewalk if she doesn't have to. Rutherford. Well, my comment on that would be yes it can happen. But if for some reason the large scale development did not come forward and the lot split continued on then it would be required • Hill: Can the lot split be contingent upon the LSD approval? Conklin: So they will not split the property until after the large scale development goes through? Hill: Well, I think they'd like to go ahead and split it unless they have to pay for the sidewalk. Just to get the split and then if the sale doesn't go thru they have a sidewalk there that may not work for the next development. Conklin: Because you would have to, once you get your approval and conditions, you don't have to go forward with that lot split. You have approvals but if you don't want to meet those conditions you just wait. Hill: Okay. And there is a time period... Conklin: If they get approval and they decide well we don't want to do the sidewalk right now, we don't want to record a deed, you're not going to have us stamp a deed of approval, approving that, you just can wait until you sell the property. Hill: Okay. • Conklin: And then we are not going to let, we aren't going to stamp the deed until the sidewalk is in. Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 8 Hill: Rutherford: Hill: Edwards: Conklin: Reed: Conklin: Hill: Conklin: Reed: Conklin: Reed: Conklin: Reed: Conklin: Reed: Okay. That's fine. I think that can work. Okay. Okay. We would like you to label the adjacent zoning. Show the property on that side, right under that. Show the layout of adjoining property for 300 feet including curb cuts again so we can make sure the curb cuts are properly spaced along 6th Street. We would like a new site plan showing just what you want split at this time because I don't understand it. You are only splitting this half into two here. Right? Why don't you go ahead and explain because I'm confused too. What are the existing property lines and what are the proposed property lines on this? And how many lots are, how many existing lots do we have and how many lots are we ending up with? What we have is two lots and we want four. And all we are trying to do is split them at the city zoning line. Okay. But we are just asking for one of the lots this morning. Okay, so we have two lots running north, south. Right. Between Mitchell and Hwy 62. Right. And we want to split it at the zoning line. Okay and you want to split it at the zoning line. So you are only requesting one split right now which is just this one? Correct. But we are showing both? Right. That was just for the owner's sake. It's an older, elderly woman and we • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 9 tried to show her everything that was happening. Conklin: Okay. And then you're telling me that in 30 days they are going to come back through with a large scale development for both of these? Hill: No. Just this one lot. Conklin: Just this, just that one. Hill: Yes. These are two sisters that own the lots We just had it done all at once. Edwards. I just don't want this in our files showing a lot split on both these lots so that we don't have any confusion on that. Conklin: I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something here but it's difficult to figure out how many lots we have when we are shown four. Maybe we could label it somehow or do something. • Hill: I'll just remove it. Conklin: Okay. • Edwards: We are requiring an additional right of way dedication of 15 feet because 6`h Street is a principal arterial. And that will move your building setback lines back even further and put you onto the house. Is that, that house will be removed? Hill: Yes. Edwards: Okay. We won't worry about setbacks then for that house. But it will move back so both those lots will show it. Okay? Hill: Okay. Edwards: And we will need that dedicated by warranty deed. On Mitchell we will also require an additional 5' dedication. Hill: Okay. Edwards: Okay. And that is not by warranty deed. Reed: What's the difference there? • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 10 Edwards. State Highway. 6th Street is a State Highway Conklin: Highway Department has requested all right of ways be by warranty deed. Edwards- Do we have an idea what will be on this other lot? Will it be possible, well we would like a shared access if at all possible. Reed: Can you make that a condition of the large scale development as far as curb cuts because right now there are no plans. Edwards: Yes. I'm just recommending it. Reed: As far as the adjoining curb cuts won't that be shown on large scale rather than tract split? What we are trying to do is split this at the zoning line. We're not trying to show a development. Conklin: I don't have any problem with that. • Hill: Can you go to the other owner and say, you know, we want a shared curb cut at this point for the large scale development. • Edwards: We'd like to see that, yes. Hill: And we can do that? Conklin: Yes. Hill: Okay. Edwards. That's all the comments I have. Petrie: Ron Petrie, Engineering Department. We have what I believe is a 25' utility easement along Hwy 180. You have it shown on your vicinity map but at this time we would not be asking for any additional easement. And I just want to verify that there is no grading or anything that's associated with this lot split. Hill: Reed: No sir. Ron, I have a question. Now we have that 55' of right of way for sewer lines, are we asking for 25' with that? • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 11 Petrie: No. Show the existing easement. Reed: Okay. Petrie: We do have some water and sewer thru there that I need. That's all. Campbell: Michael Campbell with SWEPCO. I don't have any comments on the lot split. I'll wait and see if the easements are sufficient on the large scale. Boles: Johney Boles, Arkansas Western Gas. I would request a 20' utility easement on the south side of Mitchell Street. The existing 25' on the north side of Hwy 180, 62 whatever it is, will be sufficient. Conklin: That will leave, after we take your right of way, that's going to leave you 10'. So it works out okay. So show a new right of way and then show 20' beyond the new right of way. Reed: That's my question. Boles: Yes. Conklin: Okay. 20' beyond the new right of way. Hill: Is there no gas along there now? Boles: Yes, there is a gas line there now. Faulk: Bob Faulk, Southwestern Bell. The aforementioned easements satisfy the telephone company. Conklin: Any other Staff comments for utility? Reed: I just have one more question. Conklin: Yes. Reed: On the additional right of ways on the highway, is that right of way just parallel to the centerline's existing highway or are we paralleling them back? Conklin: Center line. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 12 Reed: Okay. Thank you. Conklin: Thank you very much. Revisions are due... Edwards: May 3`d by 10:00 am. Hill: Thank you. LS 00-13.00 NELSON, pp 173 • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 13 Our next item on our agenda is item LS 00-13 submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen and Associates on behalf of Orena Nelson for property located at the NE corner of Joyce Boulevard and Mall Avenue. This property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial and contains 4.05 acres. The request is to split into two tracts of 2 acres and 2.04 acres. Conklin: Jorgensen: Conklin: Edwards: • Jorgensen: • Edwards: Petrie: Jorgensen: Conklin: Jorgensen: Conklin: Petrie: Good morning Dave. Good morning. My name is Dave Jorgensen and as you can see this is located right across from Mervice Merchandise west of the Simmon's First Bank. We are splitting it to leave 2 acres right there at the comer. I'll start with Sara Edwards our Development Coordinator. Sidewalks will be required at the time of development. Please add adjacent zoning. Add plat page 173 to title block. I was going to say show layout of adjoining property but we can also push that back to the large scale. I need a floodplain reference and I did call you about the legal description. Uh huh. You know I need that revised at the with a better point of beginning. Dimension the right of way from centerline. Joyce Boulevard is a principal arterial that requires 55' from centerline to be dedicated. There will be an additional 15'. That's all I have. Ron Petrie, Engineering. Just to state probably what's obvious, when these two lots are developing that extra lane of Joyce Boulevard will be required. Just the same thing Simmons did and then also Circuit City. There is no grading or any other activity planned with this lot split is that correct? That's correct. Dave I just had one question. Lot 3A is the restaurant we talked about? Right. So we could have a situation where we will have that lane constructed up to lot 3B kind of the area between 3B More than likely the city would go ahead and finish that. We would have to work that out, possible cost share. Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 14 Conklin: Campbell: Boles: Jorgensen: Boles: Faulk: Jorgensen: Faulk: Jorgensen: Faulk: Conklin: Thank you Ron. Michael Campbell, SWEPCO. I'd like a 20' utility easement split along the north, south property boundary between 3A and 3B and a 10' utility easement on the east side of lot 3B running north and south. Johney Boles, Arkansas Western Gas. The easements requested are fine. Dave I would let you know that when this property develops that it's not in my service territory. You need to call James Boyd would you like his telephone numbr? Yes. 582-8652. That's all the comment I have. Bob Faulk, Southwestern Bell. The easements will be satisfactory. You say there is a restaurant probably going in up there? Yes. Right there at the corner. Okay. If they are going to want a temporary service for the construction trailer they need to get a hold of me. Okay. That's all the comments I have Any other Staff members or utility have any other comments on this? Cox Communications comments are, they do not have cable in the area. Request developer to contact me as the project proceeds to build cable with electric company. Thank you very much That's it. LS 00-14.00 HOOKER CONSTRUCTION, pp 209 • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 15 Item number four on today's agenda is LS 00-14 submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen and Associates on behalf of Hooker Construction for property located at 1409 W Van Asche. The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial contains approximately 2.34 acres. The request is to split the property into two tracts of 1 17 acres and 1.17 acres. Conklin: I'll start with Sara. Edwards: First of all we would like to see additional locations for solid waste containers and you can contact Cheryl Zotti, Environmental Affairs Administrator about that. Van Asche is a principal arterial requiring a minimum 10' green space with a minimum 6' sidewalk and the sidewalk needs to be added to the legend. Street lights are required every 300' at street intersections and at the end of the street. You can contact Perry Franklin for location. Each ADA space must be van accessible. You need to add plat page 209 to the title block. We'd like you to show the Design Overlay District Boundary to the vicinity map and the plat if it applies. If it cuts thru there. As far as the parking spaces our calculations come to 20 spaces so we are a little bit shy on that. And I can show you how I calculated that if you have any questions. Jorgensen: Okay. Edwards: Furthermore, in the Design Overlay District you are required to have between 5' of green space and parking can not encroach into that green space. So that's going to take out about three spots there. Jorgensen: Okay. Is that in here? Edwards: Yes. Now the setback is encroaching into that existing building which normally would require Board of Adjustment approval, however, we can reduce the setback from 50 to 25' with additional landscaping if you would like to go with that option. That way that building will not be in the setback. Conklin: This one right here? Edwards. Yes. Hooker: Morgan Hooker. What would the, what about the Board of Adjustments? Conklin: I think you can meet it with landscaping that you have. • Hooker: Okay. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 16 Edward: Hooker: Edwards: Conklin: Edwards: Conklin: Jorgensen: Conklin: Petrie: Hooker: Petrie: • Jorgensen: Petrie: Jorgensen: All new utilities shall be located underground. Are you going to use any monument signs? No. No problem with that. I guess we don't need the elevations then. What about, where are we, in the large scale? Yes. I'm doing them both together. You can talk about that. Okay. Are we looking at both sites then in your building, the one to the east, do we know if they are going to have a sign on this project? Just mounted on the building Okay. I wanted to clarify that. Why don't we go ahead and take utility comments first. Then we will come back and talk about Commercial Design Standards. That is the last item on the agenda and that way we won't take up your time talking about what the building looks like unless you really want to sit here and talk about it. Go ahead Ron. Ron Petrie, Engineering. My first comment had to do with fire protection. I think Mickey Jackson did not have any comments so that seems to be satisfied. These buildings won't be sprinkled is that right? No. We have a 36" water line along Van Asche on the south side of Van Asche. I provided you a copy of water and sewer out there from our maps. That 36" on this map is not shown entirely correct. It's actually on the south side of that sewer line. It's shown to be right on top of one another. You can see we don't have record of this crossing across Van Asche that you have shown. We show the fire hydrants come off that 36" water line. You say you do show the fire hydrant coming off the 36"? Yes sir. I'm not, and our maps may not be entirely accurate, I'm not sure. I'm just saying we don't have any record of this crossing shown. Okay. • Plat Review Minutes Apnl 26, 2000 Page 17 Petrie: Jorgensen: Petrie: Jorgensen: Petrie: • Jorgensen: • Petrie: Jorgensen: Petrie: Hooker: Peter: The meter locations are required to be up near the right of way unless specifically approved by Don Osborne. You show the meter to the office spaces on the east to come off this line In that particular instance we would require them to come from the 6" line and put a meter in front of this lot instead of crossing over lots like is shown. Okay. For sewer, is this existing building on sewer? City sewer? I was wondering about that. I don't think it is. But I mean the sewer is there so I guess we need to find that out. It's going to be leased That's what is shown. We would require that to be connected if it's not already. I requested a 20' utility easement across lot 2 for the sewer extension back to the east and just move that manhole back to the south a little bit to line up in that easement. Does that make sense? Did you follow that? Do what? That easement across lot 2, for the sewer to be extended sometime in the future, back this way. Oh, I see. Okay. And just move this manhole a little bit to the south to line up into the easement. Drainage and grading were acceptable as preliminary. I'm not asking for the sewer. Our plans are possible to add onto that building out the back and we wouldn't want an easement because... I tell you what, if we could get an easement along the rear of the property that would be sufficient. Jorgensen: North and south boundary area? Petrie: Edwards: Yeah, that would provide an access over to that sewer of that other property. Is that 20' • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 18 Petrie: 20' Phipps: Make that a utility easement. Petrie: 20' wide enough? Phipps: Yes. Petrie: The only other comment I had on grading, is there is two proposed contour lines that's labled 1226. You can just correct that. That's all I've got. Phipps: Mike Phipps, Ozark Electrict. You say we've got a 25' utility easement on the west side? 15' on 10'? Jorgensen: Well, there is an existing 15' and we propose another 10'. Is that allright? Phipps: Yes. Jorgensen: Because of the fact that the existing sewer is not exactly in the 15' on the south, on the southwest corner there. Phipps: Yeah. We were thinking about 20' across the front. 20' new easement. Jorgensen: Is that a problem with landscape? Conklin: This is underground? Jorgensen: Yes. Conklin: Is that a problem with landscaping? Jorgensen: We can put shrubbery and stuff like that in if you want. Edwards: We can use a tree every 30'. Conklin: Seems to work. You've got lots of trees out there. Jorgensen: Okay. • Phipps: We are going to need a light at the intersection, or I mean at the entrance. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 19 Franklin: Phipps: Franklin: Boles: Jorgensen: Boles: Faulk: Hooker Faulk: Hooker Faulk: Conklin: Perry Franklin, Traffic Superintendent. If spacing works out right, I'll go out there and check it after this meeting, but it looks like maybe about wanting to hang it on one of these poles there to be where their property is to the north that way the developer doesn't really pay for the new light. Okay. Yeah, we can do that. Hang it on the pole across Van Asche. Johney Boles, Arkansas Western Gas. The easements that have been requested will be fine. These office spaces, are they proposed single tenants? Yes Okay. That's all I have. Bob Faulk, Southwestern Bell. Do you know exactly, you said you may want to extend this out? Do you know will it be office space, warehouse space? Proposal is, if we ever need more office space we will extend back into our warehouse space and extend out warehouse back. Are you guys going to be located in this building? Yes. You get a hold of me at some time and we can discuss what your phone needs will be so I can get a cable sufficient in size for these two building. That's all I have. Any other utility comments before we start our Commercial Design Standards? With regards to Cox Communications they request the same easements and considerations as the electric company. We have aria) service along Van Asche and the relocation would be at the owner's expense. • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 20 LSD 00-9.00 HOOKER CONSTRUCTION, pp 209 Conklin: I'd like to start talking about our Commercial Design Standards and Design Overlay District Standards. What I'd like to do first just for the record is go through our ordinances and then I would like one of you three gentlemen to explain to me or justify your request for variances from those standards to articulate what you are actually requesting to do out on this site. I must say I know it's probably difficult for you going out there and seeing what this development looks like being on the edge of the city limit line with Beaver Concrete across the street, concrete trucks and open material pits, I understand it's difficult to try and apply something that's compatable. Key: Well we feel that we have, Tim, and obviously the letter of the design standard is something that we have got to look at. Conklin: So, let me go through our, first of all I'd like to go thru our Design Overlay District Standards with regards to Exterior Appearance," All structures shall be architecturally designed to have front and side facades facing all street and highway right of way. An elevation drawing shall be submitted for each side of the building that faces a street or highway." I think your buildings do appear to have a front. Building Materials, "Buildings shall be constructed of wood, masonry, or natural looking materials. No structures shall be allowed that have metal side walls UNLESS such metal siding is similar in appearance to wood, masonry or natural looking materials". Fencing, " All Fencing shall be constructed of wood, masonry, or natural looking materials. No optional fencing shall be located within the green space required by Section D.2. No metal fencing shall be allowed except in the following cases, a) Wrought iron fencing". That security fence that's using chain link or barbed wire in must be first fenced off with a view obscuring natural looking fencing material. Metal fencing shall be placed inside the view obscuring fencing and the view obscuring fencing shall be to the height of the metal fencing. I went out there and looked at the site and it has chain link surrounding all four sides with three strands of barbed wire, so that is something that we will need to address also. With regard to our Commercial Design Standards, I should have these memorized by hart after talking about Kohls for three weeks now, but let me find them really quick. Design Elements Guidelines for Commercial Structures. This is zoned C-2, we do have office use in front of each building with warehouse use in the back, outdoor storage behind the buildings and in the yard. Elements to avoid or minimize include: a)unpainted concrete precision block walls, b)square "boxlike" structures, c) metal siding which dominates the main facade, d)large blank, unarticulated wall surfaces, • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 21 e)large out of scale signs with flashy colors. So with regard to our Overlay District Standards and our Commercial Design Standards, before I make any further comments I'll let you do your presentation. Key: With regards to meeting the regulations? Conklin: With regards to the ordinances and how you are reading those ordinances. If I put you on the spot that's fine, I can keep on going but I want to hear your reasoning. Key: Well, as you've commented, we've got a little bit of a controversy here in that we are in an overlay district with an industrial site adjacent to us which is currently seperated from this property with a chain link fence. My name is James Key, Architect for the client, for the owner. As you had commented, we have a concrete plant directly across the street from us, several industrial structures along all fronts. We had proposed to approach these structures, considering the nature they are used, their location, with a natural concrete block, face veneer as opposed to unpainted concrete precision block and we are looking at a scored block and a little bit more of a design character to it than just a standard 8x16" block because it has a score pattern to look more like a 6x6 or 8x8 tile, in effect. We are proposing to incorporate a natural galvanized metal panel. Several factors in our decision to do that, we have together approached a project in the past and received approval through the Planning Commission for building in the Overlay District that had metal siding on it. The Liquor -to -Go liquor store, not too remote from this location on I-540 and Garland, 112 Avenue or Highway. Conklin: Could you describe with regard to Liquor -to -Go, what the materials were that were approved? Key: That was a buff colored split face concrete as opposed to a scored natural colored concrete block with an R panel above a block wainscot that, similar to this it had a ribbed pattern simulating a board and batten in effect, which was what our approach was in that and I think that the Planning Commission agreed that the ribbed tile panel did simulate traditional board and batten. Gave a maintenance free exterior, standard color, durability This particular case due to the nature of the environment we are in we were proposing to use a natural colored galvanized sheet panel with a ribbed pattern on it which I think the argument could be made that it does provide a simulated board pattern from a distance. Granted the color is more traditional metal color. Again, we have an industrial site to our east and existing metal building structure on this site that is intended to remain that has a tan and bronze panel pattern and concrete block directly across the street. That was out reasoning. I realize that we are not, in my opinion, I don't think we are • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 22 asking for an appeal or variance to the Overlay Design Standard we would just like consideration given the nature of this site, the adjacent surroundings, existing structures in that neighborhood to do something that we think is architecturally appealing. I think it's an improvement to what we see there. It's not all brick and I don't think it's reasonable considering the adjacent surroundings and materials being used on all the buildings around us which there are four or five, to go in there with a brick structure, something more commercial in nature. And that was our approach. We felt we drew in a nice architectural element by trying to incorporate some things together here. A nice exposed steel canopy suspended with rods off of the steel plate on the building. And I was, I've got some more photos I've got to pick up from the developer but I was going to enlarge the photographs of all these adjacent sites, put them on a board and present them to the Subdivision Committee which, and the Planning Commission. I realize we weren't going to talk about this here today but I didn't know what detail we were going to be getting into this. Conklin: I just, from Staff's standpoint, I just want to make sure I'm on the record as giving you some direction of what I think, which direction you should go in and the ordinances and if I feel like it's a variance or not. Key: What would you recommend at this point. Conklin: That's what I was going to try to go over. I want you to be upfront and know what I would think the minimum would be. You mentioned Liquor -to -Go, split faced block. I'm not opposed to using scored concrete on parts of it. I have trouble with the metal. Trying to convince myself that it looks like wood from far away. I mean, I'm trying to think if Roller Wilson's house is the same metal. Key: Actually it's corrugated, I think. Jorgensen: This is really more of a, I saw this in Seattle downtown, it's an architecturally significant look. Conklin: I don't think it meets the overlay, and I'm just giving you my opinion now so it's on record and when we go forth. I never found that as being similar to wood in appearance. I can not sit here and say that looks similar to wood in appearance. In my opinion it does not meet the overlay district requirements with regard to metal sidings. So I have a problem there. The concrete block, unpainted concrete precision block walls, I've seen the scored concrete used. I think they used it at Kentucky Fried Chicken on Rolling Hills, it's painted, I think that would help. There is no argument that if it's painted, it's not unpainted. Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 23 Key: An option to that would be an integral color block, would that be preferable over a raw block. Conklin: Yes. Key: Charcoal or buff or red or whatever. Conklin: I've seen different blocks, split face and the scored concrete. They can use this as banding or something along the side of the building, that's something that I'm looking for. The square box -like structure, I think when we get to the Planning Commission it's going to be, Subdivision Committee discussion on how, what have you done to break this building up so it doesn't look like they have ordered it out of a catalog and it's dust a square, box, metal building. I've seen in the past they have used entryways, a portico or something they have attached out front. Key: We've looked at a whole series with the small portico out beside of this building and in my opinion it looked like a small residential porch which I didn't think was appropriate for a commercial structure. I mean, we could put a commercial canopy on there as opposed to a suspended steel canopy, which we thought again would be a nice architectural element. It doesn't address the boxiness of the structure. Conklin: This canopy that you are showing. Hooker: Basically, Tim, what I'm thinking is it's going to have kind of like a steel percula type structure with galvenized metal roofing in an arch. You know it's all going to be in an arch and it's going to be, and you know, I, it's the whole mill district look that I like. I'm not doing it to be cheap, I'm doing it cause I like it. Conklin: I understand. I talked to Ron Sharp this weekend and I asked him to get his project in because it concerns me, well this concerns me more than the mill district, it's in the overlay district. I have a photograph of this. Now, I don't think this is an architectural wonder but that building has brick on it. It happens to be a concrete plant, but it has brick on it. Hooker But there is no articulation in the, I mean, you know, it's.. Conklin: I understand. I'm just saying I think there are other materials that you can use. I would recommend that other materials be used with regard to the amount of metal siding that you are proposing, I think a minimum, and I'm just giving you my opinion now, I'm not sure what the committees would require, but at a minimum • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 24 to bring it up to the top of the doors. The masonry. The metal siding, I'm sure there's other metal siding. I think you are going for a certain look. Key: We've considered a prefinished metal color? Hooker: But I hate that look. Conklin: There's vinyl siding there's steel siding that's horizontal that looks like wood. I do not... Key: We considered a cementious lat siding that can be painted. Very durable product, again considering the nature of the building and the location it didn't seem that was the appropriate material. Hooker: And it's going to look like it's down in Wilson Park. Key: What's going to happen, is the property, what's the use of Van Asche ultimately? Is the property to our east going to always remain industrial? It's got an asphalt company and an industrial lot right now on it. Hooker: Would it be better to get it rezoned? Key: Should we try to rezone it industrial and then it doesn't necessarily comply with Commercial Design Standards even although it's still in the overlay district? Conklin: I don't think you need to try to get it rezoned. As offices, you are going to have to comply with the Commercial Design Standards portion: That is on the city limit line. You have Johnson to the north and yes, on the east side of I-540 of Van Asche you have a metal building there. I'm not sure what business that... Key: East of 540? Conklin: East of 540. Key: That is a aeronautics machine shop there. And we have a Quonset hut adjacent to us over here. We've got an Arkansas State Highway shop building getting ready to be built directly to the south of us. Hooker: Right behind us is going to be all their open container stuff. Asphalt, rock, sand... Key: I think a big issue in addition to the Commercial Design Standards is the overlay • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 25 Conklin: Key: Hooker: Conklin: requirements that the fencing to not be chain link or to screen the chain link with a natural shrub fence. What do we do at the east here where we have a chain link fence on adjacent property or separating adjacent industrial property from us? Do we put a wood fence or trees to screen their chain link fence? Whose fence is that? I'm not sure. We show one to be removed there that currently separates the industrial property that is Thomason Asphalt from this property. When we put a fence back up there on the property line, the intent was just to relocate a chain link fence again to separate this industrial site. We weren't planning really to do anything to the back fence, just remove what's in front. Okay. Let me, that's why I wanted to sit here this morning and talk about this because I think we need to know what I'm thinking. I can't predict what the Subdivision Committee will do. 1 was thinking that minimum we would want the fence removed in the front and to the back of the building. Key: That's what our intent is. Hooker: That's our plan. Conklin: So I think that you have an existing chain link fence there already that's not conforming. You have an existing building there that's metal that's not conforming. It talks about screening with a board fence. We have an outdoor storage area that talks about screening with natural vegetation and Kim Hesse is not here today... Key: Screening from the street? Conklin: Screening from what's visible. Unfortunately I-540 will be up above the site. Key: Well, that's what I'm asking. What's visible? The whole side, all sides? Conklin: Pretty much you can see about anything from there. I'm thinking if we can landscape along these property lines to help mitigate what you can see from the bypass. Hooker. They are going to have to be 60' oak trees to hide anything. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 26 Conklin: I'm just giving you what I'm thinking. How do we get closer to our Overlay District Standards with outdoor storage. I'm thinking if you do some sort of landscaping. Is your yard back here going to be completely fenced off from this one? Hooker. Un hun Conklin: Okay, then use some type of landscaping in here. If you did some rows of trees I think that could accomplish it. Hooker One thing to keep in mind, Tim, you know the Arkansas Highway Department is going to fence off, even if we took down the back fence, they are going to put a chain link with razor wire on the top of it back there. Key: Well, they probably won't be allowed to. Cause they are also in the overlay district. Hooker: They are state. They do anything they want to. They can build a metal building. Conklin: They are going to build a metal building. I've talked to them. Just one of those things. Down on, by McBride. Key: Maybe we ought to just ask for a waiver of the entire ordinance considering our location and adjacent property owners. Conklin: I don't think that would be a good idea Mr. Key. Key: No, I don't either. You know, it's just, we are trying to comply and our adjacent neighbors are going to come in and totally degrade what we are going to do. We might spend the money to put up a very expensive wood screen fence and here they are going to have a chain link fence. Conklin: I'm suggesting ways to, these are ordinance requirements. How do we comply with the ordinance? I'm thinking we have outdoor storage, we've got to comply with this somehow. So, I can sit here and tell you in my opinion what it's going to take to comply. That's why I read the ordinance first and let Mr. Key talk. I wanted to see how you thought you were complying with it because you may have some other ideas that I'm not sharing with you. Hooker: What do you think, Tim. If we go in there and raise our rock another 2 feet and go to a split face or paint the, I mean, I like the block that's on Nelms better than I • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 27 do the split face. Every body and their brother has put split face blocking. I was trying to be different and we picked a different kind of panel. It's not corrugate, it's a square top panel, you know. I like the galvanized metal. I like that look. It kind of fits with our type business and it's different. So, we go to a prefinished green panel that looks like Thomason Asphalt beside us to, I mean, sometimes, you know, it feels like we're defeating the purpose trying to meet the design ordinance. Conklin: Well, you are zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial, and the use you are proposing is not allowed by right and if you wanted to go into industrial area I think you would be closer to meeting the standards of those areas Yes, this is an area, it's unfortunate it's right on the city limit line, but it's still C-2. I'm not sure what type of consideration you'll get from Subdivision Committee or Planning Commission on that, but I'm trying to come up with a commercial looking structure facing Van Asche. That is what the ordinances are telling me to do. Hooker: Right. • Conklin: And you are trying to do something that I would consider is industrial looking. I'm not being critical or anything. Key: Is the Nadine Ball Educational Center industrial looking say in the middle of downtown? Conklin: I personally don't like that building. Key: Is it considered industrial looking in your opinion? Conklin: Yes. They took a McBride warehouse and converted it and I don't think it relates to anything on Dickson Street or the Walton Arts Center. Hooker: And see, that's one of my favorite buildings. I mean, I like Rolland Wilson's house more than I like anyone on Washington Street. Conklin: I'm probably going to get myself in trouble more here, but if you're concrete block, I look at across from Rolland Wilson's house the Bradbarry's painted black... Key: I think it's intricately colored charcoal. • Conklin: Is it. These Commercial Design Standards are difficult. I think a brick, if you are • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 28 talking about this material being used, I think brick would have been more appropriate than the block. I'm just one person. I'm just giving you my opinion here. Hooker: Do you think if we went with a brick? What if we did something like Roller's house. Use brick instead of block? Conklin: I prefer brick. 1 mean, that's just one of my personal opinions. I think brick looks nicer. People use concrete block because it's cheaper. Hooker: Not necessarily. Key: You also get into the issue of having a monotone development. Everything is brick, everything is this, everything is that. We've got dry-vit here. I know when we went thru the planning commission before on the liquor store, one of the Planning Commissioners prefered to see the entire building in dry -vit. Well, we were totally opposed to that and I think some of the other Planning Commissioners were. And it's a matter of opinion what's acceptable? Is it brick over blocks? Is it colored siding over plain siding? Conklin: I understand and that's why I read these ordinance standards. What you need to show to this commission, the Subdivision Committee that you're not proposing to use unpainted concrete precision block walls, that the building is not square and box -like, that metal siding is not dominating the main facade of the building, that you don't have large blank unarticulated wall surfaces. Overlay District Standards, that the metal siding you are using is similar in appearance to wood or some other natural material. And so, that's where we are trying to get closer to. Key: What do you think the intent of the ordinance was when it says some other natural material? What, metal siding that Looks like stone, that looks like wood that looks like, what other natural materials are there? Conklin: I have metal siding on my house that looks like wood, they have wood grain pressed into it. Key: Cheesy. Hooker. I don't like the wood look, aluminum siding. • Conklin: And I'm not saying to use that, but similar in appearance to wood, I have to honestly be able to look at it, walk out this building and look at Rollers's now... • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 29 Hooker? Key: Conklin: Key: Conklin: Hooker: Conklin: So if we went out there and did a metal building and put vinyl siding on the whole thing with, you know, shutters, is that going to be ... More desirable? It's something that we would have to look at. I'm not suggesting that you do that either. You know, we can always have like the Dollar General store down on 15' Street. I don't think we want to replicate that one either. I mean, we are trying to, I mean, it would be easy to go in there and make it look ugly and meet all the standards. So you need to sell, that's what I'm saying, at Subdivision Committee, if you believe that by putting this metal on there that it's meeting the ordinance, you need to convince them of that. I'm not convinced. Hooker: And I don't think we can convince them. Key: It's an impossibility. Conklin: Okay. Then you either can wright a letter or I'll put it on report that we are requesting a variance because in my opinion it is a variance.. Hooker: Well, then that's fine. What's the chances of that, them accepting the variance or getting approved for a variance? Conklin: Well, when I started I said this is a very unique area. I can't, I don't know. My prediction is they are going to want to uphold the ordinance based on past experience. And if you can make a compromise, if you really want to go on this site, if you can make a compromise of some sort, even though it's not exactly what you prefer, you would stand a better chance. But the question is weather even with that compromise, going to be accepted. Key: We discussed that and we considered going to a brick venire or a colored block venire right from the start. Or a prefinished metal panel or some of the first designs that I looked at with Morgan and Don were for a lat siding, a simulated wood lat siding with a hardyplank painted to look like wood. And we are willing, obviously, to compromise. We want to do what's possible and what is necessary • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 30 to get this approved. We prefer to take this approach and see how we can work with the Subdivision Committee and Planning Commission. I question if we actually take the approach of a variance from the Overlay Design Standard, is that variance going in before the board of adjustments? Conklin: No. Key: It's actually a variance that the Planning Commission would be approving subject to these conditions. Conklin: I can sit here and probably point to a development in town that would meet the standard. If you drive down Millsap Road and Futural, look at those buildings, those met, and if you put down on the front of these warehouses... Key: The medical office building here, the problem being, if we put that on the front that still doesn't address it. We need to wrap the entire building because it is visible from all plains. • Conklin: Well, I haven't even gone to that part. I'm dust trying to get your front closer to where I'm comfortable with it. • Hooker: What building is that again now? Key: The Medical Arts... Hooker: All the stuff on Millsap? Conklin: All the stuff on Millsap have approval by Planning Commission Key: Brick and dry-vit and tile. Conklin: It's interesting, I go to Springdale and you look at Laney's Auto Body shop, what they've done. I mean, it doesn't look like an auto body shop to me, I mean, typically. Hooker: I mean, it's the use. They, have you ever been in that place? Key: I don't think we necessarily want to have a metal building that looks like a doctor's clinic. Or a contractor's office that looks like a doctor's place. Hooker: I mean, I'm trying to sell to people that are looking to cut every penney and they • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 31 walk into our office and we're in an office that looks like a doctor's office, I mean, that's potentially, I know it could potentially lose us business. People like to see tight low overhead for contractors. Key: They don't expect to see tile and marble and... Conklin: That's for the engineers and architects right. Key: That's for engineers and architects. You may even notice Dave's new office Jergensen: I've lost a lot of business. Key: Well, I think the approach we need to do is actually write you a letter requesting an exception from the design standard. A consideration for the unique nature of this site within the overlay district and considering the Commercial Design Standards. Hooker: If we start asking for variances then all of a sudden you throw up a flag. Conklin: Well, no matter if you write a letter or not, in our report I'm going to go thru, what I'm starting to do is put these elements in, put the overlay district in and make findings. Do you meet it or do you not meet it. It's clear cut. Hooker: Right. Conklin: That's what the ordinance states. That's what I have to enforce. So, I'm not making anything up. The applicant's, they know what the ordinance states and then it's up to you, and I already told you I disagree with what you're proposing, it's up to you to convince the Subdivision Committee and Planning Commission otherwise. Hooker: When you say the front of the building, are you talking about the front of the building that faces Van Asche or our enterance? Conklin: I'm talking about what faces Van Asche and then the Planning Commission has also looked at what you can see down the sides of the buildings from the street. And I-540 Overlay District Standards, we will have to do something with outdoor storage. And your equipment, utility equipment, we haven't talked about this, has to be screened or if you have stuff up on the roof of the building you need to figure out how you're going to try to screen that. Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 32 Key: More than likely we are going to have a residential type furnace with a condensing unit setting out in the green space. What about, in the issue of screening and yard storate, you know we talked about a visual buffer here, be it shrubery or planting somewhere here to screen, if they have a backhoe sitting here or a trailer or some construction material debris, it's going to be visible from I- 540. Conklin: That's why 1 suggested that, you know, do a tree, what they call a, Kim Hesse calls it tree lawn or whatever. Maybe a 15' area all the way down the property line with one tree per 20' or 30', large growing species, five ten years from now you'll have a canopy that will mitigate what you can see from I-540. Hooker. That someone will go to climb and jump over our fence. Well, what about this Tim, what if we don't, we're not proposing to use all the yard, which I mean, we will never be able to use all that yard. Even if we cleaned everyone of our job sites out and stored them there, if we just go down to the point where we are plannig on using with the trees? Conklin: Are you referring to that shadowed area that you have proposed for storage. I must say it looks a hundred times better today than it did... Key: I couldn't believe it. I went thru and took these photographs one day and I think you all told me you were going to be closing before too long and some things were going to happen. And I went back out there and everything was gone. I was suprised because I was expecting people to abandon it and leave all their debris Hooker. I can tell you this. Everything is contingent upon us being able to build something we can afford. Conklin: I understand. Hooker: Those people are moving back in if we don't close on this. Conklin: And it's difficult in this area. I've had the same problem at 112 and Truckers Drive. How to improve it and how to meet our ordinances. We just need to go forward. I've given you my recommendations as to what I thought you needed to do with regard to materials and siding and commercial design standards. Key: Subdivision is basically two weeks from tomorrow or yesterday or something? • Edwards. The revision deadline is the 3`d and then the meeting is May 11th. • • • Plat Review Minutes April 26, 2000 Page 33 Hooker: If we are going to change that board, should we take that? Conklin: Sure. Key: How are we going to change that board? Conklin: That's something you need to decide. Right now I can't recommend approval based on the materials. So either change it or stop. And the reason I'm telling you this today is I don't want you to go forward and be supprised at Subdivision. Key: Would your recommendation, I mean, at this point, would it be I can only recommend it if this, this, and this were done? Or is it going to be I do not recommend approval based on what's been submitted, period? Conklin: That's why I try to tell you, I think if we look at Liquor -to -Go, and what you propose about building, if you got closer to that and that's something Planning Commission has approved. I know that's not what you want to do but I'm telling you they want something that looks more commercial. The ordinance is saying we want something more commercial. Key: And what I'm asking you is, are we going to have that opportunity to have that discussion with them looking at these materials or should we take this, change that to a split faced or black block, change that to a tan metal panel, resubmit it to you and then forgoe all the argument of even having them consider this. And I realize what you are saying. This is a push to even think that they may consider it. Conklin: It's up to you. If you, I'm telling you what I'm going to recommend and if you want to try to accomidate me, you can or if you want to go forward and you think I'm looking at this wrong, you can persue that. Key: Dave, you want to trade and let me do the large scale and you do this. Jorgensen: No, we've got the easy part in this one. Meeting adjourned approx 11.00am.