HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-10-25 Minutes•
•
•
MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held on Monday, October 25, 1999 at 5:30
p.m. in Room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain, Fayetteville,
Arkansas.
ITEMS CONSIDERED
10/11/99 minutes
AD99-25: Master Str. Plan, pp168
VA99-14: Candlewood, pp294
VA99-13: Peoples, pp649
RZ99-31: Barnes, pp250
AD99-22: Cafe Nibbles
AD99-26: H.M.T., pp484
AD99-24: Millennium 2000
AD99-23: Millennium 2000
MEMBERS PRESENT
Don Bunch
Bob Estes
Lorel Hoffman
Sharon Hoover
Phyllis Johnson
Don Marr
Conrad Odom
Loren Shackelford
Lee Ward
STAFF PRESENT
Tim Conklin
Janet Johns
Lieutenant Frank Johnson
Ron Petrie
Dawn Warrick
ACTION TAKEN
Approved
Approved
Approved
Postponed -see 11/8/99 mtg
Approved
Approved
Approved
Denied
Denied
MEMBERS ABSENT
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 2
CONSENT AGENDA
Approval of Minutes - October 11, 1999
Johnson: The first item is the approval of the Minutes from the October 11, 1999 meeting.
Are there any changes or corrections? If not, then they'll stand approved as distributed last
week.
AD99-25: ADMINISTRATIVE
MASTER STREET PLAN AMENDMENT, PP168
This item was submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen and Associates. The request is to
remove a proposed minor arterial street from the Master Street Plan. The proposed street is
located north of Howard Nickle Road and west of Highway 112.
VA99-14: VACATION
CANDLEWOOD DEVELOPMENT, LLC, PP294
This item was submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen and Associates on behalf of David
Chapman of Candlewood Development, LLC for property located on Tots 40 to 44 in
Candlewood Development. The request is to vacate the 25 foot sewer easement.
Johnson. Is there any member of the Commission who would move to remove an item from
the Consent Agenda? Is there anyone in the audience who would request that we remove either
of these two items from the Consent Agenda? Seeing none, we will vote on the Consent Agenda.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the consent agenda was passed with a vote of 7-0-0. Commissioner Hoover and
Commissioner Odom were not present.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 3
NEW BUSINESS
VA99-13: VACATION
PEOPLES, PP679
This item was submitted by Mike Roetzel on behalf of Buddy Peoples for property located at
28th Court. The request is to vacate the undeveloped street right of way for 28th Court located
west of Club Oak Drive within Edge Hill Subdivision.
Buddy Peoples was present on behalf of the request.
Staff Recommendation
Staff recommended approval of the street right of way vacation subject to the following items.
1. All easements be retained as request by the City and utility companies.
2. Provide a revised legal description of the proposed portion of 48th Court to be abandoned
• that does not extend into the Club Oak Drive right of way.
•
3. A property line adjustment shall be processed in order to combine lots 20, 25, & 26 into
one large lot. This is necessary in order to avoid the creation of tandem lots. Only one
structure shall be permitted on this property which will be accessed from Club Oak Drive.
Commission Discussion
Johnson: The request is to vacate an undeveloped street right of way for 28th Court located
west of Club Oak Drive within Edge Hill Subdivision. This is on Country Club Mountain. The
reason for the request of the vacation is that apparently, this site is too steep really to build a
street in that area. The City has recommended that we recommend this vacation on to the City
Council. We have a letter in our packet from Don Bunn, the City Engineer back in 1993,
indicating that because of the sharp drop in the elevation from 20 then on to 40 percent drop in
elevation, he would not object to this right of way being vacated. Staff, do you have additional
information for us on the proposed vacation of this street right of way.
Conklin: Staff has no additional information. I do want to point out to the Commission that
we do have one adjoining property owner who is in opposition to the street vacation.
Johnson: All right, thank you. I'll ask whether Commissioners have initial questions of the
applicant concerning the vacation. Is the applicant or his representative here?
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 4
Peoples: I own 3 lots and 2 have the proposed street between them.
Johnson: The staff recommends approval of the right of way vacation conditioned on 3
items. First, that the easements requested by the City and utility companies be retained. Second,
that the applicant provide a new legal description of the portion of 48th Court that is going to be
abandoned and finally that a property line adjustment be processed so that 3 lots, all of which
you own, lots 20, 25, and 26 would become 1 lot.
Peoples: Yes, ma'am
Johnson: Initial questions of the applicant?
Peoples: The street was too steep. We agree with the conditions. We are willing to utilize
the 1 lot which is closest to the street. There would eventually be one home facing Country Club
Road.
Public Comment
• Frank Scott, residing at 380 Ravenswood was present in opposition to the street vacation request.
•
Scott: My name is Frank Scott and I own the adjoining property to the west of the
proposed street vacation. Originally, my mother owned this property and I purchased it from her
when I moved back to Fayetteville about 1978. Prior to that, Tommie Taylor had developed a
tract that shows 28th Street. It is now called 28th Court. Some verbal arrangements were made
with my mother that this would be done. He did not develop it and as 1 understand it, he sold
this to Mr. Peoples. In April of 1993, I was asked if I had any objections. This was clone in
writing and I understood it had to be notarized. I notarized the fact that I objected to the vacation
of the street. I feel this would seriously hinder the future development of my property which is
on the west. Were the slope measurements done by the City or by Mr. Jorgensen? In 1993, I
questioned Mr. Bunn who was then, the City Engineer of where those measurements were taken
from. About 10 days ago, Randy Allen and I walked the area. The 40 degree slope is not that
steep unless you get down into the drainage ditch. Drainage is another issue I need to address. If
those measurements were taken in the drainage ditch, I can understand it. To the north and going
west, it doesn't seem to be nearly that steep. I walked up it and I have a bad knee and a pace
maker. I've seen other streets in Fayetteville that have recently been developed which seen to be
steeper than that. I'm referring to some of the culdesacs on the east side of the country club. The
other issue is drainage. I've had discussions with the City's engineer and until recently I was not
able to get in the woods because of my health. But, now I take my grandchildren down there.
They love to play in the woods We've noticed that the erosion has increased since the Club
Oaks Development went in This is one of the reasons that Randy Allen and I walked down
there. I wasn't able to take him on to where the worst erosion was but we got a view of it. There
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 5
has always been drainage through there because of the land's topography. I refer to this as an
intermittent stream. When it rains heavy, it pours through there. All the drainage from the street
comes to a point where it's funneled onto Mr. People's property for a short distance and then it
goes onto my property and runs the full length. There are 2 issues. One is to retain access and
the other is the drainage problem which has been increased by the fact of the development of
Club Oaks.
Johnson: The second issue is really not something that we can deal with at this level.
Scott: I just wanted it in the record. I have a copy of the tract that was signed off on by
the City in 1970 which shows the street as a "street" and not "court."
Johnson: That's merely a naming issue and is not a significant difference.
Joe Rodman, 2835 South Club Oak Drive was present in support of abandoning the right of way
for the undeveloped street.
Rodman: I am one house removed from the area that has been requested for vacation. I
would like to ask that this be done. The property is wooded and runs behind my house. There is
another property owner who also supports this who was not able to be here tonight. We would
like for this street to be vacated.
Further Commission Discussion
Johnson: Ron, on page 4.7 in our materials, we are shown just a simple draft that purports
to give us the grade as it runs along this street right of way. Mr. Scott asked whether or not the
City knew if the figures were accurate. Do you know whether or not the City has done it's own
checking to see about the accuracy of these figures or are we relying on what the engineer
submitted in 1993?
Petrie: We are relying on the information provided in 1993. Tim has supplied me a copy
of the revised topographical information. I have quickly scaled the area and it looks like the
maximum slope is only 20 percent instead of the 40 percent shown on the 1993 graph.
Johnson: If the maximum slope on that right of way is 20 percent, is that a situation where
the City would ever allow a street to be constructed?
Petrie: The maximum slope under the minimum street standards is 15% for a distance of
300 feet. If it extends further than 300 feet, it has to be less than 10%. No. We would not allow
that slope.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 6
Johnson: Are there exceptions ever to be made to that?
Petrie: If there was an exception requested, it would have to be approved by the Planning
Commission.
Johnson: It is a concern to me that there is such a large discrepancy between the maximum
slope figures. I'm not sure to what extent we can rely on this information.
Ward: What other access does Mr. Scott have to this property to the west of the property
to be vacated?
Conklin: Mr. Scott should answer the question.
Scott: I have a private, one lane, gravel drive which I maintain that runs from where
Ravenswood ends and my property begins. There are 3 houses which are served by the private
drive.
Johnson: Does your property touch Ravenswood at any point?
Scott: I don't believe so. It could be just a foot or so. My neighbor has paved the
driveway that is off my property but he uses the private drive.
Johnson: You don't touch Ravenswood or Club Oak to your knowledge.
Scott: No.
Hoffman: What about Skelton?
Scott: We don't have property extending that far south.
Hoffman: I'm confused by this discussion and I would like to see a plat of the property to
make sure we are not cutting off his access by vacating this portion of a street even though there
is a steep grade. I'd like to know more about the alternate access points.
MOTION
Hoffman: I move that we table this item until we can be more fully informed.
Estes: I second the motion.
Johnson: We have the motion by Commissioner Hoffman and second by Commissioner
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 7
Estes: Let me see whether or not the mover will accept more detail. First, that we be
provided by the applicant a more detailed map showing Mr. Scott's property and whether or not
it touches any other street. Second, that we have additional information about the slope.
Hoffman: That is the intent of my motion.
Ward: I'm going to vote for approval of VA99-13 if he has any kind of access off of
Ravenswood. This is a good vacation. This area developed after this property was developed to
the west.
Bunch: In the clarification, if we could see the proximity of Ravenswood right of way
with Mr. Scott's property. It's unclear from the information we have.
Hoffman: That should be included in the plat.
Johnson: Specifically, we need to see what part of Ravenswood is built and what part is
merely a right of way. I need to inform the applicant that approval of this action requires 5 votes
and is a recommendation to the City Council who take the final action. This vote is to postpone
our recommendation of this matter until we receive additional information.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 8-0-0.
Conklin: We need to have the legal description and additional information from Mr. Scott
by Friday, October 29, 1999 to give us time to map that information.
•
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 8
RZ99-31: REZONING
BARNES, PP250
This item was submitted by Dave Jorgensen of Jorgensen and Associates on behalf of Bleaux
Barnes for property located south of Appleby Road and east of Appleby Apartments. The
property is zoned A-1, Agricultural and contains approximately 8 37 acres. The request is to
rezone the property to R-1, Low Density Residential.
Dave Jorgensen was present on behalf of the request.
Staff Recommendation
Staff recommends approval of the proposed R-1 zoning based on the findings included as part of
the staff report.
Commission Discussion
Johnson: This is property is on the south side of Appleby and is across from the
Washington Regional development. This across the street from the old farm house. The
adjacent land use is A-1 across Appleby and otherwise it's adjoined by R-1.5, R-1, and R-2
properties. Staff, do you have additional information for us on this proposed rezoning.
Conklin: Staff has no additional information on this rezoning.
Jorgensen: We're here to answer questions and it's a relatively simple R-1 request, we hope.
Johnson: Relatively simple would be appreciated. Are there initial questions to the staff or
Mr. Jorgensen?
Public Comment
None.
MOTION
Marr: I'll make a motion to recommend approval of RZ99-31.
Hoffman: Second.
Johnson: We have the motion by Commissioner Marr and the second by Commissioner
Hoffman to approve RZ99-31. I will remind everyone that rezonings require 5 positive votes and
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 9
are merely a recommendation to the City Council who takes the final action on the rezoning
request.
Roll CaII
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 8-0-0.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 10
AD99-22• REVOCATION HEARING FOR CU99-3
CAFE NIBBLES, PP213
This item was submitted by the Planning Division for property located at 3290 North Lee
Avenue (Suzie Stevens of Cafe Nibbles.) The property is zoned R-0, Residential Office, and
contains approximately 0.39 acres. The request is to rehear the original conditional use which
was approved by Planning Commission on February 8, 1999.
Suzie Stevens was present on behalf of Cafe Nibbles.
Staff Recommendation
Staff recommends revocation of the conditional use permit due to noncompliance with the
original conditions of approval. The applicant's representative has stated to staff he will not
comply with condition number 3 and would like the Planning Commission to consider granting a
waiver. Staff would recommend the permit be revoked on November 25, 1999 if the conditions
of approval are not met by this date. The conditions of approval shown in italics have not been
met by the applicant.
1. The dumpster shall have screening on three sides and will be placed on a concrete pad as
required by City Ordinance in coordination with the Solid Waste Division.
2. Landscaping shall be provided around parking areas as required by City Ordinance and in
coordination with the Landscape Administrator.
3. The parking lot shall meet all requirements of the City Ordinance for parking lots.
3. (Amended) The southern curb will be restored to the original location as indicated on
page 6.34 of the staff report. Concrete will be removed and landscaping will be added
The proposed foyer entry on the south side and west corner of the facility shall use
materials to match the front or west side of the existing building. Metal siding on the
south side of the building must be bricked. All other additions must be approved by the
Planning Commission.
Improvements shall be made to Lee Avenue including repaving and applying curb and
gutter to the east side of the street.
6. Maintenance shall be provided to the existing screening fence to the east and north of the
properties.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 11
7. The new office facility shall meet requirements of the City Inspections Division.
In addition to the original conditions of approval stated above, staff would recommend the
following conditions to be added if the applicant is granted additional time to meet the original
conditions or approval.
8. Water shall be turned off immediately and the business shall not operate if the conditions
are not met within the additional time granted by the Commission.
9. The conditional use shall be automatically revoked if any condition is not met within the
additional time granted by the Commission.
Commission Discussion
Johnson: I think the staff's position is not quite as harsh as this sounds. This came before
us in February of this year as a conditional use because restaurants are not normally located in a
R -O zone without granting a conditional use. At that time, there were 9 conditions that the
Commission required in order to grant the conditional use. That matter was approved. After
some months, some of those conditions were not met and some still have not been met. I believe
the staff has been working with the applicant since June and then in September wrote a letter
talking about those conditions that hadn't yet been completed. Has the screening matter been
taken care of now?
Conklin: The screening of the dumpster, to my knowledge, has not been taken care of.
Johnson: We have then, condition 1 that was required back in February which is the
screening of the dumpster has not been completed. It's my understanding the applicant has
agreed to do this and I had understood they would do this today. Then we have condition 3
which is the parking lot requirements under City Ordinance. Then there is the other item about
the screening fence to be repaired. That has now been done. We observed that when we went on
tour last Thursday. Staff, what additional information do you have for us?
Conklin: Staff has brought this back to the Planning Commission to look at what conditions
have not been met. Our recommendation is to allow 30 additional days for the applicant to meet
the conditions of approval. The applicant has worked with the City during the summer and fall.
They have obtained a shared parking agreement. They are now parking vehicles in front of
Liquor World. They have repaired their fence. They have provided the required landscaping
which was inspected by our Landscape Administrator and approved. Basically, we're looking at
2 conditions. When we were there on tour last Thursday, October 21, they did have the fence
contractor out there and I'm under the impression that it is just a matter of time before the
dumpster does get screened. The main issue that staff has this evening, is with regard to the
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 12
parking lot. Last June, staff went out there and they requested to widen the street to provide
parallel parking for customers to pull up and drop people off. They submitted plans to the City
and at that time, I indicated they did not meet our Parking Ordinance. Later that summer, I
discovered that the curb cut was widened. Please refer to page 6.33, which is the site plan
submitted in February and was approved as a part of the conditional use request. On page 6.34,
you have the site plan of what was actually built. Staff did work with the applicant and agreed to
allow them to widen the street and also allowed them to provide an ADA van accessible space.
Once the addition was constructed, it was discovered that it was impossible for someone parking
in the current ADA space to get to the front door. Staff worked with the applicant and allowed
them to have an additional space onto Lee Street. We do not agree to what's shown in the dark,
shaded area. Basically, that resulted in the curb cut being widened to 41 feet. The original site
plan indicates the parking stall striping at a 90 degree angle. This would allow vehicles to pull in
and out of the parking lot in a forward motion. Right now, they are angled. In order to get
vehicles out of the parking lot, they must back into the street. Our ordinance does not allow that.
Angled parking is acceptable only when you enter one way, back out of the stall, and exit in the
same direction that you pulled in. Those are the issues which are still unresolved. The applicant
indicated to staff that he was opposed to removing the concrete and make the parking lot curb cut
24 feet. He is willing to restripe the parking lot. Currently, there is a landscaped island which
prevents 90 degree angle parking and verbally he has agreed to removed that.
Johnson: I understand that since we were on site Thursday, the applicant has agreed to
change the angled parking and page 6.34 shows the 90 degree parking which is required.
Conklin: I conducted a site inspection earlier this fall and at that time, they agreed to
restripe those stalls to be 90 degree angles and remove the landscaped island. I'm not sure if
they have changed their mind.
Stevens: I and my husband, Jim Hatfield, own Cafe Nibbles.
Johnson: First, let me ask about the angled parking. In conjunction with the angled
parking, there is a small curbed planter. Are you willing to remove the landscaped, curbed
planter and provide 90 degree parking stalls?
Stevens: We did not want to change the angle of the parking until you had a chance on
Thursday. That is why we did not. If that is what you want us to do, then we will do it.
Johnson: If that is the Commission's wish, then you are not opposing that.
Stevens: Absolutely.
Johnson: What about the screening of the dumpster? Was that installed today?
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 13
Stevens: He was supposed to be there today. Mr. Bunch told me that he had driven by and
didn't see it I'm dealing with a fence man who did not show up. Hopefully, he'll show up
tomorrow. I have a signed a contract. I have done everything except go out there and help him
build it.
Johnson: So, that's not a problem and can surely be done within 30 days.
Stevens. We hope. I'd like to have it done within the week.
Johnson: That leaves us with the parking. Do you prefer to keep the angled parking? Is
that your position? You don't oppose doing the 90 degree parking stalls if we require you to do
it but you wish to discuss it. Correct?
Stevens: Yes.
Johnson: You do oppose reducing the entrance to 24 feet pursuant to our requirements.
Stevens: Yes. After we looked at it with our concrete specialist, we discovered that it was
so much easier for people to pull in and let people out and they would not have to pull back into
the street to get into the parking lot. We have elderly patrons and many of them are let out at the
front on the west side and they have thanked us many times for providing an area they can access
easily and the driver can let them out and just go into the parking lot. It's surprising how many
people have thanked us for thinking of things like that Unfortunately, it has been become a
conflict with the Planning office and that is why we are here.
Johnson: The applicant is willing to do the 90 degree striping for the parking stalls and
remove the small, landscaped planter, if the Commission believes that is the better approach.
The applicant prefers not to have to narrow the entrance to the standard 24 feet. It's now 41 feet.
They widened the entrance without contacting the City or advising the City even though there
had been contact on the street widening. Is that correct, Tim9
Conklin: That is correct. Anytime a business owner would like to widen a city street,
normally the City will work the owner to widen that street. Once again, we agreed to allow them
to do the additional ADA parking space to the north. 41 foot curb cuts are not allowed. Our
standard is for 24 feet from back of curb to back of curb and that is what you review when we
bring forward any large scale development.
Estes: Is on premise alcohol consumption permitted in an R -O zone?
• Conklin: To the best of my knowledge, our zoning ordinance does not restrict alcohol
consumption by zoning district.
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 14
Estes: Looking at the materials presented to us, to the rear of the east side of the building
there is a gravel area which is nominated as a gravel, employee, parking area. There appears to
be a privacy fence which was a condition of approval for the conditional use. Is there a setback
requirement from residential areas to residential office areas with conditional use approval for
restaurant?
Conklin: Are you referring to setback the parking area from an R-1 property to the east?
Estes: Yes.
Conklin: A 5 foot setback is required.
Estes: Is that requirement being met?
Conklin: That setback does not appear on either drawing and I have not inspected and
measured for the 5 feet of landscaping.
Estes: From the drawings we have, it appears there is 5 foot setback from the trash
receptacle but not the gravel parking lot. Would staff require the 5 foot setback for the gravel
parking lot to the R-1 property on the east?
Conklin: The requirement is a 5 foot, landscaped setback.
Estes: In some of the original material we saw, the building was described as a 3,000
square foot building and then we have a storage area to the east. In computing the square footage
of the building, was the storage are included? If so, how does this impact on the occupancy load
and the required number of parking spaces? I'm thinking ahead and I don't want to get into a
situation where we're back here at a later time and the issue is that there is not adequate parking.
Conklin: I am not sure how the square footage was calculated for this building. At the time
this came to the Commission for conditional use approval, we discussed shared parking with
Liquor World to the north We have received that agreement. Normally, we would look at the
gross area of the building to calculate parking.
Estes: Does the shared parking agreement satisfy the parking requirements for the square
footage of this building?
Conklin: That is my understanding.
• Ward: Tim, if the south curb of the 41 foot entry was put where it's suppose to be, what
would the curb cut measure?
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 15
Johnson: We're considering leaving the north entryway curb where it's at and requiring that
they move the south curb back to it's original location.
Conklin: That looks like 7 or 8 feet.
Ward: So we're talking about 33 to 35 feet for the entrance curb cut.
Marr: Ms. Stevens, at what point were you notified from the City that the parking lot
configuration you constructed didn't meet the Parking Ordinance? When were you told the
entrance was too wide?
Stevens: That's a tough one. At what point? I realized we had a true problem on
September 19 when I received a letter from the Planning office listing the 9 conditions and
saying we had not met them. Another problem was the certificate of occupancy. I didn't know
anything about the certificate of occupancy. I figured once the Fire Marshall, Building Inspector,
and Health Department signed off, that we could open for business. I know Mr. Conklin and Mr.
Hatfield, my husband, had discussions about the curb and concrete. 1 personally did not realize
we had a serious problem.
Estes: Tim, when were Ms. Stevens and Mr. Hatfield first notified there was a problem
with the curb cut?
Johnson: When did staff first learn that the curb was built 41 feet wide instead of 24 feet
wide.
Conklin: In late July or early August, we inspected the street and curb cut. In June, after
the Public Works Director and I met on site with Mr. Hatfield, we discussed what would be
approved. Probably one week later, he submitted a drawing showing what he planned to
construct on the property. By phone, I indicated to him the drawing was unacceptable. I thought
the applicant would bring back revised drawings. I never got revised drawings.
Hoffman: Does the 41 foot driveway and parking lot meet our landscape ordinance? There
is some landscaping in front of the building but there seems to be an absence of landscaping in
the parking area itself.
Conklin: Kim Hesse, the Landscape Administrator did go out there and did approve the
landscaping. Normally, with a 24 foot drive, you would have additional landscaping in front of
the parking stalls. She has approved the landscaping that has currently been installed. If
concrete is removed, I would hope that additional landscaping would be placed in that area
Typically, we would require trees.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 16
Hoffman: I'm in favor of a compromise approach and I like the idea of adding landscaping
in the area that concrete would be removed from. Would you be willing to add trees and bushes
in that location?
Stevens: How many do you want?
Johnson: Other questions?
Public Comment
Johnson: Please limit your comments to the issues which have not been resolved. That is
the width of the driveway which is now 41 feet and cutting it back to 24 feet and those who
might favor angled parking stalls. Those are the only 2 remaining issues which we have not
resolved.
Janet Gallman Ricker residing at 3255 North Lee Avenue was present.
Gallman: I have forwarded a letter which I believe you have all received. I wanted to come
forward and say thank you to Suzie. She has addressed a lot of the problems that were raised by
my letter. I like Lee Ward's approach. I believe that extending the south portion of the island in
the driveway and putting in an additional tree would soften the effect. Somewhere in between a
41 and 24 cut is a good idea. I appreciate the things she has done. Note that the new handicap
stall is by the fire hydrant. I don't know if that is a concern. 30 days is reasonable to accomplish
the remaining requirements and is a considerate thing to do. By no means, do I want you to shut
them down. Don't do that. That was not my intent.
Johnson: I think the staff as I said in the introduction, did not intend to go and shut them
down at 9 p.m. tonight I think the staff has always proposed to give additional time knowing
that there has already 8 months or so to comply with these conditions.
Conklin: We do support allowing additional time to get into compliance.
Mary Ann Greenwood, a friend of Suzie Stevens' and Jim Hatfield's was present.
Greenwood: I think the angled parking is great. It fits very well. I've been there a number of
times. It works very well. I think 90 degree parking stalls would be difficult. The other thing I
would ask you to consider on the driveway is the way the University of Arkansas has handled the
parking area in front of the Administration Building. They have not used concrete to decrease
the driveway width. Instead, they have used stripping and reflectors. These citizens have
committed a great deal of resources and time. These are people who meet a payroll and are
supportive of Fayetteville. I would like to ask the Commission to think about this. We don't
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 17
need another bankruptcy or another business going to Bentonville or Rogers or places north. We
need to work with our citizens.
Odom: I apologize for coming in late and I will not vote on this issue since I came in half
way through it.
MOTION
Ward: I move that we approve AD99-22 which is a rehearing of a conditional use
allowing the applicant 30 days to get into compliance by screening the dumpster on 3 sides, that
the parking will be with 90 degree angle stalls, the small island removed, and leaving the north
curb in its current location thereby reducing the curb cut width, and additional landscaping in the
area of the south curb of the driveway, and subject to all staff comments.
Bunch: I'll second.
Johnson: We have the motion by Commissioner Ward and second by Commissioner Bunch
to approve AD99-22 which is a proposed revocation. I favor the motion. The angle of the
parking stalls is a safety issue. Angled parking is only allowed in parking lots where you enter
from one end of the parking lot and exit at the other always going in the same general direction.
It doesn't work at this location because patrons must back all the way out of the parking lot into
the street. Backing into the street is unsafe. As far as the curb cut width, it seems to me that this
site is a somewhat unique site because this is a short street with a large development on the north
end and a fire department on the south end of the street and the street has the appearance that it
never will be a long heavily trafficked street so it seems to me the normal safety issues in the
width of the entrance are not nearly so persuasive at this particular site because it is unique
Hoffman: I offer a friendly amendment to the motion to include the addition of landscaping
in the south driveway area.
Ward: I accept that.
Bunch: Is that 30 working days?
Conklin: I used November 25th but I'll allow them the necessary time to get it done.
Marr. On condition 8, is it necessary to turn off the water? Can't we just bring them
back to the Commission?
Johnson: I think the issue is how much staff time and Commission time do you want to give
to a conditional use that has not complied with the conditions of approval in 8 to 10 months.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 18
People who get conditional uses have an extra duty to meet the requirements of the conditions. If
they chose to build in the correct zone, they wouldn't have additional conditions. I don't take
that as a friendly amendment. I take that as simply an amendment which requires a motion and
second.
AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION
Marr: I will pose the amendment then to strike condition of approval number 8.
Johnson: Is there a second? Seeing none, the amendment fails for lack of a second. Other
discussion? We have the motion to allow Ms. Stevens additional time to get into compliance
with the conditions of approval for the conditional use for Cafe Nibbles.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 7-0-1. Commissioner Odom
abstained.
•
•
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 19
AD99-26: ADMINISTRATIVE
H.M.T., PP484
This item was submitted by Greg House on behalf of H.M.T. Development Company, L.L.C. for
property located north of Dickson Street and west of Rollston Street. The property is zoned C-3,
Central Commercial, and contains approximately 1.13 acres. The request is to add a 5th story to
the building by adding 1,264 square feet and to modify the building elevation.
Robert Sharp and Greg House were present on behalf of the request.
Staff Recommendation
Staff recommended approval of the proposed fifth story penthouse and revisions to the building
elevations as shown on the submitted drawings.
Commission Discussion
Johnson: This project is known as the Three Sisters project. This was approved by the
Commission in February of 1998. It has been before us another time for some revisions and now
it is back again. We toured this project at agenda session on Thursday, October 21, 1999. We
tried to get a sense of how much higher this building will be if the penthouse is allowed. We
were told 17 to 19 feet higher than the highest steel structural part that we can now see. Tim, you
asked the architect to bring us some drawings to show us what this change would add in height
and to get an idea of the total size which is what is displayed here tonight.
Conklin: The additional area has been highlighted on the elevations here before you. The
drawings are also in the 11x17 booklet which was distributed with your agenda. We have also
provided an addendum tonight consisting of 3 pages which has a photograph of the existing
development depicting the exposed steel and the dimensions of the proposed penthouse. When
we were on tour, there were questions about where the addition would be from the existing steel.
Please refer to page 2 of this packet. The proposed structure will extend 17.5 feet from what is
existing now.
Sharp: I'm the architect for this project. The issue is the height of the existing steel
structure relative to our proposed addition. What we are proposing is approximately 19 feet.
That is the point of the highest ridge and it is 52 feet back from the street at that point.
Shackelford: I will be abstaining from voting on this vote.
Johnson: Thank you.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 20
Hoffman: In our original discussion of the elevations of the building, there were several
members of the public who brought up the view of Old Main from Dickson Street. As you are
driving down Dickson Street, will this penthouse be in that sight line.
Sharp: This is a fairly small addition. There might be a brief moment that Old Main
might be obstructed. Generally, it will set back a good distance from Dickson Street.
Public Comment
None.
Further Commission Discussion
House: I am the developer of the property. The pictures don't show the full scale of the
project. We're only proposing to add a 30x30 square foot area. This wouldn't be a detriment to
the project's height at this scale We think this is a nice addition that will add value to the
property and is in keeping with the original architectural theme. I appreciate your consideration.
MOTION
Ward: I feel like the Three Sisters project on Dickson Street is a real boost to the whole
street and this minor addition is not going to affect the view or anything else. This could have
been 20 stories tall. Staff is recommending approval. I move that we approve AD99-26.
Odom: I'll second.
Johnson: We have the motion by Commissioner Ward and the second by Commissioner
Odom to approve the 5th story penthouse on this project. Is there discussion of the motion?
Conklin: The record needs to reflect the following comment from the Inspection Division:
"An appeal from the technical provisions of the building code must be made to the
Construction Board of Adjustments and Appeals and a variance granted before the 5th
floor addition can be permitted."
They have been working with our Inspections Division and Inspections must have the approval
before this can be permitted.
Johnson: I do have a concern about the height of the building. I originally was concerned
about the scale of the building in that location and driving by and looking from the nearby
parking lot on Thursday, I do think that the problem for me is whether or not the building is
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 21
compatible and if there is compatible transition between the adjoining developments. That is my
concern. I believe the project is oversized for that particular location. There are plenty of places
in Fayetteville where it would not be oversized The building is obviously very attractive. I
think this is more building than the site warrants on Dickson Street. For that reason, I would
oppose the motion.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a vote of 7-1-1. Commissioner Johnson voted against
motion and Commissioner Shackelford abstained.
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 22
AD99-24• REVOCATION HEARING FOR CU96-27
MILLENNIUM 2000, PP528
This item was submitted by the Planning Division for property located at 2892 Huntsville Road
(Tony Catroppa of Millennium 2000.) The property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial,
and contains 1.45 acres. The request is to rehear the original conditional use which was
approved by Planning Commission on November 25, 1996.
Marshall Carlisle, Tony Catroppa, Charles Washington, and Chad Monroe were present on
behalf of the request.
Staff Recommendation
Staff does not recommend for revocation of the conditional use for the 800 square foot dance
floor. This property is zoned C-2 which allows restaurants with entertainment and bars as a use
by right. The conditional use revocation hearing should focus on allowing dancing at this facility
to continue and how allowing dancing at this facility may adversely impact the surrounding
neighborhood.
Revocation of the permit will not require the business to cease operation as a restaurant with
entertainment or a bar once all ordinance requirements are met. Complaints regarding noise are
handled by enforcement of the noise ordinance; however, compliance with the noise ordinance
was and still is a condition of approval.
Staff recommends the following conditions be placed on the dance hall in addition to the original
conditions of approval from 1996 which are included in the staff report after the new conditions:
1. The occupancy load shall be limited by the amount of off street parking that can be
developed on site or a maximum of 600, which ever is less. This requirement is
calculated as one parking space per 3 occupants.
Parking lot lighting shall be shielded and directed downward and away from residential
areas Light poles shall be 35 feet or less in height and fixtures shall be limited to low
pressure sodium
3. A 6 foot high wood fence shall be installed along the entire north property line separating
the dance hall and parking areas from the R-1 zoning to the north.
4. The business shall not open until the additional parking required is approved and
• constructed. The parking lot shall meet all ordinance requirements and no variance from
any ordinance requirement shall be requested to increase the amount of off street parking
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 23
on the site.
The conditional use may be brought back to the Planning Commission at any time for
revocation if valid complaints are received by the Planning Division.
The water service shall be shut off immediately and business shall not operate if the
conditions are not met.
7. The conditional use shall be automatically revoked if any condition is not met.
8. The conditional use shall be automatically revoked if any additional Unified
Development Ordinance violations occur. Currently, the applicant is in violation of the
parking lot, grading and storm water management ordinances. Staff has requested the
applicant resolve these violations immediately.
Following are the conditions of approval associated with CU96-27 and the applicant must get
and remain in compliance with them:
• 1. Inspection by the Fire Marshall and Building Inspector.
•
2. Compliance with the noise ordinance.
3. Provide 25 parking spaces (2 of which must be ADA accessible) and landscaping. The
applicant must obtain a parking lot permit and drainage permit if additional parking is
required by the Planning Commission.
4. Compliance with the conditional use criteria, section 160.195 with specific regard to
refuse location, lighting and glare, and signage.
5. If there are any complaints within one year, the conditional use will come back before the
Planning Commission.
Committee Discussion
Johnson: This is a hearing to determine revocation of a conditional use. This is a request to
rehear the conditional use. The present name is Millennium 2000. It is across the street from
Baker Equipment which is a tractor/equipment place on Highway 16 east. The staff recommends
that the conditional use not be revoked. The issue before us tonight is a very narrow issue and it
is the issue of the dance hall permit. That is the only thing that the Commission has a say about
at this particular location. The zoning is C-2. I understand that the applicant has an alcohol
permit or a liquor license of some sort. The applicant can serve alcoholic beverages. The
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 24
applicant can have music. The issue before us is whether or not they will be allowed to continue
to have dancing at this location. There are other problems facing this applicant. It is presently
closed for a totally unrelated issue and that is a parking issue. That is not before us this evening.
There are some health issues that Washington County is dealing with. Those are not before us
this evening. There were some Fire Marshall issues and those are not before us this evening. I
want us to talk about the thing that we have authority over which is the conditional use for
dancing at this location. Tim, go ahead, if you will and give us the additional background that
you think we need on this.
Conklin: This is a hearing to consider revoking the permit which allows dancing to occur at
this facility. There was a conditional use that was approved in 1996 and this facility has had
dancing over the years. Prior to it having dancing, it was a bar named Speedy's. It's been called
Shooters, The Eight Ball Bar and Grill, Hots, Blue Star Cafe, and today it is called Millennium
2000. The issue is with regard to whether or not dancing should be allowed to continue at this
facility and how allowing dancing to continue at this facility would adversely impact the
neighbors. I have passed out to the Commission this evening, a color coded list from our police
department on the complaints they have received and violations. They were allowed to open up
for 30 days under Millennium 2000. The Police Department received 17 noise complaints, 3
complaints regarding parking on Huntsville and other private property in the area and 3 noise
violations during those 30 days. The noise complaints are highlighted in yellow. The parking
issues are highlighted in blue and the violations are highlighted in pink Once again, there have
been 3 noise violations that have occurred at this facility. Those occurred on Friday, October 8th
and on October 16th and 17th.
Johnson: There are additional noise complaints listed on the first page that occurred in
September. Why are those excluded?
Conklin: I highlighted those in yellow because the condition of approval back in 1996 was
compliance with noise ordinance. To my knowledged, there were no violations of that ordinance
on those dates. What I'm trying to indicate on this sheet is to distinguish between an actual
violation of the noise ordinance and a complaint that the Police Department received.
Johnson: So, there have been various complaints. There have been 2 that have been
verified by the Police Department as violations of the noise ordinance.
Conklin: There have been 3 violations. On page 3, one occurred at 1:30 in the moming and
that was actually Sunday, the 17th but they show 2 on October 16th.
Johnson: Thanks for that clarification.
Conklin: Just before our office closed this evening, we received a petition with 8 signatures
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 25
in opposition of the dance hall at this location and that has been copied and passed down to the
Commissioners. Once again, this is zoned C-2. They are allowed to have a bar at this location.
Their temporary certificate of occupancy expired October 18th. Staff will not allow them to
open as a restaurant and bar until additional parking is provided. If the Planning Commission
denies the permit for the dance hall this evening and they decide to do business as a restaurant
and bar, they will not be allowed to resume business until the parking issue is addressed. They
are required to get a large scale development approved. They have hired an engineer who has
been in contact with the Planning Division and he anticipates submitting a large scale
development. There are 2 additional lots west of this facility. They are also zoned C-2 and this
is where they proposed to develop their parking lot. For informational purposes, the lots are
zoned C-2 and you could additionally have 2 bars west of this facility as a use by right. Once
again, we want to focus on whether or not dancing should be allowed to continue at this facility
and how the dancing at the facility impacts the adjoining neighborhood. The dance floor has not
been expanded. It was approximately 800 square feet in 1996 and according to the applicant's
site plan it is the same size and location in 1999. The difference is that the building has been
expanded. The previous businesses occupied half the building and now, Millennium occupies
the entire building. It's gone from 5,000 square feet to over 10,000 square feet. The issue on
parking will have to be addressed no matter if the dance hall continues or if they are only allowed
to operate as a restaurant and bar.
Johnson: I did receive a call from one of the alderman representing Ward 4 who advised he
had gotten a lot of complaints about this particular facility. The complaints included both noise
ordinance complaints and parking. I said that I would pass that information on to the
Commission, too. Who is representing the applicant and tell us what additional information that
you would have us consider this evening?
Carlisle: We have the cart before the horse here. I will would like to introduce Charles
Washington, who is the manager of this club. The owner is Mr. Catroppa who is present here
tonight. I doubt very seriously if we would be here if we hadn't received so much publicity
about the owner, Mr. Catroppa. I take that advisedly and so shall you. On September 18th,
Millennium 2000 opened under it's new ownership and operator. All of this trouble stems from
what happened on that occasion. Mr Washington did one heck of ajob because over 1,000
people showed up at his place on that night. I think it took everybody totally by surprise
including the neighbors and for what it's worth, I'm sort of a neighbor. I live about 'A mile as the
crow flies from this facility.
Johnson: As the noise flies?
Carlisle: As the noise flies. I guess they hired me to get this thing straightened out and get
the club to comply with the ordinances of the city and do so in such a way as it can at least make
the owner some money. That is the object. There is a terrible occupancy problem based on what
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 26
Tim has said about the available parking. We have plans we want to present to you. I'm not sure
whether we can address the dance hall situation without the parking situation. The dance floor in
this building is exactly the same dance floor that was there in 1996 when this conditional use was
granted for that operator. Also coupled with this problem was the noise situation and we have
addressed that very specifically. I'm at a loss on how to proceed.
Johnson: I think you have put your finger on a problem and we need to be the most efficient
in the use of your time, our time and your client's money. Tonight, we cannot deal with the
parking lot development issues. That has not been prepared or submitted and is not before us
tonight. We are not able to deal with the parking lot development issues. It's my understanding
the development of parking is an administrative matter that staff will deal with directly and that
really does not have to come to us or at least, it is not yet before us --
Carlisle: Let me tell you what I was told --
Johnson: My understanding is that developing the required parking will be a pretty
expensive proposition and it could be a factor in what your clients will ultimately decide to do. I
believe Tim told us that if the applicant goes forward they will have to build a lot of parking and
comply with the large scale requirements and that would come before us.
Conklin: They will have to submit a large scale development for their parking lot design
regardless whether or not the conditional use for a dance hall is continued or not. Without the
conditional use approval, they would be a restaurant with entertainment and they are required to
have one parking space for every 3 occupants. Staff advised the applicant once we did receive
complaints from the Police Department and Fire Marshall they had to meet the conditions
approved for the dance hall in 1996 and that they had to come back to the Planning Commission
for possible revocation. The Police are very concerned about the safety of people parking along
Huntsville Road. Currently, there are no sidewalks. There were concerns about that. There
were concerns about people parking on private property. Also, the City has received complaints
about the noise. The original conditions of approval included that the operator must comply with
the noise ordinance. Apparently, there are 3 citations that the condition is not being met. That
required them to come back to the Planning Commission for this rehearing. Staff thought it was
in the best interest of the applicant to bring this back to the Commission based on these
complaints and these concerns with expanding the business and basically doubling the occupancy
or doubling the size of the building for you to decide if dancing should continue at this facility.
Johnson: It could be, Mr. Carlisle, that it is better to proceed first with the issue of the
conditional use and the dance issue. I assume that if the dance floor is enlarged and you have 3
or 4 times the number of feet dancing is really going to change the nature of this issue very
much. It probably is more a matter of music and sound dampening. Perhaps there is logic to
dealing with this issue first because should the conditional use be revoked then that perhaps
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 27
answers all the other questions. I don't know whether the restaurant and bar might stand alone.
Carlisle: Let me tell you what I understand the situation to be regarding the LSD. I called
the Planning office last week and was told that staff did not want to proceed with the large scale
development process which is on file until this meeting was over because this Commission might
impose some other conditions which would affect their review and therefore, they wanted to get
this behind them first. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense to me but that is the situation.
We can talk about the noise and we can talk about what we have done to take care of the noise
problem. Chuck is prepared to present to you what that is if that addresses the dance permit then
we're prepared to do that and we're also prepared to tell you that we will comply with the
parking requirements of the City of Fayetteville in every respect in order to meet that
requirements. Mr. Washington has a meter which is exactly the same device used by the City
Police to determine whether or not there is a violation of the noise ordinance. He has a record of
every one hour reading every night that this club has been open. He has taken those reading
every hour of every night. Not one time has that reading violated the City Ordinance. There
may be a conflict between the device the Police used on 2 occasions. One of the citations is for
noise after 1:00. Mr. Washington was told the citation was issued for any sound and it was a
violation because it was after 1:00. The other 2 occasions, at least from the City Police
standpoint, their measurement of the sound was higher than indicated by Mr. Washington's
meter and was in violation of the ordinance. Mr. Washington, do you have that information?
Washington: Yes.
Johnson: First, let's determine what the best approach is in terms of the procedure for the
Commission. Tim, go ahead and clarify for us why staff takes the position that we're really all
better served if we deal with the noise ordinance issue first.
Conklin: Once again, staff was working with the applicant on addressing the parking
concerns prior to noise complaints being received. With any conditional use, once we receive
complaints we look back at what was approved and what the conditions of approval were in
1996. We thought it was best for the Commission to rehear this item. Conditions have changed
out there and there are neighbors complaining to the Police Department and there are safety
concems. There are numerous complaints with regard to noise and this should come back to the
Planning Commission. Staff has been working with the applicant and once there were valid
complaints we advised the applicant that they might want to wait on large scale development of
the parking lot until this matter was resolved. A complete, large scale development application
has not been submitted to the Planning Division. Their plans were insufficient. We do not have
a large scale development currently in process. Their engineer was informed of the plans not
being complete and they have been told what is required for those plans to be complete and
submitted to the City. Once again, we advised the applicant that he may want to wait until this
meeting and see if they would be allowed to have dancing.
•
0
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 28
Odom: The answer to the question is fairly simple I think the conditional use process
requires that when there are violations of the conditions of approval for the conditional use that it
come back for a hearing which stands separate and apart and on it's own merit from any large
scale development. Large scale development is not an issue. When there are reports of
violations of the conditions of approval, the staff is required to bring them back to the Planning
Commission for a hearing on that specific issue. That is what is here tonight. It would be great
to do it all at one time. The violation process is not here at the convenience of the applicant. The
violation of the conditional use is here because violations have occurred and we must make
finding with regard to those violations.
Johnson: Thank you I think that is exactly accurate. I'm going to go ahead and deal with
the issue before us which is the revocation of the conditional use. Staff believes this is an issue
but the recommendation of the staff was for continuation of the conditional use. It's
recommendation is in favor of the applicant's position. I want to make that clear. I want to limit
the public discussion. There are many here tonight and I suspect one or 2 of them would like to
discuss this matter. I want this discussion limited to the one matter before us which is the dance
hall permit. I don't want to talk about the other issues. Let me pole the Commission and see if
they want any discussion beyond the one issue which we have authority over which is dancing
and not drinking, not having a club, and not having a restaurant, but dancing is what causes the
problem here.
Public Comment
Gary Sorensen, residing at 425 S. Stonebridge Rd., was present in opposition to the matter.
Sorensen: I am the President of the Wyman -Stonebridge Neighborhood Association. We
started out as a neighborhood watch program. We have a petition which I would like to read:
"This petition is to revoke the conditional use permit for property located at 2892
Huntsville Road. A meeting of the Wyman -Stonebridge Neighborhood Association on
October 16, 1999 brings forth this petition to revoke the conditional use permit for Tony
C's, Millennium 2000 restaurant and club located at 2892 Huntsville Rd. The
Association finds this club to be a nuisance and intrusion on our neighborhood. We come
to this conclusion from the excessive noise from the music, most noticeably the bass that
reverberates inside homes even when windows are closed, and the increased traffic into
our neighborhoods and increase of trash along side our streets, and the presence of
undesirable in the neighborhood. Peaceful enjoyment of one's property is a treasured
right in American Civil Law and we feel that the vile intrusion of this business takes
away from our peaceful neighborhood where we once felt peaceful and secure. We ask
the Planning Commission not only to look at the facts of the matter in terms of the zoning
but to use their wide discretionary powers in regard to the rights of the residents of the
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 29
area "
I have here approximately 73 signatures representing 65 homes of the approximately 90 homes in
the neighborhood. I know Mr. Catroppa was not the original applicant for the dance hall. At that
time, I remember 3 years ago, there were at least 3 of us that did come before the Commission.
Myself, I did not get to speak because I work nights and I had to leave within the hour. I did not
have a chance to speak at that time This was opposed by the neighborhood but unfortunately,
we were not well organized. With the creation of our neighborhood watch, we have become
much more organized and we would like to present this as a reflection of the neighborhood. This
neighborhood stretches from Wyman Road and Crossover Road to the city limits and includes
Huntsville Road and Stonebridge to the top of the hill.
Johnson: Could you hazard an estimate of what percentage of the signers of the petition do
you think live close enough to hear the noise from this establishment?
Sorensen: At least 90 percent. I have spoken to the man that lives on the property with the
city limits sign at Wyman Road and he has heard it. The folks on top of the hill on Stonebridge
Road can hear it. I'm not an expert on sound but I've been told that the sound measuring
equipment measures the highs and is incapable of measuring the lows. I'd like to confirm this.
I'm not sure. It's not a real high noise, it Just thud, thud, thud, all night long.
Johnson: Would you like to pass that petition around so that we could take a look at that.
Sorensen: I'm sure this is not a legally binding of any kind but this is the best we could do.
As a representative of the neighborhood, in the past, the noise has not been a problem. This
began recently with the opening of Millennium. There has been an increase of traffic in our
neighborhood and narrowing the focus that the dance hall or floor is going to be the centerpiece
of this establishment and that's what's going to increase the traffic into and out of our
neighborhood. A restaurant and bar, I don't think anybody would say much of anything about it
if they closed at a decent hour or what we consider decent. This is a neighborhood of retirees.
We have young families with lots of kids in the neighborhood and working class people. A
restaurant wouldn't be minded so much. Dance halls bring in crowds They want as many
people as they can get in there as possible to make a profit. This building has been expanded and
requires parking for 1200 people and we believe that is a detriment to our neighborhood and
property values and the safety of those living there. I'm sure there are others who wish to speak.
Johnson: Thanks, Mr. Sorensen. I appreciate your gathering the petition and the names on
the petition. We will take it that all of those people support your position.
• John Mallicote residing at 2756 Holmes Drive was present in opposition to the dance hall.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 30
Mallicote: I am a resident in the Wyman -Stonebridge area. I would like to say that the
previous businesses that have been at that address have not really been a problem in the
neighborhood and since the dance hall has opened, the sound and other issues have become a
problem. I trust that you will use your best judgment and responsibility in this matter for the
citizens in this area.
Johnson: When would you estimate the noise problems really came to your attention?
Mallicote: Approximately mid September to early October is when I first noticed it.
Johnson: How long have you lived in the area?
Mallicote: We've lived in our home since 1996 and have seen most of the previous
businesses at that address.
Stephanie Mallicote, residing at 2756 E Holmes Drive was present.
Mallicote: The noise actually started opening night. It was so loud that I thought it was my
next door neighbor. The bass is what comes into our home. It is what keeps us awake. It is also
the added traffic parking on our streets because of the overflow of patrons at this establishment.
We don't like finding beer bottles in our yard. This used to be a really clean, tidy neighborhood.
I think that Mr. Sorensen addressed the idea of the place expanding and if the parking lot is
expanded it's not the right place for this type of establishment. It's also true and I agree that we
never heard any bass noise or had problems with extra patrons parking on our street until it
became a dance hall. When it was a bar or restaurant, we never had a problem.
Larry McCawley, residing at 2715 E. Wyman, was present.
McCawley: To give you a prime example of what the noise is, my house is halfway between
Stonebridge and 265 on Wyman Road.
Johnson: About how far from this site?
McCawley: Probably a half mile. I can lay in my bedroom at night and hear this thump,
thump, thump. Mr. Carlisle has lived there for years. I wish his house was up a little higher
instead of in the valley where he's at and he would hear it. I can imagine what it is like for the
people between my house and that club. It's got to be ridiculous. It's loud. It's annoying. The
kids can't sleep. I can't sleep.
Mrs. Isaacs, residing at 2665 E Travis, was present.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 31
Isaacs: Those reverberations are subsonic. We may not be able to hear them but we can
feel them. There are houses on Holmes whose windows rattle from the reverberations. I was
here in 1996 when this special use permit was first heard and one of the criteria for keeping that
was indeed that the noise would be kept down. If this place is denied dance hall privileges, there
wouldn't be any music and I'm using the word music in its broadest sense. There wouldn't be
any reverberations if people weren't dancing. As Mr. Sorensen said, if this were a bar or a
lounge or another sort of club and was not intrusive in our homes we wouldn't be here protesting.
John Carson, residing 2691 E Huntsville Rd., was present.
Carson: I'm actually the last house before you get to the club. As time went on, the noise
has gotten louder. When it first opened up, it didn't seem that bad
Johnson: When did it first open up?
Carson: It started in October. One of the things I would like to address is the parking lot.
At my house and I'm across the street from it and the way they have their parking lit up, if any of
you have driven down the street, those lights hit you in the face coming up and down the
highway. My property is lit up. You can come to my house and you can make animals on the
house and we've had a lot of complaints about that. I have a rent house and my renter doesn't
like it. I would like for you to address that when you take a look at the new parking lot. He can
change the lights and move them to the west, if you let him have this parking lot and shoot it
back at his business and light up his business. I have a business. I like my business lit up. I
wouldn't like to light up your homes. This is what those lights are doing right now This
evening, you could come to my house and it's lit up. I don't think any homeowner would want
their house lit up. I'd like for you to take that into account when you take a look at this parking
lot.
Theresa Garrett, residing at 13671 Goose Creek Road was present.
Garrett: I live about 2 blocks from this establishment. In the past month, I have had to
wear 2 sets of ear plugs at night to be able to attempt to sleep. I can still hear the noise with the
windows shut and the heater running.
Johnson: Is there anyone else in the audience who would address us on the revocation of
the conditional use. Once I close discussion to the audience, it won't be reopened.
Further Commission Discussion
Johnson: I have one question about the measurement of the noise. There has been a
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 32
reference to the bass being the larger problem. I think there is someone here from the Police
Department. Do we have someone who knows sort of how the noise meter, if that's what you
call it, works? I'm interested in whether or not it measures the effects of the bass. Could we
have help with that question?
Lt. Johnson: My name is Frank Johnson and I'm a lieutenant with the Fayetteville Police
Department. The sound level meter does not distinguish the type of sound. I suspect it's the
bass because it is low frequency sound that is most annoying to people.
Johnson: Would you believe that the bass is measured as fully by the machine as is the
treble portion?
Lt. Johnson: Not the sound level meter. We can talk about the human ear. The sound level
meter does not distinguish between base and treble. It just doesn't do that.
Johnson: So, it measures what the ear hears. One of the speakers talked about the thumping
that, I think, is what the gut feels and that is probably the bass. It may not measure what the
body feels, just what the ear hears.
Lt. Johnson: It's possible that someone can hear the bass and it would not be in violation of the
City Noise Ordinance. There are environmental factors and without going into detail about the
noise ordinance which I don't believe you want to do now, it's possible that a reading could be
taken that is not in violation and someone could still hear the bass. Depending on the time, it
might not be a violation. If it's after 1:00 and they can still hear the bass, then it would be a
violation of the city ordinance.
Johnson: Thanks, very much for that.
Ward: How big is the building out there now and what is the maximum occupancy load
under the fire code?
Conklin: Maximum occupancy will be limited on the amount of parking they can provide
on site. There have been calculations from 600 to over 800. Occupancy load, to my knowledge,
is based on the number of door openings you have in the facility and the Inspections Division
and Fire Division get together and make those calculations. At this point in time, my opinion is
if they construct the parking west of this facility, the most I think they probably could get is
approximately 600 people.
Ward: That's even if they bring them in by bus loads?
• Conklin: No. 600 is based on parking at one stall for every 3 people. Staff is not
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 33
recommending any type of off site shared parking agreement.
Carlisle: We calculated the total parking stalls for the area at 222 spaces and 3 people to the
car would make that 666. Mr. Washington would like to make a comment.
Washington My name is Charles Washington. I am the manager at Millennium 2000. I
understand that the free enterprise system does not include the intrusion of privacy of others and
I will say that we have gone to great trouble and detail to work on that. We have done several
things to correct the problems. I would like for our sound tech person to come up and address
the sound specs of our system and what we have done to correct that.
Johnson: Do you want to hear from the sound technician? Go ahead.
Monroe: My name is Chad Monroe. I'm president and operator of Image, Inc. which is a
sound and lighting company. I do installations of professional sound and lighting systems in
night clubs and churches. We operate as Midnight Sound Works as far as lighting is concerned.
Johnson: Do you know about the measurement of the noise?
Monroe: I did the installation of the sound system at Millennium 2000.
Johnson: What about the measurement with the sound meter?
Monroe: The sound meter we use measures decibel levels.
Johnson: Do you have an explanation for the discrepancy between the club's measurement
and the Police Department's measurement?
Monroe: I do not except that maybe the calibrations of the actual meters may have been
different. To the best of my knowledge, on the last weekend they were open both the Police and
the club made a reading at the same time to better calibrate the 2 devices so they made the same
readings at the same volume levels.
Marr. Have any adjustments been made to the sound system to reduce the reverberation?
Monroe: I made a report on October 18. There are no layman terms when it comes to
sound system settings and readings. It's very technical as far as different settings and
frequencies and decibels. Basically, we have turned everything down.
Hoffman: Have you tested your system since the temporary occupancy expired and was that
done at night and have you actually put any sound dampening principles into effect since the
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 34
permit expired and what was the result of that?
Monroe: On Saturday, October 16, during the afternoon after the club was ticketed on
Friday night, I adjusted the sound system and made sure that it was not set to levels that would
be in violation of the ordinance. They operated that Saturday night.
Hoff an: On Saturday, were there any complaints with the new settings?
Conklin: The 16th was a Saturday and they received 2 citations on the noise ordinance.
Carlisle: Mr. Monroe, is it possible to adjust the sound system to satisfy the complaints that
you have heard here tonight?
Monroe: To the best of my knowledge, my adjustments when I left the club that day would
comply with all the city regulations.
Carlisle: What about the complaints about the bass sound that you've heard here tonight?
Can you adjust that in such a way that it won't bother these people?
Monroe: As far as I know, it's adjusted that way now. It was the last day they were open
so they may not have realized it had been changed.
Johnson: Tell us again what day was it that the adjustments were made so that you think the
system was in compliance with all elements of the noise ordinance.
Monroe: It was Saturday.
Washington: It was Saturday the 16th.
Marr: Was that in the middle of the day? It was adjusted in the middle of the day on the
16th?
Washington: Yes, it was in the afternoon.
Marr. Am I reading this report correctly that there were 2 complaints on the 16th and 2
violations the night of the 16th and 17th.
Conklin: There were citations issued late on the night of 16th and early Sunday morning on
the 17th at 1:30 a.m. or so.
Washington: Those were after the adjustments.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 35
Conklin: Yes, after the adjustments according to this report from the Police Department
which we distnbuted this evening.
Washington: We have cut the reverb levels. We have unhooked 2 of the 4 subwolfers.
Johnson: So, you believe that the 2 confirmed and cited noise ordinance violation reported
by the Police Department are in error.
Washington: Definitely. We tested the system at maximum. There would no way you could be
in our building at maximum peak. We took readings around the neighborhood and we came
back and adjusted the system down after we unhooked 2 of our subs. We went from pushing
3600 watts down to around 900 watts.
Bunch: Have there been any other measures taken besides limiting the sound? Have there
been any physical changes to the structure such as baffling or anything of that nature? Screening
doorways?
Washington: I have pictures of the areas that could leak sound which we have chalked and
boarded up such as doors. We really changed our sound system. We unhooked 2 of the
subwolfers and dropping to 900 watts were major and significant changes for us. At 1:00 a.m.,
we cut the power to the system even lower than 900 watts. We have taped off the system
controls where you can't adjust it above the 900 watt level at all.
Bunch: Is the operator of the system the same as the people who installed it or do you
have your own sound tech in the club?
Washington: They are, in fact, the same.
Bunch: Mr. Monroe is the one who did the testing Saturday afternoon and was operating
the system Saturday night and early Sunday morning?
Washington: Yes, sir.
Johnson: There are places where there are dance halls that have had noise ordinance
complaints. Are there places where you can have a dance hall without having a conditional use
in Fayetteville or do we have some that we have never seen because they were here before the
beginning of time?
Conklin: Most of them are grandfathered in. Dance halls in Fayetteville now require
conditional use.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 36
Johnson. So, those that have had complaints on noise that we haven't seen are because they
were very probably grandfathered in.
Conklin: That's correct.
Marr. What time does dancing start at the club?
Washington: I would speculate around 10 p.m. We open at 8 p.m.
Marr: Are the noise complaints prior to 10 p.m.?
Sorensen: It goes from 10 until after midnight.
Hoffman: I'm getting the feeling, to summarize, that the noise complaints and the dancing
are directly related and I think that as the Planning Commission, it is our duty to hear the voices
of the adjoining neighbors. I am very much reluctant to revoke anybody's dancing permit or
business permit but I feel that the applicant hasn't taken enough measures to thoroughly insulate
that building and shield the doors. I know there are several different methods which Mr. Bunch
alluded to that could be employed. I know that if we revoke a conditional use that the applicant
can't be heard for another 6 months or a year.
Conklin: It is one year.
Hoffman: I'm preparing to try to craft a motion that would not impose that time limit and
permit the applicant to come back after making additional modifications to the building and
testing with the Police Department and working with the neighbors to see if we can mitigate this
noise problem.
MOTION
Hoffman: I move that we temporarily revoke this conditional use for a dance hall with the
provision that if the applicant substantiates an appeal of the revocation that they be permitted to
come back in less time than is stated in the Unified Development Ordinance.
Estes: The original conditional use approval was subject to certain conditions. One of
those was compliance with the noise ordinance. What we have before us this evening is that the
occupancy load has increased substantially. We have 3 noise violations on record and I
understand there has not been a full and complete adjudication of those violations but those are
before us on the record. We have over 20 responses by the Fayetteville Police Department to this
facility in a period from September 14 until October 19. We certainly have more than adequate
information before us that dancing at this facility adversely effects this neighborhood. We have
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 37
signatures on petitions that exceed 70 in number. We have several people attending and several
who have spoke. I will second the motion to revoke the conditional use. I am not so sure that we
can modify a city ordinance by allowing this applicant to come back in any time less than
permitted by the ordinance. Tim, what is the period of time in which this applicant may come
back with a conditional use application?
Conklin: Once again, when a conditional use is heard and a decision is made, there is a one
year time period where we do not allow them to petition to rehear.
Johnson: Is that by ordinance?
Conklin: That is by ordinance at §163.02 D.:
"Disapproval/Reconsideration. No application for a conditional use will be considered by
the Planning Commission within 12 months from the date of final disapproval of a
proposed conditional use unless there is evidence of changed conditions or new
circumstances which justify reconsideration submitted to the Planning Commission."
Hoffman: Regarding conditional uses, the Planning Commission has broad powers with
which to set these conditions. We have seemingly almost unlimited abilities to impose varying
number of conditions. I'm merely making this a condition of the revocation. I'm not trying to
change the ordinance. My intent would be to try and achieve some kind of compromise with the
neighbors and let this club have another chance before a year expires.
Johnson: Before I rule on whether the motion is a motion. Please restate your motion
precisely so that I understand.
Hoffman: My motion is to temporarily revoke the conditional use pending further successful
documentation of compliance with the noise ordinance.
Estes: Do you put a time on that?
Hoffman: I'm not sure. Are you saying you would favor an absolute revocation with the one
year stipulation on rehearing?
Johnson: I think your motion is unusual but that doesn't mean it's not a wonderful motion.
State your motion one more time and see whether it garners a second.
Hoffman: This is a motion to temporarily revoke the conditional use for a dance hall
pending further documentation from the applicant to be submitted within a certain period of time
that they are in compliance with the noise ordinance. Would other Commissioners weigh in on
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 38
the time frame?
Johnson: We'll have a blank time frame I want to see whether this approach is going to
gain a second. Is there a second to the motion? Then, the motion fails for lack of a second.
Estes: I move revocation of conditional use 96-27.
Johnson: Is there a second on the motion.
Odom: I'll second.
Johnson: I have the motion by Commissioner Estes and the second by Commissioner Odom
that we revoke the conditional use. Mr. Washington, I will let you say one last thing.
Washington: Can you explain to me what you just did?
Johnson: The motion that we now have is to revoke the conditional use. If that motion
passes with 5 positive votes, then this conditional use for a dance hall can't be brought back
before the Commission until 1 year has passed.
Washington: This is a basically like a death sentence. There's no way we can survive.
Johnson: It's a death sentence to the dancing and the reasons are those that have been
detailed over the last several minutes. It's not like it's without any notice or basis.
Washington: I will say that we strived to comply with the areas addressed and put before us.
All we're asking is for an opportunity to do business and provide commerce. We don't want to
shut our doors and we will comply with any and all regulations within a reasonable time frame.
We don't want to shut our doors anymore than anybody else. We provide services to many
people. I wish I had the people here tonight that enjoy the entertainment that we provide in a
good, clean environment. We want to conform with what the city is looking for and open back
up. I wish we could reach a compromise without having to close our business.
Johnson: I'm closing the discussion because I think we've fully discussed the issues before
us. The one other approach I have thought of is to allow continuation of the conditional use in
addition to the original conditions being that if there is one more substantiated sound ordinance
violation that the termination be automatic. I think that there is sufficient information to shut this
down now. I'm not sure whether we have ever revoked a conditional use in my memory. This is
certainly a serious matter. We have before us then the motion to revoke this conditional use. Is
there further discussion of the motion to revoke?
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 39
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion failed with a vote of 4-5-0. Commissioners Bunch, Hoffman, Hoover,
Johnson, and Ward voted against the motion.
Further Commission Discussion
Bunch: I would support a temporary period to give the applicant a chance to work with
the neighbors and find a common ground and include stipulations that would give us some
oversight in this. I don't know how to present that as a motion.
Johnson: That kind of hands on business, I would not be interested in the Commission
doing.
Odom: I think that once the decision with regard to the revocation is made, I don't think
there is any additional remedy. Further, adding more checks and balances on a system which the
conditional use process was designed originally, does nothing more than circumvent the entire
process. I think we're starting to see more and more revocations of conditional use. All of the
negotiating and compromising is done on the front end on all of these. I'm, quite frankly, tired
of seeing them. I'm going to start voting for more revocations.
MOTION
Hoffman: I'll make a motion to impose a condition for AD99-24 that immediate revocation
result from the next substantiated noise complaint with citation under the noise ordinance by the
Fayetteville Police Department.
Marr: Second.
Johnson: We have the motion that the conditional use be continued subject to the original
conditions of approval which are found on page 8.3 of our packet and Commissioner did you
intend to include the staff conditions?
Hoffman: Yes, and subject to all staff conditions and adding the substantiated noise
complaint by citation under the noise ordinance by the Fayetteville Police Department.
Johnson: That would make 8 staff conditions of approval One of which addresses the
parking lot lighting. Those are on page 8.1. There are 5 original ones on page 8.3. Then, there
is one more condition and that is that there would be immediate revocation by the staff without
further Planning Commission action if there is one more substantiated violation of the noise
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 40
ordinance by the Fayetteville Police Department.
Estes: My concern with the motion is that at present, we have 3 noise violations before
us. In our packet this evening, we were provided 1 copy of a citation. What is a violation? In
other words, if this is going to be a condition of approval of this conditional use, we need to be
absolute and have a high degree specificity. Are we talking about this applicant being cited by
the Fayetteville Police Department for a violation? Or are we talking about a finding of guilt by
the Fayetteville Municipal Court and if so, how do we afford this applicant his right to appeal de
novo to the Circuit Court from that conviction?
Johnson: Now, there's a lawyer speaking.
Hoffman: I would assume that we don't need to address that because all of the ordinance
would follow all that through due process.
Johnson: The Commissioner's point is, of course, well taken and the point is does the
revocation result from the Police Department writting a citation or does it mean conviction of the
citation. Not every violation leads to conviction. Is it violation or citation or conviction?
Hoffman: If he's not convicted in Municipal for violating the noise ordinance, then he
doesn't have a problem. I assume that a substantiated police report would then follow through.
Estes: This is a place I don't want to go. This applicant needs to know where he stands
with this Commission. Are you telling him that if he receives a citation from the Fayetteville
Police Department then his conditional use is revoked or are you telling him that if he receives a
citation from the Fayetteville Police Department and then appears before the Fayetteville
Municipal Court and is found guilty then his conditional use is revoked or are you telling him
that he must appear before Washington County Circuit Court jury and be found guilty on appeal
de novo? He needs to know what conditions you're imposing upon him.
Hoffman: I intended that if he violated the noise ordinance and the procedures under that
ordinance would dictate those rules and procedures.
Estes: Are you saying this applicant receives a citation from the Fayetteville Police
Department that his conditional use is revoked? I'm not being argumentative. This applicant is
entitled to know what this motion means.
Hoffman: Could I ask staff to go ahead and fill us in on what happens when you have a
noise ordinance violation?
Conklin: I would refer you to Lt. Johnson to answer that question. The Planning Division
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 41
does not enforce the noise ordinance or follow through on violations and citations.
Johnson: Would you give the specific question again for Lt. Johnson?
Conklin: Once a citation is issued, what is the process that they go through where we
actually know there was a violation and when are they found guilty of violating that ordinance.
Lt. Johnson: It has to go to court if the individual who received the citation decides to take it to
court. That's it. It's like a speeding ticket. They are entitled to due process to present their case
in Judge Moore's court.
Johnson: Using a speeding ticket as an example, some times cautionary tickets are given. Is
a citation issued every time that the police department finds that the noise ordinance has been
violated?
Lt. Johnson: Yes, ma'am. That is the department policy. Yes, ma'am.
Johnson: Does the police department enforce the noise ordinance on it's own or does it only
• check out the noise violations if it gets specific citizens complaints?
Lt. Johnson: We can do either one. It is the officer's discretion if during his patrol he believes
there is a noise violation from a vehicle or business, he can take a reading if he is certified and
trained to do so. We also take readings from complaints.
•
Conklin: I was interested in what the time frame is from when the citation is issued until it
comes before Judge Moore.
Lt. Johnson. That vanes, Tim. I'm not sure what their docket is now. I would think it to be 4
to 6 weeks. There is so much involved here. The Prosecutor may decide that we don't have a
case and he may dismiss the violation before it goes to trial. That's a possibility. There are all
sorts of circumstances before it actually gets to trial.
Johnson: Mr. Monroe, you have handled the sound system and you have done all the work
to correct the noise ordinance violation problems. When were you first contacted to solve those
problems?
Monroe: The 16th was the day that they asked me to completely redesign the system. On
several occasions, I had been asked to turn the sound system down moderate amounts but not
anything as substantial as reworking the whole sound system. On October 16, I was asked to
come in and reset the sound system and take the decibel meter that I have out to the property
lines and out laying areas of the neighborhoods to make sure that we were in compliance with the
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 42
city ordinances.
Johnson: Tim, do you know when the applicant was first contact by the Planning staff to
tell them that there was a real problem with their level of sound?
Conklin: I did not contact them directly. I assumed that the Police Department was in
contact with them and took the readings because they were in contact with the owner of the club
most of the times they went out there to take the readings. That is my understanding.
Johnson: The motion is that we allow the continuation of the conditional use subject to the
conditions originally approved, the conditions that the staff has presented tonight, and an
additional condition which is that there would be immediate revocation following the next
substantiated violation of the noise ordinance. Additional discussion of that motion?
Hoffman: We do have a citation already in process. It has been issued. If this motion fails, I
will immediately make another motion to revoke the conditional use permit upon adjudication of
this citation which has been issued.
• Carlisle: Ex pose facto.
•
Bunch: Since we include many of the other requirements, on page 8.3, item number 5 is
in conflict.
Conklin: Strike conditions 3 and 5 on page 8.3. I think that will remove the conflicts.
Johnson: I'm not persuaded to vote in favor of the new motion.
Marr: I need to make a comment. I seconded the motion but after listening to what has
been said, I think it is ambiguous for us to do that and I will not be supporting the motion.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion failed with a vote of 3-6-0. Commissioners Bunch, Estes, Johnson,
Marr, Odom and Shackelford voted against the motion.
Further Committee Discussion
Odom: We could be here all night. I think at some point in time, the hearing has been
heard. The revocation has been denied.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 43
MOTION
Estes: In effort to reach some dispositive resolution, I move for a reconsideration of the
main question and revoke conditional use 96-27. I voted for that motion.
Johnson: Yes, but you were in the minority. I don't believe that you can do that but I can
because 1 voted in the majority. I will make the motion.
Estes: I will second.
Johnson: This is motion to reconsider the original motion. The original motion was by
Commissioner Estes and that was to revoke this conditional use. My understanding of the
Robert's Rules of Order is that reconsideration can be done at any time but the person who
moves reconsideration must have voted in the majority. I voted in the majority of 5 which
defeated the motion and so then, I would move and this would have to have 2 votes to reconsider
the first vote. Is there a second?
Hoover: I'll second. I also voted in the majority of 5.
Johnson: The motion is by the Chair and seconded by Commissioner Hoover.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion to reconsider passed with a unanimous vote of 9-0-0.
MOTION
Johnson: I will move to revoke the conditional use. Is there a second?
Odom. I will second.
Johnson: There is a motion by the chair and seconded by Commissioner Odom to revoke
the conditional use. Is there discussion?
Hoffman: I just can't believe that we can't come up with some kind of compromise for these
people. I know that conditional uses are sacrosanct but that this does appear to be a new venture
and the other conditional uses were working okay according to the neighbors. This place sounds
like it's been around about a month and I think that we are not giving them a fair shake by just
revoking the conditional use flat out. I won't vote in favor of this motion.
Johnson: I think there has been plenty of sentiment in favor of your position but I don't
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 44
think we have been able to come up with a workable solution to compromise.
Hoffman: It's my understanding the only appeal for a conditional use revocation goes
immediately to district court, is that court? It does not go to City Council.
Johnson: That is correct. We have final say.
Bunch: I will follow Hoffman's lead since there has only been one month and this is a
change in theme for his club. I would like to find some way to work this out.
Hoffman: I think there should be some way for them to do that in a very short period of
time.
Marr. I guess my feeling is and I really believe that as an individual that you should be
able to dance period. 1 do think that should not infringe on someone's right to live and enjoy
their home. I also think this club has been open according to the information since mid
September and the complaints started the first of October and it seems that the sound person
wasn't really seriously called in until after the third violation. Things have been done and there
were still violations after adjustment I believe also the noise started with the dancing. I hate
that there isn't a workable solution but based on the discussion and all the conditions in place to
protect neighborhoods. I think that if there was any other club which was approved under a
conditional use permit that violated this and was back before us and we had 70 plus signatures on
a petition it would be a very clear vote and I will vote in favor.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a vote of 7-2-0. Commissioner Hoffman and
Commissioner Ward voted against the motion.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 45
AD99-23: ADMINISTRATIVE
MILLENNIUM 2000, SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT
This item was submitted by Tony Catroppa for property located at 2892 Huntsville Road. The
property is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial, and contains 1.45 acres. The request is for
approval of a shared parking agreement for 50 spaces located at 2229 Huntsville Road.
Tony Catroppa, Marshall Carlisle, and Charles Washington were present on behalf of the request.
Staff Recommendation
Staff recommends denial of the request. The Planning Division has received complaints of
individuals crossing and walking along Huntsville Road to get to the dance hall. There are no
sidewalks in place. Also, staff is concerned about the distance of the shared parking lot from the
dance hall being over one-half mile.
Commission Discussion
Johnson: The staff has recommended denial of the shared parking agreement. Exactly
where is the parking located that is proposed to be shared?
Conklin: The parking is located west of Crossover Road on the south side at the Total Gas
Station. It's at the Jerry St. and Huntsville Road intersection. The applicant stated in his letter
that he believed he could park up to 50 vehicles in this lot. Staff believes approximately 25
vehicles could be parked in this lot. It's approximately .52 miles from Millennium 2000. Staff is
recommending denial. Some of the issues which have occurred with people parking at other
locations include people going to or leaving the club and walking down Huntsville Road. The
Police Department has complaints of people walking in the road because there is not currently a
sidewalk. Staff does not recommend approval.
Johnson: You have mentioned this part of Huntsville Road has no sidewalks and they are
walking on the state highway for over one-half mile.
Conklin: The applicant has plans and has bused patrons to and from these shared lots;
however, there have been reports of people leaving the club and not waiting for the shuttle and
they walk along the highway.
Washington: My name is Charles Washington and I am the manager at Millennium 2000. This
will be a short conversation considering we will not be around for awhile. There is opportunity
for safe parking and we utilize a shuttle bus to transport people between the different parking
lots. There is one shuttle driver and that is his only duty.
•
•
•
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 46
Johnson: Do you have any way to ensure that none of the patrons would walk back to the
shared parking facility.
Washington: A lot of our problems stem from our opening night. 99% of our problems stem
from one night. We weren't prepared for what happened. Basically, when you expect 200 to
400 people and 1,000 people show up, you're faced with problems.
Public Comment
Gary Sorensen, residing at 425 Stonebridge Road was present.
Sorensen: I am the president of the Wyman -Stonebridge Neighborhood Association. We are
opposed to this because there are no sidewalks. It presents a very unsafe environment for the
pedestrian. We also are opposed to it because people go clubbing and they are drinking and they
will end up in our neighborhood. How would you like to have somebody knocking on your door
at 2 o'clock in the morning as has happened or go out to get your paper and find someone passed
out on your front porch because they couldn't find a ride home or back to the bus. We are
opposed to it.
Further Commission Discussion
Catroppa: I am the owner of the Millennium and Chuck is my manager. I also own the Tony
C Transportation Company. We have buses, taxis, and limos. You asked Mr. Washington if
he could assure that people would take the bus and I will say yes. We have 18 security people
and 4 are in our parking lot. We can make sure nobody walks down that highway. Our small
shuttle bus seats 22 passengers and it strictly goes back and forth. I can assure you that nobody
will walk down that highway because the security in the parking lot will control that. I would
like to add something about your prior decision. After the 16th, we had adjusted our sound
system. The violation on the 16th was for music after 1:30 a.m. and we will appeal that. We
understand the decibel meter readings. I only have 2 tickets and those were the only ones I
signed. Friday the 15th, we had a violation. The 16th, I had my sound man completely
reworked it. The 16th we did get a ticket but it was for music after 1:30 a.m. with a 48 decibel
reading. That is in the police report. We did not get a decibel violation. We got an after hours
violation. We contend that the 1 p.m. violation is not fair because any noise including a truck
going by is over 72 decibels. We don't understand this. It needs to be refined and defined what
"noise" is. The ordinance provides any noise they hear within 150 feet. Subsequent to our
adjustments on Saturday, there were no decibel violations. It was a violation of noise after 1 a.m.
We have the report. We have made adjustments.
Johnson: The thing before us now is the shared parking agreement.
•
0
Planning Commission Minutes
October 25, 1999
Page 47
Catroppa: My security is there to prevent drinking in the parking lot, fighting in the parking
lot, and to keep people from walking down the highway. I can assure you of that.
Bunch: I have a question about the petition. This appears to be the adjacent neighbors to
the convenience store. Is that right?
Conklin: We received this shortly before our office closed and we have not verified this
information.
MOTION
Odom:
agreement.
Based on the staff report and comments, I move that we deny the shared parking
Ward: Second.
Roll Call
Upon roll call, the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 9-0-0.