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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-02-08 MinutesMINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FAYETTEVILLE PLANNING COMMISSION A regular meeting of the Fayetteville Planning Commission was held on Monday, February 8, 1999 at 5:30 p.m. in Room 219 of the City Administration Building, 113 W. Mountain, Fayetteville. Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Goss and Payton Court Reporters and at the time of the City Council agenda request deadline, those minutes were not available in total. Planning Division Senior Secretary, Janet Johns, transcribed the following minutes in order for the vacation and the rezonings to move forward. CONSENT AGENDA APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM THE JANUARY 25, 1999 MEETING VA98-12: VACATION UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST FELLOWSHIP, pp 444 This item was submitted by Dana Copp on behalf of Unitarian Universalist Fellowship for property located at 901 West Cleveland Street. The property is zoned R-3, High Density Residential. The request is to vacate the western half of the east -west alley from Storer to Leverett Street. VA99-1: VACATION GEORGE, pp214 This item was submitted by Jesse and Rhetha George for property located at 355 Chaucers Court. The property is zoned R-1, Low Density Residential. The request is to vacate a portion of the utility easement south and west of the property. Roll Call Upon roll call the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 9-0-0. 0 Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 2 RZ99-1: REZONING LINDSEY, pp287 This item was submitted by Thomas Hopper of Crafton, Tull and Associates on behalf of Lindsey Management Company for property located north of the Washington County Fairgrounds and east of Highway 71 bypass. The property is zoned A-1, Agricultural and contains approximately 22.3 acres. The request is to rezone the property to R-2, Medium Density Residential. Staff recommended rezoning the property from A-1 to R-2 with the inclusion that the applicant has been advised of the City of Fayetteville's future plans to develop Township Street on this property's southern boundary and that the City of Fayetteville's sewer facilities may be subject to a moratorium in the near future. Mr. Jim Lindsey was present on behalf of the project. • Staff and Applicant Presentation Vinson: The map that I have just passed out, I need to clarify that the Township development on the southern border was not on the southern border of this property as stated before. Township is not proposed to be on the southern border of this property as was stated. The fairgrounds are between this property and the proposal for Township in the future according to the 2020 Master Plan. That is what this map shows. Odom: So, Township is not a consideration with this rezoning request. Vinson: No, sir. Odom: All right Lindsey: I would like to present this for your consideration. It is 22.3 acres adjacent to the bypass. lfhas the agricultural park land on two sides. The bypass is on one side and Southwestern Bell has a tract for their truck depot. What we would like to do is present this in a way that we are talking about 228 units. What we are trying to do as an R-2 zone, there would be 535 units allowed there. We're talking about 228 and we're also talking about having for Arkansas Athletes Outreach, if that's what they want to do with this, a place where there would be a room for an indoor basketball facility and an outdoor athletic facility. Whether or not that • has to have a conditional use, I'm not sure in an R-2. But some facilities that would end up being for them. That is totally separate from our 228 units. We would like to get the whole Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 3 property zoned R-2, but I would just like to inform you that may come back to you at some point in time. What our thought process is that if you go around Fayetteville and you look and you see and you try to find R-2 property, it is rare. It's hard to find. This land is on the bypass. It is in fact a very good transition zone. It is surrounded by University and it's very questionable whether that land will ever be developed and it leaves it for what we think anyway is one of the few potentially desirable R-2 tracts that does not impact any neighborhood or group of people in a way that would have a negative influence. That is our basic approach. That is what we are trying to look for now and to make that an option. We're not building that much in Northwest Arkansas. The market has tightened up in Fayetteville. There will be a need as the University grows and we see this as a good location and good option for what we are intending to do and look forward to doing it. The density will be below R-2. We don't even care if you designate the density. We don't have a problem with that. We would just like to use that location as a nice, moderately priced parks complex. It will not be tax credits. There will not be any tax credits associated with it in any way. It will be a moderate priced apartment complex for the people who service the community anywhere on the bypass or some students, I would assume. But, probably more so for the community at large. That's where we're coming from and that is what we would like to present to you. • Odom: Thank you, Mr. Lindsey. Public Discussion None. Further Commission Discussion and Comments 16111101810 Mr. Estes made a motion to approve RZ99-1. Mr. Odom seconded the motion. Hoffrnan: At this point is it proper to extend the right of way or increase the right of way on McConnell to handle the additional traffic to be generated by this project? Little: We need to do that at the development stage. We will do that when it comes through in large scale development. • Hoffman: I just wanted to go on the record as saying we will look at that when that comes up then. . Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 4 Roll Call Upon roll call, the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 9-0-0. I • Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 5 RZ99-2: REZONING HENSEN, pp 523 This item was submitted by Brett Hensen for property located on Locust Street at Archibald Yell Boulevard. The property is zoned R-2, Medium Density Residential, and contains approximately 0.22 acres. The request is to rezone the property to C-2 Thoroughfare Commercial. Staff recommended rezoning the property to C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial. Caveat to the owner: A building permit shall not be issued until the removal of the existing portion of the structure located on City of Fayetteville property. Other items to be addressed at the building permit stage including commercial design standards, the facade of the building along Archibald Yell, the placement and height of the existing sign, and the parking lot. The Planning Commission will not review the site plans as the addition is under 10,000 square feet. Tom Hensen and Brett Hensen was present on behalf of the project. • Staff and Applicant Comments Vinson: Staff has nothing further. T. Hensen: The thing that concerns me the most is the continency. The lean-to mentioned in here was an intricate part of the original building for several reasons. The main reason is we receive night freight through that area. We put a 75 feet building on a 90 leet lot. The City worked with us very closely and gave us some variances. We are below the level of the street. Considerably below the level of the street and they allowed us some things in the form of variances on the side and on the setbacks. There is a very effective an a very elaborate drainage system around the building that has been there since the building was there about 16 or 17 years. It's very effective. The foundation is such that it is not set up for brick. That being said, what we are requesting is the lot that the building is on is below the level of the street and the lot that we are proposing putting a new building on is also below street level. What we are asking is for the lot next to us to be rezoned so that we can put a building on it approximately 3600 square feet. B. Hensen: My father (Tom) owns the property. I hope that in this we can clarify that we are strictly dealing with a rezoning in this meeting and that in no way are there any binding situations made as to the recommendations for changes to the existing structure. That's important. • Odom: I think the staff was concerned about that because this would not come back Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 6 before us. Is that correct? They were concerned that there were some issues that would be addressed on other applications. Vinson: Because this is a rezoning, the design requirements are not to be discussed at this time. At building permit time, they would be. Odom: You're just making the applicant aware of it. T. Hensen: Can I show you something. This is the original building and this is the survey. Odom: This apparently has been addressed in the past. Do have any more history on this than that? Vinson: We have not seen the photos or the plans. We have talked about what would be required at the building permit time because of the zoning and the nature of this business. The link to the building which was built at the time the building was built is in the right of way of the Archibald Yell. It's in Fayetteville's right of way, now. That is one reason we wanted to address • that. Odom: I think the applicant has indicated they have asked and received a variance on that. Do you have any history on that? Vinson: We couldn't find any records of a variance. Estes: This is a request to rezone a 50 feet strip of land which was split from the lot to the south by an administrative lot split which was approved by our City Engineer. Having made the applicant aware of the problem of the lean-to encroaching on the City's right of way and the sign being out of compliance with the Sign Ordinance. MOTION Mr. Estes made a motion to approve the rezoning request RZ99-2. Mr. Odom seconded the motion. Further Discussion Odom: If this approved and they come back for a building permit and have some . additional information or would like to make a presentation, do they have the right to appeal any decision you have back to us for consideration? • Minutes of a Meeing of the Fayetteville Planning Commission February 8, 1999 Page 7 Little: It depends on the sort of decision it is. It either comes back to the Planning Commission or it goes to Board of Adjustment. There is a right of appeal. Odom: We're not trapping them in anyway by allowing for the rezoning request at this time? Little: No. I don't think so. Roll Call Upon roll call the motion passed with a unanimous vote of 9-0-0. Meeting adjourned at 9:51p.m. • 0 &04 0 RIC92.dr1� REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION THE CITY OF FAYETTEVILLE, ARKANSAS City Administration Building, Room 219 113 West Mountain, Fayetteville, Arkansas February 8, 1999 -:-. STAFF: Aleft Little, Planning Director Brent Vinson, Associate Planning Director BOARD: Conrad Odom, Chairman Phyllis Johnson Gary Tucker Lee Ward Loren Shackleford John Forney Sharon Hoover Lorel Hoffman Bob Estes DEVELOPMENT COORDINATOR: Dawn Warrick SENIOR SECRETARY/SENIOR PLANNING CLERK: Liz Hopson GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 1 REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION 2 THE CITY OF FAYETTEVILLE, ARKANSAS 3 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We're going to go ahead and 5 get started tonight, if I could have your attention. I 6 first want to bring it to everyone's attention that there 7 is an item that has been pulled from the agenda. That is 8 the item which is listed as Number 2 under old business. 9 That is the conditional use, the Southwestern Bell. That 10 is the cell tower, and the Lutheran Church. That item has 11 been tabled until the February 22nd of 1999 meeting, and so 12 we will not be addressing that issue tonight. • 13 The first item to come before us tonight is 14 is the consent agenda, and on the consent agenda we have 15 three items. The first item is the approval of the minutes 16 from the January 25th of 1999 meeting. 17 The second item is Vacation 98-12.00, the 18 Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, submitted by Dana Copp 19 on behalf of Unitarian Universalist Fellowship for property 20 located at 901 West Cleveland Street. The property is 21 zoned R-3, high density residential and the request is to 22 vacate the western half of the east -west alley from Storer 23 to Leverett Street. 24 The next item on the consent agenda is 25 another vacation, 98-1.00, submitted by Jesse and Rhetha GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 1 1 George for property located at 355 Chaucers Court, The 2 property is zoned R-1, low density residential, and the 3 request is to vacate a portion of the utility easement 4 south and west of the property. 5 Does any member of the audience or any 6 member of the planning commission wish any of those items 7 to be removed from the consent agenda? 8 Seeing none, I'll ask that you call the roll 9 -- or do we have a motion for the consent agenda? 10 COMMISSIONER WARD: I make a motion that we 11 approve -- do we just need to do one at a time? 12 CHAIRMAN ODOM: To approve the consent • 13 agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER WARD: To approve the consent 15 agenda. 16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Second. 17 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion and a 18 second to approve the consent agenda. Any discussion? 19 Call the roll. 20 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 21 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. 22 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 23 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes, 24 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 25 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes. • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 2 1 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 3 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 4 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 5 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 6 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes, 7 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 8 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes, 9 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? 10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, 11 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 12 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes. • 13 MR. ODOM: The consent agenda is approved 14 unanimously. 15 The first item we have on tonight's agenda 16 is a conditional use, Bakery Feeds, submitted by Jim McCord 17 on behalf of Bakery Feeds for property located at 1348 Cato 18 Springs Road. The property is zoned I-1, heavy commercial, 19 light industrial. The request is to allow a center for 20 collecting recyclable materials in an I-1 zone. 21 Before we get started addressing the issue 22 that is before us, which are the conditions of approval, 23 there have been several items raised from many different 24 directions really, and we have asked that our city attor- 25 ney, Mr. Rose, come before us tonight and address those GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 3 1 issues and, in particular, whether or not the application 2 that is before us for a conditional use should be before 3 us, whether they are a legal entity or non -legal entity, 4 and Mr. Rose, if you could, sort of bring us up to speed on 5 those issues. 6 JERRY ROSE: I'll sure try to. Thank you 7 for having me. It's probably rare, in my experience, that 8 an attorney appearing before a public board clarifies much 9 of anything. It's even much rarer that an attorney appear - 10 ing before a public board shortens a meeting. I'll try to 11 do both and try to at least be reasonably concise with the 12 questions that Commissioner Odom has asked. • 13 I think one thing that appears to be clear, 14 and you don't have to be an incredible legal scholar to 15 figure it out, is that assuming the award of this condi- 16 tional use is properly done, and assuming the conditions 17 are met that you set, then at that time Bakery Feeds is in 18 conformity with our zoning laws and regulations. They are 19 currently in an I-1 zone and, again assuming you decide 20 they qualify for it and are awarded a conditional use as a 21 center for collecting recyclable materials, they then 22 become a use which is permissible under that I-1 zone to 23 the planning commission. The purpose of our zoning law, as 24 I understand it, is not to seek fines or seek penalties or 25 to prosecute people if we can help from doing that. Its GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 4 1 real purpose is to bring all of the folks into conformity 2 with our laws and into compliance with our ordinances and, 3 accordingly, we have traditionally allowed -- and I think 4 that Ms. Little will agree with me, we have traditionally 5 allowed those who are out of compliance to get into 6 compliance and to try to seek some remedy under our ordi- 7 nances to get in conformity with them. So accordingly, I 8 think it is proper that they are before you seeking a 9 conditional use to put them in conformity with our ordi- 10 nances, You, however, are the trier of fact and may decide 11 to award it or not award it based on the facts that you 12 hear, and I think that's proper because either, one, they • 13 are before you because they are allowed the opportunity to 14 enlarge a lawful pre-existing use -- that's one way they 15 may be before you. Two, it may be because it allows them 16 to correct an improper zoning. Maybe you feel that they 17 are improperly zoned now and need to get into conformity, 18 and this will allow you to do that, or it may be something 19 as simple as what they say it is, is that they are here 20 mainly voluntarily, as I understand it, in an effort to get 21 in conformity with our laws. But whatever it is, however 22 they get here, it is not much relevance to you in your 23 discussions, I don't think. I think it is important to 24 determine by the facts what they are, whether or not they 25 are what they say they are and whether or not they will be • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 5 1 in compliance with our laws if you should decide that they 2 are deserving of a conditional use under the terms and 3 conditions that you set. 4 Does that help any at all? 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Not in the least, but thank 6 you for trying. 7 JERRY ROSE: Not in the least, but thanks 8 for trying. Good. 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Actually it does. Thank you 10 Mr. Rose. I would ask if there are any questions from any 11 staff members or anyone on the planning commission to Mr. 12 Rose. Otherwise I'm going to allow him to move on. • 13 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Mr, Chairman? 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Tucker. 15 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Jerry, it seems to me 16 like one of the issues, or perhaps the key issue for me, 17 before we move on, is determining whether this is a recy- 18 cling plant or if it is, indeed, a processing plant. It's 19 my understanding that recycling is permitted in I-1 as a 20 conditional use. A food processing plant would not be. 21 Did you look at -- 22 JERRY ROSE: Sure I did. I -- well, you're 23 putting me in a position of being a judge and not an attor- 24 ney. I think you need to listen to the facts to determine 25 whether or not these folks are or are not in your opinion a GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 6 n �J I recycling center. If you believe they are not a recycling 2 center, I believe that you may then reject their applica- 3 tion, if you wish, because you are not then empowered to 4 award a conditional use to a use you find to be wrong. But 5 I think that's a factual determination. They believe they 6 are that. Your planning administrator has worked with them 7 and has come up with conditions in conformity with that 8 but, again, if you believe that is untrue, if you believe 9 it is factually untrue, I think that you may reject it for 10 that reason, because you are not empowered under your -- is 11 the way it's phrased in the -- 12 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Can you give us any • 13 guidance, legal guidance in terms of what defines the two? 14 JERRY ROSE: I'm sorry? 15 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Processor versus 16 recycler? Do we have anything, or is it clearly -- 17 JERRY ROSE: No, sir. I can't cite you to 18 any case law. I can't cite you to any help under your 19 statutes. I can read to you your ordinances and what they 20 say, but essentially there is a -- it's Use Number -- what 21 is it? Unit Number 23 -- 22 MS. HOPSON: 28, 23 JERRY ROSE: 28, 24 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: 28 unfortunately gives 25 no descriptive. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 7 1 JERRY ROSE: And little else. It just says 2 a "recycling center," "center for recycled goods." And, 3 again, I think that's a matter of facts to you. I think 4 you need to ask them what they do and what they do there. 5 If it's a recycling center, that's one thing. If it's 6 manufacturing, that's another thing. If it's a roller 7 rink, it's something else again. But I think that it's 8 their obligation under the terms of their asking here and 9 their application to show to you that they are a recycling 10 center. 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. Mr. Rose, I 12 thank you for being here tonight. • 13 I'm going to now bring it forward to the 14 applicant for a presentation. We've previously met. We 15 had a public hearing. We tabled the matter so that the 16 applicant would have the opportunity to work with the staff 17 and see if something couldn't be worked out better in the 18 conditions of approval. So staff, I'd like for you to 19 comment on what has taken place and where we stand now. 20 MS. LITTLE: We have had the opportunity to 21 meet and we did discuss several of the conditions of ap- 22 proval. Particularly we discussed Number 2, which is the 23 hours of operation. We discussed Number 5, relating to 24 equipment for odor, and we discussed Number 7, relating to 25 enclosure of materials. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 8 n LA 1 We weren't able to arrive at anything dif- 2 ferent, Staff could not change its recommendation to you. 3 With regard to hours, the applicant has proposed that they 4 be allowed to operate 120 hours, which is essentially 24 5 hours a day, five days a week. With regard to the scrub - 6 bers or the other odor type of equipment, I understand -- 7 and I just received this information this morning -- that 8 the applicant would consent to being reviewed after a 9 period of six months, but wants to have a broader range of 10 options available to them in terms of what might be done to 11 correct any problems. I may be misstating that so I'll 12 depend on their representative to correct that, and then . 13 with regard to the enclosure, one of the things that was 14 presented was use of plastic strips that the trucks would 15 back into. We have pictures. We know the trucks when they 16 unload are higher than the building itself. So I really 17 don't understand how -- the application of the plastic 18 strips. 19 From a staff perspective, we felt several 20 things did need to be clarified. Number one, there has 21 been an eleventh condition added, and that was discussed at 22 the last meeting, and that eleventh condition is that no 23 rendering activity shall be allowed at this site. 24 For Condition Number 1, at the last meeting 25 the applicant objected to furnishing sources of all raw GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 9 r'1 LJ 1 material. In other words, they objected to furnishing the 2 company names. The staff really never intended that by 3 that condition but we've taken that out so that it just 4 simply reads "A complete list of all raw materials used at 5 facility shall be submitted to the city planning division." 6 We've also added, though, a condition, a 7 signed statement from Bakery Feeds, agreeing not to accept 8 for processing any animal parts with the exception of 9 grease from restaurant or fast food places. We felt like 10 that was necessary to clarify exactly what types of prod - 11 ucts they accept now and what they might accept in the 12 future, and then at Number 7, we've added 7-A. This re - 13 lates to the enclosure of the trailers as they unload the 14 vehicles that are used to carry materials to the plant. 15 The 7a condition is that "All trailers used to haul product 16 to or from the plant shall be enclosed and/or covered," and 17 those are the only changes that we have made since your 18 last meeting. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. I will now bring 20 it to Mr. McCord on behalf of the applicant to review those 21 items or conditions of approval which you all worked on, 22 and we'll take your comments. 23 JIM McCORD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 24 members of the commission. Let me first address the ques- 25 tion that Commissioner Tucker raised, and that is whether • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 10 • 1 the existing facility is a recycling facility. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I tell you what. Before you 3 do that, I'd like you to address the conditions of approv- 4 al. Then we're going to come back to that issue. 5 JIM McCORD: Whatever the chair -- 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Because that's something new 7 that has come up, and we'll address that next. 8 JIM McCORD: All right. Whatever the chair 9 desires. If that's the order of procedure that the chair 10 desires, I would like to turn the presentation over to the 11 general counsel for Bakery Feeds, Kevin Murphy, who will 12 address each of the eleven items of conditions recommended . 13 by staff. Just as a matter of background information, we 14 do appreciate the opportunity we had to meet with the 15 planning director, Alett Little. We also met with public 16 works director, Charles Venable, and city attorney, Jerry 17 Rose, for approximately two hours. Ms. Little had a semi - 18 nar so she had to leave the meeting after about 45 minutes, 19 but the discussions did continue with Mr. Venable and Mr. 20 Rose. The general counsel for Bakery Feeds penned some 21 wording, proposed compromises, on several of the conditions 22 at that meeting. Ms. Little was not there when that word - 23 ing was penned, and I don't want to imply that it's been 24 approved by city staff, but it has been discussed by city 25 staff without her present. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 11 • 1 Now, at that point, I'll turn the meeting 2 over to Kevin Murphy, general counsel for Bakery Feeds, and 3 Bill Reagor, president of the Bakery Feeds Division of 4 Griffin Industries. 5 KEVIN MURPHY: Good evening, Mr. Chairman 6 and members of the commission. 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Why don't you pull that 8 microphone up to you so we can hear you a little bit bet - 9 ter. 10 KEVIN MURPHY: Okay. Mr. Chairman, members 11 of the commission, Ms. Little, ladies and gentleman. Mr. 12 McCord is right. At the request of the commission, you . 13 asked if we would come back and discuss potential compro- 14 mixes on several of the conditions that we had some diffi- 15 culty with. We came back last week and we had the opportu- 16 nity to meet with Mr. Rose on two occasions and then Ms. 17 Little and Mr. Venable as well, and we discussed the three 18 issues, and as a result of those discussions, getting the 19 input from several people from the city, I took the oppor- 20 tunity to draft all eleven conditions so that there would - 21 n't be any misunderstanding, because, Mr. Chairman, there 22 were some things that we agreed to. There were some things 23 where we were discussing the wording and definitions, and 24 so I thought it would be beneficial if I put all eleven. 25 What I would like to do, with your permission, air, is to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 12 n I briefly go through them, because many of them you'll see 2 that we have no disagreement, and then concentrate on those 3 where I've made some changes or some additions, with your 4 permission. 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: That will be fine. Do you 6 have a copy of them for us? 7 KEVIN MURPHY: They were distributed to all 8 the commission members at the agenda meeting. 9 MS. LITTLE: They were handed to you as you 10 got on the bus. 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You don't have an extra 12 copy, do you? I've got some we can share, Mr. Murphy. Go 13 ahead. 14 KEVIN MURPHY: Okay. Mr. Chairman, Number 15 1, Condition Number 1, we have no problem. It was changed 16 to ask Bakery Feeds to tender to the city planning staff a 17 list of all raw materials. We will be pleased to do that. 18 So we have no disagreement on Number 1. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. Now, Mr. Murphy, 20 before you move on to Item Number 2, there has been a 21 separate recommendation by staff and a signed statement 22 from Bakery Feeds agreeing not to accept for processing any 23 animal parts with the exception of grease from restaurants 24 and fast food places. That I do not see is incorporated 25 into your list here. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 13 n 1 KEVIN MURPHY: Yes. Yes, sir. I received 2 this today but as you will see, I put a definition in 3 Number 11. I believe it was Ms. Hoffman that asked the 4 questions about rendering, if memory serves me correctly, 5 and so what I did was I actually put a definition in so 6 that everybody could understand what it is that you want us 7 to be prohibited from, and I spelled it out. So with your 8 permission, I can get to that, because I think la -- you 9 might like 11 better than la. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Let's move on. 11 KEVIN MURPHY: Okay. Number 2. We had a 12 discussion about the hours and, if you will recall, we 13 listed several reasons why we had problems with being 14 limited to 96 hours and from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. I 15 won't go through them in detail. We discussed it a lot two 16 weeks ago but let me once again explain to you the reasons 17 behind what I drafted. 18 First, we have existing contracts with our 19 customers, and those existing contracts call for us to be 20 on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There is no set 21 schedule among our customers, and so being limited by the 22 actual times and days could cause us to be in violation of 23 contracts with customers. 24 Second, the product is degradable and the 25 hour limitation concerned us that that could cause more • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 14 n �J 1 problems than not. 2 Third, as I indicated to you previously, 3 this is not a product that can be landfilled because, 4 again, contractually we have promised our customers that we 5 would not do that. What I did do was draft a provision -- 6 and for the neighbors I would like to read it very briefly. 7 "Bakery Feeds will limit the hours of the drying operation 8 to 120 hours per week, barring exceptional circumstances. 9 Exceptional circumstances will be defined as a request from 10 a customer due to an uncontrollable and/or upset condition. it Bakery Feeds will notify city planning staff of exceptional 12 circumstances after they occur, so the staff can monitor • 13 these instances." Thus, we've gone from seven days a week, 14 24 hours a day, which is 168 hours, to 120, which is more 15 than moving halfway towards the amount of hours that Ms. 16 Little listed. 17 Second, Mr. Reagor explained to you what -- we 18 talked about an upset or an exceptional condition last 19 time, and he gave you one particular for instance about a 20 customer that lost a whole run of product and needed us 21 there right away, and what I did put for city staff's 22 purposes is that if these situations occur, we will notify 23 them so they can monitor them so that they can make certain 24 that we're not appointing an exceptional circumstance for 25 an excuse to go beyond the hours. ' GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 15 1 The other thing that I'd like to mention to 2 you is this affords us the opportunity to have some flexi- 3 bility while at the same time being able to do what we 4 wanted to do and what we told you last time, and that is 5 that we believe and we know that this dryer and this system 6 will allow us to cut back our hours. The hours that are in 7 Condition Number 2, as Ms. Little has put forth to you is 8 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. six days a week. It is our hope 9 with this new condition and what are plans are for this 10 system that we can limit it to the point where we can do as 11 least amount of possible work on the weekends when people 12 are more inclined to be home. 13 The other thing that I want you to be cer- 14 tain about is, we have a monitor on the drying machine that 15 keeps track of the hours so that we can monitor those hours 16 and the city can make certain that we're complying with 17 them, and we will have that on the machine so that compli- 18 ance can be verified. Ronald Reagan said "Trust but veri- 19 fy," and I want to give Ms. Little the opportunity to do 20 the same thing. 21 Number 3. Number 3, we have no problems 22 with the existing condition. All waste water from the 23 facility shall meet OMI's standards. 24 Number 4. Number 4, I changed, Mr. Chair - 25 man, just slightly, so that there would be no definition GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 16 1 problems. I think it does the same thing, if not a little 2 bit better, but it makes certain that there are no disputes 3 over minor words. 4 Number 4 reads, "All spills of raw or fin- s ished materials on site or related trailer spills elsewhere 6 shall be cleaned up and disposed of immediately." What I 7 changed that to was, "All upset conditions occurring on 8 site shall be cleaned up immediately. All upset conditions 9 shall be reported to the city planning division and the 10 Arkansas Department of Pollution Control and Ecology," and 11 that we would be responsible for the costs of any spills 12 cleaned up by the city, which was the same language. 13 The difference being -- I did not want to 14 get hung up, Mr. Chairman, on what the definition was of a 15 spill. If we had a few taco chips or potato chips that 16 went on the ground, I would not want us to have a battle 17 about what the definition of a spill was. We discussed 18 what an upset condition was last week. I think the commis - 19 sioners were fairly satisfied with what Mr. Reagor had to 20 say about that, and so I would ask you to consider that 21 because basically it gets the job done that Ms. Little 22 wanted, I believe, but it makes for a clearer definition. 23 Number 5. Number 5 is basically the key 24 issue along with Number 2. I'd like to explain to you what 25 I did with Number 5. I took the comments of Mr. Estes and GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 17 n 1 a couple of the other commissioners and went about the 2 process of trying to draft a condition that could be a good 3 compromise. The way the condition reads now, it says that 4 after six months if we have two complaints -- because it 5 uses the word "complaints" plural -- if we have just two 6 complaints, whether they're real or whether they're bogus, 7 we would have to put scrubbers, charcoal canisters, and 8 afterburners, and it actually calls, if you read the liter - 9 al reading of the condition, it calls for all three. I 10 don't think Ms. Little meant that but that's the way it 11 reads. So any two people could make a complaint, even if 12 our new system, costing half a million dollars, works 13 perfectly, and that would require an unbelievable expense 14 when it wasn't necessary, and so given that, I tried to 15 draft something that I think would be satisfactory to the 16 city and to the commissioners. It reads, "Bakery Feeds and 17 city personnel, including planning staff and the city 18 attorney, will meet every six months, if the city so choos- 19 es, to discuss relevant issues regarding the plant." Then 20 I put this burden on Bakery Feeds, and I had a good discus - 21 sion about this with the city attorney. "Good faith dis- 22 cussions will occur on the part of Bakery Feeds in the 23 event that the city has received consistent and valid 24 complaints regarding Bakery Feeds' operations." That means 25 that we have a duty -- and "good faith" has legal GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 18 1 connotations -- that we would have to have -- we would have 2 a good faith duty to sit down and to have these discus - 3 sions. I also put down "consistent and valid complaints," 4 because we have received complaints coming into our plant 5 on days when we were not even in operation, and so just in 6 the wording of the condition right now it just said "com- 7 plaints." 8 Lastly, "In no way does the city waive any 9 of its legal rights by attending these meetings, including 10 but not limited to, any nuisance lawsuit." Again, in the 11 two days of discussions I had with Mr. Rose, who I very 12 much thank for his time and his input, he wanted assurances 13 and he wanted to make certain that any type of compromise 14 that I propose that the city would not waive any of their 15 legal rights if you agree to this, and so -- I believe 16 that's the law anyway, but I put it in the condition that 17 in no way does the city waive its rights in the event that 18 this new system goes in and the complaints are coming at 19 the city loud and clear. He wanted the ability to be able 20 to say, "I can file suit," and this condition doesn't waive 21 it, and I agreed. 22 "Bakery Feeds also agrees to respond to 23 valid complaints made on the part of its neighbors." We do 24 that already but I saw fit to put it in a condition so that 25 if complaints are received, we have a duty to respond to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 19 n 1 the complaints, meet the people, and investigate it. 2 I hope that you can see and understand that 3 this is a good compromise. With that said, I have one 4 other thing to discuss before I move on. We told you last 5 time that we tried a scrubber in another plant and it 6 didn't work, and I'd like to be able to explain that to you 7 a little bit. We had a situation in Henderson, Kentucky 8 where we were receiving complaints from neighbors, just 9 like the situation is here. We tried a scrubber. We spent 10 the money, and it was six figures, and it did not work. We 11 tried rose chemicals, peach -smelling chemicals. We tried a 12 great deal of things and it didn't work. So we went about • 13 the process of looking elsewhere to try to see what other 14 folks do to solve these types of problems, and the higher 15 stack was the conclusion that we reached. The state be - 16 lieves it, and it's in their literature. They think this 17 is going to work, but I went to the city of Henderson -- 18 and I enclosed a letter in the packets that you received 19 with your -- at the agenda meeting, and I'd like to very 20 briefly, Mr. Chairman -- it's only two paragraphs. This is 21 from the City of Henderson Economic Development Council, in 22 Henderson, Kentucky. He wrote this letter to our general 23 manager in Henderson. "Dear Mr. Chambers: Please be 24 advised that since Bakery Feeds has raised the height of 25 its exhaust stack from 50 feet to 100 feet, the office of GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 20 1 the Henderson Economic Development Council has received no 2 complaints about odor from your plant. 3 "That extension appears to have alleviated 4 the concerns of the residents of that part of town. Thanks 5 for being a responsible corporate citizen. Sincerely, 6 Jimmy Jones, Executive Director of the Henderson Economic 7 Development Corporation." 8 I brought this to you because I know that my 9 simply telling you this -- I would hope that I have come 10 across as credible, but I wanted to have something in your it hands and I wanted something for the neighbors as well, 12 because the neighbors in Henderson were giving us 13 complaints and we put this new system in and it worked. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Murphy, please address 15 your comments to us. 16 KEVIN MURPHY: Okay. I apologize. 17 CHAIRMAN ODOM: That's okay. 18 KEVIN MURPHY: So I ask you to consider the 19 way that the condition is drafted now by the city. If we 20 receive two complaints, we have to put in scrubbers, after - 21 burners, and charcoal canisters, when we know it does not 22 work, and second, all three is an expense that is extremely 23 large in a futile way, and so I went about the process of 24 trying to draft a condition that would solve the problem. 25 Okay. Number 6 is okay as is. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 21 n 1 Number 7. Seven reads that we would have to 2 build an addition to the building to provide total enclo- 3 sure to trailers as they unload. It's my understanding 4 that the commission had the opportunity to see the opera- s tion on Thursday, and you'll see that the way we operate 6 right now with the trailers unloading as they go up, the 7 product is, in fact, enclosed. The vehicles that travel on 8 the roadway are enclosed. So I drafted a provision that 9 says, "Bakery Feeds agrees to unload rear unloading covered 10 trucks in its delivery process" to ensure that the concern 11 of Ms. Little would be reached. 7a that was put in today, 12 "All trailers used to haul product to or from the plant • 13 shall be enclosed and/or covered." That's fine but build - 14 ing an addition to the building, with due respect to Ms. 15 Little on how she drafted this would, again, be an exercise 16 in futility because when the trailer goes up, it's only at 17 the bottom where it's being unloaded, because the trailer 18 is covered and where it's being unloaded is, in fact, 19 covered. So there is really no need to build an addition 20 to the building, and I would very much ask you to consider 21 that. 22 Number 8, I made a change here for, again, 23 clarification, and my change, from a business standpoint, I 24 think it's better for the city. In fact, it's broader. 25 Condition Number 8, as it reads now, reads, "Grounds of the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 22 n �J 1 facility will be kept free from all debris and food prod - 2 ucts that might attract birds or other animals to the site. 3 All raw or finished materials must be covered or totally 4 enclosed at all times." 5 I wrote that "Bakery Feeds agrees to apply 6 at all times good housekeeping practices at its facility," 7 meaning the entire facility, and so the business definition 8 and the broad definition of "good housekeeping practices," 9 I believe not only encompasses what is written in Paragraph 10 7 on the part of the city, but is even broader, and again, 11 the reason why I made the change is because I did not want 12 to get into a problem over a word or two about total enclo- • 13 sures, double -locked doors, and the like. I was worried 14 about fire code issues with that as well, and so I agreed 15 wholeheartedly, and throughout the entire plant, to apply 16 good housekeeping practices. 17 Number 9. Number 9, mine is virtually the 18 same as Ms. Little. I agree that we should obtain all 19 legally required permits prior to undertaking any addition - 20 al work on the part of the facility. 21 10. We're in total agreement on 10. That's 22 the law and we will comply. 23 Number 11 -- and in particular Commissioner 24 Hoffman, Number 11, what I did was I defined rendering. I 25 said, "Bakery Feeds agrees not to operate a rendering GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 23 • 1 facility at this location. A rendering facility shall be 2 defined as a facility which handles animal and poultry by - 3 products such as bone, hide, offal, feathers, and blood," 4 which were some of the gory details that we were talking 5 about two weeks ago, and that is the definition of render - 6 ing. So that, I believe, solves the concern on the part of 7 the city that this will be limited to restaurant grease. 8 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Murphy. I 9 think that sort of concludes the work that the staff and 10 the applicant have been working on since we tabled this 11 issue. 12 Commissioners have passed a note to me which • 13 is relevant and that is that the planning commission de - 14 pends on the staff, including Ms. Little, to make recommen- 15 dations such as conditions of approval, and these are 16 recommendations of the staff and not personal issues, but 17 they are recommendations for consideration that we take, 18 and I think that's a well -noted point. 19 What I would like to do now is to come back 20 to Mr. McCord because there has been a new issue raised 21 with regard to whether or not this body is empowered to 22 give consideration to this conditional use request, and 23 that is dealing specifically with the issue of whether or 24 not this is a recycling facility or a manufacturing facili- 25 ty. • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 24 1 JIM McCORD: My response to that question is 2 two -fold. One is the planning director is charged by 3 ordinance with interpreting and administering the zoning 4 ordinance. The planning director has made a determination 5 that this facility is, in fact, a recycling facility. 6 Secondly, this same facility -- and when I 7 say "same," I mean the same equipment as proposed -- has 8 been cited for an award in the state of Pennsylvania as a 9 recycling facility. The Chester County Chamber of Commerce 10 awarded the Bakery Feeds plant in that county a -- it's 11 called a "Green Award" for innovative technology in recy- 12 cling. Your staff has determined it's a recycling facili- • 13 ty. You've made the comment you rely on staff. That's all 14 I can say. 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Well, what I would 16 like to do now is to take public comment on this issue. 17 Now, it's important to note that we have already had one 18 public meeting on this application, and what I would cau- 19 tion members of the audience doing is getting back up and 20 rehashing the issues that we have already -- that have 21 already been brought up. There was a record made of the 22 last meeting and it is well documented; however, I think 23 one important reason to have public comment is this new 24 issue that has been brought up, and that is with regard to 25 whether or not we're even empowered to hear the applica- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521.8060 25 I tion. So if you are going to comment, I would like you to 2 focus your comments on that issue. If it comes over into 3 the conditions, that's okay. Just try not to rehash. Is 4 there any member of the audience that would like to address 5 us? 6 LEN SCHAPER: Len Schaper. I'm on Pratt 7 Drive. I'm not going to preach at you tonight. I do have 8 some questions because Mr. McCord has said one thing and my 9 understanding would be something else. Alett, can I ask 10 you to read the definition of Use Unit 28, which is the use 11 unit that these people are applying for? 12 MS. LITTLE: Is that permissible, Chair? • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Alett, I'm going to let you 14 answer, but I would like you to maybe explain why it's 15 relevant. 16 MS. LITTLE: Certainly. "Unit 28, Center 17 for collecting recyclable materials. Description. Unit 28 18 is provided in order that centers for collecting recyclable 19 materials may be located in appropriate commercial and 20 industrial areas. Included uses. Center for collecting 21 recyclable materials," and that is all that is said in Unit 22 28, 23 With regard to Mr. McCord's comment that the 24 planning director or planning administrator or city planner 25 or whatever I am has already made that determination, my GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 26 1 recollection of the conversation is I -- when we were 2 talking about the facility that we have there, I said that 3 the only way this facility could exist in I-1 is if it were 4 a center for collecting recyclable materials, and we were 5 referring to the page in question at that time. 6 JIM McCORD: If I misspoke, I apologize. 7 LEN SCHAPER: Thank you, Alett. When I read 8 those words, those words are very specific, particularly 9 the word "collecting." It's very specific. The micro - 10 phones are not very good tonight. I will speak up but it's 11 very hard to hear you folks in the audience too. I don't 12 know if they could turn the sound up. • 13 "Center for collecting recyclable materials" 14 to me means the kind of facility that the city runs down in 15 the Industrial Park, which is all the materials recovery 16 facility. It's where they used to take the contents of the 17 blue bags that we put out for recycling and collect them. 18 Aluminum cans go into one container. Plastic Number 1 goes 19 somewhere else. Newspaper goes somewhere else. Loaded 20 into big trailers and it's taken off-site to be processed 21 by someone who does that kind of work. They turn it into 22 something new. That's why the word "collecting" is in 23 there. Collection center, what goes out the back door is 24 essentially the same as what came in the front door, only 25 it's just been collected and accumulated until you have an GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 27 1 economically viable amount of the stuff that somebody is 2 willing to buy from you. That, to me, is what a center for 3 collecting recyclable materials is. Alett, do you think 4 there is some other meaning to that? 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I don't think it's appropri- 6 ate for her -- 7 LEN SCHAPER: Well, these are questions, 8 Conrad, that -- this is the core of what we need to talk 9 about. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think that the city attor- 11 ney has informed the planning commission that we are, in 12 fact, the finders of fact. • 13 LEN SCHAPER: Okay. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: That we are to make that 15 determination. 16 LEN SCHAPER: Well, then, I would ask all of 17 you to think about how you would define a center for col - 18 lecting recyclable materials and that, of course, is a 19 permissible use in an I-1 zone on a conditional use, and 20 that's what the applicant has come here to ask for. Howev- 21 er, I don't think that's what Bakery Feeds does. Bakery 22 Feeds takes in one kind of material, processes it, and 23 creates a different kind of material. Now, that is not 24 collecting. That is manufacturing, and we have several use 25 units that deal with manufacturing. One of them is allowed GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 28 1 in an I-1 zone, and that's Use Unit 22. It says manufac- 2 turing. "Description. Use 22 consists of industrial uses 3 which usually generates some adverse environmental effects 4 and for this reason should be located away from uses which 5 do not produce adverse effects." Included as examples of 6 Use Unit 22 are fabricated metal products, fabricated 7 structural products, and miscellaneous manufacturing, 8 including musical instruments, sporting goods, toys, etcet- 9 era. What Bakery Feeds produces is a food. It's an animal 10 food but it's still a food product, and when we look to our 11 use units to find where that is in the use units, where 12 does that appear? It appears in Use Unit 23 very specifi- • 13 cally. "Food and allied products," Use Unit 23, Now 14 somebody just took my seat, so that's -- I have nowhere to 15 go when I get done. The only place is out. 16 Use Unit 23 -- and Use Unit 23 is defined as 17 heavy industrial, and it says, "Unit 23 consists of uses 18 which cause the greatest adverse environmental effects 19 because of odor, noise, unsightliness, air pollution and 20 explosions." They are singled out along with "repair 21 service," "wrecking and demolition," "apparel," "clay 22 products," "furniture and allied products." The big heavy 23 industry kind of stuff. Food and allied products, they are 24 not allowed in an I-1 zone. So to me all of the conditions 25 that we're talking about here that pertain to a Use Unit GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 29 1 28, center for collecting recyclable materials, are not 2 applicable to Bakery Feeds, because they are not a center 3 for collecting recyclable materials. They are, indeed, a 4 food and allied products manufacturing facility that legal - 5 ly cannot exist in an I-1 zone, and I trust you will deny 6 their conditional use tonight because the reality is that 7 it's not legal to grant them a conditional use for some - 8 thing that they don't do. 9 Now, we could ask ourselves how we got to 10 this, how we got to this point. They've been in business 11 for several years. Well, when I was on the council -- and 12 certainly actions that came to us on the council from you, • 13 there were lots of times that business people, before they 14 made an investment in a piece of property, came and said, 15 "I need to have this rezoned for X -Y -Z, because I want to 16 do such -and -such on it." We've had lots of those. You've 17 got some of them before you tonight. I see Jim Lindsey was 18 here. He wants to change an A-1 to an R-2 in order to do 19 something on that piece of property. It's the responsibil- 20 ity of the business or the individual who wants to change 21 the use of a piece of property or to do something legally 22 on that piece of property to come to the planning commis - 23 cion, to come to the city council, and request that that 24 happen. Bakery Feeds has never done that. They moved into 25 this facility, they set up their shop, they started to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 30 1 produce this animal feed, and never asked if it was okay to 2 do that. Now, these folks are not novices. This is a 3 large corporation. They've dealt before with local zoning. 4 Conrad, you understand the term "due diligence," and that's 5 what corporations do when they investigate a business 6 opportunity, and certainly, one of the things a corporation 7 does in performing due diligence is to look at the zoning 8 and the legality of what they're intending to do. I can 9 only assume, these being knowledgeable people, that they 10 did that, and if they did that and they were honest about 11 it, they would have noted that our ordinance does not allow 12 them to produce food or allied products in an I-1 zone. So • 13 I'm confused about why they ever entered into that contract 14 to buy that property in the first place and set up their 15 business there. I hope you will find that they are not a 16 legal use and that, therefore, they cannot be granted this 17 conditional use. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Schaper, 19 KATHLEEN DOSS: Kathleen Doss, 1125 Cato 20 Springs Road. I just had one statement to say. I told you 21 last time that I was here that I was disappointed with what 22 the state had done. Imagine my dismay at finding out that 23 this place has been in operation for four years because of 24 something the city did not do. The city did not follow up 25 with what they were supposed to, as I understand it. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 31 1 Bakery Feeds did not do what they were supposed to do. The 2 city did not do what they were supposed to do. So we have 3 been suffering for four years because of that. I do not 4 understand why we want to bend over backwards to allow this 5 company to stay in Fayetteville, knowing their history with 6 us, let alone, anybody else. I don't understand -- unless 7 it's because we're afraid we'll be dragged into court, and 8 I've heard that the last couple of weeks that perhaps the 9 reason we want to really work with them and get them to 10 stay is so they won't take us to court if we shut them 11 down. Now, I may be way off base here. That may not be 12 what's happening, but that's what I have heard. • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Ms. Doss, let me make some - 14 thing clear. 15 KATHLEEN DOSS: Okay, 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We hear applications that 17 are brought before us. We hear all of those on the merits. 18 We do not bend over backwards or try to help or hurt any 19 business that comes before us. We listen to the applica- 20 tion. We weigh the evidence. We are not in the position 21 to shut plants down. That's not what the planning commis - 22 sion does. We only react to applications that come before 23 us, and after we've heard the evidence, we vote the way 24 that we feel is necessary, but no vote that we will do will 25 shut this plant down or keep it going. We will either vote GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 32 1 to allow the conditional use or not allow the conditional 2 use, or not hear it or hear it, but this body is not in the 3 power -- it never has had the power and never will have the 4 power to shut anybody down. 5 KATHLEEN DOSS: So who has that authority 6 then? 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Not us. 8 KATHLEEN DOSS: Does anybody? 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I would assume that someone 10 does, but tonight is not the time to be coming before us 11 and asking us to not hear something or to shut a place 12 down, because that's not what we are empowered to do. • 13 Okay? 14 KATHLEEN DOSS: I just wanted to let you all 15 know that -- my dismay in finding that they were still in 16 operation after four years, even though they were not, as I 17 understand it, legal. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. 19 KATHLEEN DOSS: I had a question about -- I 20 have a real hard time in allowing their counsel to define 21 the conditional use. Did you all discuss that and is what 22 he presented tonight as a conditional use what you all have 23 accepted as a conditional use? Each paragraph that he 24 wrote when he said, "I came up with," "I wrote"? 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You know, counsel has the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 33 1 right to present to this body anything that they want to. 2 Now, we have the right to either agree with that or dis- 3 agree with that, but just because they have proposed it 4 doesn't mean that we are accepting their definition of it. 5 KATHLEEN DOSS: So you all will discuss 6 that? 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You've heard -- that's why 8 I've asked for public comment on the issue as to whether or 9 not we are even empowered to hear this decision tonight. 10 KATHLEEN DOSS: Okay. I just wanted to make 11 sure that he wasn't writing them all and you all voted yes 12 or no. I just wanted to make sure that you all would have 13 some input on that. 14 Was anything changed in Conditional Use 15 Number 3 about the 5,000 milligrams -liter, whatever that 16 is, of sewage being put into our sewage system when the 17 average is 300 milligrams per liter, and that they would 18 have 30 to 60 days? Is that still the same to come up with 19 some kind of engineering plan? 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, the original condition 21 of approval is that all waste water from the facility shall 22 meet OMI's requirements for pretreatment or pay surcharges. 23 Let me turn real quick to their proposal. 24 KATHLEEN DOSS: I'm not familiar with -- 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: It's the same. "All waste GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 34 1 water from the facility shall meet OMI's requirements for 2 pretreatment or surcharges shall be paid." 3 KATHLEEN DOSS: I'm sorry. I didn't hear 4 that. 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: "All waste water from the 6 facility shall meet OMI's requirements for pretreatment or 7 surcharges shall be paid." 8 KATHLEEN DOSS: I assume that's normal 9 practice to allow a facility to pay a surcharge every month 10 instead of pretreating their sewage? 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think you'll have to ask 12 staff that question. • 13 MS. LITTLE: I'm sorry. We were discussing 14 the condition and we didn't hear the question. I apologize 15 for that. Would you repeat it. 16 KATHLEEN DOSS: Is it normal practice to 17 allow a facility to pay a surcharge instead of pretreating 18 the sewage? 19 MS. LITTLE: I really don't want to speak 20 for OMI, who are the people that operate our sewage treat - 21 ment plant, but they have looked into it and they do have a 22 program when an industry uses more than an average amount 23 and has to discharge into the system more than an average 24 amount, they charge them a proportionate share. That's 25 really about all the information I can give you on that. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 35 1 So if the question is, "Is it a normal practice?" I have to 2 say yes, I think it is a normal practice, but I can't give 3 you any of the details on it. 4 KATHLEEN DOSS: So they have determined that 5 the $3,000.00 would be enough to cover that amount that 6 they're -- 7 MS. LITTLE: We have a subsequent letter on 8 that. It's not quite $3,000.00. It's $2,000.00 -plus that 9 they have reviewed, and I believe that that is their find - 10 ing at this point. That's really outside of something that 11 the planning commission would deal with. That is a regula- 12 tion having to do with the sewage treatment plant, and they • 13 do have the authority to charge that -- to charge whatever 14 rate they feel is appropriate for whatever is being dis- 15 charged. 16 KATHLEEN DOSS: And on Condition Number 7 17 and 7a, it talks about trailers and it doesn't include 18 railcars at all, and my experience with the Department of 19 Pollution Control and Ecology is that they have never 20 really pinpointed the source of the dust and the stuff that 21 accumulates on the houses and cars and that part of that, 22 according to their area inspector, may be coming from the 23 grain middling that they bring in on the railcars and, of 24 course, those aren't covered. 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Would you say that again? • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 36 1 The what? 2 KATHLEEN DOSS: Grain middling. Little fine 3 flakes. I assume it's the seed coat of the grain, whatever 4 grain that may be, and that's what they mix with their 5 dried up taco shells or pizza dough or what -have -you, and 6 then they ship it back out mixed together, and that med- 7 dling is what may be getting on the cars and the houses, 8 and so that comes in on railcars and that's not included in 9 these conditions at all, and not addressed as far as I 10 know, and that may or may not be a source of pollution and 11 possibly inhalation if you're that close to where you could 12 inhale some of that. I just wanted to point that out that • 13 that doesn't cover railcars at all, and I'd really like you 14 to talk about, when you get down to Number 11, the defini- 15 tion of "rendering," and not let that slip by, if possible. 16 Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Ms. Doss, Would 18 any other members of the audience like to address us on 19 this issue? 20 TERRY EASTIN: Good evening members of the 21 planning commission. My name is Terry Eastin and I'm a new 22 resident to Fayetteville. 2033 South Ashwood is my ad - 23 dress. I moved into this situation in the heat of the 24 battle it seems and I'd rather be standing here than sit - 25 ting where any of you are sitting right now. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 37 1 I have written each of you a letter that has 2 really outlined my point in terms of community economics 3 and development. We are looking at an area of the city 4 that can become an anchor for the whole southern side of 5 Fayetteville. We are looking at an area that's got promise 6 beyond belief from an economic standpoint for the city's 7 tax base. If an organization like Bakery Feeds is permit - 8 ted to continue operating as it is and is granted this 9 conditional use permit, it's going to be economically 10 hurtful to the southern side of the city, which is the side 11 of the city that really needs an economic boost now. I 12 have learned in my short time here that all city movement • 13 is going eastward. That property values are going up east - 14 ward. There is no reason why Razorback Road and that 15 extension can't become a viable anchor for Southern 16 Fayetteville and help bring those property values up as 17 well. Let me take that back. There is one reason. Bakery 18 Feeds is the reason. 19 Now, in their Condition 8 that their attor- 20 ney was talking about earlier, he talked about good house - 21 keeping practices. What body or who is to determine wheth- 22 er or not Bakery Feeds is actually going to use good house - 23 keeping practices? 24 In Issue Number 2, Bakery Feeds discussed 25 the seven -day -a -week, 24-hour operation. If this facility GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 38 1 had come in to Fayetteville with any desire to be a good 2 neighbor to the residential areas that surround it, why 3 would they ever establish 24 -hour -a -day, seven -day -a -week 4 contracts? They talk about limiting the hours to 120 as a 5 compromise. If their wish is to install new equipment to 6 reduce the number of hours that they themselves have to 7 operate, this isn't a concession. They're putting in the 8 new equipment to reduce the man-hours. To reduce their 9 production time and increase their profits. This isn't a 10 concession to you as a planning commission. It's merely an 11 avenue to get around the real issue whether Bakery Feeds 12 needs to be in this zone or not, and I -- I'm here to tell • 13 you, both as a resident -- I've smelled it. I've looked at 14 it. I've seen the billowing smoke. Also as a developer, I 15 know the economic value of that area and I know that you 16 all as a planning commission are charged with helping the 17 economic condition of the entire city, and if you say yes 18 to this conditional use permit, you're not helping anyone 19 but Bakery Feeds. Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Ms. Eastin. 21 Ladies and gentlemen, I know it's hard when someone gets up 22 and gives a good speech not to clap, but I would like to 23 remind you that we're not at Bud Walton Arena and it's not 24 proper to clap in a public forum such as this. I know it's 25 difficult not to at times, but I would ask that you please GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 39 1 hold your applause. 2 Would any other member of the audience like 3 to come forward at this time? Seeing none, I'll close the 4 floor to public discussion and bring it back to the appli- 5 cant for questions and comments and discussions before the 6 planning commission. 7 KEVIN MURPHY: Comments, and brief. I'd 8 like you to hear this. 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Speak up just a little bit, 10 Mr. Murphy. 11 KEVIN MURPHY: This is what came from Penn - 12 sylvania. "Bakery Feeds, Inc. is being recognized for . 13 their waste prevention innovative technology with a 1997 14 Green Business Award. The company recycles excess wet and 15 dry bakery goods into feed. They utilize 94 percent of 16 their incoming material as either salable product or energy 17 used in their process. The company is committed to waste 18 minimization through their innovative and proprietary 19 process, and are seeking ways to recycle 100 percent of 20 their incoming material." 21 Now, if you have any question about what we 22 do in terms of meeting that definition, Mr. Reagor can 23 expound upon it and, in fact, he made some notes. But, 24 again, I harken back to what occurred here. We started 25 this process of the stack and the dryer and we were asked GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 40 1 to voluntarily stop, even though we thought that we were 2 permitted to do so under the existing zone. When we volun- 3 tarily stopped, Mr. McCord and Ms. Little got together to 4 see what would be the appropriate step, and we were told, 5 and we agreed with both, that the appropriate step was to 6 go into this conditional use as a recycler. What we do is 7 we recycle these products. What comes in and what goes out 8 is less and this again -- this is not me. This is the 9 Chamber of Commerce in Pennsylvania with substantially the 10 same plant. Mr. Schaper does not understand our business 11 in its entirety and this is proof of just that, that the 12 Chamber of Commerce in Chester County gave us this award as • 13 a recycler and, again, we looked to the city, sought ad - 14 vice, and that's why we're here. 15 The dust argument is not a valid one at all. 16 You were at the site. We are not the only business in that 17 community. I would ask you to consider that as well. 18 Bill, do you have any comments? 19 BILL REAGOR: On Ms. Doss' comments about 20 the railcars and when we're unloading the railcars. In the 21 meeting we had October 28th with the Arkansas Pollution 22 Control Board and the citizens, it was brought to our 23 attention about the noise of unloading railcars in the 24 evening. We ceased doing that. Also, at that time, Arkan- 25 sas Pollution Commission asked us if we had a problem GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 41 1 incorporating into our air permit of putting up curtains 2 where we do handle railcars. We agreed at that meeting to 3 do that. In fact, we put those curtains up shortly after 4 that meeting. So the railcar issue has been dealt with al - 5 ready, and there are curtains in place. I think you toured 6 the facility recently and maybe saw them and maybe didn't, 7 but they are in place, and they were placed based upon com- 8 ments by the citizens to us and the Arkansas Pollution 9 Control, 10 I think Kevin has touched on the recycling 11 issue. In any of our meetings basically it alluded back to 12 where Mr. McCord and Ms. Little sat together and tried to • 13 -- what is the best remedy, trying to seek some common 14 ground, and that's where the recycling came forth. If 15 there is any other question about recycling, I'll try to 16 answer it. 17 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Any questions by the plan - 18 ning commissioners? 19 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr, Chairman? 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Estes, you have the 21 floor. 22 COMMISSIONER ESTES: I have comments and 23 questions for the applicant. Because it appears that our 24 threshold issue will be to determine whether Bakery Feeds 25 is operating a center for collecting recyclable materials GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 42 or is a manufacturing facility, let me speak to that. It seems to me that that's determinative in our deliberations. If we find that you are a center for recycling materials, then we can move through the conditions of approval. If you are not and are a manufacturing facility, then it seems to me that's determinative as to the conditional use re- quest. As an analogy, a recycling facility to me would be, for example, a facility that receives aluminum cans, crush- es those cans, cubes them and sells them back out as alumi- num. In other words, if the finished product that leaves is substantially the same as the received product, to me, that would mean a -- you were operating as a center for collecting recyclable materials. In your situation, you tell us you convert inedible grain -based bakery products and that you convert those into a feed supplement for the poultry and swine industry. What I am troubled by and the difficulty that I am having is that the finished product, by your own definition, is a feed supplement for the poul- try and swine industry. You're receiving product as in- edible grain -based bakery products. Can you help me in that regard? BILL REAGOR: I'll try to. Basically the products we receive, these grain -based products from food manufacturing, are energy sources. They're calories. What we're doing is we're taking in calories. From them -- we GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 1 are taking them into our facility, removing the moisture 2 and drying it, and when we talk about this feed ingredient 3 or feed supplement, it's a feed ingredient that we're 4 selling back to the poultry and swine industry. What we're 5 selling back to them is calories. It is an energy source. 6 So we have an energy source in and we have an energy source 7 out, and in conjunction with that, when you talk about 8 recycling, usually in a recycling -- there was an analogy 9 made here about having the bins to put your paper in and so 10 forth. We go to these facilities, these bakeries, and we 11 put in specialized equipment to collect it specifically to 12 load onto our trailers and bring to our facility. So there • 13 are many correlations that you can make to that, and the 14 bottom line is, we have energy materials coming in, calo- 15 ries, and we're shipping calories out. 16 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Another question I have 17 is you have cited us to a Kentucky facility and to a Penn - 18 sylvania facility. In either one of those was the issue of 19 being operating as a center for collecting recyclables or 20 being a manufacturing facility a similar issue? Was that 21 an issue before whatever governmental or municipal body you 22 were before? 23 BOB REAGOR: No. 24 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Is it fair to say that 25 the material that you have cited us to was authored by GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 44 n L_j 1 someone and they chose to use the word "recycle" and you 2 have now quoted or cited that back to us? 3 BOB REAGOR: Well, if you look at our equip - 4 ment and -- it's the same. We have our equipment -- we 5 consider ourselves a recycler from the get -go. Our bro- 6 chures. Anything that evolves around Bakery Feeds -- you 7 see our trucks going down the road. The recycling symbol 8 is on those trucks. So we have embraced that we are 9 recyclers because if this material at the bakeries was not 10 coming to us, you'd have the issue of going to landfills 11 and some of those things. So, yes, we consider ourselves a 12 recycler from the get -go. • 13 JIM McCORD: Commissioner Estes, your ques- 14 tion is well taken. I guess my response would be is that 15 Bakery Feeds doesn't produce anything. It reduces. It 16 takes a product in, removes the moisture, grinds it, makes 17 a finer product out of it that it then distributes to the 18 swine and chicken industry. It is -- the same product 19 comes in. It's without moisture and it's ground up. 20 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. McCord, in all 21 fairness, that response causes me more concern than I had 22 before, and let me explain what I mean. In the analogy I 23 used before regarding the aluminum cans that are crushed, 24 cubed, and sold out as aluminum cans, I suppose someone 25 could say that the received product was aluminum and the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 45 1 finished product was aluminum. Presume with me for a 2 minute that that facility is a foundry and that from that 3 aluminum comes wheels for cars. 4 JIM McCORD: Then you're producing some - 5 thing. 6 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Well, then, could it 7 not be said that the receiving product is aluminum and the 8 finished product is also aluminum? 9 JIM McCORD: With all due respect, that 10 would be a manufacturing process. You're manufacturing 11 wheels out of aluminum. They don't manufacture anything. 12 They reduce the incoming product. • 13 BILL REAGOR: Maybe the best would be if we 14 took our finished product, which is a feed ingredient, and 15 then we manufactured a finished feed, a complete feed. 16 Certainly we would be a manufacturer then. Do you under - 17 stand my distinction? 18 COMMISSIONER ESTES: No, I don't, because I 19 think what you're telling me is your receiving product is 20 calories and your finished product is calories. Is that 21 right? 22 BILL REAGOR: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER ESTES: But yet the receiving 24 product is, by your definition, inedible grain -based bakery 25 products, and your finished product is poultry and swine GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 46 1 food. 2 BILL REAGOR: Ingredient, Ingredient. 3 We've made this distinction many times. What we have is a 4 feed ingredient that we produce. It is not a finished 5 feed. We need to be very clear on that. We take in the 6 calories, if you will, the raw material, and we produce a 7 feed ingredient which is then shipped to familiar poultry 8 operations in the community here where they combine our 9 feed ingredient with other feed ingredients to manufacture 10 a finished feed. 11 COMMISSIONER ESTES: What is the material 12 that is brought into your facility on the railcars? • 13 BILL REAGOR: What we have coming into our 14 facility on railcars is what we call "blending stock." 15 That's where we add back to our material for a flowability 16 agent, if you will. It helps with the flow. 17 COMMISSIONER ESTES: And is it used in this 18 production process? 19 BILL REAGOR: It's added to our material 20 after we've gone through the drying process. It has moth- 21 ing to do in the drying process. 22 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Well, you have used the 23 word produced, not me, and so I'm now asking, is the mate - 24 rial that comes in on the railcar, is it used to produce 25 the poultry and swine food? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 47 1 BILL REAGOR: It is a material that comes in 2 and in its current state it is added to our bakery material 3 that we've dried and that is shipped to the feed industry. 4 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Is that not a manufac- 5 turing process? 6 BILL REAGOR: No, I wouldn't think so. When 7 I think of manufacturing is you are combining multiple 8 things to come up and change the entire identity of a 9 product, i.e., in your example where you have aluminum 10 wheels. You took in certain aluminum, reduced it to an 11 ingot. Then you took it and stamped it. Then you've pro - 12 duced a wheel. • 13 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Well, simply stated -- 14 and I don't want to be argumentative, but I do want to try 15 to clear this up in my mind alone. 16 BILL REAGOR: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Is that the receiving 18 product is this inedible grain -based bakery products; cor- 19 rect? 20 BILL REAGOR: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Then you do something 22 to that? Is that right? 23 BILL REAGOR: We remove the water and grind 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Then something comes in GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 48 1 on railcars and you add that to it, is that correct? 2 BILL REAGOR: We take the blending stock and 3 add to that for flowability. 4 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Then the finished 5 product becomes poultry and swine food; is that right? 6 BILL REAGOR: Not poultry and swine food. 7 It becomes a feed ingredient that is used in the poultry 8 and swine industry. 9 COMMISSIONER ESTES: So the receiving prod - 10 uct leaves in a substantially different condition than it 11 arrived; is that fair? 12 BILL REAGOR: No, because the way -- when • 13 that product comes in, it has moisture in it, and what we 14 do is we remove the moisture and grind it to get consistent 15 particle size. 16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: May I ask just one 17 clarification? What were those ingredients again, off the 18 railcars? 19 BILL REAGOR: Basically what you're looking 20 at is sometimes we're using grain products. Corn 21 screenings. 22 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Say again. 23 BILL REAGOR: Corn screenings. 24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. 25 BILL REAGOR: A flow agent, if you will. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 49 1 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Forney? 2 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman, I'm 3 going to make a motion and want to tailor it to the specif- 4 is question on the floor. It seems that our first duty is 5 to make a finding of fact about how we are going to classi- 6 fy this facility. I'm convinced by the presentation to - 7 night through the questions that this does not qualify as a 8 center for collecting recyclable materials but rather it's 9 probably better suited to be classified as a Unit 23, which 10 consists of uses which cause the greatest adverse environ - 11 mental effects because of odor, noise, unsightliness, air 12 pollution and explosions, which includes uses including the • 13 production of or the manufacture of food and allied prod - 14 ucts, I believe this is an allied product and therefore 15 would move that we find that this is not, in fact, a center 16 for collecting recyclable materials as described in Unit 17 28, 18 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion and a 20 second on the floor for the planning commission to make a 21 specific finding that this is not a recycling use -- not a 22 use under Unit 28, which is for a center for collecting 23 recyclable materials, and is rather a Unit 23, heavy indus- 24 trial use. Is there any further discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, Mr, Chairman. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 50 1 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Johnson, 2 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have the same 3 concerns that Commissioner Forney has but I also looked at 4 Section 162.02, which has to do with interpretation, and in 5 Subparagraph B I find this language: "In any case where 6 there is a question as to whether or not a particular use 7 is included in a particular use unit, the city planner 8 shall decide." So it appears to me that this issue is one 9 that the city planner is to determine. So my question then 10 is to Alett as to what her decision is about that, because 11 I believe that we can't usurp the authority of staff. 12 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner, before you can • 13 go on with that further, I think that it would be important 14 to note that whatever the decision of the city planner is, 15 to my understanding, is not appealable to this body, but 16 is, instead, appealable only to the board of adjustments. 17 MS. LITTLE: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, but it would 19 seem to me that this body must be responsive and concur 20 with the city planner's determination. 21 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I don't think we have a 22 choice. That's what I'm saying. 23 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, it seemed to me 24 that the motion flies in the face of this ordinance. 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 51 1 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I would be interested 2 in what Alett says. 3 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, with that -- go 4 ahead. 5 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yeah. I want to say 6 that I concur with Commissioner Johnson's reading of the 7 ordinance. That's what I had understood from previous 8 planning commission research. However, I thought I just 9 heard the city attorney say that it is now the planning 10 commission's decision, and I sense that what we have here 11 is pretty much of a largely inflatable political football. 12 So I am unsure if anybody is going to be the final word in • 13 this until it is voted up or down in some manner. 14 MS. LITTLE: I don't know if I can help. I 15 may be doing what Jerry Rose said earlier. I may not be 16 shortening the meeting. Let me try and help. 17 (A member of the audience said, "Excuse me, Mr. Odom, 18 Could you ask everybody to speak up just a little, 19 please?") 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. We're having a hard 21 time for people hearing in the back. So let's all speak 22 up. 23 MS. LITTLE: All right. How is this? 24 (A member of the audience said, "Much better.") 25 MS. LITTLE: For Use Unit 23, which is heavy • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 52 1 industrial, it says, "Unit 23 consists of uses which cause 2 the greatest adverse environmental effects because of odor, 3 noise, unsightliness, air pollution and explosives." Under 4 Use Unit 23 is listed food and allied products as an in - 5 cluded use. Therefore, I cannot interpret food and allied 6 products to be in any other use unit other than Use Unit 7 23, because it is specifically listed there. When this 8 question came up, my response was, the only way that this 9 facility can be allowed in I-1 is if it is a center for 10 collecting recyclable materials, Use Unit 28. Therefore, 11 they have come to ask if they may be allowed in I-1 as a 12 center for collecting recyclable materials. It's my duty, • 13 it's my responsibility, and as Commissioner Johnson pointed 14 out, I have the distinct authority to make determinations 15 as to what is in what use unit. I have to do that. The 16 decision before you tonight is not exactly that. The 17 decision before you tonight is whether to allow this condi- 18 tional use, and if allowing that conditional use you're 19 empowered to do that, and that goes over to your section 20 under conditional uses, which is under B for "Conditions 21 governing application of conditional uses, procedures. The 22 planning commission shall make a finding that it is empow- 23 ered under the section of this chapter described in the 24 application to grant the conditional use, and that the 25 granting of the conditional use will not adversely affect GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 53 • 1 the public interest." So you all have to make the finding 2 as to whether you agree or disagree that this is a center 3 for collecting recyclable materials. My responsibility is 4 to tell you that centers for recycling materials are Use 5 Unit 28 and that that may be allowed as a conditional use 6 under I-1. So that's the distinction and it's a little 7 murky but that is how I see it. 8 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman? 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Forney. 10 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: I realize that Ms. 11 Little is probably using a slightly different binder than I 12 am. I'm trying to find where she was just quoting from. • 13 JERRY ROSE: That's 163.02. 14 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Thank you. 15 JIM McCORD: One closing comment and I'll 16 let you all vote and vote as you see fit. Based upon the 17 advice you've received from the city attorney and the 18 director, both of which I agree. I think the city attorney 19 will agree with me there are numerous Arkansas Supreme 20 Court cases in the state showing the ordinances are in 21 derogation of the common law and deprive property owners of 22 rights they would otherwise have. Therefore, zoning ordi- 23 nances are to be construed in favor of the property owner. 24 In this case, the issue before you apparently is: Is this 25 a recycling facility or not? Under those Supreme Court • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 54 1 cases, the property owner is to get the benefit of the 2 doubt. If I've misspoken, the city attorney can correct 3 me, but having said that, we'd like a decision one way or 4 the other. 5 KEVIN MURPHY: One last comment from me and 6 I'll sit down. I would just like all of you to consider 7 one thing. When we went with this program, we were under 8 the belief that we were legal with where we were, because 9 it wasn't an enlargement of an existing business. We were 10 asked to voluntarily shut down the operation, and even 11 though we felt we were in the right, we did. Then we re - 12 ceived the advice that it's a conditional use application • 13 for a recycler. We have it on our trucks. We have it in 14 our literature, and that's precisely what we do. We did 15 everything that we were told to do, and the target is mov- 16 ing. And item last is, the motion for the conditional use, 17 as I understand it, and I hope I'm not incorrect, the box 18 was checked to approve it from the city planner, with 19 conditions. So if Ms. Johnson is correct, the advice of 20 the city planner prior to tonight, the box was checked 21 approved. I would end by saying that I believe that we are 22 entitled to this conditional use permit without conditions, 23 but with that said, I've drafted eleven of them, and I 24 would ask the commission to grant our conditional use 25 permit with those conditions, and I thank all of you, GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I \ U including Mr. Rose and Mr. Venable for their time. Thank you. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, Commissioner Estes. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Before we vote, I would I like to have the motion restated. COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Well, there is some question in my mind as to whether the motion should be voted upon. I appreciate Ms. Little's presentation but I'm still a little bit unclear. I'm trying to bone up on the section that she quoted, but the motion was that we make a finding that the applied -for conditional use is asking for a designation of the Use Unit Number 28 and that we find that this is not in fact a use that is covered by Use Unit 28 and that, rather, Use Unit 23 is a more suitable use unit. Now, having said that, I understand Ms. Johnson -- or Commissioner Johnson's argument. I am not quite sure I understand Ms. Little's argument. I think I need help from better legal minds probably here. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, don't look here. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I don't qualify as a better legal mind, but what I thought I heard Alett saying was that she did the initial categorizing and put this in Use Unit 28, but that she does not feel that she is to make the decision as to whether it really complies with GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 56 1 the requirements of Use Unit 28. 2 MS. LITTLE: Not exactly. 3 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay, 4 MS. LITTLE: I think that the only way that 5 they can be legal in I-1 is if they are classified as a 6 center for recycling materials. When it comes down to 7 granting that conditional use, you and only you can make 8 the decision that's required, the finding that's required, 9 and you have to make a finding. You're required to make a 10 finding. You are empowered to grant the conditional use, 11 Number 1, and that the granting of the conditional use will 12 not adversely affect the public interest. So if you're not . 13 convinced that it's a center for collecting recyclable 14 material, I think you have to seriously question whether 15 you can make that finding or not, and that's the decision 16 that's before you. 17 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman? 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Forney. 19 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: As I read that sec - 20 tion, Section 3(a), under Chapter 163.02 -- 21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: On what page? 22 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: It's on Page 50 under 23 Binder Number 2, but the second Number 2 in our binder. 24 "The planning commission shall make the following written 25 findings before a conditional use shall be issued: (a) GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 57 1 That it is empowered under the section of the chapter 2 described in the application to grant the conditional use." 3 So as I read that, and as I think I understand Ms. Little's 4 clarification, we must make a finding that in fact this is 5 an allowable conditional use in this zoning and the ratio - 6 nale for my objection to that -- and I guess I should 7 clarify this further -- I've now lost my page elsewhere, 8 but that -- under I-1, the permittable uses are ones that 9 are not environmentally objectionable, and I think we have, 10 both in our visits and in testimony, found evidence that in 11 fact this use is at least now objectionable, and we hope 12 that it would not be in the future but we have no ability 13 to make that judgment that it is not, and so it seems to 14 me, again, that that is one further justification for 15 finding that this designation, Use Unit 28, cannot be 16 supported for conditional use in this I-1 zone. 17 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Mr. Chairman? 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Hoffman. 19 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I have one more point 20 to bring up. If the commission finds that this is, indeed, 21 not the appropriate use, it has been stated that Bakery 22 Feeds will continue to operate as they do presently. It 23 would be my assumption that as the process is carried 24 forward, that there would be additional findings of fact 25 that would need to be made by somebody. That would include GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 58 I to me, I would think, the hours of operation would again 2 come into question, as would the method of odor reduction. 3 I just wanted to state that that this vote is not the end. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You're concerned we won't 5 get to those issues should the motion pass? 6 COMMISSIONER KOFFMAN: Yeah. Uh-huh. 7 COMMISSIONER WARD: Mr. Chairman? 8 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Ward. 9 COMMISSIONER WARD: After kind of sitting 10 and looking at all this and also going out there viewing 11 the facility last Thursday, I mean -- first of all, I 12 believe they have a right to continue using the facility as • 13 it is right now, which is not a really good remedy. The 14 next thing is, I personally feel that, you know -- I think 15 it's a recycling center, just from what I saw, and that, 16 you know, I wish it maybe wasn't right there, but it's 17 already there. They do provide a service. They provide 18 jobs for our area. You know, I feel like that the stack 19 would be a -- probably an improvement and hope that it will 20 be a remedy for the problems out there and I'd like to see 21 something change that's not there now and I think with all 22 the money they're willing to spend out there -- you know, I 23 feel like that that's a much better way of approving it 24 than not doing anything and leaving as -is. So it's kind of 25 a Catch-22. I really feel like we're dealing an injustice GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r1 LJ to the community and the citizens out there by not approv- ing it. To me, it's crazy. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Johnson. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have a question of staff and that is what happens to the facility and its operations if this motion does pass? That is, can it continue to operate? MS. LITTLE: I think we have to do some more work on that particular issue, and I don't want to answer that question, but I can tell you that there are a number of ways that compliance can be effected, and one of those is for the city to pursue remedies through the city prose- cutor. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Remedies of what kinds - - CHAIRMAN ODOM: Again, we need to speak up because the applicant and members of the audience cannot hear. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Remedies of what I kinds of breaches? MS. LITTLE: Well, any time there is a zoning violation, this is a process that you go through. There are additional findings. There is additional infor- mation that occurs, and if there is sufficient evidence GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 60 that there is not any violations, then it goes to the city prosecutor. That's just the normal process. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: So you're saying that if we pass this motion, then we have said that they have committed a zoning violation and then it goes to the city prosecutor? MS. LITTLE: Not necessarily. I think that the staff is the one that has to initiate it to the city prosecutor and possibly the city attorney. If you want to make a motion that the staff pursue that, then I would say that would be the next step, but I don't say that just because you turn down the conditional use means that this immediately goes to the city prosecutor. I don't think that's the process. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Tucker? COMMISSIONER TUCKER: I'll withdraw. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. I have one final comment. I believe that this is a center for collecting recyclable materials. However, I have concern, because I think it takes it one step farther, and I think that that's certainly a question, and it's a question that's not really answered clearly in my mind, whether or not this is a pro- ducer or a manufacturer of a recyclable product. However, I believe that the applicant is correct that any ambiguity in the -- that we have in our regulation must go in favor GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 L 1 of the applicant, and so for that reason, even with the 2 concern that I have, I'm going to vote against the motion 3 that is on the table. Is there any further discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER WARD: Call the roll. 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Let's call the roll. 6 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 7 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. 8 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 9 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes, 10 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 11 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes, 12 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: No, 14 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 15 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 16 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 17 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: No. 18 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 19 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes, 20 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? 21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. 22 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 23 COMMISSIONER WARD: No. 24 CHAIRMAN ODOM: The motion carries on a vote 25 of 5 to 4. I don't believe at this point that we can go GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 62 n u I forward with further findings or consideration for the 2 conditions of approval. Am I correct? 3 MS. LITTLE: I would agree. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Applicant, do you have 5 anything you would like to add? 6 KEVIN MURPHY: Pardon me, air? 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Do you have anything that 8 you would like to add? I don't think that we can go for - 9 ward with any further consideration for the conditions of 10 approval. 11 KEVIN MURPHY: I would just like a clarifi- 12 cation because there was so much discussion. The motion • 13 was to turn us down because we were not a recycler? Is 14 that -- 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: No. The motion was to find 16 that we are not empowered to give consideration for the 17 conditions of approval. Specifically because this is not a 18 proper Use Unit 28, center for collecting recyclable mate - 19 rials, and in particular it's a Use Unit 23. 20 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: And that will require 21 a rezoning? 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: And that would require a 23 rezoning. 24 KEVIN MURPHY: My only comment to that was 25 what was submitted to you by the city staff today said just GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 63 • 1 the opposite. It said the planning commission is empowered 2 to vote for this conditional use. That's right in your 3 packet. So I -- you voted. I'm not going to take your 4 time, but I don't understand that because it was right in 5 the packet that says that you are, in fact, empowered. So 6 tonight, for the first time, you're not. I'm not going to 7 say that you need to explain it to me, Mr. Odom. I under - 8 stand that. 9 The only other thing I'll say is I just 10 thank you for all the time that you put into this and I 11 thank the city staff and Mr. Rose, and I'm disappointed but 12 I thank you anyway. Thank you. • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Murphy, 14 JIM McCORD: Just two comments and we'll let 15 you proceed with your other business. One, I think, for 16 the record, Bakery Feeds considers this as a denial of its 17 conditional use permit application. I don't know how it 18 can be considered anything else, but because of what the 19 law requires, we consider it a denial. 20 Secondly, Bakery Feeds also considers its 21 existing facility a lawful non -conforming unit. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. McCord. 23 The next thing we have on tonight's agenda 24 is listed under new business which is Item Number 6. That 25 was submitted by Thomas Hopper -- ladies and gentlemen, GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 64 n L-A 1 please discuss issues outside. Thank you. We're going to 2 be here quite a bit longer. 3 This rezoning, 99-1.00, was submitted by Tom 4 Hopper on behalf of Crafton, Tull and Associates on behalf 5 of Lindsey Management Company for property located north of 6 the Washington County Fairgrounds and east of Highway 71 7 bypass. The property is zoned A-1, agricultural, and 8 contains approximately 22.3 acres. The request is to 9 rezone the property to R-2, medium density residential. 10 The recommendation of the staff is for rezoning the proper - 11 ty from A-1 to R-2 with the inclusion that the applicant be 12 advised that the City of Fayetteville's future plans to 13 develop -- or to develop Township Street on this property's 14 southern boundary and that the City of Fayetteville's 15 sewage facilities may be subject to a moratorium in the 16 near future. At this time I'll bring it forward to the 17 applicant for presentation. 18 MR. VINSON: Mr. Chairman, I need to say one 19 thing. 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Go ahead. Staff? 21 MR. VINSON: The map that I've just passed 22 out, I just need to clarify that the development of Town - 23 ship on the southern border was not on the southern border 24 of this property as stated before. 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Hang on one second. It • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 65 • 1 looks like we have everybody in here. So if I could please 2 ask you to come to order so that we can go ahead and pro - 3 ceed. Thank you. Staff, do you want to go ahead with your 4 comments? 5 MR. VINSON: Yes, air. I needed to clarify 6 that Township is not proposed to be on the southern border 7 of this property as was stated before. That the fair - 8 grounds are between this property and the proposal for 9 Township in the future in the 2020 master plan, and that's 10 what this map shows. 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: So Township is not a consid- 12 eration for this rezoning request? • 13 MR. VINSON: No, sir. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. 15 JIM LINDSEY: Mr. Chairman, ladies and 16 gentlemen of the planning commission, my name is Jim Lind - 17 sey and I would like to present this for your -all's consid- 18 eration. It's 22.3 acres. It's adjacent to the bypass. 19 It has the Agri Park around -- agri land on two sides, the 20 bypass on one side, and then Southwest Bell -- there's a 21 little tract of land, and then Southwest Bell's industrial 22 or, I guess you would say, their truck depot is out there. 23 What we would like to do is present this in a way 24 that -- we're talking about approximately 228 units in what 25 we're trying to do. As an R-2 zone there would be 535 GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 66 n 1 units allowed there. We're talking about 228 and we're 2 also talking about having for Arkansas Athletes Outreach, 3 if that's what they want to do with this, a place where 4 there would be room for an indoor basketball facility and 5 an outdoor athletic facility. Whether or not that has to 6 have a conditional use, I'm not sure in an R-2 but some 7 facilities that would end up being for them. That's total - 8 ly separate to our 228 units. We'd like to get the whole 9 property zoned R-2, but I'd just like to inform you that 10 that may come back to you at some point in time. 11 What our thought process is is that as you 12 go around Fayetteville and you look and you see and you try • 13 to find R-2 property, it's rare. It's hard to find. Maybe 14 justifiably so. This land is on the bypass. It is, in 15 fact, a very good, I think, transition zone. It's sur - 16 rounded by the university in most places and it's very 17 questionable if any of that land would ever be developed, 18 and it leaves it, for what we think anyway, as one of the 19 few potentially desirable R-2 tracts that does not impact 20 any neighborhood or group of people in a way that would 21 have a negative influence. That's our basic approach. 22 That's what we're trying to look for now when we look for 23 property, and to make that as an option. We're not build - 24 ing that much in Northwest Arkansas right now, but the 25 market has tightened up in Fayetteville. There will be a GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 67 • 1 need as the university grows and we just see this as a good 2 location, a good option for what we're attempting to do. 3 We look forward to doing it. The density will be way low, 4 below R-2. We don't even care if you designate the densi- 5 ty. We don't have a problem with that. We would just like 6 to use that location as a nice, moderately priced apartment 7 complex. It will not be tax credits. There are not going 8 to be any tax credits associated with it in any way. It 9 will just be a moderately priced apartment complex for the 10 people who service the community anywhere on the bypass, 11 for some students I would assume, but probably more so for 12 the community at large. That's where we're coming from and • 13 that's what we'd like to present to you. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Lindsey. 15 What I'll do now is open the floor to public discussion. 16 Would any member of the audience like to address us on this 17 proposed rezoning request? Seeing none, I'll close the 18 floor to public discussion and bring it back to the appli- 19 cant and to the planning commission for questions and 20 comments. 21 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Mr. Estes. 23 COMMISSIONER ESTES: I move that we approve 24 RZ 99-1.00, 25 COMMISSIONER WARD: Second. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 68 n LJ 1 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion and a 2 second to approve rezoning 99-1.00. Is there any discus - 3 sion? 4 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I just have a cues - 5 tion for staff. 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: At this point is it 8 proper to extend the right of way or increase the right of 9 way on McConnell to handle the additional traffic to be 10 generated by this project? 11 MS. LITTLE: No. We need to do that at the 12 development stage. . 13 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: That's fine. 14 MS. LITTLE: We need to do that when it 15 comes through our large scale development process. 16 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I just want to go on 17 the record as saying we'll look at that when that comes up 18 then. Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Any further discussion? 20 Will you call the roll? 21 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 22 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes. 23 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? 24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, 25 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 69 LJ 1 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes. 2 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 3 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes, 4 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 5 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 6 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 8 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 9 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes, 10 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 11 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes. 12 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 13 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Motion carries unanimously. 15 JIM LINDSEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. 17 The next item we have on tonight's agenda is 18 Item Number 7 under new business. Conditional Use 99-5.00 19 submitted by Marvin Light and Steve Faust for property 20 located south of Lakeview Drive and east of Lake Fayette - 21 ville Road. The property is zoned A-1, agricultural, and 22 contains approximately 0.985 acres. The request is for a 23 BMX bicycle track. The staff's recommendation is approval 24 of the request based upon the findings included as a part 25 of this report and subject to the planning commission • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 70 • 1 making the findings as required by 163.02 and the following 2 conditions. Item Number 1, that lighting and sound systems 3 are not to be used for the track. Any lighting or sound 4 system proposed in the future must be brought before the 5 planning commission. 6 Item Number 2, a screen of medium growing 7 shrubs, 6 to 8 feet tall, planted six feet on center will 8 be planted along the north side of the track at the expense 9 of the operators. The planting shall be coordinated with 10 the landscape administrator. 11 Item Number 3, upkeep and maintenance of the 12 track will be done to the satisfaction of the parks depart - 13 ment. 14 Item Number 4, a grading permit must be 15 issued before construction of the track can begin. 16 Item Number 5, an explanation, satisfactory 17 to the planning commission, for the 0.985 acre use area. 18 The explanation needs to include justification for why the 19 lease is not for one acre making the track subject to the 20 public, as opposed to staff only, for review. 21 Item Number 6, bleachers, an observation 22 stand and maintenance shed shall meet the approval of the 23 planning commission. 24 Staff, are there any further conditions of 25 approval? • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 71 • 1 MR. VINSON: I do have two supplements. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Let's hear it. 3 MR. VINSON: One of the observation stand 4 and then there is a BMX sponsorship or an interest peti- 5 tion. 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. What I'll do now 7 is bring it to the applicant and ask if you have any ques- 8 tions, comments, or would like to make a presentation with 9 regard to your proposal and/or the conditions of approval. 10 MARVIN LIGHT: With Number 1, I'd like to be 11 able to use a sound system -- 12 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You need to speak up just a . 13 little bit. 14 MARVIN LIGHT: On the Number 1, I'd like to 15 be able to use a sound system to announce the races and 16 such. It will apply to all the noise ordinances and all 17 that of Fayetteville. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. 19 MARVIN LIGHT: I talked to Jim Beavers 20 earlier this morning and he says I will not need a grading 21 permit to build the track. I spoke with him about the 22 grading and all that and he filled me in with all the 23 information I need to know. So if we do decide that we 24 need extra dirt, I can bring in up to 100 cubic yards of 25 dirt, if needed, but as of right now it still falls that I GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 72 1 don't need to use a grading permit. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. Would you like 3 to address Number 5? That's the explanation as to why this 4 is coming before us for 0.985 acres as opposed to one acre. 5 KIM ROGERS: I'm Kim Rogers with the Parks 6 and Recreation Division. The reason we went with this 7 acreage amount is just because of the dimensions of the 8 track. We were looking at a little bit more than an acre 9 and then we looked at half an acre and this is the amount 10 to make the track and also allow for any future bleachers 11 if that would -- when we come -- if they decide to come 12 through for bleachers. • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Kim. Any further 14 presentation? 15 MARVIN LIGHT: No. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. What I'll do now is 17 open the floor to public discussion and ask members of the 18 audience that would like to address us on this issue to 19 come forward. 20 JILL JACOWAY: Commissioners, my name is 21 Jill Jacoway and I live about a quarter of a mile from 22 where this property is going in. My residence address is 23 Springdale, Arkansas. I'd like to know where the opening 24 for this little area will be. Will it be off Lakeview 25 Drive, Lakeview Road, or Turner Street? • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 73 n LJ 1 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Staff, can you clarify 2 that question? 3 MR. VINSON: Yes. The entrance to the park 4 will be through Lake Fayetteville North. The entrance 5 would be from Highway 71 College, next to the baseball 6 fields. There is no access from this park or part of the 7 park to Turner or to Lakeview. 8 JILL JACOWAY: Okay. Right now there is a 9 gate that closes on that Lakeview Road at sunset. Will 10 that continue? Will that gate remain there? 11 MR. VINSON: I wasn't aware that the gate 12 ever opened. • 13 JILL JACOWAY: So it will remain closed? 14 MR. VINSON: I'll have to revert to Parks. 15 JILL JACOWAY: Yes, 16 RIM ROGERS: That gate will remain closed. 17 It was locked in the early 190s to deter undesirable activ- 18 ity, and the gate that I think that you may be talking 19 about is off of Lake Fayetteville Road. 20 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: If you would -- try to 21 speak into the microphone, please. 22 RIM ROGERS: Okay. By the boat dock? 23 JILL JACOWAY: Yes. 24 RIM ROGERS: That one will be closed on the 25 days that they will not be using it. They will be respon- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 74 • 1 sible for closing the gate afterwards. 2 JILL JACOWAY: So every day they will use 3 it, all the times they're using it, the gate will remain 4 open? 5 KIM ROGERS: Right, 6 JILL JACOWAY: All right. 7 KIM ROGERS: So there will not be access off 8 of Lakeview Drive. Just on Lake Fayetteville Road, 9 JILL JACOWAY: Okay. Where will the parking 10 be for this facility? Is that on that .9 acres? 11 MR. VINSON: There is a parking area. I'll 12 have to revert to Parks. • 13 KIM ROGERS: That is also already provided. 14 It's a graveled parking lot off of Lake Fayetteville Road. 15 If any additional parking would be needed, there is addi- 16 tional paved parking by the softball complex where they 17 will be entering, and also an additional 25 gravel spaces 18 west of there. 19 MS. LITTLE: That parking is not in the 20 0.985. It's separate. 21 KIM ROGERS: No, it is not. 22 JILL JACOWAY: All right. And the other 23 thing is just a plea to all of you that I think Mother 24 Nature did a wonderful job on the park that is currently 25 there and to try to improve by manmade means, I think, will GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 75 n 1 adversely affect the impact on the environment. I think 2 it's wonderful that all of these people will have a facili- 3 ty, but Fayetteville has plenty of other land, other than 4 right next to that lake, which it could use. It could use 5 the land that is also part of this same watershed protec- 6 tion area over by the United Way building without adversely 7 impacting the area near and right next to the lake. So I 8 would just ask that you move this someplace else. Thank 9 you. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Ms. Jacoway, 11 ANN HARRIS: I'm not sure what I'm supposed 12 to do up here. • 13 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Tell us what you think. 14 ANN HARRIS: All right. 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Tell us your name first. 16 ANN HARRIS: Okay. My name is Ann Harris. 17 I'm a Fayetteville resident. I was in the park on January 18 24th at approximately 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon. I was 19 by the gate of the nature center with my small dog, on a 20 leash, and noticed three deer came running through the park 21 right in front of me, and right after them were two bicy- 22 cles, and they were the kind that you use on trails, and I 23 was very dismayed at that, and at the time I didn't know 24 anything about this. I'm a middle school counselor and I 25 want nothing more than kids to have places to go, but the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 76 • 1 nature center is not the place for bicycles. Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Ms. Harris, 3 VANCE ARNOLD: I'm Vance Arnold. I'm a 4 teacher and coach at Fayetteville'High School and I live in 5 Springdale at 5110 Turner, right across from the proposed 6 facility. When we read the zoning request beside the road, 7 my neighbor and I. we both kind of got excited that some - 8 thing like this was going in. We believed by the descrip- 9 tion on the application or the road sign that it was going 10 to go by the softball fields, an already commercialized 11 area by Lokomotion, because it says "East of Lake Road and 12 south of Lakeview," and so to put it down there -- we later • 13 found out it was commercial land and it's very valuable by 14 the softball fields. So we thought that would be a great 15 place obviously since it's already into entertainment, 16 recreation, and things like that. Then we later found out 17 after we called the city planning that the park was in the 18 Lake Fayetteville area, off Lakeview and further back in 19 there, and the location as we understand now is -- because 20 of dirt and things like that, the necessity of the dirt and 21 moving the dirt and where it's located, we're concerned 22 about drainage and other things in Lake Fayetteville Park 23 in that area, and if I'm mistaken somebody correct me, 24 because I don't want to make anybody mad, but what we've 25 talked about is like when the facility is not used, and how i GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 77 n L 1 long the season is and I was going -- it's probably going 2 to be March to November and then this huge dirt area with - 3 out vegetation on a lot of it would be there and exposed to 4 the elements and it would be really hard for somebody to 5 come back out and maintain it when it's not being used. 6 I'm sure during the season it can be maintained for the 7 bikers and liability and things like that. The concern is 8 that this is going to be a mound of dirt pushed and it's 9 going to be exposed, and I believe some of the information 10 that we've read is that the starting ramp is like 15 feet 11 high. 12 MARVIN LIGHT: No. • 13 VANCE ARNOLD: Or 10 feet high. Somewhere 14 in that area. It would be over the vegetation or the 15 shrubbery and stuff, and it's in an area in front of some 16 people's houses. The Industrial Park would -- you know, if 17 we can get conditional use in the Industrial Park, it would 18 provide some of the same things these guys are looking for. 19 They're looking for rest rooms, which would not be includ- 20 ed. The parking lot nor the rest rooms is included in the 21 request on that less than an acre of land. If they needed 22 bathrooms and parking lots, it would be larger than an acre 23 and then they'd have to change how they're doing things, 24 which is -- but at the Babe Ruth fields, there are parking 25 lots. There are rest rooms. It's not busy during all that GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 78 n LJ 1 time. Sunday nights they don't play baseball, and there's 2 two strips of land that sits close to Marshalltown Tool, 3 the Distribution Center, on Pump Station Road, and 4 Armstrong Road that are mounded and hilly already. They're 5 not flat and down below the Combs Park and stuff, and 6 there's parking there at some of those industries that I 7 feel confident that Paul Penny owns, and some of the people 8 in the plant would offer on weekends for the kids to use 9 for trailers and bikes and things like that. So we're 10 concerned, you know, where it's located. 11 The nature of the park -- I saw the three 12 deer the other morning too. Floyd Watson and Hal Brown . 13 asked us not to tell anybody about the deer out there. 14 They didn't want the hunters showing up, but, you know, 15 just the nature that's there. There's not many places in 16 Fayetteville, or anywhere in Northwest Arkansas, where you 17 can turn off the highway and go about a quarter of a mile 18 and find the beauty and nature that's back there, the 19 foxes, the squirrels and rabbits and all the other things, 20 and it is used. I know it's a complaint of the city parks 21 that it's not used enough and things, but as fast as the 22 area is growing, you know, it's just a great facility for a 23 lot of people and kind of limit some of the things. So if 24 we can find a place, then I would be more than willing to 25 help work with this and help the people find a place to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 build and work and do some of the things to help them out, because I'm not against any sport. I coach baseball and softball and basketball and track, and anything the kids want to do, I try to do for them. So I'd be more than willing to help keep these things going instead of hinder- ing them. The choice is the main thing. Thank you. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Arnold. KIM ROGERS: I would like to clear up -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: I tell you what. Hold on one second. Let's stop applauding or we're going to be here forever, and parks board, I want to get all public comment and then we'll come back for clarification and so forth. KIM ROGERS: Okay. CHAIRMAN ODOM: That will make things run a little bit smoother. BRENDA THIEL: Well, I'm on the parks board. She's on the parks staff. Can I say something now or do you want me to wait also? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Why don't you go ahead since you were in line? BRENDA THIEL: Well, no. No, I can wait. If you want the positive at the end. CHAIRMAN ODOM: No. It doesn't matter. I don't want positive/negative, positive/negative. There are GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 80 • 1 going to be responses to the thing from the parks board as 2 well as the staff, and we typically do that at the end 3 after public comment. 4 CLAUDIA BAILEY: Good evening. My name is 5 Claudia Bailey. I am a Fayetteville citizen. I'm also a 6 professor of biology at the University of Arkansas. I 7 appreciate the opportunity to share some information with 8 you. I'm concerned very much for the welfare of our youth. 9 If I weren't, I would not be in education, and I share the 10 objectives of having resources for them and a multitude of 11 opportunities of activities. I am concerned, however, that 12 the proposal is contrary to 25 years of established usage 13 at Lake Fayetteville. Lake Fayetteville has an excellent 14 record as both a prime wildlife habitat and as an educa- 15 tional facility. As a wildlife habitat, Lake Fayetteville 16 attracts hundreds of visitors of all ages every year, and 17 from as far away as Canada and Central America, and they 18 delight in the natural setting, the water fowl, the mam- 19 mals, the plants, etcetera, and the facility itself has 20 ultimately proposed the botanical garden, and I think this 21 is going to be a landmark of forethought, good planning, 22 and will be a sensible use of this facility for genera - 23 tions. It will put Fayetteville on the map as being con - 24 cerned with the natural habitat and having this option 25 available for us in the city and within a few feet of the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 81 1 major transportation options. 2 Lake Fayetteville currently serves hundreds 3 of area high school students and college students every 4 year. At the U of A alone, nearly 2,000 students visit for 5 research and educational activities, both on the lake and 6 throughout the parks terrestrial areas. The faculty who 7 brings the students include people like Dr. Fred Spiegel, 8 Art Brown, Doug James, Linda Tichenor, Ed Dale, Johnnie 9 Gentry, Kim Smith, myself, all in the biology area, and Dr. 10 Steve Boss also of geology. I have friends who have scout 11 troops who bring their kids out there for both educational 12 and outdoor activities. The proposed usage of land at Lake 13 Fayetteville is non -consistent with the established prac- 14 tice. Why and why is this critical? This park is biologi- 15 tally and geologically sensitive. It is not something that 16 can be arbitrarily manipulated. The proposed usage will 17 have a drastic negative impact on the quality of the lake 18 and on the diversity of the organisms and wildlife. For 19 example, the lake of any area has a tendency to silt in. 20 Currently our lake at Lake Fayetteville is very pristine. 21 It has a high quality water. Fishermen know this and many 22 of you probably yourselves enjoy that aspect of Lake 23 Fayetteville. This has a great impact on the study of 24 water and water quality. I believe it's also an auxiliary 25 water source. So the quality of the water needs to be • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 V I LA maintained. When a lake silts in from airborne dust from erosion and from other types of pollutants, the lake ulti- mately dries up. Hence, all usage as a water environment will be eliminated. The inevitable pollution and noise will also drive off nesting water fowl, and the tires them- selves of the bikes that will, I'm sure, inevitably go more than just on the track, will cause erosion, etcetera. In turn, this will destroy the more fragile plant communities. I think that the established usage of Lake Fayetteville really needs to take precedence, and I would hope that the consideration here would be given for the large number of students that over a quarter of a century have made use of and will continue to make use of this facility. I strongly support options for young people but I think that there are, indeed, other places where such a facility could be placed. Thank you. DOUGLAS JAMES: I'm Douglas James from Fayetteville. I would like to just accentuate the need for keeping the area as a natural area without outside distur- bances because it is so well used by the university and the public schools, and you cannot keep squeezing a natural area into a smaller and smaller site without having an impact, even though you don't trespass directly on the area. Small areas experience selective extinction because of their small size, and disturbances in the vicinity just GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 83 i• • • 1 add to that problem. I've been teaching here for over 45 2 years and I visited the area when I first got here. In 3 fact, it was only built shortly before that time, and 4 flooded the farm of the head of the zoology department, to 5 which I belong. But back in those days, I could take my 6 classes on campus right where the biology building is now, 7 but when campus was developed, I went down to the area 8 south of the stadium facility, and you know what's there 9 now. Then I moved out to the place on properties where 71 10 and 62 meet, and, guess what? You know how developed that 11 is. I went to Markham Hill and Rester Mountain and things 12 changed there as well, and so the last place we have for 13 our university classes now is at Lake Fayetteville Environ - 14 mental Center, and I would like to see it maintained. 15 There are things unique about that area. The duck popula- 16 tion on the lake has been studied for many, many years. I 17 personally take five different classes, different courses, 18 out to that facility. There are rare species of ducks that 19 appear on that lake. Disturbances with -- including, not a 20 duck, the bald eagle is an occasional visitor to the lake. 21 Disturbances would do away with that kind of biota on the 22 lake. In fact, I looked in -- we did a search in the 23 library and we found 13 scientific publications in the 24 library based on the Lake Fayetteville area, and that 25 doesn't include other reports that are available that are GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 64 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not deposited in the library. We maintain the only bird banding station in the state out there. There is a small deer herd that is present on the facility. These things would all be threatened if there is too much activity and too much development proceeding towards the environmental center. Also, the -- I don't know if anyone here has ever seen woodcock perform. The woodcock is a nothing bird that is a hunted bird in some parts of the country. It's not too artfully hunted here but, nevertheless, they put on a spectacular aerial display at sundown to attract the fe- male, and Lake Fayetteville Environmental Center is the only place I know left in the Fayetteville area where that occurs, and if you want to go see it, you can go the last part of February and the first part of March at sundown and just stand in that parking lot and watch the performance. An idea about how developments and squeezing in a natural area can affect things, I compared my mammal class, mammology class, our mammal trapping experience out there at the environmental center as it now occurs. In 1962, and believe me, there was nothing out there except the environmental center in 1962. I don't even think 265 had been built. There wasn't even any road behind it at that time. The -- we caught 15 mammals a night in the fields out there, five species. The mammology class this fall caught one mammal a night, two species, and that kind GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 85 I• • n u 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of thing will just go on and on until we won't have any- thing left if things develop the way they're going. Thank you. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Let me ask for a show of hands of those that wish to speak on this item tonight. It looks like we have a little more than 10 people left to speak, and I would ask that you please not repeat things that have been brought up by previous speakers and try to hold your comments down as much as possible. Everyone's comment is important, so we want to hear from everybody, but if we hear from everyone, we might be here until tomor- row morning. So let's please be brief. JANET GALLMAN: My name is Janet Gallman and before I developed the alter ego of a lawyer here in Fayetteville -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: That's why I brought that up before a lawyer spoke. JANET GALLMAN: -- I was privileged to count myself as a student of Dr. Bailey and Dr. James, who you've just heard from as an environmental biologist and a quantum ecologist and I just want to say to you folks that, thank goodness, the planning commissions and the city councils 25 years ago had the foresight to give me the opportunity to be one of the first classes in Fayetteville, Arkansas to use that center out there as a high school student, as a GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 86 • I college student, and still have that nature preserve avail - 2 able to me, my family, and my friends today, and it fright - 3 ens me to see the impact that the two professors have 4 addressed for you being -- of the track compromising the 5 adjacent use of the properties that are out there. I think 6 it's really important that you all have that forethought 7 and look to -- and Lee Ward is looking off in Never -Never 8 Land. Hug a tree; right, Lee? 9 COMMISSIONER WARD: Definitely. 10 JANET GALLMAN: I think it's really impor- 11 tant that you all have that same forethought that your 12 precedessors had 25 years ago when they started the Lake • 13 Fayetteville project and that you continue with your ide- 14 als. You all are doing great and it's in your hands and I 15 trust that you will do the right thing and possibly explore 16 alternate locations to this very sensitive area in Fayette - 17 ville. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. 19 ROY FULLER: My name is Roy Fuller. I'm the 20 president of Northwest Arkansas Audubon Society and a 21 resident of Fayetteville for 32 years. Let's see. Mr. 22 Odom and members of the planning commission, I do have a 23 letter from the Audubon Society. May I distribute that to 24 each member? 25 Let's see. This is Monday night. You know, GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 87 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 if I were home right now, you know what I'd be doing? I'd be watching Antique Road Show. I don't know if you all have ever seen that show, but you know, people bring funny, strange objects that they present to experts, and these experts sometimes tell these people that "My gosh! This thing is worth $5,000.00 or this pot is worth $20,000.00," and it's, you know, really fun to see the expressions on people's faces when they find that the object that they didn't think was worth anything, really was worth a lot, and so now that brings me to Lake Fayetteville, and I think a lot of you here are conscious of the value of property. I see some realtors. I see some businessmen. So what is the value of Lake Fayetteville as an undisturbed piece of property right in the middle of an urban area? Now, one way you could count it, I guess, would be to say, "Well, what if we subdivided it? What if we cleared that thing and put R-2 apartments?" Well, you would come up with a certain value. But I maintain that as an undisturbed, wild area it will have more value down the road because of its uniqueness. Now, let's think, where are there other Lake Fayettevilles? Can you find one in Springdale? No. They've got some parks. Can you find one in Rogers? Lake Atalanta, but not the same. They don't have the amount of woods around it. It's not -- it's really wild. Benton- ville doesn't have anything. Fort Smith, you can go to the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 88 • 1 Oxley Nature Center in Fort Smith. If you haven't been 2 there, it's worth a trip. Now, Fort Smith is a mature 3 town. They have a lot of foresight. I suggest it might be 4 an interesting trip to see what Fort Smith has done with a 5 wild area in an urban place. Now, these antiques that I 6 was talking about are valuable because they're old, because 7 they're rare, and condition has something to do with it 8 too. A few days ago somebody brought in a piece of pottery 9 and the appraiser said, "Well, this thing would be worth 10 $5,000.00 but, look, we've got a little crack right here on 11 the back. So, now it's only $2,000.00." Well, what I'm 12 concerned, you see, is these cracks. We're cracking away • 13 at Lake Fayetteville when you do this sort of thing. 14 Now, just one more comment. I've been 15 living in Fayetteville for 32 years. This town is, I 16 think, at least 150 or 160 years old. I think as planners 17 maybe we have a responsibility to look beyond just next 18 year and beyond five years. Let's look down the road -- my 19 gosh! Let's look 50 years. No, let's look 100 years down 20 the road. Planners, what will this area be like in 100 21 years? Well, I think we know. I think that with the 22 population doubling, I think we're going to have a million 23 people in Washington County. I think we could have two 24 million people in the two county areas. So then, you see, 25 where are the woods? They're going to be gone. We're GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 89 I• 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cutting them down bit by bit. So the only thing that's going to remain is park land, and Lake Fayetteville as a preserve unit 100 years from now -- I'm getting emotional -- will be as valuable as Central Park is to Manhattan. See, Manhattan used to be a wooded island. Go back a couple hundred years. It was all woods. Now they've got Central Park. I think there are uses -- I think there are things that could be planned for this area. If you'd like to take a trip with me, let's go down to Tucslagoody areas in the state of Chompis in Mexico and see what that city did with the wood right at the edge of the city. It's really remarkable what they've done. They get visitors from all over the world there. It's a landmark. So let's plan a junket down to Mexico and see what they did. Thank you. CHAIRMAN ODOM: I'm sorry to hear you don't watch the planning commission meetings on Monday night. WAYNE KRUG: My name is Wayne Krug and I'm an attorney that has been hired by a group of residents from Springdale and from Fayetteville in order to come up and voice some specific objections to the park, and provide you with one person rather than the 20 or so that have gotten together to hire me, and maybe speed this process along. Frankly, I think you've heard the best GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r� U reasons already not to put this in and that's the preserva- tion of Lake Fayetteville as a wildlife area or as a natu- ral area or as close to a natural area as we're going to find around here, but let me give you a couple more reasons that are maybe a little more pragmatic. First of all, when I read the proposal, it seemed to me that I was watching an old fashioned railroad- ing by the parks department. I know that's strong words but I want to go down through what I see as part of that railroading and convince you that those strong words are indeed proper in this case. The engine driving this railroad job is the parks department's recommendation that the request of Mr. Light and Mr. Faust be just 0.985 acres. If you'll notice, when they were asked to explain that to the satisfaction of this commission, they didn't do it. A member of the parks department came up and said, "Well, we looked at bigger. We looked at smaller. This is exactly what will fit the track," and that's right. This is exactly what will fit the track. But what you don't get in that 0.985 acres is access to the track. There's not a single road touching the track in that 0.985 acres. What you don't get is a single parking space. What you don't get is a single rest room facility, and something that's pretty important to a track like this, what you don't get is a staging area. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 91 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Someplace for the people to come and -- when these tracks are used, riders don't all ride together. They're broken up into groups and they're sorted by age and ability, and it's an extraordinarily competitive sport, and it's an exciting sport to watch, and it has to be broken up that way. So you've got a tremendous period of time on race day when you're not racing because the other group is racing. The older groups, the younger groups, the -- those in different abilities are racing and we don't have a staging area in this 0.985 acres. The 0.985 acres, I'd like to point out, is less than one half the size of what would be required for a lot split in an agriculture zone, and I know you're going to say "This isn't a lot split." "This isn't a lot split," and technically it's not, but effectively this is certainly a lot split because what the city -- what the city's parks department has said that they want to do is carve out 0.985 acres and lease it to somebody else to take care of. Now, that's a lot split. I mean, legally it's not a lot split and I know that. Technically it's not a lot split and you know that, but as a practical matter, that's exactly what it is. The 0.985 acres is used specifically to avoid the city council and public oversight of this process by the parks department. Now, that's a harsh criticism but I've looked at this three ways to Sunday and that's the only GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 92 I• • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reason I can come up with for that odd description and something that absolutely takes up no more land than neces- sary. Something that provides general access. Something that provides no staging area. Something that provides no access to facilities, including parking. I want to go next to parking. The parks department addressed -- kind of the second car, the first car right behind this engine is parking, and the parks department addressed and said -- again, it was parks de- partment, not Mr. Light, but the parks department said, "Parking is taken care of because over down a couple of hundred feet away there is a parking lot in the park," and that's true. But if I were to come in and ask for a use for a variance from this board, I would be required to do one of two things. One, either put parking on site, and we don't have room for that with this acreage, or two, come up with a parking use permit where someone that has parking away has contracted with me so that I can use that parking, and you would look at that parking use permit and make sure there there were enough parking spaces there for me and for them with their current use, and if I couldn't provide you with that parking information, you wouldn't issue my per- mit. We don't have a parking agreement. We don't have a parking agreement. We don't even have an access agreement between the parking lot and the site. Even if there were a GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 93 • 1 parking agreement, I think you may have trouble with the 2 numbers of parking. Now, the parking regulations provide 3 that something like this is going to have one parking space 4 per thousand square feet. 0.985 acres is approximately 5 42,000 square feet. So we need a parking agreement of 42 6 parking spaces, still leaving enough parking spaces for all 7 the required parking under the code for the Fayetteville 8 Park. Even if that could be done, the parking as it sets 9 up is not proper parking. Now, it's proper parking and 10 fine now, because it's an existing use but what we're 11 talking about is not an existing use. What we're talking 12 about is either a new use or an expansion of a use, but • 13 when you do an expansion, you have to come before this 14 board and, guess what? You get to meet all the new parking 15 requirements if you're doing an expansion in a business or 16 someplace else, which means we've got to have striping. 17 We've got to have all the concrete dividers. We've got to 18 have handicap parking, and handicap parking leads me to the 19 next thing. I don't know a way in the world they're going 20 to make this accessible, this public use facility accessi- 21 ble, under the Americans with Disabilities Act, because 22 you've got a parking lot several hundred feet away across a 23 field, and I can't conceive of a way where you can get a 24 wheelchair across that field if the weather is bad. I 25 can't conceive of a way where you're comfortably going to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 94 • 1 get a wheelchair across that field if the weather is good. 2 The next railroad car is the parks depart - 3 ment's refusal to address bathroom facilities. Now, they 4 say, "We've got bathroom facilities down there and we don't 5 need any on the site because, you know, if we put them on 6 the site, we'd have to make it more than an acre. Well, 7 the park currently has one male rest room and one female 8 rest room, and the last time I checked, they were locked. 9 And when you're bringing in this kind of an activity, 10 you're hoping for literally hundreds of people. You want a 11 lot of riders. They're going to have a lot of support with 12 family, and one male rest room and one female rest room is • 13 quite simply insufficient. 14 The next car on the train, frankly, is still 15 with what I see as legal problems that are caused by the 16 City of Fayetteville issuing a below market lease to a 17 private for-profit corporation or group. Now, that's kind 18 of addressed in the packet and they said they don't want to 19 create a not-for-profit corporation because of the expense 20 and the time involved, and I want to tell you that that's 21 just absolutely a red herring. You don't have to be a 22 501(c)3, which anybody that's put one together knows is 23 rather expensive and rather time consuming, to be a not - 24 for-profit corporation in Arkansas. We have a not -for - 25 profit statute in the corporation books, and I'll tell you, GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 95 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you get the initial paperwork to form your corporation, the statement of the incorporation from the State of Arkansas. They'll give you a form that you can fill in. You can go to the library and you can pick up a set of bylaws for not-for-profit corporations, or you can go on the internet and pick up a set of bylaws for not-for-profit corpora- tions, and for a little leg work and less than $100.00, you can have a not-for-profit corporation in Arkansas, and that $100.00 includes the first year's franchise fee. So we're dealing with a for-profit corporation and I think we've got a couple of problems with that. First of all, I think that that is very -- not very close. When you give a below- market lease for a for-profit corporation, I think you're in violation of three sections of the Arkansas Constitu- tion: Article XII, Section 5; Article XVI, Section 1; and Article XVI, Section 3, and I won't quote all those arti- cles to you, but generally those articles prohibit the use of public money or credit or property to make profit for an individual, and Article XVI, Section 3 criminalizes that. Now, I'm not sure -- I didn't read the cases. I don't know whether it criminalizes it for the city or for the individ- ual, but I'll tell you that it creates a penalty. I think contracting with a not-for-profit corporation leaves the city open to liability. The propos- al that came to the commission today shows that this track GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 96 I• E • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is going to be insured by the ABA during the races. That proposal also shows that we're going to have races seven hours a week. That means the other 161 hours a week there is no insurance. In addition to the seven hours a week that there is going to be racing, there's four or five hours a week that they're going to be practicing. That means all the rest of the days there is nobody there, and you have a mound that is 10 or 12 or 15 feet high at the start line, and you have a lot of ups and downs, and you have something that looks really cool to skateboarders, and that looks really cool to kids, and you have what is known to plaintiff's lawyers as an attractive nuisance. Now, that frankly gives a great deal of liability to Mr. Light, and there is nothing in the proposal about him being bonded in order to protect the city, and somebody is going to step back and say, "Well, the city has got immunity and we can stand behind that immunity." Well, I suggest to you that that immunity is not what it once was in the state of Arkansas. The city has immunity for governmental func- tions. It may not have immunity for functions that are not governmental. It does not have immunity for intentional acts on the part of the city that harm an individual, and I would suggest that intentionally entering into a contract, a below-market lease, with a for-profit corporation that you know is not insured, that you know is not bonded, that GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 97 1 you know creates an attractive nuisance, can create some 2 liability for the city, and I want to point out that this 3 is located right next to playground equipment. It's not 4 like it's out in the middle of nowhere and you have to be 5 going there to get there. You can be going there to play 6 on the swings and just decide it's going to be really cool 7 to run down the hill, or ride the bike down the hill with 8 no supervision, or ride the skateboard down the hill, or go 9 off the side of the hill, or play Ring of the Hill. 10 The next car on this train is the statement 11 in the opening part of the presentation that says this is a 12 use that is intended to increase the use of the park and to 13 keep out undesirable elements. Now, "undesirable elements" 14 isn't really defined, and everybody can imagine what the 15 parks department was thinking about, but I want to examine 16 that statement just a little bit, because this doesn't 17 work. If that's a real goal, this project doesn't work to 18 take care of that goal. Again, we have about 11 or 12 19 hours a week where this facility is going to be in active 20 use. At least according to the presentation. Eleven or 12 21 hours a week, and the rest of the time it's not going to be 22 in active use and it's never going to be in active use if 23 it's passed the way it's set up after dark, because there 24 aren't going to be any lights, and you sure don't want 25 people riding that thing on bikes in the dark. So most of • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 98 1 the undesirable activity, or a significant amount of the 2 undesirable activity, is going to take place after dark, 3 and by putting this track in a public park, what we've done 4 is create great hiding places for this undesirable activi- 5 ty, because we've got these huge mounds of dirt and we've 6 got these infields, and that's just a fact. If there is 7 undesirable activity in the park, you've created cover for 8 them. If there's not undesirable activity in the park, 9 then that's a red herring on the part of the parks depart - 10 ment, 11 The next car on this consists of the -- of 12 an idea, I guess, that this is the only site. Well, cer- • 13 tainly it's not the only site within the City of Fayette - 14 ville. I'm sure there are a lot of private sites. Maybe 15 that's meant that this is the only site -- the only park 16 site, and I frankly don't believe that. I don't believe 17 that this is the only park site. This city has dedicated 18 acres and acres of parks a year, every time a new subdivi- 19 sion is developed, and with those you get a new site that 20 you can plan a park from scratch and do exactly what you 21 want and not tear down anything or not disturb anything 22 that the community has been used to, and I would suggest 23 that that would certainly be a more appropriate place. 24 The caboose, and every -- yeah, that's the 25 last car on the train -- everybody is happy to hear that. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 99 n u I The caboose consists of the presentation, and the caboose 2 is there to cover your behind. Let's talk about the pre - 3 sentation. First of all, I want to read from the presenta- 4 tion, just very small parts of Section 161.03, District A- 5 1, agricultural. "Designed to protect agricultural land 6 until an orderly transition to urban development has been 7 accomplished." We're in urban development at Fayetteville 8 Park. I mean, there is no -- this is not on the edge of 9 town. This is smack dab between two cities, which Spring - 10 dale and Fayetteville are butting together. It's -- that 11 is urban development. 12 Then you go to Unit 20, which is commercial • 13 recreational large sites, and that's what they want passed 14 is a commercial recreational large site. This unit con - 15 sista of commercial recreational facilities which are 16 usually conducted out-of-doors, on large sites, in undevel- 17 oped, outlying parts of the city. Uses in the unit have an 18 adverse effect on certain other uses. They are often noisy 19 and they are large traffic generators. Now, race days I 20 would assume that it's going to be noisy because there's 21 going to be a lot of cheering going on, and race days I'm 22 going to assume that there's going to be a large amount of 23 traffic. 24 Then let's look at what the city -- at what 25 the parks department is asking you to make an absolute GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 100 • 1 finding. One, that granting the conditional use will not 2 adversely affect the public interest. Well, it's sure 3 going to adversely affect the public interest of everybody 4 who is used to using that as a park and a nature preserve, 5 and I don't think you can make that finding. 6 That ingress and egress to the proposed 7 track have been considered and found to be adequate. Well, 8 they haven't been. You can get -- on a public road, you 9 can get to a parking lot 200 to 300 feet away from the 10 site, but I don't know how you get from the parking lot to 11 the site. Well, as a practical matter, sure you know how 12 you get there. You walk across the field, but they don't • 13 have that right, other than the fact that it's a public 14 park, and if they would have made it big enough so that you 15 could have access, well, gee, guess what? We're back over 16 an acre and you've got to bring this before the public and 17 the city council. 18 Off-street parking will be located or -- 19 excuse me. And again with ingress and egress to the pro - 20 posed track, Section B, and that is, "Off-street parking 21 and loading areas will require particular attention." 22 Well, we don't have them. Maybe there will be an agreement 23 with the city. We don't know, because it hasn't been 24 presented as part of this package. They have no legal 25 right to parking at all. They may not have a legal right • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 101 • 1 to get parking because we don't know how many spaces are 2 there. We don't know how many the park needs. We don't 3 know if there are enough to give them a contract for 43 4 spaces. 5 Utilities -- and when I'm talking about 6 utilities, I'm going to refer to the public facilities 7 that's not been addressed. Two locked rest rooms does not 8 give you public facilities, and the project is compatible 9 with adjacent properties and other properties in the dis- 10 trict. Well, I tell you, I don't think it's compatible 11 with the nature trail, and while 90 percent and maybe more 12 of the riders would not consider going and riding their • 13 bikes on the nature trail, that 10 percent can do enough 14 damage to wipe the trail out. It's not compatible with a 15 residential area. it's not compatible with the definition 16 of a Unit 20, which is an outlying area. I don't think you 17 can make those findings. I don't think you can make those 18 findings in good conscience. I think this is a good pro - 19 ject. I think it's just been located by the parks depart - 20 ment in the wrong place. 21 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Next? 22 RYAN JOHNSON: My name is Ryan Johnson, and 23 I'm the junior development coordinator for the Tyson racing 24 team. We're a road racing bicycling team. i see this BMX 25 track as a wonderful opportunity for the young kids of our GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 102 • 1 area, both Springdale and Fayetteville, because the site 2 planned for it is right in between the two cities obvi- 3 ously. The nice thing about the site, I think, is that the 4 young kids, when they -- if they want to go ride to the 5 track, which would be great, they don't have to cross any 6 major vehicular arteries. They don't have to cross any 7 major highways. So in the interest of safety and welfare 8 of kids, that's a good idea rather than sticking it off on 9 the other side of Highway 16 or the other side of 71 some - 10 where, or the bypass, or out where nobody can access it, 11 and they have to get permission from their parents to get 12 out there, or, you know, catch a ride with somebody else. • 13 That makes it a lot more difficult for the kids to get out 14 there to make it to the races. So the easier the access, 15 the better, I think. 16 What I'm interested in is promoting the 17 competitive aspect of bicycle riding. Obviously lots of 18 kids have bikes because that's how they get to their 19 friend's house, okay, but there is an inherent beauty in 20 bicycle racing that it's sometimes an individual sport, and 21 kids that don't do well in ball sports or in things in 22 school, they can find some way to focus their competitive 23 aspect, and bike racing is a good way to do it. That's the 24 way I found it was for me and I know that I'm not the only 25 one. Obviously all these young guys that sat through this GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 103 • 1 heinously boring discussion tonight and all these tangen- t tial orations, you know, about water fowl, these guys want 3 it, you know. They're here for a reason. They've been 4 here for three hours. So my main concern is -- or the 5 reason I want it, I'd like to go out and race and ride on 6 it and it would help diversify my bike riding, but also if 7 I could get some of these guys interested in it, then we 8 can get more juniors involved in racing at my level, and 9 what I do, mountain bike racing both and road racing, and 10 the United States Cycling Federation is our sanctioning 11 body for road racing, and NORBA which is the sanctioning 12 body for mountain bike racing, they have noted a steady • 13 decline in junior licensees in the last 10 years, and it 14 continually goes downhill, while our master's aged and 15 senior aged riders are licensees, the numbers go up. What 16 that means is no kids are getting licenses to race bikes. 17 What that means is in the Olympics now that road racing, 18 mountain bike racing, cross-country mountain bike racing -- 19 they're Olympic sports and the United States has fallen way 20 behind in the international competitive aspect, and the 21 reason is because every country in the world has an awesome 22 junior development program, and we don't have anything. In 23 our grass roots, the junior development program in the 24 United States has fallen way behind. BMX is a good way to 25 get kids into it, and if BMX parents get involved, get • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 104 • 1 their kids involved -- the bikes are inexpensive. They can 2 get out there and have a good time. It's real easy to get 3 started. 4 As far as compatibility with the surrounding 5 area, yeah, there is -- it's near a residential neighbor - 6 hood, but residential means what? What's there? Resi- 7 dents? Yeah, and 2.4 percent of every resident is kids. 8 So what are the kids going to do? Well, they might just go 9 down there and access that BMX track and have a good time 10 and learn something and develop some skills and develop not 11 only bike riding skills but real role skills. You know, 12 stuff about taming their stress levels, or becoming in - 13 creasingly competitive, and learning patience or 14 aggressiveness or whatever, depending on what they want to 15 do. You know, learn how to focus instead of, you know, 16 wandering around aimlessly, getting involved in -- you 17 know, bad things. Smoking crack or whatever, you know. 18 As far as impact to the environment, you 19 know, a 10 -foot high starting ramp and a couple of small 20 mounds and things like that are definitely not as visually 21 -- definitely not as visually stunning as the earthen dam 22 that was put there by man to create the lake. This is not 23 a pristine, untouched -- I mean, granted, Lake Fayetteville 24 is beautiful, but it is not a virgin by any means, because 25 it -- the entire -- the reservoir was created by humans and GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 105 I it flooded some guy's property. 2 I'm a -- honestly, I'm an earth science 3 major. Actually I just got my graduate -- or my degree, 4 and I have concern for the environment. When I ride my 5 mountain bike on the trail in the Ozark National Forest, 6 which I love, I pick up trash and I fill my backpack up 7 full of junk that I find on the trail, because I don't like 8 to see it, and I don't take in what I can't take out, you 9 know, and that's one thing that we like to do when we're 10 out riding is steward this responsibility for the environ - 11 went, you know, to the other people that go along with the 12 group, and that's something that we can pass along to the • 13 young guys, you know, on the BMX track. 14 But I think that if you were to -- you know, 15 looking forward a hundred years, somebody said earlier -- 16 we could torch the whole town of Fayetteville, and a hun- 17 dred years later there's going to be new trees, new grass. 18 I mean, that's the worst case scenario, but we could blow 19 the whole place apart and Mother Nature is going to take 20 care of itself if you give it a hundred years. Look at 21 Yellowstone. I mean, I'm not talking about doing any kind 22 of damage like that, but the BMX track, I don't think it's 23 going to have such a massive impact that it's going to silt 24 in the lake. Okay? If -- 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Ladies and gentlemen, please GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r�q LJ show this gentleman the same respect that he showed you. RYAN JOHNSON: A carefully designed BMX track is going to be a design that you don`t have to go in and fill in rain ruts all the time. The way they're going to design the track is it's going to withstand weather and erosional stuff, because you don't want to have to go back after every little rain and fill in rain ruts and things like that. So it will be designed into the natural terrain as best it can to preserve itself. So I'm just -- I'm really for it and I think that these guys right here have shown that there is a great interest among the young people here and that they really want it. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Johnson, RYAN JOHNSON: Thanks, TOM McKINNEY: Good evening, you all. My name is Tom McKinney. I'm with the Arkansas Chapter of the Sierra Club, and we're representing the almost 200 members of the City of Fayetteville and about 50 members we have up in Springdale and I -- the young gentleman that just spoke and I agree on just about everything. The only place we disagree is about the location for this track, and honestly I could not think of the parks department coming up with a decision on where to put this facility that would generate more controversy than this. I'm really curious why I'm here, because this just seems like another in a series of GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 107 • 1 schemes to do something with Lake Fayetteville. It seems 2 like folks just can't stand to see it sitting there and 3 consider -- and what they consider not doing anything. 4 There have been schemes to put golf courses out there. 5 There have been schemes to let a millionaire build a man - 6 sion, raise horses, and donate everything back to the city 7 in a hundred years. This is a fragmentation process that 8 if it continues would definitely degrade the quality of the 9 Lake Fayetteville area. I know it is not up in front of 10 you all tonight but the planning division told me that they 11 were working on some sort of plan for an RV park out there, 12 and this is just, again, a progression of possibly having • 13 an RV park or something out there. It's just a progression 14 of things that are going to keep impacting on the Lake 15 Fayetteville area. As far as I know, there have been no 16 studies done for what kind of erosion this kind of facility 17 will contribute to the lake, not only the footprint of the 18 actual track, but the area between the track and the park - 19 ing that would get rutted out real bad. I've heard nothing 20 -- for the kind of summer we had last summer, of no plans 21 for watering the track down twice a week or whatever it's 22 going to take to keep the dust down. There has been no 23 studies on the impact, direct impact this facility might 24 have on any of the animal and deer populations out there, 25 and the scheme to do something with Lake Fayetteville got GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 108 1 so bad that the city council -- I think it was four or six 2 years ago -- the years are running away with me now -- 3 passed an ordinance setting aside the Fayetteville Environ - 4 mental Study Center and approximately 360 acres for the 5 next 50 years. I don't know what the map 'looked like. 6 Honestly I don't know if this particular part is included 7 in that acreage, but the city council has gone on record 8 time after time by defeating other schemes by passing this 9 ordinance that the Lake Fayetteville area, it's best and 10 highest use, is for the wildlife environmental education 11 and the folks to have some green space to visit without 12 having to drive all the way out to Lake Wedington. . 13 Now, I couldn't agree more that the young 14 folks here this evening need something to do. The biking 15 program sounds really great, but find an acceptable site 16 and a site that is not so sensitive and a site that every - 17 body can agree upon, and, again, I'll be more than happy to 18 work with these folks to come up with that very thing. So 19 I would ask you all to not grant this conditional permit 20 this evening and let's go back to work and find a site 21 where we can get this thing done and get it done right. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Tom. 24 PAUL STOKESBERRY: My name is Paul Stokes - 25 berry and I don't have much to say about it but I've been GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 109 n LJ 1 to other tracks and seen other tracks and they're not just 2 a big pile of dirt, and they don't look as bad as people 3 are going to think they're going to look. Especially when 4 there's kids out there riding on it having fun, and I went 5 out and looked at where the track is going to be and 6 there's not even that many trees out there or anything. 7 It's not going to be as bad of an eyesore as everybody 8 thinks, and that's -- what it turns out to look like, most 9 people are going to think it's going to be is just some big 10 ugly thing sitting out in the middle of the field, but -- 11 and another thing that a lot of the people don't realize -- 12 I mean, look at the other side of the place where most of • 13 the people against it are sitting, and there's not that 14 many kids over there. I mean, I think the people should 15 just stop and look at what the kids need for a little 16 while. I mean, it would be a really good thing for like 17 the younger kids around here. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Stokesberry. 19 PAUL STOKESBERRY: That's about it. 20 BEN ELVINS: My name is Ben Elvins, and this 21 track will do us a lot of good, because sometimes we don't 22 have places to ride, and where we ride we have rocks and 23 we're tearing up our tires all the time. So we need this 24 track to ride on and have fun. Like Paul said, there's 25 other tracks but they're far away. We don't have time to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 110 travel. So we'd like one right here in our home town to ride on to have fun on and other stuff like that. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Ben. TIM SNOW: My name is Tim Snow. I live in Fayetteville and I've been riding my bike for about two years. First of all, I want to thank everybody for like listening to us, you know, at least you all are considering and, you know, around Fayetteville there's not much for kids to do. Like go to the movies. Skate Station, I don't know if you guys know where that is. It's over there by O'Reilly's. Well, that's a good place but it's for skate- boarders, you know. You know, people that ride bikes don't really have anywhere to ride. I mean, you always see people trying to pass laws about, you know, no bikers on the sidewalks and stuff. I mean, we're not going to -- we're going to be on the sidewalks if we don't have any- where else. You know, like I said, there's not much for kids to do around here and it's not like we want to cut all the trees down at Lake Fayetteville and make a huge bike trail. We want to use one little acre, you know, and we're not going to dry up the whole lake. I mean, I can see what these people like are concerned about, you know, like the biology of the woods and how this might disrupt the animals and stuff but, you know, it's an acre. How many other acres are there out there? And that's all I've got to say. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 n �J 1 I want to thank you guys for listening. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Tim. Anybody 3 else? 4 CHUCK BALL: My name is Chuck Ball. I'm 5 from Fayetteville. I'm not a real good public speaker. I 6 grew up in Springdale all my life. I live in Fayetteville 7 now. I ride mountain bikes, BMX bikes, continuously all 8 year long. I think it's great that the Fayetteville Police 9 Department has a bike patrol. That's great for the kids. 10 We have somebody to relate to. I've never had a little 11 brother or a little sister. I take a lot of these guys 12 riding with me during the week. You probably see a lot of • 13 us downtown just playing around trying to stay in parking 14 lots and do whatever. You know, we've tried real hard to 15 look at all these different locations that I've heard 16 mentioned. You know, the Industrial Park. Well, that's 17 fine, but, you know, not all these guys can drive, and not 18 all their parents are off at 3:00 in the afternoon when 19 they're out of school, and a lot of them don't have rides 20 to get down there. Another thing is, a lot of these guys 21 -- or me, actually. I was never real good -- you know, a 22 team sports player. I was always more of an individual. 23 That's what I excelled at. Like I said, I'm 25. I would 24 like to someday, you know, within the next three years, 25 turn pro as a BMX racer. Marvin and I travel across coun- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 112 • 1 try a lot of the time racing all these different national 2 events. You know, if we have a local track -- you know, 3 for a lot of these guys, they're up and comers, a lot of 4 young guys. You know, these guys could be the next stars 5 of the sport. You know, look at our basketball crown -- 6 the basketball program at the U of A. You know, it's a 7 great program. Baseball, football, the same thing. Well, 8 those are all team sports, and a lot of these guys aren't 9 involved in team sports. 10 Fayetteville used to brag about how they had 11 the first bicycle patrol in Northwest Arkansas, and that's 12 great. The police department, they're a bunch of good • 13 guys, and they seem to support what we're trying to get 14 done. I just really hate to see us go backwards, you know, 15 and not let us have this. Like this issue that was brought 16 up a few months ago in the November ballot whenever Fay - 17 etteville made it legal to be able to discriminate against 18 somebody on their sexual preference. You know, a lot of 19 these people, they've never been to a BMX race. I'd love 20 for them to go. That would be great, and if they've got 21 kids, let the kids ask, you know, "Hey, can I go to a BMX 22 race?" Take them. Maybe they're not interested in foot - 23 ball or baseball or soccer. Maybe they just want to try 24 something different. You know, maybe this could work for 25 them. Maybe if they grow up racing BMX it could evolve GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 113 I• • r1 u 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 into a mountain bike, you know. From there they could go to the Olympics, you know. Some of you people could have children that are Olympic material and you don't even know it because you're not even going to give us a chance. You know, I know there's a few issues that are a little out of balance here, you know, with liability. Well, let us sit down and try to talk with some of these lawyers and try to figure this thing out. You know, it just seems like a bad, backwards thing if you all don't let us have it, and I'd hate to see us not get it, because I hate traveling every Saturday morning to Tulsa just to go racing, you know, and I do that every week. I'd like to be able to jump in my car and drive 15 minutes to the other side of town and be able to go racing for a weekend and see all these guys, you know, holding up a trophy or a ribbon or something, and have smiles on their face. You know, I don't see that now. I had to step up, you know, and act like a big brother for Paul here and take him racing this last weekend, and that felt good to me, you know, to be able to take him racing and show him a good time, but we'll never see it in Northwest Arkansas if you guys don't give us a chance, and I just -- I hope you all give us a chance and let us have it. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Chuck. CHUCK BALL: Thank you. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 114 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ROY FULLER: Can I -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, I really don't like re -performances, but if you've got something new and some- thing short -- ROY FULLER: Just 30 seconds. Yeah, it's something new. I'm very disturbed by the idea of kids riding their bicycle to that location. How do you get there from Fayetteville? At least one mile of 71B is required. That is the only way you can get in there from Fayetteville. It sounds like a very hazardous situation. I hope these guys get their track. I want them to, but not at Lake Fayetteville. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Anybody else? Seeing no one else, I'll close the floor to public discussion and bring it back to the parks board. BRENDA THIEL: Well, I'm Brenda Thiel with the parks advisory board, and I just want to say a few things and then I'm going to let the parks staff kind of answer some -- respond to some of the things that were brought up. The parks board looked and considered -- looked at and considered a lot of sites for over a year before we chose this site, and the biggest problem with most of the sites in Fayetteville were that they were too swampy. We have a lot of -- you know, that was -- or they were neighborhood parks. I mean, small parks in neighbor- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 115 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hoods. You can't have that there. This location was so ideal because it was between Springdale and Fayetteville, and the particular site that we chose had, you know, no trees. I think there was like one or two. So we weren't clear -cutting an area. We were leaving -- by putting it at the very north side of the pavilion we were leaving a big area between the pavilion and the park. I mean, we weren't just locking it right in the middle. We also felt like that we were staying far enough away from the -- see, there's still roughly 250 acres in the environmental study center area. The botanical gardens, which someone men- tioned, that's on the south side of the park. So that -- or the south side of the lake, so that doesn't concern this area at all, and that's over 98.6 acres. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Would you repeat that statement? I just didn't hear it. BRENDA THIEL: The botanical gardens area is on the south side of the park. It's not -- south and east side of the lake. In other words, this is a whole differ- ent vicinity of the lake. And there's how many total acres in the lake? KIM ROGERS: 650. BRENDA THIEL: 650 acres. We're only talk- ing about a little over an acre and, you know, it's really -- it's -- so -- let's see. We also felt -- of course, GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 116 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 some of these things have already been mentioned. There is no sense repointing them out. You know, it was -- we just felt at the time that it was the best we could do. We felt like this was a really good thing for young people, and we felt like it was really needed and we want to provide, you know, a location for them, and at the time we just felt like this is a really good site and I think we still do. So I'll let Kim from the parks department address some of the other things. KIM ROGERS: I just want to bring up some other statements real quick. The amenities that led us to this site was the gravel parking, 50 to 60 spaces. Paved parking by softball fields, 80 spaces, and 25 gravel. Rest room. Water. Electricity. Picnic tables. Benches. A new fence around the entire lake area, and entry through Lake Fayetteville Road which is on city property. Shade trees and play equipment. Our division represents both parks and recreation. We're not directly next to the lake. This site will not be right next to the lake. The ramp height is not 15 feet. It's 6 to 7 feet. We looked at the Babe Ruth area and Combs Park area, and I have a letter from Tim Conklin which is on the planning division. He certified that this -- well, he was telling us all the different problems with it being in a floodway, and I'll pass around a copy of that. The nature center will remain GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 117 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a nature center. The location -- Marvin will show you the location and how far away it is from the proposed track. CHAIRMAN ODOM: We all have site maps. KIM ROGERS: Okay. CHAIRMAN ODOM: We've all been out there. KIM ROGERS: Riding on the grass will virtu- ally be impossible on these type of bikes as Marvin will explain in a moment. So I don't think it's going to dis- turb any of the nature trails. There's a very similar setup at the Botanical Gardens Society, Bambino, Babe Ruth, Soccer Association. With the uses of the city property and having a board of directors, the money goes back into the track. It's not a cost to our taxpayers for this benefi- cial endeavor except for a lease of city park land which we have done in the past. Also we want to lease the track usage only for it to be maintained. We want to keep main- taining the other facilities. This will have to go through city council as all other city leases -- city property leases. The rest rooms are locked due to it's wintertime, even though it's pretty warm right now, and they have to be winterized. The track is insured through the ABA. The tort immunity does cover us, as it covers baseball, soft- ball, soccer, sand volleyball courts, as I hurt my leg in volleyball not bikes. When it was stated "deter undesirable activ- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 118 I• • r 1 U 1 ity," that means people breaking the city laws. We are 2 very happy and excited that they are coming to us. It's 3 cost prohibitive for us to do this anywhere else in our 4 parks due to flooding of other areas. Not having the same 5 amenities that this shows. I think it's a great opportuni- 6 ty for the kids and young adults in Northwest Arkansas to 7 make new friends and have a new sport. It gives kids a 8 place to go and off the streets and we feel fortunate that 9 they have come to our city. Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. I think we're 11 back to the planning commission for questions and comments 12 of the applicant. 13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: A couple of ques- 14 tions. 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Johnson, you 16 now have the floor. 17 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Are there now in use 18 at the baseball or softball fields any loud -- any PA 19 systems? 20 KIM ROGERS: I'm sorry. Could you repeat 21 the question? 22 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: At the existing 23 softball fields or any other thing at this park, are there 24 now any PA systems? 25 KIM ROGERS: Yes, there is. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 119 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Where are those? KIM ROGERS: Bambino and Babe Ruth, I be- lieve. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. I understand that all -- VANCE ARNOLD: That's not at Lake Fayette- ville. Are you asking about at Lake Fayetteville? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes. I mean -- VANCE ARNOLD: That is at Babe Ruth in the Industrial Park. KIM ROGERS: That's what we just said. VANCE ARNOLD: Bambino -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think her question was directed specifically at Lake Fayetteville Park. Are there any loud speakers out there? KIM ROGERS: Not at the adult complex. Not at this time. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, are there at Lake Fayetteville Park? KIM ROGERS: No, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And you anticipate just using the existing parking lots? KIM ROGERS: Yes. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Is there any long- range plan to build additional parking lots? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 120 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KIM ROGERS: No, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: How many people would you estimate would be users on a typical Sunday afternoon? KIM ROGERS: Probably about 50. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thanks. COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the parks department. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Was there any space left at Walker Park for a facility like this? I thought I saw an open area that wasn't being used. KIM ROGERS: Soccer fields and it's also working soccer fields for practice fields. COMMISSIONER HOOVER: So all the way to the north there are soccer fields all the way? KIM ROGERS: Yes, COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? (June Fahardo, a member of the audience, said, "Mr. Chairman, may I speak?") CHAIRMAN ODOM: Ma'am, I've closed the floor to public discussion. Did you not hear me ask if anybody else wanted to speak? (June Fahardo said, "Did you?") CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, I did. (June Fahardo said, "I didn't hear you.") GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 121 CHAIRMAN ODOM: But since you did not hear me, I will allow you to speak if you will please come up to the podium. (June Fahardo said, "Thank you.") CHAIRMAN ODOM: You're welcome. JUNE FAHARDO: I'm a little bit hoarse. Pardon me. CHAIRMAN ODOM: That's okay. JUNE FAHARDO: My name is June Fahardo and I live directly across from the prospective track. When I heard about it, I went down and I talked to Mr. Light, I believe it was, and he said that the reason for this was that it was going to encourage the youth to bicycle and have more activity for the park. Well, I do not understand how the children from Fayetteville are going to get over here to this park to really utilize it in that fashion, because they'd have to come down Highway 71 on their bicy- cles or the others, and I don't think that's going to be very practical. Not for the children. Now, it could be very practical for the people who want to lease it. I also asked if there would be an admission charge to these races and he said no admission charge. So I wonder, where is the money coming to maintain this, and this worries me. Also, it is a beautiful natural area. About the only one, I think, that we have left, and it's a shame to destroy it GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 I• • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when there are other places that this type of activity could go forth. Now, the park, they say it's under uti- lized. Okay. We don't have any walking facility. We just have to walk -- when we go to the park, we have to walk through this tall grass. So if they could put in some hiking trails, something that the bicyclists could use and the people in the area could use. Old folks like me, we could go get our constitutional out there, and that's important too. As it is now, all I can do is look at the park, and it is a beautiful thing, and the City of Fayetteville has maintained it beautifully. I have been very blessed to be fortunate enough to live across from this pristine area, and I'd like to keep it that way. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? COMMISSIONER ESTES: It is my view that we very much need something like this in Fayetteville. The number of young people that have endured with us tonight are some evidence of that. I am not all that in favor of siting it on the north side of Lake Fayetteville, and with that comment, I have a couple of questions for parks, please. and study? How long has this been under consideration GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 123 I• • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KIM ROGERS: A year and three months. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Have you looked at alternative sites? KIM ROGERS: Yes, we have. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Can you give us an idea of the number or the extent of your search for alternative sites? KIM ROGERS: We have 54 parks, over 3200 acres, and this is what we've come down to. COMMISSIONER ESTES: Have you looked at each park and then tried to isolate a suitable site? KIM ROGERS: Yes, we have. COMMISSIONER ESTES: I guess I have a lawyer question for you, and being a lawyer I don't know how else to ask it, but let me ask you this: To a reasonable degree of certainty, as a person that is familiar with adminis- tering and managing and siting of parks, can we do no better than this? Is this really the best? KIM ROGERS: Absolutely. The best. CHAIRMAN ODOM: There was a question that was raised by the nice lady that just spoke regarding the maintenance, and since there is not going to be any insur- ance fee, who is going to be maintaining this and where is that money going to come from? I think that's a legitimate question. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 124 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MARVIN LIGHT: There is an entry fee to race. There is an entry for that. The extra money that is raised is going to be used to buy rakes and such to keep the track in good shape. The kids, they'll come out a couple of nights a month, or however often is needed to keep the track maintained and kept in a nice fashion. I mean, I believe it is a beautiful area, but I really hon- estly don't think it's going to be an eyesore as much as they think it is. I mean, you can pretty much go to any BMX track and they're clean. They're nice areas. Most of them are all in parks. So, I mean, there will be clean-up days to keep it clean and it will be picked up after every race. So. I mean, there's not going to be any problems with that. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Tucker? COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Questions that were raised. One regarding the staging area. Would you clear that up? MARVIN LIGHT: The staging area is behind the starting hill. I mean, it doesn't need a big area. It's just a big enough area for the kids to group and then there will be somebody calling the races, you know, with a clipboard saying "Moto Number 10," and the kids that are in Race Number 10, they will basically go up to the top of the hill, get in their assigned positions, and then that's how GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 125 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they start. COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Is there any -- I think part of the concern is having a big dirt pile on a hillside next to a lake. How are you going to keep the dirt from filtering into the lake? MARVIN LIGHT: The track will be graded. We're going to use the dirt that's there to build the track. So it's pretty much going to be a flat area. I'm not saying flat. I mean, it will run downhill. The track will run down a little bit, and that was another question that I asked Mr. Beavers this morning. Well, actually he had asked me about it, was the runoff and I explained to him where the track was and how far the distance was be- tween the track and the lake, and he said there was no -- he felt there was -- distance -wise I would probably say it's probably 400, maybe 500, yards to the lake. I'm just guessing the distance but it's a long ways. He feels that there was no concern of the runoff getting to the lake because of all the grass and such that it would have to run through. COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Is it my understanding that you are asking us at this point to deal with the sound system as well? MARVIN LIGHT: Yes, COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Do you have any guid- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 126 i• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ance for us in terms of the type of equipment and where you would locate the speakers? That's one thing that I would think, just as -- if nothing else, as a courtesy to the existing neighbors, is that the very minimum, having the speakers point away from the residential areas down toward the lake, I guess. MARVIN LIGHT: Correct. They will point towards the lake. I spoke with a gentleman on the phone the other day about different speakers and such like that. A horn speaker which is used just for voices. He said that would carry a long ways. So he told me about the use of a speaker that you could play music through. The distance it travels is not very far at all. I mean, it would be the same kind of speaker that you would find in a car. It works well for voices and, you know, as music, but the voice -- it just doesn't travel the distances, and then pointing at the -- you know, it's not going to be pointed at the neighbor's house. Like I said earlier, it will comply with all the noise ordinances of Fayetteville. COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Noise ordinances tend to go toward the maximum allowable, and I hope you will be well below that -- that, yes. MARVIN LIGHT: It's going to be well below TUCKER: -- to the minimum GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 127 • 1 required. 2 MARVIN LIGHT: Yes. The maximum is 70, I 3 believe. It's going to be well below that. It's going to 4 be loud enough just so everybody can hear it. I don't want 5 to blast anybody out of the neighborhood or anything like 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Mr. Chairman, I've got 8 a question for the applicant. I don't understand the 9 lighting. Are you asking for lighting or you're not going 10 to have lighting? 11 MARVIN LIGHT: No, not at this time we don't 12 want any lighting. • 13 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Well, I see in the 14 written proposal here that it says there will be races 15 between 5:00 and 8:00 p.m, on Thursdays. 16 MARVIN LIGHT: That would only be in the 17 summertime when the time is allowed and kids aren't in 18 school. I mean, it's just something for them to do in the 19 evenings throughout the week. 20 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: So the PA would be 21 going on Thursday evenings also in the summertime? 22 MARVIN LIGHT: What's that? 23 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Your PA system? 24 MARVIN LIGHT: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: And then what about GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 128 • 1 Wednesdays on the practice day? Is that a day that you 2 would have the PA system? 3 MARVIN LIGHT: No. There won't be any PA 4 system on Wednesdays. 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Johnson? 6 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, I have 7 a question of, I guess, the parks folks. Have you looked 8 and talked with the people at the environmental center to 9 be sure that this will have no impact on the environmental 10 center and the wildlife and the birds that people go there 11 to see? 12 KIM ROGERS: Not in that manner. I have • 13 talked to Hal Brown, which is the head of the environmental 14 study center, and we've discussed -- he was concerned about 15 bikes on this trail or city property, and what I've talked 16 to Marvin about -- and I used to ride BMX bicycles too. 17 It's almost impossible to get -- even as an adult on a BMX 18 bike to ride across the grass to get to the Two Turtles 19 Creek Trail. We did not talk about any other impacts. 20 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Bikes would be pro - 21 hibited, though, from the environmental center's trails? 22 KIM ROGERS: We could put up signage, or Hal 23 Brown can. We can work with him on that. 24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, my main 25 concern is the balancing act between the needs for children GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 129 • 1 to be able to bicycle in parks versus the environmental 2 center, and I guess that if we're persuaded that this 3 really has no effect, and it seems to me, perhaps, it 4 wouldn't, given the distance, then it seems to be something 5 we probably should consider. 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think it will have some 7 impact, just like the homes that were built out there, just 8 like the softball fields. Everything is going to have an 9 impact on it but I think it will be minimal. 10 I have a question of staff. I had the great 11 displeasure of being on the city council when we made a 12 horrendous mistake and authorized the use of a -- some type • 13 of sewage facility plant out there, which fortunately was 14 later corrected by the mayor, and the problem that we had 15 is that we did not go through the parks board at that time. 16 Also at that time -- it was a lot longer than six years 17 ago. There was some period of time set aside for a portion 18 of the lake that would not be disturbed, and what -- if you 19 could, refresh my memory on what that portion of the lake 20 was. 21 KIM ROGERS: That's Resolution 34-73. That 22 was resolved on the 17th day of April. That is for -- 23 let's see. A 50 -year on the eastern portion of the nature 24 -- where the nature study center is. 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: But this does not infringe GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 130 I• 11 • 1 upon that portion -- 2 KIM ROGERS: Not at all. 3 CHAIRMAN ODOM: -- that is supposed to 4 remain pristine and undisturbed? 5 KIM ROGERS: Not at all. 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I didn't want to make that 7 same mistake twice. 8 KIM ROGERS: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Mr. Chairman? 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. Commissioner Hoffman, 11 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I have a couple of 12 questions. My first question, and I think we've covered 13 this at agenda session, but I'd like to get it out in the 14 open, is that if this enterprise were to fail, what would 15 then happen to the area, if this enterprise did not sur - 16 vive? 17 KIM ROGERS: We're looking at developing 18 this area. So we would take into -- at one time this was 19 proposed to be a softball field, softball complex. 20 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Okay, but in the 21 terms of their lease, can you refresh my memory on how long 22 this lease is for? 23 KIM ROGERS: Five years. 24 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Okay.. At the end of 25 five years what then would happen to that land? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 131 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KIM ROGERS: We could either re -lease it to them if we were -- unsatisfied, they would -- probably the terms of the lease would be that they would return it back to its natural state. COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: That's what I thought, and it seems to me that -- also, is it possible for the parks to have to monitor the runoff? And I would then think the planning commission could make a condition of approval some sort of remedial action to be taken if, in fact, that track is starting to run off and silt up the lake. We could add a berm at some point and -- KIM ROGERS: Or French drainage. COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: French drainage or a sedimentation pond even, or something like that. KIM ROGERS: Or silt fencing. COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Uh-huh. about -- KIM ROGERS: I have talked to Jim Beavers COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Silt fencing? I I would not be in favor of It's unsightly. KIM ROGERS: During construction though it may be necessary, as my conversation with Jim Beavers. COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Well, my feeling is, my personal feeling is that we can take adequate safeguards because of the small area of this site, and we definitely GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 132 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 need more recreational facilities for children in Fayetteville. So I will be voting in favor of a motion. COMMISSIONER WARD: Mr, Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, Commissioner Ward. COMMISSIONER WARD: I'd like to address this either to Kim or Brenda. What would be considered the next best site for this bike park? Did you all come up with another solution of any kind out of the thousands of acres we have? BRENDA THIEL: There really wasn't. We really looked at a site -- we had some land in the Indus- trial Park. dresses. KIM ROGERS: That's what that letter ad- BRENDA THIEL: That's all been covered. That was probably our, you know, Number 2 site, but then that was in the floodplain, floodway. COMMISSIONER WARD: Is there any other site on Lake Fayetteville -- we've got 650 acres there. Is there any other site? BRENDA THIEL: This was the best site, though, for it on Lake Fayetteville, as far as disturb- ing -- KIM ROGERS: There was one other site that we looked at that is off of Lake Fayetteville off of High- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 133 I• • 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 way 265, and the reason that it was determined that it was unfeasible is because we'd have had -- well, I don't know how to say it. Demolish a lot of trees, a lot of brush. No parking. No water. No electricity. No rest room. Cost prohibitive. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Off of Highway 265? KIM ROGERS: Yes, and plus we want to keep that open -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: That's part of that land that's supposed to be left undisturbed. of the land. KIM ROGERS: No. This is a different part CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. KIM ROGERS: This is east of 265. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. KIM ROGERS: We probably will have different plans for this area. COMMISSIONER WARD: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Ward. COMMISSIONER WARD: You know, the parks and recreation board, you know, we have to use them as our authority on what they would highly recommend, and, you know, use their expertise, and I don't know that we can make everybody happy in this. My feeling is -- I really want to see this track somewhere. What I'd like to do is GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just go ahead and facilitate a motion and say that -- ask for approval of CU 99-5.00 for conditional use for the BMX park. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Subject to the conditions that - - COMMISSIONER WARD: Subject to all condi- tions of approval, and probably on Number 1, it's -- stat- ing the lights. Lighting and sound systems, and not to be used and -- I'm not sure exactly how to -- the sound system is something I'm really kind of worried about. If we allow it, I'm not sure how to put some kind of decibel level on that thing, whether it would be 25 decibels or something like that. I think 70 is way too high. KIM ROGERS: Oh, yeah. That's more like concerts and stuff. COMMISSIONER WARD: But I'm not expert enough to know what decibel could be used in that small of an area. When we're talking about less than an acre, it should be very -- KIM ROGERS: Minimum, COMMISSIONER WARD: The minimum, but anyway, with all staff recommendations and if somebody else on the planning commission has a better idea of what kind of decibel level to allow -- KIM ROGERS: The ABA Association also recom- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 135 I• • CI 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mends like a 20 amp from Radio Shack which is around $100.00. I mean, I don't think it's a real -- if it's a $100.00, I don't foresee it being real loud. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, it doesn't have to be loud to be obtrusive. RIM ROGERS: Right. I think that they will be really -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think you could spend more money for a better system so it doesn't get to the lake. I think, perhaps, something incorporated in your motion, Commissioner Ward, with regard to the hours of use of any type of amplifying device might be appropriate. COMMISSIONER WARD: I would say that the -- probably -- you're talking about Thursday night and maybe Saturday and Sunday strictly would be the time for the use of the sound system? MARVIN LIGHT: It would be Thursday and Sundays, and that would be just Thursdays during the sum- mer. I mean, once the kids are back in school, there probably won't be any racing there during the week at all. COMMISSIONER WARD: I think some kind of decibel level would -- no more than 25? MARVIN LIGHT: Yeah. I mean, I just -- just loud enough for people at the track to hear it. Like I said, I don't want to blow anybody out. Just loud enough GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 136 1• • r 1 LJ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so people can hear what's going on and enjoy it. COMMISSIONER WARD: Also in Number 6 we've talked about bleachers and an observation stand and a maintenance shed shall meet the approval of the planning commission. We have all those items in front of us. You know, my feeling is that it looks like the observation stand is 15 feet by 7 feet. It looks like a treehouse basically. MARVIN LIGHT: The picture is real rough. We couldn't really come up with anything. I mean, it's going to look nice. The bottom is going to be enclosed. That's where the rakes and stuff will be kept, inside that area. So it's just going to be one tower and the storage unit is all going to be in one. It's not going to be two separate buildings. Basically the announcement stand is going to be on top of the storage unit. So it's a nice confined unit. CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. We have a motion on the table. Do we have a second? second. COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion and a COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, Commissioner Forney, COMMISSIONER FORNEY: I have a couple of GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 137 • 1 questions. One, I'd still like to hear about the issue of 2 bikes on Lake Fayetteville trails generally. Are there any 3 trails existing at Lake Fayetteville where it is permissi- 4 ble to ride a mountain bike or a BMX bike or what have you? 5 KIM ROGERS: Well, I'm not real sure but I 6 do know that the bicycle officers do ride down from Veter- 7 ans Memorial Park a ways. 8 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Through the park? 9 KIM ROGERS: Yes, through the park. 10 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: So as far as you're 11 aware, there is no restriction of using bicycles on those 12 trails? • 13 KIM ROGERS: No. There is of motorbikes. 14 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Okay. The other 15 question concerns -- in the staff report there is a de - 16 scription of the competitive nature of BMX and that in some 17 instances there are races in which there are more than 2 or 18 3,000 spectators who come to participate in the event. 19 Would this track be used for similar events? Would that be 20 one of your goals? 21 MARVIN LIGHT: I don't believe so. The 22 track -- I mean, it's going to be small. Most national 23 caliber tracks are much longer and have much bigger areas 24 to keep people there. Like the race that was mentioned at 25 The Grands in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's an indoor facility. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 138 • 1 That's at Expo Square. They built that indoors just for 2 this event. So, I mean, there's plenty of parking there, 3 and then after the weekend is over they just tear it down. 4 Most -- there is very, very few tracks that could hold a 5 national race. I mean, it's just -- it's a much, much 6 bigger area than what we're going to have. 7 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Is there a length that 8 is typically used in a national race? 9 MARVIN LIGHT: Usually your national races 10 are 12 to 1300 feet long. 11 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: How long will this 12 track be? • 13 MARVIN LIGHT: This track is probably going 14 to fall anywhere between 850 and 1,000 feet. 15 KIM ROGERS: That's winding around 275 feet. 16 MARVIN LIGHT: It's going to be shaped like 17 an M. 18 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Just to the commis - 19 sion, I'm concerned about -- and let me say that I certain - 20 ly support the idea of this kind of facility, but I am con - 21 cerned about the proliferation of bikes on the trails in 22 the park. Now, that may not be a problem in the eyes of 23 the park board. In which case, maybe I needn't be con - 24 cerned, but I know that typically bikes and pedestrian 25 trails can be a conflict. The other concern I would have GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 139 I• • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 if this were to move ahead, I would encourage us to limit, in some fashion, the number of spectators allowed for a competitive event. So I think we have to set an upper limit on how many people we try to park in this area. I'm concerned that in a competition we're going to have over- flow situations that could have an impact beyond the park. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Would you like to offer an amendment? COMMISSIONER FORNEY: I'll try to think of one. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. MARVIN LIGHT: The mountain bikes -- the BMX bike has a much smaller wheel. It's a 20 -inch wheel, where a mountain bike has a 26 -inch wheel. So it makes it easier for a mountain bike to roll over the grass and such. A BMX bike, they do not roll very well in the grass. I mean, that's why these tracks are built on a smooth dirt surface, because of the low rolling resistance. COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman? Just in response to that. I would assume that when the track is open to the public, that if I had a mountain bike I could go and use it, that I could get on the track and ride on a mountain bike? Is that correct? MARVIN LIGHT: Yeah, COMMISSIONER FORNEY: So I think that there GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 140 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 will be a larger number of mountain bikes that would be going to the park using that facility and then having the idea that it would be fun to ride around the lake, and as I understand, there is no limit on that kind of activity in our regulations. KIM ROGERS: We can work with Hal Brown or the other entities out there that have lease agreements through us, and we can work on that together. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Johnson, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have a substitute motion. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Number 1 -- CHAIRMAN ODOM: You have a substitute motion or an amendment to the motion? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It's a substitute motion. CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Condition Number 1 would read: Lighting and sound systems are not to be used for the track. Condition Number 2 would be as printed in our materials. Condition Number 3 would have added at the end "and any erosion created by the track will be con- trolled to the satisfaction of the parks department." GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 141 I• 40 1 Condition Number 4 would be deleted. Condition Number 5 2 would be in place as printed in our materials. Condition 3 Number 6, the observation stand slash maintenance shed 4 shall comply with the pictures submitted to the planning 5 commission. Condition Number 7 would be -- well, actually 6 I guess it could replace Number 4, which was deleted, and 7 so this is a new condition to be substituted for 4. BMX 8 bikes would be prohibited from using the environmental 9 center trails. The cost of necessary signage would be paid 10 by the applicant. it MARVIN LIGHT: With the Number 1, back to 12 the PA system. If we don't have a PA system -- I mean, 13 you're basically going to have somebody standing in a tower 14 yelling at the top of their voice which, to me, that's 15 going to be much louder than a PA system. I mean, because 16 it's going to be -- 17 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think you 18 need to see whether or not the motion gets a second. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion for a sub - 20 stituted motion. Do we have a second? 21 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: I'll second it. 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a second to the 23 substituted motion. 24 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, speak - 25 ing to the sound system, it just seems to me that if a park GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 142 • 1 has the kind of activities that this one does that pulls 2 all the public in at this time for the ballgames, and if 3 they can do all that without a sound system, surely to 4 goodness you can have bicycles racing without a sound 5 system. I think it not only would affect the neighbors, 6 but I think it would affect the fishermen. So it just 7 seems to me that it's a compromise that is not unreason - 8 able. That it would make it much more feasible to go in a 9 setting like this, and so that's the reason for that point. 10 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Mr. Chairman? it CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner, 12 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Just a point of • 13 observation on the sound system. I've attended horse shows 14 and they have portable speaking devices. Horses generally 15 shy at loud noises, but you need to hear the results of 16 things that are going on, and they have the little black 17 boxes that have microphones, and I doubt seriously that 18 they could be heard from the property line and from the 19 lake, and I would offer that. You might be able to put 20 something in your motion that would indicate that if com- 21 plaints are received, that all PA activity would have to 22 stop or that no more amplification would be permitted, 23 because I think that there really is something technologi- 24 cally available that's not a very loud device. So I might 25 offer a friendly amendment to your motion to allow a low- . GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 143 I• • n 1 level PA device would be used. 2 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What about language 3 like this: Lighting shall not be used for the track. 4 Sound systems shall not be heard on the lake or off the 5 site. Perhaps I should say off the park property. 6 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Off the property. I 7 am concerned about the effect on the neighborhood across 8 the street and I think that you can quite possibly manage 9 not to have this heard over there. 10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'd accept that as a 11 friendly amendment. 12 CHAIRMAN ODOM: How about limiting the hours 13 to use this as well? 14 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The sound system 15 shall only be used on Thursdays from -- what are the hours? 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: 5:00 to 8:00. 17 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. and 18 Sundays from -- what are the hours? 19 MARVIN LIGHT: 3:00 to 7:00. 20 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: 3:00 to 7:00 p.m. 21 MARVIN LIGHT: 3:00 to 6:00. 22 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Excuse me? 23 MARVIN LIGHT: I believe its says 3:00 to 24 8:00. 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, it says 2:00 to 6:00 GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 144 • 1 on the application. 2 MARVIN LIGHT: Really the PA system would 3 only be used during the races. I would say from 3:00 to 4 8:00. 5 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: On what day? 6 MARVIN LIGHT: On Sundays. 7 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: All right. Sound 8 system shall only be used on Thursdays from 5:00 to 8:00 9 p.m. and Sundays from 3:00 to 8:00 p.m, and shall not be 10 heard on the lake or off the park property, and that would 11 be a friendly amendment which would be acceptable. 12 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Go ahead. 13 MARVIN LIGHT: I mean, I just don't want it 14 to be to the point where -- you know, if they hear one 15 word, I don't want them to call and go, "Hey, I heard it." 16 I mean, it's -- if the wind is blowing toward their houses, 17 I mean, you can talk in that field without a PA system and 18 they're going to hear you talk. 19 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, in that event 20 maybe you don't need a PA system. 21 MARVIN LIGHT: I'm just saying on a windy 22 day. 23 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It just seems to me 24 that this is a unique park. It is our nature park and it 25 seems to me there ought to be some place that people can go GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 145 • 1 to a park and not have to listen to somebody else's ampli- 2 fied noise. It just seems right. 3 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Any further discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, Mr, Estes. 6 COMMISSIONER ESTES: A member of the audi- 7 ence passed me two questions which I'll offer to the chair. 8 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You can read them. 9 VANCE ARNOLD: Can I rephrase the questions? 10 We just scribbled those down. 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Why don't you? 12 VANCE ARNOLD: The issue was -- Rim and I • 13 talked about it. The property on 265 was about the parking 14 facilities and the rest room facilities. In ABA's own 15 information, they suggest porta-potties. When I built the 16 baseball field at Fayetteville High School without any 17 money and only community support, and we got over 18 $200,000.00, you know, through the field. We lived with 19 porta-pots and the superintendent of the schools used 20 porta-pots down there just like everyone else. So that 21 could be a solution, because they're only asking for like 22 four months out of the year, or a five month season. It's 23 not that long. So porta-pots, I think, cost $60.00 apiece 24 a month, and you have a men and women's and that's 120. I 25 know I'm answering my own question -- I can tell by the way GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 146 • 1 you're looking at me. They've already -- parks has already 2 come in since December and added huge amounts of gravel. 3 We just thought they were improving the park. I think they 4 were planning on getting this and putting a gate up or a 5 bridge up so bikes could get in and out. So if they did 6 those things -- the same things at 265 way back in the 7 corner and it would be away from the residential areas, and 8 when Kim and I talked, those were her two big arguments 9 against that area, was rest rooms would cost way too much 10 for this group to do and way too much for the other group 11 to keep doing things. Well, they're not investing very 12 much of their own money or time and want parks and everyone • 13 else to perform, and I will work and help them raise the 14 money to do it, and I'll go out there and rake and dig it 15 with them, but I think that's a solution -- would be a 16 solution. Thank you. I'm sorry. That was the question. 17 Can we consider that location also, because it's on a hill? 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Go ahead, Kim. 19 KIM ROGERS: Okay. Again, if we did provide 20 parking out there, according to planning, we would have to 21 pave that parking. Any new parking in Fayetteville has to 22 be paved. 23 MS. LITTLE: That's not according to plan - 24 ning. That's a city ordinance. 25 KIM ROGERS: City ordinance. Parking lots. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 147 i• • 1 That would be cost prohibitive. Also, tearing down trees 2 is not something that we want to start doing. There's a 3 lot of trees off of Highway 265. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. We're not going 5 to debate this anymore. 6 KIM ROGERS: No trees are being torn down in 7 this area. 8 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I'm going to use my divine 9 revelation rule. Unless some member has a divine revela- 10 tion that's going to shed some new light on this subject, 11 it's time to vote. Hearing none, I'll ask that you call 12 the roll. 13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: A question. Is this 14 on the substitute? 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: On the substituted motion 16 with the friendly amendment. 17 (A member of the audience said, "It needs to be re - 18 stated.") 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Which needs to be restated 20 probably. 21 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: I'll second the 22 amendment. 23 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I will ask -- for clarifica- 24 tion of the record, if you would, please restate your mo - 25 tion. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 148 • 1 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: All right. Number 1, 2 would read, Lighting systems are not to be used for the 3 track. Sound systems shall only be used on Thursday from 4 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. and Sunday from 3:00 to 8:00 p.m. and 5 shall not be heard on the lake or off the park property. 6 Two remains as is. Three has this language added at the 7 end: And any erosion created by the track will be con - 8 trolled to the satisfaction of the parks department. Four 9 as it exists is deleted. In lieu of that language we would 10 add this language: BMX bikes would be prohibited from 11 using the environmental center trails. The cost of neces- 12 sary signage would be paid by the applicant. Five would • 13 remain as is. Six would read: The observation stand slash 14 maintenance shed shall comply with the picture submitted to 15 the planning commission. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Call the roll. 17 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 18 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. 19 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 20 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes, 21 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 22 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes. 23 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 24 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 25 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 149 1 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: No, 2 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 3 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes. 4 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 5 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes, 6 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? 7 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes. 8 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 9 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Motion carries on a vote of 11 8 to 1. Thank you all for being here. 12 The next item that we have on tonight's • 13 agenda is another conditional use. 14 WAYNE KRUG: Mr. Chairman, before we move 15 on, I'd like to ask for the indulgence of the commission 16 and of the parks department that someone -- and I would be 17 willing to serve in that capacity, but that someone be 18 named a designated representative for purpose of being 19 served with notice if there are going to be additional 20 changes or improvements -- 21 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think that it's your job 22 as a lawyer to find that information out, and you can do 23 that on your own dime and not ours. 24 Let's move on to the next item. This is a 25 conditional use, Suzie Stephens, submitted by Suzie GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 150 i• 11 E 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Stephens, of Nibbles Catering, for property located at 3290 North Lee Avenue. The property is zoned R -O, residential office, and contains approximately 0.39 acres. The request is for a restaurant. The staff's recommendation is approv- al of the request based upon the findings included as a part of this report and subject to the planning commission making the findings required by 163.02 and the following conditions: Item Number 1, the dumpster shall have screening on three sides and a concrete pad as required by the city ordinance in coordination with the solid waste division. Item Number 2, landscaping shall be provided around parking areas as required by the city ordinance and in coordination with the landscape administrator. Item Number 3, the parking lot shall meet all requirements of the city ordinance for parking lots. Item Number 4, the proposed foyer entry on the south side and west corner of the facility shall use materials to match the front or west side of the existing building. Metal siding on the south side of the building must be bricked. All other additions must be approved by the planning commission. Item Number 5, improvements shall be made to Lee Avenue including repaving and applying curb and gutter GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 151 i• n U • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to the east side of the street. Item Number 6, maintenance shall be provided to the existing screening fence to the east and north of the properties. And Item Number 7, the new office facility shall meet requirements of the city inspection division. Staff, are there any further conditions of approval? MR. VINSON: No, air, but I do have a re- placement for the last three pages, Pages 8.6, 8.7 and 8.8. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you. I will bring now the floor to the applicant, and ask you to identify your- self for the record. SUZIE STEPHENS: My name is Suzie Stephens, CHAIRMAN ODOM: Ms. Stephens, let me ask you if there are items on the -- do you have a presentation or do you have particular items on the conditions of approval that you would like to discuss? SUZIE STEPHENS: lem with Items 1, 21 6, and 7. CHAIRMAN ODOM: discuss Items 3, 4, and 5? SUZIE STEPHENS: I have absolutely no prob- Okay. You would like to Yea, air. CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. Item Number 3 is that the parking lot shall meet all requirements of the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 152 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r 1 U city ordinance for parking lots. What would you like to present? SUZIE STEPHENS: Well, I have seven existing parking places. At my office next door I have approximate- ly six existing parking places. Now, if you're familiar with the area, when you look to the west of my building, I see an expanse of concrete that Auto Magic has just put in, and to the north of me are 400 concrete parking spaces. If I absolutely have to add four more parking spaces to meet city ordinance, I would like to put in four pavers, which would show grass in between and not have to put a whole expanse of concrete. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Staff, do you have any problem with that? MS. LITTLE: No. That would be fine. CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. Item Number 4, The proposed foyer entry on the south side and west corner of the facility shall use materials to match the front or west side of the existing building. Do you have any prob- lem with that portion of Number 4? SUZIE STEPHENS: Absolutely not. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Metal siding on the south side of the building must be bricked. SUZIE STEPHENS: That I have a problem with because after I put the proposed foyer in, you will not GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 153 • 1 really be able to see the metal siding from the street, and 2 there will be brick and Drivet and stucco and I will make 3 it very architecturally correct to fit with the building. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: So once you have put the 5 entry that is discussed at the first part of Item 4, you 6 will not be able to see the remaining south side of the 7 existing building? 8 SUZIE STEPHENS: Not with any landscaping 9 that is already existing. Unfortunately it's wintertime 10 and you can't see it right now. 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Let's see. The other item 12 was Item Number -- what? • 13 SUZIE STEPHENS: Five. 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Five. Improvements shall be 15 made to Lee Avenue including repaving and applying curb and 16 guttering to the east side of the street. 17 SUZIE STEPHENS: In October when I moved my 18 retail store out of 3290 North Lee into 3184 North College, 19 at that time the city was resurfacing that street on the 20 east side. So now all I'd like to know is, what responsi- 21 bility do you feel that I have? According to this, it says 22 Lee Avenue. Well, that goes all the way down to the fire 23 station. Do you really believe that I'm responsible for 24 that? 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, actually, I think we • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 154 • 1 require applicants to make improvements to their street 2 that they are improving on. I don't think that we're -- 3 staff, do you want to comment on that? Is it just the 4 portion of the property that she is improving? 5 MS. LITTLE: Just her frontage. It looks 6 like 115.8 feet. 7 SUZIE STEPHENS: Well, since Auto Magic was 8 required to put in curb and guttering and they had to put 9 sidewalk on their side, I would be more than happy to put 10 curb and guttering on my side, since it has been resurfaced 11 already. 12 MS. LITTLE: I've been corrected. Apparent - 13 ly the -- 14 MR. VINSON: Her property goes all the way 15 to Bertha Street to the south. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: To what street? 17 MR. VINSON: Bertha Street, which is -- you 18 can look on your map. It's just south of -- there is an 19 intersection at Lee and Bertha. That's where her property 20 ends. Her property goes from Bertha Street all the way to 21 Liquor World. Both of those lots. 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think we're just talking 23 about the improvement of one portion of her property. Is 24 that correct? 25 MR. VINSON: I was actually talking about • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 155 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the whole road from -- in front of her whole property. The part where the restaurant is and the part where the new office is, but that's up to the planning commission to decide where they would like her to repave. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Staff, if an applicant is typically improving just one portion of their property, do you require them to improve the entire tract of property that they own, or just the portion that they are -- MS* LITTLE: Generally just the portion that they're undertaking development on, and the reason that the other building is involved is that the office space will be moved into the other building. So we don't quite know all of the improvements that will be made there. The inspec- tions division is going to have to be in charge of that, but the the portion of the house that used to be a day care will also be used. It's going to become the office for the restaurant and other businesses. tion for you? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Did that answer that ques- SUZIE STEPHENS: Not really. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Well, I think that the staff is commenting that they're not requiring that you make improvements all the way down Lee Avenue. Only along the portion of the property that you own. Does that answer your question? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 156 • 1 SUZIE STEPHENS: That answers my question. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Now, apparently, staff -- 3 and you can verify this -- apparently the road has already 4 been repaved. 5 MS. LITTLE: I was unaware of that. I was 6 aware that we did require on the opposite side of the 7 street the addition to the car wash facility to pave their 8 portion. 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: If this portion has already 10 been paved, we're not going to make her repave it, are we? 11 MR. VINSON: The car wash was required to 12 put concrete curb and gutter. • 13 MS. LITTLE: That's the difference. The 14 east side of the street is not curbed and guttered. 15 CHAIRMAN ODOM: So the only thing that's 16 left remaining is curb and guttering? 17 MS. LITTLE: It would be up to engineering 18 to bring it up to city standards. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. What I'd like to 20 do now is ask if there is any member of the audience that 21 would like to address us on this request. Come forward. 22 JANET GALLMAN: Hi. I'm back. I'm Janet 23 Gallman. I'm kind of a kitter-cornered neighbor to Suzie, 24 and I do want to say in her behalf that she's been a really 25 good neighbor out there. Of course, this inures to my • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 157 • 1 property in the event that it may become commercial at some 2 point. My only concern addresses the curb and gutter issue 3 because Lee Avenue has been finally improved and that drag 4 strip of north Fayetteville that the city refused to recog- 5 nize for years and years as being a city road has been 6 paved through the efforts of Suzie and the Kizers that own 7 the Auto Magic Lube Center or whatever, but I would like to 8 see some curb and gutter all the way down that section of 9 Lee Avenue that involves both tracts of property that I 10 believe Suzie's corporation -- AIDC? 11 SUZIE STEPHENS: AICD. 12 JANET GALLMAN: AICD. I know what it stands • 13 for but we won't tell them, Suzie. I would like to see 14 that maybe that be considered in just improving the looks 15 there, and I'm not certain I understand what you mean by 16 "pavers," and it -- for the additional four parking spaces. 17 Could somebody help me with that so I understand where or 18 what we're talking about? 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: It's an option that we have 20 with regard to parking. Staff, do you want to try to 21 explain the concept of pavers? 22 JANET GALLMAN: I mean, just where it's 23 going to be generally is all I want to know. If it's 24 fronting on Lee Avenue where they can pull up and park 25 right off the street or -- GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 158 • 1 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think it's in the front of 2 her building that's existing. 3 MS. LITTLE: No. There is a layout and the 4 -- the area for parking, it's like this. So it does not 5 back directly into the street. It is self contained to the 6 side. In between the two buildings. 7 JANET GALLMAN: Okay. I don't have a prob- 8 lem with that because I -- in terms of covering the metal 9 that's out there, she's doing Drivet or something that is 10 in good taste. None of us -- we're going to see it whether 11 the vegetation is there or not, from my viewpoint. I don't 12 have a problem with that because I trust her judgment on • 13 that. She's made that look really, really nice and she has 14 been a good neighbor, but I would like that you consider 15 that if we're going to do the curb and gutter, there's just 16 a little bitty strip there. There is quite an access -- I 17 mean, there is a big expanse of concrete driveway into the 18 office section, and it looks like there is just a small 19 spot from the edge of the driveway south to where it rounds 20 the corner of Bertha and Lee and also between her two 21 properties, and I would just ask that you consider that 22 that be included, that we finally get curb and gutter all 23 the way down Lee Avenue but I'm not suggesting that Suzie 24 be responsible for across the street or down past her 25 property. That's just -- that would be totally unfair. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 159 K, • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It's just that little area there. I think it would neaten it up and clean it up and it would inure to the benefit of everybody in the neighborhood, and it might prevent some parking -- we've had some parking problems obviously when we had very big functions like the business after hours. I mean I had cars parked two deep in my front yard but I understand that's an exception, and once in a while I'm going to overlook it because I want businesses in this community to succeed and she's got a hard spot there to try to do it and I want to see her make it well there, because, after all, I'm going to take cooking lessons from the woman. Thank you. CHAIRMAN ODOM., Thank you, Ms. Gallman. Would any other member of the audience like to address us on this request? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the applicant to come back for questions and comments or mo- tions of the planning commissioners. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have a question, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner. Johnson, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Did I understand the applicant to say that she would rather not have to build all of the parking spaces that the staff is requiring, that you would like to build four fewer, if you had your d'ruthers? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 160 I• • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUZIE STEPHENS: Well, I think we proposed, to be honest with you, too many, and rather than do a con- crete expanse, if I could do the pavers to make my 17 parking places. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, would you prefer to do fewer than 17 if you could? SUZIE STEPHENS: I really would just because of the way it would look. I mean, there's a lot of con- crete around there, but it's a city ordinance. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: If we have the power to delete some of these parking spaces, it seems to me that if the applicant is willing -- there is an awful lot of concrete and if she thinks that her patrons can walk a few feet from that large parking lot, then I say more power to her. I don't see that we gain anything by making her build more parking than she wants. COMMISSIONER WARD: So are we looking for her to build four fewer places? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I guess so. Does staff have a strong objection to letting her building four fewer parking spaces. MS. LITTLE: I don't know that staff has an objection. I just think that the parking ordinance -- it's in a zoning code -- gives the planning commission the au- thority to waive the number of off-street parking spaces GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 161 • I required in C-3 and C-4 districts. So you don't have the 2 authority to waive the number of off-street parking spaces 3 required in the R -O district, which is what this is. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You know, I think we'd 5 better be careful here because this is relatively close to 6 a residential area and I think we need to remember that 7 when we're talking about potentially waiving parking spac- 8 es. 9 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Is shared parking an 10 option in this instance? 11 MS. LITTLE: Yes. I think that shared 12 parking is an option. "Shared parking. Formal arrange - 13 ments which share parking between intermittent uses with 14 non -conflicting parking demands such as a church and a bank 15 are encouraged as a means to reduce the amount of parking 16 required." So if we could get a shared parking agreement 17 with something that is near her, then we could consider 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: So if Auto Magic 20 closes in the evening, that would be a possible solution to 21 where you could get permission to use those spaces? 22 MS. LITTLE: Right. It does go on, "Such 23 arrangements are subject to the approval of the planning 24 commission, and individual spaces identified on a site plan 25 for shared users shall not be shared by more than one user • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 162 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at a time." So if shared parking is going to be proposed, I think you have to have a little bit more information than you have in front of you right now. MR. VINSON: I need to let the planning commissioners know that she has proposed 20 on the site plan that's provided, and she's only required to have 17 spaces. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that. MS. LITTLE: That's on Page 8.12, MR. VINSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: So how many spaces do you want to build? SUZIE STEPHENS: As few as possible but if I'm required to have 17, then what I would propose to you to let me put pavers down rather than pouring immense slabs of concrete, so at least some grass can be exposed. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, if the commis- sion feels that people wouldn't have enough room to park and they would park in the residential neighborhood, I certainly don't favor that. If people think that they might park in the large area there just to the north, I would be in favor of that. COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr, Chairman? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Forney. COMMISSIONER FORNEY: I would assume from GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 163 I• 0 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the applicant's statements that she would build no more than 17. As I understand it, on our site plan, 8.12, parking lot or parking spaces 8 through 17 are new parking spaces and from what I've heard, those could be done with pavers to the satisfaction of our staff. I think that would be excellent. I would also propose -- obviously we can't grant shared parking tonight but as I understand it, if the applicant could get an agreement with one of the adjoining uses for shared parking, then none of those would have to be accomplished, but we can't grant you that unless you go get that shared parking agreement. So it's up to you to pursue that, but I think the entire commission would just as soon not see more ground covered with asphalt or concrete. SUZIE STEPHENS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN ODOM: I'm going to move for ap- proval of Conditional Use 99-3.00 with the following condi- tions of approval. Items Number 1 and 2 as they currently are stated. Item Number 3 will read "Absent a shared parking agreement to be submitted at a later date to the planning staff. The parking lot shall meet all require- ments of the city ordinance for parking lots, and any addi- tional parking spaces may be constructed using concrete pavers." Item Number 4 will read "The proposed foyer entry on the south side and west corner of the facility shall use GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 164 I• • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 materials to match the front or west side of the existing building." Strike the language "Metal siding on the south side of the building must be bricked." Continue with "All other additions must be approved by the planning commission." Item Number 5 will state, "Improvements shall be made to Lee Avenue including" -- well, I don't want to require her to repave something. "Improvements shall be made to Lee Avenue along the applicant's property bound- aries" -- COMMISSIONER WARD: Are you talking about both properties? CHAIRMAN ODOM: Actually, no, I'm just talking about the property that is being improved. "Im- provements shall be made to Lee Avenue along the applicant's property boundaries that are being improved as a part of this conditional use to include any repaving required by the city staff and applying curb and gutter onto the east side of the street along that property line." Items 6 and 7 will remain. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Second. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Motion has a second. have any further discussion? Call the roll. MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes, MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 Do we 165 • 1 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes, 2 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 3 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes. 4 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 5 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 6 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 7 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 8 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 9 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes. 10 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 11 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes, 12 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? • 13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, 14 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 15 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: The motion carries unani- 17 mously. I hope you understood the motion. 18 SUZIE STEPHENS: I think I did. Thank you 19 very much. 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: The next item on tonight's 21 agenda is Item Number 9, conditional use submitted by Alice 22 Butler and Janna Holmes for property located at 401 Watson 23 Street. The property is zoned C-3, central commercial, and 24 contains approximately 0.43 acres. The request is for a 25 dance hall. The staff's recommendation is approval of the GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 166 I• • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 request based on the findings included as a part of this report and subject to the planning commission making the findings as required by 163.02 and the following condi- tions: Item Number 1, all activities are to be limited to the inside of the building, the dance hall facility must comply with the city's sound ordinance. Item Number 2, three -- bouncers? ALICE BUTLER: You can call it security. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Three security bounc- ers and three door checkers are to be stationed at all times during the hours of operation to ensure that alcohol- ic beverages do not enter the facility. Item Number 3, any changes or expansions to the facility will require planning commission approval. Item Number 4, all fire inspection requirements must be met prior to building occupancy. Staff, are there any further conditions of approval? MR. VINSON: No, sir. The applicants have signed the conditions of approval. CHAIRMAN ODOM: Fantastic. Do you have any presentation that you would like to make? ALICE BUTLER: Not particularly. We just want to start off to say that we feel that this is a good idea because more than 75 percent of the university is under 21, and really there is not much to do. So that's why we're submitting this request for conditional use to GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 167 • 1 you. 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You've got a BMX track you 3 can go ride on now. Would any member of the audience like 4 to address us on this request? 5 JOE FENNEL: My name is Joe Fennel and I 6 operate Jose's down on Dickson Street. I've been down 7 there for a number of years and have watched a lot of 8 things come and go. My concern -- one of my concerns is 9 the congestion that already is part of Dickson Street, 10 I've been before this commission before on parking and you 11 guys have granted me conditional waivers and everything 12 else, but we do have a major problem, and I've got a prob- • 13 lem with the major congestion that goes on Friday and 14 Saturday night. A dance hall is going to operate on Friday 15 and Saturday night. It's not going to operate on Monday or 16 Tuesday. I was in the club business 18 years ago and was 17 in the club business for 10 years. When you're in the club 18 business, you make your money on two nights a week, and 19 it's not Monday and Tuesday. It's Friday and Saturday. If 20 you've been to Dickson Street you've noticed the congestion 21 on Fridays and Saturdays. It's pretty much a nightmare. 22 If you don't believe it, talk to my customers. 23 I've got a problem with mixing minors and 24 adults. That's an adult entertainment district. If you 25 look at the businesses that operate down there, they are GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 168 • 1 adult oriented. We've gone through a major year of dealing 2 with minors and alcohol on Dickson Street. I've been in 3 the business 18 years in this city and it's never been as 4 bad as it has been the last year. I think it's -- it 5 doesn't make any sense to me to bring minors into a situa- 6 tion and encourage minors into a situation where we already 7 have a bomb that goes off every night. I served on the 8 alcohol commission with the university and the city and, 9 yes, we've got a problem. There's not a place for minors 10 to spend time, but I'm also aware of this location. This 11 location over the last two years has been rented out for 12 private parties over a numerous amount of times. I've made • 13 probably a dozen phone calls personally to the chief of 14 police to monitor the situation, and it may seem okay to 15 not allow alcohol into the building, but I can assure you 16 that alcohol will be consumed in the parking lots. We've 17 all been 18 years old before in our lives, and we know how 18 18 year old people operate. It concerns me to mix these 19 two groups of people together and really encourage it to 20 happen. 21 I think the idea the girls have is great. I 22 just think Dickson Street is the wrong place for it. I 23 know it is close to the university, but there's five or six 24 clubs that used to be private clubs that are no longer 25 private clubs because they catered to the minors in this GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 169 • 1 city and now they're sitting empty. It would seem to me 2 that there would be a number of those clubs that would be 3 willing to house this project who already have dance floors 4 built. They already have sound systems in place. They're 5 sitting vacant right now. So as an entrepreneur that is in 6 this area, my concern is mixing the minors and the adults 7 and adding to the congestion that's already down there. 8 Other than that, I think the girls have a great project. I 9 just think it's in the wrong location. Thank you. 10 ROBERT REYNOLDS: Good evening. I'm Robert 11 Reynolds and a property owner on Dickson Street. I'm not 12 going to reiterate what Joe said but we have the Brew Pub. • 13 We have Chester's, Roger's Rec, Art's Place, Doe's, Nick's, 14 Jose's, Bordino's, and the Thirty -Six Club right there in 15 that block which is alcohol related clubs. I just think 16 that it would be bad to put this in the middle of that and 17 expect all of us to baby-sit for the minors when we're 18 having a hard time with the police department now. The 19 parking thing we'll have to face later, but right now I 20 just don't think that this needs to be there. 21 Joe Fennel and I are the only two people 22 down there that go out in that parking lot every day and 23 clean the trash up. He failed to mention that. The city 24 doesn't pick it up. Nobody picks it up but him and I. and 25 we keep that lot nice. When they had those parties down • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 170 • 1 there out behind at Shuler Town, they put porta-potties out 2 in the parking lot so the people could have their parties 3 in there. They don't have rest rooms in there, and they're 4 going to have to add those if they get their way, but I 5 think they can go to another skirt of the city and put in a 6 non-alcoholic club so the people -- the nine bars that are 7 down there don't have to police it, and I'd appreciate your 8 thoughts. 9 JOHN FIRMIN: My name is John Firmin. I own 10 a house on Rollston Street which is right behind the pro - 11 posed place, and I've seen where they have the alcohol -free 12 parties and things like that, and in the past it -- Basi -13 cally there is trash out there from probably six to nine 14 months ago that no one picks up from those kind of parties, 15 and, you know, when I walk out there in the morning when I 16 walk my dog, I see beer bottles and things like that. 17 People drinking in the parking lot, and so those are some 18 of my concerns that I have for something like that. So I 19 hate to see something -- plus the late hours of 2:00 20 o'clock in the morning. 21 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, John. 22 TOM PEARSON: Okay. I would like to re - 23 spond. I'm Tom Pearson, the owner of the property that's 24 in question tonight. Frankly, ladies and gentlemen, some 25 of the objections that have been made to the past utili- • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 171 • 1 zation of this property I'm sure have some merit. It's 2 important to me that I have some revenue from the building. 3 I have from time to time rented it to private parties. For 4 the most part, these private parties operate properly and 5 correctly, but -- and I have a written agreement with them 6 that ties them up very tightly, but there have been occa- 7 sions when they have exceeded the bounds of propriety. 8 This type of thing would be avoided by having a permanent 9 tenant who could be supervised and guided. I've very 10 pleased and encouraged to see two young women such as this, 11 with the entrepreneurial spirit and the idea to try to put 12 in something for students between the ages of 18, 19, and • 13 20 years old. I daresay that probably at least two-thirds 14 of the students on campus fit in that category and they 15 have as much right to go to Dickson Street, or anywhere 16 else for that matter, as anybody does. 17 The primary objections that we hear from 18 Fennel, who has Jose's, and Mr. Reynolds, who has Roger's 19 Rec, are their concern -- really it boils down to their 20 concern about congestion and the parking. Now, this is 21 tantamount to me as saying I'd really appreciate it if you 22 gentlemen would close your businesses so I could have a 23 little more parking. It's simply not fair. The require - 24 ments for this building, there are no parking requirements. 25 The parking requirements are met. There are none. The • GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521.8060 172 • I question is moot, as I understand it. However, these girls 2 have gone one step farther and have received specific 3 encouragement and permission from the Baptist church to 4 park on their lot, and they inform me that they're going to 5 encourage their customers to do that. Do you have the let - 6 ter? With your permission, I'd like to offer this for the 7 board's consideration. Even though I don't think parking 8 is required, I think this alleviates any possible problem. 9 Now, listening to Swifty, or Mr. Reynolds, 10 speak, it seems like he doesn't want anybody in this area 11 under 21 because there are a bunch of bars there. There's 12 also a bunch of other businesses that have retail matters • 13 and food, and I see that they cater and welcome the busi- 14 ness from the 18, 19, and 20 year olds. In fact, on many 15 occasions, I believe I have seen people under 21 at Jose's. 16 I don't notice them running them out. These people have as 17 much right as anyone else to do business. I think they 18 have a great idea and I hope you will give them the consid- 19 eration that they're entitled to. Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Thank you, Mr. Pearson, 21 Would any other member of the audience like to address us 22 on this issue? Seeing none, I'll close the floor to public 23 discussion and bring it back to the applicants. If you all 24 will please approach for questions and comments or motions 25 from the planning commission. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 173 n 1 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Mr. Chairman? 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Hoffman. 3 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I have a question. 4 Are there any other clubs in Fayetteville that cater to 5 under age people? 6 ALICE BUTLER: Yes. There is another club 7 by the name of L.J.'s. They do serve alcohol. On occa- 8 sion, which I believe it's every other Saturday night, they 9 allow -- I think they start at 16 you can go in there. 10 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: They serve alcohol to 11 16 year olds? 12 ALICE BUTLER: No. They close off the bar . 13 area for that specific night. 14 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Okay. The reason I 15 asked that was because they had mentioned alternate sites. 16 Did you look into alternate sites? 17 ALICE BUTLER: We discussed the old Planet 18 Rock building. I don't know if you all are aware of that. 19 However, because of the location, we felt that this was 20 more ideal. I can understand their concerns as far as 21 mixing the alcoholic -selling places and ours is right 22 there, but we do have to realize that Dickson Street runs 23 right into the university, and I'm under the impression 24 that people are under age down there anyway, and as far as 25 I'm concerned, my definition of a minor is anyone under 18. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 174 n LJ 1 As far as drinking is concerned, yes, you have to be 21, 2 but when you're 18, 19, and 20, you're an adult just like 3 anyone else, and it's your responsibility to make that 4 decision. 5 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Okay. Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr. Chairman? 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Estes, 8 COMMISSIONER ESTES: This shared parking 9 agreement that you have submitted does not mention a number 10 of spaces, and the reason I ask that is that we have a 11 document that I have in my file that gives us the number of 12 shared parking spaces with UBC. Mr. Fennel is sharing 25 13 of those spaces now. How many do you propose to share? 14 ALICE BUTLER: There's roughly 40 spaces in 15 that parking lot that they said that we could use if we 16 needed to. However, I was under the impression that since 17 we're zoned C-3, parking would not even be an issue. We 18 just got that for a just -in -case. 19 COMMISSIONER ESTES: But I need a responsive 20 answer. You've offered a shared parking agreement. Is it 21 40 spaces -- 22 ALICE BUTLER: There's 40 spaces. 23 COMMISSIONER ESTES: -- that they tell you 24 are available? 25 ALICE BUTLER: Yes, sir. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 175 1 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Mr. Chairman? 2 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Tucker. 3 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Is it my understanding 4 that parking is not an issue before us in this instance 5 because the building is -- well, an existing building. Is 6 that right? 7 MS. LITTLE: That's right. Remember that we 8 loosened our parking requirements several years ago so that 9 any existing building, regardless of its change in use, is 10 not charged any parking. So because it's already a build - 11 ing and it's already in C-3 and they're not proposing to 12 enlarge it in any way, no parking is required. . 13 COMMISSIONER WARD: Mr. Chairman? 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Ward. 15 COMMISSIONER WARD: This is one I'd like to 16 ask staff. Is there a way we can approve this conditional 17 use that we can put a time frame on it as far as monitoring 18 the -- if there are any problems coming out of there? I 19 mean, all of a sudden we get all these kids in there that 20 start fights and gangs and all this kind of stuff. Is 21 there any way we can monitor this and shut it down if we 22 need to? 23 MS. LITTLE: It's a conditional use and you 24 may assign conditions to it. You could assign a condition 25 that if the police have to respond to this area so -many GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 176 • 1 times within a year, that it comes back to the planning 2 commission, or any -- you know, there are any number of 3 ways that you can structure that type of requirement. 4 JANNA HOLMES: Let me mention, we've also 5 told a resident that had concerns about security after we 6 have closed. We assured them that we would have our secu- 7 rity out in the parking lot when we close, and also we 8 called the Fayetteville Police Department and she said that 9 she could request extra patrol around the time that we do 10 close. 11 COMMISSIONER WARD: I just feel like there 12 is, you know -- it seems like there is always a lot of • 13 trash in parking lots and around driveways and so on around 14 these clubs, dance halls, and I think that's something you 15 all are going to need to get taken care of off the parking 16 lots. 17 ALICE BUTLER: We'd be more than happy to -- 18 COMMISSIONER WARD: You know, it seems like 19 most dance halls have created a lot of -- we're had a lot 20 of fist fights, knives, killings, and everything else at 21 dance halls before that's been out in the parking lots, 22 whether they were drinking of not. So it's -- you know, 23 I'm normally against dance halls, especially close to 24 churches, but if we have some way of putting, you know, a 25 close rein on you, that's fine. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 177 • 1 JANNA HOLMES: That's why we'll have our 2 security out in the parking lot when we close. 3 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Mr. Chairman? 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Forney. 5 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: I have a question for 6 staff. The conditions required that this conditional use 7 comply with our sound ordinance. The comparable project I 8 can think of is the project off of Dickson Street, on the 9 south side of Dickson Street, and I'm trying to remember 10 the name of J.R.'s -- 11 CHAIRMAN ODOM: The Ballroom, 12 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: The Ballroom. That's • 13 right. Have we had any problems with sound complaints 14 relevant to that facility that you're aware of? 15 MS. LITTLE: I'm not aware of any but they 16 wouldn't come to our office. So I wouldn't necessarily be 17 aware of that, but I haven't overhead of any complaints. I 18 can answer that way. 19 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Okay. I am convinced 20 that this is, I think, a good and fair application. We 21 have to live with the parking decisions we have made, which 22 I think are good ones. I think that that shouldn't be in 23 consideration in this case, because we've got to apply that 24 rule even-handedly around the city. I'm also convinced 25 that the city is for everybody and I understand there are GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 178 • 1 different kinds of uses, bars and restaurants and such, but 2 I think that these applicants have as much right to the use 3 of the city as the rest of us. The only concern that I do 4 have, because this is a bit closer to residential areas 5 than The Ballroom is, that we make sure that sound is not 6 going to be a problem where we have the residents in that 7 neighborhood having problems, and I know -- I think there 8 are some windows on the north side of the facility towards 9 some of the residential areas, I believe, if I remember 10 correctly, so I would -- I guess I would say to the appli- 11 cants that if I see this conditional use returned because 12 of complaints about noise when you've got your doors closed 13 and all that, then I would take that as an indication that 14 you haven't done your job maybe of soundproofing, which we 15 think is a very important thing to do so that you can have 16 a facility like this. So with that said, I'll be support - 17 ing this application. 18 JANNA HOLMES: To comment on that, we are 19 planning to brick up the windows that are in the back of 20 that building and that should take care of that. 21 MS. LITTLE: Brick up? 22 JANNA HOLMES: Yeah. 23 MS. LITTLE: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I hate it that the court 25 reporter is here tonight because I'm going to agree with GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 179 • 1 everything that John Forney said. 2 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Mr. Chairman? 3 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes, 4 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: I'm going to move to 5 approve the conditional use 99-4.00. This is the enter - 6 tainment area of Fayetteville. It is close to the univer- 7 sity. It seems to me it is an appropriate place. So I'm 8 going to move we approve, subject to staff comments. 9 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Second. 10 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We have a motion and a 11 second to approve conditional use 99-4.00 subject to staff 12 comments. Is there any further discussion? • 13 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Mr. Chairman? 14 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Commissioner Hoffman. 15 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: I have an amendment 16 to provide for re -review of their conditional use permit 17 if there are -- within six months if there are -- and I'm 18 trying to put a quantity on the number of police 19 complaints, or residents' complaints. Somebody help me out 20 here. 21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Significant. 22 COMMISSIONER WARD: Significant complaints. 23 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Significant. Thank 24 you. That's fine with me. Significant complaints. 25 COMMISSIONER WARD: You're talking about GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 180 n L_� 1 breaking the noise ordinances and -- 2 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Breaking the noise 3 ordinance, rowdiness in the parking lot, under -age problems 4 with alcohol. Things of that nature. So I would like to 5 leave the door open for an opportunity if there are prob- 6 lems with those to come back. That would be my friendly 7 amendment if somebody else will accept it. 8 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Second. 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Any further discussion? 10 Call the roll. 11 MS, HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 12 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. . 13 MS, HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 14 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes. 15 MS, HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 16 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes, 17 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 19 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 20 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 21 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 22 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes, 23 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 24 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes. 25 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 181 • 1 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, 2 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 3 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes. 4 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Motion carries unanimously. 5 Thank you. 6 All right. The next item on tonight's 7 agenda is rezoning of 99-2.00, which is Item Number 10 on 8 tonight's agenda. This is submitted by Brett Hensen for 9 property located on Locust Street at Archibald Yell Boule- 10 vard. The property is zoned R-2, medium density residen- 11 tial, and contains approximately 0.22 acres. The request 12 is to rezone the property to C-2, thoroughfare commercial. 13 Staff recommends rezoning the property to C-2, thoroughfare 14 commercial. Staff are there any additional -- 15 MR. VINSON: No, sir. 16 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Sir, if you want to identify 17 yourself and make any presentation at this time. 18 TOM HENSEN: Yes. Thank you. I'll ask that 19 council please bear with me because this will -- 20 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Please don't elevate us to 21 that level. We're just commissioners. 22 TOM HENSEN: The thing that probably con - 23 cerns me the most is the contingencies, and I just want to 24 make a few comments. The lean-to mentioned in here which 25 is an integral part of the original building for several GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 182 • 1 reasons, but the main reason was that we receive night 2 freight through that area. We put a 75 -foot building on a 3 90 -foot lot, and the city worked with us very closely and 4 gave us some variances concerning -- we're below the level 5 of the street, considerably below the level of the street, 6 and they allowed us some things in the form of variances on 7 the sign and on the setbacks. There is a very effective 8 and a very elaborate draining system around the building 9 that has been there for -- well, the building has been 10 there for, I guess, about 16 or 17 years, and it's been 11 very effective, and the foundation is such that it's not 12 set up for brick. With that being said, what we're re - 13 questing -- the lot that the building is on is below the 14 level of the street, and the lot that we're proposing the 15 new building on is below the level of that lot, and what 16 we're asking is for the lot next to us to be rezoned so 17 that we can put a building on it approximately 3600 square 18 feet. I think, unless my son has something else, that's 19 basically -- 20 BRETT HENSEN: We might should clarify who 21 we are, because I don't think -- 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: That would be a good idea. 23 Go ahead, Brett. 24 BRETT HENSEN: Tom Hensen is the owner of 25 the property and I'm Brett Hensen, the applicant. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 183 n �J 1 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Brett, do you have 2 anything further? 3 BRETT HENSEN: Just that I hope that in this 4 we can clarify that we are strictly dealing with a rezoning 5 in this meeting and that in no way are there any binding 6 situations made as to the recommendations for changes to 7 the existing structure. That's important to us. 8 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think the staff is con - 9 cerned about that because this would not come back before 10 us. Is that correct, staff, in regard to the large scale 11 develop? And they were concerned that some issues that 12 would be addressed on other applications would not be • 13 addressed because of that. Staff, do you want to comment 14 on that? 15 MR. VINSON: Because this is a rezoning, the 16 design requirements are not supposed to be discussed at 17 this time, but at building permit time they would be. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: You're just making the 19 applicant aware of that? 20 MR. VINSON: Right, 21 TOM HENSEN: Can I show you folks something? 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: If you want to. 23 TOM HENSEN: This is the original building 24 and a step-by-step. This is the survey. I think maybe the 25 survey takes -- doesn't even really show on there. This is GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 184 1 the original building. This is building right here. The 2 parking lot here and then the extension right here, being 3 this part right here. That was very important and the city 4 worked with us on that. This is the building. This is 5 where we receive in freight. This is what's referred to as 6 a lean-to but it's really an integral part -- 7 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Tom, if you would go back to 8 the podium, please. This apparently has been addressed in 9 the past. Do you have any more history on it than that? 10 MR. VINSON: We have not seen the photos, 11 the survey, or the plans. We did -- we have talked about 12 what would be required at the building permit time, because • 13 of the zoning and the nature of this business, and the 14 lean-to part of the building, which was built at the time 15 that the building was built is in the right-of-way of 16 Archibald Yell. It's in Fayetteville's right-of-way right 17 now and that's one reason we wanted to address that. 18 CHAIRMAN ODOM: I think the applicant has 19 indicated that they have in the past asked for a variance 20 and have received a variance on that. Do you have any 21 history on that? 22 MR. VINSON: We couldn't find any records of 23 a variance. 24 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Mr, Chairman? 25 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 185 I COMMISSIONER ESTES: This is a request to 2 rezone a 50 -foot strip of land which was split from a lot 3 to the south by an administrative lot split which was 4 approved by our city engineer. Having made the applicant 5 aware of the problem of the lean-to encroaching on the city 6 right-of-way, and the sign being out of compliance with the 7 city sign ordinance, I would move that we approve the 8 rezoning request RZ 99-2.00. 9 CHAIRMAN ODOM: All right. I'll second 10 that. Staff, if this is approved and they come back for a 11 building permit and have some additional information or 12 would like to make a presentation, do they have the right . 13 to appeal any decision you have back to us for consider - 14 ation of the things that you're discussing? 15 MS. LITTLE: It sort of depends on which 16 decisions it is. It either comes back to this, the plan - 17 ning commission, or it goes to the board of adjustments. 18 There is a right of appeal, yes. 19 CHAIRMAN ODOM: We're not trapping them in 20 any way by allowing for the rezoning request at this time? 21 MS. LITTLE: No, I don't think so. 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Okay. Any further discus - 23 sion? Call the roll. 24 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Estes? 25 COMMISSIONER ESTES: Yes. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 186 1-0 11 1 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoffman? 2 COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN: Yes. 3 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Hoover? 4 COMMISSIONER HOOVER: Yes. 5 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Odom? 6 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Yes. 7 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Forney? 8 COMMISSIONER FORNEY: Yes. 9 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Shackleford? 10 COMMISSIONER SHACKLEFORD: Yes, 11 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Tucker? 12 COMMISSIONER TUCKER: Yes. 13 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Johnson? 14 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, 15 MS. HOPSON: Commissioner Ward? 16 COMMISSIONER WARD: Yes, 17 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Motion carries unanimously. 18 Thank you, gentlemen. 19 Staff, do we have any further items on the 20 agenda? I don't see any. 21 MS. LITTLE: None that I'm aware of, sir. 22 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Any you want to bring up? 23 MS. LITTLE: I don't have any to bring up. 24 CHAIRMAN ODOM: Anybody else? We're ad - 25 journed. GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060 187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r � U C E R T I F I C A T E I, LEAH KAY PAYTON, duly certified Court Re- porter and duly commissioned Notary Public within and for the State of Arkansas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a true and accurate transcription of the Regular Meeting of the Planning Commission, City of Fayetteville, Arkansas on the 8th day of February, 1999. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my official seals. Leah Kay Payton, CCR No. 277 Court Reporter and Notary Public OFFICIAL SEAL LEAH KAY PAYTON NOTAPY PUBLIC - ARINNSAS WASIIINCTO% COUNTY My Corn n z&on Capnac. 03 • 22 - 2002 GOSS & PAYTON REPORTERS, INC. Rita R. Goss Leah Kay Payton Fayetteville, Arkansas (501) 521-8060