HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-07-13 Minutes•
MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
FAYETTEVILLE PLANNING COMMISSION
A meeting of the Fayetteville Planning Commission was hld on
Monday July 13, 1987 in the Board of Directors Room of the City
Administration Building, 113, West Mountain Street, Fayetteville,
Arkansas.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ernie Jacks, Sue Madison, Stan Green, Fred
Hanna, Butch Robertson, Gerald Seiff; B.J.
Dow, Julie Nash and Frank Farrish
MEMBERS ABSENT:
OTHERS PRESENT:
None
Jim Cramer, Dave Jorgensen, Floyd Thomas,
Jerry Allred, Collins Haynes, Larry Poage,
Sandra Carlisle, Tessi Franzmeier, and others
APPROVAL OF A REPLAT OF A FINAL PLAT
COLT SQUARE BLOCK 2 - JIM CRAMER
The first item on the agenda was consideration of a replat of a
• final plat of Colt Square. Submitted by Jim Cramer, property
located south of Township and west of Green Acres Rd. Property
zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial District.
Jacks asked Mr. Cramer if he was just replatting the middle
portion of the property and Mr. Cramer replied "yes".
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MOTION
Hanna moved to approve the replat as submitted, seconded by Dow.
The motion to approve passed 8-0-1, Farrish abstained
APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAT
HILLSIDE SUBDIVISION - SAM MATHIAS
The second item of consideration was a preliminary plat submitted
by Sam Mathias and represented by Dave Jorgensen. Property
located east of Old Wire and south of Stewart. Property zoned
R-1, Low Density Residential District, contains 5.77 acres and
total lots proposed 15.
Jacks advised the preliminary plat was heard by the subdivision
committee and turned discussion over to Commissioner Farrish.
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Planning Commission
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Page 2
Farrish advised the preliminary plat was approved by the
Subdivision Committee contingent upon; 1) proof of notification;
and 2) separation of the utility and drainage easement.
Carlisle advised proof of notification had been submitted to the
Planning Office.
Madison asked if lot 10 was still unbuildable.
Jorgensen said it was very possible that the final plat may be
changed to 14 proposed lots and combine lot 10 with lot 9.
Farrish said Mr. Jorgensen had indicated at the Subdivision
Committee meeting that the developer may replat lots 7, 8, 9 and
10.
Madison asked if the utilities would be overhead or underground.
Mr. Jorgensen replied all the utilities would be underground.
Madison asked if the last street light on lot 9 would meet the
300' requirement. Jorgensen replied the street light on lot 9
would be approximately 300' to the next light in the Creekwood
Subdivision.
MOTION
Farrish moved to approve the preliminary plat as submitted
subject to plat review comments, seconded by Seiff. The motion
to approve passed 9-0-0.
Due to an error on the Planning Commission agenda some people
were present to speak for the Hillside Terrace Subdivision which
was an error. The subdivision to be discussed was the Hillside
Subdivision.
WAIVER OF THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS -LOT SPLIT
FAYETTEVILLE LODGE - FLOYD THOMAS
The third item on the agenda
Subdivision Regulations (Lot
525 West 15th and zoned
Industrial.
was a request for a waiver of the
Split). Property located at
I-1, Heavy Commercial and Light
Mr. Thomas stated he was the Master of the
they would just simply like to sell
because it was not used with the exception
Lodge (740). He said
part of their property
of mowing.
Seiff asked in relationship to the Lodge property where was the
approximate location of Dunn Street. Mr. Thomas replied that
19
ko
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 3
Dunn Street was west of their property. Seiff said he notice a
commercial building behind the Lodge with an access road to the
building which he assumed was on their property. Mr. Thomas said
the access road was not on the Lodge property.
MOTION
Madison moved to grant the request as submitted, seconded by
Hanna. The motion to approve passed 9-0-0.
APPROVAL OF A LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT
JIM LINDSEY - 4044 N. COLLEGE (STATE SOCIAL SERVICES ADDITION)
The fourth item on the agenda was consideration of a large scale
development plan submitted by Jim Lindsey for the State Social
Services. The proprety is zoned C-2, Thoroughfare Commercial
District and contains 2.21 acres more or less.
Commissioner Farrish of the Subdivision Committee advised the
Large Scale Development had been review by this committee. He
said the plan met all the requirements and was approved
contingent upon 1) proof of notification. Carisle advised that
the proof of notification had been submittedto the Planning
Office.
Al Hughes, 1765 N. College representing the property owner to the
north. He said to the best of his knowledge there was only one
objection. He said the trash container was unscreened on the
north edge. He said from his and everyone elses experiences
people have a tendancy not to hit the dumpster, but if they do
the trash blows out and soforth.
Carlisle explained the plan did show the dumpster to be screened.
Jacks advised he did not see a note on the plan to indicate if
the dumpster would or would not be screened.
Madison asked if the Sanitation people had any comments about the
location of the dumpster. Carlisle replied "no" and screening
would not be required because it did not abut an R-1 property.
Madison wondered if it would be appropriate to speak with Mr.
Lindsey about this matter.
Mr. Hughes said he did not have a chance to do that and added the
owner of the property only received a notice on Thursday. Mr.
Hughes said he went to the Planning Office and was told by Tessi
Franzmeier that it was too late and that the Subdivision had
already voted to approve the LSD. Mr. Hughes also was told if
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 4
anyone were going to object they should have been present at the
Subdivision Committee meeting.
Mr. Hughes said 20 years ago when he was on the Planning
Commission the thing that concerned them was trying to keep the
public aware of what was going on. He respectfully submits that
if something was going to be built next to him and it was
advertised by the legal description he would not even know it.
He said he had spoke with 12-15 people sense Thursday, asking if
something were going to be built and the notice was in the paper
by legal description, would they recognize it. He said the
answer to that was none of those people new their legal
descriptions. He said 20 years ago they were trying to have some
means of getting the immediate property owners notified, but he
just did not believe that a notice in the newspaper was adequate.
Jacks said the answer to that question was the Planning
Commission had just finished going through the Subdivision
Regulations. He said Larry Wood was presently trying to work up
all their notes into a document they could deal with. Jacks said
unless he was badly mistaken they would require with the revision
that Large Scale Developments be notified by certified mail.
Mr. Hughes felt that should be something to give careful
consideration particularly for a Large Scale Development because
that was just for anything over an acre. He said this just
happened to be 1.01 of an acre.
Farrish explained items that were addressed at the Subdivision
Committee. He said according to the plat the trash receptacle
was on the north side of the property towards the west. He said
quite frankly he presumed the dumpser was in existance because
the existing building and all the other parking was in existance.
Jacks added there were no comments from Wally Brt of the
Sanitation Department as to what would be required.
Jacks said the screening could not be required and Carlisle added
she would call Mr. Lindsey and ask him if the dumpster could be
screened on three sides.
Jacks noted that the screening was not a legal requirement to do
so.
MOTION
Farrish moved approval of the Subdivision Committee with the
exceptance of this Large Scale Development with a stipulation
that Sandra Carlisle, Director of Planning, contact Mr. Lindsey
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
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and request he consider screening the trash from the property on
the north, seconded by Nash. The motion passed 9-0-0.
WAIVER OF THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS - LOT SPLIT
JERRY ALLRED - LOT 16, BLOCK 7 MEADOWLARK ADDITION
The fifth item on the agenda was consideration of a waiver of the
Subdivision Regulations (Lot Split). Submitted by Jerry Allred
for property located at lot 16, block 17 of Meadowlark Addition.
Property zoned R-1, Low Density Residential District.
Jerry Allred stated his request was to take the one large lot and
cut it in two, making two smaller conforming lots to build two
smaller homes on the lots.
Jacks asked the size of the lots and Mr. Allred replied one lot
would be 70' and the lot to the east would be 77.5'.
Madison asked if Mr. Allred had checked the covenants on this
addition to see if there were any prohibition against replatting.
Mr. Allred replied there were no covenants on this addition that
he could find. Madison then asked the reason for the easement
shown on the plat. Mr. Allred said the easement was there so the
utilities could service the two lots.
Seiff asked Mr. Allred if he owned the lot to the north and Mr.
Allred replied he did not own that lot. Seiff added from what he
could see this would be the only lot of that size and all the
other existing lots were on a 147' lot.
MOTION
Seiff moved to grant the request as submitted, seconded by Hanna.
The motion to approve passed 9-0-0.
REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE - MOSQUE
KHAN MASOOD - NE CORNER OF REGAN & ARKANSAS AVE.
The sixth item on the agenda was a request for a conditional use
for a Mosque. Request submitted by Khan Masood and represented
by Collins Haynes. Property zoned R-3, High Density Residential
District.
Collins Haynes of Haynes & Associates stated his firm had been
retained by the Islamic Society of North America to provide
architectural engineering services for the Mosque. He said the
• Mosque would be built for the Islamic student poplulation of the
University of Arkansas. This building would be built on the
corner of Reagan Street and Arkansas Avenue, presently there was
Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 6
a large white house at that location. He said there was a
parking lot behind the property and a small duplex. Mr. Haynes
said their intent was to place a payer hall which essentially was
a Mosque, and was not in the traditional word a Church on the
property in question. Mr. Haynes presented a membership list of
the Mosque to the Planning Commission. He said there would be
approximately 60 members and 4 of which live off -campus who were
Doctors and Surgeons. Mr. Haynes presented a site plan of the
proposed Mosque to the Planning Commission and explained the
design of the Mosque. He said the students would meet on Friday
at 1:30 and 99% of the members attend the University where they
could walk from the University. He said the students do not have
automobiles and have no intention of having automobiles. He said
the membership would change yearly as students graduate they
leave and new students come in. He said the steady congregation
would be somewhere from 60-85 members and possibly 100 for
special occasions.
Jacks asked if they were also requesting a waiver on the parking
requirements and Mr. Haynes replied "yes".
Mr. Haynes said 90% of the congregation lived on campus and do
not have automobiles. He said it was a student organization and
was not meant to be a community organization. He said primarily
they would meet on Friday from 1:00 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Haynes also added if the students did have cars they could
park in the student lot to the west. He said most of the
students who would attend do not have cars and it was traditional
to walk.
Madison asked if this would go through Large Scale Development
and Carlisle replied "no" because the property was less than 1
acre.
Mr. Haynes was asked how many stories would the building be. Mr.
Haynes explained the front of the building would be two stories
and the rear would be three stories. He said the only difference
would be the minaret would be approximately 10-15' taller.
Hanna asked how many square feet would be in the building. Mr.
Haynes replied approximately 8000 sq.ft.
Seiff asked if the parking requirement was not waived how many
parking spaces would they be required to have. Mr. Haynes said
that figure would come from the footage in the auditorium and
that was a little different because there were no seats in the
prayer hall because they kneel and use prayer rugs.
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Planning Commission
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Page 7
Jacks said in that case it would be calculated on congregation
size.
Carlisle replied the required number of spaces would be 31 and
they only have room for 10.
Seiff then said they were asking for
required spaces.
a waiver on the other 21
Madison asked why this group was not seeking a rezoning rather
than the requested conditional use. Mr. Haynes said they were
told they needed a conditional use for a church in a residential
zone. Madison then said a rezoning for P-1, which would abut P-1
would allow churches by right. Madison said she would feel
better about a rezoning because of notification of adjacent
property owners. She said there was no sign on the property.
Mr. Haynes said they had notified all of the adjacent property
owners.
Carlisle advised notification
conditional use was not required,
owners had been mailed an agenda of
of property owners for a
but all adjoining property
the proposed Mosque.
Madison felt very uncomfortable waiving more than half of the
required parking spaces especially in the part of town where
parking was at such a premium. She said this would also be
reasonably close to the arts center and wondered if the building
might someday be used for other purposes by other people.
Mr. Haynes said a Mosque was somewhat different in religious
nature. He said it could never be changed and could only be what
it was a Mosque forever.
Madison asked if this was the most practical location of this
religion in Northwest Arkansas. Mr. Haynes said this location
was the most practical because it was very close for the
students. Madison added once the structure was built and as a
reality more people of this faith discover it, they may very well
have automobiles. She also did not think they could use
University parking on a regular basis.
Hanna said
did have
personally
he would have no objection to the conditional use, but
an objection to waiving those parking spaces and
he would not waive them.
Nash said the very nature of the University was that the parking
was limited and she understood their point that this would be
used by non -driving students. Mr. Haynes said that was not the
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 8
point they have to walk because it was tradition and as he said
90% of the people lived on campus. Nash said most of the student
religious centers have the same parking problems as well as the
dormitories and fraternities. She said she could not see the
Planning Commission discriminating in this case because of the
parking.
Madison said she did not see any reason to compound the problem.
Hanna said there were only 60 members now, but in 10 years there
may be 600 members.
•
Mr. Haynes said the building
the occupancy load by code for
they got that many more people
MOTION
and prayer hall could not service
more than 90 people. He said if
they would have to move.
Farrish moved to grant the conditional use request and waive the
parking requirement, seconded by Nash and followed by discussion.
Madison said she voted against the motion for 2 reasons. She
felt this should be a rezoning and was very opposed to waiving
the parking.
Dow said she did have some reservations about the limited
parking, but felt this was a very unique situation. She said
this was a culture which did minimize the use cars and felt this
was an appropriate situation for the Mosque.
Carlisle stated with the Planning Commissions approval off-site
parking could be requested somewhere on campus that was within
300' of the Mosque.
Green said he would feel more comfortable with that than waiving
the required parking. He asked Carlisle if they could get
permission from the University to use a lot with a designation of
off-site parking and Carlisle replied "yes".
Jacks felt the University would not go with the dedicated
parking. Mr. Haynes added no the University would not dedicate
parking.
Hanna said the Doctors that were going to attend do not leave
every four years and asked what was to keep the population from
expanding.
• Mr. Haynes said the prayer hall was strictly limited by code.
Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 9
Farrish said one of the things that did not bother him about the
parking was that it was a self policing situation. He said this
was intended primarily for the student body and they would have
parking passes at the University. He said anyone else would have
to risk the rath of the University police department.
Green said he had one problem and that was an 8000 sq.ft.
building that would only accomodate 68 people. Mr. Haynes said
the prayer hall alone would only accomodate 68 people. Mr.
Haynes said 50 members were males and approximately 20 females
and they were segregated. Green asked how many people would be
living there and Mr. Haynes said possibly 3 and that depended on
how many sqare feet they could get.
Seiff felt looking at the welfare of the community that it was a
terrific thing to have a Mosque in the community. He felt it was
a more rounded community to welcome that particular belief.
The question was called and the motion to grant the conditional
use request and waive the parking requirement past 7-0-0, Hanna
and Madison voting "nay".
REQUEST FOR A WAIVER OF THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
LARRY & VALERIE POAGE - 5645 E. HUNTSVILLE RD.
The seventh item on the agenda was
Subdivision Regulations (Lot Split)
Poage. Property located at 5645 E
Density Residential District. This
property.
a request for a waiver of the
, submitted by Larry & Valerie
Huntsville Rd, zoned R-1, Low
would be the 3rd split on the
Larry Poage stated he had a piece of property on the corner of Ed
Edwards Rd and Huntsville Rd. He would like to sell the corner
part and retain a lot which was 90.77' X 290 with his existing
home.
MOTION
Madison moved to approve the
Hanna. The motion to approve
OTHER BUSINESS
request as submitted, seconded by
passed 9-0-0,
A discussion from the neighbors on east Lafayette for the removal
of the Highway 45 designation from Highway 265 to 471.
Jacks advised the Planning Commission had sent a recommendation
to the TAC and the Fayetteville, Springdale Transportation Policy
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 10
Committee. He added the TAC had sent back a recommendation,
which had gone to the Policy Committee. He said the TAC
recommended against the amendment for the following reasons.
1. After two 3 -hour peak traffic counts were taken, it was
revealed that only six (6) "heavy" trucks traveled this route.
The TAC did not believe this warrants an amendment.
2. Even if the designation was made, traffic volumes would not
change for either automobiles or trucks. A current City
ordinance would not allow the City to prohibit current truck
traffic from one point in the City to another.
3. If S.H. 45 was eliminated from the State system, S.H. 180
would have to be eliminated also since it would not tie into a
State system route.
4. The designation change would be very expensive for the City
since all future maintenance and improvements would have to be
made solely by the City.
Chairman Jacks also noted a letter had been received from the
Washington County Historical Society which expressed the support
and efforts of the Planning Commission to reduce commercial
traffic at that location. Another letter had been received from
Robert and Marion Wyckoff, essentially saying the same thing for
relocation of that route.
At this point Chairman Jacks opened the public hearing for
testimony from citizens of the neighborhood.
Mary Frances Newbern, 403 N. Washington stated that by way of
explanation she wanted to say their request for a place on the
agenda for this evening had been mailed two weeks ago. She said
it had been delivered by mistake to the University of Arkansas.
She said to of postponed this item for two weeks would have
presented a real hardship and they do thank the Commission for
hearing them tonight.
Ms. Newbern added because the traffic on East Lafayette Street,
which was designated Highway 45 had become almost unbearable.
She said some of the property owners on that street came to the
Planning Commission on May 26, 1987 asking for relief. Ms.
Newbern said the neighbors had reminded the Planning Commission
of a plan which was suggested many months ago by a former member
of the City Board of Directors. She said the plan was the re-
routing of Highway 45 around Fayetteville, using Highway 16 East,
Crossover Road, Highway 265 and Joyce Street. They understood
that the Planning Commission had voted favorably on this
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 11
suggestion, but that it had not been referred to the Technical
Advisory Committee for approval. She said the procedure had now
been followed and TACs recommendation, as it was published in the
Northwest Arkansas Times was negative. She said they feel this
Advisory Committee had considered their request from a purely
commercial view point, with no regard for the human needs of
those people who are affected by this unhappy situation. She
said since a number of TAC members live outside of Fayetteville
they may not realize that Highway 45 cuts right through the
center of the Washington Willow District. She said the streets
were lined with beautiful restored homes and tourist come from
miles around to admire the perfect examples of various types of
architecture of the past. She said school children were brought
to learn by studying the Historical District and artists come to
capture the beauty of the blooming Azalea and Dogwood trees. Ms.
Newbern said the owners who live in these homes were working hard
and spending freely to preserve this historic area for the
enlightment and enjoyment of future generations.
Ms. Newbern stated the heavy traffic on Lafayette Street and on
Mission Street also was a critically serious problem and they had
returned tonight to discuss it further with the Planning
Commission, who are citizens of Fayetteville:' She said several
property owners were here to tell the Planning Commission why
they consider this situation to be a vital one which needs
attention now. Her hope was that the Commission would vote to
disregard TACs advise and proceed with plans of the re-routing of
Highway 45.
Nash asked if the Commission chose to disregard the advise from
the TAC how would they proceed?
Jacks replied he did not really know.
Dow thought a resolution could be presented to the City Board.
Jacks said he was not sure what the real legal arrangements would
be between the City of Fayetteville and Springdale.
John Burrow, 409 E. Lafayette said basically his argument against
doing this was that the City got a real bargain. He said they
get the streets maintained and the down side would be they would
not be controlled. He said one of the big motivators that had
gotten them up here was the prospect of that street actually
being made more of a Highway rather than less of one. He said
the assertion by the TAC was that only 6 trucks went by was
nonsense. He said the neighborhood was going to provide the City
Board with a 24-hour count of the number of trucks in any one
given day. Mr. Burrow added the weight limit was 70,000 pounds
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
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and when trucks go over that manhole in front of his home you
could feel the vibration all the way throught the house which was
cracking the plaster. He said they realize they were forcing the
issue and it may very well be that a compromise measure might be
more preferable, than the one they were actually advocating. He
thought the long term development of the traffic in through and
around Fayetteville ought to provide for an alternate from a
major Highway artery coming through a quiet residential
neighborhood.
Marion Wyckoff, 391 N. Fletcher wanted to re-emphasize that air
polution from the toxic fumes from the trucks and the
automobiles. She said the vibration from trucks shook their
homes and cracked the plaster. She frequently watches big trucks
as they fail to negotiate the corner and run up over the new curb
the City just installed. She added there were deep ruts in the
ground between the sidewalk and street, and the grass that was
planted there has long since been destroyed. She said Highway by
definition should be the most expeditous way to move traffic past
the town. Highway 45 as presently constituted, reminded her of
certain small towns, where the Highway was deliberately routed
right through the middle of town, at the lowest possible speed in
order to corner as many tourist dollars and. ..speeding fines as
possible.
Bob Brezenski, 412 E. Lafayette read a letter from the principal
of St. Joseph's School (Ann F. Wilson); As you consider the re-
routing of Highway 45, please reflect on the following facts;
1. Over 100 children attend St. Joseph's School which is
located on Lafayette Street
2. Children cross the street to retrieve playground balls often
3. Children take walking field trips and must walk along
Lafayette St.
4. the noice from the current traffic is detrimental to the
learing process.
After thoughful consideration, I hope you will find in favor of
the re-routing of Highway 45.
Mr. Brezenski also said he had spoke with the principal of
Washington School and after checking the records there were 167
children on her roster which use the intersection of Lafayette
and college.
Madison asked if item number 2 was a viable statement and asked
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 13
if there was really such an ordinance.
Carlisle said she had wondered about item 2 also and did
if that were true.
not know
Green said what item number 2 was saying was that the City could
not stop trucks from making local deliveries.
Seiff said he thought the Planning Commission had voted to
recommend this to the TAC.
Jacks said as he remembered the Commission really did not
recommend, but sent the motion to the TAC without a
recommendation.
Farrish thought the Commission was debating whether the traffic
should be routed to the north or to the south or where it was
going to connect. Farrish said the Commission sent that to the
TAC for them to advise which was the best way to connect.
Nash also felt the Commission had asked for TACs assistance, not
there vote.
Jacks said in this process he was very suprised to learn that
Highway 45 designation ends at College and picks up again at
Lincoln. Jacks said Larry Wood had told him there was a gap that
simply did not exist between Highway 471 and Lincoln.
Farrish said it was actually between Prairie Grove and Lincoln,
and did not go all the way to Lincoln because it cut through on
Highway 68 then to Arkansas 59,
Mrs. Wyckoff said she had asked Larry Wood what authority the TAC
had and he told her the TAC was purely advisory.
Jacks noted that was
body (Fayetteville,
which he sits on and
body had.
true, but then the TAC reported to another
Springdale Transportation Policy Committee)
he really did not know what authority that
Nash felt it was not up to this body to try an decide a
particular route. She felt the final judgement would be up to
the Board of Directors.
MOTION
Nash moved to recommend
next meeting, remove the
and Mission (Highway 471
to the Board of Directors that at their
Highway 45 designation from Lafayette
to Highway 265), seconded by Hanna and
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 14
followed by discussion.
Green said he did not think the Board of Directors could remove a
State Highway designation.
Green said he would be willing to recommend to the City Board
that the Planning Commission felt something needs to be done to
solve this problem. He added, but to take the State Highway
designation from 45 would not solve the problem. He said the one
point TAC made was valid in that changing names was not going to
change the way traffic goes, and that was his concern about this
solution. Green said he also would be willing to ask the City
Board to have the appropriate people on City staff to look into a
possible solution to this problem.
Nash said she would be willing to amend her motion to add
alternate truck routes be marked.
AMENDMENT
Nash moved to amend her motion to include alternate truck routes
be marked.
Mr. Brezenski said a great deal of the traffic was people in big
trucks with maps in their hands looking for Highway numbers. He
said if the Highway number was moved that would oliviate all the
trucks.
Green felt the Commission was operating in a vacuum, because the
only information that had indicated this would not solve the
problem. He said he did not agree with everything in the TAC
report, but did agree with what was being proposed was not going
to solve the problem. Once again Green said he felt the
Commission was operating in a vacuum as they tend to do with no
information, no advise at all from the people on the City payroll
about what alternatives there were. He said this was not a way
to plan for the traffic flow and thought it was probably a way to
address some concerns on a very short term basis, but not to
solve the problem. Green said the addition to the motion dearly
changed his opinion.
Matt Havens, 400 N. Washington said the flow of traffic would not
be changed if the sign was changed. He said all over the country
there were signs that said "Business Route No Through Trucks
Allowed".
AMENDMENT TO THE AMENDED MOTION
Farrish then moved that in light of the TAC statement that State
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 15
Highway 180 would have to be removed from the State system if
State Highway 45 was eliminated, the Board of Directors designate
alternate routes of equal length as a swap to the AHTD so that
maintenance and improvements would not be made soley by the City,
seconded by Dow and followed by discussion.
Nash asked if the amendment was added to the motion, then in
affect the City could say "if we don't get any swap out then
we're not going to move the Highway". Green said they could say
anything they want and it would not really have any bearing on
the decision.
Nash felt the last amendment should be a separate motion, because
it sounded exclusive. Farrish then said he did not have a
problem withdrawing his amendment and Dow withdrew her second.
Madison said she understood Commissioner Greens' point, but did
not know what else the Commission could do. She said this has
been a problem for at least a year. She said regardless of what
does result if the Highway was changed she felt it was
inappropriate for a State Highway to go through that part of
• town. There was at least two elementary schools on that Highway
and it was not good for State Highways togo in front of two
elementary schools. Madison said she saw the report saying most
of the traffic was local traffic and felt the City should darn
well pay for it.
Mrs. Newbern said at least 100 of the children who attended
Washington School go by her house. She said the children ride
their bicycles and skateboards on the sidewalk in front of her
home where there is no parking. She said the trucks come within
inches of the children and one of these days a child was going to
make a mistake and flip off the sidewalk and be seriously hurt or
killed.
Green felt this was not the solution, particularly now that he
understands the change would be from Highway 265 to 471. He said
the Commission had not really done anything to make anything
happen and the only discussion the Commission had was among
themselves. He said he was not an expert on routing roads and
felt as he said early they were operating in vacuum and would not
accomplish anything. He said it was a problem and the only real
solution was to offer an alternate route that works and enables
people to get to where they want to go.
Seiff felt the Commission should make it a little stronger and
• believed the traffic should be re-routed from Highway 265 south
to Highway 16 then west to Highway 471 then south again on 71.
He disagreed with Commissioner Green because if signs were posted
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 16
people would follow them. He said that would be the most logical
route for any kind of a commercial vehicle and felt the
Commission should take a stand and recommend that proposal as an
alternate route.
Hanna said throughout the country Cities have a business route
marked. He said if the designation was routed at Highway 265
with the business 45 left just like it was, people would have
enough sense not to go through town.
Jacks advised the motion before the Commission included a
provision for futher routes to be developed.
Green said he thought Commissioner Hanna came close to a solution
that would work. Green said that was to leave the Highway 45
designation on Lafayette and mark it business 45, and put a 45
sign pointing south on Highway 265 and on Highway 16. Green said
that makes more sense than anything he has heard yet.
Nash said the Highway 45 designation would still be on the map.
Hanna said
tourist or
Nash said
Highway 45
City still
if the map showed another Highway 45 designation the
whoever would have another choice..
she was not sure of putting business on top of
sign. She said it was still a State Highway and
had very little control over where it goes.
Jacks felt they were better off with a
routes to be developed. He said
suggestions for a workable idea.
the
the
motion that said further
that could be one of the
The question was called and the motion to recommend to the City
Board at their next meeting, to remove the Highway 45 designation
from Lafayette and Mission (Highway 471 to Highway 265) and
further routes be developed. The motion to recommend passed
8-1-0, Green voting "nay".
The question was called and the second motion made, in light of
the TAC statement that State Highway 180 would have to be removed
from the State system if State Highway 45 is eliminated, the
Board of Directors designate alternate route, seconded by Dow.
The motion to recommend passed 9-0-0.
Madison asked if this recommendation would go to the next Board
of Directors meeting.
• Carlisle replied "yes" the next Board meeting was on Tuesday,
July 21, 1987 at 7:30 p.m.
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Planning Commission
July 13, 1987
Page 17
There being no futher business the meeting adjourned at 7:05 p.m.