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Home My WebLink About1994-05-16 - MinutesPRAB REGULAR MEETING MAY 16, 1994 The meeting was called to order by Susan Driver at 5:30 pm in room 219 of the City Administration Building. Members Present: Bell, Driver, James, Kimbrough, Savage, Waite, Wright • Staff Present: Media Present: Guests Present: BUSINESS: Clark, Cox, Edmonston Rusty Garrett, Mark Minton Woody Bassett I. MOTION:WAITE/BELL The minutes from the May 2, 1994 PRAB meeting were approved unanimously 5-0. II. GREEN SPACE ORDINANCE PROPOSAL AND PARKS MASTER PLAN These items are on the May 17, 1994 City Council agenda. Driver: I don't see the Lewis Park property mentioned anywhere in the Master Plan. We might need an addendum for the City Council. Many cities evaluate green space every three years. The average cost of land has risen from $9,000 to 12,000 an acre, therefore that is why we are raising green space fees 33 percent. Some people believe that green space fees are paid for every acre but it is not. Waite: If anyone sat in. on the sports meeting and, believe people coming into Fayetteville are not affecting us, they do not realize the demands. Kimbrough:Many people do not realize that green space can also pay for development of existing parks. It is not just for additional land purposes. Waite: Planning Commission also recommended that fees go up. III. WALKER PARK EXPANSION FACILITIES/BUDGET COMMITTEE This meeting was held on Wednesday, May 11, 1994. See attached minutes. IV. DAVIS PARK PUBLIC MEETING The Davis Park public meeting is tentatively set for Tuesday, June 21, 1994 at 6:00 pm on site. Clark: The objective of this meeting is to get the 411 neighborhood to come out and let us know what • • • PAGE 2 they want to see in the park. Northwest Regional Planning Office will use this meeting for Outdoor Recreation Grant purposes. Driver: What is update on the structure by the University students? Edmonston:Rebecca Tuscano will be at our first meeting in June. It is no longer a summer project. It is now a fall program. James: Did she revise the plan? Edmonston:Yes. V. GREEN SPACE MADISON AVENUE Owner/Developer: Location: Park District: Total Acres: Units: Land dedication: Money in lieu: Proposed Park Plan: Existing Park Plan: S & S Development South of Highway 45, East of Starr Drive Southeast 10.18 acres 23 single family .58 acres $5,175 Adjacent to a priority two (Neighborhood 5; no existing park acres; need .7 to 14 acres 1990 Needs; need 16 to 32 acres 2010 needs) Priority One MOTION:WAITE/JAMES The PRAB recommends to the Planning Commission to accept money, $5,175, in lieu of a land dedication for Madison Avenue. MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 6-0 HENDERSON ESTATES Owner/Developer: Location: Park District: Total Acres: Units: Land dedication: Money in lieu: Proposed Park Plan: Existing Park Plan: BMP Development West of Old Missouri, South of Butterfield Trail Village NE 32.72 acres 57 single family 1.43 acres $12,825 No priority (Neighborhood 1; existing 72 acres; need 22 to 44 acres 1990 Needs; need 34 to 68 2010 needs) No Priority MOTION:WAITE/JAMES The PRAB recommends to table Henderson Estates until the land is viewed. MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 7-0 • PAGE 3 DISCUSSION: Clark: We have an emphasis on building trails. There is some creek area we need to look at. Driver: One of our trail proposals is to follow the old Butterfield trail. PRAB will meet on site Monday, May 23 at 5:00 pm. The developer will be contacted to meet also. BOXWOOD ADDITION Owner/Developer: Location: Park District: Total Acres: Units: Land dedication: Money in lieu: Proposed Park Plan: Existing Park Plan: Atlas Construction South of Old Wire, East of Azalea Terrace NE 19.38 acres 55 single family 1.38 acres $12,375 No priority (Neighborhood 1; existing 72 acres; need 22 to 44 acres 1990 Needs; need 34 to 68 2010 needs) Priority 1 MOTION: WRIGHT/KIlIBROUGH The PRAB recommends to table Boxwood Addition until a better legal description is obtained. MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 7-0 DISCUSSION: Edmonston:This could eventually line up with Gulley Park someday. Clark: This is flood plain. Driver: How does this lie to the corridor that belongs to Mr. Sweetser? Clark: North along the same creek. We went over this land with the engineer at one time. We worked out an easement. Dee: What are your intentions with this land? Clark: This land would be good for trails, picnic areas and eventually hook up to Gulley Park. Kimbrough:How would we get all the way to Highway 265? Clark: I don't have an answer for that. Kimbrough:This subdivision has already been built. How will we link up? Edmonston:We will get all area that is lined up to the creek in the subdivision. We saw the aerial and this ties in well with everything else. Savage: So they are giving 2 1/2 times what they have to. Kimbrough:According to this we will be splitting lots. • • PAGE 4 Edmonston:If developers give more it usually works out well if they have future developments. Also some developers just donate the extra land. Driver: I don't think splitting a lot will hurt anything. Waite: The numbering is confusing but their letter is pretty clear. Kimbrough:As long as we have confirmation that everything is south of the trail. Waite: It could be worded a little better but I think it is clear we want the land. VI. SPORTS COMPLEX DISCUSSION Waite: Driver: Waite: Driver: Edmonston: Driver: Bambino needs three more fields. Babe Ruth needs two more fields, but preferably a four field complex. Soccer needs six additional fields. There is room to provide soccer field at Lewis if we had the funding. Girl's softball needs another field. These are conservative projections. Bambino needs a field for next year. With the money from the sports complex,'we will have some funding. We have one topo which does not include fields but we will get better ones. There is limited expansion room there. Bambino does not want to use Walker Expansion area up by supplying fields for thirteen year olds. They also think 200 foot fences are fine. We could accommodate two fields here. A third field would involve taking out a soccer field. We made a recommendation to use the money we have to begin the first field now. You need diagonal parking with .the street wide enough to turn around I talked to Hanna about one way traffic. It would not be more than 80 feet of paving to open on 15th street. Hanna said it would not come out of parks budget. He is very much in favor of this idea. It would be much less expensive to have parallel parking on both sides of the one way on 13th. There will be one way out to 15th street. There is still a hidden place for kids with parallel parking on both sides even though it is one way. They only have to look one way. If you look at the two Babe Ruth fields that are in existence and turn them into thirteen year old fields, and put two fields at Lake Fayetteville Highway 265 by the United Way which does not have the drainage problem that Combs Park has. The two fields on Highway 265 would be for age 14 to 18 with the intention of developing this to be a fourplex eventually. • • • Waite: Wright: Bell: Waite: Kimbrou Waite: Driver - Waite: Driver: Wright: Driver: Driver - Wright: Driver- PAGE 5 We don't have the money to start Highway 265 but it is a great idea. There would be a lot of earth work because of the elevation. The absolute earliest would be 1996 which means Babe Ruth would have to wait two years. If we ask for the sales tax they won't want to split up complexes. We would have enough money for a complex. I hate to start something now. We would not need more than two or three million. We are in desperate shape right now. We have to do something. If soccer is at Lewis , Bambino at Walker Park, and Babe Ruth on Highway 265 with adequate facilities, I don't see why they have to be in one place. As long as each sport has good facilities, they do not all need to be in one complex. We need something now. gh:Lake Fayetteville Highway 265 property is surrounded by Springdale. It would make more sense to sell this land and use the money for a complex. We have a large amount of undeveloped land. This would give us an immediate starting point. Dale is waiting for an answer on whether we can develop Combs Park. That is still a potential site. We can postpone this since we don't have the funding now. We need to construct one additional girl's softball at Asbell, six soccer fields at Lewis Park, two fields for pony league Babe Ruth with four additional fields in next five years, and three Bambino fields in next five years. We would have to add a .field for adults at Lake Fayetteville if we use the big field at Asbell for girl's softball. Looking at CIP funds, we will have funding for eight to ten fields. This is a shortfall of 7 fields with an average construction price of $600,000. If A & P Committee would come up with $130,000 to $150,000 matching funds we could probably meet our requirements. What about parking? This amount is field construction only, not parking or bathrooms. Soccer bring in about $250,000 per tournament for Fayetteville, and there are two major tournaments. With the convention center and airport, we will have more people wanting to come in and play against Fayetteville athletes. This will bring tourist dollars. I still think we need one big complex. I don't see a need for this. Everywhere I have been we play a game here and a game there. They give us a map, and everything is just fine. • • • Waite: Kimbrough James: PAGE 6 If you have fields in a pinwheel with concessions that are good for tournaments, then there aren't usually any complaints. :That is my problem with girl's softball. Lake Fayetteville is not adequate for adult tournaments. This would be a great place for little girls. Asbell would be all soccer. We should find a new place for adult softball. We need to take into account all sports groups which includes youth and adults. There are almost 90 adult teams with tournaments just about every weekend. Could adult softball be moved to Crystal Springs? Clark: I don't know. Kimbrough:The corner of Industrial Park off the bypass would be a possible location. This would be good access to hotels, restaurants, and the mall. Driver: The property on Highway 265 is not very removed either. Edmonston:I don't have reservations about locating close to Springdale. People would probably rather drop kids off at Lake Fayetteville Highway 265 rather than Combs Park. Combs is more remote while the 265 property is closer to the mall, etc. Clark: Lake Fayetteville Highway 265 would lend itself to older boys or other. Do you think adult softball or Babe Ruth would be better in the Industrial Park? Either one, There is a big demand in little girl's softball. We could change all adult softball to the Lake complex and free up a field at Asbell by next year. By adding a field at. Lake Fayetteville complex you would duplicate concession and parking because you. cannot add a field beside the existing fields. We are talking about adding a field south of field three. Kimbrough:We are talking about fields that will not accommodate tournaments. The fields at the Lake cannot host tournament for adult softball and we want to add more adult fields there? Waite: A fourth field would be used there. I agree I want But if use the Waite: Kimbrough: Waite: Kimbrough: Clark: a four field pinwheel with 300 foot fences. adults move out someday then girl's could four field there. Wright: We need to take this and act on what we today. Bassett: Most things I have heard are comments on more fields for Walker Park and the safety of children and parking. I am trying for the money from the A & P Commission. The money is in escrow for a convention center. I am trying to get it out of escrow and use it for recreational purposes. If can do • Waite: Woody: Driver: Woody: Driver - Woody: Driver - Wright: Woody: 1Cimbrough: Bassett: Driver- Edmonston: PAGE 7 you could come to a consensus on priorities to give to A & P, it would really help. We need to know fields that are needed immediately. I see an immediate need for fields and parking at Walker Park. Tournaments are curtailed by facilities, especially in adult softball. A complex at Lake Fayetteville would really make a difference. Four field complexes are difficult. These fields are not just for teams but for hosting tournaments. Legally, we need to make a point that it is for tournaments. I think this is a legit reason, and I would like for it to touch the most people. In my opinion, fixing Walker would touch most families. If A & P favor this, would funds come at one time or matching funds over a four year period. Do you see them leaning toward children's sport over adult sport facilities. If adult facilities were built, youth would immediately expand. In the statutes, it does say this funding can be used for public recreation facilities. That is why I brought the idea up because it is in the statutes. I think the preference of the committee would be youth sports. Kimbrough had some good ideas about adult sports but it is a gut feel that they would prefer youth sports to be changed first. Funds could be open for discussion on how they would be given out. Would they see an adult complex as an alleviation for youth? I think a priority list will be helpful. Since we are not building a convention center, I think some money should go to recreation facilities. There is. no guarantee that the money would be released. You should talk to A & P members and people in the community about our needs and how this money could improve our community. Thank you for your support. It is really great. Can that money be used for maintenance for upgrading fields? Yes,it can. Some of the proposals we are discussing will benefit youth programs. You would immediately free up fields for girl's softball, etc. if you constructed a new adult complex. The A & P Commission meeting is June 13. Will you have tournaments that bring in tourists, and can you document revenues? My gut instinct is that youth is more important to the members of A & P. You get youth and their parents in youth sports. You have to have prime facilities to get tournaments. Bell: Bassett: Driver: Bassett: Driver: Bassett: Clark: Driver: Waite: Driver: PAGE 8 What about penny sales tax? There is a lot about parks on tomorrow's City Council meeting including sales tax. My biggest concern is streets but also parks and recreational facilities. We have fallen behind because of explosion of growth in Fayetteville. The Mayor's office is doing good spending money and getting us out of these lawsuits so we can catch up on our infrastructure. When is the earliest we would know from A & P? I don't now. If it were approved, I would assume it could be released immediately. We will fall short of having the necessary fields in five years if we don't find some funding. This tax is not just paid by tourists but by residents that use the facilities. Both facilities and budget committees need to meet before next meeting. Do you say all one sport is at one facility? Because there are so many soccer fields at one location, you don't have to say all soccer is at that location? No. We need to come to a consensus between Combs Park and Lake Fayetteville Highway 265, and also where we need to be in three years as far as locations. Kimbrough:Do the fields need to be all together? James: In the meeting the other night, the sports associations preferred complexes with their fields all in one place, but they also said they did not care as long as they have fields. Driver& We need to look at lighting. Rimbrough:Could we move the baseball lights to soccer fields? Edmonston:I don't think it will work to put baseball lights on soccer fields. Wright: What about costs for the fields? Edmonston:We have most of the figures we need. We have CIP meetings Wednesday and Thursday. I would like to have a meeting next week to discuss CIP's. Driver The meeting will be 4:30 next Wednesday, May 25 for prioritizing and coming up with dollar amounts. Edmonston:We can also review CIP's at this meeting. OTHER BUSINESS: Edmonston:The Wilson Park Pool will open on May 28, 1994. Also, there is. a letter in the agenda packet stating that the developers of Fieldstone wish to give money instead of a land dedication The meeting adjourned at 7:10 pm. Minutes Approved �� 1,1. �L ecretary • 99c/ 1%(\Po& 13,0tASIL 5� AAA t (IL rte.<t&K 1'd C 4� 0,, Ke /97 s cSAM VACS kA klAtitrS CA (, 6y9±9e-•-( am 11 ARMO6SAT PAte,-Fle<>i/iti Scc.ca-C Assen. p- _me 4 �nCCL as ;a.