HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-11-01 - Minutes•
PRAB
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 1, 1993
The meeting was called to order by Bill Waite at
326 of the City Administration Building.
5:30 pm in room
Members Present: Anderson, Driver, Kimbrough, Palmer, Savage,
Waite, Wright
McConnell
Clark, Cox, Crosson, Mayes, Zotti
Members Absent:
Staff Present:
Guests Present:
Botanical Garden - Donna Porter, Maryetta
Carroll, Diane Bostick Green Space - Jim
Lindsey Sports Complex - Len Edens
Media Present: Ron Wood, Rusty Garrett
BUSINESS:
I. MOTION:DRIVER/KIMBROUGH
The minutes from the October 4, 1993 PRAB meeting were
approved unanimously 5-0.
II. KEVIN CROSSON, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR: CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
Crosson: I apologize for the miscommunication on the
CIP projects. These are submitted by Division
Heads, evaluated by Department Heads, and
passed on to the Council. I will be doing
more in house engineering and paving projects.
The new paving machine will save 50 percent of
the cost of contractors. This will result in
getting a lot of parks jobs done that we have
had on hold.
What is the best time of year to ask for
paving help?
Get with me in the fall of the year before the
task is to be completed. Our main concerns
include Walker, Walker Expansion, Lewis
Avenue, and a sports complex.
Will this plan include or eliminate Walker
Expansion?
At the time of the Walker Expansion plans, we
did not have the Lewis property yet. We feel
changing Walker to a sports park is cost
prohibitive since we have the Lewis land. We
can redefine Walker.
Anderson:
Crosson:
Driver:
Crosson:
•
Anderson:
Crosson:
Waite:
Crosson:
Kimbrough
Crosson:
Wright:
Crosson:
Wright:
Waite:
Crosson:
Wright:
Crosson:
Driver:
Crosson:
Wright:
Crosson:
Anderson:
Clark:
Palmer:
PRAB Page 2
We need to look at the number of fields for
soccer.
I agree, we looked at six fields and a parking
lot.
The ideal situation would be to leave baseball
at Walker and move all soccer to Lewis, but we
cannot have that by next year. Baseball and
soccer both want it by 1995.
That is why we are considering the sports
complex generic. We did not specify where it
had to go. We have a committee formed for the
sports complex.
:It will be a chain reaction, contingent on
where we put the complex. I sit on the
committee with Len and we hope we can develop
the complex, but if not where are we. Things
are getting shifted around.
The money is allocated for some type of
development.
is your call
Did you come
If PRAB recommends Walker, that
to recommend.
up with these revised figures in
the CIP projects?
Yes, the budget staff and I did.
What about funding for the botanical garden.
The sports complex just got in the budget, we
need to be fair to both projects.
The garden has not been proposed yet. It is
still in preliminary stages.
The sports complex will also be funded by the
A & P Budget, not just the City's.
The Northwest Arkansas Mall will help with
money for the garden.
That is fine. I have no opposition. The PRAB
has been trying to keep up with the sports
growth for years. This complex will help.
Thank you for clarifying the projects. The
complex sounded like it was going to be in the
industrial park. What about accessibility for
Greathouse Park without the funding for the
bridge?
We thought it was too much money.
What about Davis Park?
We decided Davis needs more drainage. The
money budgeted for paving jobs only pays for
the actual asphalt.
Do these budget figures include money that can
be spent from Green Space?
No.
We need to let the Mayor know we like to know
of projects ahead of time.
Crosson:
Kimbrough:
Crosson:
Anderson:
Crosson:
PRAB Page 3
Bill Ackerman is head of the program for the
lake restoration and the portion of the White
River in the industrial park.
Parks is 6.5 percent of the total budget. I
see that the CIP percent is higher. Does this
mean our operating budget will go up
comparatively?
No, we took projects based on need.
1993 is almost over. How are we going to get
these projects done for this year?
We will roll those projects forward. We will
complete 1993 and 1994 projects in 1994. As
far as the botanical garden go, we budget
money for Lake Fayetteville South parking. We
may want to hold off on this.
•
III. GREEN SPACE WAIVER REOUEST: JIM LINDSEY
LAKESIDE VILLAGE APARTMENTS
Owner/Developer: Lindsey & Associates
Location: E of Gregg St., S of Appleby
Park Dist: NW
Acres: 19.17
Units: 252 units (21 apts)
\Land Ded: 5.04 acres
Money in Lieu: $45,360
Lindsey: Lakeside Village Apartments will eventually be
650 units on 50 acres. I would like to put a
nine whole novelty golf course. Five of the
holes will be like some of the greatest golf
courses on earth. This course would make a
visible amenity for people that live there.
There will be a wrought iron fence around it,
so the neighbors can't freely get in. There
will be a clubhouse and a place for the
manager of the apartments. We would have
minimal memberships and the rest would be
public. This course will cost more than the
green space money required. I could not deed
this property to you, if the course does not
go over. Memberships will account for about
150 people, probably senior citizens. If this
plan turns out not to be workable, I could
give you the money at that time. I wanted to
give you an alternative to building a million
dollar park, and provide a novelty golf
course. I don't care either way. If you
received the money, would it probably be spent
on Lewis? The clubhouse and the course will
•
Waite:
Lindsey:
Anderson:
Lindsey:
Palmer:
Lindsey:
Savage:
Lindsey:
Driver:
Lindsey:
Clark:
Lindsey:
Palmer:
Savage:
Lindsey:
Waite:
Lindsey:
PRAB Page 4
be the only things open to the public, and
they will close at night. This is the first
phase, and the Planning Commission supports
the plan for the golf course. It is a toss up
between paying fees and having my own course.
How much will you charge?
It will be a $10 green fee including the cart,
and $60 for members.
This is a neat idea. We have discussed a kind
of Gulley Park in this area, about thirteen
acres.
There is land where the plat says the trees
are to remain, and across the future Drake
Street. I cannot live with the stipulation
that says the Parks will take over the course
if you don't like the way it is run. I would
rather write a pro -rated check for what I owe
you if you are not happy with the golf course.
For example, if in three years you are not
happy, I will write you a $70,000 check.
The only problem with this is that the green
space will only be used by those playing golf.
This is a gray area.
I feel the City would be the loser without
this deal.
How much land?
About eight acres, and three or four on the
other side of the street.
I would be interested in a land dedication.
This is a very high density area.
I don't need an answer right now. If this
plan does not work, I can just pay the fees.
I would feel comfortable working with the
land. I am non -conforming to my plans.
Are you finishing Drake Street?
I am up to John Wayne. After this, I hope to
be forever waived on this.
If we cannot legally approve the golf course
plan, we will have to take money or land.
If we do not accept the golf course proposal,
will it be private?
Yes, it will be private. However, the
apartment residents would have the option to
use the course, and maybe fish in the pond.
We will have to talk to the City Attorney
again.
It would not be designed for everyone. Not
everyone likes to play golf, but not everyone
wants to picnic at Wilson Park either.
PRAB Page 5
Anderson: This land is not as attractive as the land
offered a few years ago. The facilities
committee can view this land. We will set a
meeting.
IV. SPORTS COMPLEX - LEN EDENS
The Juvenile Concerns Committee discussed ways to keep
teens out of trouble. That is how we came up with the
idea for this sports complex. I am not here asking for
money for this project. Here is the preliminary outline.
I. Purpose
a. 12-16 softball and baseball fields
b. 10 tennis courts
c. Tournament draw (Springdale raised one million)
d . Children can use during week
*Lake Fayetteville Softball fields could be used for
Little girls' softball. Move Adult softball to
the new complex. Some of the fields can have multi
use by different age groups
II. Location
a. Industrial Park (legalities?)
b. Combs Park (80 acres we currently own)
III. Funding
a. Advertising and Promotion (There is some
organized opposition to using A & P funding)
b. City
c. Community
d . Private
IV. Priorities
a. Decide on location
b. Determine park layout
c. Draw plans
d . Determine cost
e. Request funds
f . Build park
*An account would have to be established at a bank
administered by the City. They have been approached for
private funds.
Driver: Why is there A & P opposition?
Edens: There are people that want other projects
done. So if they get rid of this projects,
their project might get funded.
Anderson: What process did you go through to decide on
the number of fields?
Clark: We went by the Walker plan and baseball
requests.
Anderson:
Edens:
Palmer:
Clark:
Wright:
Edens:
Anderson:
Palmer:
Edens:
Palmer:
Waite:
Edens:
Kimbrough
Palmer:
Savage:
Clark:
Wright:
Anderson:
Edens:
Driver:
Edens:
Palmer:
Edens:
Palmer:
Waite:
Edens:
PRAB Page 6
What about the tennis courts?
Tennis courts are cheap. There is always a
wait at Wilson Park.
Was there a survey completed?
They looked at number of courts per
population.
How much funding would there be by A & P?
There is about $700,000 from the Hamburger
tax.
Part of Combs is in the flood plain and part
of it is used by the Model Airplane Club.
Do we definitely know we cannot use the
Industrial Park?
Yes, we are shy of lawsuits. I would not want
any doubts.
Have you contacted Springdale for any ideas
and lessons they have learned from building a
complex?
If you have to drop the fields from 16 to 12
because of the flood plain, that will hurt the
tournament draw. We would still have to use
Lake Fayetteville.
The baseball fields would be multi use.
:Can you turn Baberuth fields to softball?
No.
What impact will this have on Babe Ruth,
Walker, etc?
This complex would not affect Walker because
of the age group. Walker is different ages
that the fields proposed in the new complex.
Do we need a vote for this? Fields can be
discussed later.
Who is on the committee?
Carol Lindsey, LeAnn Donner, William
Kimbrough, Dale Clark, Jim Hawkins, Dave
Jorgenson, a representative from soccer, and a
few others.
Is there any provision for Walker?
No, not with the Lewis land. Soccer has the
Lewis land and Little League can add more at
Walker. I am more concerned with the other
fields.
What about Adult baseball?
Can they play on Babe Ruth fields?
Yes.
Are there any alternatives to Combs Park"'
Lake Fayetteville is too marshy, United Way is
building on the 265 property, and in this
location, it would be a Fayetteville/
Springdale Park.
Anderson:
Edens:
Anderson:
Edens:
Driver:
Waite:
Edens:
Kimbrough
Anderson:
Edens:
Rimbrough
Edens:
Waite:
Savage:
Clark:
Edens:
Anderson:
PRAB Page 7
I am concerned with the location. This area
floods a couple of times a year.
Restrooms and concession would be built up
above the flood plain. The mayor talked about
building a levy on the bank.
It seems we are missing the boat by leaving
soccer out of the complex. Moving soccer to
the Lewis property will put soccer right back
where we are. If we delete the Walker fields,
that will leave only six at Lewis which is not
any more than we have now. Soccer turned away
50 teams at the last tournament. Soccer
tournaments bring a lot of people into
Fayetteville.
I am not interested in soccer fields. We are
building six at Lewis. Parks will never catch
up on facilities.
I share your concern about the Walker fields
being redeveloped. We need less capital
outlay.
We still need a couple of small baseball
fields in 1995. This is not addressing that
issue.
Need to stick to original budget for Walker.
:It got cut $150,000.
I have a problem with people getting together
and spending lots of money without public
input.
We will have public input. We cannot go with
all recommendations.
:Committee should include PRAB to help
communicate to the community and to help
achieve what the PRAB is trying to achieve.
PRAB can meet with a recommendation before our
next committee meeting
everyone a field, but
tournaments there.
You can't satisfy all
There is no reason why soccer couldn't appeal
for A & P funding.
If girl's softball moves to Lake Fayetteville,
would there be extra fields at Asbell?
We would like to keep practice fields in the
neighborhood.
The PRAB can bring our committee a
recommendation, but it probably will not
change anything.
Don't get me wrong, you are doing great. I am
just worried about the location and if this
will meet the needs.
I would like to give
then we could not have
three in one location.
Palmer:
Driver*
Edens:
Kimbrough:
Edens:
Driver:
Palmer:
Clark:
Edens:
Waite:
Kimbrough:
Anderson:
Waite:
Anderson:
Palmer:
Driver:
Anderson:
Stephen M
PRAB Page 8
The PRAB is looking at needs for all sports.
You are looking at only baseball and softball
needs. The A & P will look at competitive
sports that bring people into Fayetteville.
What about the tennis courts?
We did not ask A & P for tennis courts, just
softball and baseball. Tennis courts are a
minor cost.
In the absence of A & P funding, is this
complex a viable concept?
As a councilman, NO. One street will wipe out
the City's construction fund in 1994. (Joyce)
We have to know how we will benefit the most
people for the dollar.
Wasn't there grant money for water and sewer?
Will A & P fund without PRAB's endorsement?
This is still in the development stage. Len
just came to get input.
I will let you know of the next committee
meeting.
Soccer can make a good case on tournament
play. Soccer could still try for
at Lewis with their tournament pul
I understood from Kevin, there is
in money budgeted for the complex
be used at Lewis or Walker, and
funding solely for the complex.
We need to all work together. If
A & P funds
1.
flexibility
It could
use A & P
we free up
Asbell, we could convert softball to soccer
there. Bambino could start expanding at
Walker.
Will Lewis only hold six fields?
Yes and parking.
There is a $200,000 piece of land at Walker
not being used for what we intended. I am
checking on legalities to selling it.
Why sell it? It does not have to be for
sports.
The senior center will be there.
iller:I would like to present a trail plan for
Walker at the next meeting. Sorry I have
missed the meetings all summer.
V. PARK MASTER PLAN PUBLIC MEETING
The public meeting will be on November 15 at 6:00 pm in
the City Council room 219. The plan will be available
for the public to view before the meeting.
VI. BOTANICAL
Anderson:
Driver:
Anderson:
Porter:
Anderson:
Porter:
Driver:
Porter:
Driver:
Porter:
Waite:
Porter:
Driver:
Porter:
Clark:
Porter:
Anderson:
Driver:
Porter:
Anderson:
Porter:
Anderson:
Driver:
PRAB Page 9
GARDEN COMMITTEE REPORT
The facilities committee and Donna Porter
viewed several sites, including Gregory Park,
Lake Fayetteville South, and Lake Fayetteville
North.
Did you narrow the sites to look at?
Donna gave us the selection criteria.
I got this from the feasibility study.
West of Highway 265 looked good. We just got
ideas.
I walked the east side of Highway 265 and the
northeast corner of the Environmental Study
area. I gave a grading sheet to the
Facilities Committee. East of Lake
Fayetteville South has a lot of potential, but
it is very wooded. The cleared area is
privately owned. This area has more potential
than Lake Fayetteville South, and has more
potential for expansion.
There is also no opposition from other groups
for this area.
We have officially formed the "Arkansas
Friends of Botanical Gardens."
When you mentioned climatic conditions, what
are you taking into consideration?
The wooded area is cooler. Also, depending on
which way the area is facing, the climate will
be different. Every area has a variety of
microclimates.
Would the private property need acquisition or
easement?
Possibly both.
Have you contacted the property owners?
Not yet. We wanted the PRAB approval.
The shore site offers what Lake Fayetteville
South has such as old growth and new growth.
There is 40 to 50 acres in this area of park,
and up to 20 acres of private property.
You need to contact the private property
owners first.
What if the property owners are not
interested, what then?
It might alter our plan. If PRAB recommends
this land, it might help us with the owners.
Is there any potential on the northeast side?
I think we would run into trouble with the
environmental study area. All you can hear is
the rumble of trucks. Who wants to sit in a
garden and listen to traffic? We might also
do something with the "pit."
What is the private property zoned?
What is the topology?
Porter:
Anderson:
Clark:
Anderson:
Clark:
Porter:
Clark:
Driver:
Waite:
Palmer:
Anderson:
Clark:
Palmer:
PRAB Page 10
Fairly level, sporadic vegetation.
Dale, do you think this is the best location?
Yes.
Are we allowed to pump water out of the lake?
Yes. One concern is will the trail curve so
people can still hike?
The trail would be more down in the woods in
this area. This location is better for
everyone and it will complement Lake
Fayetteville South.
We could even connect them.
How do we go about an endorsement for the
garden as opposed to saying the PRAB intends
to sign a contract.
We could not agree to a contract until next
October. We can just say we concur with their
plans to investigate this location.
Do we need a public meeting for this location?
Before we put too much energy into this, check
the feasibility of the area.
We need to tell the botanical garden group it
is okay to check out the area.
We have already endorsed the concept of Lake
Fayetteville south.
MOTION:ANDERSON/DRIVER
The PRAB gives the "Arkansas Friends of Botanical
Gardens" approval to continue the investigation of
locating and developing concept plans for the botanical
garden at the site located south of Lake Fayetteville and
east of Lake Fayetteville South and bring a complete
proposal back to the PRAB.
MOTION ENDED IN A TIE VOTE 3-3
•
•
Kimbrough:I have a problem with this entity developing
sites for this large structure. It needs to
be a more structured group.
How will they plan and structure if we don't
give them area to use?
Do you want them to have a certain number of
donations first?
I want a formal entity.
We asked them to come up with a plan, which
they did, and create an organization, which
they did. So do you mean, we are merely
taking Donna's word that there is a committee?
Yes, we are!
Is this group 3 or 300 people?
We are taking minimal steps here. This is a
chicken and egg sort of thing. Which one
comes first?
Waite:
Driver:
Kimbrough:
Driver-
Kimbrough:
Palmer:
Waite:
PRAB Page 11
Savage: My concern is making approval of a site
without a public meeting. There may not be
any opposition with this site, but there may
be.
Anderson: We just want them to be sure of private owners
ideas before going any further.
Kimbrough:We don't seem to have an entity with financing.
Driver: Do you have a list of members?
Diane Bostick: Yes. We have a bank account, and are
registering with the State of Arkansas. We
have 20 to 30 members who have paid dues. We
haven't shown the PRAB most of the internal
structure of the group.
Driver: How would you proceed on this without our
approval?
PRAB approval is an
want your support.
Are the members that
botanical garden?
This is a young entity.
We have had people request things before they
had created a Board. Some of these things
were approved, too.
Kimbrough:I could be satisfied as long as we don't
specify location.
I agree.
That is what we did with Lake Fayetteville
South, and we had a public meeting. We looked
at other sites.
Clark: Donna just needs to go ahead and investigate
the area.
Kimbrough:I just did not want a site identified in the
motion.
Driver. Your colored outline looks wonderful.
Porter:
Waite:
Savage:
Waite:
important part, and we
voted nay against
the
Palmer:
Porter:
VII. GREEN SPACE PLATS
THE MEWS
Owner/Developer: Rob Merry -ship
Location: Corner of Zion and Old Missouri
Park District: NE
Acres: 8.45
Units: 50 units (25 duplexes)
Land Dedication: 1 acres
Money in Lieu: $9,000
MOTION:DRIVER/SAVAGE
The PRAB recommends to the Planning Commission to accept
money, $9,000, in lieu of land for the green space
requirement for The Mews.
MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 6-0
PRAB Page 12
LYNN -LEIGH
Owner/Developer: Jim Wheeler
Location: S of 112, W Deane Solomon
Park District: NW
Acres: 8.51
Single Family Units: 8
Land Dedication: .2 acres
Money in Lieu: $1,800
MOTION:SAVAGE/ANDERSON
The PRAB recommends to the Planning Commission to accept
money, $1,800, in lieu of land for the' green space
requirement for Lynn -Leigh.
MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 6-0
CANDLELIGHT PLACE
Owner/Developer: Tom Boyse and Earl Russell
Location: NE section of Sycamore and Gregg
Park District: NW
Acres: 3.80
Units: 56 multi -family
Land Dedication: 1.12 acres
Money in Lieu: $10,080
MOTION:DRIVER/SAVAGE
The PRAB recommends to the Planning Commission to accept
money, $10,080, in lieu of land for the green space
requirement for Candlelight Place.
MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 6-0
VIII. SWEETSER•S CREEK TRAIL LAND REPORT
This item was withdrawn by Larry Palmer.
IX. ADVERTISING FOR PARKS
PALMER/SAVAGE
PRAB recommends to table until the January meeting.
MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY 6-0.
MOTION: PALNER/RIMBROUGH
Meeting adjourned at 8:40 pm.
Minutes Approved:
Secretary
#16/PRAB1193
